John Bytheway: 00:00:00 Welcome to part two with Dr. Ryan Sharp, Matthew 9 and 10, Mark 5, and Luke 9.

Hank Smith: 00:00:07 I have a thought from S. Kent Brown that I want to share. He said, “This is exactly where Jesus wanted her, this woman, in the open, in the public square, in full view of others. After all, He understood that almost everyone in town knew of her condition, and because customarily people in that society thought that those who carried some abnormality were cursed of God, as in the case of Elisabeth, the previous barren mother of John, Jesus wanted the woman’s new whole status to be known in the wider community.”

  00:00:37 “She was no longer to be avoided, and worse scorned. In an instant, she was restored to her waiting family, to her patient friends, her lost synagogue, and her beloved temple. The lesson? The driving force beneath her actions had been her hope. Her hope filled faith in Jesus’ powers, and He affirmed, ‘Daughter, be of good comfort. Thy faith hath made thee whole.’ That’s in the Luke account. More lies beneath the verb rendered, ‘Hath made thee whole,’ than meets the eye. The verb means to save. It has to do with her salvation. Her faith had brought her to that divine door, now open to her.” Beautiful thought there from Dr. Brown.

John Bytheway: 00:01:16 The idea of suffered much from physicians. I don’t know what first century medicine, where they were at. It’s kind of, she had done everything she could think of. I have a beautiful commentary by John B. Weaver called Behold the Lamb of God, and he just said something that I thought, that is a good point, about Jesus saying, “Who touched me.”

  00:01:36 And Brother Weaver says, “Whenever an omniscient being asks a question, it is designed to further some moral purpose, or cause for the one being asked. Jesus knew who touched him. It seems that he wanted to highlight this good woman’s faith, although technically unclean, and let the witness of the miracle come from her lips, and not His, so as not to be self-promoting.”

  00:01:59 So yeah, I like what you’ve said there, Hank, and what Michael Wilcox said. “Jesus knew who touched Him, but he wanted it to come from her.” As you said, Ryan, a known member of the community with this malady, and everything. So this is a great story. It’s such a hard story, 12 years like that, but what a beautiful ending.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:02:19 Yeah. With that, here we have, “For thy faith hath made thee whole. Go in peace, be whole of thy plague.” Think of what that must have meant for her, given those circumstances. We get so caught up in this that we forget who’s standing by.

Hank Smith: 00:02:33 Yeah, just watching.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:02:35 Back behind is Jairus.

John Bytheway: 00:02:37 That’s the other side of the story. Yeah.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:02:40 Exactly. We forgot that he also has a significant challenge, an urgent challenge. His daughter is dying, at the point of death. He’s probably feeling this sense of urgency, as was mentioned. I have six boys and zero daughters, but I assume I would like my daughters as much as I like my boys, and to know one of them is sick, and possibly dying, and I have the answer here with me, but then we have to pause.

  00:03:07 Now, I’ll just kind of put myself out there with my own sort of imperfections, and this’ll tell you more about me than anything else. But if that’s me, if I’m Jairus, I mean I’m seeing this woman and I’m thinking, “Okay, you’ve had this issue for 12 years, can you give us an hour? Just hang tight. He’ll come back. I promise He’ll help you. We’ve got to go help my daughter right now.” Or, “You’re already healed? Okay, okay, Jesus, are we good to keep going now?”

  00:03:32 But here he remains, and standing. And to make it even more difficult, look at verse 35. “While He yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue’s house, certain which said, ‘Thy daughter is dead. Why troublest thou the master any further?'” Could you imagine that moment, that feeling, and getting that news?

  00:03:51 But then Jesus now shifts his focus back to Jairus. “As soon as he heard the word that had been spoken,” verse 36, “He said unto the ruler of the synagogue, ‘Be not afraid. Only believe.” And I just wonder if part of this connection with this woman, obviously it was primarily for her, but I wonder if he’s also recognizing that there’s a secondary audience, and this experience is bolstering the faith of Jairus. “Be not afraid. Only believe. You’ve seen what I’ve done here. Now take me to your daughter.”

John Bytheway: 00:04:23 Sometimes we can paint with a broad brush, every scribe, Pharisee, ruler, but here’s Jairus, he’s in a point where I just… Verse 23, as President Hunter said, “This is my little daughter, when it comes to your little daughter, I’ll do anything.” Even if a ruler of the synagogue comes to Jesus. And it reminds me of what Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimathea, some who were rulers, but not all of them. Some of them softened towards Jesus, and here’s one of those, and what softened him up? “It’s my little girl.” You can sense that.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:04:57 Everything else goes out the window, like this is family, “I love her.” Yeah.

Hank Smith: 00:05:00 So this is what you call the Marken sandwich?

John Bytheway: 00:05:03 Yeah, it’s like an Oreo or something, because it says something in the middle.

Hank Smith: 00:05:07 Starts a story, goes to another story, and brings us back.

John Bytheway: 00:05:10 Ryan, I love that, because the idea of Jairus, “Hey, we’ve got to hurry,” and then this person comes and gives the report. And here’s a question I have for both of you in verse 35, “Oh, thy daughter is dead. Why troublest the master any further?” So it’s like, “Well, he can heal the sick, but raise the dead? I don’t know about that.” Chronologically, has he raised anyone from the dead to this point?

Hank Smith: 00:05:32 I think it’s hard to know, isn’t it?

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:05:34 Yeah. I think it’s a tricky question, just because as we mentioned with each of these Gospel accounts, none of them are really saying, “Chronologically, this is how everything happened.”

John Bytheway: 00:05:42 We can do harmonies, but we’re not really certain about the chronology.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:05:46 But certainly this person, it seems like, wasn’t familiar with any examples. He’s saying, “It’s over. She’s gone.” But then again, that beautiful phrase by Jesus, “Be not afraid, only believe.” And then it continues, verse 37, “He suffered no men to follow Him save Peter, and James, and John, the brother of James. And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly. And when He was come in, He saith unto them, ‘Why make ye this ado and weep? The damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.’ And they laughed Him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying.”

  00:06:25 Now verse 41. “And he took the damsel by the hand, and said to her, ‘Talitha cumi,’ which is being interpreted, ‘Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.’ And straightway the damsel arose, and walked, for she was the age of 12 years. And they were astonished.” There’s your word again, John, “With a great astonishment.”

  00:06:44 We don’t get any more from Jairus, but think if we had sort of the unabridged version, or had his journal entry for the day, and what that meant for him, and his wife, and this little girl. I love how practical Jesus is in verse 43. “And He charged them straightly that no man should know it, and commanded that something should be given her to eat.” Like, “Guys, she’s probably hungry. She’s been dead. Somebody go and get her some food.” And then the sensitivity, and it’s a beautiful ending to this. And again, that Marken sandwich, I think just accentuates the connection between these two.

