John Bytheway:               00:00:06             Welcome everyone to another episode of followHIM. We’re so glad you’re here. This is one of our continuing series, Thoughts to Keep in Mind, and that means we have Ross Baron with us, also known as the Baron of Ross. That’s like chiasmus. Ross Baron, the Baron of Ross. I’m here with Hank Smith, of course, and Ross Baron, who is going to be our expert on our thoughts to keep in our minds today. And this is the topic: “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.’“. When I say that, you’re all thinking of the hymn, I’m sure. “And “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.’“. Today is scattering and gathering. Hank loves this topic. His talk at Ensign College was about this topic, very big picture. Hank, what are you looking forward to talking about today?

Hank Smith:                      00:01:01             Israel, Israel, God is calling was written by my great-great-grandfather.

John Bytheway:               00:01:04             What?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:01:05             What?

Hank Smith:                      00:01:05             I think it is just in my blood. Yeah.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:01:08             Is that true?

John Bytheway:               00:01:09             No kidding.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:09             I remember when Elder Christofferson gave his talk about that song and about this same message. It sings to me.

John Bytheway:               00:01:17             Yeah, literally. Well, what is the name of your great-great-grandfather?

Hank Smith:                      00:01:21             Richard Smyth is his name. Someone along the way said, “No, let’s be Smith.” I don’t know.

John Bytheway:               00:01:28             Let’s not be Smyth, let’s be Smith.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:30             This could have been, yeah, John Biththeway and Hank Smyth. John, you’re right on. For me, this is what the gospel is all about. I have found that young people, if they’ll understand their work, they will more clearly understand their worth. This is the work that we are engaged in. It’s much bigger than, let’s say, a restoration of a New Testament church, which it definitely is, that’s definitely part of what we’re doing, but it’s much bigger. It goes much further back than that. I’m excited for Ross to show us.

John Bytheway:               00:02:00             Oh, yeah, that’s great. What do the young men in the Aaronic priesthood quorum theme say every week, “I am a beloved son of God and he has a work for me to do.” And what is that work? President Nelson from the beginning, talking about greatest work, greatest thing you could ever do, gather Israel. So, Ross, we’re so glad to have you here. Are you excited to talk about this too?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:02:22             Oh, this is gonna be great. I’m really excited and grateful for these Thoughts to Keep in Mind that kind of add a little condiment to our Come Follow Me curriculum.

John Bytheway:               00:02:33             Yeah, exactly. Here’s the opening paragraph in our manual, which are so beautifully written. I always love these opening paragraphs. They’re so beautifully done and they give us big picture. So here it goes. In the desert of Sinai, Moses gathered the children of Israel at the foot of a mountain. There the Lord declared that He wanted to turn this group of recently liberated slaves into a mighty people. “Ye shall be unto me”, he said, “a kingdom of priests and an holy nation”. He promised that they would flourish and prosper, even when surrounded by larger, more powerful enemies. All this would happen not because the Israelites were more numerous or strong or skillful. It would happen, the Lord explained, if they would “obey [His] voice indeed, and keep [His] covenant”. God’s power, not their own, would make them mighty. Yet the Israelites didn’t always obey God’s voice and over time they stopped keeping His covenant.

                                           00:03:28             Many worshiped other gods and adopted the practices of the cultures around them. They rejected the very thing that made them a distinct nation–their covenant relationship with the Lord. Without God’s power protecting them, there was nothing to stop their enemies. There’s only two headings after this and it’s only a couple of pages, but the one heading is “The Scattering”. The next one is “The Gathering”. Ross, this is what I wanted to ask you. I feel like I didn’t fully get this. It seems to me today, and now I want you to correct me guys. The Bible, at first, it was Adam and Eve. It was the whole population of the planet, Adam and Eve and their posterity. And then we’ve got Noah’s Ark and then it gets down to, as Hank has explained, Shem, Ham, and Japheth-the sons off of the ark. Then those that come from Shem, sometimes called the Semites, here comes Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and God makes a covenant with Abraham.

                                           00:04:26             Abraham has a son named Isaac, who has a son named Jacob. Then it seems like the Bible becomes more this journal of the House of Israel. Then the scatterings spread the blood of Israel all over the world. I like to think of it as a fortunate scattering. When we’re being gathered, it’s not that we’re lost under the polar ice cap or something. It’s that we just don’t know who we are. Our patriarchal blessings remind us, this is who you are. You are part of Israel and part of this covenant. Now today, I see that more clearly and I think I’m getting that right. Am I getting that right, Ross?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:05:02             Oh, I think you’re 100% accurate the way you laid it out. I would simply say that the House of Israel, like you laid it out, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has a purpose. In previous episodes, I’ve talked about the blessings associated with the Abrahamic Covenant and corresponding obligations associated with the Abrahamic Covenant. And that if you don’t keep the corresponding obligations, you’re gonna lose the blessings. One of those is a land blessing, meaning they can have particular places that they can worship God and if they’re not keeping their corresponding obligations, they’re going to be scattered.

John Bytheway:               00:05:37             As we’ve talked about before, and Hank, I know you love to talk about this, there’s priesthood to bear the ministry. There’s a posterity, a blessing of children. Then there’s this idea of land. And that’s why scattering, what? You mean scattering in land? Because in the early days of the church, in the early days of the restoration, everybody was gathering to one place, but now it’s more of a gathering to stakes of Zion wherever you are.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:06:04             Yes. The land idea is, if you think about it, really, President Christofferson has alluded to this and talked about it, but the idea is that we’re going to have places where we’ll have enough permanence because of the blessings of God to be able to establish the covenant. We’ll be able to have temples and be able to worship and do it in such a way that it can be a blessing to those people there. You talked about how early on people had to gather to Kirtland or they had to gather to Nauvoo, or we’re gonna gather to Missouri, or we’re gonna gather to Utah. That was because that’s where the temple was. But now if you live in Norway, you can gather to Oslo. Or if you live in Japan, you can go to Kobe or Tokyo. If you live in Argentina, you can go to Buenos Aires or Cordoba.

                                           00:06:52             You have temples all over where, think about it, God has prospered the saints in these particular areas and established them in such a powerful way that they now can worship God, fulfill all of the terms and conditions of the Abrahamic Covenant in that area without having to travel to Utah or Missouri or Ohio or somewhere like that.

John Bytheway:               00:07:16             Part of our obligation is to bless all the families of the world. That’s like one of my favorite parts of the Abrahamic Covenant. Then when you think, well, how do you do that? You get them to temples. That’s the greatest thing we can offer is to bind families together in temples. When I was on my mission in the Philippines, there were zero temples there. Manila was announced and under construction. How could I bless those folks there? We could talk about the temple, but now I think, Hank, we’re at 11. Things really picked up after I left.

Hank Smith:                      00:07:50             I think it was because of you. I think that’s it.

John Bytheway:               00:07:52             No, no, no, not at all. But a place called Urdaneta now, a place where I met a sister on P-Day. We were buying tennis balls because we happened to have a tennis court in this little place we were serving and thought we could play tennis on P-Day. And this little woman walked up to us and said, “Who are you guys?” And we introduced ourselves and taught her, her name was Lourdes. And Lourdes Tabelin joined the church, served a mission herself and her brothers. Now she’s got a temple in Urdaneta. I mean, it’s just the coolest thing so that her family can be blessed with that.

Hank Smith:                      00:08:30             John, what you hit there, Genesis chapter 12. It seems to me that Genesis one through 11 are basically an introduction to Genesis 12. They’re the scrolling words before the actual story begins. And then it opens Genesis chapter 12, verse 1: Abraham, I’m going to make you and your family great. You will be a blessing in thee and in your posterity, shall all the families of the earth be blessed. It seems to me that’s the opener. Genesis chapter 12, verse one. That’s the real opening of the story.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:09:01             And that everything that came before was to get us to meet Abraham.

Hank Smith:                      00:09:04             Yep.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:09:05             Everything then from Abraham will really be to get us to meet Joseph, who is sold in Egypt.

Hank Smith:                      00:09:11             It’s a single family and they struggle. Oh, they struggle. They struggle.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:09:16             The book of Genesis, according to Elder McConkie, is about family, family, family.

John Bytheway:               00:09:21             Well, Ross, take off. Let’s go. Teach us about scattering and gathering.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:09:26             We’ve talked about the Abrahamic Covenant. We’ve talked a little bit about the scattering and gathering. But I wanna talk about the title of this lesson, which is “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.’”I wanna first talk about Jesus. It’s Jesus that’s going to do it. It’s Jesus that will say, it’s his timing, it’s his calendar. It’s going to be according to His will. I wanted to pause a minute. We’re gonna zoom in and we’re gonna zoom out, but this would be an opportunity to zoom out for a second. Think about the majesty of the kingdom of God on the earth today. We’re talking about the stone that was cut out of the mountain without hands that’s rolling forth to fill the whole earth. Let’s, let’s look at a couple of areas of what Jesus is doing and how Jesus is coordinating all the work of salvation and exaltation on earth and on the other side of the veil.

