Hank Smith: 00:00:01 Welcome to followHIM, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I’m Hank Smith.

John Bytheway: 00:00:09 And I’m John Bytheway.

Hank Smith: 00:00:11 We love to learn.

John Bytheway: 00:00:11 We love to laugh.

Hank Smith: 00:00:13 We want to learn and laugh with you.

John Bytheway: 00:00:15 As together, we follow Him.

Hank Smith: 00:00:20 Hello my friends. Welcome to a new episode of followHIM. My name is Hank Smith, I am your host and I am here with my fisherman co-host, John Bytheway.

John Bytheway: 00:00:32 I’ll take that one.

Hank Smith: 00:00:33 Jesus is going to call a bunch of fishermen today and aren’t you a fisherman? Did I guess that right?

John Bytheway: 00:00:39 When I was a teenager, that was one of the things I loved to do the most. I don’t get out much anymore… We have a canoe that hangs in our garage, and guess what it does most of the time? Hangs in our garage.

Hank Smith: 00:00:49 It hangs in the garage.

John Bytheway: 00:00:50 In fact, it’s got Christmas presents in it and stuff we collect during the year, so it’s a storage unit.

Hank Smith: 00:00:57 And I think you wrote a book on fishing, didn’t you?

John Bytheway: 00:00:59 I did.

Hank Smith: 00:01:00 Observations Of A Reel Man. Is that right?

John Bytheway: 00:01:03 Reel, yeah. See that little play on words there?

Hank Smith: 00:01:07 Yeah, you can tell I am a John Bytheway fan, always have been.

John Bytheway: 00:01:11 Your taste will improve.

Hank Smith: 00:01:15 John, we are going to be studying quite a bit of the Savior’s early ministry today, and we needed a Bible expert and we have one who is joining us today.

John Bytheway: 00:01:25 Well, we’ve had Dr. Jan Martin before. We’re so glad to have her back and let me give you a brief bio. She was raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico, home of the New Mexico Bowl. Go Cougars. And Holladay, Utah, where I am right now. And graduated from Skyline, go Eagles. She served a mission for the church in Richmond, Virginia. Married to Jared Martin. She has a bachelor’s degree from BYU in Physical Education and a minor in German teaching, master’s degree in Exercise Physiology from BYU, and Early Modern History from the University of York in the United Kingdom. How cool is this?

  00:02:03 Now, here’s my favorite. A PhD from the University of York of 16th Century English Bible Translation with a focus on the early English reformers. Her research interests include the early English translations of the Bible and early English reformers such as William Tyndale, Myers Coverdale and John Frith. King James translation of the Bible is one of her interests, and the development of language of English theology.

  00:02:33 The Religious Study Center, sometimes Hank, we mention the RSC, they have a website, you can go see some of their publications, but she wrote an article about the King James translation of the New Testament in a New Testament history, culture and society book that was edited by Lincoln Blumell who we also had on the program. But just another great scholar and I’m so curious about the insights we can get from the King James Bible, because I just think it’s beautiful. And we were talking before we started recording just about the beautiful language of the King James Bible, and so I’m so glad to have somebody who is an expert in that area. So thank you Dr. Martin for joining us today.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:03:16 You’re welcome. It’s nice to be here again. It’s fun. Yeah.

Hank Smith: 00:03:18 Yeah, Jan Martin is a friend of followHIM. We love having Dr. Martin with us. Forgive me Jan, but we have so much to cover here. Let’s jump right in. We don’t want to short change any of this. The Come Follow Me manual has us in Matthew 4 and Luke 4 and 5. Where do you want to start?

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:03:37 I just thought we would start in Matthew 4, that’s probably the most well-known version of The Temptations. I think most people read it from Matthew, not so much from Luke. But we can start there and then there’s so much good stuff in Luke, so we certainly won’t leave that out. There’s a lot, they really packed this one in.

Hank Smith: 00:03:55 I really feel for a gospel doctor and teacher or a seminary teacher this week who’s going, “Oh my goodness, how do I do all of this?”

John Bytheway: 00:04:03 Yeah, I think one of the challenges teachers have is not, “What do I teach?”, but, “What do I leave out?”, there’s too much good stuff here. Can we go back to two hour Sunday School now? Just for this week.

Hank Smith: 00:04:16 This is going to be a fun week. I’m excited to kick off the Savior’s ministry here, Jan.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:04:21 Yeah, He’s just been baptized and I’m sure you’ve had some fun with that, and that’s the backdrop, is His baptism. And then, the scriptures don’t always give us a good look at the time in between events, but this going into the wilderness seems to follow quite quickly on the heels of His baptism. So, we’ve got to look at that baptism as the backdrop. Also over in Luke, even though we don’t look at this chapter in Luke 3:23, it gives us that important information that Jesus is about 30 years of age. This kind of is that reference to that legal age of maturity in Jewish society and it’s also the age at which those who were Aaronic priests completed their five-year apprentice, and they had this apprentice like preparation for the temple, their service in the temple. So, this 30 year-old thing is a big deal, and for Jesus to go out into the wilderness at that age and to get things going, His ministry starting and that’s official, it’s important.

Hank Smith: 00:05:23 Yeah, that’s really cool. Well, let’s jump right in Matthew 4, and let’s take it verse by verse and see what we want to do here, Jan, I’m excited.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:05:32 Well, obviously as Latter-day Saints we’re blessed to have Joseph Smith translation and his translations play a really significant role in The Temptations. You kind of get some wrong ideas without them. If you read Chapter Four Verse One, that Jesus was led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil, that gives you some really wrong ideas about the purpose of the Holy Ghost. So, to have Joseph Smith coming in and prophetically saying, “No, He was led up of the Spirit to be with God in the wilderness.”, that’s a significant difference. We need to utilize the JST all the way through here to make sure we’re not getting some wrong ideas about what’s going on. So, that’s the first thing I’d just recommend to anyone, be watching your footnotes, be marking those footnotes so that you can correct some of those interesting misconceptions in what we’ve got with the biblical text.

Hank Smith: 00:06:30 Somebody gave me that advice long ago, to go through and mark all the JSTs in a yellow and it’s been really helpful. Whoever long ago told me to do that, it’s worked, it’s been good to be able to say, “Oh, there’s the yellow marking again. Oh, I’m going to go check it out.”

