Hank Smith: 00:01 Welcome to followHIM, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come, Follow Me study. I’m Hank Smith.

John Bytheway: 00:09 I’m John Bytheway. We love to learn. We love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you as together, we follow Him.

Hank Smith: 00:19 Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of followHIM. My name is Hank Smith. I’m your host. I’m here with my happy co-host John Bytheway. John, we are studying the beatitudes today. Blessed are ye, and I’ve read in my Scriptures that the Latin for beatitude, meaning to be fortunate or to be happy. I thought of happy, and that’s you. You are a happy guy so-

John Bytheway: 00:43 On most days.

Hank Smith: 00:44 … take that for what it’s worth. Yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:45 Thank you.

Hank Smith: 00:47 On most days when your back isn’t hurting.

John Bytheway: 00:49 Right.

Hank Smith: 00:49 We are studying the greatest sermon in the history of the world today John, the Sermon on the Mount, and we brought a Bible expert. Who’s with us?

John Bytheway: 00:57 Yes, we did. He’s been here before. So, our listeners and our watchers might recognize Dr. Lincoln Blumell. Let me briefly reintroduce him. He received a bachelor’s degree with honors in classical and early Christian studies from the University of Calgary, a master’s from the University of Calgary in religious studies focusing on ancient Christianity, and a master’s from Oxford Christ Church in Jewish studies, a PhD from the University of Toronto and religious studies, early Christianity. Before coming to BYU, he was visiting assistant professor in the Department of Classical Studies at Tulane in New Orleans. New Orleans, Nawlins. Will you pronounce that for us? Nawlins, right?

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 01:35 Yeah, Nawlins. Yeah.

Hank Smith: 01:35 New Orleans. Yeah.

John Bytheway: 01:42 Go, Taysom Hill and the Saints. His areas of expertise include the New Testament, Second Temple Judaism, history of ancient Christianity until the Byzantine period, because language is biblical Hebrew, reading Sahidic Coptic, classical Greek, Latin, French, and German.

Hank Smith: 01:59 Wow.

John Bytheway: 01:59 So, I’m feeling like the dumbest guy in the room today, but that’s impressive. I did want to mention he’s the editor of a book called New Testament, History, Culture and Society: A Background to the text of the New Testament, that’s a religious study center publication. We’ve talked about that before. Go to rsc.byu.edu. So wonderful to have this kind of scholarship, faithful scholars writing about these kinds of things for people who want to go even deeper. Welcome back Dr. Blumell. Thanks for joining us.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 02:33 It’s a pleasure to be back. Thank you so much, John, for the introduction. Hank, it’s great seeing you.

Hank Smith: 02:37 Yep.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 02:37 No pressure at all. You know, the greatest sermon ever so-

John Bytheway: 02:40 I know.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 02:42 Yes, I’m already kind of feel set. I’m like, how am I going to possibly live up to this? I’ll do my best, but yes, it is a great sermon indeed. We’re just going to do part of it today.

John Bytheway: 02:51 So, we’re in Matthew 5 and Luke 6. That’s what the Come, Follow Me manual is having us look at today. Matthew 5, yeah, that’s the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount and the beatitude.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 03:01 So, you have this Sermon on the Mount, which is the longest discourse that Jesus gives that we have recorded. The second longest is also in Matthew. It’s the Olivet discourse. When you read Luke 6, you realize, right, beginning around about verse 17, you have what appear to be sections of this kind of that would correspond with Matthew 5, Matthew 6, Matthew 7, but if you all start reading Luke elsewhere in his gospel, like even in Luke 14 or Luke chapter 16, you will find other sayings and teaching that overlap with what you have in the Sermon on the Mount. Luke seems too, there’s some division of this perhaps, and then of course, we can’t forget, we also have a version of this sermon, not exact. There are some key differences of course in 3 Nephi 12 through 14. Then, as you read in the New Testament elsewhere like James or other works, you can periodically find references back to this sermon or teachings that clearly are derived from this sermon here on the Mount.

  03:59 Really remarkable sermon. For Matthew’s gospel, it is really front and center. When you read Matthew, it seems to me as I read Matthew’s text, he presents things in chunks. So, you start off with the genealogy. Then, we have the birth, and then we have the baptism in three, and then the four is kind of the beginning, calling of some disciples. Then, you have, right, starts performing miracles. Now, we get into five, and now, it’s framed with this long sermon. Then, after the sermon, he details the end of four, just Jesus performing miracles but not telling us. Then, he’ll start telling us right away in eight, now here are the miracles, man with leprosy or a centurion’s child. He’ll go into that.

  04:37 He organizes his gospel in that way where Luke kind of moves things around. Again, that shouldn’t really be surprising when you read the prologue in Luke. So, when you read Luke chapter 1 verses 1 through 3, he actually says that if you read this carefully, he won’t go back into this, but he says, “Look, a couple things. I’m not an eyewitness” If you read carefully, he’s saying, it says, “But I’ve consulted eyewitnesses, and I’ve consulted sources, and I’m going to put it in an order that I think is appropriate.”

  05:03 So, Luke’s telling us from the start, “I’m editing this material, and I’m putting it in order.” So, it shouldn’t surprise us that Luke might have some things in different place than you have in Matthew, what you find a bit more spread out and Matthew has here in this one section. Now, something that’s interesting is you start off in Matthew 1:1, and you have, and seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain. Then, you go over at Luke 6:17 and says, “And he came down with them and stood in the plain.”

  05:28 People have wondered, what is going on here? There’s clearly some overlap with the material. Do Matthew and Luke have completely different understandings of the topography of the region? Don’t think so. What I think is going on here and what I would say is when you think of the Sermon on the Mount or the material in the Sermon on the Mount, I would imagine that Jesus gave this sermon or versions of this sermon in multiple places. To pick up Dr. Seuss here, he gave it on a mountain, in a plane, on a train, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

  05:59 What you have now is Matthew says, “I want to make sure I focus on the one that was given on a “mount.” That’s important for him. Why I think that’s important for Matthew to accentuate here a mount is when you read Matthew’s gospel, I think what he’s trying to do is I think it’s pretty clear it’s written primarily for a Jewish audience, right? You started genealogy. It’s the gospel just loves quoting passages from the Old Testament. It will do that just repeatedly more than any other gospel. It tends to get into Jewish legal issues more than any other gospel. We might pick up on that a little bit later today.

