Dr. Robert L. Millet: 30:00 Yeah. I’d love to go out.

John Bytheway: 30:02 Be patient [crosstalk 00:30:03].

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 30:03 The Lord says you need to have patience. You’re going to have afflictions. You need to have patience and deal with it.

Hank Smith: 30:09 I want to do one other thing. I read a book… one of your books about being a man of God and look in verse nine, section 31, verse 90, he says, “Govern your house in meekness.” Now this is specifically to Thomas B. Marsh, but let’s talk about the idea of the righteous father. Just for a minute. I know you have plenty to say on this. I’m a young father. I’ve got teenagers, I’ve got little ones in the house. What does it look like in your mind to govern my house in meekness?

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 30:46 Meekness is an interesting virtue. Almost always, people equate it with humility. Well, they’re certainly close, but they’re not exactly the same. I read a book years ago written by, I think he was the institute director at a University of Utah and he wrote a book on the beatitudes. And under meekness, he said, meekness is poise under provocation. Now, think of Jesus before Annas and Caiaphas. Think of Jesus before Pilate and further, Herod. And so poise under provocation, I think has to do with… That’s an illustration. I know that I’ll just confess that in our early years of marriage, I would lose my temper sometimes. And I would say things to the children. I didn’t cast them or curse them, but I would be unkind, I think. And I grieved over that until frankly, the Lord forgave, me and I was sort of changed in this. And that is, there’s just no place, really, for a person who is serious about spiritual things, a father or a mother, who’s constantly exploding on the family members. We’ve got to learn to get control. Meekness is poise under provocation.

John Bytheway: 32:07 Hank, there was an article in the new era by S. Michael Wilcox about the beatitudes as well. I don’t know if that’s who you’re referring to. He gave this great illustration about a car crusher that would compress a car down to a pile of metal. He said that after they demonstrated this incredibly powerful machine, the man doing the demonstration, asked somebody for their watch and nobody wanted to give them this watch. He’s like, “Trust me,” and they measured the watch and this machine was very strong, but apparently very precise. And it came rushing down and stopped a millimeter from smashing the crystal of the watch and same thing on the sides. Brother Wilcox doesn’t say who it was. But he says the church leader turned and said, “We have just seen the greatest demonstration of meekness I have seen. Meekness is great power under complete control.” And that sounds very much like poison under provocation. Kind of the same thing. It was a topic that we spent some time here in the, by the way house, because my son, Andrew said, “Dad, the church is trying to turn us all into a bunch of meek little church boys. And so, I punched him in the face. No I didn’t. No, I’m not. I don’t think when we looked up the dictionary. com definition of meekness, it was timid, spiritless, tame. I don’t see Jesus that way. I don’t see captain [Merona 00:33:38] that way.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 33:39 I had a teacher in college. Somehow the word meekness come up and the teacher said… the professor said, “There is no way in this world I want any of my children to be meek. People will step all over you.” Well, to me, that’s silly. There’s nothing. There’s nothing weak about Jesus. Nothing weak about Joseph Smith. He was meek as well.

Hank Smith: 34:00 I love that. Do you remember that story we heard the other day, John, about the man who was it? It was Abner Cole, who was trying to print the book of Mormon without the copyright. And he writes to fight Joseph Smith. He says, “Take your coat off Smith. Let’s go settle this outside.” What do you say? “Mr. Cole. It is cold. Put your coat back on and stop printing my book.”

John Bytheway: 34:22 And he did. Yeah.

Hank Smith: 34:24 He did. Should we move forward into 32, 33. Have we-

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 34:28 There’s not much on 32 we haven’t covered. It’s basically about the Lamanite Mission.

Hank Smith: 34:32 By the way, speaking of this Lamanite Mission, let’s make sure everybody knows what they’re being asked to do here. Do they know where they’re going to go?

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 34:42 I think they must have some idea. They go to one group of native Americans. The Cattaraugus Indians, then later, a group of them goes across the Missouri river to a group of Indians. And I think [Pearly 00:34:58] probably gives us more detail in his autobiography than anyone where he just says were well-received, they identified with the God about which we were speaking, and so forth. No converts that I know of.

