John Bytheway:               00:01                   Welcome to part two of Esther with Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 00:05        Let’s jump into chapter three. It’s actually pretty fun because now we get a new character. His name is Haman. I just encourage you to compare Haman with Mordecai. These are two different men, and there’s going to be some clear distinctions in leadership, I believe, between Haman and Mordecai. Starting in verse one, “After these things did King Ahasuerus promote Haman, the son of Hammedatha, the Agagite.” We know a little bit about him. We see that Haman is an Agagite. So this is a different country, different ruling. We don’t know why Haman has been promoted though. I wish we knew. I don’t know if he had something to do with saving the king here. Somehow he was involved. We just don’t know. We just know that he was promoted. We know that he’s advanced. And it says, “And set his seat above all the princes that were with him.” Something that Ahasuerus is seeing with Haman causes him to promote him, and now he’s in this very serious position of leadership, second only to the king.

                                           01:04                   We see in verse two, “And all the king servants that were in the king’s gate bowed and reverenced Haman.” Now we’re starting to see we have this man. He has just received a new responsibility. It’s back to section 121. I’ll just say this as a foreshadow. This man just got a whole level of authority and power. Let’s see what happens to him.

John Bytheway:               01:23                   Oh, boy.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 01:24        Oh, boy. So for the king had so commanded concerning him, but Mordecai bowed not, nor did him reverence. We have this person, Mordecai, we can see he has a backbone and everybody else is going to be bowing down to Haman. Mordecai refuses to bow. Then the king’s servants, which were in the king’s gate, said to Mordecai, why transgressest thou the king’s commandment? Now, it came to pass that when they spake daily unto him and he hearkened not unto them. It didn’t matter how many times they tried to get him down from the mountain, he wasn’t coming down from the mountain. It didn’t matter how many times they asked him to bow, he would not bow. He’s keeping to his guns. He knows the principles that he’s basing his life on, and he’s not going to budge and compromise his principle. They told Haman to see whether Mordecai’s matters would stand, for he had told them that he was a Jew.

                                           02:10                   Which brings in another, a whole nother element. Up to this point, Esther hasn’t said anything about being a Jew, but we know that Mordecai has. Mordecai has made that known. Esther has not made that known. And when Haman saw that Mordecai bowed not, nor did him reverence, Haman was full of wrath. Verse six, and he thought scorn to lay hands on Mordecai alone. It’s beginning to bug him so bad that he’s thinking about, what can I do to this guy? How can I get him alone? How can I hurt him? But they had showed him the people of Mordecai, wherefore Haman sought to destroy all the Jews that were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus, even the people of Mordecai. This is what people are warned of over and over and over again in the scriptures, especially in the Doctrine & Covenants, and especially when it comes to leadership and power and authority.

                                           02:52                   He’s not just bugged at one person. He’s going to destroy the whole Jewish, I mean, talk about going to extremes, right? This guy’s not going to bow to me, so I hate everyone that has anything to do with this. This is racism at its finest. This is what President Nelson and President Oaks have taught us so recently. Root out racism. And what’s interesting about Haman is he does have a wife, but he doesn’t have the right kind of wife. Apparently, again, I don’t want to judge his wife, but what you see in chapter six, you’re mentioning wife here. And Haman told Zeresh his wife and all his friends everything that had befallen him. We’ll have to go back to this to see what his wife says. Then said his wise men and Zeresh his wife unto him, if Mordecai be of the seed of the Jews before whom thou hast begun to fall, thou shalt not prevail against him.

                                           03:36                   Zeresh, his wife, is going to become pretty obnoxious. She’s actually going to say, yeah, go ahead. Let’s kill Mordecai. Let’s put him up and hang him. Who are you surrounding yourself with? Who are you marrying? Who is lifting and building? And these two, the husband and wife here, this is not a good couple. This is a couple who is prideful together. And that he goes back to his wife and tells them this story and she eggs him on in a negative way. They’re trying to decide what are they going to do? They go back to the king. We’re seeing this ugly flattery. There’s so much flattery that is associated with pride, but watch the flattery here. And Haman said into King Ahasuerus. There is a certain people. Notice he doesn’t even mention who the people are. “There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the people in all the provinces of thy kingdom, and their laws are diverse from all people.

                                           04:24                   Neither keep they the king’s laws. Therefore, it is not for the king to profit to suffer them. If it please the king, let it be written that they may be destroyed.” It’s so frustrating. Haman has one person that will not bow down to him, and instead of acknowledging to the king that there’s a man who won’t bow down to me, he’s putting that on the king and saying there are a number of people who are not being obedient to you. This is so destructive. He has convinced the king that people are against him, and in reality, no one is against the king. We’re going to see this for the next few chapters with Haman. His anger and his pride literally overtake his entire personality because one person will not bow down. He can’t let one person go.

Hank Smith:                      05:03                   And he doesn’t realize it. And this is a bit of a spoiler, but he has just sealed his own fate as he continues down this path. He thinks he’s winning.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 05:12        Yeah. Then we see that the king’s caught up in this, what? There’s somebody who’s not bowing down to me? Well, we already know how the king treats people who don’t bow down to him. He was just convinced by all these people that he was going to let his wife go. He’s delegating his power to someone else without actually understanding the situation, without finding out more on his own authority. And it says the king said into Haman, the silver is given to thee, so yes, go ahead. You have my permission. Then the king scribes wrote down basically this law. And if you jump over to the end of verse 12, he is able to write in the language in the name of King Ahasuerus was it written and sealed with the king’s ring. The letters were sent by the posts into all the king’s provinces to destroy, to kill, and to cause perish all the Jews, both young and old, little children and women in one day.” That’s just sick.

                                           05:59                   This is leadership at its worst. This is the opposite of peacemaking. President Hinckley has a great talk where he talks about how anger really can destroy a person, how anger causes people to end up in jail and in prison. The anger is not only taking away the agency of the people who are going to be killed or who are in line to be killed, but very clearly the anger is taking the agency of Haman. He cannot control himself right now. It’s changing him as a man.

Hank Smith:                      06:25                   The king is so disappointing here too. He’s the most powerful man in the kingdom and he has, you feel like he has zero control.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 06:34        It’s an extremely important point when it comes to leadership, especially with the church and families. We have to know our own power. We have to recognize our own authority. We have to recognize when a prophet is speaking or a bishop is speaking or a stake president or a Relief Society president or a father or a mother, it’s going to take different weight depending upon the power they’ve been given. A mission president can make a statement that will affect a missionary for good or bad for the rest of your life because of the trust level between the missionary and the mission president. The mission president learns, I need to be careful with how I use my words and how I guide and counsel.