  06:35 What’s pretty clear here with this is he wants to accentuate parallels, I think, with Jesus and Moses. For example, Moses as a child, his life’s threatened. They’re in Egypt. Jesus is taken out of Egypt. You find these things that are going on, and I think now with Jesus and the law, well, Moses receives a law on a mount. Now, Jesus will be giving a law, expanding a law on a mountain. So, I think that’s why Matthew wants to select that. Then, of course, Luke, that’s not a focus, right, to try to parallel or accentuate a life of Moses, I think for his readership, and so okay. You can now have this here.

  07:09 I think the best evidence that Jesus is giving us multiple occasions is the Book of Mormon because He has the Book of Mormon. Now, you have another version of this given. So, when I served a mission and probably when you did, we had missionary discussions, and in discussions, you’d find sometimes we would give a quick discussion on somebody’s doorstep or don’t give a full discussion, but we hit three or four key points of that discussion. We do that again and again. I think with the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew’s giving the fullest version of this, but these teachings could be taught … They don’t have to be taught as an entire unit. They could be taught individually. I think Jesus would be doing this on multiple occasions, so that would account for some of the differences here certainly between Matthew’s and Luke’s account and at least initially with context of why a plain and why here you have it on a mountain. I think Matthew wants to emphasize that there right at the start.

  07:52 Now, what’s interesting with the Sermon on the Mount is you do get a fair amount of JSTs, more so I would say in chapter 7. There are, of course, some in chapter 5 we’re looking at today. Something I’ll just mention because I don’t think we’ll have time to go through all of the JSTs, we’ll certainly mention some of them, is it seems to me when you look at the JSTs is that in a number of cases, what they do would actually parallel what you have in the Book of Mormon rendering of this.

  08:18 For example, you start off in Matthew 1:2, “And he opened his mouth and taught them saying. Blessed are the poor in spirit,” in Matthew 3, but what the JST does is it actually adds blessed are they who believe on me. Again, blessed are they who shall believe on your words when you shall testify that you have seen me and that I am, and it goes on and talks about blessed are they who believe on your words and come down to the depth of humility and be baptized in my name and shall be visited with fire, with the Holy Ghost and shall have remission of their sins.

  08:46 So, if you actually go over to the Book of Mormon, you’ll find the parallels here are quite close. Here, it’s about starting off with the beatitudes, and we’ll talk about what a beatitude is here momentarily, it really frames this with believing, hearing the words, really listening. In fact, it’s interesting here. It’s like where he says even more blessed are those who believe on your words, kind of an echo here of John 29 where you have him talking to Thomas. “So, you’ve seen me, but more blessed are those who have not seen me, yet will believe.”

  09:13 It’s picking up this language, then really frames it. Well, what I would say with the doctrine of Christ in the JST, Book of Mormon, there’s baptism. You’ll be visited with fire and the Holy Ghost. I think that’s important to consider as you’re reading this. This JST kind of frames it in this way with this emphasis here on, again, baptism, gift of the Holy Ghost, much like you find in the Book of Mormon there that the JST kind of parallels their verses, end of verse 1 and 2 and 3 Nephi 12.

Hank Smith: 09:39 This is really helpful stuff, especially that parallel to Moses. I can absolutely see that. I can see Matthew starts out with a man named Joseph who has many dreams. Then you’ve got the Pharaoh who goes after the children, and you’ve got Herod going after the children, and God protects him in Egypt. Then, God parts the Red Sea, and you have God speaking at Christ’s baptism. Moses spent 40 years in the wilderness. Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness. Then, the Sermon on the Mount comes about the same time in Moses’s story where he’d go up on the Sinai and receive God’s law. So, we’re getting a second Moses here as it were. Do you think Matthew was after that?

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 10:18 I think for his readers, it’s not here’s a new Moses, but I think the readers start reading this and saying, “Aha. Oh, this sounds like Moses. Oh, this sounds like Moses. This sounds like Moses.” Oh, we’re now giving a new law. You have these expansion of law. So, I think the careful reader would see this. Matthew does these kinds of things. So, just for example, just jumping ahead in Matthew, you have in Matthew 4 before we begin the sermon is that Jesus performing all these miracles, but again, we’re not told which miracles he’s performing, and then all of a sudden, we’re being told now in Matthew 8 to 11, well, now this is what he’s doing. We’re having leprosy, we’re having centurion’s child, we’re going to have the dead raised up.

  10:52 You get to the episode, you read a couple chapters beyond Sermon on the Mount, and all of a sudden, the disciples of John come. They want to know, well, who are you? Jesus starts saying, “Well, go tell John this is happening. The poor having the good news preached to them, the dead are being raised up, the blind are having their sight restored to them.” Matthew just narrated all those miracles previously.

  11:11 I think it’s pretty clear here, it’s going back to expectations of when the Messiah comes based on what you have on Isaiah, these are the things he’s going to do. I think a careful reader would be like, “Oh, my goodness, we’re expecting this, and look what Jesus is doing.” I think there are dozens and dozens, probably hundreds of miracles Matthew could have picked, but he’s selective, saying, “I’m going to pick these ones,” because the careful reader will begin seeing this as opposed to, “I’m going to tell you, you will come to your own understanding just like Jesus tells the disciple John. “Well, go back. Tell John these things are happening.” For the reader, like okay.

Hank Smith: 11:42 If you know your Old Testament, all of a sudden, things are coming out to you. Someone who doesn’t know their Old Testament very well, their Hebrew Bible, they wouldn’t see, but Matthew is speaking to those who have read that book.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 11:53 I think very much so, assuming people have a knowledge of Israelite history and the Old Testament where Luke doesn’t take that for granted as much, nor does Mark to some extent. You’ll even find this in stories. So, in Luke 6, before you even get into the Lukan material, you have a story of the disciples going and taking grain from a grain field on the Sabbath. That story also appears in Matthew 12. It’s really worthwhile at some point to go and read the Lukan version 6 and then the Matthean version 12.

