John Bytheway: 00:00 Welcome to part two with President and Sister Meredith. The episode is Christmas.

President Meredith: 00:07 Well, you’ve had some impressions about things that we need, three things in particular, to emphasize with the rising generation that we interact with at BYU-Idaho. Could you share those with John and Hank?

Sister Meredith: 00:19 Sure. Shortly after he received his assignment to be president of BYU-Idaho, he received a job description with that. It was just so overwhelming at first that we went back about a week later and read through, okay, what is it we’re supposed to be doing? In that time period, I had three very distinct impressions that we need to point our rising generation to the Savior in all things. Second, we need to point them to living prophets and apostles. And third, we need to model that living the gospel of Jesus Christ is joyful. It does not mean that we’re going to be spared from challenges in trials, but it is through those challenges and trials that we find that joy with the Savior when we yoke ourselves to him. It’s going to be hard regardless, but it’s so much easier when we yoke ourselves with the Savior.

President Meredith: 01:07 Welcome to the Church of Joy.

Sister Meredith: 01:08 Yes.

President Meredith: 01:08 Wasn’t that just an amazing message? Elder Kearon said this. He said, “Because of the redeeming life and mission of our Savior Jesus Christ, we can and should be the most joyful people on earth.” Doesn’t mean that we’re spared trials and adversity. Think of how often the Savior said to his disciples “Be of good cheer.” It was often in the midst of really terrifying things for them when they were on the ship that was tossed by the contrary winds, he goes walking to them on the water and they’re fearful and he says, “Fear not. It is I. Be of good cheer.” Hours before his crucifixion, as he concluded introducing the 12 to the ordinance of the sacrament and then was about to give that great intercessory prayer, he said to the 12, “These things I have spoken unto you that in me, you might have peace. In the world, you shall have tribulation. But be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.”

  02:08 That’s one of the great messages of this holiday season is to fear not, to have joy, to be of good cheer. Those of us that are called upon to lead, I think it’s imperative that we lead with that in mind. Paul and Corinthians said that “God loveth a cheerful giver.” It could also be said that God loveth a cheerful leader. Elder Holland to a group of leaders said, “Brothers and sisters, we have a duty to be strong and optimistic and filled with hope as we meet our people, especially in troubled times.” And then Elder Holland went on to say, “In all times and in all things and in all places, the saints have a right to look to us for reassurance and confidence. We smile and lift and are strong in order to help our members smile and lift and be strong.”

  03:03 When I was serving as a young bishop in Tennessee, our bishopric meeting was right before our nine o’clock sacrament meeting, and I think I took some of the heavy things that we had been discussing in our bishopric meeting into the sacrament meeting, and when the sacrament meeting concluded, I went to walk off of the stand and Jennifer met me at the bottom of the stairs with kind of a stern look and a question. She said, “Are you happy?” And I said, “Well, yes, I’m happy,” and she said, “Well, when you’re in front of the saints, remind your face.” Which I think is great counsel and I love this impression that Jennifer’s had about our responsibility at BYU-Idaho, but I think all of our responsibility, particularly in working with the rising generation, point them to the Savior, encourage them to follow living prophets and apostles and exhibit joy. By the way, sometimes that’s with word. More often it’s with our countenance. You can imagine, she’s just a perfect example of all three of those things, which is why she’s so beloved on campus.

Hank Smith: 04:12 Elder Maxwell said part of what may be lacking at times, and he’s talking about teaching here, but I think we could add it to leadership. Part of what may be lacking at times in the gospel leader, the church leader, is a freshening personal excitement over the gospel, which could prove highly contagious. I think you’re right. This enthusiasm, this church of joy, it’s contagious.

President Meredith: 04:36 Hold on, we’ve got a phone.

John Bytheway: 04:39 It’s Elder Eyring. Can you meet in three weeks?

Sister Meredith: 04:44 This rising generation going back to BYU-Idaho, they’re amazing. Our missionaries, they’re amazing. As we were going through COVID, I remember telling them, “I don’t know what is ahead. These are the last days.” And if you listen to President Nelson’s most recent conference talk, he is very direct with us in preparing us.