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:06:45 Yeah, it’s important to understand that the Holy Ghost has many roles, but one of them is to testify of God. But He sanctifies, He brings us to God, the Holy Ghost. So, that’s really important that Joseph makes that change, that Jesus is going into the wilderness to be with God. And that’s what the Holy Ghost does for all of us. It leads us to higher spiritual environments. It helps us be sanctified, it helps us elevate. And so you see that important thing right off the bat with Jesus’s ministry, before He even starts anything, He’s being raised, He’s being elevated, He’s coming close to God. So, I just think that’s really important.

Hank Smith: 00:07:26 Yeah, I think that’s a pretty crucial change. Interesting that right after His baptism, He’s going into the wilderness to be with God, to maybe solidify this experience that He’s had, to take time to really connect with God after His baptism. I think that’s crucial. Sometimes we have these wonderful spiritual experiences and then we kind of just go back to our life.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:07:47 And something that I was reading from one of our colleagues, Andrew Skinner, that I thought was just a really important idea. And he’s saying, that this moment, going into the wilderness, he says is foreshadowing, obviously the millennium, when Christ comes back. And kind of creates this higher environment, the earth is going to be raised back to its paradisiacal state of the Second Coming. He kind of just says, this is kind of an interesting idea that Jesus is going into the presence of God in this sojourn in the wilderness and just be thinking about the millennium that’s coming and the Garden of Eden that was there before. So I loved that. I loved that he made that connection with where is Jesus going, and He’s really going in here to be with His Father.

  00:08:35 And then He’s just gotten the gift of the Holy Ghost with His baptism. Just like the rest of us, we all get the gift of the Holy Ghost in the same way. And even Jesus needs to get the gift of the Holy Ghost, and we sometimes overlook that because He’s the Son of God. But His baptism puts Him into the kingdom of God, it then gives Him access to the gift of the Holy Ghost. So you kind of have this really beautiful idea of the Godhead communing together in the wilderness. So wow, Verse One is just so rich with spiritual meaning when you stop and think about who’s there and what they’re doing.

John Bytheway: 00:09:08 There’s another thing I wanted to mention that our friend and colleague Bob Millet has talked about, I think he calls them High Mountain, Low Valley Contrasts, that right after this, almost theophany, the whole Godhead, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased and the Spirit of God descending like a dove.” Right after that, here comes Satan and he kind of uses that as an idea of, when you have a significant spiritual experience in your life, expect that somebody’s going to try and come and take it away, put a spin on it. In a similar example and there’s probably lots, but just one more, Moses Chapter One, and then right afterwards Satan comes to try to poison it, to take it away. I thought, “Wow, high mountain, low valley experiences right after this baptism, here comes the tempter.” And we should be prepared for something like that.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:10:01 Yeah. And you can use Joseph Smith’s first vision example. That pattern is in the scriptures and it clearly is taught multiple times. And I think it’s Elder Holland who talks about that, I think in his talk that was given at BYU devotional about, “Cast not away therefore thy confidence.” He talks about that all the way through as well. That we can expect Satan to be coming and trying to twist and undermine our powerful spiritual experiences, and that we need to be firm and be confident in those.

Hank Smith: 00:10:31 I have a quote from that talk actually, Jan.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:10:35 Great.

Hank Smith: 00:10:37 We’re all on the same page here, you guys.

John Bytheway: 00:10:39 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 00:10:40 This is Elder Holland and we got the talk right on, Cast not therefore away your confidence. “I wish to encourage every one of you today regarding opposition that so often comes after enlightened decisions have been made, after moments of revelation and conviction have given us a peace and an assurance we thought we would never lose. In his letter to the Hebrews, the Apostle Paul was trying to encourage new members who had just joined the church, who undoubtedly had had spiritual experiences and received the pure testimony of light, only to discover that not only had their troubles not ended, but some of them had only begun.”

  00:11:14 He says, “Paul pled with those new members about the way President Hinckley is pleading with new members today.” This talk was given back in 1999, back to the quote, “The reminders that we cannot sign on for a moment of such eternal significance and everlasting consequence without knowing it will be a fight, a good fight and a winning fight, but a fight nevertheless. Paul said to those who thought a new testimony, a personal conversion or a spiritual baptismal experience would put them beyond trouble, ‘Call to remembrance the former days in which after ye were eliminated, you endured a great fight of afflictions.'” And you’re right, the rest of the talk he goes on to talk about Satan shows up just after these experiences trying to take them away.

John Bytheway: 00:11:59 I was thinking too, of right after the sign of Samuel the Lamanite, the signs that were given it says, “And there were lyings sent forth…” So the spin machine just right away. And I think President Eyring talks about the purpose of keeping a journal is to document the hand of God in your life. And write those down, so that when those times come you can go back to your journal and say, “No, that really did happen. I really did feel that.” And don’t let Satan change it or recolor it or something.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:12:27 Yeah, because he’s going to try to do that. I love the patterns in the scriptures that show that he does that repeatedly. He doesn’t just do it with Jesus or with Moses or with Joseph, he does that. And so, we need to be prepared, and this is a good place to be prepared.

  00:12:42 In light of that, then when you look at Verse Two, that Jesus had fasted this 40 days and 40 nights, I just want to talk about this concept of 40 days and nights in the scriptures, it’s in there a lot, in the Old and New Testament, I think somebody had counted it to be 159 times, you see just 40. And then, the 40 days and 40 nights appears as well. I just want to give us some reminders of how often it’s there. So Genesis Seven, you’ve got the time the rain fell during the ark. You get Exodus 34 with Moses on the top of Mount Sinai receiving the law. You get numbers 13, with Moses sending scouts into the promised land, they’re gone the 40 days. You have Samuel with Goliath taunting the people of Israel for 40 days before David goes out there. So, it’s on and on this 40 days and 40 nights. You have Elijah who fled from Queen Jezebel and took the trip to Mount Horeb, 40 days. You have Jonah, his prophecy to the Ninevites, “It’s coming in 40 days.” And then you have Matthew here with this.

  00:13:46 It’s just interesting to think about this concept of 40. I’ve kind of looked into what scholars have said about that. And there’s some controversy and disagreement, but some have said that in Hebrew this represents a very long time and that we shouldn’t just take it literally, which is interesting to think about. But other people have said that it symbolically represents things like repentance, newness, preparation, self-examination, transformation, and in all of those stories I’ve just talked about, you see those things happening there.

