Hank Smith:                      00:00:00             Coming up in this episode on followHIM.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:00:03             Who comes and joins him, but none other than the Son of Man, meaning Son of Man of Holiness, Jesus Christ. This is the great Council meeting, I guess you might say at Adam-ondi-Ahman before the Lord’s final and last great appearing in the future. This was highly motivating to the Latter-Day Saints to think Missouri is a land of promise and this is where the final events of this dispensation will take place.

Hank Smith:                      00:00:36             Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of followHIM. My name is Hank Smith. I’m your host. I’m here with my co-host John Bytheway, who is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

John Bytheway:               00:00:51             Yes, I am. I know who I am. I know God’s plan. I could hear the music when you said that Hank.

Hank Smith:                      00:00:57             Yeah. That’s so great. John. I’m sure you know this, but section 115 of the Doctrine & Covenants, the Lord says, for thus shall my church be called in the last days, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I love it. John we are joined today by our good friend, Dr. Alex Baugh. Alex, welcome back to followHIM.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:01:20             Thank you so much. I’ve been waiting four years to come back.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:24             We have been waiting four years for you.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:01:29             This is wonderful. Everyone appreciates what you do. It’s wonderful.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:33             Well, we love you Alex. In fact, Alex’s name, how many times do you think it’s been brought up? Just this year, John? I think maybe almost every episode.

John Bytheway:               00:01:44             Good point. Yeah.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:45             Whenever we’re making a point, you know, Alex says, that makes it authoritative. If Alex told us. Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:01:52             In fact, we don’t even need the last name. We just say Alex and everybody knows.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:56             Everybody knows who we’re talking about. Yeah. For those of you who are new this year and you’re thinking, I’ve heard this name many times, yes, he is finally here. The man, the myth, the legend. We are in sections 115 through 120, Far West Missouri. Tell me what comes to mind.

John Bytheway:               00:02:13             So many things when you go to Far West now and you hear that it was once thriving, then you look at it now, that’s sobering. You’re like, where did everybody go? One of the reasons I was excited to have Alex on today was we have somebody that is a trusted scholar who probably knows more than anybody on the planet about Adam-ondi-Ahman. I’m really excited to have Alex here today to maybe help us understand that place a little bit. That’s one of the things I’m looking forward to, but I just know we have the Missouri expert here today.

Hank Smith:                      00:02:50             Yeah.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:02:52             Well thank you.

John Bytheway:               00:02:53             This last summer I was at Adam-ondi-Ahman and I met a service missionary who takes care of the grounds there that does such a beautiful job and and he said to me, that their area authority told them, listen, if you haven’t heard a new rumor by 10:00 AM start one. So I know there’s just a lot of rumors about that place, and so I am glad we get to address some of those.

Hank Smith:                      00:03:16             Yeah, that’s great. When you talk about no one on the planet, I wonder if it’s even off the planet if there’s anyone who knows more, right. I think if the Lord gets a question about Adam-ondi-Ahman, he might be like, where’s Alex? Go ask Alex. Even Adam himself might say, Alex, what are we supposed to do here? Alex, what are we looking forward to today? We had you on four years ago, for sections 121 through 123. We’re basically getting a prequel for what you did for us then.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:03:54             Yeah, today there’s seven revelations that came from Far West. You’ve covered the first two. We also have as you’ve mentioned, an Adam-ondi-Ahman revelation, the shortest revelation in the Doctrine & Covenants, but there’s a lot behind it, and there’s the Liberty jail revelation, so there’s seven Far West, one Adam-ondi-Ahman, three Liberty Jail. This is kind of the Northern Missouri period. We’ve been in Missouri for a long time in the sense that the first missionaries get there in 1831, Joseph goes down, dedicates the land of Zion. We have a gathering of about 1200 saints by 1833 to Jackson County. Then unfortunately, the antagonists there in Jackson County said, you’re not welcome, and there was a, what we call the forced expulsion from Jackson County. Most of them went into Clay County, which will be the headquarters of the church in the west in Missouri for again, about another three years, basically 1834, 35, 36. But in the meantime, we’ve hired some pretty good attorneys to help us. One of them is my hero, Alexander Doniphan. I’d like to think my parents named me after him but I don’t think they knew who he was.

Hank Smith:                      00:05:16             Unknowingly, unknowingly.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:05:18             Unknowingly. There is good evidence by the way that Joseph named one of his sons, Alexander Hale Smith after Doniphan. He’s born in Far West on June 2nd, 1838. Doniphan is the man who is going to secure through the legislature the creation of Caldwell County for the Mormons because by 1836, even the Clay County citizens are getting a little bit anxious going, we allowed you to come here, but we didn’t want you here forever. Doniphan will, he gets elected to the state legislature. He is one of our four attorneys who we hired in problems associated with the expulsion. Let’s see if we can get a county for you. He’s quite helpful. In the end, of course, it didn’t work out. He ends up having to create two counties, one to the north called Davies and we’ll briefly talk about that in connection with Adam-ondi-Ahman. But this Caldwell County was supposed to be for the Latter-day Saints, reserved for them. So those who do come will stay there. But you, you understand this is a free country. You can go anywhere you want. Some of the Latter-day Saints are gonna go up into Davies County and other places that cause some angst among the locals. It will result in eventually the expulsion order by Boggs in 1838. Just a quick overview there, but meanwhile we’ll focus on these Far West revelations.

Hank Smith:                      00:06:46             I think John, you know this well, how much I admire Alex Baugh in multiple ways, not just as a scholar, but as a friend. As a disciple. He’ll be the first to say that I’m wrong about this, but I don’t know if they come any more dedicated to the church, to the Lord than Alex. Do you have any information on him John? Did you uncover anything that we all need to know?

John Bytheway:               00:07:13             We have a bio. I think what you just said, Hank is probably better than what I could read. As I was getting ready to record I remember you telling our audience about a personal trial in your life and in your family and how Alex came out of his way to come and see you, which just says volumes about

Hank Smith:                      00:07:33             Multiple times, John. Multiple times.