  12:23 You can see how you have a much larger story that is constantly engaging with the Old Testament. It’s quoting Hosea. It’s talking about the temple in Matthew. Again, it’s like … Well, we don’t need to put in all these examples. Yeah, we’ll mention the reference to David going and taking shewbread, which wasn’t lawful, but because of expedient circumstance, it was okay, and then drawing a parallel saying, “Well, in like manner, what Jesus is doing is because of expedient circumstances, it’s okay what they’re doing,” but Matthew is … It more pains to say, “Well, there’s this. Something greater than the temple has come,” and cites additional passages, which I think clearly have to appeal to a Jewish audience wherefore Luke, it’s like, “I’ve made my point, okay, in this story, and I can now move on.”

  13:00 I think that becomes clear when you compare sometimes the stories or you could say the pericopes, the little pericopes of Jesus between Matthew and Luke. So, that’s how I read this here is that there’s a framing of you’re thinking Moses, when you see Jesus and Matthew.

Hank Smith: 13:14 Yeah, up on the mountain. I really like that.

John Bytheway: 13:16 I’m so glad you mentioned the Book of Mormon and baptism. Sometimes, when I’m in Matthew 5, I ask my students, “Hey, where’s the first principles of the gospel? Where are they?” The answer is always they’re there in the JST and in the 3 Nephi version where perhaps even the first beatitude, blessed are those who will come and be baptized, they’re there, and maybe that’s in verse one here of Matthew 5, his disciples. If they were disciples, can we say that they may have been baptized already? That’s maybe implied because first principles are really first principles. Well, where are they? Yeah, they’re there especially in 3 Nephi and then, these other common beatitudes to both begin.

Hank Smith: 13:57 Yeah, this has been a fantastic start. When some people picture the Sermon on the Mount, they picture thousands of people there, but I wonder, does he have that many disciples at this point? What do you picture in your head, Lincoln? Do you picture a few or a lot or …

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 14:14 Couple things. When you read the gospels, the way I read the gospels anyway is it always focuses primarily on the 12. In the Luke verse, he actually mentions the 12, the calling of the 12. You get that in Matthew 10, but here in Luke 6, he mentions that and then all of a sudden, he starts to teach. What’s very clear though, I think, is the gospel kind of focuses on the 12, and occasionally, somebody else is mentioned, but there must be more that are there. I think the evidence here is in Acts 1, right? They’re going to call a new apostle because Judas has taken his life. Peter says, “Well, the qualifications here ought to be this person, first off, should have been there from the baptism up until basically the death, and then be witness of the resurrection.”

Hank Smith: 14:49 So, there’s other people there definitely.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 14:51 They’re there like Mathias who is ordained an apostle, apparently, he’s been there all long. He’s never mentioned a single time in the gospels. So, I think there are other disciples there. This word you have in Greek, it’ll empirically mention ochlos like crowd. The crowds were there. I’ve looked a little bit at this, how big is a crowd? When you look at Greek literature, you’re looking anywhere from dozens, even into the hundreds. Of course, it could be somewhat bigger than that, so it’s hard to say.

  15:16 So, I would just be inclined, this is more than just the 12 are there, but there are other disciples and others there, but in terms of numbers, other followers, people that are listening … and it’s interesting because in the Matthew 4, which precedes this, again, it says there are great crowds coming to Him. Well, something to consider hearing, our chapter divisions we have are completely artificial. These are not put in our New Testament until the 13th century by the Archbishop of Canterbury. So, you just kind of read this right through. So, sometimes, I think it gives us artificial break. Oh, it ends. Oh, something new is happening.

  15:47 It doesn’t have to be that case. It could be He’s healing, there’s crowds, and now, He starts speaking. So, that’s just worth just considering sometimes. It breaks it up and gives an artificial gap that doesn’t always kind of bear out in the text. I do take, there’s more than 12 here that there are certainly others who are there and are listening.

John Bytheway: 16:03 It sounds in verse 1, like He saw the multitudes and left. Seeing the multitudes, He went up into a mountain. When He was set, His disciples came unto Him. It’s not the entire multitude that’s there, but it’s the disciples. That’s what we’ve been talking about. How many disciples is that? The 12 plus more.

Hank Smith: 16:22 12 or more. It’s a great question. I just wondered what I see in my head versus what you see in your head and see if I had the right picture.

John Bytheway: 16:29 See if I have the right head.

Hank Smith: 16:31 Yeah. Oh, man, that could be argued. Just how many are there? It’s impossible to know, but I like that that Matthew 4:25, “There followed Him great multitudes of people from Galilee, from the capitalist, from Jerusalem, from Judea and beyond Jordan, and seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain, and when He was set, His disciples came unto him.” So, it doesn’t sound like everybody went, but it sounds like those serious disciples went with Him up on this mountain side.

John Bytheway: 17:01 Hank, you used the word followers, which I like. Some followed him when He went up into the mountain.

Hank Smith: 17:06 All right, so let’s jump in, Lincoln. What do you think about these beatitudes?

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 17:10 Well, we start off, of course, in the Book of Mormon. Blessed are those who believe on me. If you think of a beatitude, the Latin beatus, blessed, happy, fortunate, what you’re getting here is the Greek’s Macarius. This person is blessed, even happy, but what you’re finding here is it’s not just some kind of just, well, you’re happy if you do this, you’re happy if you do this. It’s saying you want to be blessed, you want to be happy, go and do these things. It’s an injunction to go and do.

Hank Smith: 17:36 Oh, okay.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 17:36 Where you’re getting this from is if you go back and read the Psalms, the Psalms actually begin, the Psalm 1:1. “Blessed is the man or the person that walketh not in the council of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.” So, the Psalms, you’ll find a number of places where you have effectively beatitudes. It’s an injunction to go and do. Who doesn’t want to be blessed? Who doesn’t want to be happy or fortunate? So, this is what you go and do saying if you want to be blessed or fortunate, happy, here’s what you ought to do. I think it’s very appropriate with the JST is, first of all, believe on me. That’s the source.

John Bytheway: 18:12 Faith in Christ. First principle, right?

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 18:14 Faith in Christ. First principle. You see it right there in the JST. Then, as you, of course, get into the Matthean text with this, the very first one we have, blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. This is interesting. Again, going back to the JST, we take poor in spirit as humility, humble, but the JST adds who come unto me. That might be interesting here in light of our previous conversation. There’s a lot there, but then the real disciples actually come and listen.

