Hank Smith:                      00:00:00             Coming up in this episode on followHIM.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:00:03             I’ve had that experience. In 2013, this lady was texting on her phone and she just ran right over me. I remember when she hit me, I’m in the air spinning and I’m looking at the horizon go upside down and I’m doing like 22 miles an hour. Everything slows down. Time slows down and I remember thinking, so this is how I’m going to die.

Hank Smith:                      00:00:26             Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of followHIM. My name’s Hank Smith. I’m your host. I’m here with my tenderhearted co-host, John Bytheway, John 2 Kings 22:19. You have humbled yourself before the Lord.

John Bytheway:               00:00:42             I have several prescription medications like atorvastatin that also soften my heart.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:00:47             Wow.

John Bytheway:               00:00:48             And the arteries and veins going into it and out of it. Yeah.

Hank Smith:                      00:00:54             John, we are privileged today to have with us Dr. Michael Day, Dr. Mike. Grateful to have you here, Mike. Thanks for being on followHIM.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:01:02             Glad to be here. You guys are hilarious. We just started the recording here but we’ve been talking for a while and you guys crack me up. I’m excited to hang out and talk with you guys about the late monarchy period. It’s everybody it’s exciting stuff. It’s the middle of summer and we’re doing Kings.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:19             I mean, is there anything better? I can’t think of anybody out there that’s going, I cannot put this down. Well, if there’s anybody who can make it great, it’s going to be Mike Day. John, speaking of the late King’s period, the late monarchy, as you’ve been looking ahead, anything coming to mind? I’ll give you one thing that I’m thinking of and then I’ll jump over to you. That is, this is where the Book of Mormon starts to connect with the Bible. You start to think, wow, this is the world Lehi is going to grow up in.

John Bytheway:               00:01:50             That’s exactly where I think people will go, oh, okay, I do want to know about this because the more you study the Book of Mormon and the Old Testament, the more you see how they connect. There were some late monarchs. I don’t know why they were never punctual. Also, it’s helpful here to get what’s Northern Kingdom, what’s Southern Kingdom, who’s Ahaz, who’s Hezekiah, and hopefully we can sort out some of that so that when you make that jump to the Book of Mormon, you’re like, okay, I get what’s going on here.

Hank Smith:                      00:02:20             If you can connect these, the Book of Mormon will come to life. Mike, what are you looking forward to today? As you’ve been preparing, what are you hoping we walk away with?

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:02:29             Well, the number one thing is pay your taxes. Here’s why. These kings don’t pay their tribute to the big dog on the block, the big gorilla on the block, whether it’s Assyria or Babylon. And if you don’t pay your taxes, bad things happen. Number one, pay your taxes. The story of Hezekiah where he goes to Isaiah and he says, listen, these guys say they’re going to kill me if we don’t let them in the city. And then Isaiah says, we’re going to pray about this, and then they go to the Lord. That story’s told in Kings and is told in Isaiah. It’s a big part of the middle of Isaiah. That’s a really big story to help us understand the world of Isaiah, but also it’s a great narrative of what do you do when you’re up against it? I like that prayer and that whole experience because it’s also part of the hero’s journey.

                                           00:03:12             Every hero has to go through a time where everything is just not working out. What do you do in your life when you lose your job or you have chronic illness or you lose a loved one or something horrible is happening or going to happen? How do you handle it? That gives me a lot of faith. It really strengthens my belief. For me right now, I’m going through a period of time that’s difficult in my family and I think a lot of our listeners have had times or are having times where they need to have their faith strengthened. So that’s a faith strengthening one, maybe a little less humorous. But then towards the end, and I nerd out about this so much and I don’t want this to be like a hobby horse, but I love it. I love the bit in the end in 640 when Josiah is a kid and he’s put on the throne.

                                           00:03:55             Then they make all these religious changes because like John said, that’s really where 1 Nephi picks up. 1 Nephi 1:1 is addressing the Josiah reforms. If you really want to have people walk away from you at a dinner party really fast, this is what you say, you know, when they come up to you and say, what are you reading about? And you could just say, I’m reading about how Josiah’s reforms are connected to the Deuteronomistic historians, you know, reconstructing Israel’s religion and how that ties into the visionary men of 1 Nephi 1. You say that to them and they will be like, okay. And then they will walk that way. But I really like talking about that because it’s so awesome. Hopefully it will make sense. I hope that when they put this out there that people will go, okay, I think I know what Mike’s talking about. That’s my hope. Anyway, those are kind of like the big three.

Hank Smith:                      00:04:44             Okay. Mike, I love it.

John Bytheway:               00:04:47             Awesome.

Hank Smith:                      00:04:48             I love it. We’re going to laugh, we’re going to learn, we’re going to feel.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:04:51             That’s right.

Hank Smith:                      00:04:51             This is going to be great.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:04:52             We’ll scratch our head and go, what is he talking about?

Hank Smith:                      00:04:55             Now, John, I got to tell you, I first met Mike back in 2005. We passed each other, you know, ships passing in the night. I just joined the faculty at Copper Hills Seminary. He was just leaving. We saw each other for a day or two and then he went on to do great things. I’ve loved him ever since and he doesn’t know this. I’m a big fan of his Come Follow Me podcast Talking Scripture. And I know our founder and executive producer, the Sorensens, they are big fans as well. I’ve been listening to Mike for a long time. But what do you know about him, John? Do we have any background? How is he qualified to talk about these things?

John Bytheway:               00:05:35             We do. I know he’s qualified because I first met him. he was on the back of a bus in somewhere around Nauvoo and I was in the front of the bus talking and I saw him taking notes. I don’t know what he was writing. Maybe this guy has no clue what he’s talking about. Maybe that’s what he was writing. He grew up in Modesto, California, served a mission in Chicago, met his wife Sonia at Weber State. Their family has grown to include four sons and their wives and treasured grandchildren. How many do you have, Mike?

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:06:05             Oh my goodness. We have a fourth coming this week.

John Bytheway:               00:06:08             Wow.

Hank Smith:                      00:06:08             Oh, fun.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:06:09             They keep coming.

John Bytheway:               00:06:10             Yeah. That’s great. And as Hank mentioned, you’re the co-host of the podcast called Talking Scripture with Bryce Dunford. Mike is also a regular contributor on the Stick of Joseph channel. Mike firmly believes the Book of Mormon is exactly what it claims to be, so do we. He’s deeply passionate about uncovering and highlighting connections between esoteric temple teachings and the roots in the Book of Mormon and is equally enthusiastic about the Bible. He embraces its complexities exploring its original languages and rich cultural and historical contexts including the late kings. So he’s been a professional religious educator for seminaries and institutes since 93, has a PhD from the University of Utah in world languages and cultures, comparative literature and cultural studies with an emphasis in classical Greek and biblical Hebrew. This is going to be a lot of fun. Welcome to the program. Thanks for taking notes on the back of the bus on the church history tour.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:07:12             Glad to be here. Awesome.

Hank Smith:                      00:07:15             Mike, I think I’ve seen you more in person in Israel than I have in Utah. We’ll both have groups in Israel and I’ll run into Mike and then in Utah we just don’t run into each other. He’s up in Salt Lake County. Well, Mike, John and I are excited to learn. I’m going to read from the Come, Follow Me manual and we’ll give the reins over to you. The lesson this week, he trusted in the Lord God of Israel. Despite the prophet Elisha’s powerful ministry, the people of the northern kingdom of Israel did not repent. Eventually, the Assyrian empire conquered and scattered the 10 tribes of Israel. Meanwhile, the Southern Kingdom of Judah wasn’t doing much better. Idolatry was also widespread there. Amid this spiritual decay, the scriptures mentioned two kings of Judah, who for a time, turned their people back to the Lord. One was Hezekiah.

