Hank Smith: 00:01 Welcome to part two of Dr. Anthony Sweat, Moroni 10.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 00:06 The Bible Dictionary has a really interesting entry on charity where it says, “The scriptures never describe charity as acts of alms giving towards others. It’s a condition.” Charity, as President Oaks said there, it is the state of being. The root word, as some have heard before, is agape, which that’s been used in different ways, but the definition of it literally is the fatherly love of God toward His children and their love for Him in return.

  00:36 The reason why I believe charity is the greatest of all the gifts of God is because charity is the greatest gift that changes us to become like God. When we dwell in this condition of love with God, it refines our souls. It sanctifies and purifies and changes us into being more Christlike. That’s why at the last day, whoever has charity, it will be well with her or him because you will be more Christlike. You’ll be dwelling in their love.

  01:06 Heaven isn’t so much a location as it is an ability or heaven is a capacity more than a locality. If we’re going to live God’s life, we have to be like God. We have to have become or become endowed with His characteristics, His qualities. The reason why you and I are going to be in despair, as Moroni is saying here, is if you don’t have faith, you won’t have hope, and if you don’t have hope, you won’t have charity, and then without charity, you cannot become like God, therefore you can’t be in His kingdom. That seems to be the logic of what he’s trying to teach us here.

  01:45 Faith, hope and charity have been a real defining thing in my life because the opposite of faith, in my view, is fear. Faith impels us to act and trust. Fear causes us to freeze and not act. The opposite of hope is doubt, and by doubt, I don’t mean I don’t understand or I have questions or this bothers me. Doubt is I’m doubting God and specifically, I’m doubting the Son of God and His promises that He’s made to the world, and let’s never confuse that Jesus Himself said, “Look unto me in every thought, doubt not, fear not.” He’s telling us to not fear and to not doubt.

  02:35 And then the third, the opposite of charity is pride. Faith, hope and charity will lead me and you unto the fountain of all righteousness, to the tree of life. Fear, doubt and pride will lead us right into the filthy waters of hell and the great and spacious building. And a litmus test for me, I ask myself constantly because if I’m being honest, I feel fear in my life sometimes. Fearful narratives start to take hold and I start to wonder and sometimes I start to question and doubt enters in and I start to lose hope.

  03:15 Then sometimes frankly, I’m very prideful and I’m very selfish and I worry about my glory and my way and my will. When I catch myself in those moments, what I ask myself often is I literally pray and I say, “Help me to have faith here and not be led by fear. Help me to have hope. Bless me with gifts of your divine promises and to not listen to any doubts. Help me to have charity and not be filled with pride.” That has been a great litmus test for me to try to keep me on the right path.

  03:58 And one of the reasons why I know the Book of Mormon is true is because the Book of Mormon is a story. Really, the whole book is people having faith, acting in faith, receiving promises in hope, and then what’s the pinnacle of the Book of Mormon? Jesus coming and them tasting the love of God and charity. The whole book is faith, hope, and charity. When I study the Book of Mormon, it fills me with faith, hope and charity. That is a manifestation to me that this book is true.

Hank Smith: 04:33 Can you imagine if you made this list? You put them in three different columns, faith, hope, and charity, then go through the Book of Mormon. List how many times you see those manifested by any person in the Book of Mormon. It’d be an unending list. So you’re right. I mean, the book is filled with faith, hope and charity.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 04:52 It really is. My wife one time said that to me. She said, “This book is actually a story of faith, hope and charity.” The whole book is. Sometimes when I try to work not only with myself but when I work with others, I’ll often ask them, “What are you afraid of with this?” because that actually gets to the root of what’s getting in the way of their faith, and then I’ll ask, “Tell me what promises of Christ we could rely on right now with what’s bothering you.” With charity, I’ll say something like, “What would a loving God say about this rather than our prideful selves say about this?” And that helps to push towards the great gifts rather than being blinded and distracted by the terrible triplets of fear, doubt and pride.

Hank Smith: 05:50 The terrible triplets.

John Bytheway: 05:51 The terrible triplets.

Hank Smith: 05:54 If you have three daughters, don’t name them.

John Bytheway: 05:56 Don’t name them Fear, Doubt and Pride, “This is my daughter Pride.”

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 06:03 In 24, 25, 26, that’s why he goes off a little bit on, “Let me speak to all the ends of the earth. If the day cometh that the power and gifts of God,” these things that he’s just talked about, “are done away with, it’s because of unbelief.” Let me give an Anthony Sweat translation. If these things aren’t happening, it’s because you’re not trusting and you’re not acting in faith and you’re not knowing the promises and you’re not accepting the love of God, and if that’s happening, it’s because in 25, you’re not doing any good because if you were doing good in faith, you would experience these powerful gifts, and if you’re not doing any good in verse 26 and trusting Christ, then you’re going to die in your sins and you can’t be saved in the kingdom of God because you are not following this pattern and receiving this power and these gifts. And I’m not lying to you. I love in verse 26, “And I lie not.” This is the gospel verity truth.

Hank Smith: 07:08 “I lie not.”