Hank Smith: 18:43 His disciples came unto Him, and so He might be giving them a shout out. Blessed are the poor in spirit who come unto me.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 18:50 Come unto Him. I think that’s important. Yes, I guess humility is a good attribute, but I think being humble and then coming unto Him, I think this is saying, “Come unto me. You want to be blessed. You want to be happy. The source of happiness is Christ. In all things, come unto me, all of you that are heavy laden. I’m going to give you rest.” Here, it’s like I will bless you.

  19:10 So, I like that JST, how that adds that in there and maybe kind of thematically for a second here, if we think of verse 3 in terms of the issue here of humility, and then you just jump ahead just to 5 for a moment, “Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth,” I’ve once heard the difference between meekness and humility is meekness might be more of a voluntary humility perhaps. So, they are kind of similar here in this. By the way, this beatitude right here is taken right from Psalms 37:11, “But the meek shall inherit the earth.”

  19:42 He’s picking up on some of this in the text, and something that I find interesting, at least from the Greek word meek, it means gentle, right, meekness, but here is something that may be worth considering, a facet of this word, right, it’s the Greek word praos. It can also mean fashionable. What’s it mean by fashionable is that you can be molded because you’re gentle, you’re soft. So, I think something the disciples are blessed is if, you know what, Lord, I will let you fashion me. You can mold me. I can be an instrument in your hand. This is really, I think, appropriate as we get to the crescendo here of this chapter in 5:48, being perfect. We’ll talk about that, what that means, but I think I say being fashionable, God can mold you, you can do this, you will inherit the earth. Little different but also quite similar there with the 3 and 5, with poor in spirit and then with being meek.

Hank Smith: 20:34 Moldable. Blessed are the moldable. Blessed are those who will be shaped.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 20:40 Yeah. You can find a principle like this, right, whether it’s in Proverbs or in Hebrews. God chastens those whom He loves. He will mold you. It might be hard sometime. You might be kinda… There might be a lot of rigor mortis in you spiritually speaking, but that’s a, no, I’m going to move you. If you’re moldable, I can make something more of you. I think there’s something really beautiful in the beatitudes in that verse.

Hank Smith: 20:59 What was it that Joseph Smith said? “I am like a huge rough stone, rolling down from a high mountain, and the only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in contact with something else, striking with accelerated force.” So, Joseph Smith’s saying he’s moldable. He says, “Thus, while I become a smooth and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty, becoming moldable.” I like that.

John Bytheway: 21:23 My son, Andrew, came to me once. Remember, he’s maybe 15 or 16. “Dad, I think the church is trying to turn us into a bunch of meek little choir boys.” So, I punched him as hard as I could and … no, I’m just kidding.

  21:37 I don’t think that’s what meekness means. It was a really good kind of an adventure for us to try to figure out, what does it mean to be meek because the dictionary.com definition is not, I think, what Jesus was saying. It says a spiritless, tame, overly compliant, submissive. That does not sound like Captain Moroni, that if all men would be likened to Moroni, the very powers of hell be shaken forever. It didn’t sound like Moroni was, “Okay, well, go ahead and attack us. I guess that’s okay.” That’s not what Captain Moroni did. It was a really fun thing for us to go through that.

  22:12 One of my favorite definitions I found was from S. Michael Wilcox, who we’ve had on the program. He tells a story in an Ensign article and says, “Meek is great power under complete control.” He quotes someone who says that in the article, which I really liked. Meekness is great power under complete control because Jesus was meek that way. Then, Elder Bednar came out and gave this whole talk on meekness and said, “It’s not weak. It’s not passive. It’s tough to be meek.” I can’t give you a perfect paragraph right now, but Elder Bednar totally answered our question about what meekness is.

  22:48 I love that discussion because I don’t think Jesus was meek the way the world defines it as spiritless and tame, and neither was Captain Moroni but fashionable, that is a great … Not really into high fashion, but what you’re saying fashionable is, is able to be fashioned. I’m willing to be molded and changed by Christ.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 23:10 That’s a facet of the meaning that could be worked with. Yeah, really beautiful beatitude. Of course, we go back to four, right, because we kind of jump from three to five. This is a really beautiful one. “Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted.” Here, there’s nothing directly quoting a Psalm here like you have in 5, but something I find interesting here is this word, for those who mourn shall be comforted.

  23:35 Just a little note on this, the Greek, right, I’m always going back to these Greek words, and there’s some interesting things here, right? You have this Greek word, for comforted, it’s from this verb, parakaleo. You have this parakletos, which means comforter, advocate. They’re related, and so you’re reading Greek, you of course see this. It’s interesting that the two people in the New Testament that are called a comforter are the Holy Ghost in John 14:26 and then Christ in 1 John 2:1.

John Bytheway: 24:02 The advocate.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 24:02 The advocate or a comforter, using your related word that’s used here. We’ve talked about seeing Christ in the Old Testament. Well, can we see Christ more in the New Testament? Here, right, this idea of comforting, you’ll be comforted. If you look at a root here, relying on the spirit and upon Christ can bring real comfort and peace. So, it’s not obvious in the English of it. In Greek, you read that, and say, Oh, this is related to this word. Both these people are called this in the text. I think we can see with the peace and comfort that comes from having the Holy Ghost, relying on Christ.

Hank Smith: 24:34 So, the word comforted is a noun, comforter, which would draw me close to Christ and the Holy Ghost, both who have been called comforters in the New Testament.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 24:44 With the related term, we have the verb with the related noun, the Holy Ghost is called the Comforter in John 14:26, and then Jesus, called the Comforter in 1 John 2:1. So, I think that’s interesting here that these are some titles they bear. So, you may be able to think about, how do I get comfort? Well, through Christ, through feeling the Spirit, through feeling that peace.

Hank Smith: 25:04 We might say they shall be comforted by the comforters.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 25:08 Think about it that way. There may be something there. It’s interesting, of course, when you go over to Luke, what He does this, He says, “Blessed are ye that weep or cry,” He says, “for ye shall laugh.” He was trying to say for those who are in mourning, there will be days of rejoicing ahead. So, a little bit different, but it’s the closest parallel that we have. It’s not exact. Jesus may have mentioned that, or Luke’s rendering of this a little bit different but yeah, you have comforting, bringing the Spirit, at least in Christ here in the Matthean version, I think it’s certainly worth considering.