  00:14:21 So then you hit Jesus and you start thinking about 40 days and 40 nights, what is this really teaching me? And it’s about this self-examination, transformation, task fulfillment, nourishment, growth, fulfillment and a new generation of a new life. Jesus is about to embark on a new life. He’s going to come out in the public and He is going to be doing things He hasn’t really been doing. We need to think about this fasting and what it does for us as we enter into new periods of our lives, or new challenges, or want to change something. So, that really helps us see what the symbolism might be with this 40 days, and not just read it as 40 days, there’s more to it here.

Hank Smith: 00:15:05 I love that. I was thinking of the children of Israel coming through the Red Sea and then being in the wilderness for 40 years. And here Jesus has just come out of the water and He goes to the wilderness. I wonder if Matthew is trying to connect us to Moses and the children of Israel.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:15:23 Absolutely, and that’s what Matthew does, that’s one of his motives. But there’s so much symbolism here, is what the Savior’s doing and preparing for, and how his own people He was trying to prepare them from baptismal like experience to entering a promised land and what happens in between those two places. And so, here’s Jesus having that experience. 40 days, 40 nights is a really fun connection to the Old Testament, to all those stories of the past and then what’s happening here with preparing Jesus for a rough time. This is not going to be easy. His ministry is full of all sorts of lovely experiences, but He’s persecuted and threatened and accused and is going to end in crucifixion, lots to prepare for us.

  00:16:06 It’s just really nice to think about that and then to pause and think, “How often do I utilize fasting to assist me with things of great importance to me?” I went and looked at general conference talks that cite Verse Two, just to see what leaders of the past were saying about fasting. And many of them are pointing out that what’s going on here is Jesus gaining inner strength, spiritual power, He’s utilizing fasting so that His mortal body might be subjected to His Divine Spirit. And you just see this repeated theme that fasting helps us discipline our bodies to do hard things. And so, when we’re faced with some hard things in our own lives, it’s worth really thinking about, “How could I utilize fasting to help me be able to discipline myself that may not want to do hard things, to be able to do hard things that my spirit wants me to do.”

John Bytheway: 00:17:05 Boy, but none of us I think would be expected to fast for 40 days and 40 nights. Who can actually do that except for someone like the Savior, whether that’s literal or not. I have a hard time fasting for 40 minutes, but 40 days and 40 nights. So I guess we would say that’s because He was Divine and He could do that.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:17:25 Yeah. But something Elder Delbert L. Stapley said many years ago, he’s given this talk in 1951, but I loved his comment. He said, “I know that Jesus’ spirit was humbled, His soul was sanctified, it gave Him the moral strength and the spiritual power to resist the temptations of Satan. It also prepared Him to go forward and complete the great mission that God has sent Him on earth to perform.” So, what a plug for thinking about fasting and trying to get past the, maybe starvation feeling that we have once a month, and then really start using it as a preparatory experience for difficulties and for things that we would like to improve on or whatever. So wow, you just look at Verses One and Two and we’ve had just really great things to think about with spirituality and preparation.

Hank Smith: 00:18:18 That’s Alma 17, right? The Sons of Mosiah had given themselves to-

John Bytheway: 00:18:23 To much fasting and prayer.

Hank Smith: 00:18:25 … and they had the spirit of prophecy and the spirit of revelation, I think it says.

John Bytheway: 00:18:30 That’s a good point, Hank, because when I teach Book of Mormon that, “Oh, they had testimonies, they saw an angel.” Oh, that was just the beginning. Other people saw angels too, that was just the beginning. But after that, what did they do? Oh, they fasted and prayed. They studied the scriptures. They really prepared themselves and the angel was just the beginning, but their testimony didn’t come from that, it came from what came afterwards.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:18:52 Mm-hmm. I was teaching about the Sons of Mosiah just a couple days ago, was the last part of my Book of Mormon class. But I had a student just mention, here comes Aaron and he’s been imprisoned and beaten and starved, and he comes out of there and then he goes to teach King Lamoni’s father without batting an eyelid. And the student just said, “Most people I know had they been imprisoned and beaten and starved would just have given up and gone home and said, ‘I’m done.'” You have to stop and ask yourself how do you forgive all of that? And just mildly, go on to your next area, teach your next investigator.

Hank Smith: 00:19:26 You’ve been transferred out of prison.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:19:28 But I would argue that this fasting and praying that they’re doing is helping them put aside that natural tendency that we all have to be offended, to be hurt, to be unforgiving, to hold grudges, to give up and go home. When you think about King Lamoni’s father, he was the one that was overseeing those laws of imprisoning those people. And so then Aaron goes over to teach him and you’re just like, “How do you even turn the other cheek like that?” But as you said, they’ve been doing a lot of praying and fasting, and that enables us to do hard things and discipline ourselves and overcome that natural self. I just think, here’s the Savior, He’s going to have to put up with a lot of unkind things coming His way.

Hank Smith: 00:20:11 Seems like the understatement of the millennium here when it’s like, “He fasted for 40 days and 40 nights. He was hungry.”

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:20:19 He was hungry. Yeah, of course.

Hank Smith: 00:20:21 Yeah, He was hungry.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:20:23 Another cool comment that Elder Matthew Cowley made about this moment too, again back in the 1950s, was during this fasting period, Jesus had been constantly aware, that not only does the body of man need bread, of course you’re going to be constantly aware of that over that length of a time, but that the spirit of man needs God. What a beautiful comment. What’s Jesus doing out there, is letting His spirit commune with God and just get all that nourishment that comes from that kind of connection and disciplining that body that needs bread, of course, being aware that it does, to have it later and have it when it’s appropriate to have it.

Hank Smith: 00:21:04 What a fantastic insight that is. In fasting you’re actually getting nourishment, where you would think, “No, I’m losing nourishment.”, no-

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:21:12 “I’m starving.”

Hank Smith: 00:21:13 Yeah, you’re actually being nourished.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:21:16 Yes. And I think that helps us, so easy is to just kind of become this habitual faster, that fasts once a month because that’s what you do and it loses its meaning. But if you can take that focus from Elder Cowley and just think, “What am I doing here? I’m allowing my spirit to feed on God, which it needs. And I’m focusing on that and not letting my body and its needs detract from my spirit and its needs.” I think that’s really powerful.

John Bytheway: 00:21:45 It’s interesting that he went into the wilderness. I’ve often wondered about Enos who goes hunting. And for some people, being out in nature is just, you feel a little closer to God and you go up in the mountains. And I’ve wondered if Enos went out there and suddenly lost all interest in hunting and put down his bow or whatever he was using and started to pray.