                                           00:08:05             During his reign, the Assyrians conquered much of Judah, but Hezekiah and his people showed faith in the Lord who saved Jerusalem in a miraculous way. Later, after another period of apostasy, Josiah became king. Inspired in part by a rediscovery of the book of the law of Moses, Josiah brought reforms that revived the religious life of his people. Mike just talked about that. Like Israel and Judah, we all make both good and bad choices. When we sense that our lives need some reforms, we can take encouragement from these two bright spots in the dark years of Judah’s history. Perhaps the examples of Hezekiah and Josiah can inspire us to trust in the Lord our God. Beautiful. All right, Mike, with that, let’s go where you want to go.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:08:51             That’s a good intro. Big picture, we’re covering the late monarchy period from about Isaiah’s time. Oh, Isaiah is around 740 BC, 750 BC in that period, to the Book of Mormon to 600 BC, but really 586 BC. So that’s the time period almost a couple hundred years. It’s called the late monarchy period is people sometimes will say, how do we know that there really was a King Ahaz and stuff like this.? What’s really cool when you do history is you can kind-of triangulate things. We can read the biblical narrative and we can say, okay, this is what the Bible says. But then what were other people saying at that time? What are the Assyrians saying at this time about Judah? What are the Egyptians saying? We know that there was a kingdom there. We know that Jerusalem was attacked during the reign of Hezekiah.

                                           00:09:42             There’s a thing called the Taylor Prism or the Sennacherib Prism, midst of the annals of the king of Assyria where they write down, this is what we did and this is who we attacked. I put some of these in the slide. We can put these up for those of you that are watching them, but if you go to the British Museum, they’re massive reliefs. You can see the prism and one of the cool things about the prism, it’s this like six-sided pillar. The person who writes it says that Sennacherib caged in Hezekiah like a caged bird. We know there was a Hezekiah, we know they attacked because of there’s other outside sources. This part’s really easy to triangulate and say, hey, this stuff happened. That’s kind of the time period we’re at. As far as the chapters, I always like to do, like John says, a 30,000 foot view.

                                           00:10:26             I’ve heard you say that before on church history tour. Here’s the overview of the flyover. 16 and 17 cover Ahaz and Hoshea. Ahaz is the king of Jerusalem. Then we get an 18 through 20 and that’s Hezekiah and his experience with the Assyrians are coming, what are we going to do? And that’s also in Isaiah, which we talked about before. There’s some really good stuff in there, faith building stuff. Then we get to the long decline. The next bit is Manasseh in his 55-year reign. And according to some traditions, Manasseh actually kills Isaiah. That’s not in the Bible, but it’s in the extra biblical literature. That’s a fascinating story to me because I love Isaiah so much. If it’s true, it’s so sad. In some traditions, I think it’s Manasseh marries the daughter of Isaiah.

Hank Smith:                      00:11:15             Yeah. I’ve heard that. And he has him saw it in half.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:11:19             Yes. And so there’s images if you go to like Italy, some of the old churches of Isaiah holding a saw, I have an image of this in the church of the Gesù where Bernini’s Padawan learner learned how to paint and sculpt and he painted Isaiah with a saw on his hand. It’s a fascinating story. Every time I go to a magic show and I see the lady get sawed in half, I turn to my wife and I’m like, this reminds me of Isaiah. She’s like, you are so weird.

Hank Smith:                      00:11:47             Oh man, I’m glad someone else’s wife says that to them.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:11:50             So that’s Manasseh and he’s not a good guy. And then you get to Josiah who’s put on the throne when he’s eight and that’s chapters 22 and 23 of 2 Kings and all these reforms happen. The writer of Kings is like, Josiah’s awesome. He’s the best thing since sliced bread. He’s as cool as John Bytheway, he’s so awesome. Then he dies. Oh, the Egyptians kill him. And you’re like, why are the Egyptians killing him? It didn’t say anything about the Egyptians. What’s going on with that? Why are the Egyptians killing him? We’ll talk about that.

                                           00:12:19             And then chapter 24 and 25, everything goes to heck in a hand basket, the temple’s destroyed, that’s the end of the kings, but the beginning of the Book of Mormon. So that’s the big picture, the 30,000 foot view. Most of the kings in the north and the south are portrayed as really bad, but Josiah is a bright spot. Hezekiah, I think he gets a lot of props. The whole thing with the Assyrians come, whenever I teach this in class, I call it Hezekiah’s last stand, but he’s not alone. Wouldn’t you be scared? If Canada invaded Salt Lake and they were surrounding us, we’re going to force you guys to use maple syrup and you’re going to play hockey and we’re going to take over. Holy cow, that’d be really scary.

Hank Smith:                      00:12:58             Yeah. John’s told me this before. They’re on Capitol Hill looking over the Temple Square saying, we’re coming in tomorrow.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:13:08             Yeah. We’re going to eat all your stuff and you’re going to have to pay us tribute and it’s going to be horrible. That’s kind of the big picture.

Hank Smith:                      00:13:15             I wanted to bring two things. One, can you notice as a teacher, enthusiasm is contagious. Mike has it. As a teacher, I can’t think of anything you’ll need more, of course, the Holy Ghost. Enthusiasm is contagious. Then two, if someone’s listening going, why do I need to know this? If you love the Book of Mormon and you really want it to shine, this lesson in particular along with the Isaiah lessons are the key. Through this show, I’ve come to learn if you really want to understand the Book of Mormon, you read the Old Testament.

John Bytheway:               00:13:50             Yeah. How did you say his name? I try to say it the way I heard somebody in Israel say it Sennacherib.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:13:58              I butcher my pronunciations, but I call Sennacherib, you know, potato potato.

John Bytheway:               00:14:03             When he says he had Hezekiah pent up like a bird in a cage, it’s, he didn’t say I conquered him because Jerusalem was miraculously protected. Oh, so this is why Lehi had a tough sell. Jerusalem’s going to be destroyed. Nah, because back when the Assyrians attacked, it was all protected. I like what you said, Hank, this is a great jumping off point to help us understand the beginnings of the Book of Mormon for exactly that reason.

Hank Smith:                      00:14:29             We do need to say that all Mike is a meticulous records. He knows how to footnote. All of this we’re going to make available on our website, followhim.co. The great Lisa Spice will link all of these show notes in. I would love to see the story of Hezekiah talked about more like we talk about Alma and Helaman because here’s a guy who everyone is telling him, do not listen to the prophet. He does not know what he’s talking about. How many youth adults do we have today who the message is do not listen?

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:15:04             The reverse with Zedekiah where Jeremiah comes to him and he says, listen, the Babylonians are going to wreck you. You need to pay tribute. And then these other false prophets are like, no, you’re going to be all good. And he listens to those guys. Let’s just jump into chapter 16. In the chapter heading, it even brings it out and it says, listen, Ahaz reigns in wickedness. He becomes the king of Judah, and verse three says he made his sons pass through the fire, and it doesn’t get a lot of specifics there, but there was this idea that child sacrifice did happen. I’m not going to settle that here for this podcast, but the Old Testament authors are very much anti-child sacrifice as we should be. After that, it talks about Judah being attacked by Syria, by Aram and by Israel, the northern kingdom. Ahaz appeals to Assyria for help.

                                           00:15:53             To give you an idea of, like, what’s going on during this time period, Assyria is the big gorilla on the block. Syria and northern Israel are joining together and this is where we read in Isaiah where Remaliah’s son is going to come down and invade. Then Isaiah says something like, don’t worry about these two smoking firebrands. You’re going to be okay, Ahaz. Isaiah does talk about this stuff. Ahaz is in this state of like, what do I do when they’re coming to get me? In verse nine, it says that Assyria defeats Damascus in the north. From basically verse 10 to the end of the chapter, Ahaz adopts some of the Assyrian ways of doing the temple. In scholarship, they call this syncretism where another religious tradition will have this thing that you don’t have necessarily a way of doing it and we blend it together.