Hank Smith: 35:11 And they’re out there just a day or two right, across the Missouri.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 35:14 It’s a bit like Zion’s camp. The great thing that came out of Zion’s camp wasn’t we’re going to lift the difficulties for the saints. The great thing is the men that came through that, became the leaders of the church. The 70 and the apostles. And I think the same way here, what really comes out of that Lamanite Mission is the discovery of people over there in Ohio who are just ready for the gospel.

Hank Smith: 35:40 Yeah. I think as we move forward in this, we’re going to find that one of the strategies of the Lord is to command us to do something. We think we know why, and he’s got a completely different idea in mind that we did not foresee. We did not see coming.

John Bytheway: 35:58 Well, as we talked about this, the revelation came because some of the men desire to go there. And so, then the Lord says, “Yeah, go ahead.” But not realizing what’s going to happen in Ohio and who they’re going to see. We might say by the way.

Hank Smith: 36:17 Yeah. Very good.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 36:18 That’s very impressive, John. Strange that you would come up with that.

John Bytheway: 36:26 I have them all marked in my scriptures. They’re all marked.

Hank Smith: 36:31 Yeah. I think the major victories that are going to come out of this are not necessarily converts, like you said, Bob, across the Missouri, but the Kirtland stop over. And also the look at Independence. Our first… They’re going to step into Independence, Missouri, not knowing that this is going to be a future home for them.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 36:51 Right.

Hank Smith: 36:52 I don’t think we can, overstate how important it is that Parley P Pratt had met these Kirtland Campbell lights and the other term you used these-

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 37:06 Reform baptist.

Hank Smith: 37:07 Reform baptist. That he had known them before then met Joseph Smith. Then read the book of Mormon. Then been baptized, and then returns back to them. I don’t think we can over emphasize how important Parley P Pratt is and that little connection to what happens in the future.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 37:25 That’s what I was referring to when I said, this divine orchestration that’s taking place behind the scenes that no one can see at the time, but you look back on it and you marvel at God’s wisdom.

Hank Smith: 37:36 Yeah. Our friend, Carl Anderson, he likes to say the church was restored in Kirtland.

John Bytheway: 37:43 That’s right.

Hank Smith: 37:43 It was born in New York, but it was restored in Kirtland. He is a big advocate for Kirtland, Ohio. And I am too

John Bytheway: 37:53 Well. And I like what brother Millet said about getting people in the same place. I remember when I was a student at BYU, elder Maxwell came and spoke in the Marriott center for some sort of a steak, elders quorum training, whatever. I was, I think in an elders quorum presidency in the Riviera. And he said something. I wrote it down as fast as I could. I’ve never seen it published, but as accurate as I remember, he said that within the macro plan of salvation are… The micro plan of salvation is composed of micro plans. And that God governs the intersections of our lives and the people that we meet, and when we meet them. And then very Maxwell, he said, “They are all watched over by our heavenly father and his remarkable son who said in the acme of understatement, I am able to do my work”

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 38:42 That’s beautiful.

John Bytheway: 38:43 And I love that idea that there’s intersections, and he’s watching over him. We may not even be aware of it.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 38:49 Over the years that I was at BYU. A number of times I’d have somebody from the business school would come and want to interview me about my goal setting programs. I haven’t been a big goal setter during my life. I mean, I have a goal of the eternal life for my family and me. And looking back, I realized that some of the most important things in my life that happened, happened with an impulse. I’m sitting. I’m a seminary teacher. I’m sitting there thinking about the lesson I’m about to go give. And suddenly the impression comes, you need to get into Institute and end up Tallahassee, Florida. I meet people in Tallahassee, Florida who’s impact on me, I can’t measure the kind of training, the kind of leadership they had, the power. I’m just a different person. And throughout my life, I just find again and again, a door opens. And unless it looks like an evil thing to do, I’ve generally speaking, taken the door. I have no regrets at all and looking back. I realized now those little impulses were small promptings.