Hank Smith: 00:22:08 Think about God, yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:22:09 Yeah. Because he was out there in nature. I’ve always wondered that, we’ll ask him one day but…

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:22:14 One day, yeah. So, as we jump into these particular temptations, there’s some interesting things to be looking at. But another comment that I came across as I was doing some of this background research was from Elder Hugh B. Brown. And it’s worth just sharing this as we talk about the Savior’s power, the ability, the talents that He has got. He says, “With every gift of power that comes to us, there comes a temptation to dishonor it, to abuse it. I repeat, with every gift of power comes the temptation to abuse it.” So, we’re going to jump in and watch Jesus being tempted to abuse His power in particular ways. But it’s worth just starting off with that concept and thinking about the power that we all have, our talents, our abilities, and this temptation to misuse those things and how we have to really guard against those temptations, because they’re really prevalent and really easy to do.

Hank Smith: 00:23:12 Man, you found some great thoughts here from the 1900s.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:23:16 Oh, I know. It was fun to go back, and everyone could do this, I just used the Scripture Citation Index BYU uses, but you can look up any verse.

Hank Smith: 00:23:26 It’s scriptures.byu.edu.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:23:28 And you can look up any verse you want and go all the way back in time and just see how different prophets have been interpreting it. And there’s some real fun gems doing that, it was a fun exercise.

Hank Smith: 00:23:39 I want to take note of that, that Jesus has these divine gifts and He is going to be now tempted to abuse them. We have all been given divine gifts, don’t be surprised when you are also tempted to abuse them.

John Bytheway: 00:23:50 That reminds me of Section 121 about, as soon as you get a little authority, they suppose-

Hank Smith: 00:23:58 You immediately-

John Bytheway: 00:23:58 … don’t abuse that.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:23:59 Yeah, that’s what I was just going to say as you quote that, we’ve learned by sad experience that when you give people power, they immediately begin exercising unrighteous dominion. And how that looks can vary depending on the circumstance, but Satan is going to tempt Jesus to do that exact thing with His power, abuse it in different ways. So just be aware of that.

Hank Smith: 00:24:20 I don’t know, Jan, if you want to move in to Verse Three, but the first word of The Temptations is, “If”, “If you’re the Son of God…”, which you just found out you were, right?

John Bytheway: 00:24:29 Yeah.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:24:30 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:24:30 It’s a, prove it, type of a thing.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:24:33 And again, it’s that undermining of that previous spiritual experience that God has come and testified that, “This is my Beloved son”, and Jesus has been part of that and had that confirmation and now we’re going to undermine it with that, if. Elder Sean Douglas gave a great talk just in conference of last year, October 2021, and he just made this really important comment that I just wanted to share ’cause it was really powerful. He said, “Satan seeks to lead us to the breeding ground of doubt.” What imagery, the breeding ground of doubt. Now Jesus goes out into the wilderness to find a breeding ground of communing with God, and here comes Satan trying to turn that place into the breeding ground of doubt. And here it is in every single temptation you can find the word, if, there. So, people who are marking their scriptures, you’ll see.

John Bytheway: 00:25:30 Verse Three, Verse Six, Verse Nine. Yeah.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:25:32 Yeah. It’s there.

Hank Smith: 00:25:34 You called that undermining previous spiritual experiences.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:25:39 Yes.

Hank Smith: 00:25:39 My goodness, that is applicable in so many different ways.

John Bytheway: 00:25:44 It’s the high mountain, low valley thing again.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:25:46 Yeah. And we love talking about some of the things Elder Holland has said, but he also gave another great devotional at BYU about self-doubt and discouragement and things. And he taught some really powerful principles about that. And I’ll just want to read one more thing that he said about this. “We all have troubles, but the germ of discouragement, the self-doubt and discouragement that Satan’s trying to use is not in the trouble, it is in us. Or to be more precise, I believe it is in Satan, the Prince of Darkness, the Father of Lies, and he would have it be in us.”

  00:26:26 You watch Satan, even with the Son of God trying to plant that self disparagement or, “Who am I? And what am I doing? And can I do this?”, and seeds of discouragement right in there. It’s really damaging, it’s worth watching the Savior handle that. For anyone who struggles with self-doubt and discouragement, this is a really great place to watch the Savior handling the attempt Satan’s making to get Him to start questioning Himself and His power and what He came to do. And there’s some powerful lessons of how to handle self-doubt in here as we go through, we can watch.

Hank Smith: 00:27:02 Wow. And Jesus has this power. “If thou will be the Son of God…”, which He had just heard that, “this is my Beloved Son in whom I am well pleased”, “command these stones to be made bread.” So going right after a weakness, it says he was hungry. John, you’ll know that reference in the Book of Mormon, “Let me attack the weakest city.”

John Bytheway: 00:27:20 Right. That’s what the Council of War, “What’s our weakest spot? Let’s fortify the city of Noah.”, I think it was, because that’s our weakest spot. And reminds me of the Harold B. Lee, I think it was a group of missionaries, somebody asked him, “What’s the most important commandment for me?” And President Lee thought about it for a long time and said, “The most important commandment for you is the one you’re having the most trouble with”. Which is such a great answer. He’s attacking first His hunger, then what, His identity.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:27:53 Yeah, he attacks His identity very first. Obviously, “If thou be the Son of God…” And then he’s going for the mortal flesh weakness, I know you’re hungry, so let’s jump in on your physical appetite and let’s try to have you use your power to obtain food in an inappropriate manner when it’s not the right way to do this. Elder Holland, Elder Howard W. Hunter, they’ve all given good talks about the inappropriate use of power in this moment to satisfy appetites of the flesh as a lesson for Verse Four.

Hank Smith: 00:28:27 So, we know He has this power. There’s plenty of examples of Jesus creating bread when it’s needed for thousands of people. And yet I can’t find once in the New Testament where He ever uses this power to feed Himself.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:28:41 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 00:28:42 And I think what self-discipline you must have.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:28:45 Yeah, I don’t know how many people out there have heard Elder Holland’s talk, The Inconvenient Messiah from BYU Devotional of 1982. But I highly recommend that one as well, ’cause he goes through all of this. He says here that, “The temptation is not in the eating. Jesus has eaten before, He will soon eat again, and He must eat for the rest of His mortal life. The temptation, at least the part I wish to focus on, is to do it this way. To get His bread, His physical satisfaction, relief for His human appetite, the easy way, by abuse of power and without a willingness to wait for the right time and the right way. It is the temptation to be the Convenient Messiah.” So what a great insight there. “I’m hungry now, I don’t have to go back to town? I can just have it right here.” And the Savior refuses to do it that way, does everything the appropriate way.