  00:07:14 One principle that I wanted to highlight from this, and I think there are a number of lessons to learn, but reading these two together, the way that it’s presented in the Gospel of Mark, and incidentally, which is kind of borrowed from Matthew and Luke, one of my favorite attributes about Jesus, and I love a lot of things about Jesus, but one of my favorite attributes about Jesus, is Jesus is never rushed. He’s never rushed.

  00:07:40 We’ve talked about how Mark captures this, that He’s always coming and going, but in terms of Christ and His ministry, He’s never rushed. He has a pretty urgent assignment, go and save this little girl’s life. And yet in this moment, He connects with this woman who has had this issue of blood for 12 years.

  00:08:01 And it reminds me of in 3 Nephi 17, you’ll recall Jesus is going to go to the Father, and to the other house of Israel, but He looks upon that multitude in Bountiful, and their eyes said, “No, stay with us.”

John Bytheway: 00:08:13 “Tarry with us.” Yeah.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:08:15 “Tarry with us.” And He has compassion on them and He says, I perceive that you want to experience the same thing. Obviously I’m paraphrasing, that they in Jerusalem did, and what does He do? He connects with them, and heals them. I have to imagine going to the father, and the other house of Israel, that’s a pretty urgent appointment, and probably an important appointment that He would need to keep. And yet Jesus always finds time to connect with the right person at the right time.

  00:08:42 I think that matters so much to me because I feel like I’m always rushed. Whether it’s going to work, or going to games, or practices, or church responsibilities, trying to squeeze in a date with my wife, I’m constantly rushing from place to place, and this is just a beautiful reminder to take a deep breath, be wherever you’re at. Jesus is never rushed, and I really love and admire that about Him and his ministering.

John Bytheway: 00:09:08 I heard, I think it was Elder Holland said, “He may not be on time, but he is never late.” Something like that.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:09:13 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:09:15 Ryan, this reminds me, because if you’re like me, you can get really focused on your to-do list. “I have to do this next,” and just this idea of Jesus was on his way to do something else, when this opportunity came up for this woman, He was on his way to Jairus, and as we’ve talked about.

  00:09:32 Well on November 14th, of 2017, I copied this story off ksl.com. The headline is, “LDS Church Leaders Interrupt Meeting to Save Girls in Submerged Car.” So there’s 15 men at the Rexburg South Stake, and they’re having a young men’s meeting, or something, and then one of the leaders who’s an on-call volunteer for the Madison Fire Department said something at 6:10 PM, “Hey, I just got a notification. Something’s going on down the road.” Joe Palmer says, “It sounds like somebody’s pinned under a car.”

  00:10:05 So everybody in the group jumps up from their seats, runs to their cars, Joe Palmer, Corey Wilcox, Joe Campbell led the way in a pickup truck. They got to the scene, and found a vehicle upside down in a canal full of water. Two teenage girls trapped inside the car. One teenage boy got out. They jumped in the water, people are hollering, “There’s people in there.”

  00:10:28 Wilcox, who was six foot eight, said the water was high enough to cover his waist, and they jumped into the water, ripped the first girl out, and someone said, “No, there’s another person in there.” They got her out too. Then they got back in Palmer’s truck, and with wet pants, and water squishing in their shoes, went back to the church meeting. On the way to the church, they passed the ambulance, and the sheriff deputies going the other way.

  00:10:54 So, the other young men leaders had no idea where those guys had been until they saw their wet clothing back at the meeting house. So, the leaders finished up their meeting, Wilcox went home, and his wife said, “Hey, how come you got wet shoes and pants?”

  00:11:08 And I just thought this was such a great story, because they’re in a meeting and somebody says, “Somebody needs help.” They’re there to do something else. But they left. “Hey, wait, we can’t go do that because we’re supposed to sit here talking about serving others.” They jump up, and they took off, and they did this. And I don’t know, that story just reminded me of chances to do some service when we were actually on our way to do something else, and how hard that can be sometimes. I love that these guys just went right back to their meeting.

  00:11:40 I had a professor, you guys probably remember Joseph Fielding McConkie. Well, he wrote a story. We got a lot of McConkies today on our podcast, but he wrote a book about his father called the Bruce R. McConkie Story, and apparently Elder McConkie got this letter from this woman, and so part of this is paraphrased.

  00:11:58 “A woman, a mother of two had contracted a rare blood disease. Though not fatal, it prohibited her from having more children. An administration at the hands of her husband, she received the promise her body would heal itself, yet all medical efforts proved painful, frustrating, and ineffectual. At a stake conference attended by a member of the 12, she experienced the impression that if her faith were great enough, she could be healed. She labored to increase her faith, and six months later, Elder Bruce R. McConkie was sent to that stake.”

  00:12:27 “Her children were ill that Sunday, and though she usually would’ve been the one to stay home with them, she and her husband decided that she should attend the conference. ‘I took a seat in the middle of the auditorium,’ She wrote to Elder McConkie later, ‘And I watched as you shook hands with many before the meeting. I was delighted as I watched the smiles of many, I recognized, enjoying your touch and smile.'”

  00:12:48 “‘Throughout the meeting, I found it difficult to concentrate. As it came to a close, I could hardly remain seated. As the closing prayer was said, I felt very calm,’ and then she continued. ‘The Spirit whispered to me, ‘Go up on that stage and be healed by Brother McConkie.’ I replied to the Spirit, ‘I don’t want to bother him. Look at all those people who want to talk to him. I’m just thrilled to be able to have heard him.'”

  00:13:10 “‘Then the Spirit reminded me, ‘Just touch the edge of his jacket.’ As I recalled the story of the woman who had touched the hem of the Savior’s garment, I’m sure I literally shook my head and said, ‘I can’t possibly do that.’ She said the Spirit and her continued their debate. Finally, she went. ‘As I made my way through the crowd,’ she wrote, ‘I felt very anxious and wanted to turn around, but I edged forward until finally I was right behind you, and you were engaged in conversation.'”

  00:13:38 “‘I fixed my eyes upon your jacket edge, and held my breath. You were so tall. I reached out, and quickly touched with my index finger, the hem of your jacket. Suddenly you spun around, extended your hand to me. I shook it, and tearfully uttered, ‘thank you.’ You simply nodded, and returned to your conversation. I went to my car practically dancing.'”

  00:14:03 “When she entered her home, she announced to her husband that she was healed. They knelt together in a prayer of thanksgiving. The doctor was baffled. At the time of her writing this letter to Elder McConkie, she’d become the mother of three more children. Her faith had made her whole.”

Hank Smith: 00:14:20 That’s absolutely beautiful, John. It reminds me of what President Howard W. Hunter said. He quotes Jairus, “‘My little daughter lieth at the point of death.’ This is typical of what happens frequently when a man comes to Christ, not so much for his own need, but because of the desperate need of a loved one.”