                                           00:16:47             We see outside influences coming into the temple. The best way I describe it, sometimes in seminary, I’ll show that little 30-second commercial. I’m sure you guys remember it where there’s a guy walking down the sidewalk and he’s got chocolate in his hand and then there’s another lady and she’s eating peanut butter and they bump into each other and they give each other that look like, you’re really cute. He says, your chocolate’s in my peanut butter. And she’s like, your peanut butter is in my chocolate. And what are they trying to sell you?

John Bytheway:               00:17:11             Reese’s peanut butter cup.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:17:13             See, you know it, right? None of our kids know it today. You show that to the seminary kids say like, what, what? That’s syncretism. We’re blending stuff together. Big picture, it says in verse 11 that the priest, Urijah, built the altar according to all that King Ahaz had sent from Damascus. That’s 16. Now Ahaz is portrayed as bad. Verse 17, I think the author of Kings is trying to portray him bad where it says, Ahaz cut off the borders of the bases, removed the labor and took down the sea from off the brazen oxen. Verse 18 in the middle of the verse says, turned he the house of the Lord for the king of Assyria. Here I have this written down, syncretism is a harsh critique of Ahaz’s reign. The author of Kings is trying to portray that. He’s not saying it, but I think he’s saying it by saying, hey, don’t do that.

                                           00:18:00             Now, how could we apply that today? And that’s the conversation you could have of dress, language, the stuff we watch. Are we influencing the world or is the world influencing us? And I think that’s something that, you know, you could have a conversation, a gospel doctrine about that. And how can you watch for that? Because it doesn’t just happen at once, it happens in little stages.

Hank Smith:                      00:18:19             The people in Jesus’ day are going to have the same problem with Hellenization. How much do we embrace? And then we have the same problem today. How much do we embrace of the culture around us?

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:18:30             Like you and I would never watch a Rated R movie in the ’80s and ’90s, but how many reels do we consume that’s R rated. Like, what am I doing?

Hank Smith:                      00:18:38             I do like the application there of, oh, be careful that you’re changing things that the Lord gave to fit with the Assyrian culture around you. Thanks, Mike.

John Bytheway:               00:18:50             Our listeners will be familiar with some of those terms like The Sea from off the Brazen Oxen. Hank, do you have a more contemporary English Bible translation you could read 17 and 18 from?

Hank Smith:                      00:19:01             I really like the contemporary English version. I use a website called Bible Hub. You can bring up a verse and it will show you 30 different translations. The contemporary English version, the reason I like it, this might sound a little juvenile, but it’s a third grade reading level, which kind of fits for me. Contemporary English version of 2 Kings 16:17. Ahaz also had the side panels and the small bowls taken off the movable stands in the Lord’s temple. He had the large bronze bowl called the Sea removed from the bronze bowls on which it rested and had it placed on a stand made of stone. He changed the temple. My boys are in junior high, we definitely read simpler versions of the Bible. Doesn’t do them any good to not understand what they read.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:19:53             The Book of Mormon, I’m just going to say this too. I think the Book of Mormon is the best lens to study the Bible. When you read the Bible and something’s just not jiving, it’s good to read other translations, it’s great to read commentaries, but don’t forget the Book of Mormon. That’s my interpretive lens.

John Bytheway:               00:20:09             Nice.

Hank Smith:                      00:20:09             Well said.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:20:11             When you get to chapter 17, in verse four, it says that the king of Assyria found conspiracy in Hoshea. Now, Hoshea is the king up north. The rest of the verse continues, it says, “For he had sent messengers So to the king of Egypt and brought no present to the king of Assyria. So he had done year by year, therefore the king of Assyria shut him up and bound him in prison.” What’s going on? It’s about tribute. You’re supposed to pay tribute to the Assyrians. They’re the overlords. They’re the big gorillas on the block and they’re like, you got to pay us this. And so what we think’s going on is Hoshea is talking to Egypt and he’s saying, hey, will you guys have my back? The geopolitics is like this underlying baseline buzzing noise that’s happening through the King’s narrative.

                                           00:21:01             The author of Kings is approaching their story through the lens of faith. For the author of Kings, whoever this person is, it’s not so much do you pay your taxes as it is, are you following the right way of doing religion? The author of 2 Kings is going to say, Israel’s doing it wrong. It starts with Jeroboam and it just goes down the list and you guys are all messing it up. But not paying your taxes is a problem. This is the beginning of the end for Israel. Now, I always say this, I don’t know, I wasn’t there. I’m going to bookend everything with I don’t know. I think Assyria’s going to come down and take or kill a lot of people, but I don’t think they’re going to take everybody. They’re going to leave people behind. They’re going to take the elites, the people that are literate, Lehi’s kind of people. It’s in this time period 721 where they take them and what’s so fascinating if you read like Israel Finkelstein stuff or some of these other archeologists that have done work, they found that there’s a massive influx of population coming from the north into the south into Jerusalem during this time. Why? Well, what would you do if you knew that they were going to come wreck you? I’m out of here. I’m going. A lot of people came south and the population increased and they know because they’re like studying the garbage and like there’s a lot more garbage from this layer.

                                           00:22:20             There’s way more people. They go in and they take them and they, I call it the wrecking of the house of Israel or the scattering, right? They take them and they take them north and they get scattered. Now, if you read some of the early stuff, now we’re going to just pivot from the Old Testament talk about church history and you start reading stuff Brigham Young said and Wilford Woodruff and Joseph Smith. They’re like, listen, you British folks are from those guys. The blood of Ephraim goes. It goes to Russia. It goes maybe as far as the far east, but I’m from German, French, and a little bit of British and I’m from Ephraim. I know you guys are prob… I don’t know. I’m not, not trying to assume, but I’m figuring you guys are Ephraim. They scatter Israel. But what’s super fascinating to me, and I’m a big believer in this, I think the northern folks had records too.

                                           00:23:11             Now, obviously Lehi’s not here yet, but he has ancestral land up north in Manasseh, okay? But I think perhaps his grandfather or his ancestors came south and there was somewhere in that family line the preserved record of the north. There’s this idea that the Old Testament has layers, editorial layers. In the 17th chapter, it talks about that they have evil ways in verse 13. They hardened their necks in verse 14. They rejected his statutes in verse 15. Then it says in verse 16, “They left all the commandments of the Lord their God and made molten images, even two calves and made a grove. “Now it says grove in the English, but that’s an ashera and worshipped all the host of heaven and served Baal. The north is being castigated for all those things. The images, the two calves, it kind of helps you understand the perspective of the person writing this stuff down.

Hank Smith:                      00:24:10             Yeah. Sometimes we read this Mike as if it’s like unbiased historical nonfiction and we get confused going, oh, that really happened? You have to realize the authors and the editors even all had little jabs that they’re making.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:24:25             Yeah, they had a perspective. That’s why I love the Book of Mormon where Mormon and Nephi and these guys are like, listen, I have a perspective. My whole perspective is to draw you to the Holy One of Israel. I want to take you to Christ. In him, we’re saved and there’s no other way. And every story I tell is to that end, every story. These guys are like, listen, our way of doing religion is the right way and those guys are doing it wrong. If you go to verse 19, 20 through like 23, it says, “The Lord rejected all the seed of Israel and afflicted them and delivered them into the hands of spoilers.” Verse 21, “He rent Israel from the house of David. They made Jeroboam, the Son of Nebat king, and Jeroboam drave Israel from following the Lord.” The authors hearkening back to earlier times, because remember Jeroboam, that’s like Solomon’s day, that’s hundreds of years ago.