                                           00:10:24             Let’s talk about the church education system for a second. You’ve got BYU Provo, BYU Idaho, BYU Hawaii, Ensign College, Seminaries and Institutes, and you’ve got BYU Pathway Worldwide. The enrollment for those is 1.1 million. That’s the enrollment in the church educational system. Think about the Savior coordinating sleepy-eyed teenagers in the morning to people in your class, John, and your class, Hank, and people all over the world and Pathway Worldwide whose lives are being changed dramatically because of the church education system. The Lord is coordinating that in detailed ways across the earth. Anybody who’s listening who maybe doesn’t understand that the Savior is working in more places in Africa. Mongolia has pathway worldwide. By the way, Salt Lake City has BYU pathway worldwide. I remember talking to Kim B. Clark, who is former commissioner of Church Education, General Authority 70. He said, the goal of Pathway Worldwide is eventually to itself have one million students. Right now, we have 1.1 million students in church education.

                                           00:11:40             I think that’s astounding. That’s Jesus coordinating the work of salvation and exaltation to invite people to come home. Number two, think about missionary work right now. There are, according to the latest statistics, about 115,000 missionaries. Now, when I say that, there’s about close to 80,000 full-time missionaries. And then there are senior missionaries and there’s service missionaries. That total is at about 115,000. Think about that. Think about all of the things that are going on with coordinating MTC time, flights, apartments, all the things that go on to make… Hank, you have your son serving right now. There’s a bunch of things going on behind the scenes. So all he does is get up every morning, go out, teach, preach, expound, invite all to come into Christ. But there’s a ton of stuff and resources, logistics that are happening. And Jesus Christ is coordinating the work of the mission.

                                           00:12:46             I was talking recently to the managing director of the missionary training center. I mean, it opened my eyes. He, he just said, I wish I could give everyone a glimpse of what goes into making sure that 115,000 full-time missionaries are doing the work, are safe, and are worldwide getting to where they need to be. The Savior’s coordinating that. “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.'” . Okay. Now let’s think about temple work. 385 temples announced, in operation, or under construction. 385. Think about each one has a temple president. It’s like running a little city, by the way, if you’ve ever thought about what it would be like to run a temple. I think the Orem Temple has 1500 volunteers. That’s to coordinate all the different sessions. It’s astounding. Jesus is coordinating, organizing, overseeing, inspiring the work of salvation and exaltation that’s occurring in the temples.

                                           00:13:50             You and I all know, by the way, number one, we’re gonna have more students in church education. Number two, we’re gonna have more missionaries. The estimate is next year we’ll have 100,000 full-time proselyting missionaries. We’ve never had that many. 100,000 full-time proselyting missionaries. You and I know there’s gonna more temples announced. The other area I wanted to zoom out on is humanitarian. The church puts out now the report to the world about what humanitarian efforts we’re doing. Last year, almost $1.6 billion dollars in humanitarian aid, in 194 countries all through the world. Jesus Christ organizing, overseeing this incredible work of taking care of those in need, of uniting families for eternity, of inviting all to come unto Christ so that we can live the gospel and be called home. I wanted to zoom out on that for a moment. Think about, again, the light, the majesty, the power of God, our Eternal Father, and his Son, Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Ghost working a marvelous work and a wonder in the earth in His kingdom.

Hank Smith:                      00:15:04             Ross, I’m very impressed the more I study this with the Lord’s patience and the very measured growth. We are very impatient people. We want things to happen fast and big. If you go to Jacob five, which John, I don’t know if you know this, but I’m a big fan of this chapter.

John Bytheway:               00:15:23             The allegory.

Hank Smith:                      00:15:24             I mean, this is all about what we’re talking, what we’re doing today.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:15:28             It’s one chapter that encapsulates everything we’re talking about.

Hank Smith:                      00:15:31             The whole thing. There’s a verse that we often miss because it’s a long chapter. But the Lord’s talking about the growth of the tree. He said, be careful to clear away the branches which bring forth bitterfruit according to the strength of the good and the size thereof. Ye shall not clear away the bad thereof all at once, less the roots thereof should be too strong for the graft. And the graft thereof shall perish, and I shall lose the trees of my vineyard. It seems to me that we’re watching a very patient Lord with measured growth. I remember President Hinckley saying once, our biggest problem is –

John Bytheway:               00:16:06             Rapid growth.

Hank Smith:                      00:16:08             Yeah, he can’t keep up and it could go bad if it gets out of control. I really appreciate that. And then one thing that John frequently says that I think his mission president told him was the Lord gets his work done through his people and his people done through his work. It’s not just about the, “Hey, let’s get Israel gathered.” It’s about, well, who are we? When we’re gathered as we’re gathering, are we changing? Are we becoming?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:16:30             It’s interesting you brought that up because years ago I was teaching the parable, the wheat and the tares. I had this view and I was talking in my class. It was an institute class. I was saying what you said, Hank. I’m impatient because the angels wanna reap. Lord, let ’em reap. Like, let’s reap the tares. Let’s go. I had a very interesting moment in the class. What happened in class was the spirit, the spirit said to me, “You’d be reaped.” Then I stopped and I said, “No, reaping.”

Hank Smith:                      00:17:01             Let’s not go.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:17:02             And the whole class was like, “Wait, you just said reap.” And I was like, no, don’t reap. Let the Lord be patient. I was taught something though. I was taught something profound. And that is I’d always looked at the wheat and the tares as a binary. You’re either a wheat or a tare.

                                           00:17:17             And I think what the Lord was teaching me was that there was too much tare in me still so that I could become wheat. That he needed more time with me. That was a profound lesson. It was very private, by the way. It was happening in public, but it was happening with a spirit communication to me as I went from Lord reap to Lord, let’s wait and not reap.

Hank Smith:                      00:17:40             Please.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:17:41             Please. As I was thinking about the phrase, “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.’“. I just wanna glorify Jesus as he is in charge of this holy work. And he’s doing incredible things that prophecy of Daniel in chapter two, that it’s gonna roll forth and fill the whole earth. We’re not there yet, but I wanted to give us a glimpse that we’re on the way. Elder Quentin L. Cook came to BYU and he talked about how when the church was organized, it was the agricultural age.

                                           00:18:16             Then we went into the industrial age. That furthered the work of God. Then we went into the information age, that furthered the work of God. Now we’re in the AI age. Some people listening are worried or concerned. And Elder Cook, an apostle of Jesus Christ was like, nope. Just like those other ages furthered the work of God. God will further this work via that particular technology as well. And I thought, that is so inspiring and so hopeful. “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.’“. It’s Jesus who’s in charge. Jesus is gonna do it. It’s gonna be his calendar when it gets done. I find that super hopeful, very powerful. And I love what you said, Hank, about Jacob five. It is measured. But like President Hinckley said, the God is hastening his work. There is an acceleration going on and a momentum that’s happening that I have never seen in my lifetime.

                                           00:19:17             I think it’s super exciting and I’m grateful to be part of it. I don’t know your experience. I’d love to hear your take on this, John and Hank. I’ve been teaching in church education for a really long time. The students I teach now, this is nothing against my former students. I love them. But these students are more prepared, more scripturally literate, more aware of what their responsibilities are, more insightful in class and more prepared. Now, if you guys disagree, that’s fine, but that’s my experience over decades teaching in church education.

John Bytheway:               00:19:52             That is absolutely my experience. I think the inspired lowering of the mission age is evidence of that. They’re ready faster. I was telling Hank about a picture my daughter brought home who just got her mission call of all these kids. And I thought, oh, that’s the senior class. That’s a graduating class. No, those are the ones in the graduating class who have accepted mission calls. It was huge. And oh, those are all over, she says, on the internet. Another thing I was thinking about was President Nelson, when he added on both sides of the veil that the gathering, that was huge for me. Oh, yeah, of course. Now when I say to my kids, I’m going to the temple. How do you do that? They grab my phone and get me a name of a relative that fast. All those ways I think of hastening the work.

                                           00:20:47             But yeah, back to your point, I absolutely think that’s true. I’ve noticed that with my students, I suppose, because I have great emphasis on the scriptures that has happened over the decades, but also, it’s who they are. They’re coming different.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:21:02             It’s who they are. But I will say this about Ezra Taft Benson in the 1980s. Turning us to the Book of Mormon shifted something eternally to me. And those great parents who followed President Benson and created a generation and now we’re looking at the grandkids, some of those grandkids, because they know their Book of Mormon and they’ve received a witness that it’s true.

Hank Smith:                      00:21:25             Which Jesus says in Third Nephi, this is the tool of the gathering. That’s how you’ll know. If you’re reading these words, he says, you can know. It’s actually already started. What words? Oh, these words that I’m reading right now.

John Bytheway:               00:21:38             Yeah.

Hank Smith:                      00:21:39             Part of me is like, hey, there are more Latter-Day Saints in the spirit world than ever before. So, the roots are growing too. That’s what I see as our ancestors. Our roots are growing too.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:21:49             I don’t know if you guys are aware, but the family history app and the family history department, we ad hundreds of millions of names every year. There’s 22 billion names. I think that’s the latest statistic. More people not of our faith are on family history apps than of our faith. This is the Lord Jesus Christ doing his work worldwide. Part of today I wanted to just get excited about “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.'” . Jesus is involved. Jacob five. Jesus is ministering with us. We’re in that one segment of Jacob five where the Lord himself is working with his servants to gather. There’s only one section in Jacob five where this Lord comes down and this is that time. It is exciting because amazing things are going on and will continue to go on. Grateful to be part of it.

John Bytheway:               00:22:47             Is it Malachi who calls Jesus the messenger of the covenant?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:22:51             Yep.

John Bytheway:               00:22:53             That’s why I like that. And Jesus will say, He’s the messenger of the covenant. Jesus will say, “Come home.”