Hank Smith: 25:38 Okay.

John Bytheway: 25:39 I have a question about mourning because I think most of us, when we see the word mourn in English, we’re thinking about a death, a funeral, those who are mourners. I have read both that we are mourning our own sinful state. Perhaps that’s what the beatitude means. I think it can apply both ways, but I don’t know, what’s the Greek on the word mourned? Is this like a death of someone, or is it our own sinful state, our own spiritual death perhaps?

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 26:07 It’s this Greek word pentheo. In the Lukan version, it’s a different word. It’s actually for crying or weeping. You can have lament. When I think lament, a death or something bad has happened. I think that’s kind of implied in this word, a death, the sickness or something, saying even when these hard things, whether there’s a death, a sickness, you can find comfort, you’re not left alone. We’ve all experienced periods of real mourning, real loss. I know that I have profoundly, and the thing that brought me the most comfort was the gospel. In some ways, almost inconsolable at times, but now, the one thing I know is I’m a son of God. I know Christ loves me, and I feel His peace. I don’t know why all this other stuff’s happening, but I know that, and I’m going to get through this, and so I felt comfort.

John Bytheway: 26:51 President Boyd K. Packer used to say this little poem, and I’m not remembering the author. “I walked a mile with pleasure. She chattered all the way but left me none the wiser for all she had to say. I walked a mile with sorrow and not a word said she, but oh, the things I learned from her when sorrow walked with me.”

  27:10 I’ve always liked that when I see that beatitude there. Some of our greatest lessons come from difficult times, not just our happy times. That’s what’s kind of fun about these beatitudes. Happy are the sad. Jesus sounds like he’s saying, “Happy are the unhappy.” Can you imagine, Hank and Lincoln, a reporter down there, if I mix my time zones a little bit before Jesus gets up to speak, “So, who are the happiest people to you?” “Oh, they’re well-off, they’re secure. They’re employed. They are self-confident,” and Jesus gets up, and it’s, “Welcome to opposite world. Blessed are the poor.” So, like, what? Blessed are they that … What? What? Blessed are the meek, and turns ordinary ideas about happiness just upside down. That’s why I love this because it was, I think, so different than what your average folks would think happiness is.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 28:07 Yeah. First century. This is not an easy life. Life is short. Life is hard. For many people, it’s hand to mouth, your food, you’re not really living ahead. You’re living day-to-day for many people. So, I think people had a very tough existence, certainly a physically tough existence. So, I think the things he’s saying, people can say, “Yep, you’ll do this, but you will find real peace,” could have been … Well, it’s really appealing. You look at this, that poem you mentioned. I don’t think Jesus is engaging other philosophies, right, whether it’s Epicurean, stoicism, or others, but there are other answers out there that try to offer, “Well, this is what you do. You seek pleasure. This is what you do if you really want to do this,” or there’s others, you seek no emotion.

  28:44 Jesus is not saying get rid of emotion, you’re going to have this, but you will find peace and comfort in hard times, and you’ll be blessed. I think there’s a very powerful … would’ve resonated with them and really timeless, right? Resonates today, of course. I think our challenges can be certainly different, probably certainly not as physically challenging and we might say spiritually, emotionally, very challenging, but yeah, I think that would really resonate with the audience that he’s speaking with, given life circumstances.

John Bytheway: 29:12 We read a verse, and there was a famine in the land. We just go right past it, but imagine a famine, the insecurity, the, what am I going to eat today? What am I going to feed my children today without refrigerators and preservatives? I’m glad you just said that. We’re in the first century. What’s life back then for these people? Yeah, that’s a good … Try to put yourself in that frame of mind. That’s a tough life. Like you said, short too. I don’t know what the average lifespan is in the first century.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 29:41 Demographically, the best evidence we have from inscriptions, tombstones is once you hit your 30s, 40s, you’ve lived a pretty full life in your 40s. Again, of course, for women, infant mortality. A lot of people give birth, will die, and again, just things like us, we just take for granted. Oh, you just go to the doctor. Infections, they have no idea. We get infection, like no big deal. Take some penicillin, you’ll be fine. These life-threatening. People are surrounded by death in that world. You see it. For us, we’re kind of shielded from it. Yes, you go to funerals here and there, but it’s much more there. So, I think these things about really being comfortable when you mourn because I think there’s certainly some lamentation mourning. People really knew that. I think feeling that, it would really recognize the power in that.

Hank Smith: 30:22 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 30:23 Thank you.

Hank Smith: 30:24 This reminds me of the Come, Follow Me manual. It says, “Everybody wants to be happy, but not everyone looks for happiness in the same places. Some search for it in worldly power and position, others in wealth or in satisfying physical appetites. Jesus Christ came to teach the way to lasting happiness, to teach what it truly means to be blessed.” What do you learn about obtaining lasting happiness from Matthew 5, 1 through 12? How is it different than the world’s view of happiness? It seems like that’s exactly what we’ve been talking about today is this. What’d you say, John? Welcome to opposite world where He gives His: here’s what happy people are and do, and it doesn’t probably seem like those things that you would automatically think of.

John Bytheway: 31:07 Like conventional wisdom. Yeah.

Hank Smith: 31:09 Yeah. I would think happy people have a lot of money, have big houses and things, and He doesn’t say anything like that.

John Bytheway: 31:16 Yeah, He’s, happy are the unhappy. It’s fascinating.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 31:18 Just to pick up on … I know we’re jumping ahead, we’ll cover this, but Matthew 6, you really get this, right? Well, what do you do? Lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven where neither thief break in nor rust doth corrupt. That’s what you do, having this kind of otherworldly gaze, having your priorities. Who are you going to put first? So, it’s beautiful. You won’t get that today, but as you go through, it kind of goes from this, and then you start saying in 6, okay, where really your heart ought to be if you want to find this blessed or happy or fortunate state? Here’s what you should do. So, it’s beautiful. It’s kind of built on as you’re getting 6 and then into 7 in this discourse.