                                           00:25:14             That’s the equivalent of saying like, let’s say Canada’s wrecking us, and we’re blaming it on Thomas Jefferson. We’re like, well, it’s because of what he did. Or Alexander Hamilton, why did he set up that banking system? That’s why we have these problems. But these guys are doing that because from their perspective, Israel’s doing religion wrong. They’re doing it the wrong way. Verse 21 and 22 is ripping on Jeroboam. I mean, I wrote in my scriptures, this is 931 to 910 BC. This is 200 years ago, but it says in verse 22, The children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam, which he did and departed not from them, and then until the Lord removed Israel out of his sight, as he said by all his servants the prophets, so was Israel carried away out of their land to Assyria unto this day.

                                           00:26:03             The Deuteronomistic history is this. It’s Deuterteronomy, Joshua, parts of Judges, 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Samuel. It’s this corpus of texts that people say that the Deuteronomist, whoever that is, had a certain theological perspective. They wrote down their history and it tells one story. The story is those Northern guys are bad, the Southern guys are good. There’s one way to do religion. We’re going to tell you what it is and the core of it is going to be in what those reforms are going to be that we’re going to talk about at the end. At the end of this podcast, we’ll talk about Josiah’s reforms. Those reforms are the theological perspective of the Deuteronomist. It’s going to get a little bit nerdy here really quick, but a lot of historians or a lot of biblical scholars call this the double redaction of the Deuteronomistic history.

                                           00:26:53             I kind of think it’s a triple redaction, but to be sure in speaking, here it is. There’s one where they put the story together right around Josiah’s time and their idea is that Josiah is the best thing since sliced bread. All these other kings are just not good, but Josiah’s awesome and we’re going to have a golden age. We’re going to be protected. We’ll see that with Hezekiah. And after Josiah dies, he gets hit by an arrow. They’re like, those promises aren’t being fulfilled so they redact it again where they edit some material and you can kind of sense the language shift. And some say, and I would be one of them, that there’s like a third redaction of this story and it’s during the exile. There’s this book by David Carr. He’s a Bible scholar, not LDS, but it’s a really good book and the book’s called Holy Resilience: The Bible’s Traumatic Origins.

                                           00:27:43             I think this is so important for us to understand the theological and political perspective of the person writing the Deuteronomistic history. And the question on the table is this, at least from the third redaction, the third layer. The issue, and I do believe that this Deuteronomistic history has some editing that’s happening during the exile. Imagine you guys, we’re in Babylon. We’ve had all these promises. If you remember the promise in Samuel where the prophet tells David, you will always sit on a throne. Your seed are going to reign forever in the house of Israel. Then your great-grandparents talked about the grandeur of the temple. We live in Babylon. How sad would we be? Not only are we paying tribute, we don’t even get to live on our own land. You read some of the Psalms and they lament and they’re like, we long for the day when we could live back home. It’s so sad how they did this to us.

                                           00:28:36             Because of this trauma, this great sad thing, we have the Bible. The Bible is coming out of horrific trauma. Now think about Mormon. 20 years of his life, he’s killing people. You think he’s thinking about the matters of life and death? There’s nothing that brings you to Jesus and like the meaning of life than taking another man’s life and realizing that your best friend just got killed and you could be next. You know that affected Mormon. The Book of Mormon comes out of trauma. David Carr starts this book off and it, I guess the reason why it really hit me is because he talked about he was riding his bike. He used to do a lot of road biking and this car just hit him and nearly killed him and it just caused great trauma. I’ve had that experience. In 2013, this lady was texting on her phone and she just ran right over me. I remember when she hit me, I’m spinning in the air. You remember when you were a kid and you were like at Lagoon or whatever and you’re on the rollercoaster and you’d watch the horizon flip upside down? Did you ever do that look sideways?

Hank Smith:                      00:29:36             Yeah.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:29:37             I’m in the air spinning and I’m looking at the horizon go upside down and I’m doing like 22 miles an hour and I’m in the air. Everything slows down, time slows down and I remember thinking, so this is how I’m going to die. That thought just occurred to me. I’m like, this is my last breath. And I hit the pavement and I skidded for several feet. I look like Anakin where he’s like, I hate you. Like, I’m all road rashed. The first thing I did was wiggle my toes, like, am I paralyzed? And then I realized, okay, I’m not paralyzed. But that trauma affected how I ride bikes now. Now I ride bikes on mountain trails and I don’t ride by cars because with people not looking at you when they’re looking at their phone, like, what are you going to do? David Carr talks about this and he says this trauma shaped the biblical narrative. One of the things that, that the authors of Kings are trying to say is, why did we get wrecked? Why did we lose the temple? It’s because we didn’t do religion right.

                                           00:30:33             Now, I could see this going one of two ways. If you have a child who’s not living the gospel, can you see how this could be a damaging thing? Like blaming you as a parent. Is it really your fault? Like, let’s take a breath. When I teach this, I like to teach, but that’s their perspective. I’m not trying to teach this with lacking faith, but another message is, dude, pay your taxes. Like, I don’t think they would’ve got wrecked if they would’ve paid tribute. That’s the perspective of the guys that wrecked them. Do you think Babylon cares if they’re doing religion right? They didn’t care. They just wanted their money. What do you do with this perspective of looking back, thinking about, okay, why did we lose the temple? But you can sense that trauma here, can’t you?

John Bytheway:               00:31:15             I appreciate the clarification in verse four of they brought no present to the king. Now, that wasn’t just a gift to be nice. I was just thinking of you and wanted to let you know how much we love you.

Hank Smith:                      00:31:24             It was my birthday and you guys did nothing.

John Bytheway:               00:31:29             It was a tribute they were obligated to bring. They were forced to bring. The other thing I wanted to note was the consistent message of Jehovah, who’s still there, verse 13. “Yet the Lord testifed against Israel, (Kingdom Israel), and against Judah by all the prophets and by all the seers saying, Turn ye from your evil ways. Keep my commandments and my statutes according to the law which I commanded your fathers.” I just loved, that was the verse I had marked as there’s the consistent message of Jehovah while all of this mess is going on everywhere else.

Hank Smith:                      00:32:04             My students at BYU, they get so tired of one of my favorite quotes. I’ve used it on here before. “It is good to be faithful,” said Elder Richard L. Evans. “It is good to be faithful. It is better to be faithful and competent.” This to me, what we’re doing today, Mike, is competency. Let’s understand this text where it came from. What perspective are we getting? How has it been changed through time? I think you can worship God with your mind and learning these type of things is a form of worship, I would say.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:32:38             Hank, I love this verse in section 88 of the Doctrine and Covenants. It’s really a great way to approach scripture. Will you read Section 88, Verse 118?

Hank Smith:                      00:32:47             You got it. It’s a long section. “And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith.”

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:33:03             It’s super interesting to me that in this section, they do the things that John talked about, like they rejected his statutes, they didn’t listen to the prophets, but then they also didn’t pay the tribute. And you’re right, you can miss it. He didn’t send a present. You’re like, what is this talking about? It was like big bricks of gold. Many, many talents of gold. They’re just like, we’re just not going to pay it. It’s not going to bode well for you. This scattering is talked about throughout the Book of Mormon. And I put this in the slide deck so we’ll have it for your people that are watching it. But I’m just going to read this bit here. The House of Israel was scattered on several occasions. The first was in 721 when the Assyrian Empire conquered the northern tribes. The second was in 586 when Babylon conquered Jerusalem and relocated many of the Jews.