John Bytheway:               00:07:35             Yeah, but let me tell you about Dr. Alexander Baugh is a professor, former chair of church history, and doctrine at BYU. He’s been full-time on the faculty since 95, so that’s 30 years. I got married in 95, so we’re having our 30 year anniversary pretty soon here. Received a bachelor’s from Utah State, Master’s and PhD from BYU. He specializes this is what we’ve been saying in researching and writing about the Missouri period of early church history. He’s been an author, editor, co-editor of 12 books, including three volumes of the document series of the Joseph Smith Papers. That’s volumes four, five, and six.

                                           00:08:14             Published more than 80 historical journal articles, essays and book chapters. It’s a few every month it sounds like. We wanted to mention Hank, there’s a chapter he wrote recently called The History and Doctrine of Adam-ondi-Ahman. The Religious Study Center, you’ll hear us refer to the RSC sometimes, has a new book called Hear the Voice of the Lord, Essays on the Doctrine and Covenants, and I love it when this happens ’cause it is current scholarship. We have some great scholars. I’m really anxious to read that because as I said before, Adam-ondi-Ahman, there’s very few written about it. What’d you say, Alex? It was the shortest section in the Doctrine & Covenants that

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:08:59             30 words

John Bytheway:               00:09:00             brings up the name.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:09:02             But there’s a lot behind it. Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:09:05             Yeah. Alex is gonna fill us in on that. We’re glad to have you. Welcome.

Hank Smith:                      00:09:11             John, before I jump into the Come, Follow Me manual here, I have to say there are people that you cross paths with and it changes you as a person. Alex is one of those for me. I’ve spent time with him at work. I’ve spent time with him on the road. I’ve been with him at some of these sacred sites. I’ve heard from his academic side where he knows so much, but he cares about these people in history. Even those who were fighting against the Saints, to him, they were real people. They’re not characters. They’re not look at these evil mobsters. They have their own feelings that they’re dealing with. He’s not gonna excuse their behavior, but he’s not gonna treat them as if they’re like a movie character, all bad. I’ve appreciated that and then also, he loves the Saints. Sometimes I think Alex lives in the 1830s. I want him to come and join us here in in 2025, but he… Alex, when did you first get interested in Latter-day Saint History, specifically Missouri?

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:10:20             Well, that’s a great question. I was up at Utah State University. I was actively involved in the institute program, wanted to be a seminary teacher, which came to fruition. I was in a musical group called Sounds of Zion. My wife Susan was the accompanist, so that’s where we met.

Hank Smith:                      00:10:41             Wow.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:10:42             Our director, this Brother Bradley, took us to Romania, Bulgaria for a tour group representing the church in an indirect way. But on the way back, Brother Bradley, he taught LDS church history. We stopped at all the sites from New York to Missouri and the last place we stopped, we were in a bus, was the temple site right there in Independence and there’s a plaque or a marker there. It’s a historic marker placed there by the City of Independence actually, not us. They’ve moved it since, but it’s still there I think in another location, if I remember right, a couple months ago. But it said on April 3rd, 1831 Joseph Smith and eight other people dedicated this spot for the temple in Zion where this church believes the Savior will come in the last days, boy that hit me. I’d heard about Zion, we talked about it, but to stand at that site and go the latter day Zion will be here someday.

                                           00:11:51             It will, the Savior is coming and Zion will be established. This great millennial city will be part of the final wrapping up scenes. That’s what got me. I took as many church history courses as I could from Ken Godfrey and Brother Bradley and others. I ended up majoring in Family and Human Development. But just to make a long story short, my first couple of weeks at Beaumont Seminary I got a letter saying they were gonna have a master’s program in history at BYU and invited some of the seminary teachers to come and apply. I essentially was able to get in the program, got a master’s and then went on for a PhD. But it was that experience right there at the temple site that something happened, which was really special. Since then, I’ve felt like I needed to do something to kind of bring to light what happened there so we can have a better understanding of what will take place in the future.

Hank Smith:                      00:12:57             Wow. It’s wonderful. It’s wonderful for me personally, my association with you has been nothing short of life changing. A beautiful, beautiful thing. Let’s jump in. Got the Come, Follow Me Manual in front of me. The title this week, the title of the lesson is His Sacrifice Shall Be More Sacred Unto Me Than His Increase. And here’s how it begins. There was a reason for the saints to be optimistic about their newest gathering place Far West, Missouri, the city was growing rapidly. The land seemed abundant and nearby was Adam-ondi-Ahman, a place of great spiritual significance in the past and in the future. Still, it must have been hard for the saints not to think about what they had lost besides being driven from Independence, the center place of Zion. The Saints also had to flee Kirtland, leaving their beloved temple after only two years.

                                           00:13:50             And this time it wasn’t just enemies outside the church causing trouble. Many prominent members had turned against Joseph Smith, including four members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Instead of focusing on what they lost, the faithful just kept building Zion. This time in Far West they made plans for a new temple. Four new apostles were called. They understood that doing God’s work doesn’t mean you never fall, it means you rise again, though you’ll have to make sacrifices. Those sacrifices are sacred to God, even more sacred than your increase. That’s Section 117. A beautiful way to start, Alex, do we wanna jump in? It’s April of 1838.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:14:33             That’s probably one of the most outstanding introductions to these sections, I think it’s the longest one in the entire manual to try to set the stage for this. Joseph had experienced apostasy, the church had tremendous apostasy in Kirtland. It was time to move on. Fortunately there was one place he could go and that is to the Saints in Far West and he left with Sidney Rigdon on January 12th, 1838. He got the revelation, it’s not canonized, but it’s in the Joseph Smith papers. It says leave. Leave right now. It’s dead of winter. He and his family arrive in Far West on March 14th. It’s a two month journey in the dead of winter. But he gets there and fortunately they have a place for him. I won’t go into all that, but he’s going to board with a family named George, George M. Hinkle for a little bit. But the saints in Missouri are happy as can be that okay, Joseph has come here.