John Bytheway: 05:04 Elder Bednar too.

Sister Meredith: 05:07 Yes. Going back to joy, we just had Sister Camille Johnson come up with Elder and Sister Bennett. For the North America Central Area, we had a devotional for all of the young single adults and we hosted it at BYU-Idaho. One of the invitations that Sister Johnson extended to all of the young single adults, it was to listen to a talk per day. She says, “I do this every morning when I get ready, but listen to President Nelson every morning, just one conference talk.” She said, “It has made all the difference. It lifts my spirits, and how can you not be cheerful and optimistic when we’re listening to who the Savior has appointed to be leading us?”

President Meredith: 05:53 We should acknowledge that life can be tough sometimes. It’s just part of the test of mortality, but that eternal perspective, there’s multiple times in the Book of Mormon, Mormon and the early chapters as well as Alma in chapter five where we’re invited to, I’ll use President Nelson’s phrase, “To begin with the end in mind, to look forward to the end.” We have that promise that in the end all will be well because of the Atonement of Christ. A couple years ago, I had an assignment to preside at a stake conference in Draper, Utah and Jennifer was able to go with me, which was a treat. We were getting acquainted with the stake presidency before the meeting started and each of them introduced themselves and I asked them just to tell us a little bit about themselves. And one of the counselors said, “You need to know I’m a rabid baseball fan and I’m really passionate about the LA Dodgers,” and then he said, “I record every LA Dodgers baseball game.”

  06:54 He said, “I don’t watch it live, but once the game’s over, I check the score and if the Dodgers win, I watch the game and if they lose, I delete it.” Okay. Then he said something that I thought there was just a brilliant spiritual parallel to, he said, “If I’m watching a Dodgers game and in the fourth inning they give up a three run home run or commit a couple errors, I don’t fret because I know the Dodgers win every game that I watch.” Because of the Atonement of Christ, we know how it ends. We know what’s in store for all who simply strive to be disciples of Christ, not who’ve achieved perfection, but for those who strive to stay on the covenant path and repent daily and think celestial on all those things. That eternal perspective that President Nelson continues to invite us to have and that we read throughout the Book of Mormon can help us find joy and at least peace in those troubled times.

Hank Smith: 07:59 President Meredith, as you taught us there, automatically came to my mind a story where Mike Wallace, 60 Minutes, journalist interviewing President Hinckley. Afterwards, Mike was talking with President Faust. As he spoke with him, he said, “With all that President Hinckley has to deal with, how is he so cheerful and optimistic?” And President Faust, if you remember him, you know that smile. He said, “Well, he knows how it all works out.”

President Meredith: 08:27 On a side note, you’ll remember in that segment on 60 Minutes that Mike Wallace interviewed with a little bit of an awe, a handful of students, young people at BYU and that Jennifer was one of those.

Hank Smith: 08:41 What?

President Meredith: 08:42 Yeah, and that’s where the awe came from.

Sister Meredith: 08:46 It was actually a really sweet experience. They spent about two hours with us and I think they might’ve used a 20 second clip. In between takes of changing the tapes, he kept looking at us and saying, “You’re amazing to see light, and…” I’m not saying this about me. That sounds really awkward, but it was a really sweet experience. We were a little bit nervous going into that interview.

President Meredith: 09:10 Whoever the casting director was to pick Jen was brilliant.

John Bytheway: 09:15 One of my favorite statements of Elder Holland, he said, “The future of this world has long been declared. The final outcome between good and evil was already known.” There’s absolutely no question as to who wins because the victory has already been posted on the scoreboard. The only really strange thing in all of this is that we are still down here on the field trying to decide which team’s jersey we want to wear. The idea of watching a game that you know your team’s going to win, but they’re behind, there’s no anxiety. In fact, you laugh because you’re saying the Dodgers are going to come back.