  31:55 Speaking of 6, I guess, verse 6 is another verse that we have, a really important JST, which again will parallel what you have in the Book of Mormon. Blessed are they, which do hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled. The JST and the Book of Mormon had what will be filled, with the Holy Ghost. This is why I kind of like that reference in verse 4, with comforted, you will have the Holy Ghost. This what you’ll be filled with. Psalm 107:9 does kind of hint this a little bit. They don’t mention Holy Ghost, but you will be filled with kind of goodness, so maybe picking up on that a little bit.

Hank Smith: 32:27 Hunger and thirst. That’s such a common feeling. I’m sure for these people, hunger and thirsting is most of their lives, but He says hunger and thirst after what? After righteousness. If it was after ice cream, I would’ve been translated by now, but it’s hunger and thirst after righteousness. That’s a hard one. How hungry are you for things of the Spirit?

John Bytheway: 32:52 This is my favorite of the beatitudes. At least, it is today. I might learn some more things, but because it doesn’t say blessed are the righteous, and I love to explore that idea because it may be technically none of us are, we all need the Savior, but we can hunger and thirst after it. Where’s our heart? The other thing is, how often do hunger and thirst have to be addressed?

Hank Smith: 33:14 Frequently.

John Bytheway: 33:15 Every day. To hunger and thirst after righteousness, we never get to that point where we arrive at this, I don’t think.

Hank Smith: 33:23 Yeah, where you’re like, I’m done eating.

John Bytheway: 33:24 Okay, I’m done, right? I’m righteous now. I’m done eating. I think of the same thing with Scripture study. If we’re supposed to feast upon this, I don’t think anybody in the world has ever said, “You know, I don’t think I’ve had a bite to eat since last Thursday.” They just forgot.

Hank Smith: 33:38 Yeah, yeah.

John Bytheway: 33:38 You don’t forget. Hunger and thirsting, I love the idea because it has to be addressed every day. Jesus doesn’t say, “Blessed are the righteous,” because none of us are, but we can hunger and thirst for it. That gets into that, what is the desires of our hearts? We’re trying to do better, and we stumble, and we fall, but we just keep trying. So, I love that particular beatitude. Then, the Book of Mormon, and as you said, Lincoln, they shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, and striving fills us with the Holy Ghost. Not perfection, but striving fills us with the Holy Ghost. Love that.

Hank Smith: 34:15 Doesn’t it remind you a little bit of Enos, my soul hungered, and then towards the end of his chapter, what does he say? My soul was at rest because of what he was filled with.

John Bytheway: 34:27 Maybe he went hunting because his body hungered, but then his spirit started to hunger, and suddenly, he lost all interest in hunting and prayed all day. It’s a great story.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 34:37 I think, just think of an example is John 4 and John 6 about water, living water. You’re going to be thirsty or the bread of life. I like that. It’s hunger, but you can be satiated, but the directive there used the same imagery with water and bread.

Hank Smith: 34:54 By the bread of life and by living water, you can be filled. What’s next, Lincoln? Verse 7.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 34:59 So, it’s blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy. When I think about this beatitude, what this is kind of makes me think of some initial thoughts. I think in Matthew, I sometimes pose to my students. We talk about, what’s your favorite scripture or what scripture means a lot to you? When you look at Matthew, as I’m going to say, in the gospel of Matthew, what’s Jesus’s favorite scripture? Because there’s one scripture He actually quotes more than any other, and it’s actually Hosea 6:6.

Hank Smith: 35:22 Oh.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 35:23 He quotes in Matthew 9, also Matthew 12. It says, “I will have mercy, not sacrifice, desire the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.” That the part’s not quoted, but this emphasis on mercy is a theme in Matthew, or you can even try as compassion. Blessed are those that are compassionate, they will be shown compassion or merciful. It’s interesting for me that He quotes this more than any other passage, just quoted twice. Otherwise, scriptures are singly quoted. I don’t want to read too much into that, well, that’s his favorite scripture, but for me, it’s interesting that, yeah, this emphasis of mercy here. It’s a theme here, and it’s picked up again in the following chapters, and so that it seems appropriate. Again, there’s not an obvious Psalm that talks about the Lord is merciful, but it’s obviously directly echoing, but yeah. That’s important that you will receive mercy or compassion.

John Bytheway: 36:09 As you give it away. I’ve heard it called the doctrine of reciprocity like a reciprocal. If you want mercy, give mercy. Kind of in the Lord’s Prayer, there’s that. Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 36:23 Forgive our debtors.

John Bytheway: 36:24 That’s one of those that when I realize the level of mercy, forgiveness that I want, it helps me motivate me to be sure to give out what I’m seeking. If I need forgiveness, I’ve got to be more forgiving.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 36:37 In Matthew, this is beautifully illustrated in the parable of the unforgiving. It says servant or steward in Matthew 18. In the story of the 10,000 talents, the point is an unpayable debt has been paid for Him. So, whatever debts are owing Him, He ought to be merciful in those because somebody’s paid for Him an unpayable debt. I think you think of Christ there. We’ve had an unpayable debt made. So, whatever smaller debts are against us ought to be forgiven, but again ties in this reciprocity and certainly here with being merciful, really showing that.

  37:12 It’s interesting again with this emphasis on mercy, certainly, in Matthew as you get into 8, blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. What’s interesting here is it seems to me what’s rallied behind this is Psalm 24. I’m just going to read a couple verses from that. It’s Psalm 24:3, “Who shall ascend unto the hill of the Lord,” or you say the mountain of the Lord, i.e., the temple, or who shall stand in his holy place? Then, it goes verse four, “He that hath clean hands and a pure heart.”

  37:43 It then tells you, well who are those who have cleans hands and pure hearts? A little bit of a definition here, those who don’t have their soul lifted up to vanity, i.e., empty things. We’ve kind of talked about earlier on, having your things that are not ephemeral, maybe that aren’t valued just in the world and has not sworn deceitfully. Then, you get to verse 6, and then you have this is the generation of them that seek Him, then it says, “That seek thy face.” So, you go and you could read some temple imagery in here certainly. It was clearly picking up on the Psalm. Though the pure will see. So, I think you could have an application here of, based on Psalm 24 and this beatitude of the idea of the temple. You have clean hands, you have pure heart, and you see or you feel God very palpably in the temple.