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 07:08 When he gets done, he’s like, “You guys, I promise you this is true, and if these things have been done away, it’s because you’ve lost faith and you’ve lost hope and you’ve lost charity and you’re not having a sincere heart with faith in Christ or not having real intent, and if that’s the case, then you’re going to die in your sins.” This is a warning right here by Moroni.

Hank Smith: 07:35 And it’s not a threat, it’s a, “Please don’t,” right? It’s a, “Oh, you don’t want this.”

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 07:42 Yeah, that’s a better way to say it, Hank. Yeah, it’s not a threat. It’s just like, “Please.”

Hank Smith: 07:48 “I know how this movie ends.”

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 07:51 “I’ve seen this movie.”

Hank Smith: 07:53 Anthony, it looks to me like of the exhortations you showed us, we’ve got two left, 27 and 30. Are we ready for those?

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 08:03 Let’s exhort the last two times.

Hank Smith: 08:07 Let’s do some exhorting.

John Bytheway: 08:09 We haven’t exhausted our exhorts.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 08:13 27, he says, “And I exhort you to remember these things.” It’s almost like everything that I’ve just taught you, remember them, and then he’s going to turn it personal, “For the time speedily cometh that ye shall know that I lie not for ye shall see me at the bar of God and the Lord God will say unto you, ‘Did I not declare my words unto you?’ which were written by this man like as one crying from the dead. Yea even as one speaking out of the dust,” did something really interesting here. He turned to personal to say, “I’m not lying to you. Trust me,” and then he’s going to do something really cool that he is going to in essence say, “Don’t just trust me. Trust every one of the writers and the prophets, my people in this book who have been teaching you these same things.”

John Bytheway: 09:09 It struck me one day reading this, “Did I not declare my words unto you?” He’s talking to people who have had a chance to read the Book of Mormon because some have never seen these words. He’s talking to us and everybody who has had a chance, “Didn’t I tell you? Didn’t I declare my words unto you which were written by this man?” And there’s Moroni standing there with his author’s copy going, “I told you to read it.” President Benson next to him with his newly autographed copy, right? “I did. I told you to read it.” I’ve always thought that’s interesting. This is people who have had a chance to read it that you would not ask that question unless they’d had a chance to read it.

Hank Smith: 09:50 And you wonder how many copies of the Book of Mormon are in the spirit world.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 09:54 Martin Harris is off still looking for the lost 116 pages in the spirit world. That’s what he’s doing.

Hank Smith: 09:59 He’s walking around each person he knew, “Come on. I know you had something to do with it.”

John Bytheway: 10:03 Oh, that is so funny. I’ve never thought of that. He’s looking around up there, “Who had it last? Who did it? Who did it? Lucy, fess up. Tell me.”

Hank Smith: 10:11 “Come here.” Anthony, I think you’re more than right on there that he starts calling back previous prophets because what you just read, verse 27, that is a direct quote from the last sermon of Nephi, one of the very last things that Nephi wrote, 2 Nephi 33:13, “I speak unto you as the voice of one crying from the dust.” That is on purpose. That is not a, “Wow, he just happened to use the same words.”

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 10:50 Yeah, and this is one of the brilliant contributions that we should acknowledge from Grant Hardy in his classic book on the Book of Mormon. This is sometimes called the curtain call where Moroni seems to be doing something that is really brilliant writing here, where he’s going to now bring in and say, “I’m going to subtly quote all these other major prophets in the Book of Mormon,” beginning there with that direct quote from Nephi.

Hank Smith: 11:20 You get another one in verse 29, “And God shall show unto you that which I have written is true.” Little bit further down, “Lay hold upon every good gift that is right from his own Father.” Moroni 7:25, “Lay hold upon every good thing,” then skip to Moroni 7:35, “God will show unto you with power and great glory at the last day that they are true.” Isn’t this incredible and I can’t tell you how many times before I read this from Dr. Hardy. I’ve read Moroni 10, never saw it.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 11:57 I never saw it either until I read his book. This is incredible, particularly when you bear in mind that Joseph would’ve translated Moroni 10, then gone around the horn. He’s not going to finish the translation on Moroni 10. He’s then going to go back and say, “What do we do with the lost pages?” and then he’ll translate from the small plate of Nephi, which Moroni 10 is quoting, so he’s quoting things before they were translated.

Hank Smith: 12:27 Yeah. He translates 1 Nephi, 2 Nephi, Jacob, Enos, Jarom, Omni after Moroni 10.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 12:34 So if Joseph is making this up, Joseph is going to go, “I’ve got a brilliant idea. I’m going to end Moroni 10 with a bunch of different phrases and then I’m going to remember those phrases, and as I write 1 Nephi 1 through Omni, I’m going to subtly weave those in with different authors all the way through.” That’ll be brilliant.

Hank Smith: 12:52 Yeah, and right at the end of their writings, “Oh, I got to save it for the end-“

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 12:57 For the end.