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:22:59             Yep. “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.’“. Can we go to Revelation chapter five? ‘Cause I wanna go from premortality. Let’s go way back because I want to emphasize, I know I’m really hammering this point. Really in the end, we’re here to preach Christ and Him crucified. I absolutely love this. I’m in Revelation chapter five. I’m starting to read in verse one. This is John the beloved. “And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals…I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice”. Here’s the question. Who is worthy to open the book and to loose the seals thereof? Now, the question is, what’s the book? Section 77 tells us it’s the economy and the mysteries of God. It’s actually the will of God. It is His plan.

                                           00:23:50             He’s saying, who can open the book? Or another way, who can carry out the will of God? John, Hank, the three of us might have raised our hand and said, “Hey, we’ll go down.” Everyone would’ve looked at us and said, “Put your dang hands down.”

Hank Smith:                      00:24:03             Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:24:04             Don’t do that. Because what we need to understand about Jesus, Jesus was not only willing, but he was able. Verse three, “no man in heaven nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book” or in other words, was able to fully carry out the will of God. No one, by the way, that would’ve included Lucifer. Think that you and I would’ve seen that no one could do it. No one. Verse four, John the beloved. “And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.” John the beloved is like weeping. Oh, no one can do it. The angel. Weep not, verse five: “behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.” Look at that.

                                           00:24:57             And by the way, notice the word prevail there. Let God prevail that Jesus is the embodiment of what Israel means. That he will prevail. He will open the book. He will carry out that. After he opens the seals of the book, oh my word, everyone starts to praise God. Verse nine: “And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred tongue, and people, and nation…hast made us, unto us our God, kings and priests: and we shall reign on earth.” Then verse 12, everyone sings with a loud voice. Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory and blessing. Verse 13, “…every creature which is in heaven and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea and all that are in them, heard I saying Blessing and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.”

                                           00:26:03             It was a party because we knew that Jesus could carry out the will of God. He’s doing it today. His work isn’t done. He is saying to all of Israel, come home. It’s gonna be according to his calendar in a measured way, like you said, Hank, earlier. But he is powerfully working in the earth today to gather scattered Israel.

Hank Smith:                      00:26:27             Ross, when we say gather scattered Israel, why was Israel scattered? Because I might ask a young adult, hey, what are we doing? We’re gathering Israel. They’ve listened to President Nelson. And then I might say, “Okay, when was Israel scattered?” And they’ll, they might … Well, at, you know, at some point there was a scattering. So, can you give us a brief, hey, when was Israel even scattered? What are we gathering?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:26:50             John brought up Jacob has 12 sons. Those 12 sons are the tribes of Israel, the house of Israel. God is sending particular spirits through the house of Israel to do what? To wear out their lives, to bless all of humanity. That’s what you said earlier, Hank, when you were talking about Genesis chapter 12. In thee and thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed because we’re gonna serve others. We’re gonna go do that work. They have Israel. God’s plan is there gonna be a kingdom of priests and priestesses and kings and queens. To what end? To bless all of the nations of the earth. Well, they don’t live up to that, to put it mildly. And then we go into different periods of ebbing and flowing of different laws that God is giving them and blessing them and blessing the earth, but it’s not fully happening.

                                           00:27:41             We know that under the reigns of King Saul, then King David who essentially unites the tribes of Israel and the Holy Land, and then they’re under Solomon, and then there’s a division. We talked a little bit about this when we talked about the historical books, that there’s the northern tribes, which is about 10 of the tribes of Israel. And then there’s the Southern tribes, which is usually called Judah. And in about 721, as prophesied by the prophets, specifically Isaiah, but Moses as well, Deuteronomy chapter four and Deuteronomy chapter 28, the blessings and the curses. Because of wickedness, they were scattered. 721 BC, 10 of the tribes are scattered throughout the world and essentially lost, and I use that phrase carefully, lost in the sense that they lost their full identity as children of the covenant. 120 plus years later, you’ve got Lehi at the time of Jeremiah, by the way.

                                           00:28:40             Jeremiah’s prophecy is you submit to Babylon. If you don’t submit to Babylon, you’ll be killed because Babylon’s gonna be my instrument in carrying forth my work, but you’re gonna be scattered because you’ve been so wicked. Lehi is living at the time of Jeremiah and that’s around 600 BC day leave. Then Judah has stayed kind of as a nation, but by 586, 587, they’re scattered as well. And they’re scattered into Babylon and probably other places. Then under Cyrus, they start coming back in the middle of the 6th century after about 70 years of being scattered. Then a group of Jews come back from Babylon, this is called the post-exilic period. These Jews are allowed by various kings in Persia to reestablish themselves to build the walls of Jerusalem, to even rebuild the temple. That happens again in the 6th century, about the mid 6th century, 535 up to there at 515.

                                           00:29:39             That is then Judah. Now, there’s a series of different kingdoms like we talked about in the historical books, the Greeks under Alexander the Great. Then you’ve got Hasmoneans and then you’ve got Rome. Then Jesus comes during the Roman period. Then after Jesus is crucified, about 70 AD under Titus, Rome then does another cleansing and there’s another revolt about 70 years later, 80 years later, essentially the Jews are scattered worldwide. Now the Jews have, miraculously, to a certain degree kept their identity as Jews, but pretty much all the other tribes have been lost again, and I use the word lost, not that God doesn’t know where they are, but that they’ve lost their identity. So, in the latter days, God through Joseph Smith sends Moses for the gathering of Israel, Elias for the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, and then Elijah to be able to have the sealing keys so the what’s sealed on earth can be sealed in heaven.

                                           00:30:43             Then the whole work of salvation and exaltation is to find scattered Israel to bring them back and then then to bless every Gentile on Earth as well with the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to be able to come back and by covenant unite themselves with Christ.

Hank Smith:                      00:31:01             Absolutely. And the Book of Mormon people are part of that scattering. What’s interesting though is they weren’t wicked. I don’t know if the Lord says, I’m not gonna scatter you. I’m going to place you over here.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:31:11             In fact, he says, I’m gonna do that. Jacob five, I’m gonna take that branch and I’m gonna put it over here and I’m gonna bring you to a choice land, choice above all other lands for the blessing of the peoples there and for their own blessing.

John Bytheway:               00:31:29             That was exactly the question I was gonna ask because Lehi and his family in Ishmael, that whole group, did they get scattered or did they just get… I’m gonna put you over here for safekeeping. I think somebody, Hank, in the past talked to us about imagine the interview for Jeremiah and the interview for Lehi. Jeremiah, you’re gonna go to prison. You’re gonna have a really hard time. That’s your calling. Lehi, I’m taking you to a choice land.

Hank Smith:                      00:31:56             Ezekiel, you’re going with him.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:31:58             Jeremiah, you’re gonna turn the lights out in Jerusalem. That’s what you’re gonna do.

Hank Smith:                      00:32:02             Ross, it seems in the Book of Mormon, they even forget who they are because when Jesus comes, he says, hey, by the way, you’re the house of Israel. And I think they’re going, no, I think you got the wrong…

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:32:10             No, we’re Nephites. No, you’re my people. We talked about that when we did the Book of Mormon and I came on and we talked about third Nephi 20 and 21, where he’s very clear, you are my people. You’re the house of Israel. This is very, very important.

John Bytheway:               00:32:25             When we’re talking about lost, it’s not geographic. It’s more in our hearts and in our minds. I didn’t know who I was.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:32:33             I’ll say to students jokingly, I’ll go, “You all look like a bunch of Ephraimites. Are you guys Ephraimites?” And they’ll be like, “Yeah, we’re Ephraimites.” Or somebody will be like, “I’m from Manasseh.” I was like, “Okay, how do you know that? ” John, to your point, like, how do you know you’re Ephraim? I got a patriarchal blessing. Awesome. And you get a patriarchal blessing because you get baptized, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and now because you’re a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you have a patriarch who is ordained to be able to declare lineage. So you were lost, but now you’re found. Now you’re in the kingdom. That’s exactly right.

John Bytheway:               00:33:06             A term that sometimes I hear that my students weren’t acquainted with, diaspora. Can you explain that term?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:33:14             Yeah, that term is essentially the scattering. It’s usually used more with reference to Jews. In terms of a Latter-day Saint context, it’s totally appropriate. But if it’s in an academic setting or maybe a more secular setting, it’s usually the scattering of Jews. For example, one side of my family were in Spain. They were in Spain when Ferdinand and Isabella came along. Then there was the Inquisition. My Jewish ancestors were scattered–the diaspora, the diaspora. They left Spain so they were Sephardic Jews. Then they left and they went to Amsterdam and they went to Lithuania. Then from Lithuania and Amsterdam, after hundreds and hundreds of years, they went to England, Canada, and the United States. That’s what’s referenced there. But I think the diaspora in terms of what we’re talking about is the scattering of all of Israel. But again, we should be careful if we’re using that term with people that aren’t Latter-day Saints.

                                           00:34:11             They might think that specifically references Jews, but it references all.