Hank Smith: 00:29:42 Wow. You were probably going to talk about this Jan, so I hate to take it from you. But how often do we have similar type temptations where it’s, who’s in control, your body or your spirit? The body wants one thing, the spirit wants another. Not that the body is evil, but it does come with natural appetites and passions, and we have opportunities daily to decide who’s in control here. I wrote my scriptures that, “Jesus’s spirit rules His flesh.” His spirit is in charge of His body.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:30:13 And you look at His answer, obviously His answer is a scripture quotation, I think from the book of Deuteronomy is what we’re looking at there. But He uses scripture, but that’s a whole thing in and of itself. But you look at what the scripture says, is that, “Man shall not live by bread alone.” And so Hank, there’s that priority. When I’m tempted, what’s the priority, is doing what I know to be right the priority? Or doing what I want that’s easy in the moment the priority. And Jesus is clearly teaching, the spiritual priority takes precedence over the physical need, and He’s quite happy to wait to eat until it’s appropriate and not let that spiritual focus be overtaken.

Hank Smith: 00:30:57 And you are right. There’s the lesson there in answering temptation with scripture.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:31:01 Scriptures, yes. Absolutely. And He does it on every temptation, you’ll see Him quoting scripture. They’re all, I believe from Deuteronomy, as he goes through there. But a couple of our general authorities, Elder Packer, Elder Brockbank from the 1970s, they’ve all noticed that Jesus was using scriptures. But one thing I just wanted to share is Richard G. Scott. He’s been an apostle that’s had an enormous effect on me in some pretty important ways. But he said, “I suggest that you memorize scriptures that touch your heart and fill your soul with understanding. When scriptures are used as the Lord has caused them to be recorded, they have intrinsic power that is not communicated when they are paraphrased. Sometimes when there is a significant need in my life, I review mentally scriptures that have given me strength. There is great solace, direction and power that flows from the scriptures, especially the words of the Lord.”

  00:32:00 So, I heard that talk back, he gave that talk in 1999 in General Conference in October. And that one really struck me personally. So, I did a little experiment to apply what he was teaching and to take his advice and memorize some favorite scriptures and start using them when I was struggling with personal challenges. And I did it, I memorized probably six or seven of them. And then when I was having these self-doubt moments or whatever, I’d literally just say them in my head or say them out loud if nobody was around. And there is real power in the word of God that isn’t there when I would just, “Well, I know there was this one scripture somewhere that says this kind of a thing.” which is better than nothing. But when I could actually quote God’s words word for word, I felt and could see the power of Satan turning away from that. He doesn’t like that. He doesn’t want to hear that. And that power really sends him fleeing.

  00:33:03 And I just wanted to testify. I’ve personally done this in my own life and seen the power of having memorized scriptures to use at difficult moments. And Jesus has taught us a principle of doing that all the way through here. But I personally can testify that it works, I’ve done it.

Hank Smith: 00:33:20 He gave a similar talk, Elder Scott in October of 2011. And he says, “The scriptures provide the strength of authority to our declarations when they are cited correctly. They can become stalwart friends that are not limited by geography or the calendar.” And he goes on to say it again, “Great power can come from memorizing scripture. To memorize the scripture is to forge a new friendship. It is like discovering a new individual who can help in a time of need, give inspiration and comfort and be a source of motivation for needed change.” He goes on later in the talk, “The scriptures can form a foundation of support, they can provide incredibly large resource of willing friends who can help us. A memorized scripture becomes an enduring friend that is not weakened with the passage of time.”

John Bytheway: 00:34:09 And why is that? It’s because we have such confidence that this is absolute truth, it’s not a story, it’s not from a collection of quote. This is scripture. It just takes such a high level that we rely on that as absolute truth. But I think it has to be written on the fleshy tables of our hearts. Because as I’ve been thinking about our last couple of podcasts in the Christmas story, when Herod went to his priests to ask where the Messiah would be born, they knew their scriptures, but it wasn’t written in their hearts, I guess. The Messiah was right in their midst and they didn’t even know it. You did it in such a way, and what Elder Scott’s talking about, is it becomes a part of us, part of our heart, and then it gives us that added power. I’ve always felt there’s something about the actual word, so I’m glad Elder Scott said that. It’s, don’t paraphrase it, use the actual words, there’s another level of power in there, isn’t there?

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:35:08 Yeah. And if I can just be a little more personal, I think sometimes listeners appreciate seeing how we’re living the gospel in our real life, so we’re just real people. But my background has some unfortunate experiences in it, one of which was being seriously bullied as a child. I unfortunately did not come across well to my peers and they made that very clear. And for all of junior high, most of high school, I was a target of unkind things and rejection. And that leaves a scar. That’s not a fun thing.

  00:35:43 And back in the 1980s when I was going through that, our society didn’t really care about bullying like they do today. It wasn’t a subject, it wasn’t brought up. And if you approached it with adults, which I did on a few occasions, their response was always, “Well, that’s just how kids are.” Nobody ever intervened. Nobody helped me, nobody cared about it. It just went on for years. And that leaves a lot of damage. And so, you can imagine, when people say unkind things to you, you start to believe those things. And when they reject you and treat you as a social pariah, you come to accept that that might be true.

  00:36:25 And so part of my developmental journey was overcoming that. And it is in that realm that I used scriptures. It’s in that place of healing that I had to start saying, “Are you going to continue believing these things that all these horrible teenage kids in their developmental years, people can be really unkind because they’re looking for themselves and they can be really impatient and unforgiving, but are you really going to let those people define you or are you going to let God define you?” And so, at a key moment listening to Elder Scott, that was the message to me from the Spirit was, “If you want to overcome this past, why don’t you embrace truth, real truth, God’s truth to help you reject things that were not true, but that I had been told so many times that you kind of come to believe them.”

  00:37:22 That is the personal element where I found the power of, in the Word of God, “Healing the wounded soul…”, as Jacob talks about in the Book of Mormon, that the Word of God can really heal. And I use those scriptures to combat those past beliefs and have changed. Now I don’t have those old beliefs anymore. The new beliefs are God’s words about who I am and what I have to offer. So there’s personally real power in utilizing those scriptures and they do become your friends. So, I would recommend that to anyone who’s struggling with any kind of hurt like that from the past, and I’m sure I’m not the only one that’s had that. But I found incredibly powerful healing through the Word of God becoming part of me.