                                           00:15:38             Church headquarters now is here in Far West. When we talk about the significance of Far West, we have to say it is the church headquarters for 11 months from March until, March 1838 till February 1839 when the evacuation has basically finished. And again it’s a temple site which has been dedicated and consecrated for a future temple. Joseph F. Smith is born here, Hyrum’s son. By that time, Hyrum is in prison and he doesn’t get to see the birth, but little Joseph F. will be brought to Liberty Jail. It’s just a tremendous place in church history because at least there is a place Joseph and the church could gather. But little did they know that the storm winds were going to hit even harder. Unfortunately there are those who are gonna cause some problems. Like the introduction said, we’re gonna lose some, some of the key apostles, but the ones who replace them take the torch. They are stalwart stalwart men. You already discussed the fact that Joseph Smith gets there and they want to have a little discussion of some Isaiah chapters.

Hank Smith:                      00:16:53             Who doesn’t?

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:16:55             Yeah, who doesn’t? But it’s a nice little Q and A that helps us understand a few passages, very important ones in Isaiah. And then David Patten needs to know what’s gonna, he wants to have a personal revelation given to him and unfortunately he’s going to pass away during the Missouri period in a few months from the wounds of the Crooked River Battle. But section 115 is monumental. This is given as you can see on April 26th. So Joseph’s been there a little bit over a month. Wow. I really am moved by this. The revelation opens by Joseph and the Lord explaining to Joseph and the church, here’s my leadership. I do need to make a note of the change. If you’ll notice here it’s Joseph Smith Jr. Sidney Rigdon and Hyrum Smith. Just a few months earlier in November of 1837, Frederick G. Williams fell into, I guess you’d say he just wasn’t sustained.

                                           00:18:00             He had had some of his own personal problems. Hyrum is now in the First Presidency and as you know, he’ll remain in that presidency until his martyrdom there. He’s the replacement for Frederick G. The great thing about Frederick G. is he comes back, we gotta give him credit there. It’s an interesting verse also because it says Hyrum, it says Sidney Rigdon, Hyrum Smith and your counselors who or shall be appointed hereafter. I think most Latter-day Saints probably don’t know that Joseph and the First Presidency at this time consisted of not only Joseph, Sidney and Hyrum, but two additional counselors. They were none other than his father, Joseph Smith senior and also his uncle John Smith, the First Presidency and his counselors were not only first and second counselors, but additional counselors in the First Presidency. So I’m gonna quiz you just a little bit here. Hank and John, can you ever recall another presidency, First Presidency in which there was additional counselors?

John Bytheway:               00:19:16             I remember that was it President Kimball that had an extra counselor?

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:19:24             That’s correct. Do you remember who it was?

John Bytheway:               00:19:27             And it was President Hinckley.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:19:29             It was. It was President Kimball, President Tanner and President Romney, President Tanner died and then President Hinckley was called in as the second counselors. That’s the most recent one. Interestingly enough, David O. McKay had three additional counselors, Joseph Fielding Smith, Thorpe B. Isaacson, and Alvin R. Dyer. When that presidency was dissolved by the death of President McKay, those counselors were obviously moved back into their other quorums and then I think Joseph Fielding Smith became President of the Church.

Hank Smith:                      00:20:09             Just on a side note, do you have to be a member of the Twelve to be a counselor in the First Presidency?

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:20:17             And the answer is no. Both Thorpe B. Isaacson and Alvin R. Dyer were not. I’m just giving them as an example. Dyer was a member of what they called the assistant to the Quorum of te Twelve. Thorpe B. Isaacson was in the Presiding Bishopric. I believe it’s kind of unusual, but it could happen. I think Joseph set the precedence here and he actually called John Smith and Joseph’s father, Joseph Smith Sr. back in Kirtland. I just wanted to make a clarification that First Presidency doesn’t always consist of three singular high priests as outlined in section 107. But anyway, the revelation is addressed to them, this presidency. Then it says, and also unto my servant Edward Partridge and his counselors, well everybody knows Edward Partridge is the bishop in Zion. His first counselor at that point in time is Isaac Morley and his previous counselor was a man by the name of John Coral, but he’s been released from that and now it’s a guy by the name of Titus Billings and some of our Latter-day Saints might be familiar with his name. He’s addressing this Presiding Bishopric or the, I shouldn’t say the Presiding Bishopric, he was addressing this to the Missouri Bishopric. Then it also says about the high counselors, this would’ve been the 12 counselors who operated in the high council in Missouri. I won’t go through their names, but anyway, it’s an introduction to basically the leadership of the churches that existed at that point in time. I failed to mention Brigham Young at one time had six additional counselors.

John Bytheway:               00:21:54             Let’s go find that.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:21:57             That’s in his later years, beginning in 1873, Albert Carrington was one of, the point again I’m trying to make is there could be a time when additional counselors are called outside the first and second counselor there. You mention Alvin R. Dyer. David O. McKay loved Alvin R. Dyer and one of the reasons was he was the mission president of the Central State’s mission there in Missouri. From 1954 to 58, he fell in love with early LDS history and wrote a book called The Refiner Fire. That’s one reason why David O. McKay loved him. He brought David O. McKay back to see Far West and Adam-ondi-Ahman and said, we’ve gotta do something here. This is where it’s, we all wrap up. He takes him back there and after that they decide to actually develop the Far West temple property. So what we have today is because of Alvin R. Dyer.

Hank Smith:                      00:22:55             Alex verses one through three. A quick question. You’ve got the First Presidency, as we would call it, a Bishopric, and then you’ve got a basically a stake high council. I noticed there’s not a stake presidency. Is that something we have at this point or has that not happened?