  09:50 What Elder Holland’s saying is, “We know what’s going to happen.” Faith in Christ gives us, I think the best word I can think of is we’re just settled. Things happen, hard things, unexpected things, but underneath it all, there is this. We know the outcome. We know what the atonement of Christ does. We have hope smiling brightly before us. To be settled in that testimony is such a gift. It makes joy possible in the midst of the hard times. Hank, you and I have met so many early morning seminary teachers out there who get up so early and have kids that come in that are tired.

Hank Smith: 10:32 They got their blankets around them.

John Bytheway: 10:34 They bring their pillows with them, and these early morning teachers that get out there and model joy like that, I want to end up where they’re going to end up because I honor those teachers out there.

President Meredith: 10:47 This is not doctrine, but I think the first row in the celestial kingdom is reserved for early morning seminary teachers and scout masters. I think we’re going to be looking at the back of their heads.

Hank Smith: 11:00 And Sister Meredith, I think that counsel you gave is really fantastic. Be aware when you’re sitting on the stand of what message you’re sending with your face. You might be thinking and pondering, but you can get a scowl on your face when you’re thinking. I love that counsel. Be aware. Be mindful of the message.

Sister Meredith: 11:19 I like, John, what you were saying about feeling settled. We can feel settled when we’re yoked with Christ. It reminds me of a scripture in the New Testament in Matthew Chapter 11 verses 28 to 30, “Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart and you shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” As I was reading this not too long ago, the thought that occurred to me is that the reason that his yoke is easy and that his burden is light is because I’ve always thought of that as light versus heavy, but his burden is light. He is the light. His yoke is easy. It’s weightless. He’s already done for us what we need, so when we yoke ourselves with him, he shares that power with us.

  12:22 As we think about how President Nelson has repeatedly invited us to make covenants and to receive power through those covenants, that is how Christ shares his power with us to enable us to face those things. If you go all through the Book of Mormon, you think about Ammon for example. He finds himself in a really precarious situation with the servants of King Lamoni. They’re all worried for their lives and he finds joy in that situation because he recognizes this as an awesome opportunity to share the truth with him. Right? As we face things and when we know who we are, when we know what our mission is. We are disciples of Christ and we have a daughter serving a mission right now. She comes home tomorrow. I am not going to go there because I’m going to get really emotional. We’re so excited. Her testimony, the Book of Mormon and the power that we can gain from these amazing experiences that have been shared with us, that we can face challenging situations and even find joy.

  13:27 That’s what President Nelson tells us. We can find joy in these challenging situations when we are yoked with Christ. He’ll help us see that and see them as opportunities and not to be fearful. Her testimony of the Book of Mormon is just amazing. Monday, her last email was to start reading the Book of Mormon. For all those who haven’t with a link, start with 1 Nephi 1 Chapter 1, “Preach my Gospel” talks about how the Book of Mormon combined with the Spirit is the most powerful resource we have in conversion. It’s so true. It’s so fun to see your child realize that and see how it changes people’s lives literally. She said, “We had this young man just got baptized and she said to see the difference and even in his countenance as he’s committed every day to read the Book of Mormon.” It’s incredible.

John Bytheway: 14:18 It was strange as a bishop to come to realize that no matter what the nature of somebody’s problem was, if it was employment, if it was family, if it was health even, the answer always seemed to be, “Hey, read the Book of Mormon every day.”

Sister Meredith: 14:35 Right. Right. It’s the same prescription.

John Bytheway: 14:38 Yeah. I love what John Lund said. He wrote this book on criticism and he just says, “Criticism doesn’t change people. The agent of change is the Holy Ghost,” and that helped me to know if people are reading the Book of Mormon, they get a dose of the Holy Ghost, then their own discernment of their own issues and problems, it increases. The Holy Ghost has the solutions. People would look at me like, “What an odd thing you’re asking me to do. My problem is this,” and I’m like, “I know. Read the Book of Mormon every day.”

Sister Meredith: 15:10 I promise.

Hank Smith: 15:12 And how often is that in the scriptures? “Do this.” “Wait, that has nothing to do with it.”

John Bytheway: 15:16 “That has nothing to do with my problem.” Well, actually it has to do with getting the Holy Ghost in your life.

Hank Smith: 15:22 Yeah.

Sister Meredith: 15:23 Right.