Hank Smith:                      07:12                   He makes zero decisions for himself. The only decision I see him making is in chapter one when he wants Vashti to come parade out. When she doesn’t do that, he’s just really angry. But other than that, everyone else is telling him what decisions to make.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 07:29        To me, it seems that he has not based his leadership on principle. This is from President Kimball, and this is a very important point when it comes to leadership, Christlike leadership, covenant leadership. He says this, “Jesus operated from a base of fixed principles or truths rather than making up the rules as he went along. Thus, his leadership style was not only correct, but also constant. Jesus said several times, come, follow me. His was a program of do what I do rather than do what I say. His innate brilliance would have permitted him to put on a dazzling display, but that would have left his followers far behind. He walked and worked with those he was to serve. He was not a long-distance leadership. His was not a long-distance leadership. He was not afraid of close friendships. He was not afraid that proximity to him would disappoint his followers.” He’s a true leader. Jesus Christ leads based on principles. He’s not changing his principles based upon what his cohorts or his colleagues or his counselors are saying. The principles stand, stay the same regardless.

Hank Smith:                      08:29                   You’re helping me see here why Esther is so fearful to do what Mordecai asks because he is. The king is so unpredictable and so easily manipulated.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 08:39        You see this next part. Mordecai rents his clothes. He recognizes what’s happening. Sackcloth with ashes, we’re in chapter four now, went out in the midst of the city and cried with a loud and bitter cry. Mordecai, not only will he not bow down to Haman, but he is going to make a stir. It says, “And came even before the king’s gate, for none might enter into the king’s gate clothed with sackcloth.” He’s not sitting in a corner trying to save himself. He is going into the most public place in an area where he is going to be noticed. He’s in sackcloth and ashes. He’s making a scene, but he’s making a scene to save his people. Then it says in verse three, “And in every province, whithersoever the king’s commandment and his decree came, there was a great mourning among the Jews and fasting and weeping and wailing and many lay in sackcloth and ashes.” This is the scene that we have set up now.

                                           09:26                   All the Jewish people are going to be killed. They have the date. They have the paper. Mordecai knows about it. He is going to do everything in his power, which isn’t much. He doesn’t have a ring. He doesn’t have a say, but he does have a daughter. He’s going to take advantage of this moment putting himself in a position, fasting and praying, having other people help, but he’s going to use the person, not use in a negative way. He’s going to take advantage righteously of a person he has trusted and he has raised and he has loved and cared for so that he can save his entire people. Which then takes us into verse four. Verse four, we’re seeing Esther’s maids and her chamberlains came and told her. Then was the queen exceedingly grieved. Of course, Esther and Mordecai aren’t having a conversation. She just, she doesn’t even know what’s happening.

                                           10:12                   It doesn’t seem like she knows of this mandate that all of her family and friends and father are going to be killed, and frankly, even herself. She sent raiment to clothe Mordecai. It’s like he’s out there crying and fasting and wailing. He’s rent these clothes and now he’s wearing sackcloth and ashes. But she doesn’t know why. So she’s like, somebody take these clothes and go dress him. And it says, and to take away his sackcloth from him, but he received it not. So it seems like at this point, there’s something that’s going on. Esther’s starting to recognize there’s something seriously happening. Mordecai is making it very clear. There’s no way Esther cannot see that there’s a problem here. She needs to know and Mordecai needs her to know. Now there’s this critical relationship between a father and a daughter. These two are going to work together to save souls.

                                           10:54                   Then called Esther for Hatach, one of the king’s chamberlains, whom he had appointed to attend upon her and gave him a commandment to Mordecai to know what it was and why it was. She’s asking what is going on? Hatach went forth to Mordecai into the street of the city, which was before the king’s gate. And Mordecai told him all that had happened unto him and of the sum of money that Haman had promised to pay to the king’s treasures for the Jews to destroy them. You can see, oh my goodness, Esther is hearing this. Also, he gave him the copy of the writings of the decree that was given to Sushan to destroy them. Not only is she hearing it, he is giving her proof. Esther, everyone is going to be killed because of Haman. To show it unto Esther and to declare it unto her and to charge her, that she should go in unto the king to make supplication unto him and to make requests before him for her people.

                                           11:41                   Now, this is getting scary. There’s only one person that can change the mind of the king, and it is going to be Esther, his wife. And Hatach came in and told Esther these words of Mordecai, and Esther spake unto Hatach and gave him commandment unto Mordecai. So you can see, she has just been given a bombshell. Everything is happening. All of my people, everything that I have ever loved is about ready to be destroyed. But she recognizes, as you were just saying, this is a big deal. You don’t just walk into the king. He’s already deposed of his last wife. He’s not kidding. And he really does have power to destroy, and he has shown that he will.

                                           12:16                   This is what Esther sends back. All the king’s servants and the people of the king’s provinces do know that whosoever, whether man or woman, shall come unto the king into the inner court who is not called. There is one law of his to put him to death, except such to whom the king shall hold out the golden scepter, that he may live. But I have not been called to come in unto the king these 30 days. This is the letter that’s being sent. Mordecai, dad, do you understand that if I do what you ask me to do, the likelihood of me being killed is, like, close to 100%. You’re asking a lot. I just want you to know that there have been other virgins that have been killed on altars before. The last queen has been disposed of. We don’t even know what happens to her. We’ve seen the king acting in ways that are pretty scary, and he has a lot of men around him, and he’s very easily swayed. If any of these men sway the king in any way, I just want you to know, dad, I will die.

                                           13:14                   But here’s your letter. And they told Mordecai Esther’s words. Now we have this letter that’s being passed. I almost want to wait during this passing of the letter time. Sometimes I wondered if this servant would actually read the letter. I mean, I’m sure he’s a trusted person, but there’s this waiting time now. This is not text message. This is not a quick email to somebody. There’s this period of time where they’re both recognizing that literally their lives are on the line. They’re just now what? And I would imagine there’s this period of pondering. There’s a period of praying. There’s a period of understanding. There’s deep contemplation. Like President Oaks has just said, this is real for them. This is real.

Hank Smith:                      13:55                   Courage is not the absence of fear. It is feeling great fear and

John Bytheway:               14:00                   doing it anyway.

Hank Smith:                      14:01                   Yeah. Having great resolve. Wow.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 14:04        I think of Esther like, really? What do you do? It’s very scary. It’s Daniel and the lion’s den. I mean, do you keep praying out loud? Or do you stop?