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:23:14             Great question. Actually, I didn’t talk about this, but what ends up happening is we lose the presidency of the church in Missouri. That is David Whitmer, John Whitmer and WW Phelps. Those are the two counselors. They’ve been all excommunicated Phelps is coming back. We get again another revelation for him that is not canonized but he’s coming back, because of that Thomas B. Marsh, the Quorum of the Twelve, David Patten, and I think we can include Brigham Young. The three senior members of the Quorum of the Twelve are called president’s pro tem or pro tempore. We could probably include them in that group, but they’re not specifically mentioned as the presidency because they’re apostles. But they’ve taken an additional role as kind of the temporary stake presidency.

Hank Smith:                      00:24:13             They are working through a lot of complications during this.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:24:17             There’s very numerous changes in the leadership of the church as we move into this period. It is complicated, but it gets all sorted out. It works out okay.

Hank Smith:                      00:24:29             Let’s keep going. What’s next?

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:24:31             Well, in the latter part of verse three, the Lord is giving us a little prelude by saying, I’m gonna tell you the name of the church. He does. So then he says, more adamantly, for thus shall my church be called in the last days even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I think our hearers and listeners and viewers need to understand that the name of the church when it first was organized on April 6th, 1830 was called the Church of Christ. Now, that’s an appropriate name in every sense of the word, but there’s another group out there called The Cambellites who are known as the Disciples of Christ. That’s causing some confusion, particularly in Ohio, interestingly enough, on May 3rd, 1834 in the Evening and the Morning Star is a pronouncement that the name of the church will now be the Church of the Latter-day Saints.

                                           00:25:34             That’s the second name of the church. We’re not sure why the change, but you can see what’s happening here. We’ve got the Church of Christ. Then they alter the name enough to say, well, we’re distinguishing ourselves by calling ourselves the Church of the Latter-day Saints. But now the Lord says, it’s about time you use my name again. I guess you could say the full reference to Jesus Christ for verily thus shall my church be called the church. The is definitive article. I love that. Not a church of Jesus Christ or just the church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That to me is so significant. I’m just so grateful for President Nelson and his recognizing we need to come to full grips with the name. We’ve always been proud of our heritage, our Mormon heritage, and I’m almost using that in vain by saying that, but we’ve got to change it.

                                           00:26:41             I think we need to talk about, just for a minute, President Nelson was sustained on January 14th, 2018. 2018. This is what six, seven months later he calls a press conference and he emphasized the importance of using the correct name of the church and clarified the matter. Two days later on August 18th during a visit to Montreal, Canada stating that it was a course correction, not a name change. The name has been there, it’s a course correction in the fact we’re going to use the authorized most important name and that’s the name of the church is given by revelation. Not surprising, on October 7th, 2018, the Sunday morning broadcast, he explained why it was important that we use the proper name and I’d like to read that. He said, so this is starting to get everybody’s attention and now he’s going to tell us like it is and does so wonderfully.

                                           00:27:51             I did this because the Lord impressed upon my mind the importance of the name He decreed for his church. Even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the name of the church is not negotiable. When the Savior clearly states what the name of his church should be and even precedes his declaration with, thus shall my church be called, He is serious and if we allow nicknames to be used or adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, he is offended. What’s in a name or in this case a nickname? When it comes to the nicknames of the church such as LDS Church, the Mormon Church, or the Church of the Latter-day Saints, the most important thing in those names is the absence of the Savior’s name. To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan. When we discard the Savior’s name, we are subtly disregarding all that Jesus Christ did for us, even his Atonement.

                                           00:28:53             It doesn’t get any plainer than that. What happens, we change the logo. The Tabernacle choir’s name is changed to reflect again what it really is and that’s a choir that’s on Tabernacle Square. It’s not a Mormon choir. I think this is one of the most electrifying moments in our most recent church history. We even got the Church of Jesus christ.org. This is a terrific contribution from the President of the Church when he sees we need to re-identify ourselves the way we’re supposed to be identified and it’s made a world of difference in this world of the internet and in every aspect of our lives. They even asked the press, please use the full name of the church. Be respectful. This is our name. That was an earth shaker.

Hank Smith:                      00:29:49             One important part of this is to see that President Nelson wasn’t saying, look, everything we’ve done before this, President Monson, President Hinkley was some sort of mistake. He says, I realize with profound regret that we, including him, have unwittingly acquiesced in the Lord’s restored church being called by other names. We did it unknowingly. This wasn’t something we did intentionally, that it was a course correction. I like the way he put that.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:30:19             Now we can’t go back and say Trail from Nauvoo to Salt Lake is the Latter-day Saint Pioneer Trail. He’s not saying that. That’s in the history books. We identified ourselves because of our religious affiliation with the Book of Mormon, as Mormons. People knew us by that name, but there’s time for a change. The emphasis, like I say, it’s the past is the past. That’s the way it was, but now we can make a difference by using the proper name. I have even in my writings, I have to use the name Mormon when we’re talking about some of the problems because that’s historically the way we were referred to. Well, if I can get away with it, I’ll always use the proper name of the church there. I belong to the Mormon History Association. Well, they still have to use that name. I wish they could be a better one, but that’s just the way we have to refer to it sometimes, but not the church.

Hank Smith:                      00:31:21             Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:31:21             Shout out to Mormon. Boy, if we had to be nicknamed after anybody, but I think he too would point us to Christ. It’s a mouthful to say the full name of the church. It’s one of the longer names of any church I can think of but I love the ownership implied. It’s the Church of Jesus Christ, but then it’s his church, but then it’s my church too of Latter-day Saints. I love that idea. It’s his, it’s mine. It’s ours. I think it’s beautiful.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:31:55             Of course we get a Book of Mormon, the early church after Christ brought his gospel to the Nephites, how be it my church save it be called in my name. We have scriptural justification for always calling it after him and it’s just been a wonderful change. The mindset is well ingrained now in the Latter-day Saints. Wherever you can, use the name.

John Bytheway:               00:32:23             Hank a few weeks ago we told the story of Gladys Knight who was singing at Disney World and somebody said they’d noticed a new light about her. She gave a very general answer and then they asked again and Gladys Knight announced at Disney World, I’ve become a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When I think about that, I love that she used the full name of the church there. It just wouldn’t have been the same had she said, I’ve become a Mormon. I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I love it. Thank you Sister Knight.