John Bytheway: 00:38:07 Stephen Covey did something once and he had a group, I believe of young adults, had them take a piece of paper, fold it in half and make two columns. And one column was, what others think of me. And my recollection is that he was surprised at how negative. “Well, they think I’m strange. They think I’m weird. They think I’m unattractive. They think I’m this. They think I’m that.” Okay, next column, what does God think of me? The worth of souls is great in the sight of God. All of these things that you’ve been talking about, Jan, words of the prophets. And then he just said the coolest thing, they’re looking at what others say, what God says. And Brother Covey just said, “Who are you going to believe?”

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:38:52 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:38:53 Just brilliant. And that sounds like what you did or what you were inspired to do.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:38:58 Yes. Because you carry that around for a long time and you need healing from that. And the question is, how do I heal from hurtful things people have done or said? And for me, that was an answer through General Conference from a prophet, some small simple thing that I could do. And talking about that, it may sound like it was this instantaneous and miraculous healing in the moment. It wasn’t. It took many, many months of me practicing this, of combating those habitual self-doubts and saying, “No, I don’t believe that, I believe this.” And then I’d say it and recite it, “This is what I believe.” And after long enough, that actually became written on my heart, that’s actually what I believe now. But it wasn’t an instantaneous fix, I had to make an effort, I had to do my part. But as I was doing that, I could really feel the power of those words becoming and healing and fixing the damage from the past. So it was really powerful.

John Bytheway: 00:39:58 Reminds me of President Nelson, “You are a child of God. You are a child of the Covenant. You are a disciple of Christ, and don’t let go of those identities.”

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:40:09 Yeah. One other thing I’ll offer to listeners too who are perking up and listening and saying, “Hey, maybe that’s something I could do.” I also incorporated memorizing statements from my patriarchal blessing and from other priesthood blessings I had received over the years and written down. And so, I didn’t just use scripture, I used statements that God had made directly to me through priesthood. And those were incredibly powerful too, they were scripture on my page. But blessing parts of it and the compliments the Lord paid me and some other compliments he paid me later on through other blessings, those were incorporated into my memorization and I used those too. There’s real power in having your patriarchal blessing and having other blessings and writing those things down and cherishing them as we’ve talked about, and making sure we remember what the Lord has said to us and then using that to combat the false things that Satan’s going to throw at us himself or through kindness of other people.

Hank Smith: 00:41:08 Yeah. Jan, you’re almost making me weep here. I want you to turn to them and be like, “You don’t know who I’m going to… I’m going to be a King James scholar one day, you guys.”

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:41:18 That’s right, I am. You have no idea.

Hank Smith: 00:41:21 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:41:23 I wrote a book years ago called, What I Wish I’d Known When I Was Single. In my Franklin Planner, remember those days, I called it a Hope page. I had scriptures, I had quotations for my patriarchal blessing. I got married a little later in life. One of the verses that was burned into my heart that helped me so much was, it’s easy to remember, Section 111, Verse 11, 111:11, “Therefore, be as wise as serpents and yet without sin, and I…”, this is God talking, “… I will order all things for your good as fast as you’re able to receive them.” And that was my rock. I’m like, “He’s got this.” And I’m trying to order things and make it happen, but He’s saying, “I got this and I will judge when you’re able to receive them.” And it helped me tremendously. So sometimes I had to go to that Franklin page and my blessing says this, my blessing says this, and 111 Verse 11 says this. So that’s a personal example of how knowing that scripture was a rock to rely on.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:42:29 I used to take the ones I chose, and that’s what I’d start my scripture study out with as I go through all of them and I’d say to myself, “This is what I believe about myself.” Or, “This is what I want to believe about myself”. At the beginning that’s kind of where I was, I want to believe this, and after a while it was what I believed. And then, anytime there was a low point during the day, which happens, I could then go back and say, “Right, I’ve already gone through this morning and I remember right where that is. Nope, this is what I believe.” And so much power in making that choice, your agency is now involved in you choosing what you believe about yourself, but that word’s coming from God.

John Bytheway: 00:43:10 Yeah. I love the practicality of this, Hank and Jan. This is how we use scriptures. It’s not just something to read, but that actually gives you power to get through life.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:43:20 So, as we’ve been on this, it’s really interesting. You look at the temptation to use His power for physical appetite in Verse Four. And then, you look at Verse Five, and of course, we have a JST there that you absolutely have to have. It’s not the Devil taking Jesus to the Holy City and putting Him on a temple. It’s the Spirit doing that, but Satan of course is going to come along and try and twist that moment. But I found another really great comment from Elder Sterling W. Sill back from the 1960s about this moment, that goes along with what we’re talking about with people who maybe don’t feel that great about themselves and are looking for a way to overcome that and actually believe the truth about ourselves.

  00:44:03 But anyway, he says, “From the pinnacle of the temple, Satan said to Jesus, ‘Cast thyself down.'” And then Elder Sill says, “We are all aware that there are powerful influences in the world inviting us to look down.” Then he says, “It has been said that one may not always look where he is going, but he will always go where he is looking. If we merely look down long enough, many will be sure to fall.”

  00:44:35 I had been taught as a kid from my peers that I wasn’t worth anything and that I should always just look down and hang my head. And that really happened when I’d go into a room where there were people, I’d always look at the floor. I wouldn’t look at anyone when I talked to them, I always felt less than or not welcome or whatever. And so, you watch this, what Satan’s doing here too, of trying to get Christ focused on worldly things. But I think Elder Sill’s comments help us with this concept of feeling bad about ourselves, of just looking down. And that’s what Satan wants us to do, is always look down, look down and never, never look up.

John Bytheway: 00:45:14 It’s better to look up.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:45:16 Yes. And that’s what the Holy Ghost will do. That’s what Jesus will do. That’s what God will do. When They come into our lives, They invite us to look up, They invite us to look where They are and to come up where They are and They’re inviting us to come up. This pinnacle of the temple is a really fascinating moment. Of course, we’re going to tempt Jesus to jump off there and misuse His power, but the concept of bringing myself down and looking down and not remembering who I am is very real and I really appreciate Elder Sill for kind of pointing that out.

John Bytheway: 00:45:48 Can you repeat that again? I’m sorry, I really want to write that down.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:45:51 Yeah, I’ll read that part. “It has been said that one may not always look where he is going, but he will always go where he is looking. If we merely look down long enough, many will be sure to fall.” Wow, that’s from April, 1961 General Conference. What a beautiful segue into this next temptation, we’ve been talking about overcoming self-doubt. And here it is again with, if, and then look down and look at the wrong things. And Jesus is having none of it. He just has none of it. And His response is, again, scripture, “We’re not going here. You’re not tempting me with this.”