Hank Smith:                      00:34:15             September 21st, 1823, when Moroni appears to Joseph Smith, he says, we’re gonna fulfill Isaiah 11, which is the gathering of Israel. I love that. He doesn’t say we’re gonna restore Jesus’ church, does he? He says, we are gonna gather Israel.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:34:34             I love your point based on your comment, the Isaiah 11. So Moroni 1823, Isaiah 11 is about to be fulfilled. That’s what he says, right? It’s about to be fulfilled. If you’re in Isaiah 11, I’m actually in Second Nephi 21. I prefer the brass plate version of Isaiah 11. 2nd Nephi 21:11, “And shall come to pass in that day that the Lord shall set his hand…the second time to recover the remnant of his people…from Assyria…from Egypt…from Pathros…from Cush…from Elam…from Shinar…from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea everywhere.” Then he says this, look at the order. This is now verse 12. “And he shall set up an ensign for the nations.” So, there’s going to be this signal, this sign, this token to which people can look. He’s gonna set up this banner for the nations. Notice this.

                                           00:35:31             The ensign will be for the nations, the Goyim, and ashem – assemble the outcasts of Israel and gather together the dispersed of Judah. Do you see the order? Who do we go to first? Gentiles. Christ first came to Jews and then went to Gentiles. In the latter days, he goes to Gentiles, then he goes to Jews. So that the first will be last and the last will be first. Isaiah lays out the order. He’s gonna go to the nations, the Goyim. He’s gonna assemble the outcast of Israel, northern tribes, specifically Ephraim. And then eventually, he’ll gather together the dispersed of Judah. From where? From the four corners of the earth. And then verse 13, “The envy of Ephraim also shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.” In the past, once the tribes divided, the Northern kingdom was against the Southern kingdom.

                                           00:36:29             The Southern kingdom goes against the Northern kingdom. But in the latter days… No, no, no. Ephraim and Judah cooperate. They coalesce. I mean, this podcast with my two Ephraimite friends, Hank and John, you guys are not vexing me. Hank vexes me occasionally. But John never vexes me. And my wife is an Ephraimite, so I’m fulfilling this prophecy. You’re welcome.

                                           00:36:56             It’s so fascinating that Isaiah translated into English, it gives us the order. Hank, I appreciate you bringing that up. That’s beautiful. Isaiah chapter 11. We’re gonna fulfill that, and that is Jesus saying to all Israel, come home.

John Bytheway:               00:37:10             I like to say you get scattered… First, you lose your testimony, then you lose your real estate. That sounds like the order Nephi’s talking about. You get scatterbrained and then you lose your real estate. And then you gather to Christ in your heart and mind. And then you gather to lands or to stakes of Zion.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:37:28             Amen. Well said.

Hank Smith:                      00:37:32             I’ve noticed 1823 we’re going to fulfill Isaiah 11. The first 20 sections of the Doctrine and Covenants, many of them start with, “A work is about to come forth among the children of men.” Then we get to section 20. We never hear that again. We never hear a work is about to come forth among the children of men. So, it seems that the Lord says, okay we gotta get The Book of Mormon in place.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:37:53             That’s right.

Hank Smith:                      00:37:54             And it’s what, 10 days after published?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:37:55             I think the ensign – Okay, so I’m gonna say this…

Hank Smith:                      00:37:58             Is the ensign the church?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:38:00             It’s the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the vehicle through which we can do that. On 3rd Nephi 28, it says, they were all converted unto the Lord and united to the church. So, I love that phrase. They were all converted to the Lord and united to the church. I’m converted to Jesus Christ and I am united to his church on Earth, which is his vehicle through which the ordinances and covenants can be dispensed, given to all humankind on both sides of the veil.

Hank Smith:                      00:38:35             Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:38:36             Ross, I love that so much. It was beautiful. I used to tell people that my dad was a convert to the church and the more I studied the Book of Mormon, the more I noticed it never uses that language. It is very consistent. They were converted unto the Lord. I like to show my class about 10 references in a row and then I show them that last one. Okay, where’s the church fit in? They were converted unto the Lord and united with the Church of Christ in Third Nephi 28, like you said. But I love that the object of our conversion is to Christ, not to an organization.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:39:08             Although I am loyal and committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I am loyal and committed to His prophets who have the priesthood authority and the keys to, again, allow me to have the gift of the Holy Ghost and all of the blessings. Without that, we wouldn’t be able to do it. It is the kingdom of God on earth. It’s the kingdom of God on Earth.

John Bytheway:               00:39:33             In fact, Elder Christofferson gave a talk called Why the Church? He’s emphasized that verse third Nephi 28 about converted unto the Lord united with the Church of Christ. And there, a bunch of imperfect folks get together, but the power of God is there and the ordinances are there and the priest is there and the Holy Ghost is there. And now we can go bless the families of the earth with all of that. I love that.

Hank Smith:                      00:39:56             Ross, I loved how you said the church is actually the vehicle. It’s not the point. Section 84, verse two, “…the Lord concerning his church established in the last days for the restoration of his people.” When we talk restoration of the church, yes, for what purpose? For the restoration of his people.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:40:15             Elder L. Tom Perry gave a talk at BYU Idaho where he talked about the church’s scaffolding. Now think about that. I’ve used scaffolding before to do things at my home. When you’re done doing the thing at your home, what do you do with the scaffolding? You get rid of it. It served its purpose. I think it’s really interesting that in Ephesians four, when Paul says, I like to ask the question, so how long are we gonna need apostles? “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, under the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”. I need apostles and prophets till we all come in the unity of faith. Do we still need them? Yep. We have not got there yet. But at a certain point, that’s gonna probably be in the next life.

                                           00:41:00             We are united to Jesus Christ and Jesus’ prayer in John 17 is that we will be one with the Father and one with the Son and one with the Twelve. Then we’ll be fine. It’ll be all good. I mean, I don’t want anybody to misunderstand. Again, I love the kingdom of God on the earth. I love the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And I love His, the first presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve. They are a vehicle to help us to fully come unto Christ. Remember the centurion whose servant is healed? One of the things that Gentile Roman soldier gets is authority. He gets authority. Because Jesus says, I’ll come and heal him. He says, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I’m a man who has authority. I say do this and they do it. You just need to say the word. I know who you are.

                                           00:41:52             He’ll be healed. And then Jesus like, I have not seen this kind of faith. No, not in all Israel. What does he get? What he gets is authority. One of the things we have in the kingdom of God is authority. You’ve got to understand what authority is.

John Bytheway:               00:42:07             Ross, one of the pictures in the manual for our Thoughts to Keep in Mind is one of my favorite paintings. The first time I saw it, it was in Kirtland where people with authority and keys appeared in the Kirtland Temple and restored keys of what? One of them was Moses restoring gathering of Israel.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:42:29             That’s exactly what we’re talking about. Another area in terms of this phrase, “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.’“, is agency. He’s inviting people to come home. There’s not gonna be compulsion or dominion or force. I thought a lot in the last little bit about the phrase, “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.’“. He’s inviting you to come home. And if you don’t want to do that, then that’s your choice. That’s what he’s been doing going back to Genesis 12 that Hank brought up earlier. You’re gonna be a blessing to all nations. Why? Because we’re gonna invite everybody on both sides of the veil to come home. We’re gonna that and we’re not gonna force people. And Hank, you’re comment with your son to do missionary work. Have him read this and it, if it means something to you, great. Let’s go. And if it doesn’t, then that’s between you and the Lord.

                                           00:43:22             We’re gonna move on.

Hank Smith:                      00:43:23             It’s almost like the Book of Mormon is a Israel detector, right? Just beep beep beep beep beep beep.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:43:28             An Israel detector. Or I would even say a soft heart detector. Yeah. People at different times might be in a different place, right? So, somebody might reject it at one point in their life, then it changes their life at another point. And the first half of my mission, I felt bad that everybody I had met didn’t get baptized. I felt like I must be not doing a good job. Then I had this turning point at about the halfway point where I realized my message was to invite people to come home. I was gonna invite them to use their agency. And if they didn’t want to, and if I was doing my best, that wasn’t on me. And I love how Preach My Gospel says that your success as a missionary is not how many baptisms you got. It’s not that.

                                           00:44:12             It’s about what kind of missionary you were, what you became and how you invited people. I think that phrase is doing just that.

John Bytheway:               00:44:20             You’re helping the Lord fulfill his promise to go invite everyone. So, they may not accept the invitation, but you’re fulfilling the Lord’s promise. We’re gonna invite you. I love it.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:44:31             This is the beauty of God’s work. In the process of being yoked with God to invite Israel to come home, you are bringing yourself home. In other words, it’s the process of… So, what’s happening with Hank, your son, and John, you said your daughter got her mission call?

John Bytheway:               00:44:50             Yeah.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:44:50             In the process of bringing people to Christ, we bring ourselves to Christ. I love it in 3rd Nephi, when he stands there and says, do you have any sick among you? Bring them to me. And I always say to the class, isn’t that weird that Jesus didn’t go to that blind guy over there? Jesus just stands and bring that blind guy to me. Isn’t that kinda selfish? Like why won’t the savior go to that blind guy? Then we look at the verse carefully and, well, no, we’re bringing those people. We have a part to play.

                                           00:45:18             And I believe that even if I wasn’t outwardly halt or lamed or blind or deaf, we all have a wound concealed. And if I’m bringing other people to Christ, I’m healed in the process.

John Bytheway:               00:45:31             Mm-hmm. Love it.