Hank Smith: 12:58 If you don’t mind it, I’m going to keep going. Moroni 10:31, “Awake and arise from the dust.” Now, if you’ve read 2 Nephi, which a lot of us have, you know who that is. That’s right at the very end of Lehi’s life. He’s speaking to Laman and Lemuel. 2 Nephi 1:14, “Awake and arise from the dust.” I’m having too much fun here. I’m going to keep taking these right after what we just quoted there with Lehi, “O Jerusalem, put on thy beautiful garments, O daughter of Zion, and strengthen thy stakes and enlarge thy borders forever.” He doubles up on that one. He’s quoting Isaiah and Jesus quoting Isaiah. That’s straight out of 3 Nephi 22:2, “Enlarge the place of thy tent, stretch forth thy curtains, lengthen the cords and strengthen thy stakes.” Man, this is incredible.

  13:58 Verse 32 of Moroni 10, “come unto Christ,” and that’s actually not from Omni, who I think calls himself a wicked man. It’s in the book of Omni, but it’s from Amaleki who gives the plates to King Benjamin. If you’re not already amazed, there’s two more. Go down to verse 34, Moroni’s last verse. He says, “Now I bid unto all farewell.” Hold that one for a minute. He says, “I soon go to rest in the paradise of God.” Go right back to Enos, right at the very end of Enos’ writing verse 27, “I soon go to the place of rest which is with my Redeemer,” and then going backwards, the first line of verse 34, “And now I bid unto all farewell,” skip down, “I am brought forth triumphant through the air to meet you before the pleasing bar of the great Jehovah.” That is Jacob 6, again, right at the end of the writing of Jacob. Jacob 6:13, “Finally, I bid you farewell until I should meet you before the pleasing bar of God.”

  15:08 I mean, it’s overwhelming. It is so good to see that and that how well written, Anthony, you said this is that he would go back at the very end and quote these small plate prophets, Jesus, Isaiah and his own father.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 15:29 I almost picture Moroni having this flash of inspiration going, “How should I finish this out? Man, you know what I should do? Lehi, pop in one more line. Nephi, pop in one more line. Enos, pop in one more line. Isaiah and Jesus, quoting you one more line. Jacob, come on in one more line.” It’s brilliant. That’s why I like that it’s been called the curtain call because it’s bringing out these great major players that have testified of these things. You get to see Moroni going, “This would be a great way to wrap up.” It’s really brilliant, beautiful writing.

  16:05 When you sit down and think of writing and construction and how things are put together, whether somebody does or doesn’t accept the Book of Mormon as the word of God, these people today are going, “Joseph Smith is a genius,” even if they’re not willing to accept him as a prophet because if Joseph is the author of this, that’s really good writing from somebody who, by the way, when Jonathan Hadley printed his discussion with Joseph when Joseph asked him to print the Book of Mormon, Jonathan Hadley didn’t realize he was bearing his testimony when he criticized him because he wrote, “It seems unlikely that Smith, very illiterate.”

  16:47 That’s a contemporary 1829. How many people have you met in your life that the way you summarize them was very illiterate? The new neighbors move in, you’re like, “Have you met the Johnsons?” “Oh, yeah, that super illiterate guy,” and then all of a sudden a book like this comes out and suddenly they’re like, “Oh, okay. This isn’t very illiterate. This is really beautiful, powerful writing,” and obviously, you and I and millions of others know that this book is from God and is true, but at minimum, I think those who are taking the Book of Mormon more seriously are going, “This book has levels and layers and construction and purpose that’s beyond the random ramblings and writings of an illiterate man.

Hank Smith: 17:36 I think that’s what the Lord said to him. Didn’t he say, “Joseph,” kind of a mean thing to say, but he said, “I chose you so everyone would know it was me,” right? “We’re all in the same boat, and I chose you so everyone would know it was me.” I don’t love the idea of basing my testimony or anyone basing their testimony on, “Oh, well Joseph Smith couldn’t have done this,” because that might convince you, but it doesn’t convert you, the words convert you. This is impossible to not at least recognize.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 18:10 Our good friend John Hilton III often says something like, “Now, I wouldn’t base my testimony on this,” but it can strengthen. It’s empowering to go, “Man, that’s really fascinating.” Our testimonies are based on things more profound than the construction of a chapter, but when you see a construction like that that’s deliberate and purposeful, it can really reinforce what the Lord’s already taught you that this is really being written by somebody who has a deep purpose to bring you to Christ.

Hank Smith: 18:41 You can tell he loves the small plates like his father did. He’s been reading the letters of his father. You can get some insights into his life. I think President Eyring said the more you read the scriptures, the more they become part of you, your vocabulary, the way you think, the way you see the world.

John Bytheway: 19:00 I wouldn’t base my testimony on this, but if you can go from I doubt to I wonder, that is such a huge step in gaining a sincere heart, going from I don’t believe it to will I doubt it and then go to maybe I wonder and that’s maybe giving place and then you can say, “Could this possibly be true?” And then if you can know more than desire to believe, I like to say a testimony is like a dimmer switch where it keeps coming up a little bit. You go to I wonder and then I desire to believe, as Alma said. If I could just stop in a couple of verses because you know I love Isaiah, but in verse 31, okay, you guys, this is my age. My mission call was over the signature of Spencer W. Kimball. So we’re going back, right?

Hank Smith: 19:48 Right.

John Bytheway: 19:49 President Kimball used to talk about the threefold mission of the church. Does that ring a bell?

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 19:54 Oh, yeah, of course.