                                           00:33:50             Finally, there’s another scattering in 70 AD after Jesus when the Romans burned down the temple in Jerusalem and sold much of the population into slavery as Nephi prophesied would happen. He prophesied this in 2 Nephi 25. However, Nephi also knew from Isaiah that someday God would set up an ensign for the nations. He will assemble the outcast of Israel and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. That’s the message of the Book of Mormon. It’s that there’s two gatherings. There’s a physical gathering and there’s a spiritual gathering. There’s both. Both have to happen. Because of that, that spiritual gathering and this is 1 Nephi 10:13 and 14. They got to come to the true knowledge of the Messiah, their redeemer. That’s the goal of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The goal is let’s spread that message to as many as will hear.

Hank Smith:                      00:34:45             For all the parents out there who have future missionaries, I do not understand how you can send a missionary out to gather Israel if they don’t understand at least a little bit of the scattering of Israel. And that means parents need to know this.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:35:01             So in that sense, 2 Kings 17 is relevant. It does help us to see these are real people. We know that they existed. We are from them. Every one of us is from these individuals. It’s a great story, but this is like David Carr says, a very traumatic story. How much of the moments in our life where we’re closest to God come out of trauma or while we’re in trauma? I think about that a lot. I think about Section 121. I think about the Bible. I think about imagine what the apostles felt after watching Jesus die. Then he comes back and then he leaves. To me, that would be traumatic because he’s alive and he’s back and then he’s like, I’m out of here. And then, oh, by the way, you’re going to go get killed. Traumatic.

Hank Smith:                      00:35:45             Whiplash. Yeah.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:35:46             The Bible’s coming out of trauma.

John Bytheway:               00:35:49             If you want a big picture of all this, like Hank, what you just said, you’re sending out kids to gather Israel. Well, how did they get scattered? Well, who is Israel and all that? If you want to see a really good 30,000 foot overview of this, go to ensign.edu. Find Hank’s talk, which had a big picture of what in the world’s going on here. Going back to Abraham and the Abrahamic Covenant, how are we going to bless the families of the world? How did the restoration go all the way back to doing this Abrahamic covenant to bless all the families of the world to gather Israel? Go watch the talk because not only is it really good, but it’s your buddy, Hank. So you can watch him explain this beautifully. Some really beautiful writing in that. How awesome to have President Nelson, he had these great little soundbites like hear him, like let God prevail, this gather Israel thing.

                                           00:36:43             I love that he added on both sides of the veil. How are we going to bless the families of the earth? We get them to the temple and how we can gather on the other side too by going to the temple. Putting all of that together. Hopefully this context will help us see that. I wanted to ask you both because I like to call it a fortunate scattering because it scattered Israel all over the place. Was it a scattering for wickedness? Yeah, most of the time, except for Lehi. But it was a fortunate scattering because now people go out, we go gather them, they get their patriarchal blessing, they go, oh, I’m Israel. I’m from one of these tribes too. Is that okay if I call it a fortunate scattering?

Hank Smith:                      00:37:25             I think so. I mean, without it, we don’t have the Book of Mormon.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:37:29             Before we leave chapter 17, the end of the chapter, verses 27 through 41, big picture, here’s what’s going on. After the King of Assyria takes the elites, that’s what I think. I think he’s taking the elites. I don’t think he’s taking everybody, but whatever, however you want to read it, after he scatters Israel and takes them, verses 27 through 41, the author of Kings is telling you that the king planted people there and he’s putting religious authorities in there. They’re dwelling there and they’re doing religion wrong. This is the author of Kings denigrating this group, the northern inhabitants of the land. I mean, if you look, it says in verse 37, “The statutes and the ordinances and the laws and the commandments which he wrote for ye shall you observe to do forevermore. Ye shall not fear other gods. And the covenant that I have made, ye shall not forget.”

                                           00:38:20             But verse 40, “howbeit they did not hearken.” Verse 41, “So these nations feared the Lord and served their graven images, both their children and their children’s children, as did their fathers unto this day.” To be sure in speaking, it’s syncretism. They’re following the Lord, but they’re also doing religion wrong. That’s what the perspective of this author is trying to say. It could be so confusing. You can read this and go, but it says they feared the Lord. But then it says they didn’t hearken. Like which is it? What scholars do is they look at this and they say, okay, what’s happening? Like I said, I don’t know. I wasn’t there. But the best guess is they’re doing Yahweh or they’re following Jehovah, Jesus as it were. They’re following Jehovah, but they’re doing it in a way that’s not the way the author of Kings would say is correct.

                                           00:39:06             The shout out to that is verse 29 and then specifically verse 32. It’s super interesting because if you read Mosiah, Abinadi is like, well, do you follow the law of Moses and do you follow the 10 Commandments? And King Noah’s like, well, yeah. We totally do. And Abinadi’s like, yeah, no, you don’t. Mosiah cracks that window open a little bit to let us say, it’s interesting is some of that stuff’s happening here. I’m not judging the north here. I’m not here to say what they are or not doing right. I’m just like looking at the text saying this is the complexity of the text, how they’re portraying it. If I had a 25-minute lesson, I wouldn’t get into any of that. But that’s what’s cool about what you guys are doing is you put all this out there, then people can, if they have three hours, they can put me on 1.5 speed and just speed it up.

Hank Smith:                      00:39:56             Oh, not you. There’s other people. There’s other people you can put at 1.5 speed. Mike Day is not one of them. I love the energy that we’re getting here. Now, I’m going to share with you one thing about teaching. I think this came from a man named Rich Robbins, who’s a fantastic teacher. He said, if you go to a dam like the Hoover Dam, if you see the force of the water coming out at the bottom of the dam, you see the incredible force that’s coming out of there. It’s because you know on the other side of that dam is a lot of water. Well, he said a teacher’s a lot the same way. When you see the energy and power that’s coming out of their teaching, it’s because they have so much stored up behind that. You can get that from Mike. You’re going, this is amazing! If we only had the time where we could go in and look at the other side and look at all he has stored up. I’ve always loved that analogy ever since I heard it. I can see it in a teacher like Mike. Let’s keep going. We’re on 18 next.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:41:07             2 Kings 18 through 20 is the reign of Hezekiah. The time period here is 715 to about 686 BC, in that little space there. I talked about him being 25 when he’s put on the throne. That’s in verse two. In verse four, it says he removed the high places and he broke the images and he cut down the Asherah. That’s the grove. Then the author writes this in verse five, there was nobody like him “among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him, for he clave to the Lord and departed not from following his commandments.” And then of course, if you’re going to be a good king, verse eight, you got to kill some guys. You got to smite the Philistines. It’s the Old Testament. We’re clearing out chaos. Just in my scriptures next to verse five, I wrote 2 Kings 23:25. That’s where the Deuteronomus says, well, actually, the greatest thing since sliced bread wasn’t Hezekiah, it was Josiah. These are the twin darlings of the Deuteronomistic historian or the writer of 2 Kings.

                                           00:42:10             They love Hezekiah and they love Josiah. Once you get verse nine to about verse 14, there’s a lot of trouble happening. The trouble is that Assyria is on the loose. They’re conquering every place everywhere. And so on one of my slides, I put several reliefs. I went to the British Museum, which is fascinating. I would that everyone in your audience could at some time spend a day in the British Museum to see those massive reliefs. And we see that the nation of Judah is just devastated by Assyria as they come in. This is what David Carr writes. He says, “Lachish was Judah’s largest town outside of Jerusalem.” And then the relief shown here, and I depict it here, is a vivid Assyrian depiction of the destruction of Lachish. Other parts of the relief depict Assyrian archers and stone throwers on the attack, Judean soldiers being impaled around the city and later scenes of people being led from the defeated city into exile.