Hank Smith:                      00:45:33             I’ve noticed in Genesis 12 where the very first mention of this with Abraham. Abraham has one job and the Lord has a bunch. He says, Abraham, get you away from that country, your kindred, and from your father’s house. I will show you the land. I will make you a great nation. I will make you a blessing. I will bless them that bless the, in the, I will bless all the families of the earth. We do have a role to play.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:46:00             The Lord’s gonna empower you. In our Come Follow Me that we did with the Deuteronomy chapters, there’s a passage that I love where it says, I’m going to be the one who’s gonna give you power to get wealth, to establish my covenant. Think about that. I’m gonna give you power to get wealth. It’s not you. You gotta acknowledge God. So, if you’re prospering and you’re getting wealth, to what end? It’s not that you can’t have a nice home or just have the things, but in the end, it’s to be able to establish the covenant. It’s to be able to further the work of God. It’s so that temples can be built and the work of salvation and exaltation can be brought about upon the earth. That’s in the end what it’s about. And I think that’s really cool. The other phrase here is when he says, come home. So home.

                                           00:46:51             I was thinking about that. Have you guys ever heard the phrase, “You can never go home?” Have you guys ever heard that? Like somebody says, “If you leave on a mission, you know, you’re never gonna quite be able to come home again.” And there’s this idea you can’t come home. So, in the great myth stories, like, for example, in the Lord of the Rings, after Frodo has gone through his experience, when he goes back to the shire, not the same. Even though geographically it’s the same because he’s so radically changed, he actually doesn’t eventually stay in the shire. Remember that? He can’t stay there. He can’t be there. I think that’s super interesting because the phrase in Hebrews chapter 11:13 and section 45 verse 13 is that we are pilgrims and strangers here. When he’s calling us to come home, I’ve been thinking a lot about each word, each phrase.

                                           00:47:47             What’s he calling us to do? It’s, we’re strangers and pilgrims here. Sometimes the problem is we, we get to like it too much, but we have to remember we’re strangers and pilgrims. This is not home. Now, I’m gonna tell you, when I read the Book of Mormon the first time and I prayed about it and I felt the Holy Ghost bearing testimony to my spirit, the very first thought that came to my mind was I’m home. The Holy Ghost Spirit to Spirit communication with my spirit. And I’m telling you, as an 18-year-old, my very first thought was, it’s home. I’m home. When “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.’“, I don’t think he’s talking about a mortal location as much as he’s talking about that companionship with the gift of the Holy Ghost and the companionship with God and his people. That’s what he means.

                                           00:48:47             Then eventually I think it’s actually eternal home.

John Bytheway:               00:48:51             I love that. And I’ve heard a lot of people who have expressed this similar thought about I felt like I was coming home when they restored gospel was explained to them or something. Maybe that’s that Holy Ghost feeling of comfort, security, familiarity. The word family is part of the word familiarity. There’s this feeling of home and family. Yeah. I love that.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:49:15             Yep. This idea of we’re inviting people and if they’ll feel that, allow themselves. In 1st Corinthians chapter two in verse 13, Paul talks about the spirit of God, the spirit of man, and how do we know the things of God? And I, you guys know the verses, and our listeners do as well, that the things of God are only known by the spirit of God. We are so drenched in the world where we only can know things by our five senses. It’s our five senses in reason. But Paul says the natural man cannot receive the things of the spirit of God for remember what he said verse 14. They are foolishness unto him. Neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. He says something in verse 13 that we’ve received the spirit of God and now we can compare spiritual things with spiritual.

                                           00:50:07             Now let me tell you what I think he means there. I think he’s saying that, John, when you and I have a conversation, because I know you felt the Holy Ghost, we can talk about that. But if you’re talking to somebody who’s never felt or never recognized that they felt the Holy Ghost, it’s a very difficult conversation to have. You can’t compare spiritual things with spiritual. What we’re inviting people to do is to actually have an experience. Hank, you brought up that the Book of Mormon becomes the sign or the instrument by which we can do that. If they’ll read the Book of Mormon and study the Book of Mormon and then take the invitation to talk to God and allow themselves to get out of only knowing things by their five senses or reason, that there is another facility or faculty by which we can know things and that’s the Holy Ghost.

                                           00:51:00             Until you’ve had that experience, what I’m saying right now is foolishness. It means nothing to them. They can’t understand it. But if they’ll have a soft enough heart to take the invitation, then we can compare spiritual things with spiritual. I think that’s an amazing thing.

Hank Smith:                      00:51:17             I had a conversation with Elder Christofferson. It’s been a lot of years now. We were with a handful of missionaries and their dads. And my nephew invited me because his dad had no interest in going. Someone asked, “Elder Christofferson, what advice do you have for these missionaries?” The first one was fun. He said, don’t do dumb things. You have the name of the church on your badge. So he told the story of a missionary that climbed up on a Buddha and they took a picture and a missionary ended up going to prison for a little while and set the work back. And he said, just don’t do dumb things. Then he said something that really surprised me. He said, if someone is not taking the Book of Mormon seriously, you can move on. Which was surprising to me, but then over the years has made perfect sense.

                                           00:52:03             The Book of Mormon is the tool.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:52:05             That’s the tool. Perfect sense. That is beautiful. I had an experience, various experiences with people, but we had a family we taught. It was my companion, Elder Jones, and I. And we were in this town called Mar del Plata. Interestingly, this doesn’t often happen. The man was interested, but the wife wasn’t. It was usually the reverse. I don’t know if you guys had that experience as well. In fact, she like screamed at us and basically got a broom and chased us out of her house. I thought, okay, all right, that’s a bummer. We’re never going back there. Like, I don’t want to have that experience again. And it was a couple months, and I think Elder Jones said, “Hey, why don’t we go talk to those people? ” Like, “Are you sure, man? That lady came at us with a broom, man.” We went back and we clapped the door because you don’t knock on doors in Argentina.

                                           00:52:53             So we clapped and she came out and I was like, “uh-oh.” And she’s like, come in, come in. She’d been reading the Book of Mormon. Heart was softened and she was like, I am ready. Anyway, she got baptized, her family got baptized. Her husband later passed away. She had three daughters and they stayed active. Then the interesting part of the story is my son interned for a law firm in Buenos Aires. And then this is 25 years later, maybe even a little longer. And my son says, “Hey, dad, where should I go to church?” I go, “Hey, get on a bus, go to Mar del Plata. I want you to go to church there.” And he’s like, “Okay.” So, he goes to church in Mar del Plata. And he stayed at a friend’s house and then went to this particular ward. I didn’t even tell him which ward to go to, but he went to this particular ward and she was there.

                                           00:53:40             Cause he introduced himself as a visitor. She said, Baron, who’s your dad? And he said, Ross Baron. And he baptized me. He taught our family. Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:53:51             Ah, man.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:53:52             That to me is this idea, these kind of experiences of coming home and Jesus is coordinating again that incredible, powerful work, organizing all of it.

John Bytheway:               00:54:04             I have my very favorite quotation, modern prophet that anybody’s ever said ever. And I reserve the right to change my mind next week if I find another one. But my very favorite thing I’ve ever heard anybody say ever, “When you get to heaven,” this is just a dumb poem. “You will likely view many folks whose presence there will be a shock to you. But keep it very quiet. Do not even stare. Likely there’ll be many folks surprised to see you there. You got reaped. You were… Yeah.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:54:38             Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:54:38             The idea, what might surprise you when you get to the other side? First time I heard that it was President Eyring used it in a talk in 1991, but actually came from a talk of President Ezra Taft Benson called Jesus Christ Gifts and Expectations that he gave in 1975 at BYU. He said this, my favorite thing I’ve ever heard anybody say, speaking of home, he said, nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our father and how familiar his face is to us. It reminds me of something Brigham Young said similar, but with more Brigham Young sound to it. He said, still we, unless the vision of the Spirit open to us, know nothing about God. You know much about Him if you did but realize it. And there is no other one item that will so much astound you when your eyes are opened in eternity as to think that you are so stupid in the body.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:55:43             That is very Brigham sounding.

John Bytheway:               00:55:45             I like the way President Benson said it. Not only will it surprise you, but nothing will surprise you more than how well you know your Heavenly Father and how familiar his face is to you. And that’s the home that we’re talking about because we’re strangers here. And that’s the hymn, O My Father. Something whispers, you’re a stranger here.

Hank Smith:                      00:56:07             Ross, I think knowing this story of the scattering and the gathering can answer a lot of questions that people have. For example, many people have said, “Well, if this was really the Lord’s church, wouldn’t it be a lot bigger.” If you understand this, there’s phases to this gathering. What phase are we in right now? Like I know it’s hard to say, but what would you say?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:56:35             I was addressing that earlier. I think we’re definitely not in phase one or phase two. We are in a different phase right now. In the April General Conference, they reported the 2025 convert baptisms were 385,000. That’s 32,000 approximately convert baptisms per month. That’s 10 stakes per month. Okay? That is astronomical to me.

Hank Smith:                      00:57:04             How do you keep up?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:57:05             I just saw an interview on YouTube with Elder Clark G. Gilbert of the Quorum of the 12 with the Area Presidency in a particular area in South Africa where the church is growing so fast that, like we said earlier, the biggest issue there is managing the growth, training leaders and understanding how to manage the kingdom of God in that part of the vineyard. I think we are on the cusp of even greater and bigger things because think about it, 385 temples, over 100,000 missionaries.

                                           00:57:38             You were joking a little bit, but you said, Hank, there’s more seasoned Latter-day saints on the other side of the veil than on this side of the veil right now. That’s true. That means, and President Oaks said this, there are more people with experience and missionary work on the other side of the veil. When you think about the scale of the work on the other side of the veil and the need for those people on the other side of the veil who are actually trying to influence people on this side of the veil to do God’s work, and families and the spirit of Elijah that’s working on people. I think we’re on the cusp of something. Now, we’re not fully in China because we’re not recognized there and we’re never gonna do it unless we’re fully legal and recognized. But you all know that there are people who are legally members of the church in China who don’t violate the laws there and we don’t violate the laws either and we never will.