Hank Smith: 00:46:30 “Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.” And I doubt Jesus was like, “Let me look it up. Let me go through my scrolls here, see if I can find it.” He’s got it memorized.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:46:40 He knows it. Now, one other thing I just want to throw in here is another comment from Elder Holland. He brings up this self-concept thing into this temptation again. And he says here that, “This temptation is even more subtle than the first one. It’s a temptation of the spirit of a private hunger more real than the need for bread. Would God save Jesus? Would He? Why not get spiritual confirmation, a loyal congregation and an answer to this imp who heckles all with one appeal to God’s power, right now the easy way off the temple spire. But Jesus refuses.” Elder Holland then goes on to say that he personally, he says, “I’ve had to struggle to know my standing before God. As a teenager I found it hard to pray and harder to fast.” His mission was not easy, “I struggled as a student to find out that I had to struggle afterwards too. In this present assignment as an apostle, I have wept and ached for guidance.”

  00:47:44 He talks about this need. We have to be known of God and to be recognized by God. And then he says here, “It is ordained that we come to know our worth as children of God without something as dramatic as a leap from the pinnacle of the temple. All but a prophetic few must go about God’s work in very quiet, very unspectacular ways. And as you labor to know Him and to know that He knows you, as you invest your time and your convenience in quiet, unassuming service, you will indeed find that He shall give His angels charge concerning thee, and in their hands they shall bear thee up. It may not come quickly, it probably won’t come quickly, but there’s purpose in the time it takes. Cherish your spiritual burdens because God will converse with you through them.”

  00:48:38 And you just have to love that. That’s the journey I’ve made, is to come to know that God knows me and that I know Him and that He loves me and that I’m of worth. And boy is it taking some time. But I’ve done it through a very similar process of what you’re reading here in Matthew, of using the Word of God, coming to know the Word of God, and having that witness that I am indeed valuable through that Word of God. And you watch Jesus just brilliantly doing this for us so we can learn to do it too.

Hank Smith: 00:49:10 I wonder what kind of following He could get too if He just did His magic tricks. Jump off the temple, everyone will follow you.

John Bytheway: 00:49:17 And you guys have probably both been there, that would be the spot, if that’s the southwest corner of the temple-

Hank Smith: 00:49:24 That’s a long ways.

John Bytheway: 00:49:25 … there’s a lot of people around, you’d have a big audience, that would be quite spectacular. You could see why He would choose that spot.

Hank Smith: 00:49:35 That’s not why He wants followers. And we’re going to learn that in John 6, that when people come just for the free food He says, “That’s not why I want you here.”

John Bytheway: 00:49:45 “You came because you were filled. I could give you bread…”

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:49:50 And some of us really, really desire that. We just want people to like us. We want people to love us. We want the end to that aching on the inside. And some of us will do anything to get it, even drop our standards or drop what we believe. And you see those messages here, that Jesus is going to have followers, definitely going to have them, but not this way. And they aren’t real followers if they’re following Him for the free food. He wants ones who love Him and follow Him for who He is and what He’s teaching.

John Bytheway: 00:50:20 And later on in that same thing as when some walk no more with Him, in that same chapter, “And will you also go away? You were following me for the wrong reason.” “Well, this is a hard doctrine, so we’re leaving.”

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:50:33 Exactly.

Hank Smith: 00:50:35 And when Herod wants to see a miracle, He won’t do it.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:50:38 Yeah. Some really great stuff there for people and their identity and for how they feel loved and how the Savior’s working with those temptations Himself. And I just have really found personal inspiration and help in overcoming my challenges with that, in sharing that, hoping to touch anyone out there who feels that way too or have had that experience of being rejected. It’s tough.

Hank Smith: 00:51:01 And don’t be surprised when the adversary wants you to question your worth.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:51:08 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:51:08 That’s his strategy.

Hank Smith: 00:51:10 That’s a go-to move, is question your worth as a son of God, as a daughter of God. Don’t be shocked when that comes, and look how the Savior responds.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:51:20 Mm-hmm.

John Bytheway: 00:51:20 And look at these phrases which you’ve brought to light for me, Jan, in Verse Six and Verse Nine, “Cast thyself down, fall down…” It’s all the down, down, down stuff, that’s what he wants us to do.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:51:32 Yeah. And you watch this progression, it’s interesting that the temptation for the bread just happens on earth, you’re on a normal, you’re out in the wilderness somewhere. Then you’re led by the Spirit to a higher plane, which will be the pinnacle of the temple, which is what the Spirit does, he takes you up higher. And next we’re going to go up to the mountain, or we’re going to even go higher than the pinnacle of the temple. So as we follow the Holy Ghost, we’re always going to be led up. And as we saw, Satan wants you to come down. There’s those again, the pinnacles and the valleys being taught here. But as I come unto Christ, He’s going to lead me upward. And any of those horrible negative thoughts I’m having that bring me down are not coming from God. God does not talk to His children like that. And that’s a helpful thing to remember.

John Bytheway: 00:52:18 So good. And it’s come unto Christ and be perfected in Him. It’s not, be perfect before you come.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:52:26 Exactly.

John Bytheway: 00:52:27 We get the sequence mixed up. It’s a, come as you are invitation. Wherever you are, just come as you are and be perfected in Him, and then we’ll work together and I’ll help you become something even more. But Satan gets us to mix that sequence up.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:52:42 Yeah. And anytime we see that happening in our mind, that’s a really good clue to say, “This is not of God. God doesn’t work this way. This negativity, no, He doesn’t do these things, he doesn’t say these things. He doesn’t feel this way about me, and I can immediately identify Satan’s influence when I feel those things. That’s not coming from God.”

Hank Smith: 00:53:02 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:53:03 I just thought it was so cool, and we looked at the story of Jonah. When Jonah was asked to go to Nineveh, he went down to Joppa and went down into a ship, and then went down into the water, and then the fish vomited him up on the land and he went up to Nineveh. And when we’re going away from God, we’re down, down, down, when we’re going toward God, we’re up, up, up. Just, I’m a fan of prepositions.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:53:27 Yeah, it’s cool. But those directions, they matter, where we’re headed. And Satan always leads us down, God will always lead us up. And we can judge what we’re doing and choosing very easily if we just stop and look, “Where am I going? Down or up?” Okay.

John Bytheway: 00:53:44 “One may not always look where he is going, but he will always go where he is looking.”