Hank Smith:                      14:15                   Also, Barb, the amount of money that’s involved, I know that seems like, oh, that’s not a big deal. But to a king, to Haman, money changes people. It can cause you to do some things you maybe would never do. She probably knows who Haman is and the power that he has. This doesn’t sound like a guy you get in his way.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 14:35        If Haman’s sitting there and he says to King Ahasuerus, yeah, don’t let her talk. Well, she’s done. Because he falls for everything. It seems that whatever they can do to make the king prideful and make him worship himself, he’s going to do. Whatever benefits the king, it seems he’s going to do. And it’s so wise what Esther’s going to do in the future. But to get back to the story, then Mordecai commanded to answer Esther, think not with thyself that thou shalt escape in that king’s house more than all the Jews. Esther, they’re going to know you’re a Jew. By not saying anything, you’re not going to save yourself. You will die too. Regardless of what you choose, if you say nothing, you’re going to die. If you say something, you might die. I mean, there’s this risk that’s involved. The best risk really for her to take and the courage for her to take is to choose to go to him because she will die otherwise, and all of her family will die because she is a Jew.

                                           15:27                   I think it’s very tender when he says, “Think not thyself that thou shalt escape in the king’s house more than all the Jews. For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time then shall their enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jew from another place. But thou and thy father’s house shall be destroyed. Who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?” Esther, everyone’s counting on you now. Everyone, including me, and I love you dearly, and please help us. Clearly she has come to the kingdom for such a time as this.

Hank Smith:                      15:58                   I see Mordecai. He’s a fantastic mentor. Teaching, helping, shaping. But then the moment comes. And he’s, you can do this.

John Bytheway:               16:10                   It’s an interesting situation when there’s this law, as we read in verse 11, and she has seen it happen before. Others get killed just for approaching the king without permission.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 16:24        Oh, yeah. For most of us, we don’t ever have to go through this kind of extreme situation. But that very simple principle, who knows whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this. I hope we don’t go over that too quickly because there is a reason everyone was born on the earth when we were born on the earth. The families that we were born into, et cetera. If we all really thought about it, there is a reason why every single person, you who are listening, you are born for such a time as this. This is a make it or break it moment for such a time as this. There comes a time when you have to say, I’m either all in or I’m not all in.

                                           17:02                   I love this quote by Sharon Larsen. She says, “If we are going to lead in righteousness, there can’t be any question where we stand. Educating our desires so our standards are the Lord’s standards sends a clear message that in the Lord’s kingdom, there are no double standards. We have made covenants with the Lord and leading often tests the level of our commitment to those covenants.” I love that phrase. Leading often tests the level of our commitment to those covenants. We’re put in a position to make a decision. Then we understand how in we really are. Are we really going to follow through with this? Are we really going to follow the Spirit? This is her position right now.

Hank Smith:                      17:43                   President Nelson was a modern day Mordecai, don’t you think? Listen to this from the talk, The Hope of Israel. “If you choose to, if you want to, you can be part of it. You can be a big part of something big, something grand, something majestic.” He says, “Participating in the gathering of Israel will require some sacrifice on your part. It may even require some changes in your life. It will definitely take some of your time and energy and your God given talents. Are you interested?” Very much a, this is your moment.

John Bytheway:               18:18                   This recent high school graduation, I started seeing these pictures circulate of all of the young men and young women, seniors who had received mission calls, taking these huge pictures in front of the school, in front of the temple, I think, my daughter’s in one of them. And it’s like, wow, look at this. Look at how many of them. And I was marveling and my wife said, oh, a lot of schools are doing that. And they started showing all these pictures. Thinking of President Nelson’s talk, as you mentioned, this hastening the work. It is all happening. And I love the phrase, “You were sent for such a time as this.” The mission age being lowered for the sisters. Wow, look at them go at this time.

Hank Smith:                      19:06                   Back to President Nelson here. John, you’re right on. “This gathering should mean everything to you. This is the mission for which you were sent to earth.” That’s Mordecai in our day.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 19:17        If this is their mission, then what is the mission of their leaders? What’s the mission of the fathers and mothers? What’s the mission of the seminary teachers and the young men and young women leaders? We are the ones, the grandparents, we’re the ones who have been called to train them on how to do this. If they’re the ones that are doing it, and I hope that we’re the ones that are preparing them to do that. And preparation is a huge element of this story. Esther had to be prepared. It doesn’t say, who knows whether thou art come to the kingdom for such time as this, yes, she has come to the kingdom for such a time as this. There’s a lot of preparation that’s being done by Mordecai to get her to this point and by the Lord and by others to get her here. The question is, will she actually do it?

                                           19:55                   I think that that’s the question for so many. There’s a quote that I found by Lorenzo Snow that I think actually really hones this in for me. He says this, “In many instances of a similar nature where the destruction of the people of God seemed eminent and there appeared no way of escape, suddenly there arose something or other that had been prepared for their salvation to avert the impending destruction. We find this in the case of the Israelites when led by Moses. When they came to the Red Sea and the Egyptian army in their rear threatened their destruction, there seems no way of escape. But at the very moment when deliverance was required, behold, it appeared and they were delivered. So it has been and so it ever will be with us. Notwithstanding our difficulties may appear very great, yet there will be means provided for our escape if we ourselves perform the duties incumbent upon us as the children of God.

                                           20:43                   But it may become necessary in the future. And this is the point I wish to make,” he says, “For some of the saints to act the part of Esther, the queen, and be willing to sacrifice anything and everything that is required at their hands for the purpose of working out the deliverance of the Latter-day Saints.” I heard a wonderful story of a dear friend of mine recently who was offered an extremely lucrative position in her field. So much so that she actually called many people to give her feedback on whether or not she should take it. Many people wanted her to take it because it would put her in a leadership position that would be extremely influential and people wouldn’t even recognize her name in the church. It would be good for the church, so she thought. So she took it to the Lord. And her response was interesting that she felt the inspiration of the Spirit just saying, you can, but if you do, you will not be able to be a temple ordinance worker because you won’t have enough time. Which it sounds like a very random response, but she wasn’t a temple ordinance worker.

                                           21:46                   What she recognized was the Lord was saying to her, I think you ought to be a temple ordinance worker instead. She chose the temple. For such a time as this. The key is to follow the Spirit and do what is right with the Lord. For such a time as this is going to be different for every person. This is an interesting and extremely important point too for us. We said this at the beginning. What’s right for one person is not right for another person. You need to know what it is that the Lord wants you to do and what mission he has for you at this time in your life. Stay close to him and ask for such a time as this, because everybody has for such a time as this in their life. But don’t base it on what everybody else is doing. This has to be a vertical decision. This is you and the Lord.