Hank Smith: 40:00 Just this last year, I did not have time for a podcast. John, you didn’t have time for a podcast. This stumbled into our lap with our good friend, Steve Sorenson, and look what’s happened. If I would have said, “No. I’ve got other goals. I’ve got other plans.” I think I would be missing out. So, I’m really impressed by that.

John Bytheway: 40:20 I’m writing this down because that’s so true. It was an impulse. I didn’t have a goal. I’ve run into brother Millet. He says, “Get into this program.” I didn’t have a goal. That’s a really interesting point.

Hank Smith: 40:34 I was going to bring up a statement from president Benson, who said, “Those who turn their lives over to God will find he can make a lot more out of their lives than they can.” And one of those things that we’ve been talking about here, definitely for the prophet and for all of these people involved, that he would raise up friends.

John Bytheway: 40:47 Raise up friends and pour out peace and that… Yeah. And look at all these people getting them in the same place.

Hank Smith: 40:54 Yeah. Look at all these people are being raised up, not just for the prophet, but for themselves too.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 40:58 I’m sure you guys faced the same situation that I do. But because I’m more aged than you. I’m more prone to look back on my life. And when I’m saying prayers especially, look back on my life and there comes to mind key people whose testimonies changed me. Whose whose way of living the gospel made me different than what I was. I mean, those people that were there that were so crucial a Sunday school teacher that I had when I was 12, a priest advisor who changed my life.

Hank Smith: 41:31 Is there anything in section 33 that we need to look at specifically?

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 41:35 Yes, of course there is.

John Bytheway: 41:37 I have a comment on verse one. And then we got to do the open your mouths thing that brother Millet mentioned already.

Hank Smith: 41:44 Do we know anything about these two men? Ezra Thayre.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 41:47 We know more about Ezra Thayre than we know about Northrop suite. Ezra Thayre born about 1791, I think it was. So he’s what, nine… 14 years?

Hank Smith: 41:58 He’s 14 years older than prophet.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 42:00 Some of Ezra’s work men began to tell them about Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon. And he angrily just rejected the idea. He knew the Smiths, both the father and Joseph, and the brothers because they’d work for him. And he definitely knew they were not educated men. But so he just said, “I can’t see what could come of that.” And he became upset when different members of his family began to become interested. Ezra’s brother came to visit from Auburn, New York and, about 40 miles to the East. And he insisted that Ezra go with him to hear the Smith’s, Hiram and Joseph preach. The two brothers traveled about 12 miles to the Smith farm in Manchester. They arrive. They discover this large crowd at the Smith home and Hiram preaches. And as he preaches, Ezra’s resistance to listening to the message just melted away. Here’s the way he described it. I wrote this down. Every word touched me to the end most soul, he said. After the sermon Hiram approached Ezra with a copy of the book of Mormon. Ezra opened the book and immediately sensed, it was true. I have a dear friend that I say was trained as a Southern Baptist pastor. Out of the blue and out of nowhere, he’s going along about his business as a pastor preaching. When he and his wife independent of one another, get a feeling they should move to Missouri. Where to? Well, they feel like they should go to Independence. They don’t know anything about Independence, but they go there. They get there and he’s there one day when his neighbor knocks on his door and gives to him a copy of the book of Mormon. The neighbor left. He said, “I picked up the copy of the book of Mormon. I opened it and I read the first verse, and the spirit bore witness to me that this was true.” I mean, most people have to work a little harder than that. He had a witness when you’d read the first verse. He felt the power of the book. And so Ezra feels that power. He’s baptized in October of 1830 by Parley P Pratt. The fourth conference of the church which would have been in June of ’31. He’s ordained a high priest. So he marches in Zion’s camp, proved to be a real strength to the church. Sadly, after the martyrdom of Hiram and Joseph, he didn’t follow the saints West. Ended up finally in 1860, joining with the reorganization. The reorganized church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. Ezra Thayre, Northrop suite, we know not very much at all. Born in 1802. So he’s three years younger than Joseph. Born in New York. Joined the church there. He apostatizes in 1831.