John Bytheway: 19:55 Which is proclaim the gospel, perfect the saints, redeem the dead. Look at Isaiah’s threefold mission of the church here, put on thy beautiful garments, a salvation for the dead in holy places, right? Strengthen thy stakes, that’s another way of saying perfect the saints. Enlarge thy borders is another way of saying proclaim the gospel.

Hank Smith: 20:17 Proclaim the gospel, wow.

John Bytheway: 20:20 It’s participate in the mission of the church. He’s exhorting us. It’s another exhort maybe, right? Now, President Monson added later care for the poor and needy and the latest handbook speaks of the works of salvation with four words. It’s really nice the way they’ve done it now, live, care, invite, unite. Live the gospel of Jesus Christ, care for those in need and I like in need instead of just the poor and needy, but it’s because sometimes you’re not in need that way, but you’re in need another way. Invite all to come unto Christ, there’s the proclaim the gospel missionary part, and unite families for eternity. That’s a lot nicer way than saying redeem the dead, unite families for eternity.

  21:06 The work of salvation is there, which I think is kind of cool that he would say that. And then another thing I was going to mention, every year the youth have a new scriptural theme. This year, it’s I’m a disciple of Jesus Christ. Just for fun using the search engine that your library app has, how many times did the scriptures actually say, “Come unto Christ”? You guys, there weren’t as many as I thought. There was, I want to say four. There might’ve been five, but come unto me where Jesus was talking himself or being quoted, there were 28, but what I thought was really wonderful was Elder David A. Bednar said once, “The central and recurring theme of the Book of Mormon is the invitation to come unto Christ and be perfected in him.”

  21:50 Well, of the 28 come unto me references that I found, guess how many were in the Book of Mormon? 25, 25 of the 28. Elder Bednar’s right. The central and recurring theme is the invitation to come unto Christ, and if you’ve read lots of Elder Bednar, you know he’s going to talk about invitations to act. That Book of Mormon thumps you and says, “I’m talking to you and I’m inviting you,” and here we are. Three verses from the end, it’s inviting us again.

Hank Smith: 22:22 John, if you don’t mind, I’ve heard you talk about this many times. Come unto Christ and be perfected in Him and you’ve talked about getting the order right.

John Bytheway: 22:33 Imagine you remembering that. There’s a sequence here. It’s so important with young people. I show them some examples of bad sequences like ready, fire, aim or open, shake well or rinse, repeat, lather, right? No, no, no. That’s the wrong order, right? Hank, if you’ve seen me, you know I show this football player who quarterback was telegraphing his pass and this linebacker saw it and he intercepted the ball, took it to the end zone, and just before he got into the end zone, he dropped the ball so he could do his celebration and the referees just stood there and watched the ball roll out of bounds and called a touchback and gave it back to the other team.

  23:18 So the sequence is super important and all of that is so that I could say, “Look at the sequence. Come unto Christ right now.” This is a come as you are invitation and be perfected in him. It is not be perfect because you’re not worthy to come yet. That’s the wrong sequence. It’s come unto Christ, come as you are, come wherever you are. It’s not about distance, it’s about direction. Just come wherever you are and the perfection process is only possible because of him and let him start to work in you.

Hank Smith: 23:54 That is just critical, John.

John Bytheway: 23:57 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 23:57 Anthony has said this before when he’s taught. If we get just one thing, if we get just this.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 24:04 If we can just take that one thing, our time will have been well spent.

Hank Smith: 24:08 Right. Come unto Christ, that’s first. Be perfected, that’s second. Way too often it’s, “Okay. As soon as I’m perfect, I’m going to come.”

John Bytheway: 24:20 “Then I’ll come.”

Hank Smith: 24:20 “Then I’ll come.”

John Bytheway: 24:21 “I’m not good enough to come to church right now,” right?

Hank Smith: 24:23 And you’re never going to get there. That’s a satanic sequence.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 24:27 So good. I would link verse 32 with Doctrine and Covenants section 76 verse 69, where the Lord’s speaking of those who are celestial. It says, “They are just men and women made perfect in Christ.” You can read that two ways, just men like they’re really, really good people or you could read it as they’re just regular people. They’re merely-

Hank Smith: 24:54 They’re just men and women.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 24:56 They’re just men. They’re just people who have been made perfect in Christ. Speaking of celestial souls there, if I like to do a little celestial math with them where I say, “What’s one plus infinity?” and they’re all like, “Infinity.” “What’s three plus? What’s five plus?” I’m like, “Okay. Good.” It’s always infinity. It’s interesting to me that the Lord will give so many parables that are, whether you have one talent or two talents or five talents or whether you have thirtyfold, sixtyfold or a hundredfold or whether you’re a first hour or a third hour or a ninth hour laborer. I don’t know how many parables and teachings he needs to give before we realize that it doesn’t matter really if we’re the one, three, five or seven. What matters is the plus in the equation, which to me are covenants. That’s what binds us to Christ and then the infinity is Christ and the equals is perfection.