  00:14:36 “The tremor”, Ryan talked about this earlier, “we hear in Jairus’ voice as he speaks of, ‘My little daughter,’ stirs our souls with sympathy, as we think of this man of high position in the synagogue, on his knees before the Savior. Then comes this great acknowledgement of faith. ‘I pray Thee, come and lay your hands on her that she may be healed, and she shall live.’ These are not only the words of faith of a father torn with grief, but also a reminder to us that whatever Jesus lays his hands upon lives.”

  00:15:04 “If Jesus lays His hands upon a marriage, it lives. If he’s allowed to lay his hands on a family, it lives. The words, ‘And Jesus went with him,’ follow. We would not suppose that this event had been within the plans of the day. The master had come back from the sea where the multitude was waiting on the shore to teach them, and behold, suddenly, and unexpectedly, he was interrupted by the plea of a father.”

  00:15:26 “He could have ignored the request, because many others were waiting. He could have said to Jairus that he would come see his daughter tomorrow, but Jesus went with him. If we were to follow in the footsteps of the master, would we ever be too busy to ignore the needs of our fellow men?” That’s from Howard W. Hunter.

John Bytheway: 00:15:43 Whenever I’ve heard that quotation with this story, it always makes me want to ask the question, “Okay, how do I get Jesus to touch my marriage? How do I get Jesus to touch my family?” And I like how he said if He is allowed, and we have to allow Him to touch our families, and how can we make that happen? I mean, it’s a good question to ponder.

Hank Smith: 00:16:01 Yeah, these acts of faith, this woman reaches out to touch Him. I think of that as anything I do to exercise faith in him, for that kneeling down to say prayers, or reading my Scriptures, or going to the temple, going to church, all of these things are acts of faith, I think, that are reaching out to touch the hem of the garment of Jesus. All right. Should we jump back into Matthew now? Is that what you wanted to do?

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:16:25 Yeah, let’s go back to Matthew. So, in Matthew chapter nine, we get that same story with both Jairus and the woman with the issue of blood. And then immediately after that, we get the story of two blind men who are healed. That’s verses 27 through 31. And then in Matthew 9:32 through 34, we get him healing a man possessed of the devil. And then we come to that back bookend of our inclusio from earlier. “And Jesus went about all the cities and villages teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness, and every disease among the people.”

  00:16:58 Part of the reason why I wanted to start the way that we did, looking at both Matthew four, and then the teaching and preaching in five through seven, and then the healing in eight and nine is, all of that sets up what he’s going to do next in verse 36.

  00:17:12 “But when He, Jesus saw the multitude, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted.” Now alternate words from that, the Greek word translated as fainted are harassed, or vexed, or grieved. So that they fainted and were scattered abroad, or dejected, troubled as sheep having no shepherd. There’s no protection here, right? So, they fainted. They were scattered abroad as sheep having no shepherd. “Then saith He unto his disciples,” here they’re all disciples. “The harvest truly is plentious, but the laborers are few. Pray ye therefore, the Lord of the Harvest, that he will send forth laborers into the harvest.”

  00:17:52 And then what comes next? “And when He had called unto them,” this is chapter 10, “He called them 12 disciples.” So remember all of these followers are called disciples, and of that group of disciples, He’s going to call 12. “And he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness, and all manner of disease.” Like we were talking about before.

  00:18:14 And in verses two through four, we get the names of these apostles. And then in verse five, “These 12, Jesus sent forth,” apostle, taken from the Greek word apostolos means one sent. So these 12 apostles are going to be sent forth, “And commanded them, saying, ‘Go not into the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans, enter ye not, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

  00:18:37 And now I think verses seven and eight are incredibly important against the backdrop of what we’ve just been looking at. “And as ye go, preach saying, ‘The kingdom of Heaven is at hand.'” Exactly what Christ was just saying, “Heal the sick.” Exactly what Jesus just did. “Cleanse the leper, raise the dead, cast out devils, freely ye have received, freely give.”

  00:19:00 One of the reasons why I wanted to look at it through this perspective is, in Matthew chapter 10, part of the apostolic charge is, “Go, and do the things that you just saw me do, teach, preach, heal.” And do all of these things with His power. And I love verse 19, “When they deliver you up, take no thought how, or what you shall speak, for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the spirit of your father which speaketh in you.”

  00:19:27 There’s obviously a number of other directives and encouragement within this chapter, but the point that I feel like is so important here is, at the heart of this apostolic charge, Jesus is saying, “Go and do what you’ve seen me do, teaching, preaching, healing, perform these miracles. Freely ye have received, freely give. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.”

  00:19:46 We are enjoying the banquet, to go back to the previous day, we’re enjoying the banquet right now. It’s time, now take this message out to the people. You’re sent forth to deliver this message, and in that process heal those who stand in need.

John Bytheway: 00:20:00 That’s great. The teaching, preaching, healing thing keeps coming back, and looks like Matthew crafted it that way on purpose.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:20:08 Yeah, exactly. And again, going back to what we said at the beginning of our conversation, you really get the feel that Matthew is bearing this beautiful, unique testimony, and doing it in a brilliant way, and a sincere way, and I hope that that testimony resonates with us as we look at his words.

Hank Smith: 00:20:25 This is something to look for, as we discuss this chapter 10, right out of the Come Follow Me Manual. The instructions Jesus gives in Matthew 10 to his apostles can apply to us as well, because we all have part in the Lord’s work. What power did Christ give His apostles to help them fulfill their mission? How can you access His power in the work you have been called to do? As you read the commission Christ gave to His apostles, you might receive impressions about the work the Lord wants you to do. So, I think that’s something we can watch for as we continue on through this chapter.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:20:56 Yeah, absolutely. And let’s just jump ahead to verse 37. Again, there’s a lot in here, verse 37. “He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me. And he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. He that taketh not his cross and followeth after me is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it, he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.”

  00:21:18 Do you remember when, was it Lynn G. Robbins who talked about the caution of not inverting the two Great Commandments? The Great Commandments are love God, and love others, and we just have to be careful that we’re not inverting those, and worrying more about others, and perception of others, than we are about God. And I think that that’s at the heart of this charge, as well.

John Bytheway: 00:21:38 That’s not multiple choice. Love God, love your neighbor. “Pick one.” No, it’s both.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:21:45 Yeah, exactly. And I want to actually jump over to Luke’s account for a minute here, as we talk about the charge to the apostles, and Hank, to that great point that you brought up from the manual, this idea of all of us being called as disciples, and there’s relevance, and application for all of us.