Hank Smith:                      00:32:58             In this situation, I see a very merciful teacher in the Lord. April 6th, 1830, we’re gonna call this the Church of Christ. I can see him saying, okay, that’s good. 1834, well it is our church too. We’re gonna call it the Church of the Latter-day Saints. I can see the Lord going, oh, okay, and then I can see him saying, well how about it’s mine and yours, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Then I can see him letting time pass and watching us drift into nicknames. Then he comes around, you know it’s a true and living church. So I like to see him saying, all right, we’re far enough along. Let’s get back to that name that I gave you. I don’t know, I see him very merciful through this whole process, but also have accountability.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:33:46             Yeah, that was very profound. Lord lets us grow into things. Sometimes it takes a little longer time than probably he would want, but His Church is guided by living prophets and we’ll make the necessary changes when the time’s right. The time was right. The reason it’s right is really because of the next verse. Look at these struggling saints in Missouri. Look at verse five and six. Maybe John you could read that.

John Bytheway:               00:34:18             I would love to. Verse five verily I say unto you all arise and shine forth that thy light may be a standard for the nations and that the gathering together upon the land of Zion and upon her stakes may be for a defense and for a refuge from the storm and from wrath when it shall be poured out without mixture upon the whole earth.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:34:42             The great statement, this church is gonna arise and shine forth. We are born in a day and age when the church is highly visible, it’s well respected. Sure we have our antagonists, but quite frankly we ain’t seen nothing yet. The best is yet to come, the hardships as well, but this church will arise and shine forth. I have a statement here by Harold B. Lee. This people must increase in beauty before the world, have an inward loveliness which may be observed by mankind as a reflection in holiness and in those inherent qualities of sanctity. The borders of Zion where the righteous and pure in heart may dwell must now begin to be enlarged. The stakes of Zion must be strengthened. All this so that Zion may arise and shine by becoming increasingly diligent in carrying out the Plan of Salvation throughout the world. The missionaries, the temples we’re on the maps in a lot of places, more is yet to come.

                                           00:35:46             It’s shining forth, but the bright light will get brighter and brighter until the Savior comes. Every Latter-day Saint ought to have such optimism for where this church is headed. It is a marvelous work and wonder. It will only grow in strength and power and influence. In verse seven, the Lord says, Far West is a pretty holy place. Probably the reason it’s a holy place is because we’re gonna put a temple here. He announces the need for them to gather, to unite and begin laying the foundation of the church and building up the church in Far West. Now this is a pronouncement of a temple to be built here. As anyone who knows who’s been back to Missouri, there is a temple site there that you can visit that was dedicated as a place for a temple but it never got built. But I think there might be another reason that Far West is a holy place.

                                           00:36:51             There’s a man by the name of Reed Peck, very faithful early Latter-day Saint. He’s part of the Colesville branch. He comes to Jackson County, he’s faithful, he’s pushed with the rest of the saints into Clay County. He comes to Far West, and after the expulsion order. He decides to return to New York. He’s been hammered. He writes a letter to his friends back East. He describes some of the things he has been through and it’s sad that he decides to leave the church, but in part of his letter he talks about these sacred sites, Adam-ondi-Ahman and so on, but then he says that Far West was the place where Cain killed Abel. Now it’s only one account and as a historian you kind of have to go, that’s one person. There’s no other collaborating evidence, but where did he get that information? I think we can safely say Joseph Smith, but there’s not a lot of other evidence for it. But if that’s the case that Adam-ondi-Ahman is where Adam lived and Cain slew Abel at Far West, perhaps that’s why he’s saying the blood of the first martyr was shed right here where you’ve settled. Now that’s highly speculative, I admit, but it is part of the historical record that somewhere he learned that and I have to think that Joseph Smith may have been teaching it, but not necessarily didn’t capture a lot of attention.

Hank Smith:                      00:38:27             Wow. Yeah, that’s cool.

John Bytheway:               00:38:30             That verse five, arise and shine forth that thy light. That was a theme for the youth. There’s so many things that I love about that, thy light. I remember reading it and thinking, wait a minute, I thought Jesus is the light of the world. But then Jesus himself comes and says, ye are the light of the world. It’s one of the only nicknames I can think of that we get to share with the Savior, which is a wonderful thought. And then in third Nephi is it 18 Hank and Alex where he says, I am the light which ye shall hold up. Our light is his light type of a thing. But what I wanted to share with you that I think is such a parallel verse is in Isaiah, listen how closely this sounds like the same verse. 115 verse five.

                                           00:39:19             This is Isaiah 60, verse one and two, arise, shine; for thy light is come and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee and his glory shall be seen upon thee. The Gentiles shall come to thy light and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Isn’t that impressive? It sounds like the same thought. It is footnoted there. I thought about Gladys Knight. People saw a light on her and look what it says in verse two. His glory is seen upon thee. Hey, what is that? What happened to you Sister Knight? I just had to throw in that that Isaiah verse. That sounds like same thought almost.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:40:07             That’s terrific. It shows you Joseph had to be inspired and would’ve come across that maybe at some point in time in his maybe his translation or other kind of things that it’s really good.

Hank Smith:                      00:40:21             Alex, I have been with you I think twice in my life, to Far West, Missouri, a holy consecrated land that says in verse seven, it shall be called most holy for the ground upon which thou standest is holy. There you have this temple site, a beautiful memorial there. How do you feel about it? I think our listeners would be interested. When you walk around places like this, what goes through your mind? As John said earlier, this was a huge city and you go out there now and there’s, it’s just fields.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:40:54             Yeah. Far West became quite the gathering place, but was short-lived as you know. The thing that always comes to me is the disappointment that must have happened when there was so much optimism. Here’s Joseph Smith, this is where we can probably at least stay in Missouri and build up the kingdom. And then within less than a year, the enemies came against us. I think the Latter-day Saints were very, very disappointed that Zion was not established in Jackson County or temporarily in Clay or in Far West. I can just imagine their disappointment and unfortunately for many Latter-day Saints, they gave up. Some Latter-day Saints anyway, but the the ones who stuck with it, stuck with Joseph Smith, stuck with the church, they will move forward and build that beautiful city with a temple on the hill in Nauvoo. They put Missouri behind them and move on.