Hank Smith: 15:23 That’s awesome, John. Sister Meredith, that is a beautiful way to look at that verse. It brought to mind, “My burden is light.” Now you can see. Now you can see your burdens in a different way. Now you can see the end from the beginning. “My burden is light.” I really like that.

John Bytheway: 15:45 You can be settled in everything that’s going on because you know the outcome. I think that’s why we say things like President Nelson, that Jesus Christ is the source of all joy and hope too, because without that, what is there life after death? Do we see our loved ones again? No, but because of Christ, all of those things happen. We can be settled.

Hank Smith: 16:07 John, you’ve heard me tell this story before, but it’s Rexburg, so I have to tell it again. This is a touching, difficult story. The seminary teacher at Madison High School for years and years and years was Bruce Parker. Bruce and his wife lost an 18-year-old daughter in a car accident. Everybody in Rexburg came to the funeral. This is then their seminary teacher, my mom’s seminary teacher, my seminary teacher, with this stake center full of his former students. Bruce Parker goes up to the stand, doesn’t speak for more than 30 seconds, and quotes Job, which says “Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him.” A profound sense of yes, I’m suffering, but I know in whom I have trusted.

President Meredith: 17:08 The title of the Come, Follow Me lesson “He shall come into the world to redeem his people.” This is the testimony that Amulek leaves with Zeezrom and we don’t quite know what exactly it was that turned Zeezrom’s heart, but I have to believe that it was this witness, this testimony. In Alma Chapter 11, verse 40, he says, “And he shall come into the world to redeem his people and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name.” That’s one of the blessings of the atonement of Christ.

  17:48 And then down to verse 42, and he says, “Now there is a death which is called a temporal death, and the death of Christ shall loose the bands of this temporal death.” That is another blessing of the atonement of Christ, and Hank, that really sweet story that you just shared is a good reminder to all of us that the reason we celebrate Christmas is because of Easter, because the tomb was empty, we can celebrate what happened in the manger. It’s just a wonderful blessing to all of us to know that we will all live again because of what he did for us.

Hank Smith: 18:24 Sister Meredith, President Meredith, this has been a joy. We’ve talked about joy. This has been a joy. I know when I’m full of the Holy Ghost because I don’t want it to end. I want to keep going. Before we let you go, this Book of Mormon, this spectacular, miraculous book, I think our listeners would love to hear. Tell me how you feel about the Book of Mormon.

President Meredith: 18:48 I would say that the Book of Mormon fills me with love, joy, and peace, and if that phrase sounds familiar, it’s because that’s what Paul refers to as the fruits of the spirit. There’s other things that he mentions, but love, joy, and peace are the first. Those feelings are engendered in me because of a deeper understanding of the atonement and of the grace of Christ. When we go to the end of the Book of Mormon, we go to some of the great blessings and promises from Moroni Chapter 10. Moroni Chapter 9 is Mormon speaking to his son Moroni, and I’d like to think of him speaking to me.

  19:26 He ends that chapter by saying, “Be faithful in Christ. May Christ lift thee up and the hope of his glory and of eternal life rest in your mind forever and may the grace of God, the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be and abide with you forever.” That is what I take away from the Book of Mormon, that the hope of his glory and of eternal life and the rest and the grace of God, the Father, and the Son abide with me when I am in the Book of Mormon. I know that it is the word of God. I know that it’s another testament of Christ, and I know that Jesus is the Christ and largely because of my reading in the Book of Mormon.

Sister Meredith: 20:13 I think the Book of Mormon is the best instruction manual we have for parents, for leaders. You name any quality you want to develop, whether it’s patience or obedience, anything, and you go through study the Book of Mormon with that lens on, you’re going to learn so much and beyond that. The thing that I love most about the Book of Mormon is that it draws me closer to the Savior I love, and 2 Nephi Chapter 25:26, “And we talk of Christ. We rejoice in Christ. We preach of Christ. We prophesy of Christ. And we write according to our prophecies that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.”