                                           00:43:11             According to archeological surveys, the Assyrians decimated virtually all of the countryside outside of Jerusalem. We see that in verse 14. It talks about in verse 13, Sennacherib comes against all the fence cities and he took them. And then verse 14 says, Hezekiah, the King of Judah sent to the King of Assyria to Lachish saying, I have offended; return from me: that which thou puttest on me will I bear. In other words, I’ll pay tribute once again, that’s what it means. The King of Assyria appointed unto Hezekiah king of Judah, 300 talents of silver and 30 talents of gold. That’s the amount that they have to pay. I literally put this relief from the British Museum. I’m there taking pictures. I, like, put it in my scriptures. What does Hezekiah do? And this is, in my opinion, sad. In verse 15 and 16, he cuts a bunch of gold and silver off the temple and gives it. Is this good? Do you see where I have some tension? It’s a fascinating history, but on one hand, the author says he’s a good king and he does everything right. Can you imagine if the prophet of God was like just chiseling off bits of the temple?

Hank Smith:                      00:44:17             Yeah, it’s complicated. Reminds me a little bit of Captain Moroni where Mormon says everybody should be like Captain Moroni. And then there’s some things Captain Moroni does that you’re like, oh wow.

John Bytheway:               00:44:27             Wrote a pretty harsh letter to Pahoran. Yeah.

Hank Smith:                      00:44:30             Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:44:31             We know not, but what you are traitors to your country.

Hank Smith:                      00:44:34             Yeah. You’re like, wow.

John Bytheway:               00:44:37             Pahoran’s the guy who’s just like, oh man, I rejoice in the greatness of your heart. He’s the one I go, wow. I mean, he could’ve gone, how dare you. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:44:49             I love that that’s in the Book of Mormon. It gives me hope because there’s a lot of times when I’m on the wrong and then I have to eat crow and go… It’s usually to my wife. I’m like, I was wrong. And she’s like, yeah, you were. And I’m like, I’m sorry.

Hank Smith:                      00:45:03             Mike, is this where the Rab-shakeh steps in?

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:45:07             Yes. Geek out moment really quick. I call him the PIO, the public information officer of the Assyrians is going to stand on the wall. Now, I spent some years in city government where I was elected city council. I remember being fascinated by cities hiring a PIO. Every city has one, especially now with social media. You have to have a public information officer. I remember going, I want that job. That sounds so fun. Like, you get to stand in front of the camera and explain this horrible thing in your city. Here’s how we’re going to fix it. And then I thought, sometimes as a seminary teacher, you’re a PIO. You have to stand up in front of the kids and go, okay, guys, we’re going to read some really sketchy stuff in Genesis. Genesis 18, but bear with me. We’re going to talk about Jesus. In this case, Rab-shakeh is not a good guy.

                                           00:45:57             He’s going to stand up and basically taunt the residents. When I first saw, I know it’s been 20 years. I’m sitting in this movie called The Return of the King. Now, I’d read the book, but I had forgotten much of it because I was a kid and I didn’t understand it. But I’m sitting in here as an adult and there’s that scene where the mouth of Soren is holding the mithril shirt of the hobbits and he casts it at Aragorn’s feet. Now, Aragorn is the Christ figure. And the mouth of Soren, in my opinion, I think Tolkien is channeling this bit because the mouth of Soren, that guy with the teeth, remember that scary dude? He says the hobbits are dead. Mordor has one. You guys have to basically bow down to us because we’re going to wreck you guys. Everyone’s looking at Aragorn like, what do we do?

                                           00:46:41             And Aragorn’s like, we fight. It’s one of the greatest moments in cinema because I think, isn’t that what Satan does? He basically says, you’re outnumbered. We have the goods and just surrender and just give up. This is such a dramatic part of scripture. If you set it up the right way, I think the students will go, oh, I can relate with that. Have you ever been in a time when you just felt like I’m hopeless and I don’t know what I’m going to do? That’s what he does. He stands up and he says, verse 19, “speak to Hezekiah, Thus saith the great king, the king of Assyria, What confidence is this wherein thou trustest? Thou sayest, (but they are but vain words,) I have counsel and strength for the war. Now on whom dost thou trust, that thou rebellest against me? Now, behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt.” The idea is, well, Egypt is going to save us.

                                           00:47:35             Judah might be thinking. Rab-shakeh says that’s not going to happen. Then he says, verse 22, But if ye say unto me, We trust in the Lord: is not that he whose high places and whose altars Hezekiah has wrecked. That’s my translation. He’s wrecked them. He’s taken them from Judah to Jerusalem. So he’s basically giving a shout out like, you guys think Jehovah’s going to save you? We’ve wrecked every one of those places. Now, the previous chapter, the author of Kings is saying, well, they worshipped Jehovah, but maybe they weren’t doing it right. Maybe that’s why those are in there. But the whole point is he’s basically taunting them saying… and it gets pretty vulgar. I’m not going to read the verses, but if you keep reading it, even in the King James, they preserve the language. He gets really vulgar and says, things are going to go bad for you. Then the key verse that I have highlighted that I want to talk about for your audience is verse 30. John, do you want to read verse 30? Actually, read 30 and 31.

John Bytheway:               00:48:32             Neither let Hezekiah make you trust in the Lord, saying, The Lord will surely deliver us, and this city shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of Assyria. Hearken not to Hezekiah: for thus saith the king of Assyria, Make an agreement with me by a present, and come out to me, and then eat ye every man of his own vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink ye every one the waters of his cistern:

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:48:58             Don’t trust him.

Hank Smith:                      00:49:00             Mike, this guy seems to know exactly what to say.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:49:04             Oh, yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:49:05             Yeah, he’s good.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:49:07             And so does the adversary. Doesn’t the adversary know that every one of my weaknesses, and I don’t know if you guys ever have this happen to you, but there have been times when I’ll be thinking I’ll have this negative tape playing in my head. And the negative tape is, yeah, don’t talk about that. Don’t testify of Jesus. Or I’ll be out to go give a presentation and I’ll hear a tape that says you’re going to do horrible. It’s going to be boring. Sometimes I wonder, is that my voice or is that another voice? The more I’ve come to grow and learn, I’ve learned those negative voices. That’s not me. But they’re real. I got to say this. I know we’re in Kings, but I can’t help myself. We got to go to Isaiah. Let’s go to Isaiah 37. Because it’s the same time period, right? This is the same stuff.

John Bytheway:               00:49:49             I’m reading the upper pool by the conduit and to the fuller’s field going, that’s Isaiah language right there. And that’s Hezekiah too.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:49:57             This is it. I mean, let’s get a big picture. Let’s read the chapter heading and then let’s read verse six and seven. I’m going to pitch that to you guys. You guys want to… One of you do the chapter heading and one of you do six and seven. I really think Isaiah’s going to give us a perspective that’s going to help the Kings narrative really pop.

Hank Smith:                      00:50:15             Isaiah 37. Hezekiah seeks counsel from Isaiah to save Jerusalem. Isaiah prophesies defeat of Assyrians and death of Sennacherib. Hezekiah prays for deliverance. Sennacherib sends a blasphemous letter. Isaiah prophesies destruction of Assyrians and then a remnant of Judah will flourish. And then here comes the spoiler. An angel slays 185,000 Assyrians. Sennacherib is slain by his sons.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:50:46             Okay. So that’s a big picture. Now, these guys don’t know history. So imagine you’re in the city. You’re surrounded by walls. If there really were 185,000, I don’t know. That word eleph is squishy. Eleph can mean clan, it can mean group, it can mean thousand. I’m not here to settle the numbers question of the Old Testament. I don’t think anybody can. But the idea is it’s a lot of people. Once again, I’m channeling my inner lover of Tolkien. We’re at helms deep and we’re surrounded by this hoard. They go to Aragorn, what do we do? And he says, we’re not surrendering these guys. This is not going to happen. With that picture in our head of all these people, let’s read verse six and seven. This is Isaiah saying Isaiah’s a prophet, and he’s saying, hey, let me tell you what the Lord has said about this.