Hank Smith: 44:53 That’s quick-

John Bytheway: 44:55 Very soon.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 44:55 Here’s a point I want to make too. These are two people that aren’t exactly among the great known…

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 45:00 … aren’t exactly among the great known powerful leaders of the church. But how interesting it is that so many wonderful and powerful things are in this section. It reminds me of the Book of Mormon, think about where some of the great discourses are? They’re given to people either in serious sin or in apostasy, right?

John Bytheway: 45:21 Cory Hansen.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 45:22 Abinadi talking to the Priests of Noah, Alma talking to [Ezra’s 00:45:25] son. Here you have-

John Bytheway: 45:27 He got some great stuff.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 45:29 … powerful things being said in here in this section to two men that most of the saints have never heard of.

Hank Smith: 45:37 I love that. I think that can tell us a little bit about the character of the Lord because he might just say, “Well, these two, they’re not going to stick around for the long haul. So, let me talk to somebody who’s going to be around for a while.” In fact, let me ask you, before we get into this section, what do I do when my children… because I know my children are going to ask, how come so many of these people joined up and then eventually left like the Whitmers and Ezra Thayer and Northrop Sweet. I don’t want to come across as, “Well, let’s start judging people by how long they stayed in the church.” How I do I-

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 46:15 Let’s take Ezra Thayer, for example, when does he leave? When Joseph dies. President Harold B. Lee said he had served a mission in the Western States Mission, and he said, “We met as a group of missionaries at the Carthage Jail.” His President turned to them and said, “When Joseph Smith died, many of the saints died with him.” Then he said, “And so it has been through the years, people unable to shift their allegiance to a new leader.” Albeit Joseph Fielding Smith isn’t like David O. McKay. Albeit Thomas Monson doesn’t do things the same way Gordon Hinckley did. That important ability to shift allegiance was an issue. Let’s take David Whitmer. David Whitmer was an amazing man, and boy, think of how foundational he was to the early church.

Hank Smith: 47:11 Yeah, the whole family, right?

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 47:12 And yet look what happens, he gets… Richard Anderson, Richard L. Anderson, when he wrote about the witnesses, he describes David this way, he said, “So very often, and it certainly was the case with David, pride was the big issue. David, for example, didn’t want the church to change. He liked it back when he first came into it. He was ordained a high priest, but he didn’t think you should have the office of high priest.” He couldn’t move with the church, he couldn’t adjust. In other words, one thing about a true and living church, things that are living move, things that are living change, and some people just could never make the change.

Hank Smith: 47:50 That’s good, I like that. Let’s look at these individuals and what happened? We’ll leave their judgment between them and the Lord, we’ll just look at what happened and maybe see what we can learn from each of these individuals. because a lot of them, Thomas B. Marsh, is going to be another one who-

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 47:50 Of course.

Hank Smith: 48:06 … is going to struggle later with the church.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 48:10 With pride.

Hank Smith: 48:10 Ziba Peterson, yeah, Ziba Peterson, same way. They’re all going to struggle. You know what, that gives me hope that I’m going to struggle too and the Lord here he is speaking to these men.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 48:24 Well, look at verses three and four, there’s what he states all the time, the Lord, “The field is already to harvest. It is the Eleventh Hour.” That’s the only place I can think of in the Doctrine and Covenants where that expression is used, “It is the Eleventh Hour and the last time that I shall call laborers into my vineyard,” and that just smacks of the language of Jacob 5, doesn’t it? When the Lord of the vineyard says to his coworker, “It’s the last time we’ll call laborers into the vineyard. My vineyard has become corrupted everywhere. There is none that doeth good, save it be few. They are in many instances because of priest crafts all having corrupt minds. Same language as the Book of Mormon language.

Hank Smith: 49:03 Right, and he’s also bringing in the Eleventh Hour, the parable of laborers in the vineyard.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 49:08 That’s correct.