  21:08 My hope for all of our listeners and for our children, for our missionaries, for our students is that they will have a desire to come to Christ, to stay with him, to stay on that covenant path, to return to our Father in heaven. That’s what the Savior wants for us. This book, unlike any other book, helps me come closer to the Savior and I’m so grateful for all those who have sacrificed that we can have this holy book of Scripture in our lives that can bless us in that endeavor.

Hank Smith: 21:42 Beautiful. President and Sister Meredith, I know John agrees with this, what we have done today and the way you’ve pointed us to Christ, the thought runs through my head, so this is Christmas. This is Christmas.

Sister Meredith: 21:56 We have loved being with you today. Thank you for the invitation.

President Meredith: 22:02 Well, and thank you for allowing us to talk about our two of our favorite subjects, the Savior and the Book of Mormon.

Hank Smith: 22:07 And your third favorite subject, BYU-Idaho.

President Meredith: 22:10 There you go.

Hank Smith: 22:11 I want to bring up, those of you who are listening, come on to YouTube. We might break YouTube here, John, but come on to YouTube. Come tell us about BYU-Idaho. We will make sure the Merediths get all of those comments, those of you who love it, and it’s almost a waters of Mormon to you. Please come and tell us, and John, YouTube might be saying, “Why are our servers on fire? Right? What’s happening? What’s happening over there?”

John Bytheway: 22:37 Is that Hank again?

Hank Smith: 22:38 Yeah. Yeah. Something is going on. President and Sister Meredith, if you don’t mind, John and I just have a couple of announcements for our listeners. John, you and I, four years ago thought, all right, four years and here we are.

John Bytheway: 22:54 Incredible.

Hank Smith: 22:56 And the thought was, well, maybe we’re done. Right? Maybe we wrap this up over four years. As we got talking, I think it was about two years ago, we started thinking, “Well, do we want to wrap this up?” And we talked about this a little bit last week with Dr. Sweat, but we are happy to let everybody know if you didn’t know already that followHIM will continue. We have plans to go through those four wonderful books again. John, I thought we had covered every single aspect of these four books that there is to see.

John Bytheway: 23:29 What more could there be to say?

Hank Smith: 23:31 Yeah, and then all of a sudden you realize, “Wow, I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface.” Right? I think we just touched it. We’re excited for that. Also, John, I don’t know if you know this, but you and I are going to speak Spanish, French and Portuguese next year. Do you want to tell us about that?

John Bytheway: 23:49 Yeah. Through the miracle of something called AI, it will look like my face and my mouth and it will sound like me speaking Spanish.

Hank Smith: 23:59 And we are nervous that people are going to come up to us in public and start speaking Spanish. That’s going to be a serious letdown.

John Bytheway: 24:08 As Sister Meredith talked about the people that brought us this book and that ushers us into our church history, Doctrine and Covenants year, and we get to go right into that again, which is so exciting to see how this book got to us and the sacrifices that were made to get it to us.

Hank Smith: 24:25 Absolutely, and next week, the wonderful Dr. Tyler Griffin is going to kick us off with a lesson called The Restoration of the Fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Well, President and Sister Meredith, we want to thank you for spending your time with us today. We want to thank our executive producer Shannon Sorensen. We love you, Shannon. Merry Christmas. We want to thank our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, and for the end of our four years, we want to remember, I’m tearing up here, John, our founder, Steve, Shannon. I still remember that initial phone call just over four years ago. We want to remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. We hope you’ll join us for the next four years on followHIM. Before you skip to the next episode, I have some important information. This episode’s transcript and show notes are available on our website followhim.co. That’s followhim.co. On our website, you’ll also find our two free books, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament and Finding Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

  25:42 Both books are full of short and powerful quotes and insights from all our episodes from the Old and New Testaments. The digital copies of these books are absolutely free. You can watch the podcast on YouTube. Also, our Facebook and Instagram accounts have videos and extras you won’t find anywhere else. If you’d like to know how you can help us, if you could subscribe to, rate, review, and comment on the podcast, that will make us easier to find. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew, David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilson, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, and Annabelle Sorensen.

President Russell M. Nelson: 26:18 Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to him. Follow him.