  26:01 Me and you plus covenant bound to the Savior, Jesus Christ, that’s what perfects us. That’s what sanctifies and exalts us. You and I aren’t trying to qualify ourselves for heaven because we’re not going to meet that qualification. We’re trying to qualify ourselves for Christ and Christ is going to take us to heaven. It’s this covenant relationship that’s often been said and talked about so much where because I’ve joined myself with Jesus, His goodness is my goodness, His perfection is my perfection, and I’m not going on my merits, I’m going in on the merits of the Holy Messiah who is full of justice and truth and equity.

  26:57 Now, as I link myself and as He works with me, He’s going to refine me. Hopefully one day, He’ll take me from just being a man or as a just man, and in that sequence as I’ve come unto Him, He’ll refine me and make me fit for the kingdom and I know He will, and in that way I can in no wise deny the power of God as this verse says. Let’s never forget that we are coming unto Him as just regular people who bind ourselves by covenant and He is the one who perfects and saves and exalts and sanctifies.

  27:34 I know we say that, but at some point, that has got to get in each of our souls so that we can sit always rejoicing as King Benjamin said, always retaining a remission of our sins because we have covenant confidence in His perfection, not our own.

John Bytheway: 27:54 What I love that you put in there in your answer, Anthony, was a covenant relationship. I feel like sometimes we say, “Oh, yeah, covenant’s a two-way promise and it sounds like you sign here, I sign here and we stick that on the shelf.” It’s a covenant relationship. When I don’t feel like I’m courageous enough, I have access to Christ and I’m bound with Him by a covenant and He can give me courage, He can help me be more merciful, He can help me be more forgiving because I have a covenant relationship with Him, that takes it beyond this contract, this two-way agreement is that, no, He can take just men and make us perfect, and now I have access to that because I’m in a covenant relationship.

  28:39 And then you use that phrase covenant confidence too. What a great thing to teach. I can have confidence in that covenant and when in section 45, which sounds like a script for the judgment right at the beginning, here’s Jesus not saying, “Well, here’s this guy. He made a lot of mistakes.” He doesn’t even talk about what you did. He talks about what He did. He’s the advocate with the Father who says, “Behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin in whom thou was well pleased. Wherefore, spare these, my brethren, who believe on my name.” Oh, my goodness, I love that verse.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 29:16 I do too.

John Bytheway: 29:17 He’s saying, “I’m an advocate.” How cool is that that that’s His nickname for us, an advocate? When I’ve looked it up, it’s like an attorney for the defense.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 29:29 I love in some evangelical Protestant faiths, if I grabbed a group of a hundred of them and said, “How many of you guys are confident that you’re going to go to heaven with God?” they’ll give an amen and a hallelujah. They have such confidence in their Savior. Now, on the flip side, if I grab a hundred Latter-day Saints and say, “How many of you guys are confident?” using our language, “that you’re going to go to the celestial kingdom?” you get a lot more hems and haws, typically, and I know this because I’ve actually surveyed Latter-day Saints for youth and young adults.

  30:08 But my point of it is I’m not sure that pleases the Lord when we are His covenant saints and we say that we trust Him and we love Him and then we say, “Are you going to go to heaven?” and we’re like, “No, I’m not sure. It depends on the day,” because it means we’re kind of pointing at ourselves when, I mean, could we say, “Well, I’m not sure if I love the Lord through covenant today,” and if our answer is, “I love the Lord and I have dedicated my life to Him by a covenant and I’m going to be loyal to that covenant,” if that’s our mindset and if that’s our life’s path, then if someone says, “Do you think you’re going to go to the celestial kingdom?” let’s respond with confidence in Christ, not in ourselves.

John Bytheway: 30:59 Right, exactly. Yeah.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 31:00 Confidence in Christ where we say, “I have a sure hope born of the spirit that I will go to the celestial realms on high because I have faith in Jesus Christ and I am one of His people and I have made a covenant with Him and I know He will take me to heaven.”

Hank Smith: 31:23 2 Nephi 2, “I know that thou art redeemed because of the righteousness of your redeemer.”

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 31:36 Amen.

John Bytheway: 31:36 Not because of your own, because of His.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 31:38 It’s not about us. Sometimes it makes me wonder what our Lord thinks when we’re like, “I’m just not really sure.” “Do you not trust me? I can and I will deliver you, so live in confidence in me. Quit wondering.”

John Bytheway: 31:59 “Have you even read the scriptures?”

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 32:00 “Have you even read the scriptures?”

John Bytheway: 32:04 “And let your soul be at rest. Come unto me and let your soul be at rest and I’ll perfect you.” It almost seems that that’s what He’s trying to say. And the fact that we know that we’re not perfect and that we’re flawed and that we’re short, that when we are sanctified and taken to heaven’s home when God says, “Yes, because of your advocate who mediated, who you look to, nowise denied the power of God,” and we will say, “How great is the power of the Lamb.” That’s what he seems to be saying there. You can in nowise deny his power if you understand that.

Hank Smith: 32:44 Moroni 10:32, His grace is sufficient. We’ve had Brother Wilcox on here on our show many times, his BYU speech, his grace is sufficient, has been widely read in the church, one or two quotes. “Too many give up on the church because they’re tired of constantly feeling like they’re falling short. They’ve tried and tried, but they just feel like they’re never going to be good enough. They don’t understand grace.” He gives this funny example. “In the past, I had a picture in my mind of what final judgment would be like. It went something like this. Jesus standing there with a clipboard, Brad standing on the other side of the room looking nervously at Jesus. Jesus checks his clipboard and says, ‘Oh, Brad, you missed it by just two points.’ Brad begs Jesus, ‘Check the essay question one more time. There has to be two points you can squeeze out of that essay.’