                                           00:41:51             I admire those Latter-day Saints who tried with all their heart to build Zion to establish something in Missouri. It didn’t happen, but they continued to be faithful. I think of those who suffered so much in terms of privation and hardship and persecution. I tell you one time I was sitting at the temple site and a bus came with a whole bunch of teenagers on one of these tours. They were coming and came off the bus. Finally one teenager, he says, gosh, there’s nothing here. Let’s just go. We’re on our way to Nauvoo. We need to get to Nauvoo. And I just sat there and I go, well, we only knew the backstory of these people. It is a sacred place where the Latter-day Saints lived for a time trying to do what they were commanded. We figure there was over 200 people who died during the short time. They’re in Caldwell County in the Far West area. Of course some of the most tragic being at the Haun’s Mill, but that’s what runs through my mind when I see this emptiness, this place. To them it was sacred and hoped to be where they could live out their lives in peace. Had to move on, but they did.

John Bytheway:               00:43:06             Yeah, there’s the four cornerstones now there and the church has a nice little monument with some of the sections that we’re looking at today, some of those verses, a really well air conditioned restroom that the church built there. My bus wanted to stay in the restroom because it can be pretty hot there. I’m intrigued by the name of the place Far West and it’s just a reminder. Well for them, that was pretty far to the west, right? That was frontier-ish. I would love to know what’s the future? It’s a question I got there and I probably didn’t give as good of an answer as you can give us right now. What’s gonna happen to that site?

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:43:48             Well, again, we just don’t go around dedicating temple sites and not have something there. Again, there is a glorious future for Missouri. We all know that the church is very strong in Missouri. We have a temple down the road in Kansas City, but it’s almost Liberty. We have a temple going up in Springfield, Missouri. We have a temple in St. Louis. We’re establishing Zion in a different way in Missouri and like I say, wonderful Latter-day Saint, Church is very well respected there, has a really strong presence. We’ll have to wait and see. We’ll probably have to catch it from Spirit World camera, but the Lord has His plan for the Saints in Missouri, for those sacred places in Zion. We’ll let him fulfill his purposes in his own way, in his own time.

John Bytheway:               00:44:41             Tell me time-wise, how long has the Independence Temple site been abandoned until they start the one in Far West?

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:44:50             It was dedicated August 3rd, 1831. By this time it’s what, 1838? So it’s been seven years.

John Bytheway:               00:44:57             A long time. Giving temple sites that we haven’t built temples on. There’s a couple in a row there.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:45:03             The Clay County citizens got a little bit anxious that we were continuing to come there. Now there was only about 1500, 300 more than what we had in Jackson County, but they said we didn’t really plan on you staying forever, but let’s see if we can find you a place. And Doniphan says, okay, I think I can help them. And he does. When he’s elected to the legislature, he creates actually two counties. One Davies County, which we’re gonna be talking about, but also Caldwell. Again, the expectation was they have a right to be here. Let’s see if we can at least give them their own territory. He does and creates this county and they immediately begin moving in there. By the end of 1836 the county is created on December 26th, 1836 but most of the saints had already left Clay County. They had their crops and things they had to survive.

                                           00:45:57             So they move in the winter, come spring, on April 7th, celebrating another year of the church. There’s a decision by the church leaders in Missouri, we’re gonna build a temple. They think, well, why not? We need a place to worship. I can tell you it would’ve been a temple, much like Kirtland. They say, let’s get a committee together and form a committee to superintend the building of a temple. Well, what better time to do it than in July they decide to actually have a groundbreaking.

Hank Smith:                      00:46:33             And Joseph doesn’t know this.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:46:37             We’re still going, well, let’s do this. They did it prematurely. But I have that account. Phelps decides to write Joseph Smith and say, well by the way, we’re gonna build a temple. And here it is, Monday the 3rd of July, 1837 now was a great and glorious day at Far West, more than 1500 Saints assembled at this place and at half past eight in the morning, after prayer, singing, and an address, they proceeded to break ground for the Lord’s house.

                                           00:47:15             The day was beautiful. The Spirit of the Lord was with us. Listen to this, an excavation for this great edifice. 110 feet long by 80 feet broad was nearly finished. There was a non-member there a non Latter-day Saint and he said, I couldn’t believe it, using scrapers and shovels and pickaxes, in one day. I mean they didn’t have any backhoes or, I mean. But now I have to say the ground is very pliable. It’s deep rich soil, not rocks. It’s 10 12 feet deep, but rich top soil. But the point is they’re going, this is a good thing. I think we’re doing the right thing. Joseph doesn’t condemn them at all or say anything. Now he does come out real quickly for a short visit in November of 1837. He does say, maybe we ought to hold on this until we get a revelation on the subject. That’s this revelation. So he goes back and by the time he gets back, this is when he almost turns around immediately and comes back to Far West.

Hank Smith:                      00:48:22             That’s gonna be his permanent move.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:48:24             Yeah. He’s no longer, Kirtland’s gone. He’s not upset with it. I guess he was pleased with their ambition to have something there. This is the revelation confirming this is okay. In fact, he says, therefore I command you to build a house unto me. This is the formal injunction. So he says, we’ve got the general outline of the building, we gotta have some time, but let’s next July 4th to have a actual formal construction beginning. Now, unfortunately we’re going to have the problems that we’ll encounter with the northern Missouri, but then he says, but labor diligently and see if we can finish that. Don’t go in debt like we did in Kirtland, but I’ll show a pattern to you about this temple. But John Wickliffe Rigdon son of Sidney Rigdon said that this building was to be patterned much like after the Kirtland temple with two auditoriums, upper hall, upper lower halls, so on.