  00:22:02 I want to look at a couple of examples from Luke’s Gospel. In this chapter, there are a number of things that I’m guessing will come up in future discussions on this podcast. So, I want to maybe just isolate two. One of them is, and it’s interesting that it’s in the same chapter in Luke’s Gospel, where the 12 are called. So in Luke nine verse one, “Then He called His 12 disciples together and gave them power and authority over all devils and to cure diseases and sent them to preach the Gospel and heal the sick.” And then it goes on from there.

  00:22:30 But in that same chapter, I want to just highlight a few experiences that we see from these apostles. So, you can imagine these apostles, they’ve been called all of 10 minutes, I don’t know how long it really was, but a short time, and they’re sent forth to do this work that is way bigger than any of them.

  00:22:47 And we have this experience in Luke nine verse 38, where this man cries out, “Master I beseech thee, look upon my son, he’s mine only child. Lo, a spirit taketh him, and suddenly he crieth out, and it teareth him that he foameth again, bruising him, hardly parteth from him.” And then he says, “And I besought Thy disciples to cast him out, and they could not.”

  00:23:08 They go forth with this charge. I am sure that they were feeling excited and on fire with this. “Yes, let’s go do this.” And we know from earlier in the account that they did see miracles, and they did see healings. But for whatever reason, they struggled with this experience. And in verse 51, “Jesus answering said, ‘Oh, faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you and suffer you? Bring thy son hither.'” And then Jesus performs the miracle.

  00:23:33 So right here we have an example where the apostles don’t quite live up to what they were hoping to do in that one moment. And then, look in verse 44, “Let these sayings sink down into your ears, for the Son of Man shall be delivered into the hands of men.” But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not, and they feared to ask Him.” So they’re not quite getting what it is that He’s teaching them.

  00:23:59 And then verse 46, what comes next? “Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest?” Right? Who’s Jesus’ favorite, or which of us is going to be greater here or in the next life? And then jump down to verse 52, “He sent messengers before His face, and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans to make ready for Him. And they did not receive Him, because His face was as though He would go to Jerusalem. And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, ‘Lord, wilt Thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them even as Elias did?” But He turned and rebuked them,” like you almost picture Him patting them on their head, like, “Thanks guys, you know not of what manner you are.”

John Bytheway: 00:24:37 Not the right way to go.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:24:39 Yeah, yeah. “No, we’re not doing that guys. But thank you for throwing that out.” One New Testament scholar, Julie Smith highlights particularly in Mark’s account, we are introduced to the fallibility of these apostles. I mean, a lot of these that I’m going to read here are found in others, including what we just looked at in Luke, but this is what Julie Smith wrote.

  00:24:57 She said, “We see Jesus’ disciples making significant mistakes. They don’t understand the parables, they don’t understand what Jesus teaches. Peter rebukes Jesus for His teachings. They fail when they try to perform miracles. They argue about who’s best. They ask for positions of honor. Judas turns Jesus into the authorities. The disciples fall asleep when Jesus asks them to watch. Peter denies that he knows Jesus. The disciples all flee when He’s arrested, and the women leave the tomb in silence.”

  00:25:25 And then she says, “In the Gospel of Mark, but again, I would suggest it’s present in all of the gospels, Jesus’ disciples are far from flawless. Instead, they are learners who repeatedly stumble.” So a couple of implications that I just wanted to highlight. One is, just as we’re asked to believe in, sustain, and learn from infallible, ancient apostles, we’re also being asked to sustain and follow living prophets and apostles, even in their own fallibility. None of them are claiming to be perfect.

  00:25:51 And then implication number two, recognizing that the Lord is willing, and able to use fallible disciples anciently. And again, going back to Hank’s point, I sure hope that that means He can use us. Obviously not in an apostolic capacity, but as disciples, as ministers within our respective callings.

  00:26:09 There’s that great Elder Holland quote where he says, “Be kind regarding human frailty, your own as well as those who serve with you, in a church led by volunteer, mortal men and women, except in the case of His only perfect begotten Son, imperfect people are all God has ever had to work with. That must be terribly frustrating to Him, but He deals with it, and so should we.”

  00:26:29 “And so” he says, “When you see imperfections, remember the limitation is not in the divinity of the work. As one gifted writer has suggested, ‘When the infinite fullness is poured forth, it is not the oil’s fault if there is some loss because finite vessels can’t quite contain it all.’ Those finite vessels include you and me, so be patient, and be kind, and be forgiving.”

  00:26:51 One of the passages we’re familiar with, Moses 1:39 where He says, “This is my work, and my glory.” And then in the Book of Mormon, Second Nephi, “I am able to do mine own work.” And then I love in the Doctrine and Covenants, when the Lord is speaking to David Whitmer, He says, “And thou art David, and thou art called to assist.” Like, “You’re the assister, that’s your job. You’re going to be my helper.”

  00:27:12 And it reminds me of this from Elder Christofferson. He says… And this is taken from a leadership enrichment series talk that, it’s so good, he says, “I like to say sometimes when I’m talking to leaders that in a way, as weak and imperfect as we are, it’s a wonder that the Lord lets us touch anything, but He does. And Him letting us help is what helps us grow. I think sometimes we’re a little like a three-year-old, he sees his dad painting a door and it looks like a lot of fun. So he runs up, ‘Dad, let me help, let me help.’ And dad’s thinking, ‘Well, I know what kind of help this will be,’ but he loves him, and so he gives him a brush, and we’re there if we’re this little child painting, as long as our attention span lasts, and then off we go, and dad is left to fix the help.”

  00:27:53 “Sometimes I think that’s kind of how the Lord mops up after us in a way, when we make mistakes, because he is always looking to build us as the word goes on, and in the end, of course, we are the work.” I love that idea, that as we read what starts with this apostolic charge, “Go and do the things that I’ve asked you to do, preach, do the things that I’ve done, preach the gospel, heal all them that are sick,” and they go out, and they see miracles. But along the way, they also stumble, and the fallen nature, mortality, all of this plays in, and how grateful we are that it is God’s work.

John Bytheway: 00:28:25 That reminds me of, “My servant, your eyes have been upon Joseph, instead of your eyes have been upon me.” Right? “Your eyes have been upon Joseph, his imperfections you have known, and his language you have known.” And it’s like, you’re looking at the wrong thing. Joseph was constantly getting corrected. Peter was constantly getting corrected. I’m glad you brought that up. They’re learning. And one of the things that I’ve noticed in this study is that John the Baptist seemed to hit the ground running. He had the Spirit from the womb, but the 12 really went through a learning process. Where’s that Julie Smith paragraph? Was that a Sperry?

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:28:59 No, it’s a New Testament Commentary Series. So, she wrote the volume on the Gospel of Mark. And in fact, can I share a little kind of anecdotal story to underscore this, that maybe we will connect back to again, what Hank mentioned regarding all of us have these responsibilities, but how grateful we are that God is in charge of it all?