John Bytheway: 49:10 I, actually, wrote in my margin next to verse three laborers in the vineyard and next to verse four, Zenos allegory. I’ve heard Brother Millet lecture on this amazing thing that Jesus did towards the end of his time with the righteous in the new world and said he expounded all the scriptures in one. I thought, “Boy, I’d like to have a ticket to that.” But look how he’s putting these different revelation togethers right there.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 49:36 It’s showing how all of the revelations bear a united witness of the Christ, and they aren’t to be… I don’t think they should be taught independent of one another. I had an occasion once where, when I was Bishop years ago, where a woman in our ward was our gospel doctrine teacher and she was amazing. She was really an excellent teacher. I slipped into the back of the chapel to listen to her one day, and we were studying the Old Testament, and the lesson that day was on Abraham. She taught a great lesson, and a number of questions were asked. After the lesson, I went down and talked to her and told her I really enjoyed it. It was well done. I said, “I have a question for you.” She said, “What?” I said, “A number of the questions that were asked, you could have answered by referring to the book of Abraham and the Pearl of Great Price.” She said, “Bishop, we’re not studying the Pearl of Great Price. We’re studying the Old Testament.” I said, “No, no you’re studying the gospel, and anything that sheds light on this verse or that passage, we draw upon.” I think, John, that’s what you’re talking about, to expound all the scriptures in one is to take occasion where you bring everything together. One other experience and I’ll shut up, I promise.

Hank Smith: 50:47 Please don’t.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 50:50 It was the first of a semester, I was teaching New Testament. I think it may have been the first or the second day of class, maybe the second day of class. I remember walking over to the Martin Building thinking about the lesson. Our lesson that day was John 1:1-18, 19 verses. Thinking about it, I get there, and as I’m walking back after the class, I thought to myself, “What did we just do? Well, we read and discussed John 1:1-18. We read and discussed the Joseph Smith translation of John 1:1-18. We read section 93, verses 12-20 and talked about that in John’s record.” I began, “Oh, and we read statements from Orson Pratt, John Taylor and Bruce R. McConkie stating their belief that John the Beloved had drawn upon the record of John the Baptist.” It hit me that probably, in a poor way, but in a way we had expounded all the scriptures in one, you know what I’m saying?

Hank Smith: 51:52 Yeah, absolutely, when the Lord comments on these things and he brings them back in, there’s so much to learn. When he says it is the Eleventh Hour, I can go to Matthew 20 and I can learn that there’s a way to dive deep into that verse for a minute. Then I come out, this is the last time I call the laborers in my vineyard. Then I go to Jacob 5 and say, “Well, what does he mean by that?” I can go study Jacob 5. The Lord it seems likes scripture. It seems that he likes scripture. Anything else?

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 52:22 By the way, one of the reasons why the leaders of the church wants so desperately for us to become more conversant with them. What a blessing for a child who says, “Mom, I need to talk to you, mom. I have a problem.” For that mom to be able to say, “Boy, I know what you’re talking about.” And to either share personal experience or to say, “You know what, it reminds me of a scripture that I’ve always loved, dah, dah, dah.” Oh, also in the Book of Mormon, the same thing. In quiet ways, we can expound the scriptures.

Hank Smith: 52:52 That’s beautiful. I noticed three times in three verses, “Open your mouth,” verse eight, “and it will be filled.” Verse nine, ” Open your mouth and spare not.” Verse 10, “Open your mouths and they shall be filled. Cry a repentance.” The Lord seems to be saying, “Don’t be shy about your message.”

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 53:11 Yes, yes.

John Bytheway: 53:13 When I went to the MTC, the MTC President was Elder Joe J. Christensen, and our very first meeting, we got in one of those big auditoriums and he read Section 33. He read those three verses of the three times in a row, open your mouth, I never forgot that. That was the first fireside we had in the MTC.