Hank Smith:                      22:29                   If I perish, I perish. She’s grown up in a hurry.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 22:35        If I perish, I perish. If they kill me, they kill me. It’s Joseph Smith going into Carthage Jail. I go like a lamb to the slaughter. He’s expecting that he’ll be killed. For all we know, Esther was expecting to be killed. She’s just putting her life on the line. No different than of Joseph Smith was putting his life on the line. She is giving it all to the Lord, putting her entire soul on the altar and leaving it in his hands. For such a time as this for her, and she’s just going to see, what is the Lord going to do about it? For Abraham, the Lord saved him. But for those three virgins in the days of Abraham that Abraham was a witness to, they put their life on the altar and they died. But if not, I’m just going to trust the Lord. This is an Abinadi moment.

                                           23:12                   This is a Joan of Arc moment. These are those moments of who am I really? If they hate me, they hate me. If they mock me, they mock me. It’s all those things that we may be afraid of. If I no longer have friends, if I’m poor, I’m poor. If I lose my job, I lose my job. It’s the Elder Scott when he was being called as a mission president and he says, I’m being called on this assignment by the Quorum of the 12, and I want to take this job. And his boss says, well, you can take the job, but if you do, you’re not going to be hired when you get back. You have no job. What does he do? He makes a statement. You choose the right and let the consequence follow. If I perish, I perish. We could take that little phrase. If I do this, then I do this and let the lot fall as it may. But I will put the Lord first no matter what.

Hank Smith:                      23:57                   When you really get into this story, your heart starts beating. You’re like, okay. Even though I know what’s going to happen, I’m still, oof, this is intense.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 24:05        We’re bringing into chapter five that says when it came to pass on the third day that Esther put on her royal apparel. She is not going in there just slamming her hands and yelling at people and saying it’s not fair. She’s not trying to tell somebody what to do. She’s not telling anybody off. She is very composed. She’s dignified. She has a plan. We have to go back to verse 16. Go gather all the Jews that are present in Shushan and fast ye for me. And neither eat nor drink three days, night or day. I mean, this is a big request, but their lives are on the line. I also, and my maidens will fast likewise, so I will go into the king, which is not according to the law. And if I perish, I perish. What is it going to do to the hearts and minds of all of these women, children, men, individuals when they come as united, unified body of covenant people fasting together?

                                           24:57                   What is going to be the result when either she dies or she lives, but what does that do to the unity? Regardless of what happens to Esther, Esther has just provided an opportunity for everyone to experience the atonement of Jesus Christ and receive personal revelation and put their faith into action. I love that about Esther. She could have just said, don’t tell anyone. You and I are going to figure this out. We’ll just take it to the Lord. But she doesn’t do that. She does the opposite. Tell everyone to fast and to pray. Get the faith of every person you possibly can. I will do the same, and I will tell these women who are likely not Jewish people to also fast and pray for us. Then let’s turn it to the Lord. She needs a miracle. He needs a miracle. And fasting often does provide miracles.

                                           25:41                   I can testify that till I’m blue in the face. Fasting works. It’s another level of commitment, and it’s showing the Lord that you’re consecrated and putting it all on the altar. You’re fasting. It came to pass on the third day that Esther put on her royal apparel, stood in the inner court of the king’s house, over against the king’s house, and the king sat upon his royal throne in the royal house over against the gate of the house. I mean, you can just see the royalty, the pomp and circumstance of this whole thing. And Esther is just coming in as confident as she can. And it was so when the king saw Esther the queen standing in the court that she obtained favor in his sight. Like, ugh, thank goodness. And the king held out to Esther the golden scepter that was in his hand.

                                           26:17                   So Esther drew near and touched the top of the scepter. And then said the king unto her, what wilt thou Queen Esther? And what is thy request? It shall be even given to thee, the half of the kingdom. Esther, ask me anything you want and I will give you half the kingdom. Clearly now to see this change in King Ahasuerus. I hope we get the sense that there is a deep level of respect that the king does have for Queen Esther at this point. He is willing to put the scepter up to her. She has gained his trust in some way. She has gained his love. Esther answered, “If it seem good unto the king, let the king and Haman come this day unto the banquet that I have prepared for him.” She doesn’t even just say right then, this is what I want. This is what you need to give me. This is what’s happening with the Jewish people. She has a plan. She has thought through this very carefully. She is not going to go throw it all at him right now. There is wisdom. There is planning. There is a level of thouhtfulness that’s going into this. And I think that fasting and praying is what’s honestly helping her to think through this. She’s receiving revelation. I think she’s being guided by the Lord very carefully. She is careful. Very, very careful.

Hank Smith:                      27:28                   She’s been given this insight, it seems, into the personality of the king, the personality of Haman saying, if I do this right here, it’s not going to go well. I’ve got to get this in my home court. Got to control the environment.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 27:42        I think she is calling upon her spiritual gifts. I think that she has one that is obviously that she’s a beautiful woman. She also seems to have a spiritual gift to calm the situation. She seems to be able to do that. She seems to be a peacemaker by her nature. She also seems to have this gift of discernment. She can see clearly what’s happening that may be coming because of the fasting of the people. But she recognizes that she’s doing a lot of observing in her life, so it appears. On a funny note, maybe, but I also think this is real. She seems to have a gift to be a very good cook or to be able to put together a very nice banquet. And I actually mean that in seriousness. She’s trying to get the heart of her husband. That sounds so weird to say that.

                                           28:24                   But it seems that he likes food, and it seems that he’s liked wine in the past, and he likes big banquets. So she’s playing to him saying, how do I love him? How do I show him that this is so important to me, that I will provide for him whatever it takes so that he can see that this is real? This is serious. I am paying a very heavy price. It may not be what she wanted, but she’s trying to prepare his heart and she’s trying to prepare his mind because he is about ready to make a decision that’s going to make the difference in the entire people. I do believe that these are part of her spiritual gifts that she has for such a time as this. All of us have spiritual gifts and they need to be used at these moments. She’s going to use hers.

                                           29:01                   The Lord clearly knew who she was and what gifts she had and what she was able to do. Then you see verse six, “And the king said unto Esther at the banquet of wine, what is thy petition? and it shall be granted thee: and what is thy request? even to half of the kingdom?” We see this again, shall be performed. Then answered Esther and said, my petition and my request is. Now again, you see her. She’s not just going to say her request again. She is going to double down and really make sure she is going to pinpoint it like nobody’s business. Rather than having that, she says, I have found favor in thy sight of the king, and if it pleases the king to grant my petition and to perform my request, let the king and Haman. This is a level of wisdom. This is a level of reading the scene and understanding who the king is and what he wants.