John Bytheway:               00:51:34             Okay, this is Isaiah 37 starting in verse six. And Isaiah said unto them, Thus shall ye say unto your master, Thus saith the Lord, Be not afraid of the words that thou hast heard, wherewith the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me. Behold, I will send a blast upon him, and he shall hear a rumour, and return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land. So Rabshakeh returned, and found the king of Assyria warring against Libnah: for he had heard that he was departed from Lachish.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:52:08             Libnah is a city southwest of Jerusalem. I have a map that we’ll put in your video and for those of you that are listening, can’t see the map, all the map is basically doing is showing all the places that the Assyrian army is just wrecking. And it’s basically everywhere. Now go from Isaiah’s account to 2 Kings 19. The words of Isaiah are in verse six and seven. At the end of verse seven, Isaiah says I’ll cause him to fall by the sword in his own land. In verse eight it says, Rab-shakeh returned and found the king of Assyria warring against Libnah, for he had heard that he was departed from Lachish. And when he heard say of Tirhakah, king of Ethiopia, behold, he is come out to fight against thee. He sent mesengers again to Hezekiah saying, Thus shall you speak to Hezekiah, King of Judah, saying, Let not thy God in whom thou trusteth deceive thee saying Jerusalem shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of Assyria.

                                           00:53:10             What verse nine is saying is there’s like a pause in the fighting. There’s a Cushite ruler of the Egyptian forces and now Sennacherib has a two-front war. He’s fighting the people in Judah, but now he’s facing and fighting Egypt. There’s a pause in the fighting. While he’s not coming to Jerusalem at this time, he sends a letter and he says, listen, I put a pin in that. I paused coming to get you. I still remember who you guys are. I’m still coming to get you. Don’t forget. That’s what’s going on in verse 9 and 10. During that pause is where Hezekiah gives his prayer. And in the first slide that we, I’m giving you guys that I pulled this off the internet, I didn’t paint this picture, but it’s this beautiful image of Hezekiah on his knees. He’s just praying. And that’s Hezekiah’s prayer, which is in Isaiah, but it’s also in 2 Kings.

                                           00:53:58             It’s just a beautiful prayer. I’m going to read Hezekiah’s prayer. I’m going to read from Isaiah. And you guys follow along in 2 Kings. Isaiah 37:15 says, Hezekiah prayed unto the Lord saying, O, Lord of hosts, God of Israel that dwelleth between the cherabims. Once again, that’s in the Holy of Holies. You’re dwelling there. Thou art the God, even thou alone. Of all the kingdoms of the earth, thou hast made heaven and earth. Incline thy ear, oh Lord, and hear. Open thine eyes, oh Lord, and see. Hear all the words of Sennacherib which hath sent to reproach the living God. Of a truth, Lord, the kings of Assyria have laid waste all the nations and their countries. They have cast their gods into the fire for they were no gods, but the work of men’s hands, wood and stone. Therefore, they have destroyed them. Now therefore, O Lord, our God, save us from his hand that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the Lord, even thou only.

                                           00:54:54             Then Isaiah, the son of Amoz sent unto Hezekiah saying, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel. Whereas thou hast prayed unto me against Sennacherib king of Assyria. This is the word of the Lord, which has spoken concerning him. The virgin, the daughter of Zion, hath despised thee and laughed thee to scorn. The daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee. Cities were considered women in the ancient world. This is God speaking, but he’s speaking as if he’s coming and being personified as the city. The city of Jerusalem is despising this king of Assyria. Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? Verse 23, against whom hast thou exalted thy voice and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the holy one of Israel. Here, God is identifying as the city itself. It’s like this beautiful personification. This is one of the reasons why later when Jeremiah comes in 100 years later and says, hey, we’re going to get destroyed. The collective memory of the people in Jerusalem is, no, it isn’t because it was preserved here. What I just read, is it really similar to 2 Kings?

Hank Smith:                      00:56:02             Almost exactly.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:56:03             I just love Isaiah. If you go to Isaiah 37 verse 32, I’m just going to read this. Out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant and they that escape out of Mount Zion. The zeal of the Lord of hosts shall do this. Verse 31 says, the remnant that is escaped to the house of Judah shall again take root downward and bear fruit upward. This is a beautiful sign that Isaiah’s giving to Hezekiah and here’s the sign. And I kind of skipped verse 30, but it’s in there too. I’m just going to summarize it. In three years, Assyria’s going to be gone. We’re going to be able to plant again and this land that’s been devastated will again bear fruit. It’s going to be okay. We’re in a rough time. Trust the Lord. And then he says, verse 35 of Isaiah 37 says, I will defend this city to save it for my own sake and for my servant David’s sake. That’s hearkening back to that promise that Nathan gave to David where he says the throne of David will be forever.

                                           00:57:05             It’s never going to end. This is Isaiah saying, we’re going to be defended. And then again, in verse six of chapter 38 of Isaiah, he says, I will defend this city. That’s kind of the big picture of Hezekiah’s prayer and Isaiah’s response. And I know some of it’s in Kings. I don’t know why I just always go to Isaiah. Maybe because Jesus said we’re supposed to.

Hank Smith:                      00:57:28             I got to read you guys something. The Bible Dictionary author, I think it’s Robert Matthews, he has a flare for-

John Bytheway:               00:57:37             Oh, I’ve heard you do this, Hank. It sounds like a movie preview. Yeah, read it.

Hank Smith:                      00:57:41             It does. This is under Assyria in the Bible Dictionary. I like to read it with this voice. All Palestine now lay at the feet of the Assyrian. One man alone, the prophet Isaiah remained undaunted and encouraged Hezekiah not to surrender his stronghold. The prophet’s confidence was justified. A great disaster fell on Sennacherib’s host. It’s just a one man alone.

John Bytheway:               00:58:11             Man alone.

Hank Smith:                      00:58:12             This is one of the greatest stories told in scripture. He is begging God. You can feel this prayer.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:58:19             At the end of 19, it says that the angel of the Lord went out and smote them and killed all those guys. I love the end of verse 35. The Syrian army is now dead and it says, and early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses. That’s sometimes my seminary students. When I’m boring them to tears, I’ll be like, hey guys, 2 Kings 19:35. Come on.

Hank Smith:                      00:58:39             They arose in the morning. They were all dead corpses. That’s such bad grammar.

John Bytheway:               00:58:45             Wait, did the corpses arise? That’s what I like. When they arose, they went, hey.

Hank Smith:                      00:58:51             I think I’m a dead corpse.

John Bytheway:               00:58:52             We’re all dead corpses.

Hank Smith:                      00:58:53             I’m not dead yet.

John Bytheway:               00:58:56             Mike, you brought up the Sennacherib prism. The Lord smote everybody but the king who had to walk home. All he could write was, yeah, I had Hezekiah pent up like a bird in a cage.

Hank Smith:                      00:59:11             That was the end of that story.

Dr. Mike Day:                   00:59:13             Yeah, that’s the argument that biblical scholars say. They say there must be some historicity to this because if he would’ve taken it, he would’ve said, you know, I wrecked your stuff. I ate all your steak out of your freezer and now I took your stuff. It doesn’t say that just says I hemmed him in. The other thing is the author of the text kind of puts it as he goes home, the king of the Assyrians, and his sons kill him. And yes, it does happen, but that’s like 20 years later. The events here are around 701 BC, and then the killing of the King of Assyria is in 681. But the author is condensing it to say, can you see? The Lord is in charge.