  33:50 But the older I get and the more I understand this wonderful plan of redemption, the more I realize that in the final judgment, it will not be the unrepented sinner begging Jesus, ‘Let me stay.’ Knowing Christ’s character, I believe that if anyone is going to be begging on that occasion, it would probably be Jesus begging the unrepentant sinner, ‘Please choose to stay. Please use my Atonement not just to be cleansed, but to be changed so that you want to stay.’ In a way, you might say that the gospel is not me earning my way to heaven. Living the gospel changes me so that I choose heaven when it’s offered to me.”

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 34:35 That’s brilliant. They’re timeless. That makes me wonder if Brad must have been getting cliff notes in the pre-mortal life from Moroni on grace is sufficient because what he teaches there is just so potent, so true.

John Bytheway: 34:49 He put that into a one-liner too, “We’re not earning heaven, we’re learning heaven.”

Hank Smith: 34:54 And how many times does Moroni say in these verses, perfect in Christ.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 34:59 In Christ.

Hank Smith: 35:00 He never talks about perfection without attaching it to Christ.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 35:04 Yeah, so we can mark those. It’s the second line of verse 32, “Be perfected in Him.” Right in the middle of verse 32, “Be perfect in Christ,” and again, second to last line of 32, “Perfect in Christ.” Second line of verse 33, “Perfect in Christ.”

Hank Smith: 35:25 I wonder if he’s trying to get something across.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 35:26 I wonder if he’s trying to tell us something and even 33, he doesn’t use perfect, but he says sanctified in Christ in the middle of 33. He’s like, “I hope you’re getting it. I said it four times,” and we’re like, “I still don’t get it.”

Hank Smith: 35:41 John, you’ve done such a great job reading this year. Would you read verse 34, Moroni 10:34?

John Bytheway: 35:51 “And now I bid unto all farewell. I soon go to rest in the paradise of God until my spirit and body shall again reunite, and I am brought forth triumphant through the air to meet you before the pleasing bar of the great Jehovah, the eternal judge of both quick and dead. Amen.”

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 36:10 Amen.

Hank Smith: 36:11 Anthony, what comes to mind when you read verse 34?

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 36:15 First of all, what great imagery he evokes there, “I am brought forth triumphant through the air.” I don’t know about you, but my visual mind pictures this resurrected being being brought forth by the gift and power of Christ through the air before this pleasing judgment bar. We use that word, but it’s almost more like this reunion, this moment. It’s so pleasing. I love that word. It evokes beautiful imagery in my mind of the way that’s so beautifully phrased.

Hank Smith: 36:56 Anthony, didn’t Joseph Smith relate this or relate at least Moroni to the Book of Revelation? This is Revelation 14:6, “I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven.” “I am brought triumphant through the air.” In fact, I think on the Nauvoo temple, Moroni wasn’t standing straight up.

John Bytheway: 37:19 He’s a weather vane.

Hank Smith: 37:20 He’s flying.

John Bytheway: 37:22 He’s horizontal.

Hank Smith: 37:23 He’s horizontal.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 37:23 I just love that imagery. Hank, since you connected it to the Book of Revelation that he sees this angel fly through the midst of heaven with a book, it’s interesting that he would say, “I soon go to rest until my spirit and body shall again reunite.” Well, apparently, they did reunite because in the midnight hours in upstate New York in a small little family cabin on September 21st of 1823, this same Moroni who sealed up this book is going to speak to a young 17-year-old young man named Joseph Smith and tell him about it and talk to him and say, “There is a book deposited a few miles away. It’s your job to bring it forward.”

  38:17 His spirit and his body have been reunited, first of all, in triumphant glory. Joseph said of Moroni, he had never looked upon something so brilliant, and I just love that idea of somebody who labored for Christ like Moroni putting this book and sealing up. What is it? 1400-ish years later? He’s still laboring for Christ, only now he is triumphant. In the air, he appeared and brought them forward.

  38:47 And maybe this is a good segue to say this is where your Doctrine and Covenants starts. Joseph will write about this in his history. This is section two. It ends up becoming section two of the Doctrine and Covenants of Moroni’s message to Joseph Smith, him beginning to instruct the young prophet to bring forward the book, to receive priesthood, to organize a church onto the restoration. And in just two weeks after this episode airs, we’ll get to be in the Doctrine and Covenants studying these sections and these revelations.

  39:23 By the way, when Moroni appears to Joseph as a 17-year-old, he starts to quote the Old Testament to him, which is always a dangerous thing to do to quote Old Testament passages to a teenager in the middle of the night, which is why I joke that he had to repeat it four times over the next 24 hours.