                                           00:49:26             They were basically planning on an additional structure much like the Kirtland temple. That probably gave them some real hope. But the interesting thing is these latter verses, and this is what’s going to cause problems, Joseph is told, and the church, this is verse 17, and again, verily I say unto you. It is my will that the city of Far West be built up speedily by the gathering of my saints. And then look at verse 18, and also at other places should be appointed for stakes in the regions roundabout as they shall be manifest unto my servant Joseph. From time to time, Joseph’s thinking big time here, Far West will be the center place for a gathering. But there will be other places. Now that plays into the very next section, which is the revelation regarding Adam-ondi-Ahman.

John Bytheway:               00:50:21             I’m so glad you answered that question. Well, are we coming back or did we do something wrong? And so the Lord is saying, well, we’re gonna build up Zion someplace else. But I like the way you answered that. Look, you don’t dedicate a temple site and then undedicate it I guess. I’m just curious about the future of that place ’cause there’s nothing there right now. There’s a Community of Christ Church across the street.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:50:47             Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:50:48             It’s hilly and the busses get lost half the time.

Hank Smith:                      00:50:52             Yeah, if you’re ever there with Alex, he will tell you about the dedication of the memorial and how Joseph F. Smith looked like he had a bad burrito for breakfast.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:51:04             You remember that?

Hank Smith:                      00:51:06             He looks grumpy.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:51:08             It was August 3rd, 1968 and they had a bunch of apostles there. Yeah, he was not a happy boy.

John Bytheway:               00:51:15             Can you tell us, Alex, at its height, what was the population of Far West of members of the church at its peak there.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:51:23             It’s hard to determine and partially because we’re only there a short time relatively, they start coming in, latter part of 36, get the county created, but then we are expelled. My estimates are that we probably had between five to 6,000 latter-day saints gather to Northern Missouri. How do I get that? Unfortunately, they’re right in the middle of a census period. There’s no census during this period of time. But one thing I have to go by is what I call Mormon defenders. When the Latter-day Saints are going against these Missourians are coming against them, we have about a thousand Mormon defenders, 900 to a thousand in Far West and a couple of hundred in Adam-ondi-Ahman. The average Mormon household is about five people per adult male. You times a thousand by five, you’ve got 5,000 plus you have the saints up in Adam-ondi-Ahman probably about between five, maybe six, maybe at the high point, 7,000. Now that correlates with when we go over to Quincy, there’s about 5,000 Mormons in Adams County. When the survey is taken in 1839, 40, we’re gonna move up. Quincy grows by about 5,000 people. Well those, most of those are Latter-day Saints. Low end five, maybe high end six to seven, but it’s not 15,000 or 12,000 that every now this is the whole county. This is Haun’s Mill, this is Guymon’s horse mill. This is all over, but Adam-ondi-Ahman adds a little bit more to that.

Hank Smith:                      00:53:11             Yeah, it doesn’t sound like much today, but then four to 5,000 in the general area. That’s a lot of people.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                00:53:19             Section 116 is the shortest section in the Doctrine and Covenants as we’ve mentioned. To understand that we have to realize that Joseph is now in Far West, the leadership of the church is in Far West. It’s time to clear out Kirtland, Joseph is encouraging anyone who’s not followed some of those apostates in Kirtland now come, we’ve got a place established come to Missouri. Well, we have a problem and that is that a lot of these saints coming from Ohio are poor. Well, in creating Davies County and Caldwell County, Caldwell County had been surveyed by the government since it was surveyed. You had to have the money up front to buy acreage. So it was a dollar and a quarter per acre in Davies County. The government had not surveyed Davies County. Anyone could go up to Davies County stake a claim of up to 160 acres.

                                           00:54:22             You don’t have to pay anything until the survey is taken place. This is why Joseph goes on an expedition in May. He’s gonna go up there and see what the possibilities are and we have one rogue Latter-day Saint. Most people have heard his name and that’s Lyman White. He’s going to be an apostle, but he got the idea. I’m gonna go up there. I like it up there. He actually purchases a preemption claim, meaning someone had already staked out the property, but if I guarantee that I will buy it from him, I’ll get the property. That was none other than Adam Black. I won’t go into that, but Adam Black is gonna be a leading antagonist out there. Lyman White is up in Davies County. He moves up there in February of 1838. So he’s the first Latter-day Saint. But if Latter-day Saints are coming from Kirtland, Joseph’s gonna say, well hey, if you don’t have any money, go right up to Davies County.

                                           00:55:26             There you can settle, you can improve your farm, build structures, but then you can file a preemption claim and then when that comes due, you’ll need to pay. That was favorable for many people who didn’t have any means to actually buy property in Caldwell County. The problem is there, there are some people up there who’ve already settled. In fact, that’s one reason why there was a division between Davies and Caldwell is because Doniphan felt like he needed to create two counties, one exclusively for the Mormons because there was some others up there that would not want to be attached to the Latter-day Saint County. There’s some people up there that did not want to be part of that. He created two counties to see that the bill would pass, but that doesn’t mean it’s a free country, you can go anywhere you want. Lyman White’s one of the first ones to go up there and establish this small home, and he operated a ferry on the Grand River.

                                           00:56:24             What does Joseph do? Well, the Saints are gonna come from the East and from Kirtland. We need to scout out and see if there’s land up here that we can see as a possibility for occupation. So on the 19th of May, he heads up with a small party. This is where he learns about this sacred place called Adam-ondi-Ahman. To help us understand Adam-ondi-Ahman we have to understand how this understanding of a place where Adam lived actually came about. That begins in 1831. Joseph Smith is doing a revision of the Bible, which we call the JST, and you’ve talked about that on your podcast many times. Moses five and six in the Pearl of Great Price corresponds with Genesis four and it talks about Adam and Eve and their posterity in the lone and dreary world, which surely took place at Adam-ondi-Ahman after they were expelled from the Garden of Eden, they went to Adam-ondi-Ahman.