                                           29:48                   Bring Haman with you to the banquet that I shall prepare for them and I will do to morrow as the king hath said. Then went Haman, and this is the irony of the whole situation is we can continue to see this irony. Then went Haman forth that day, joyful with a glad heart, but when Haman saw Mordecai in the king’s gate, he stood not up nor moved for him. He was full of indignation against Mordecai. Haman was just invited to be at dinner alone with the queen and the king. This is a huge privilege. This is beyond anyone’s imagination. Who gets invited to have a personal dinner with the king and the queen? But he cannot keep that in his head long enough to walk by and see a man not bow down to him. That’s how base this is. It’s how demeaning his pride has become in his own heart.

                                           30:35                   He cannot look past Mordecai’s unwillingness to bow down to him and be grateful for the opportunity to have dinner. Do you see this wickedness here, this pride that has just destroyed, it’s poison. Nevertheless, Haman refrained himself. He didn’t say anything to him, but it’s just building up inside of him. When he came home, he sent and called for his friends and Zeresh his wife. This is the part that we were talking about before where I just want to say to Haman and Zeresh. Now, the distinct difference between Zeresh and Esther becomes very clear here. Haman told them of the glory of his riches, the multitude of his children, and all the things wherein the king had promoted him, and how he had advanced him above the princes and the servants of the king. I mean, he’s just so boastful. And Haman said moreover, yea Esther the queen did let no man come in with the king unto the banquet that she had prepared but myself.

                                           31:22                   And to morrow, am I invited unto her also with the king. Yet all this, and this is the ugliest verse, all of this availeth me nothing so long as I see Mordecai the Jew sitting at the king’s gate. Talk about the poison of pride. It’s so ugly here. It is every warning that President Benson, and we’ve had other prophets that give this as well. Here’s your President Benson quote. Fear of men’s judgment manifests itself in the competition for men’s approval. He cannot get him to bow. He wants his approval. The proud love the praise of men more than the praise of God. Our motives for the things we do are where the sin is manifest. Jesus said he did always the thing that pleased God. Would we not do well to have the pleasing of God as our motive rather than try to elevate ourselves above our brother and outdo another?

                                           32:13                   Some prideful people are not so concerned as to whether their wages meet their needs as they are that their wages are more than someone else’s. Their reward is being a cut above the rest. This is the enmity of pride. When pride has hold on our hearts, we lose our independence of the world and deliver our freedom to the bondage of men’s judgment. This is what he’s lost. He’s lost his independence. The world shouts louder than the whisperings of the Holy Ghost. The reasoning of men overrides the revelations of God and the proud let go of the iron rod. This is Haman. He cares more about one man that will not bow down to him than he does about his entire relationship with the king and the queen. He cares more about it than his wife. He cares more about it than his men. All he wants is one person to bow down to him.

                                           32:56                   Because of this, he’s going to lose everything. Pride. Pride cometh before the fall. It’s the scripture that we know. It’s President Benson, and we are watching it happen in real time with Haman right here. Then if I may, this part is so buggy, verse 14. Then said Zeresh his wife. I mean, it’s his wife. Come on, just say to him, you’re being so prideful, Haman. Call him on the carpet. Like Haman, grow up. Haman, maybe think of somebody else beside yourself. There’s so many things that she could say here. Haman, as Sister Nelson did, are you done crying yet? Okay, now go back to work. She doesn’t. She feeds it. Then says Zeresh his wife and all his friends. And I would put friends in quotes because clearly they’re not much of friends. Let a gallows be made of 50 cubits high and to morrow, speak thou unto the king that Mordecai may be hanged thereon. Then go thou in merrily with the king unto the banquet. And the thing pleased Haman and he caused the gallows to be made. Yes, dear sweet Haman, go build the gallows and kill Mordecai. He’s done nothing wrong, but just kill him. What kind of wife is doing this? It’s so yucky.

Hank Smith:                      33:54                   Yeah, they’re helping him destroy himself. They don’t know it. He doesn’t know it, but he’s building his own death.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 34:00        What is sad here is, again, this is a relationship between a couple. At some point, you have to get over yourself. At some point, you have to care more about the other person than you do about yourself. And Zeresh hasn’t learned that lesson either. She’s also not willing to put him in his place. She has a little level of pride or fear. I don’t know what it is. But she’s not helping. We know what happens. This is where the whole paradox comes in. This is like a Shakespeare play. We’re just watching the ridiculousness of this story. But this part I just think is so fun. Chapter six, the people are fasting. The Jews are fasting. Esther is fasting. Mordecai is fasting. The children are fasting. Women, even the handmaids are fasting. And while they’re fasting, this is so profound. On that night, could not the king sleep.

                                           34:46                   And he commanded to bring the book of records, the chronicles, and they were read before the king. And it was found written that Mordecai had told of Bigthana, again, we have big, and Teresh two of the king’s chamberlains, the keeper of the door, who sought to lay hand on the king Ahasuerus. To me, that is an absolute answer to their fasting and to their prayers. What else could have happened in order to make the king recognize that there is some Mordecai that needs to be saved out there? The only way that this could happen is the Lord, because he’s not listening to anyone else. Mordecai can only be saved if the Lord steps in. This is the parting of the Red Sea for Mordecai and the Jewish people. It’s just as strong. The king now is going to think to himself, whatever happened to this guy?

                                           35:31                   Well, why is he thinking this? Because the Spirit is guiding him to this. What does the king do? Of course, he wants to honor this Mordecai because he saved his life. I mean, the timing of this, too. Then said the king’s servants that ministered unto him, there is nothing that’s been done for him. Like, whatever happened to Mordecai, remember that guy that saved my life? Whatever happened to him? Well, nothing ever happened to him. Nobody gave him anything. He hears some noise down below, and he recognizes that Haman is there. So he calls Haman in, and then there’s the play again. He says to Haman, verse six, the king said unto him, What shall be done unto the man whom the king delighteth to honor? Now, Haman is so prideful again. He thinks it’s him. Haman thought in his heart, to whom would the king delight to honor more than me?

John Bytheway:               36:14                   Who could this possibly be? It’s got to be me.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 36:17        I’m the greatest of all. Yeah. Of course, what is Haman going to do? He’s going to say, give him the royal apparel, verse eight, which the king useth to wear, and the horse that the king rideth upon, and the crown royal which is set upon his head. I mean, these aren’t even okay things. Give him everything. Let this apparel and the horse be delivered to the hand of the one of the king’s most noble princes that they may array the man with all of whom the king delighteth to honor. And bring him on horseback to the street of the city and proclaim before him. Thus shall it be done to the man whom the king delighteth to honor.