                                           00:58:36             But it’s ready. When it’s ready, there will be, in my view, an avalanche of great people there. Then when we have another podcast, we’ll say there’s gonna be a lot more people that are joining the church than 385,000 in a year. Again, I think that number is astronomical. That doesn’t count children of record baptisms. I think we’re at a half a million in 2025 people, including children of record, eight-year-olds who were baptized and then convert baptisms. Seems like a very large number to me, but the Lord’s doing his work.

Hank Smith:                      00:59:08             Right. Measured growth.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:59:11             But accelerating the momentum. I wanna make sure we get that. God’s hastening his work and accelerating the momentum. He’s using the technology. He’s using the gifts that we have to be able to further his work, again, on both sides of the veil.

John Bytheway:               00:59:27             When we talk about rapid growth as a problem–isn’t that an awesome problem?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:59:32             Isn’t that a great problem? Isn’t that an awesome problem when I cannot find a seat in any temple around me to be able to go do an endowment?

Hank Smith:                      00:59:43             I know.

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:59:43             I can’t do it. Honestly, I mean, I’ve gone… If I’m making a reservation, I actually cannot find a seat.

Hank Smith:                      00:59:50             Ross, are we still in the gathering the gatherer’s phase?

Dr. Ross Baron:                00:59:53             I think we’re overlapping. I think we’re overlapping. We’re not officially going to Jews. Okay? So, there’s no official mission to Jews. We’re still in the gathering of the Gentiles and we’re still in the gathering of the larger house of Israel. There will be a time under the direction of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 when we will go to Jews. That’s clear. By the way, are Jews baptized? Sure. There’s people that are Jewish that are baptized and who find the truth and that’s awesome. And I should be clear on this podcast, we do not proselyte to the state of Israel. There’s no proselyting going on in the Jerusalem Center. We are absolutely strict in keeping our promises made to the state of Israel. There’s no Book of Mormon that’s translated officially into Hebrew by the church. That’s not something that the church participates, at this point, because we wanna be hyper careful.

                                           01:00:47             Again, we keep our agreements, we keep what we–we’re true to our word and we’re gonna abide by the laws. Hank, are we gathering Israel? Yeah. Are we gathering Gentiles? Yeah. It’s getting on a larger and larger scale.

Hank Smith:                      01:01:01             And the gathering continues after the Lord?

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:01:04             This is a fun one. I teach Jesus Christ and the Everlasting Gospel and we talk about the millennium. I’ll walk into class and I’ll show them a quote, a couple different quotes from prophets that there’s gonna be major missionary work during the millennium. And they’re all like, wait.

John Bytheway:               01:01:16             What?

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:01:17             There’s people that are not of our faith on the earth during the millennium. Yeah. Wait, how’s that possible? And we go through that the millennium is a terrestrial state. So, the good, honorable people of the earth abide the day. That means Buddhists and Hindus and Taoists and, and Evangelicals and Jews and atheists who are good, honorable people will be on the earth during the millennium. We’ll then be doing missionary work. It might look a lot different than the way we do it now, but we’re gonna be doing missionary work. I want Joseph to be my companion when we share the first vision. I think that’ll be fun. I’m gonna let Elder Smith here. Anyway, um, we’re gonna do missionary work in the millennium so the gathering will continue. And not just during the millennium, but the gathering continues in the spirit world. That’s what’s going on in the spirit world.

                                           01:02:07             We’re knocking on spirit world doors and we are inviting people to come unto Christ because we’re telling them that “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.'” . Like he’s inviting them on that side of the veil. First Peter chapter four, verse three, they’re gonna be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. That’s what’s gonna happen. And that’s what’s going on this very moment.

Hank Smith:                      01:02:31             Genesis chapter 12, he intends to bless all the families of the earth. That might take a while. This is still a one by one. You have to be converted. It’s not an automatic thing.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:02:42             No. It’s a one by one thing and each person counts. So, John 4, it says Jesus must go through Samaria. And I always like to say, why? I think it’s for one woman who’s at a well. One woman at a well. He can talk to her. Then what does she do? She goes out and spreads the gospel. And then what happens in Acts chapter eight? They have a huge harvest of souls in Samaria and Peter, John, and John are sent up there to give them the gift of the Holy Ghost. It must need to go through Samaria because he’s gonna talk to one woman who’s not even like full blood Israel. It’s one by one. The work’s going on. The work will continue to go on. And by the way, I’m gathered, but like my story about the wheat and the tares, am I fully gathered?

                                           01:03:34             I hope I am, but there’s work to be done with me in terms of me fully coming onto Jesus Christ. Remember when he shows up to the Nephites? These are the ones who are spared. And he says, you guys need to repent and come unto me and be converted and be healed. And I’m like, wait, wait, what? I think the idea of fully being gathered is ongoing in my own life, who am a devout Latter-day Saint.

John Bytheway:               01:04:02             President Oaks gave that talk the challenge to become because that’s the ongoing personal gathering. I’m becoming. I know what to do. Now I have to do what I know. And when I know what to do and I do what I know, I begin to become. The process is ongoing as I invite Christ to come in and change my life and change my heart. I keep becoming because I think when you said you would be reaped, I though, yeah, so would I.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:04:32             I can’t say it about anybody else, but the Spirit definitely told me I’d be reaped. And I was like, ugh, that hurts. Okay,

John Bytheway:               01:04:37             Let’s skip this part. Yeah.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:04:39              Let’s skip this tare part.

Hank Smith:                      01:04:41             Ross, speaking to the Old Testament, why does the Lord, why doesn’t he give up on Israel and go to a new family? Because the story of the Old Testament is really, you’re gonna be the family that blesses all the families of the earth, okay go. And they’ve… It’s a disaster almost every time. I mean, a little bit. So every once in a while, they hit it. But for the most part, they don’t do it. And He even says, okay, we’re gonna have a scattering. It’s gonna be a couple thousand years.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:05:08             We’re gonna, we’re gonna try again. Yeah, we’re good. I’m playing the long game here. Read Jacob five. One of my responses to that, I think it’s a profound doctrinal revelation and that’s premortality. I think without the knowledge of premortality, there’s things we don’t get. Israel was chosen to do the work of God, not here, but before we came here. The Lord is gonna keep his promises and he’s gonna keep working with his people because he promised that you guys are gonna be the one I’m gonna work with to accomplish my purposes. That’s how I respond to that. I’ve been asked that in class. You know, like, why doesn’t the Lord just, like, choose some other people? Because they’re not doing a great job. The answer is no. We made choices. Those things are being played out. I would also say, I don’t know if we fully know.

                                           01:06:00             I think that’s one part of the reason. Another one is God’s doing his work, his way with his power. His ways are higher than my ways. And I don’t know everything.

John Bytheway:               01:06:12             Israel was chosen to be Israel before they showed up on the planet.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:06:16             Yeah. Harold B. Lee, in his opening address as the president of the church, basically the whole talk is about Israel premortality chosen that we have to carry out that responsibility. This goes back to, again, Hank’s brought up multiple times Genesis chapter 12, that we’re Abraham’s seed. We are Israel’s seed. I have a job to do. I have a responsibility. I have to realize this is, again, Hank, your point about, like, once I get who I am, man, I can now go do that work with a fullness and a purpose of heart that I couldn’t otherwise have gotten. And I’ll get distracted by cool things on earth. And then I start to forget I’m a stranger and a pilgrim here. I forget that. I think, again, God wants us to enjoy men are that they might have joy, but that joy comes when we are fully yoked in the service of God.

Hank Smith:                      01:07:06             To me, this is one of the testimonies of the prophet Joseph Smith. I don’t know, maybe it’s just me. If I was gonna start a church in Joseph’s day and I wanted to get a lot of people involved, I’d probably write the book of Peter or another book of John. But instead, he’s writing the book of Moses and the book of Abraham. I don’t know if that would come to mind, especially he’s a young adult, right? He’s in his early 20s. He’s like, I got more to say about Abraham.

John Bytheway:               01:07:33             What?

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:07:34             Yeah, we’re gonna do some more stuff on Abraham. And everyone’s like, Mm, okay?

Hank Smith:                      01:07:39             Is he a major player in this? We’re looking for a New Testament church. And you’re talking about Abraham?

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:07:45             Do you know who Jan Shipps is?

John Bytheway:               01:07:47             She’s a scholar about the Latter-day Saints.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:07:50             Right. So, I was on a committee with Jan Shipps when I taught at the Claremont Institute, and I lived down there in Claremont. She is a scholar or was, she’s passed away about Latter-day Saints. Amazing woman. She was incredible. And she knew everything about the church. By the way, she would carry around a book of Mormon, fully marked. She would go to general conference. Elder Oaks, then Elder Oaks referred to her as our beloved Gentile, which is kind of a fun thing for him to say. She loved the church. I was on this committee with her and she’s like about four feet 10 or four feet 11. She was an older woman. She was fiery and loved the church. And like I said, read the Book of Mormon. She talked about these phases that I kinda like. She said, phase one, 1820 to early 1830s was the return of the New Testament church. Then she said, phase two was when they started talking about the Old Testament, Melchizedek, and Abrahamic type things. And then she said, phase three was the fullness of the temple endowment.