                                           00:57:24             I think it’s important to mention that Brigham Young and Orson Hyde and some others mentioned that Jackson County was the place where the Garden of Eden was. And after their expulsion, Adam-ondi-Ahman is where they lived. Moses seven, for example, is a record of Enoch and his people and his creation of the city of Enoch. Was the city of Enoch close to Adam-ondi-Ahman? Well, we don’t know, but we do know based upon this revelation that this is the place where Adam and Eve went to following the expulsion from the Garden of Eden. Well, in 1835, Joseph Smith asked WW Phelps, Phelps, I want you to come back to Kirtland. We need you to print the Doctrine and Covenants that didn’t get printed in Jackson County and Independence, which was again the Evening and the Morning Star trying to publish the Book of Commandments. We’re gonna try again.

                                           00:58:21             We need you back here for your printing expertise. Phelps takes his son Waterman. Don’t you love that name? Waterman. Guess who he lives with? Well, none other than Joseph and Emma in that home that’s now been rebuilt, reconstructed in 1835, that’s where he would’ve lived with Joseph Smith. He’s sitting there a couple of months into it. Lo and behold, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery craft what is today, section 107 of the Doctrine & Covenants on priesthood and church government. What is mentioned in there section 107 is this outline of ancient priesthood government, the patriarchs and all of this. It’s a fantastic section on priesthood. Then we read now in section 107, verse 53 through 57. One of you read that.

John Bytheway:               00:59:19             107 starting in verse 53, 3 years previous to the death of Adam. He called Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, and Methuselah, who were all high priests with the residue of his posterity who were righteous into the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman and there bestowed upon them his last blessing. And the Lord appeared unto them and they rose up and blessed Adam and called him Michael, the prince, the archangel. And the Lord administered comfort unto Adam and said unto him, I have set thee to be at the head. A multitude of nations shall come of thee and thou art a prince over them forever. And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation and notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation. These things were all written in the book of Enoch and are to be testified of in due time.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                01:00:16             Now, can you imagine there is no manuscript for this revelation. It’s the actual printed document is all we have. Can you imagine Phelps coming home every night from the printing office and talking with Joseph and going, this is incredible. What is this Adam-ondi-Ahman? This is fantastic. He’s so enamored by that. He creates a poem and puts it in the newspaper, the Messenger and Advocate, which is what it was called at the time. He puts this poem and it’s fantastic. The world was once a garden place with all her glories common, and men did live a holy race and worship Jesus face to face at Adam-ondi-Ahman, that’s hymn number 49 in our hymnal. I hope it’s still there in the new one. He’s enamored by that and he’s so enamored he probably had to get permission from Emma to put it in the her 1835, 36 hymnal, but he puts it in there, makes just a couple of minor changes. Well, what happens on May 19th, Joseph Smith of 1838 he goes up there, he’s with George W. Robinson who’s keeping his scriptory book and what does he say? The Lord revealed to him that the place which is now called, well, how does it read? Let’s just read that section, Hank. It’s really short. You could almost memorize it.

Hank Smith:                      01:01:42             Right. That makes a lot of sense, Alex, so this had been mentioned way back in 107. When you see this short section, you’re going, well, how, where’s the context? It’s back there. Section 116 verse one, only verse, Spring Hill is named by the Lord Adam-ondi-Ahman because said he, it is the place where Adam shall come to visit his people, or the ancient of days shall sit as spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                01:02:12             Okay, this gets people excited. The entry is written by George W. Robinson. I can only imagine that when Joseph went back and mentions to people, we found the place where we learned in section, it was their section three of the 1835 edition, but our section 107 that we know where Adam lived. Boy, that gets people excited. There’s two reasons now people can go up there or want to go up there. It’s where Adam lived and it’s land is temporarily, we don’t have to pay for it. It’s pretty motivating. He mentions about the ancient of days. Now we’re gonna go jump back to your Old Testament. I don’t know if you discussed this in Daniel chapter seven, but here’s verses nine through 10 and 13 through 14. Notice again the key phrase here is who is the ancient of days? We clearly know from Joseph Smith’s this revelation, it’s Adam. Now I think a lot of people, a lot of biblical scholars wonder who the ancient of days is. Well, we know. The Latter-day Saints know because of this revelation, but go ahead.

Hank Smith:                      01:03:23             Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down and the ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow and the hair of his head, like the pure wool. His throne was like the fiery flame and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him. Thousand thousands ministered unto him and 10,000 times 10,000 stood before him. The judgment was set and the books were opened. John, you wanna take the other two? 13 & 14.

John Bytheway:               01:03:55             I saw in the night visions and behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven and came to the Ancient of days and they brought him near before him and there was given him dominion and glory and a kingdom that all people, nations and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away in his kingdom, that which shall not be destroyed.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                01:04:21             You read that we understand who the Ancient of days was, was Adam who comes and joins him, but none other than the Son of man, meaning Son of man of holiness, Jesus Christ. This is the great council meeting, I guess you might say at Adam-ondi-Ahman before the Lord’s final and last great appearing in the future. This was highly motivating to the Latter-day Saints to think Missouri is a land of promise and this is where the final events of this dispensation will take place. Elder McConkie has written a lot on this in his book, the Millennial Messiah. He even says, what’s 10,000 times 10,000? That’s 100 million. This is maybe figurative, but a lot of people. When I tell my students there’s gonna be a lot, they go, well, it’s really a hundred million. I said, well, it’d kind of be hard to fit, but you remember who’s gonna be there. Well, mortals and spirit world people and resurrected beings and that resurrected beings can hover and so, I don’t know.

Hank Smith:                      01:05:28             Like balcony seating.

Dr. Alex Baugh:                01:05:30             Yeah, yeah. It’s descriptive. But at the same time, I think we have no idea how this is gonna play out other than the fact that this will be a grand council in which the final keys are delivered back to Adam, who will deliver them to the Son of man himself. As part of that great final wrapping up scene of this Earth’s history. I wish we knew more about how that was to take place, but it got the Latter-day Saints excited and I think we can understand that this was very important to them and this was their hope and expectation.