Hank Smith:                      36:47                   This isn’t the tender mercies of the Lord. This is the bitter ironies of the Lord right away. Can you imagine that moment where he says, okay, go get Mordecai and do that. What?

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 37:00        Yes. I mean, it’s so sickly, sadly funny. It’s the irony of the situation. The king said to Haman, Make haste and take the apparel and the horse, as thou hast said, and you’re just waiting for this next, take haste and go do all these things to Mordecai. Boom, boom, boom. You just feel it’s like, what? I just see him like Haman just fall like, wait, to who? Mordecai? This man who won’t bow to me? It’s almost like you want Haman to respond, but Haman stays silent. What do you say to the king who his best person, this one, it’s not him. His worst enemy just got his job. He’s been fighting this man, and the man that he could not stand more than anyone else on the entire earth was just given everything that he thought he deserved. Then took Haman, the apparel and the horse and arrayed Mordecai. To be a fly on the wall when Haman is giving the apparel of the king to Mordecai.

                                           37:52                   I mean, he’s putting, it says Haman does this and brought him on horseback through the street of the city and proclaimed before him, thus shall it be done unto the man whom the king delighteth to honor. At this moment, I can’t help but think of the premortal realm. How mad Satan was when God cast him out and gave the honor to Jesus Christ and gave the authority to Jesus Christ and how mad and angry Satan was that he just wanted to destroy everyone. If you want to see somebody mad, see Haman put a robe on Mordecai. Turn that authority over to somebody else. I’m sure he is absolutely boiling right now. I’m also assuming he’s absolutely full of fear. I think that that’s one of the reasons why Satan is the way he is, is because he’s full of fear and he’s full of anger. When we put that combination of fear and anger together, it is an ugly, ugly situation.

                                           38:40                   He’s full of fear because he’s seeing that Mordecai, the person he hates, is now taking some lead, and it’s ugly. Mordecai came again to the king’s gate, but Haman hasted to his house mourning and having his head covered. Mourning is an understatement. Haman told Zeresh, his wife, and all his friends everything that had befallen him then said his wife, and we looked at this before, and the wise men Zeresh his wife unto him, if Mordecai be of the seed of the Jews. Now, finally, his wife is making a little bit of sense. Well, Haman, if Mordecai be of the Jews, guess what? You’re not going to prevail against him. Because God is the God of the Jews and you are nothing. Good luck, sweetie. Yeah, you’re right. You’re dead meat. And Mordecai, you are something else as this humble leader. And Haman, you’re in trouble.

                                           39:29                   While they are yet talking with him came the king’s chamberlains and hasted to bring Haman unto the banquet that Esther had prepared. Now the plot thickens. Chapter seven, the king and Haman came to the banquet with Esther the queen. Now, Esther has been praying and fasting. Does Esther know that Mordecai has been just given this great award? Does she know how much Haman hates Mordecai? We have some idea that there is a hatred between the two and Haman with this, but we don’t know enough here. It seems like it’s a quick, I mean, this is happening in a period of hours, it seems. And the king said again unto Esther on the second day at the banquet of wine, What is thy petition, Queen Esther? I think that that’s a tender phrase. Esther, what do you want? How can I serve you? I’ll give you anything.

                                           40:14                   I’ve already told you I’d give you half of the kingdom. Here you have us together. Clearly, you’re doing all you can. What do you want, Esther? How can I help? It shall be granted unto thee. What is thy request? And it shall be performed. Again, he says, even to the half of the kingdom. And Esther the queen answered and said, now here, you could just see the praying in her mind at this moment. I am sure she is just pleading. Heavenly Father, please. God is not written here, but he is clearly seen. If I have found favor in thy sight, O king, I have done everything I can. King, I have served you. I’ve come dressed nicely. I have given you dinner. I have waited. I’ve been patient. I’ve done everything I can. If it please the king, let my life be given me at my petition and my people at my request.

                                           40:59                   For we are sold, I and my people to be destroyed, to be slain and to perish. But if we had been sold for bondmen and bondwomen, I had held my tongue. If we had been just slaves or if we had been sold to somebody, I wouldn’t even say anything. I don’t want to put you in a position. I’m not trying to use you. I’m not trying to abuse my power. If it were just slavery, I wouldn’t come to you. But we’re being destroyed. And then she says, “Although the enemy could not countervail the king’s damage. Then king Ahasuerus answered and said unto Esther the queen, and you can see he is just completely confused right now. This is taking him totally off guard, but he has enough composure to sit there and say to her, “Who is he? Where is he that durst presume in his heart to do so?” Esther said, “The adversary and enemy is the wicked Haman. Then Haman was afraid before the king and the queen.”

                                           41:49                   That moment, to be a fly on the wall to see Haman’s face, to see King Ahasuerus’ face, to see Esther’s face. And there’s this recognition, these three people, intimate relationship. I mean, this is to be very clear, this is the king’s right-hand man. As far as the king is concerned, this is his most trusted counselor. This is someone that he trusts. This is someone he’s given his ring to in times past. This is someone that he has brought into and has allowed to be in his most intimate quarters. When he comes into the place, the king invites him to be exactly where he is. There’s no other person that we’re seeing the king doing this. So he has the two people that are the most trusted. His wife, it seems, and Haman. He is seeing the accusation of his wife against Haman. Now, in the past, he would’ve gone with Haman.

                                           42:34                   But there’s something that Esther has done that is causing him to believe Esther instead of Haman. In the story of Joseph in Egypt, Potiphar doesn’t believe Joseph, or it seems that he doesn’t. For whatever reason, he still is going to side with his wife. He’s going to side in a sense with the enemy. But somehow, King Ahasuerus is not listening to his right-hand man. This is the first time we’ve seen the change. There’s something that has happened. It’s the fasting and praying. It’s the Spirit. It’s something has caused him to change his mind here. Then Haman was afraid before the king and the queen, which again says a lot that he’s afraid of the queen. And the king arising from the banquet of wine in his wrath went into the palace garden. I love that the king. Again, talk about two different personalities.