                                           01:08:59             Then Joseph is then taken. That was her insight. I’ll tell you one other Jan Shipps story. We had a decision, this was at the Claremont Colleges. They wanted to establish a chair for studies of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is there now-it’s established. She gave a talk about are we Christian? Are Latter-day Saints Christians? I remember I was on the committee and I always remember like, oh my word. I was like, they’re gonna come out and they’re gonna be like, they’re gonna take pot shots at her. Like it’s gonna be harsh. So, we had this huge meeting and all these people came. Jan Shipps was the speaker. Remember, she’s like 4’10. She gives this talk and she’s like, Latter-day Saints are Christians. They believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ. She’s just amazing. Then she did a Q&A. And I was like, oh, no.

                                           01:09:44             Here it comes. These anti’s get up and they start attacking her. And grandma just came on fire and just responded like, whoa. It was incredible. And then I had this epiphany again. I realized she’s doing more for the kingdom outside of the church than if she were in the church. There’s this statement by Orson F. Whitney where he’s saying, God’s using more than one people to accomplish his work. I remember thinking, wow. Do you remember the Orson F. Whitney quote? He temporarily veils the truth to some people in order to bring about his purposes. So anyway, I got to witness that. But she was part of, if we wanna connect it back to Jesus saying all Israel, come home. She invited people in a very powerful way and testified of the truthfulness without being a member of the church.

Hank Smith:                      01:10:35             That’s another answer to that question I asked you previously, which was a critic might say, oh, the church should be bigger if it’s really the Lord’s church. He’s working with everyone. Especially those who are willing to let him prevail.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:10:48             Exactly. And that statement, the church should be a bigger church if it was the Lord’s church. Is that true? Is that historically true? Was that true when Jesus was on earth? If Jesus is the Christ, shouldn’t everyone have accepted him? No, because why? John chapter 3:18 through 21. They love darkness more than they love light because their deeds were evil. They don’t want anything to do with Jesus. The whole assumption behind that question is weird to me and is not scriptural.

Hank Smith:                      01:11:14             It’s a very Luke 24 moment. Oh, ye fools. Do you not read?

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:11:17             Oh ye fools. Ye slow of hearts, right? Slow to understand. Yeah, to believe. Yeah, like, what the world? Yeah. Cause even the disciples on that road to Emmeus don’t recognize Jesus.

Hank Smith:                      01:11:29             Yeah. Ross, don’t you think knowing this story can empower a missionary who’s facing rejection? You said it earlier, you’re thinking, why isn’t everybody getting baptized? Well, we’re doing a difficult work. The gathering is a difficult thing.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:11:47             Remember Elder Holland when he said, it was hard for Jesus. It’s gonna be hard for us. I think that’s a wake-up call. I don’t know about you guys. One of the biggest wake-up calls for me was when my companion and I taught a family and the spirit of God was like a fire burning and they bore testimony to us. Then when we came back for our follow-up appointment, they wanted nothing to do with us. They said at the door, we know what you told us is true. We don’t wanna change. Don’t ever come back. I’m gonna be honest, that put me in a funk for about two weeks. That was hard for me. I never ever thought it never had crossed my mind that if somebody knew the truth, they wouldn’t wanna obey it. And these people made a conscious decision and told us in a conscious way, we know what you said is true.

                                           01:12:35             We don’t wanna change. Don’t ever come back. And I remember thinking, “Whoa, that’s different to me.” That’s Hank, what you were saying when that guy’s like, “Well, the church would be bigger.” Well, the natural man is an ending with God and has been and will be forever and ever. Until you what? You yield to the enticings of the Holy Ghost.

John Bytheway:               01:12:54             It’s reported that Mother Teresa said this. I don’t have the source, but I’ve always loved it. It’s reported that she said, “We are not called to be successful in all things. We’re called to be faithful in all things.” You’re inviting. We’re looking for Israel.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:13:09             Mother Theresa also said people would criticize her. You can’t help the millions and tens of millions of people that are poor in India. And she goes, “I can help one.”

John Bytheway:               01:13:17             And she did what she could. She has done what she could. What is that amazing statement of Jesus?

Hank Smith:                      01:13:23             A reporter once saw her helping a leper, and he said, oh, I wouldn’t do that for a million dollars. And she looked at him and said, neither would I. Ross, now I’ve been on the earth long enough to notice some change. It seems to me that President Nelson accelerated the work by saying we need to focus more on this story. Not that before him, anybody was doing anything wrong. I just think his role when it came was to, was to hone in on or put the gas on this scattering, gathering story. Did you see that when, as you watched him?

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:13:57             On the scattering, on the gathering, on covenants, on all these aspects and of being like an exacto blade, razor sharp. This is what we’re doing. This why we’re on earth. Remember that line? If you wanna be part of something big, I love that. You can be part of it. And it’s the most important work. But he was razor sharp about that. Like we talked about earlier. The cohort who’s coming from premortality into these physical bodies now, are people prepared to hear that message? It resonated with them and he felt inspired to do that. If you look at the way prophets have been, Book of Mormon, okay, now we’re gonna focus on the Book of Mormon. Then these things, Howard W. Hunter, nine months he’s the prophet. What does he focus on? Have a current temple recommend. Have a current temple recommend. What’s that in preparation for?

                                           01:14:45             Gordon B. Hinkley. We’re gonna explode temple building. Every prophet is being led and guided and directed so that the work is going to progress according to the measured pace that God is doing his work.

Hank Smith:                      01:15:01             And President Monson, wouldn’t you say as well, humanitarian work?

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:15:05             Humanitarian. We’re gonna add caring for those in need. We’re not His church if we don’t care for people in need. But by the way, I wanna say this on caring for those in need. No one does it better. No one. The other day in class, we were talking about fast offerings and some kids, you know, totally didn’t understand it. We went through the handbook about what a fast offering is. And I said this question, “What percentage of that dollar goes to the person in need?” And they were like, “What?” I said, “If I gave a dollar to fast offering, what percentage of that dollar goes to the person in need?” Somebody said, “100 cents on the dollar.” And I was like, “100% true. That’s correct. There’s no administrative fee taken off the top. No one gets an executive fee taken off the top. No one does this better than the church and Jesus Christ through his servants. No one.

Hank Smith:                      01:15:51             You said earlier the $1.6 billion dollars. And we also need to talk about the 7.4 million hours. It’s not just let’s throw money at a problem. It’s people investing their time into these projects.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:16:08             But here’s something else not included. It’s local wards using fast offerings. That’s not part of the humanitarian effort. We have 33,000 wards or something like that. And there’s a bishop of every ward who’s given the keys. People might not understand this either. The First Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 don’t dictate who gets welfare service in a ward. The stake president. Now you counsel with the stake president on some issues, but it’s the bishop who decides under this guidance and direction of the Holy Ghost and oftentimes in council with maybe the Relief Society president or others. But in the end, that’s administered locally to bless the lives of both non-members and members within those boundaries. People don’t often realize that either. If you’re not a member, a bishop can use fast offerings to bless the lives of those not of our faith. That’s not included in the 1.6 billion.

                                           01:16:58             It’s not in that number.

Hank Smith:                      01:16:59             Tithing was never meant to do that. It was fast offerings that were meant to…

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:17:03             It’s fast offerings. That’s not tithing.

Hank Smith:                      01:17:06             Ross, what happens if a ward doesn’t have enough fast offerings to cover the need of the ward?

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:17:12             Let’s go with the surplus. Let’s say at the end of the year, we haven’t spent our fast offering. Then that would go to the stake fast offering surplus or to the general fast offering surplus of the church. If a ward has a deficit, that would then be taken from either the stake or from the general fast offerings of the church. When you’re paying fast offerings, say, for example, in your ward in, in a prosperous ward, in all likelihood, that’s going to bless people worldwide. That fast offering might not be used in your ward, but it’s gonna be blessing people worldwide.

Hank Smith:                      01:17:46             I wonder how much money that is. I don’t know. It’s not part of tithing. It’s not part of humanitarian aid. It’s kept quiet.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:17:54             Yeah, it’s kept quiet. I mean, I know what my ward does, but I’m not gonna divulge that and I know how that works. But I will tell you that my YSA ward, so I’m talking about young people, super generous and very consecrated. We have a surplus every single month in our ward that goes to bless people worldwide.

Hank Smith:                      01:18:13             And I know they don’t have much. Man, no.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:18:16             They don’t have much. And I tell them, I go, look, the minimum is the two meals you went without. Calculate that. It’s between you and the Lord.

John Bytheway:               01:18:22             I love the genius of what you just described, Ross, that a bishop is going to sit across the desk or in a chair. It’s a one by one thing you mentioned before, Hank. We’re gonna ask for inspiration and see what do you need? What is the best way to actually help with this situation? Instead of somebody in an office with a machine that writes checks, you’re gonna sit and talk about what do we need the Lord to do? What do we need the church to do for you? What do you need to do, do you think? I’ve been a part of those discussions and have received help, I’ll tell you. And what a genius way to do it one by one.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:19:04             It’s one of the greatest things. We could have an episode on that. It’s actually part of the marvelous work and a wonder. How that we take care of those in need is part of the marvelous work and a wonder. I wrote a letter to the President of the United States. I literally did. I laid out how we could solve the problem in the United States of America if we would implement what the church is doing. I had it edited. My wife looked at it. We all looked at it. Oh, this is great. I never got a response. But I think it should be implemented and it’s shocking. Yeah. It’s incredible.