John Bytheway: 00:29:16 He lets us. He has to fix the help.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:29:19 Exactly. We’re this little kid and He is like patting us on the head, “Hey, do you want to be my helper?” And we say, “Yeah,” and He lets us do our thing, and then He cleans up after us. But, as a missionary, I had been out for about nine months, and we were invited to work with a single mom who had three children who had gone less active. And we started teaching her, and it didn’t take long, she and her family started coming back to church and experiencing the blessings of the Gospel.

  00:29:41 And then we later find out that there’s another woman living there who is a single mom as well, in her early 30s, and her name is Veronica, and she had a little two-year-old daughter named Josie. So, we learned that Veronica is living there, she has quite a bit of anxiety. She was really uncomfortable. When we would show up, she would go back into the back room. She didn’t want to talk to anyone. She really was anxious, and avoided talking to really anyone.

  00:30:09 So, one of the days when we were visiting this other family, Veronica actually comes to the door. And so, we start talking to her, and she says, “Elders, would it be okay if I had the rest of the lessons?” Now, I’m not the brightest person in the world, but I thought, “The rest of the lessons presupposes you’ve had a lesson, and we haven’t had any.”

  00:30:27 And so it turns out that when she was supposedly going to the back, she was sort of going around the corner, and listening in on our discussions, as we met with this other family. We start teaching Veronica, and she commits to be baptized. She changes some things in her lives, and she commits to be baptized. And so when we’re making the plans for the baptism, she says, “Is it okay if it’s just us at the baptism, and nobody else?”

  00:30:50 “We can do it, but the ward is here, they want to be there, they want to support you.” And she says, “But they’ll be looking at me.” And I was like, “Fact, they will be, but in a supportive way. They want to support you in this incredible covenant that you’re making.” And she says, “Okay.”

  00:31:06 And I said, “Veronica, I promise everything’s going to be okay. I’ve got this. We’ll go. We’ll set it up early, everything’s going to be just fine.” And she’s like, “You promise?” And I said, “I promise. We’re going to make sure that things are ready.” Because again, she has this anxiety.

  00:31:18 So we go early, we had to get a key because this particular chapel was newer. You and our audience probably remembers, a lot of baptismal fonts are a big bathtub. You turn on the hot and cold water, and it takes seven hours to fill up these baptismal fonts. So, in this one it had a key, and it was automated, so you turn the key, and it just automatically fills the font to where it would need to go.

  00:31:41 But only one person had the key, and that was the high counselor, and he wouldn’t give it to us. He came down and filled up the font, and we got there early, and we’re talking to Veronica and everything is good. So, as we’re getting ready to go to our seat, this man comes up to us, this older gentleman, and he says in his kind of broken English, “Elders, this is my granddaughter,” and there’s this cute little eight-year-old girl in a white dress. And he is like, “Maybe you could baptize her today too.” And I was like, “I mean, that’s not exactly how it works. Is your bishop here?” And he points to the corner and there’s this guy going this, “That’s my bishop.”

  00:32:14 And we’re like, “Okay.” So we go talk to him and he says, “Yes, I’ve interviewed her. Yeah, we can baptize her.” And I thought, “Sure, wonderful. We would love to baptize your granddaughter today.”

  00:32:23 So, the meeting begins, we sing the opening hymn, have an opening prayer. There are two talks that are wonderful. And in the middle of the second talk, one of the counselors in our bishopric, he’s sitting on the opposite side of the room, and he starts whispering across the room, “Elders, psst, elders.” And we look and we’re like, “This guy’s giving a talk. What are you doing?” And he is like, “No, elders.” And he is sort of signaling with his hand down at his ankles and saying, “The water.” And I was like, “Yeah, there’s water. It’s a baptism. What do you mean?” And he is like, “No, the water, it’s gone.”

  00:32:58 Now, I don’t know if you have a lot of experience with baptism, but water’s a pretty significant part of the whole thing. So, we’re like, “What do you mean the water’s gone?” So the person giving the talk just kind of uncomfortably closes. We go and look, and sure enough, the water is drained. And so now there’s this much water, and we believe in baptism by immersion. So, unless you’re flat Stanley, that’s just not going to cut it.

  00:33:21 So we start talking and what are we going to do? Remember the only way we can fill this up is with this key. So, we go to this guy who has the key, the high counselor, and we’re like, “Hey, can you come and do this?” So he shows up, but he’s nervous. So he turns the key, and he is like, “I don’t know if it worked.” And so he turned it again, and he turned it again, and he turns this key five times. Every time he turns the key, it’s telling this system, “New cycle of water, new cycle of water, new cycle of water.”

  00:33:50 So water starts coming in from all of these jets in this font, and the font just fills up really quickly. It’s about to overflow. I go in, pull the plug, and we’re able to maintain kind of a status quo, but the jets are continuing to blast water in this whole time. So, I lean over to Veronica, and she’s like, “What’s going on?” I was like, “Hey, it’s fine. Totally fine. I’m just wondering though, would you be interested in doing this tomorrow maybe?”

  00:34:18 And then she says, “No, we’re here. Let’s just get it over with.” That’s what every missionary wants their new convert to say, “Let’s just get this baptism over with.”

John Bytheway: 00:34:26 Get it over with.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:34:26 So we go and we open the double doors. Okay, so picture this, hot water’s blasting, there’s glass, the double doors have been shut. We open them, and it’s completely fogged over. And so I have to get up and squeegee the glass, that witnesses have to be in the font in order to see us, because they can’t see in the glass.

  00:34:45 Remember that little eight-year-old girl? See here’s my own little Marken sandwich. That little eight-year-old girl comes in, the water’s like up to here on this little girl. It was the easiest baptism ever, I just took her head and kind of dipped it to the side, and she goes off, Veronica comes in, the jets are blasting, nobody can see us, or hear us, except the witnesses. She goes that way. I go this way.

  00:35:07 So, we come back out, change, and we have one more talk, and another hymn in prayer. And I’m thinking, “That has to have been the worst baptism in the history of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and it’s been around for a long time.” And I just felt like a complete failure.

  00:35:24 And I got into the parking lot and I see Veronica walking toward me, and she’s smiling, and I’m thinking to myself, “That’s got to be an evil smile. She has to be angry at me right now, because I assured her everything’s going to be fine.” And she comes up to me with this smile, and I didn’t know what to say. And so just kind of uncomfortably, I was like, “Well Veronica, how was it?”

  00:35:46 And she looks at me and I’ll never forget this moment, she looks me in the eyes with this smile and she says, “Elder Sharp, I finally feel clean.” And I thought, “Wow, God is really good at what He does.” I messed up pretty much everything that could have been messed up in that experience, and yet He did His work. And so as we talk about fallibility, apostles, fallibility of disciples, I am so grateful that this really is God’s work, and we are called to assist, and we get to help, but He really does come in and mop up after us, as the work goes on.