  38:28 So, I think there’s certainly, extending that more, is you’re in a blessed state, keeping your covenant so you can go and do that, and encounter God in Spirit in the temple. I should point out that some later Christian authors didn’t like this so much, kind of seeing God. So, some render this as blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God in their heart but didn’t like the idea quite so much. Anyway, really beautiful. You think of the kind of temple imagery behind this proverb pretty sure from Psalm 24.

Hank Smith: 38:56 That’s fantastic. I was going to mention something, and I’m not sure if it’s still there, but when I was in the Mesa temple last … and it was a while ago, there’s a big gold sign. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. I remember that being so big and striking, and I like how you’ve tied that back to the temple for us.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 39:17 I think, yeah, it’s picking up on that. So, I think this kind of brings more meaning into this beatitude. As we get near the end here, right, we have in verse 9, blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God, those who want to make peace. Interesting because this word doesn’t actually appear elsewhere in the Bible, this word peacemaker, one who actually brings peace, but as I was thinking about this, you really are the children of God, those who want to bring peace. Of course, I thought back to Isaiah 9:6, right, talking about the Prince of Peace, talking about Christ. Let’s be like our prince. Let’s bring peace. Let’s try to establish peace.

John Bytheway: 39:55 It’s kind of a gathering Israel missionary work to teach people of the Prince of Peace, to extend peace that way. It hits me that way that this could be a missionary scripture. Go and teach people about the Prince of Peace like you just said.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 40:09 Yeah, you go and do this. Kind of picking up on that, John, in a few verses, it’ll be very clear, Okay, here’s your state. Now, go and do these things. Be a light. Really go out. You bring this up now, this injunction to really act even beyond what we just have in the beatitudes. As we get to the end here, right, really this unit from verses 10 down through 12, here talks about persecution. Things are going to be tough. So, you have verse 10, “Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Here, JST adds, again, with the Book of Mormon, “Blessed are all they that are persecuted.” Here, it adds, “for my name’s sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” This idea that it’s not going to be easy to be a disciple.

  40:55 It’d certainly be challenging at times. I like, was it from general conference back in, it was October 2021 where it’s talked about waiting on the Lord. He gave that great line where he talks about Christianity. It’s not comfortable, but it is comforting. We’d have a lot of hard times, and it takes some tenacity and even hinting at there’s going to be some persecution, some derision, but it is well worth this, right? So, it says that’s the reward there is monumental. So, as I was thinking about this kind of you are blessed when you’re persecuted for righteousness’ sake or for my name’s sake, yours is the kingdom of heaven. Probably can relate to it various times, experiencing some of this certainly. I think saying it’s disciples, yeah, you’re going to see this. He’s going to build on this, saying the prophets before you had this. So, you should be … Rejoice. Be exceedingly glad.

Hank Smith: 41:41 You’re lining up with the prophets of old.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 41:44 Yeah. It’s funny in Acts where you have the apostles are brought before the Sanhedrin. It says they’re in Acts 4 and 5, right, they’re brought in. They’re threatened, saying, “Stop teaching about this Jesus guy, and if you don’t stop teaching about Him, bad things are going to happen.” This is basically, they flogged them and then sent them out. Then, right after, it says, the disciples pray to God and thank God that they were worthy to suffer shame on account of his name, which I don’t think for people, this is the first thing comes to mind, but here, we’re seeing this. Well, I’m so grateful. I’m worthy to suffer shame or persecution, derision, for your name’s sake. Be saying you’re blessed when this happens.

Hank Smith: 42:18 I look at these 12 verses. You have to wonder if this is what they expected to come from the Messiah. Maybe they did. Maybe being serious disciples, they knew what they were getting, but if I wanted a Messiah who was going to throw off the yoke of Rome and say, “Let’s go to battle,” this would be the exact opposite of what I would hear. Happy are they that are meek. Happy are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness, not revenge. Happy are the peacemakers. You’re going, well, this isn’t maybe the Messiah I thought I was going to get.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 42:51 Well, I think when you read the gospels, the Messiah you don’t think you’re initially going to get, right, because when you think about the gospel of Matthew, right, let’s just say you only have the gospel of Matthew. Of course, we all … Hindsight’s 20/20. We already know what’s going to happen. We know the gospel stories, but you’re reading Matthew. You’re going through this and saying, “Huh.”

  43:05 Then, you get to Matthew 16. They’re up in Caesarea Philippi and Jesus said to the apostles, “Well, who are people saying that I am?” People say, “You’re Jeremiah, maybe one of the prophets.” He says, “But who do you say that I am?” Then, Peter says, “Well, the Christ, the Son of the living God.” It’s interesting the first time in Matthew, then what does Jesus say next? Well, among things He says next is He says, “Well, we’re going to go to Jerusalem. I’m going to be handed over. I’m going to die, but I’ll be raised up in three days.”

  43:28 Then, Peter’s like, “Well, this can’t happen.” Of course, we know, right? You’re rebuked, and get behind me, Satan, but there’s this learning going on, but I think for all disciples, it’s this learning experience kind of line upon line, precept on precept. Once they kind of get us down, he says, “Okay, now I’m going to tell you this is what’s going to happen,” because up to that point in Matthew, if you know the end of the story, you really don’t know what’s going to happen. You don’t say, “Oh, Jesus is going to be crucified.” Of course, we know that because of hindsight, but when He finally says, “Okay, here’s what’s going to happen,” again, there’s this new learning, level of learning.

Hank Smith: 43:54 They don’t seem to pick up on it until … I think it’s John who admits they knew not the saying. Yeah, when it happens, he says, “We didn’t quite know what he was talking about until after the fact.”

John Bytheway: 44:05 Yeah, the gospel’s written after the fact, hey, yeah, He did say that thing. I mean, He did say that he was going to suffer. It’s like, oh yeah. Right up until the trial, Peter’s like, “All right.” Gets out his sword. Let’s see if I can take off somebody’s ear and-

Hank Smith: 44:21 Let’s go to fight.

John Bytheway: 44:21 He’s here. The fight begins. No, no, that’s not that kind of a Messiah. It’s interesting.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 44:25 This would’ve been surprising to some, but as they ponder and think about it, say, okay, here’s what discipleship is. If you really want to be disciples, it’s going to require some hard things, but wow, just think of the blessings. Again, kind of Romans 8, picking up on this where it talks about really becoming children of God, we’re going to go back and think about verse 9. You’re the children of God, He says, to the effect of summarizing here about Romans 8, about 12 to 14 says, “Well, basically, nothing you can experience here and now is possibly equivalent to what God has in store for those that truly love Him and serve Him.” I think we’re seeing this here that, yeah, it’s going to be tough. There’ll be some challenges, but yet, you do this, well, yours is the kingdom of heaven if you’ll endure.