  39:41 The first thing Moroni does though is he teaches him a lot of things, but one of the things he does is, for example, he points him to Elijah and he quotes it a little bit different. “I will send unto you, Elijah.” This is Moroni to 17-year-old Joseph, “I will reveal unto you the priesthood by the hand of Elijah, the prophet, and he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers and the hearts of the children will turn to the fathers lest the earth be utterly wasted at his coming.”

  40:15 I don’t want to jump too far ahead, but this is a great Moroni segue here between the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. The Book of Mormon brings us, in my opinion, I think I’ve shared it before but I’ll say it again, the Book of Mormon is the book that brings us to Jesus Christ and His restored church, and the Doctrine and Covenants is the book that will bring us to the Father and the covenants of the Father in the Holy Temple.

  40:45 The Book of Mormon is this witness of Christ to get us into the gate. It’s the gate. We even say it’s the keystone. Well, the keystone is over a doorway. When we get in that doorway, when we get into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we then want to take people to the house of the Lord and the thrust of the Doctrine and Covenants pushes everybody towards the house of the Lord and the Holy Temple. I like to call the Book of Mormon the Book of Salvation through Christ and I like to call the Doctrine and Covenants the Book of Exaltation through Christ’s house in the Holy Temple.

  41:20 I hope as people are closing this book, this book of books, there is no end to the depths of this masterwork of the Book of Mormon that when we read that word the end in Moroni 10 that we say, “Well, this is just the beginning where now I roll into the restored revelations of the mighty prophet of the restoration with Joseph Smith, and now I’m going to let Joseph Smith and the Lord work through me to take me right to the house of the Lord so that I can receive the covenants of exaltation,” which is where the Doctrine and Covenants next year, it’s going to push us right to the house of the Lord from the beginning to the end and Moroni points Joseph right to that.

  42:08 That’s what Elijah is going to do, sealing promises of exaltation, the fathers, Adam, the mothers, Eve, promises planted in your hearts lest the whole earth. That’s the whole point of the earth, seal and bind up the family of God through the power of the holy priesthood to progress forever and become like God. Oh, my goodness gracious. I hope everybody is just giddy to study the Doctrine and Covenants this next year, and I’ve loved studying the Book of Mormon this year and I love this book, and I’m really excited to read its companion, it’s missionary companion, which is the Doctrine and Covenants.

Hank Smith: 42:47 You can almost see Moroni beckoning us forward, “Come on, there’s more. Let me show you.” We know that resurrected beings can weep, and I have to think when Joseph is uncovering the plates for the first time, that Moroni’s eyes are getting big, and then some tears come down as he watches that same book, how long did you say, Anthony? 14?

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 43:12 Yeah, roughly 1400 years.

Hank Smith: 43:15 Come out from where he placed it. Just a beautiful, beautiful story.

John Bytheway: 43:22 I love this idea of Moroni as such an author doing this curtain call at the end. Remember this and remember this. You just know that the work that went into these last 10 verses here, I don’t think he had a dry erase board or a scratch pad. How did he do that? We’ve said this before, Hank. It’s as deep as it is wide. You could go as deep as you want, and I hope people will be thrilled to see that at the end of this and Moroni’s last words.

Hank Smith: 43:53 Anthony, John, it seems fitting that we are ending our four years of study almost where we started four years ago here with uniting the Book of Mormon to the Restoration. I can see why Elder Maxwell said about the Book of Mormon, “My tour,” he says of the Book of Mormon, “is never completed.” He says, “I have rooms yet to enter, flaming fireplaces waiting to warm me, rooms I haven’t even glimpsed with rich detail, panels inlaid with insight and design dating back to Eden. Yet we as church members sometimes behave like hurried tourists, scarcely venturing beyond the entry hall. He said but those of us who spend a lot of time in the Book of Mormon, the whisperings awaken us individually to a life of discipleship as never before.” I think that’s happened for me.

  44:56 Anthony, thank you for being here. John, four years in the books. I remember when we finished that first episode with Anthony, John, I said, “John, our first episode is in the books,” and now, John, I can say our first four years are in the books. Tell me how you’re feeling.

John Bytheway: 45:16 I’m so excited to start again because I feel like, as in your Elder Maxwell quote, there’s so many new things to discover and I’m afraid I’ve forgotten way too much of what we’ve learned. I guess that’s why the Lord wants us to repeat certain things and stay with it, so I’m excited to go back through again not just to learn the information, but to be strengthened in here and to be able to help and strengthen others hopefully as we all do this together.

Hank Smith: 45:43 For anyone listening, come on to YouTube for this episode. If you have any notes for Anthony or anyone on our team, we would love to hear from you. You can also go to our website, followhim.co and contact us there because we would love to hear from you.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 46:00 It’s interesting to me that as we get ready to study the Doctrine and Covenants in a few weeks, when you read section four, section six, section 11, section 12, section 14 and section 18, they all have a similar phrase where they say a marvelous work is about to appear. What’s interesting is after June of 1829, that phrase is not found in the revelations. What’s completed by June of 1829 is the translation of the Book of Mormon.