John Bytheway:               00:59:50             Hank, you mentioned that it was actually Gerald Lund, back when they used to do CES Symposium. He showed a map of the United States and he said, okay, imagine it like this. Assyria is the superpower. North and South Dakota are gone. Wyoming’s gone. Montana’s gone. Colorado’s gone. And they’re coming into Northern Utah. And hey, when they hit Ogden, don’t worry. I have a scourge reserve for them. When they hit Woods Cross, don’t worry. When they hit Bountiful. And it was Gerald Lund who said, you know, I’ll stop him at Nob. He said, let’s compare that to Capitol Hill. We see an army of 185,000 shaking their fists and yelling at us and we’re on Temple Square. They’re saying, we’re coming to get you tomorrow. That night, here comes this angel of the Lord smote a hundred and fourscore and five thousand. And when they arose, they were all dead corpses.

Dr. Mike Day:                   01:00:43             I love that line.

John Bytheway:               01:00:44             Yeah. It’s my favorite. I think it’s funny without trying to be.

Hank Smith:                      01:00:47             If I were teaching this, you could teach prayer, sincere prayer in those few verses. You can feel it. He’s saying, save thou us. Please hear me.

Dr. Mike Day:                   01:01:02             Do you remember the story President Packer told about the guy who can’t feed his family anymore because his business is failing and he’s up at two and three in the morning and he can’t sleep? He’s like, well, I can’t sleep. I might as well do something. He goes to the office and he gets on his knees and he’s like, Lord, what am I supposed to do? Everything rides on his business and it’s not working. And he prays and he begs God and then he hears a voice or he gets a thought and he gets a sticky note and he just starts writing down, okay, do this, do this. And he just starts doing it every day and he’s up at three every day. Weeks go by and he’s doing his to-do list that’s coming to his mind after he prays. Then one day he realizes that his business is feeding his family. The next thing he knows, it’s succeeding. And then he hires a manager and he doesn’t have to go to work anymore. And they call him as a mission president. I remember President Packer telling that story and I was a young father and I was like, this is Nephi’s bow. When it’s on you and your families are going to starve or eat depending on can you bring it? And can you imagine being in charge of a city? On one hand, you have a prophet saying you’re going to be okay. And on the other hand, you see the mouth of Soren standing there on the wall saying, we’re basically 99 and 0. We’re undefeated. We’re a number one seed. We’re going to wreck you guys.

Hank Smith:                      01:02:18             I love Hezekiah going to the temple. I love Isaiah. We’ll be fine. Are you seeing what I’m seeing? Because yeah, we’ll be okay.

John Bytheway:               01:02:28             And the Assyrians were the worst, but what they did to people, it wasn’t just like we’ll take your land, now you guys stand over here. They did horrible things to people and then displayed their carcasses.

Dr. Mike Day:                   01:02:43             Brutal. How would you feel about a nation that killed your grandma?

Hank Smith:                      01:02:47             What a great insight.

Dr. Mike Day:                   01:02:48             The beginning of 20 really sets up the Josiah stuff, the idea that we’re never going to be defeated. If you look in verse six of chapter 20, it says, “Turn again and tell Hezekiah, I will heal thee and on the third day thou shalt go up to the house of the Lord. And I will add to thy days 15 years, I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the King of Assyria. I will defend the city for mine own sake and for my servant David’s sake.” There was this idea that was in the ancient world that cities, they were tied to gods and so whatever God was in control, the city would be preserved. If the city was preserved, the God was powerful. By the city being preserved, it was the way for the people that lived there to say, see, our God is God. But then the reverse was also true.

                                           01:03:37             If our God is God, then the city will be preserved. That viewpoint is going to spill over into the time period of Jeremiah and Lehi when Jeremiah and Lehi both… We have Jeremiah’s words where he says, hey, you’re going to get wrecked if you don’t pay the tribute. There’s other prophets that are false prophets that tell the king of Judah, you don’t have to do that. Why? Well, because God’s going to protect you. When I think about this, I don’t know who said it first, but I’m sure we’ve all heard this. Just because we’re raised in the church or just because my dad’s the bishop, well, it doesn’t mean that you are going to have faith and everything’s going to be okay. Faith is not an inheritance. It is a choice. Every day when we get up, every day is a new day and we have to decide where we stand. I really like these verses. They’re difficult because you can see once again, the danger of misinterpreting scripture. We have to be careful and we have to be careful in our assumption. Remember Jesus where he says, “I can raise up stones to make children of Abraham.” That’s not the deal.

Hank Smith:                      01:04:38             Mike, I want to highlight something you just said that I think is so crucial to understanding 1 Nephi. This city was saved by Jehovah. How long before Lehi is this saving of Jerusalem?

Dr. Mike Day:                   01:04:54             A hundred years. About 701 BC. It’s going to get wrecked in 586. I don’t know exactly when Nephi is. I think Nephi tells you the time period, but we’re in that window of about 100 years.

Hank Smith:                      01:05:04             No wonder they didn’t think it would happen. He saved them before, he’ll do it again.

Dr. Mike Day:                   01:05:09             If you remember, this is all tied in. Everything’s connected. So Laman and Lemuel, in my estimation, my reading of 1 Nephi, they’re actually being pretty religious. They don’t believe Jerusalem’s going to be destroyed. It says, according to the prophets. Well, one of the prophets is this prophet named Nathan. So in 2 Samuel, he makes this promise to David, the invilability of the house of David, is what I like to call this. He comes to him and he says in verse nine, “I’ve made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth.” One of the ideas in the biblical narrative actually starts in the book of Abraham. God says, if you make my name great, I will make your name great. Because by the house of David building a house to God out of the cedars of Lebanon on Mount Zion, on Mount Zion, by building a house to the name, God will make his name great.

                                           01:06:00             The promise is in verse 12, when thy days be fulfilled, thou shall sleep with thy fathers. I will set up thy seed after thee which shall proceed out of thy bowels and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father and he will be my son. Now that’s hearkening to Psalm 2 and Psalm 110. Psalm 2 is the most quoted text out of the Old Testament in the New Testament. The New Testament authors geek out and love Psalm 2. The idea is that the king becomes a son of God. Well, that’s Jesus. He’s God’s son. But that’s also any righteous priesthood holder, male or female that holds the power of God. They become a son of God. The Bene Elohim, they become God’s son. We see this in the temple.

                                           01:06:49             So this is very much temple theology, like, just mixed in with this history. And then verse 16 says, “Thine house and thy kingdom shall be established forever before thee thy throne shall be established forever.” That’s a promise given to the saints today. One of the promises in the temple is I’m going to watch your kids. I’m going to protect them. This is Psalm 91, the promise of invilibility, the promise that the king is going to be protected. This is also Isaiah 52, which is in 3 Nephi right around chapter 20 where it says, “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.” This is a promise from outside the veil. I don’t take it literally that I’m not going to get hit by a car riding my bike, but what I take it as, yeah, I’m going to die, but my kingdom will go on because of Christ, because of the resurrection.

                                           01:07:36             The Christian interpretation of all this stuff is that the throne is carried on through Christ. Christ is king. And Jerusalem can get wrecked. That’s okay. Or Augustine when he writes the city of God, he says, Rome can fall. The kingdom of God is what matters. That’s what’s important. But the people that lived in Laman and Lemuel’s day, they read these passages and they’re like, Jerusalem’s not going to get wrecked. Look, it’s right there in the scriptures.

Hank Smith:                      01:07:59             1 Nephi 2:12, And thus, Laman and Lemuel, being the eldest, did murmur against their father. They did murmur because they knew not the dealings of that God who created them, neither did they believe that Jerusalem, that great city, could be destroyed.” Not even would be, could be destroyed “according to the words of the prophets.” They’re misreading scripture.

Dr. Mike Day:                   01:08:22             They are misreading it, but it’s so easy for us because we live here. What would we think if we were them? Sometimes my students will say, well, how do I know if I would follow the prophet? And my only answer is, well, do you follow him now?