  45:08 So, I think, yeah, really preparing them for what is ahead. As we see, there’s going to be real hardship moving forward in the gospel at time but really beautiful, these beatitudes. You’re probably all familiar with the work by Harold B. Lee. He calls the Sermon on the Mount a constitution for a perfect life. You don’t get to perfect, but yeah, if you really want to be a disciple, and it’s not easy, here are things you ought to really start implementing. The cost of discipleship. I think that’s really illustrated beautifully.

John Bytheway: 45:35 I’ve heard people suggest that there’s a sequence in them, the poor in spirit. I realize I need something. I mourn my sinful state. I’m meek. I realize I can’t save myself. I hunger and thirst after righteousness. I come to Christ. As I’m extended mercy, I extend mercy to others. I see others differently. I’m more pure in heart. I want to extend peace to them. I don’t know if it’s a sequence, but I’m fascinated by that idea that we all go through this sequence that’s in the beatitudes. Have you ever heard that before that it could be a sequence?

Hank Smith: 46:09 It’s in a guide to the Scriptures. Beatitudes, a series of teachings that Jesus gave in the Sermon on the Mount that describe a refined and spiritual character. The beatitudes are arranged in such a way that each statement builds upon the one that precedes it. Then, it talks about the more comprehensive and accurate record being found in 3 Nephi 12 in the Book of Mormon.

  46:30 So, Lincoln, I’ve heard that “the salt of the earth” statement my entire life, and I don’t know if I’ve ever ever truly understood it, but someone will tell me about a town or part of the planet that they’ve been to and this, those people are the salt of the earth. I’ve always thought I know it’s a compliment, but I’m not quite sure why it’s a compliment. So, can you tell us why?

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 46:52 Yeah. Clearly, it’s going back to what you have here in Matthew 5:13 where He tells His disciples basically to be like salt. So, you are the salt of the earth, but what’s interesting here is, again, going back to kind of pick up what John said earlier, JST is important. It doesn’t say you are. It says, I give unto you-

John Bytheway: 47:11 I’m asking you.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 47:12 … to be the salt of the earth. Yes. I’m asking you. So, you’re not righteous. You’re thirsting after it. I want you to strive to be like salt. Okay, really, what does this mean? It says this. Reading the second part of the verse, but if the salt lose its savor or wherewith shall it be salted, it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out and to be trodden under foot of men.

  47:30 Saying, you want to be like salt, right? I’m giving unto you to be this. So, when you think of salt in the ancient world, there’s this famous Latin writer in the first century. His name’s Pliny the Elder. He writes this large book, Natural History, very well known. He ends up being killed at the eruption of Mount Vesuvius.

Hank Smith: 47:45 Oh, wow.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 47:46 Well, he was very curious. What’s going on with this mountain? I better hike up the mountain and see what’s going on. It didn’t end so well when it erupted, but he has this great phrase. He’s very eclectic in this writing about things you should do. He has this Latin phrase. It says [foreign language 00:48:00]. The line is this. He says, “Nothing is more useful to the entire body than salt and sun.” Of course, today we think, oh, you avoid salt, don’t have sun.

Hank Smith: 48:14 Yeah.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 48:15 When you think of the … This is the opposite. We’re like, “Well, what’s he doing here?” but you think of the ancient word with salt. What salt does, of course, it’s a flavoring. You can add this, but one of the principal uses of salt is to preserve or save things. We’re living in a world before modern refrigeration, dehydration, all these things, and so you want to preserve stuff. You salt it. Being like salt, I think in one way, I guess you can add flavor as a secondary thing. You’re going to go out, and don’t be like everybody else. You’re different. You’re going to add this flavor to this, but I think part of it, you got to go and you got to save or preserve things.

  48:50 I think over time, it evolved into this. You’re just good people. You’re the salt of the earth, but I think originally, it’s you bring flavor but you preserve, you save things. How do you do it? Well, you do this by you’re keeping the commandments, not losing your savor. Here’s the question. How does salt lose its savor? When it gets intermingled with impurities. Don’t think of the ancient, they have salt shakers. They’re shaking out salt. You’re dealing with large clumps of salt. You’re probably breaking off, rubbing things like this, and you drop your salt on the ground or a block of salt repeatedly, and all of a sudden, all these impurities get worked into it, it doesn’t work anymore. It cannot preserve. So, as a preservative, I think He’s saying, this is what you ought to aspire to be. You can preserve, and you can save things. I give unto you to be salt.

Hank Smith: 49:34 This is one commentary. These words are spoken to the disciples in their ideal character as the germ of the new Israel called to prophetic work, preserving the earth from moral putrescence and decay. Putrescence and decay, so kind of the antiseptic action of salt.

John Bytheway: 49:52 Prior to my mission, I don’t know how old you were, Hank in 1980, but Elder Carlos E. Asay made this great comment about salt in a general priesthood conference. He said, “A world renowned chemist told me salt will not lose its savor with age. Savor is lost through mixture and contamination. Similarly, priesthood power does not dissipate with age. It too is lost through mixture and contamination. Flavor and quality flee a man when he contaminates his mind with unclean thoughts, desecrates his mouth with speaking less than the truth, and misapplies his strength in performing evil acts.” I just thought it was a fascinating idea that it won’t lose it unless it gets mixed or contaminated. Oh, you guys have probably heard that one before from Elder Asay but-

Hank Smith: 50:40 No, I like that. That’s great.

John Bytheway: 50:41 It’s always in my margin here on Matthew 5:13.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 50:45 I like, was it D&C 101:39?

John Bytheway: 50:48 And 103 talk about savor. Yeah.

Dr. Lincoln Blumell: 50:50 Yes. Yeah. It talks about this … It actually started with the everlasting covenant, and when they have this, they’re accounted as the salt of the earth and the savor of men, keeping covenants. Doing that, you can keep that savor.

John Bytheway: 51:05 Please join us for part two of this podcast.