  46:31 The Lord calls it a marvelous work because some synonyms for marvelous are things like fantastic. I pulled these up, remarkable, awesome, breathtaking, fabulous, wonderful. An unusual work is about to appear phenomenal, strange, wondrous, unbelievable, inconceivable. We had to go Princess Bride there for a second. Incomprehensible, unimaginable, surprising, difficult to believe, stupendous, improbable, phenomenal awe-inspiring, these and many more. Could you imagine the Lord saying, “A phenomenal work is about to appear amongst the children of men, a fantastic work”?

  47:18 And I just bear my testimony, if I could say in other words leave my witness that the Book of Mormon is a marvel and a wonder, that’s what Emma Smith called it. She said she watched her own husband translate. She scribed for him. She watched this happen and at the end of her life she says, “I have not the slightest doubt that that book is true. It is a marvel and a wonder to me as much as to me as to anyone else.” I’d add my witness to that as well that we have concluded studying a book that is a marvel and a wonder and such a gift from God, and I’m so grateful that we have it.

John Bytheway: 47:59 Hank, Anthony, sometimes when I begin a class on the Book of Mormon, I like to tell my class, “We have a special guest. Sister Lucy Mack Smith will be coming out today,” and I’ve never been able to make it happen, really, but imagine her coming out and saying something like, “Do you know what it cost my family to bring you this book?” and this is my plea to not be a casual reader, but a serious student of the Book of Mormon. A casual reader will go by it too fast, but a serious student will find treasure and help and hope and healing in this book.

  48:36 I want to thank the Smith family for the sacrifices they went through to bring this book to us. That’s what I think Lucy Mack Smith might say, “It cost my family dearly. My sons are gone. My family’s been through a lot,” but they were chosen to be the ones to bring it forth, and I’m grateful for them. Grateful that my dad picked one up, was dragged off his bunk on an aircraft carrier to go to the church services. Then I watched him every morning for a half an hour study the Book of Mormon for his whole life. Such a good student of the Book of Mormon, and that really is a bedrock of my testimony is I watched what it did for my dad. He grew and changed and refined, and I’m really thankful for the power of the Book of Mormon and the witness of the Savior that it has.

Hank Smith: 49:30 I had an experience this last summer, my friends Steve and Kristen Samuel, and we were at the publication site of the Book of Mormon in Palmyra. Steve and Kristen had brought with them an original copy of the Book of Mormon. They said, “We wanted to bring it back into this building.” It hadn’t been there in 194 years. They let me sit on the bench there and hold it and thumb through it. That was such a moving experience for me, but I just sat there with this book going, just this individual copy, “Where have you been? Who has read from these pages? How many lives have you changed and touched, this book.”

  50:22 You can see why Elder Holland said, “I want it absolutely clear when I stand before the judgment bar of God that I declared to the world in the most straightforward language I could summon, the Book of Mormon is true.” It came forth the way Joseph said it came forth and it was given to bring happiness and hope to the faithful in the travail of the latter days.

  50:49 John and Anthony, I’m sure you both agree it has done that for us. Well, with that, we want to thank Dr. Anthony Sweat for being with us. Thank you, Anthony.

Dr. Anthony Sweat: 51:03 Man, thanks you guys again for, not to wax too nostalgic, but man, what a blessing, privilege that I’ve got to be on from show one to show now. I express my brotherly love to both of you. I love you like my own flesh and blood and brothers because you are, and I’m so grateful to be engaged in this work and so grateful to every listener out there that is part of this with us. Grateful to be with you in spirit and via podcast and via video, and we’re just engaged in this great work that the Lord is doing, and I love you guys and grateful for what you’re doing. I wish you the best as you keep doing it.

Hank Smith: 51:42 We love you. We are fans of Anthony Sweat. We need to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen. Shannon, we love you.

John Bytheway: 51:54 Yeah, we love you. We’re so thankful to you. This experience has taught me, but it’s changed me and it’s changed my family to be involved in this, so thank you, Shannon. Thank you Steve.

Hank Smith: 52:07 To Shannon, your children, your grandchildren, we love you. We need to thank David and Verla Sorensen. Verla is 90 plus years old, still reading her scriptures every day. Verla, we know you’re listening and we adore you and thank you. I remember that first phone call, John. It was December of 2020. My friend Steve, Steve Sorensen called me, said, “Brother Hank, call me back. I got an idea.” My life changed there and I am certain that Steve would love what’s happened over these last four years. So Steve, we know you’re listening. We love you.

  52:57 We hope you’ll join us. Next week, we’re going to have our Christmas episode with Brother and Sister Meredith from the great city of Rexburg, Idaho, leaders at Brigham Young University there in Idaho, and then join us the week after that for our next four years of followHIM.

  53:17 Before you skip to the next episode, I have some important information. This episode’s transcript and show notes are available on our website, followhim.co. That’s followhim.co. On our website, you’ll also find our two free books, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament and Finding Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Both books are full of short and powerful quotes and insights from all our episodes from the Old and New Testaments. The digital copies of these books are absolutely free. You can watch the podcast on YouTube. Also, our Facebook and Instagram accounts have videos and extras you won’t find anywhere else.

  53:51 If you’d like to know how you can help us, if you could subscribe too, rate, review and comment on the podcast, that will make us easier to find. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew, David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilson, Will Stockton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, and Annabelle Sorensen.

President Russell M. Nelson: 54:12 Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to Him. Follow Him.