John Bytheway: 00:36:22 Wow, that’s great.

Hank Smith: 00:36:24 That is. I read this calling in chapter 10, and I just think, who would want this calling? The things that the Savior says.

John Bytheway: 00:36:35 Oh man, I know.

Hank Smith: 00:36:37 “You’re going as sheep in the midst of wolves.” Verse 19, “When they arrest you, don’t worry about it. Don’t worry about what you’re going to say.” Verse 22, “You’ll be hated of all men for my name’s sake. And when they persecute you, not if, when they persecute you in one city, run,” like run “to another. Fear not them,” This is verse 28, “Fear not them which kill the body.” And it reminded me of a quote from a Prayer for the Children from Elder Holland. He says, “Do our children know we love and sustain local and general leaders, imperfect as they are, for their willingness to accept callings they did not seek in order to preserve a standard of righteousness they did not create.”

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:37:20 I love that.

Hank Smith: 00:37:21 I love your story that, oh, no one wants to be in charge of that, because no one wants to mess it up. And yet, He still calls imperfect people.

John Bytheway: 00:37:31 That’s all He’s got.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:37:34 Can I go back to Luke nine?

Hank Smith: 00:37:36 Please.

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:37:38 So in Luke nine, we find some passages after the encounter where the apostles are saying, “Who’s the greatest?” And then he takes the little child, and then He says, “He that is least among you all, the same shall be great.” That’s Luke 9:48. And then in verse 51, it says, “And it came to pass when the time was come that He should be received up, He steadfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem.”

  00:38:00 In Luke’s gospel, this is the common theme. He is slowly from this point on, making His way to Jerusalem. I just love that phrase. “He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem.” He has His own responsibility, His own sacred mission, and He is fixed. And there is nothing that’s going to keep Him from fulfilling that. It probably shouldn’t come as a surprise then that earlier in this chapter, back in verse 23, this is similar to the language we found in Matthew 10.

  00:38:30 So, this is Luke 9:23. “He saith to them all, ‘If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it, but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall find it.” And then jumping over now to the last part of Luke nine, in verse 57, “And it came to pass that as they went in the way, a certain man said unto Him, ‘Lord, I will follow thee withersoever Thou goest.'”

  00:39:00 I love that phrase. I think all of us have felt that at some point. We have an experience, we have an impression, and we think, “Here’s my heart, O take and seal it.” Like I will do anything that you want me to do. I will follow thee withersoever Thou goest.”

  00:39:13 “And Jesus said unto him, ‘Foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man hath not where to lay his head.’ And He said unto another, ‘Follow me, but,'” and I circled that, “‘But,’ he said, ‘Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.’ And Jesus said unto him, “Let the dead bury their dead, but go thou, and preach the Kingdom of God.'”

  00:39:35 Now that sounds pretty harsh, and it may be that it is exactly like it reads here, but some scholars have suggested that perhaps what we’re talking about here is what’s known as the second burial, where a year after a person dies, they move their bones, and so maybe it’s not quite as painful of a process, where, “My dad just died, do I really have to go now, or can I stay here to be with my family?” It might be that that’s what we’re talking about here, is this second burial.

  00:40:00 But again, “Follow me,” “But let me first go and,” and then verse 61. “And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee, but let me first go bid them farewell which are at home at my house.” And Jesus said unto him, “No man, having put his hand to the plow and looking back is fit for the Kingdom of God.”

  00:40:17 So this idea of, “Lord, I will follow thee withersoever Thou goest.” It’s like, “I will do anything you want me to do, but let me first do this.” And the call of the Savior is to a call of consecration. President Nelson just recently reiterated the teachings from President Benson. “Men and women who turn their lives over to God will discover He can make a lot more out of their lives than they can.”

  00:40:39 Elder Maxwell once said, “It would change the entire church.” By the way, when an apostle says that I perk up, “It would change the entire church, if in every ward we could have just three or four more families who became truly consecrated disciples of Jesus Christ instead of just being active in the church.”

  00:40:57 We sometimes differentiate between less active, and active. Elder Maxwell is saying the goal is not just to be active in the church. The goal is to be a consecrated disciple of Christ. “Lord, I will follow Thee withersoever Thou goest.” I love that commitment. Just as Jesus steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, He invites us, steadfastly fix your face toward whatever it is that He’s asking us to do at a given time.

  00:41:25 So this passage ends in verse 62, “No man, having put his hand to the plow and looking back is fit for the Kingdom of God.” And just this idea of, “Lord, I will follow Thee withersoever Thou goest.” It’s a consecrated heart. It’s a recognition that God can make more out of my life than I can, and so I am going to give him everything. Everything that I am, recognizing that He will make me who He needs me to be.

  00:41:47 So I love that idea, and it reminds me of one of my heroes, my mission president and his wife, president Dirk and Carrie Smibert, they’re from Australia. I served in New Zealand, I had a mission president for six months, and then President Smibert, and Sister Smibert and their family came to the mission field. And he was relatively young, in his, I think early 40s, and was sort of told and cautioned and said, “Look, when you go, get the lay of the land.”

  00:42:11 He was an entrepreneur, he was a marketer, he was kind of a mover and shaker. And someone sort of wisely gave him the caution. “Now, don’t make a whole bunch of changes right away. Just settle in, get a feel for things, and then do what you feel to do.” And I’m sure he thought, “Thank you, that’s great counsel.” But within three months, the entire mission was changed.

  00:42:28 Areas were open, some areas were shifted. Zone leaders were now companions. We had fewer missionaries in some of the islands that were part of our mission. He came in and just changed everything. And when he would come to these zone conferences, he just had this ability to speak, and testify and just light the room on fire. It was powerful, and transformative for all of us, especially for me.

  00:42:52 At the end of my mission, we have our exit interview, and I sit down with him, and we’re sitting, and he pulls his chair closer, so now we’re knee to knee, and his face is almost uncomfortably close to my face at this point. And he sits down and he says, “Elder Sharp, before you go, I want to give you some counsel.”

  00:43:09 And I just thought, “President, anything. Whatever you tell me to do, I’m going to do.” And the first piece of advice was something about marriage, and then the second piece of advice, he said this, he said, “Elder sharp, always make yourself available to serve the Lord.”

  00:43:26 And at the time I thought, “Thanks president. That’s that’s really good counsel, and I appreciate it.” And it wasn’t until later that I realized how impactful that phrase has been in my life. Always make yourself available to serve the Lord. Since that day, that phrase has been the primary filter through which I’ve made almost every decision in my life, beginning with who I chose to marry.