Hank Smith: 53:39 Then he quotes John the Baptist, who is quoting Isaiah, all of these scriptural layers, “Repent and prepare ye the way of the Lord and make his path straight for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” That is definitely John the Baptist language.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 53:54 One of the things I love about this section, starting in verse 11, it is one of the finest explanations of what the gospel is, “Notice, repent and be baptized every one of you for a remission of your sins. Be baptized even by water and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. Behold verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel. And remember that they shall have faith in me, or they shall in no wise be saved, and upon this rock, I’ll build my church.” It occurs to me that, in scripture, the Lord defines the gospel in a couple of ways, slightly different. In both the Book of Mormon and in the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord defines the gospel as the atonement, the saviors atoning sacrifice. But there are other times when he defines the gospel as how we take advantage of that atonement. How we appropriate the atonement and the answer is through faith, repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost. So you get this wonderful discussion, verse 14, “You shall remember the church articles and covenants to keep them.” Well, the church articles and covenants, where what you and I would know as sections 20 and 22. Many of the missionaries would go out and preach from section. But we have a sections 20 and 22. Notice verse 15, “Who so having faith, you shall confirm in my church by the laying on of hands,” and get this, “I will bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost upon them.” There it is. You lay your hands on their head, but I’m going to give them the Holy Ghost.

Hank Smith: 55:29 Right, I will do it. That’s interesting. It’s very 3 Nephi, 3 Nephi 27-

John Bytheway: 55:34 Yeah, the rock.

Hank Smith: 55:35 … 3 Nephi 31, repent, baptism. I’ve always said, as we read the Book of Mormon, here is the day of days, 3 Nephi 11, the savior comes. He shows them who he is. They come up and one by one touch his hands and his feet, and he is going to give a sermon. He talks about faith and repentance and baptism and the Holy Ghost.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 55:55 For that matter, think about what he did, what the savior did, in Joseph F. Smith’s vision of the Redemption of the Dead. Here you have people there, the faithful from days gone by and the savior preaches faith, repentance, baptism, Holy Ghost.

John Bytheway: 56:11 Do you know what I love about it is that there are so many gospel topics that are so fun and so interesting, and so we have this phrase, “But what are the first principles?” I always make my note to Article of Faith 4 when I see stuff like verse 11 or the Doctrine of Christ 2 Nephi 31. I mean, here there’s so many, but what are the most important? What are the first principles? Oh, okay, faith in Christ, repentance, baptism by immersion for the mission of sins. I told Hank on an earlier podcast that someone had asked me, “You’ve been teaching Book of Mormon how many years, what has stood out to you?” I told them, “I think it’s how often first principles show up, faith in Christ and repentance.” Sometimes adding the ordinances.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 57:04 Think about this 1 Corinthians 15, that great chapter on the resurrection. The opening verses gives to us the first principles and ordinances. But the way the Lord speaks about him, he says, “I’ve delivered unto you, first of all, dah, dah, dah.” Other translations render that this way, “I’ve delivered unto you that which is a first importance.

John Bytheway: 57:29 Oh, man.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 57:29 That the savior died, was buried, rose again the third day, ascended into heaven. You see what I’m saying? That, which is a first importance.

Hank Smith: 57:40 Yeah, this section I’ve never noticed before as we’re looking at it, this is really a coming together of scripture because you’ve got him mentioning the Eleventh Hour workers. He’s talking about Jacob 5, the laborers in the vineyard. Here at the end, he mentions the Parable of the Ten Virgins. You have your lamps trimmed and burning. You’ve got the articles and covenants that he mentions, Doctrine and Covenants Section 20. So this really is a, how did you describe it [inaudible 00:58:08], all things together in one type section of the Doctrine and Covenants where the Lord really is saying, “Look, all of this comes together into one message, which is go preach repentance. Open your mouth and tell them that the Kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

John Bytheway: 58:27 To people that didn’t last that long, but all of us are getting the benefit of what’s taught here.

Dr. Robert L. Millet: 58:35 Right.

John Bytheway: 58:38 Please join us for part two of this podcast.