Hank Smith:                      01:19:35             Listen to this from Elder Christofferson talking about what the church does to help the poor. He’s talking about someone who’s unemployed. As days lengthen into weeks and months and even years of adversity, the hurt grows deeper. The church cannot hope to save a man on Sunday if during the week, it is a complacent witness to the crucifixion of his soul. Ross, I have another question for you. And this goes back to what we talked about when you were with us in 3rd Nephi. I hope everyone will go listen to that. This is an extension of that conversation. You said something that really helped me understand a phrase we see in scripture quite a bit and that is that the sons of Levi do offer again unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. That’s something that I’ve seen in scripture and thought, I don’t know what that means, but my–sounds like a good, like a gift. That they’re gonna offer the Lord a gift. Can you get excited about that again and just do a brief summary of what you said then?

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:20:31             The idea of the sons of Levi, of course, is tapping into this idea of the Old Testament. They’re the people that can minister ordinances in the temple. In Section 84 of the Doctrine Covenants and the Oath and Covenant, we’re told when we receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, we become the sons of Levi. All we’re the Melchizedek priesthood holders, whatever your tribe, you become sons of Levi. Hence, we can officiate in the temple. Hence, one of the reasons you have to be ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood as a male before you can be endowed is so you can officiate in the ordinances of the temple. Women are not ordained to the offices in the priesthood or conferred the priesthood upon them. But something about by virtue of being a woman, you do not have to have the priesthood conferred upon you, ordained to an office to go into the temple and to perform ordinances.

                                           01:21:24             Now, that has not been fully revealed why, but there’s something by virtue of being a woman that allows you to do things inside God’s house. I find that fascinating. And during the millennium, we can ask the Lord in our FAQ that question.

Hank Smith:                      01:21:42             I’ll be like, Ross is asking too many questions.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:21:45             Now here’s the top four questions. Evolution, age of the earth, dinosaurs. Is it foyer or foyer? And then there’ll be some other questions that –

John Bytheway:               01:21:53             Those are the big four. Yeah.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:21:56             And he’s gonna give us an FAQ pamphlet and say, never ask me these questions again. Cause I’ve answered them right here. Then we go into the temple. We perform these ordinances. The Lord then says, well, what’s the offering? It begs the question. Who are the sons of Levi? Okay, I’ve said Melchizedek priesthood holder. What’s the offering in righteousness? In Section 128 of the Doctrine Covenants, Joseph Smith writes a letter. At the end of that letter, he says, we have to offer the Lord again an offering in righteousness, which is a book of our dead worthy of all acceptation. So, the offering we offer in the latter days is not a blood sacrifice or killing an animal. It’s that we… What have we done? We have gathered Israel. We offer unto the Lord a book worthy of all acceptation, which is everything we could do on this side of the veil to be able to do the work of God and bring people to Jesus Christ.

                                           01:22:58             I don’t know the exact timing, but a couple years ago, the First Presidency asked, this was President Nelson, President Oaks, and President Eyring. They asked Elder Hamilton and his team to meet with them. And Elder Hamilton was the executive director over family history. He said, we’re concerned about oral histories in Africa being lost. I don’t know about you guys, but that’s not something I’ve been concerned about. That’s not on my radar. So the First Presidency invites Elder Hamilton in and they said, we’d like you to come back with a proposal. He meets with his team and he comes back with a proposal. It’s a budget allotment. They actually request that people be hired instead of volunteers because they want some Native Africans to go into these small villages. And each village has a rememberer. They don’t have written records. They have rememberers who keep in their minds like 20 generations–

John Bytheway:               01:23:46             Wow.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:23:47             Of everyone connected. It’s in their mind. Here’s the First Presidency, Peter, James and John being guided by the Holy Ghost. Elder Hamilton comes back and says, well, here’s our proposal. They make this proposal. They just finished their two millionth interview. They got hundreds of millions of names that are now in the database. I just think to myself, that is incredible. That is Jesus inviting all Israel to come home. That is part of that book worthy of all acceptation. What’s the offering that we make? It’s the offering of the people we’ve gathered via inviting all to come into Christ via missionary work here. It’s that book we’re gonna do of all of our dead. That’s how I understand the Sons of Levi offering and offering again unto the Lord in righteousness.

John Bytheway:               01:24:39             Beautiful.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:24:41             Jesus will invite all Israel to come home. And 3rd Nephi 20, the Saviors visit among the Nephites. Verse 13, “And then shall the remnants, which shall be scattered abroad upon the face of the earth”. Okay. John, you talked about scattered, gathered. Notice what the Lord says, “…which shall be scattered abroad upon the face of the earth, be gathered in from” where? From the east, from the west, from the south, and from the north. How will they be gathered? “…and they shall be brought to the knowledge of the Lord their God, who hath redeemed them.” They’re eventually brought to Jesus Christ and to that knowledge of Jesus Christ. The ultimate gathering isn’t about me moving to a particular place. It’s I am brought to Jesus Christ, the Lord my God who hath redeemed me. That is the work that’s going on right now.

John Bytheway:               01:25:35             We’re trying to find people who are willing to let God prevail. In our own hearts we can say, am I willing to let God prevail? I’ll go where you want me to go. I’ll do what you want me to do. I’ll be what you want me to be. No tall order. Easy to sing, harder to do. But be willing to let God prevail. That’s the goal.

Hank Smith:                      01:25:55             Ross, thank you for pointing that out. I had never made this connection before. John knows I have a little pet theory that the Book of Mormon was named after the Waters of Mormon. You just read 3rd Nephi 20:13, “…they shall be brought to the knowledge of the Lord their God, who hath redeemed them.” Mosiah 18:30. When was the church organized? 1830. Talks about all this was done in Mormon. The waters of Mormon, the forest of Mormon. The waters of Mormon, the place of Mormon, the waters of Mormon, the forest of Mormon. How beautiful are they? The waters of Mormon. To the eyes of them who? There came to the knowledge of their Redeemer. The Lord could be making a reference to the Book of Mormon in that verse you just read. “…they shall be brought to the knowledge of the Lord their God who hath redeemed them.”

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:26:44             That’s beautiful. That’s great.

John Bytheway:               01:26:47             “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.’“. Now they know who’s inviting them, right?

Hank Smith:                      01:26:53             That’s right. It’s all about the book. Man, that book.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:26:58             Yeah.

Hank Smith:                      01:26:58             John, before we go, can I read the last two paragraphs of the manual? This is beautiful. As one who has made a covenant with God, you are a part of the house of Israel. You have been gathered and you are a gatherer. The centuries-long, epic story of the covenant people is building to its climax, and you are a key player. Now is the time when “Jesus will say to all Israel, ‘Come home.'” This is the message of the gatherers: Come home to the covenant. Come home to Zion. Come home to Jesus Christ, the Holy One of Israel, and He will bring you home to God, your father.

John Bytheway:               01:27:38             So let’s do it. We’ve been invited home. Let’s gather the fam and let’s go home. Ross, we call it Thoughts to Keep in Mind, but my mind cannot contain all of Ross’s thoughts. I have a binder to keep in mind Ross’s thoughts. I wanna print out these show notes which we have on our website so that I can re-read these again. Thank you so much for being here today. What, what’s our next segment of Thoughts to Keep in Mind?

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:28:08             So we’re gonna be talking about an interesting and technical topic, but it’ll be super fun. It’s essentially Hebrew poetry. It’s kinda looking at the Psalms, Proverbs even a little bit. Then the writings of Isaiah who uses extensive Hebrew poetry. Jeremiah, not so much. Jeremiah’s not really doing that. Other minor prophets, we call them minor prophets. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel are considered the major prophets and then the minor prophets. Some of the minor prophets have extensive Hebrew poetry. It can be tricky because poetry in English, if you’re in your native tongue is tricky. It can be tricky. You gotta read a little slower and you have to look at what’s going on here. And it doesn’t always translate into the King James straight across. I actually think it’ll be super helpful and very fun and very interesting. Wonderful.

Hank Smith:                      01:29:03             Will you do a little bit of Hebrew for us then, Ross? Cause we love it when you go.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:29:07             You bet.

Hank Smith:                      01:29:07             Okay.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:29:07             No, I’m gonna get, get some “haching” going.

Hank Smith:                      01:29:10             Yeah.

John Bytheway:               01:29:10             Sounds super cool. Okay.

Dr. Ross Baron:                01:29:13             In fact, there’s some meter to Hebrew poetry. And interestingly, a lot of people don’t realize there’s some rhyme. Every now and then, Isaiah especially, he will rhyme things. So, he’ll find an obscure word. It’s funny because he’ll say something that everyone kinda gets and then he finds an obscure word because it rhymed. Then everyone’s like, whoa, like, okay, that worked.

Hank Smith:                      01:29:33             Fantastic.

John Bytheway:               01:29:35             Thank you so much. Thanks for tuning in everyone for another episode of Thoughts to Keep in Mind with Ross. We’ll have him back again as you just heard. Thanks again for joining us. We’ll see you soon on another episode of followHIM.

Hank Smith:                      01:29:48             As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we’d love to gift you the digital version of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. It offers short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episodes. Visit at followhim.co, that’s followhim.co to download your free copy today and you’ll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our followHIM family. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kabwika, Sydney Smith, and Annabelle Sorensen.