  00:43:51 I chose to marry my wife because she was somebody who was as committed, and consecrated as I hoped to be, and she inspired me. I knew that if we were married, we collectively, together, would build a family, making ourselves available to serve the Lord. And then every decision we’ve made as a couple since that day has been made through that filter. “Is this going to help us be more available to serve the Lord?”

  00:44:14 It’s impacted us physically. We try to stay active, and fit, because we want to make sure that if God wants us serving with the young men, or young women, that we can go on these hikes, and camp outs, and things like that. It impacts us spiritually, certainly, we strive to be worthy, so that we can serve when and where He wants us to serve.

  00:44:34 Financially, we try to make smart financial decisions, so that doesn’t get in the way. Even intellectually. One of the primary motivators in pursuing graduate school, and a PhD was we thought this may put us in conversation with some people that we may not otherwise be able to be in conversation with, and may have opportunity to build the Kingdom, and to be available to do some good. All of these things.

  00:44:57 So, that was impactful. Really what has meant the most to me is as I look over the life of my mission leaders, President, Sister Smibert, they lived exactly what Luke nine is talking about, and exactly what the end of Matthew 10 is talking about. Not saving my life, giving my life to the Lord, and trusting that he can make more of it than we can.

  00:45:23 And so I mentioned earlier, he was called to be mission president in his early 40s, and that’s a three year calling. At the end of that time, my wife and I were actually getting married, and it was the night of our reception, and he and his wife were still serving as mission presidents in New Zealand. And it was the end of March, March 29th, and we’re at our reception, and my mission president shows up at the reception, and I’m thinking, “President, you’re a little bit out of your boundaries. Utah is not within the Auckland New Zealand mission boundaries.”

  00:45:53 And it turned out he was there because he was called to serve as an Area 70 in the Pacific. He served for five years, faithfully. That calling assumes that you still have a job, and that you can give whatever extra time you can to the calling. And for he and his wife, they had positioned themselves to where he did some things for work, but I mean by and large, he was full-time in this calling, ministering, and blessing the lives of the Saints in Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, and other areas there.

  00:46:21 In fact, he was doing so much that at the end of the five years they said, “Typically this is a five-year assignment anyway, you could extend for another year.” He and his wife, “Yeah, of course, absolutely. Where do you want us?” And they gave him other assignments and he continued doing some incredible work in Papua New Guinea. In fact, when a temple was recently announced in Papua New Guinea, I just had to smile, recognizing that it was a lot of the work that they did down there that helped pave the way for that.

  00:46:47 At the end of that time, he was still in the middle of some projects there. So they said, “We know that you’ve served for six years now. Can you serve a little longer? Keep doing this.” “Yeah, absolutely, of course. Where do you need us?” And then they continued that conversation.

  00:47:02 So after that time, they go back, they have a little condo across from the temple in Australia, they get settled in, and then they get a phone call from Salt Lake saying, “Well, there’s a mission president in one of the other missions on the other side of Australia who’s become really sick. We’re still training their replacement.”

  00:47:18 This is November or December. And the new mission president’s coming in July. “I know we’re asking a lot, but is there any way, any way that you could go and serve as mission president for the next six, seven months over in this mission?” I mean you know the answer at this point. “Yeah, for sure. When do you need us there?” “Tomorrow.” “Yeah, we’ll be there. Absolutely. We’ll pack up.” And off they go, and they serve faithfully again.

  00:47:41 Sometime after that they’re called to serve in the temple together, and then he is called to be the temple president of the Brisbane temple. During that time, he is diagnosed with cancer, and this cancer comes, and just wipes him out. He was the most fit, active person that I knew, but cancer just doesn’t care. And so, this cancer comes and just wipes him out. And I get a phone call from his daughter one day, as my wife and I are driving on the freeway, and his daughter calls, and tells me that the doctors aren’t giving him much time left, I think they said four months, or something like that.

  00:48:14 And I just begin to weep, as I’m talking to her, and we hang up, and my wife, while we’re driving, she says, “I think you need to go and see him before he passes away.” And I just looked at her and I said, “I love you.” And so we booked a flight. And the only way we could pull it off, because it’s a day there, and a day back travel wise, so it really gave me a day and a half with work to be able to be down there.

  00:48:37 And so I called him and I just said, “Look, I don’t want to impose on the family. I recognize that this is a really sensitive time for everyone.” And I’m close with the family, but I just wanted to be respectful. And I said, “If I could even just get one hour with him at some point in this period, it’s worth the trip.”

  00:48:55 And they said, “Of course, but we can do better than that.” So they picked me up at the airport, take me to the hospital, and here is this man who’s one of my spiritual heroes, sitting in a wheelchair, and his physical body, just failing. His spirits are bright, he’s smiling, and I give him a hug, and just start talking to him.

  00:49:14 He kept this same fire, this same determination through the end. In fact, he was supposed to perform a sealing for some of his former missionaries, and the doctor said, “You’re not going to be able to do that.” And he’s just like, “Whatever.” And he sort of wheels himself out of the door, and out of the hospital and goes and performs this sealing for this couple.

  00:49:35 So after the hospital, we end up going over to their condo after that and just visiting for a few minutes, and there were some others there as well. And then it was the next day where some of the others who were there went to take a nap, and I was just there with my mission president. And he said, “Should we go to my office?” And I said, “I’d love to, president.”

  00:49:52 And so we go into his office, and I sit down, and he wheels himself close to me, knee to knee again, for almost like another exit interview. And I said, “President, you probably don’t remember this, but in my exit interview as a missionary, you said something that has changed my life.” And I said, “You told me, ‘Elder Sharp, always make yourself available to serve the Lord.'” And I said, “I have to tell you, that has impacted everything that I’ve done since that day.”

  00:50:22 And then he said, “I do remember that.” And he said, “And that’s it.” He said, “That is the message. If we make ourselves available to serve the Lord.” And then he said, “There is nothing more thrilling than being a part of the work of the Kingdom of God. There’s nothing like it in this world.” And he just bore this sweet testimony.

  00:50:40 And then he said, “Can I give you a blessing?” And I’m thinking, “Here I am with my mission president, who’s weeks from passing away, and he’s going to give me a blessing.” And so he puts his hand, one hand on my head, and he can’t quite get… He’s not strong enough to get the other hand on my head, and so he just puts it on my shoulder, and then he proceeds to give me one of the most beautiful, personal, and powerful blessings that I’ve received. And in it, he just reiterated, “Make yourself available to serve the Lord. God is going to make more out of your life than you possibly can.” And he just emphasized that there’s nothing as thrilling as the work of the kingdom of God.

  00:51:21 And it was powerful. And I was talking to his wife, Sister Carrie Smibert, awhile later, and she said, “Just watching him at the end,” he ended up passing away within weeks of that visit. But she just said, watching him at the end of his life, she just looked at him and she said, “Do you think I’ve done enough? Do you think I’ve done enough?” And she said, “Sweetie, yes, of course, yes. I think you have done enough.”