                                           43:20                   The king now, different than he did at the very beginning. Rather than making a judgment, rather than losing it right there, he steps away from the situation. I think this is an important leadership principle. He doesn’t just get mad and make a decision and cut off people’s heads. He gets up and he walks away into the palace garden. In other words, it seems like he’s pondering. He’s thinking. He’s taking control of himself and he’s by himself. He’s not listening to Haman anymore. Haman stood up to make requests for his life to the Queen Esther. This is ugly. For he saw that there was evil determined against him by the king. The king returned out of the palace garden. Seems like he is now there. He went back into the banquet and Haman was fallen upon the bed whereon Esther was. Then said the king, will he force the queen also before me in the house?

                                           44:05                   It seems as if it’s an accident. It seems as if Haman, like, falls on the bed. We don’t know for sure, but what we do know is it sets the king off, which it should have set the king off. He’s already seen this man that has been accused of killing his wife and his, and her people. And now he’s seeing this man in a position where it is a position only he should have as the king. He is in this very private circumstance. Why Haman would be in the bedroom of the queen? That’s a whole different question. But the king sees it and he is very, very angry. So it says the people came in and covered Haman’s face. For a moment, we pause. I have to just say, we recognize the hand of the Lord in this story and see very clearly the divine signature of God.

                                           44:49                   As he has absolutely taken the people that were about to perish, change the whole story. The king has a dream. Esther is able to go in and enter into this area and the tail has completely flipped on its head. And the only way that could really happen is God allowed it to happen. I don’t want to say made it happen because it’s difficult to put that into God, but he allowed it to happen. Then Harbonah, one of the chamberlains said before the king, behold also the gallows 50 cubits high, which Haman had for Mordecai, who had spoken good for the king, standeth in the house of Haman. Then the king said, hang him there. Haman’s been building this gallow to kill Mordecai, as we know. What is the king going to do with him? He’s digging his own grave. Like literally he has just dug his own grave. They hang Haman on the gallows that he had prepared for Mordecai. Then was the king’s wrath pacified. It’s really a sad, sad, sad story. It’s the story we hear so often, especially with anger. Anger is poison. As we do with anger, we drink the poison that we intend for somebody else.

John Bytheway:               45:50                   What you just said about anger reminds me of a Stephen Covey example. He talked about a rattlesnake that bit somebody. And this guy picked up a stick or something and started chasing the snake. And he said it wasn’t the bite that killed him. It was him chasing the snake and circulating that venom throughout his body because he was angry. It’s just an analogy, I think. But the idea of the anger was what got him. Not the poison of the snake. Maybe if he seeks attention right away, it wouldn’t happen. I don’t know if medically that’s exactly right, but just an analogy that the anger is what got him. You had said something about Esther being a type of Christ, and I wanted to go back to that. This, I perish, I perish, but I’m going to save the people. Is that what you were talking about? Because I see Haman is actually called the adversary. Esther, chapter seven, verse six.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 46:47        As I was listening to it, I couldn’t help myself. Esther is coming out of nowhere. She’s an orphan. She is being raised in a family and in a situation that is impoverished. She has, so it seems, been put to the lowest of low. You can’t be much lower than a girl, parentless, as we mentioned before, in a country that doesn’t respect or have anything given to a child in this nature. This would be very similar to Jesus Christ. He is then like Esther for a number of years. Not that people didn’t know he was a Jew, but they didn’t know he was the Savior. Esther keeps it to herself that she’s a Jew. And it’s not until it’s necessary does she actually show the world, the people in her world, who she really is. Then we get to this point where Christ himself is going into this sacred garden of Gethsemane.

                                           47:43                   Father, thy will be done. And take this cup from me. If I perish, I perish. He’s put it all on the line. Esther’s in a similar way. She’s going to, in this case, please take this cup from me. Take this bitterness from me. My people are all going to be killed. And Christ is in a position where he is going to save the entire human race. And Esther is in a position that she can save her entire population of people. And they both have to completely put their lives on the altar and turn it completely over to someone else. Esther’s case, she turns herself to the king and he makes a decision. In Christ’s case, of course, he turns it to the king, his father. I wonder about Vashti and her role in this. Vashti comes before Esther and provides the way, just as there is a John the Baptist coming before the Savior and he is providing the way.

                                           48:37                   As we know, he has the last supper. He has a meal with these people. He has a meal with those he loves the best, including the person who was going to kill him. Esther has a meal with her people, the king and the man who was trying to kill her. Esther was willing to put her life on the line just as the Savior was willing to put his life on the line. Yes, I think that there is a serious connection as a type of Christ here. We don’t see women as types of Christ, as I said, very much, but to me, as I, the more I read this, I just think, wow, this is Esther. She is a covenant woman. She is called of God for such a time as this, as the Savior was to perform and save an entire group of humanity.

                                           49:12                   And the only way she could do it was to put her life on the line. To me, this is a very sacred moment. Who is it that puts Mordecai in this position? It’s Esther. Esther’s the one that crowns Mordecai. Esther’s the one that makes it so he becomes the new ruler. I think it’s very fascinating in this relationship that it’s the woman who puts the man in position here. And the man rules seemingly in righteousness to fulfill the purposes. It’s a father-daughter, but it’s a very sacred moment what is given. The authority that Esther is given by the king for other people is not only symbolic, but extremely sacred.

Hank Smith:                      49:49                   Hmm. I was thinking about Haman. And do you both remember the verse in Isaiah where Isaiah says, don’t fight against Zion. You’ll be like a person who is dreaming. And in their dream, they are eating, but then they wake up and they are starving.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 50:06        Yes, exactly. Yes. It’s so bad.

Hank Smith:                      50:09                   Through the whole story, it looks like Haman’s going to win. And then at the last moment, it’s completely swapped. In our world today sometimes it looks like the adversary’s going to win. But hold on. The story flips.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 50:23        Yeah. The story flips. God will always fulfill his covenants with his people. Period. Isn’t it great? Isn’t this such a great book?

Hank Smith:                      50:33                   That was a lot of fun. Yeah, you had me on the edge of my seat and I knew what would happen. That moment where she goes in, I can’t imagine that deep breath of, okay.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 50:47        I really do believe that as we continue to read the scriptures, even if we’ve read the same verse a thousand times, the Lord will teach us something different depending on our state in life. For me, that’s been the case with studying again Esther. So I appreciate this opportunity because I’ve learned a lot from my own personal life and how to grow and lead and how to be careful and wise and patient and temperate. As Elder Soares recently talked about those important things. Chapter eight, verse 11, wherein the king granted the Jews, which were in every city, to gather themselves together and to stand for their life. I love that they’re standing for their life. He’s not asking them to bow down to him. He’s saying, you Jews, you have a right to stand up for your life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish all the power of the people and province that would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey. And then upon one day, the provinces of King Ahasuerus, namely upon the 13th day.