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:53:49 Yeah. Such a great thing. So then we hit the mountain, we hit this temptation of the power, have all these kingdoms, have all this stuff, which Jesus already is going to have in the future anyway. That’s what’s so interesting about this temptation. And the other interesting thing about it is, that Satan doesn’t actually own any of these things, he can’t actually give any of these things, but he pretends to be able to give them. That’s what he does to us, is he offers things that he pretends he has the power to give when in reality he doesn’t have that power and you won’t end up with it if you follow Satan. We got to be careful of being able to discern with Satan’s lies and promises. There’s always something dishonest in everything that he offers.

John Bytheway: 00:54:35 It reminds me of, what is it, 2 Nephi 28, “Thus the devil cheateth their souls…”, and he totally cheats. You couldn’t have given me that anyway.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:54:44 He’s the father of all lies, at least for our planet anyway. And anytime he’s saying, “This is what you’re going to get…”, you just have to know that there’s something twisted and evil and lying about it. Jesus is going to have all these kingdoms and have all these things, but He’ll have them later on and He’ll have them in the appropriate way, and He’s not abusing His power to get them.

Hank Smith: 00:55:05 If you read in the Book of Mormon, there’s Giddianhi promising Lachoneus, “If you yield yourselves up unto us and unite with us and become acquainted with our secret works…”

John Bytheway: 00:55:16 We’ll just be best buds.

Hank Smith: 00:55:17 Yeah. “… you’ll become our brethren and our partners of all our substance.” There’s these false promises, it reminds me of, “I will give you all of these things…”, which he can’t give.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:55:27 No. And I just wanted to share a fun little comment, because I love C.S. Lewis’s Screwtape Letters. I love reading that book, it’s really inspiring. One comment that he makes there when Screwtape’s talking to his nephew, he says, “The belief of ignorant humans is that there is no hope of getting rid of us except by yielding.” That’s one of the things Satan offers is, “Well just give in, just capitulate and then you can be part of my little group.” But there is no group. There’s no society of love and support from Satan. There’s nothing to offer there, but you think you’re going to have it if you’ll just yield. But yielding just ends up having you be alone.

Hank Smith: 00:56:08 And once again, He answers with scripture.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:56:11 Scripture, yeah.

Hank Smith: 00:56:13 His friends come to his aid every time, as Elder Scott would say, “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and Him only shalt thou serve.”

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:56:21 Yes. Now then we move to Verse 11, that the Devil leave with Him for now, obviously Satan isn’t going to be permanently gone, he’ll be back to tempt Him later. But one of the things that I discovered as I was doing some research for this, and I really thought this was so powerful to share. We’ve got two of our previous leaders of the church talking about resisting temptation until it no longer is a temptation. Eldred G. Smith said, “As you resist Satan, you have power over him and he loses his power over you. And to that degree, he is bound. So he gives some examples. He says, “If you’ve learned to pay tithing until it is no burden or real temptation anymore, then to that extent you have bound Satan.” The same is true in keeping the word of wisdom or living law of chastity or other laws of the gospel. Satan then becomes powerless to you in that field.

  00:57:17 Then he says, “Step by step, you may bind Satan now, you don’t have to wait for the millennial reign”. Which I thought was really powerful. And then just a few years later, you have Spencer W. Kimball teaching the similar idea. And he says, “It should be our desire and design to strive to bind Satan in our lives.” And then this is one of my very favorite quotes, I’ve actually memorized it because it was so powerful. He said, “When Satan is bound in a single home, when Satan is bound in a single life, the millennium has already begun in that home, in that life.”

  00:57:59 So what do you see here? Jesus bound Satan every time He resisted temptation and off He goes into his ministry, at least for this point, having bound Satan and Satan will continue to be bound for Christ. But what a motive for us as we resist Satan. This actually is happening to us, and maybe we never thought about it this way, but I love what these leaders have taught. And to get to the point with the laws of God that we want to do them and Satan can’t actually tempt us through them anymore, because we know them, we love them, we see the value of living them. And then, as we’ve done that, Satan literally has no power over us in those areas anymore and he is bound. And the millennium for us can start in those areas right now. And what a beautiful thing to be thinking about.

Hank Smith: 00:58:48 John, you brought up Stephen Covey earlier. I have to paraphrase here. But the idea is that Jesus goes through these temptations and then is able to then go public. And he talks about this private victory coming before-

John Bytheway: 00:59:02 Proceeds the public victory.

Hank Smith: 00:59:03 … public victory.

John Bytheway: 00:59:04 Yeah.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:59:04 Mm-hmm.

Hank Smith: 00:59:04 That He’s able to then go out and have this incredible ministry because He overcame, as Jan would say, He bound Satan in His life.

John Bytheway: 00:59:16 Listen to this from Elder Maxwell. “How is it that you and I do not see, that while initially we are stronger and that temptation’s weaker, dalliance…” I think it’s the only time I’ve ever heard that word in my life.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:59:28 Dalliance.

John Bytheway: 00:59:29 Being dallying in something, right? “… while initially we are stronger and the temptation’s weaker, dalliance turns things upside down.” You entertain it, you think about it, and all of a sudden the temptation becomes stronger than our power to resist. April ‘89, General Conference.

Dr. Jan Martin: 00:59:46 Yeah. And I don’t remember who it was because I’ve read lots of quotes over the last few weeks preparing for this. But somebody else said that, he said, the problem is that you watch Jesus and He never once entertains any of these temptations. He doesn’t mull over them, He doesn’t, I think the word the person used was process. He doesn’t process them, He just rejects them. And He doesn’t entertain them at all. He doesn’t dally with them. And that’s a powerful teaching as well for us is, of course we’re going to have temptations, of course, we’re going to have thoughts come in from somewhere, but we don’t need to entertain them. We don’t need to keep thinking about them, we can just reject them and move on.

Hank Smith: 01:00:27 Good thing that only took us an hour-

Dr. Jan Martin: 01:00:30 I know.

Hank Smith: 01:00:31 … to get through the temptation. Jan, you hit so many home runs. Have you ever seen Steph Curry play basketball? Because you are just draining everything.

Dr. Jan Martin: 01:00:42 This is such good stuff. You just could spend so much time in here learning from the Savior. It’s great. And we did, we spent an hour.

Hank Smith: 01:00:48 Yeah.

Dr. Jan Martin: 01:00:48 But yeah.

Hank Smith: 01:00:49 So touched by this.

John Bytheway: 01:00:53 Please join us for part two of this podcast.