  00:51:47 And this is true to his personality. He said, “Is it bad that I’m excited to find out what my next calling is going to be?” After he enters the spirit world. And that’s his heart. He is just so consecrated, and faithful to the kingdom. So, when I think of these passages, “Lord, I will follow Thee withersoever Thou goest.” I just think of that. If I make myself available to serve God, He really can do whatever it is that He wants with me. And in that process, we can become the men and women of Christ that He knows that we can be. I love this message, and I love that example from my mission president.

Hank Smith: 00:52:23 Wow, what a guy.

John Bytheway: 00:52:25 I heard somebody say once, “The best ability is availability.”

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:52:30 Yeah, powerful idea.

John Bytheway: 00:52:32 Thanks for sharing that.

Hank Smith: 00:52:33 I had a question for both of you. Jesus says these same things in Matthew 10 that He was saying in Luke nine, about making yourself available. But then He says something interesting in Matthew 10. He says, “Think not that I’m come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace but a sword. For I come to set a man at variance against his father, and daughter, against her mother and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a man’s foe shall be of his own household.” And then He goes on to talk about being available, “If you love your father and mother more than me, you’re not worthy of me.” What do you think the Savior means here, both of you?

John Bytheway: 00:53:10 That is a verse that, here’s Jesus who is the Prince of Peace, and then He’s saying, “I’m not come to bring peace.” And I always think about what’s right now, and what’s eventually, eventually that will… It’s like all of the beatitudes are, “Blessed are the, present tense, because there’s a future.”

  00:53:29 And I think, yeah, right now He is the Prince of Peace, but that’s an ultimate outcome, and destination. And in fact, in the Come Follow Me Manual, there’s a quotation from Elder D. Todd Christofferson, and he commented on this verse, he said, “I’m confident that a number of you have been rejected, and ostracized by father and mother, brothers and sisters, as you accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ and entered into his covenant. In one way or another, your superior love of Christ has required the sacrifice of relationships that were dear to you, and you have shed many tears. Yet with your own love undiminished, you hold steady under this cross, showing yourselves unashamed of the son of God.”

  00:54:13 And I think there’s so many reasons to hang on, and to hope on that ultimately this title of the Prince of Peace, that will come. But boy, in the meantime, and this must have been hard for them to hear, as we’ve talked about. What do you think, Ryan?

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:54:29 I think that’s spot on, and I think that’s really insightful. Ultimately, the blessing for the individual, and for the family is going to come in following Christ. And He knows that. And I think that’s at the heart of the invitation to come. And then the passage, “He that findeth his life shall lose it. He that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.” And in that process, we become who it is that He’s helping us become.

John Bytheway: 00:54:54 I remember going to Angeles in my mission, and my zone leader there, who later became my companion, but he pulled me aside, and said… Mentioned his companion. I won’t mention his name, but he just got a letter from his family that they were against him joining the church, and everything, and they took all of his possessions outside, and burned them. And I was just stunned, and the contrast of having a mom and dad that’s supportive, and brothers and sisters writing me letters, and what this elder was going through, he had nothing but what he was wearing, and in his room. And it was quite a humbling lesson for me to say, “And look, he’s here.”

  00:55:35 And his attitude was, because my zone leader told me, he says like, “Are you okay?” And he said, “Let’s go to work.” I was just like, “Wow.” It helped me to see that sometimes people will say religion is a crutch for the weak, but I like what Paul said. It’s a sword, and sometimes you have to lean on it, but it’s a weapon to get through tough times like that, because he had to lean on it, but it gave him strength, and power. His Testimony of Christ was not a crutch. It gave him strength and power to go on. And it blessed me too, because he had nothing, and this was one of those experiences like yours, Ryan. It just was so humbling, and changed me.

Hank Smith: 00:56:17 Wow. Ryan, before we let you go, I think our listeners would be interested in your journey as both a scholar, and as an active member of the church. So, what’s that journey been like for you?

Dr. Ryan Sharp: 00:56:30 Thank you for asking that question, because I feel strongly about this. Elder Maxwell coined the term a disciple scholar. He talked about how we have our residency and citizenship in the Kingdom of God, and then our scholarship allows us, like a passport, to visit other places, ultimately, it’s a disciple scholar.

  00:56:49 And for me, again, I guess to draw from Elder Maxwell, he once referred to the Gospel as the inexhaustible Gospel. And I’m sure you’ve all experienced the same thing, where once you dive into something you realize just how little we actually know, and that leads to more questions, and more searching, and then an article about this, and then that leads to you researching a number of other topics, and insights, trying to understand, especially when we’re talking about ancient Scripture. My training is not in ancient languages, and ancient Scripture, and so I’ve had to spend a lot of time immersed in scholarship, and immersed in the words of those who are fluent in original Greek, and Hebrew and things like that.

  00:57:29 And it’s been incredible for me. It’s been faith bolstering. The more I’ve studied intellectually, and academically, the stronger my faith has become spiritually. It really is this symbiotic relationship, and as my testimony is deepened, and my faith is deepened, that leads to more questions, and that leads to more searching, and more research, and more writing. It’s an incredible journey.

  00:57:53 I’m grateful for the work of so many, and then the small contributions that I get to make, particularly when we talk about studying scripture. One of the points of emphasis in my scholarship is looking at a pedagogical angle to some of these things. Looking at a block of Scripture and saying, “Okay, well what do we do with this? Obviously there are important lessons to be learned here.”

  00:58:14 So I’ve found great value, and hope, and peace, and healing as I’ve tried to understand, exegetically, what did these things mean to these writers, and their original audience, back in, for our purposes here, first century. Now moving forward for us, what does that do for me?

  00:58:32 Think of the examples we’ve looked at today. Think of the man with palsy. Think about the woman with the issue of blood. Think about Jairus, and his experience, and his daughter’s experience, and some of these other miracles that we’ve been discussing today. These are transformative. After an encounter with the living Son of the Living God, nothing is ever again to be as it was before. My experience has been that immersing myself in scripture, and scholarship provides me more of those experiences with the Savior, and that’s been transformative in my own personal journey of faith.

Hank Smith: 00:59:04 Beautiful. Well said, Ryan, thank you so much for being here today. We loved having you on followHIM, and we look forward to having you back someday on followHIM. So, we’re definitely big fans. FollowHIM are big fans of Dr. Ryan Sharp. We’re grateful for you.

  00:59:20 We want to thank all of you for listening today. We want to thank our executive producer Shannon Sorensen. We want to thank our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, and our founder, the late Steve Sorensen. And we hope all of you’ll join us next week. We have more New Testament coming up on followHIM.

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