                                           51:39                   So this was what they were allowed to do. They don’t do it exactly like that. They don’t take the prey there. There’s a whole nother story behind that. I love also in verse 15, “And Mordecai went out from the presence of the king in royal apparel.” This is the prototype. “In royal apparel of blue and white and with a great crown of gold. And with the garment of fine linen and purple, and the city of Shushan rejoiced and was glad. And the Jews had light and gladness and joy and honor.” I love that verse. The Jews had light, gladness, joy, and honor. I mean, talk about a flip. They went from fear, they went from death, they went from all these things they fasted and prayed. And now, again, the flip. Joy, light, honor. In every province and in every city, whether it’s wherever the king’s commandments and his decrees came, the Jews had a joy and a gladness and a feast and a good day.

                                           52:28                   And many of the people of the land became Jews for the fear of the Jews fell upon them. I don’t think that they’re afraid of the Jews. I think that it’s, again, it’s that fear. It’s that recognition. It’s that respect of the Jews came upon them. Then we have, this last part, which I think is very, very powerful. It’s this feast of Purim. It’s this, to this day, as we know, the Jewish people still celebrate this incredible day when they were free because of Esther.

John Bytheway:               52:51                   Hank, Barbara, I’m looking in my kids’ application Bible that’s written just for guys my age. Hey, I got a senior discount at Great Clips, but it has this little thing about Esther. It says, How to defend those who need help. And then it gives three steps. Pump up, step up, and speak up. Step one, decide to help, then pray and get yourself ready. Step two, when the king held out his scepter, she approached and touched it, the tip. Don’t hide in your room when the time comes for action. That’s step up. Step three, God is just as willing to give you the right words at the right time. Don’t worry about how people will respond to your words. That’s between them and God. Speak up. So I like that. Pump up, step up, speak up. That’s what Esther did.

Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner: 53:37        It is, John, the quote from President Kimball that was quoted by President Nelson. 1979, President Kimball, and then President Nelson adds to it. And we’ve heard this so many times, but I cannot help but go back to this because this is Esther, and this is what the women of the church are being asked to do. But I think it’s important that we also see the men of the church being asked to do this. He says, “Much of the major growth that is coming to the church in the last days will come because many of the good women of the world will be drawn to the church in large numbers. This will happen to the degree that the women of the church reflect righteousness and articulateness in their lives, and to the degree that the women of the church are seen as distinct and different in happy ways from the women of the world.” But then President Nelson says, “My dear sisters,” speaking to us today, “you who are our vital associates during this winding up scene, the day that President Kimball foresaw is today.

                                           54:25                   You are the women he foresaw. Your virtue, light, love, knowledge, courage, character, faith, and righteous lives will draw good women of the world along with their families, their husbands and children to the church in unprecedented numbers. We, your brethren, need your strength, your conversion, your conviction, your ability to lead, your wisdom and your voices. The kingdom of God is not and cannot be complete without women who make sacred covenants and then keep them, women who can speak with the power and authority of God. We need women who are organized, women who can organize, women with executive ability who can plan and direct and administer. Women who can teach. Women who can speak out. We need women with the gift of discernment who can view the trends in the world and detect those that, however popular, are shallow or dangerous.” And then he says, “Today, let me add that we need women who know how to make important things happen by their faith and who are courageous defenders of morality and families in a sinsick world.” I mean, this is Esther, and this is what he’s saying. Be Esthers.

                                           55:27                   “We need women who are devoted to shepherding God’s children along the covenant path towards exaltation. Women who know how to receive personal revelation, who understand the power and peace of the temple endowment. Women who know to call upon the powers of heaven to protect their and strengthen their children and their families. Women who teach fearlessly.” You think of what he’s trying to say to the women of the church today, and lest any woman thinks, well, yeah, that’s Esther, not me. No, it’s you. This is President Nelson talking to women of the church today. President Oaks is very similar. President Oaks is a man who has called upon the women of the church to speak up and speak out. He says it is his own mother that he learned this from. And talking about that relationship with those leaders, whether it’s a husband or a leader in the church’s government structure, he says this, and back to Vashti and King Ahasuerus.

                                           56:13                   “My dear sisters, whatever your calling, whatever your circumstance, we need your impressions, your insights, your inspiration. We need you to speak up and speak out” to what you were just saying, John. “In ward and stake councils, we need each married sister to speak as a contributing and full partner as you unite with your husband in governing your family. Married or single, you sisters possess distinctive capabilities and special intuition that you have received as gifts from God.” Again, back to spiritual gifts. “We brethren cannot duplicate your unique influence.” I just throw that out to all of our women and all of our men that we understand that about each other. That there are unique gifts, unique talents. We need each other. We have to be converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ, and in our day, it just doesn’t work to sit behind and hope things happen.

                                           56:58                   If Esther would’ve sat behind and just decided that it was just too hard or uncomfortable or she was afraid or whatever excuse she could have come up with, I think it is absolutely critical in this story that we see that Esther’s righteousness and covenant keeping is not tied to marital status or gender or age. What it is tied to is covenants. It’s tied to her relationship with God. There are single women in this church who are saving families and saving the world by being aunts, by being sisters, by being Relief Society leaders, by being teachers, by being good neighbors. We’re talking about Esther as not a mother and as a single woman going into this experience, now married, but it’s not the marital status that matters. What matters is, as we have been taught, Sister Joy Jones talked about this, it is that you are a covenant keeper.

                                           57:49                   If you want to give somebody a compliment, call them a covenant keeper. That’s what this is. She’s not important because she’s married and she’s not not important because she’s married. She’s not important because she does or doesn’t have children here. Her identity with God is what matters. And the way we understand our identity is by making and keeping sacred covenants with God. It is critical to me that this is a story, not necessarily just about her as having children, but she is a mother. Regardless of children as we know. She is a mother, she is a covenant keeper, she’s a mother because she’s a woman and she’s a covenant keeper. That makes her a mother. That makes her a nurturer. That makes her a powerful instrument in God’s hands. Thank you, friends. Thank you for being these wonderful people.

Hank Smith:                      58:32                   We love being with you. I knew today would be fantastic, but I didn’t know it’d be this fantastic. I have run out of places to write in this book. I don’t know if I, how I’m going to ever study it again. I have nowhere else to write anything. So much to think about. Thank you, Barb. This has been a wonderful day. With that, we want to thank Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner for being with us today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. And every episode, we remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. We hope you’ll join us next week. We’re not even close to done with the Old Testament on followHIM.