Hank Smith: 00:04 Hello my friends, welcome to another episode of followHIM. My name is Hank Smith, I’m your host. I’m here with my wandering co-host, John Bytheway. John, Moroni says, “I wander.” And I know you love Moroni, so I figured you can be my wandering co-host.

John Bytheway: 00:22 I’m a marvelous work in a wander.

Hank Smith: 00:24 Yeah. Oh, John, you’re so quick on things like that. John, we are in the opening chapters of Moroni 1-6, although it’s not a lot of content here.

John Bytheway: 00:40 A couple of pages, yeah.

Hank Smith: 00:42 John, you’ve written a book on Moroni, so talk to me, what are you looking forward to?

John Bytheway: 00:48 It sounds like he did not plan on doing this, and when he shows up in Moroni Chapter One, he’s like, “Well, I have a few things to say, they might be of benefit to my brethren the Lamanites in some future day.” And then gives us Moroni 1-10. Are you kidding? Some of the greatest things, and chapters, and insights, and then Moroni’s Promise, I’m so glad he decided to keep going. So it’s fun to see what he decided to include once in Ether and once in Mormon, it sounds like he’s saying goodbye, then he comes back.

Hank Smith: 01:20 John, to help us out today we have Dr. Shalise Adams with us. Shalise, what are you looking forward to in Moroni 1-6?

Dr. Shalise Adams: 01:29 At the first of the Book of Mormon, we are taught to liken the scriptures to ourselves. By the end of the Book of Mormon, I am hopeful that we’re pretty good at that application process. These 25 verses are familiar to us, sometimes it’s easy to gloss over them, but they’re so important. And for Moroni to take the time to include them, there must be something else we need to take another look at.

Hank Smith: 01:55 I love that. John, Shalise, you are right, there’s more here than you might think. We’re almost done with the book, we’re looking forward to say, “I read the Book of Mormon.” But slow down for a second and stop here because if you do a close reading, there’s more here that can really bless your life. Now John, Shalise has never been with us before, but to you and I, Shalise is an old friend. I’ve known Shalise, I think 20 years.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 02:25 Close, yeah.

Hank Smith: 02:27 But John, I don’t know if our audience will know who she is, so can you introduce her?

John Bytheway: 02:31 Absolutely. Dr. Shalise Adams, now we know her, Hank, because they used to have a Boise Youth Spectacular, Shalise was heavily involved in that. That’s how I met Shalise at first, just a delightful person, one of those people that has had a tremendous impact on the young people up there in Boise. We’re thrilled to have Shalise with us, she was born in Hyde Park. Doesn’t Hyde Park sound kind of British almost? I was born in the Hyde Park.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 03:02 Very proper.

John Bytheway: 03:04 Hyde Park. And yeah, her parents are still there, she has five siblings. Shalise has a doctorate in audiology from Utah State University, and that’s hearing. And I’m looking at this, how you spell audiology, thinking maybe that’s like auditorium and stuff, maybe it comes from the same word where you go to hear. She has a bachelor’s degree in communicative disorders, she’s the Director of Audiology in a clinic in Boise, so welcome Shalise.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 03:35 Glad to be here.

Hank Smith: 03:37 I’m very happy, I’ve been looking forward to this recording for a long time. Let’s jump in, I’m going to read from the Come, Follow Me manual. This lesson is called, “To Keep Them in the Right Way.” It starts out like this, “After finishing his father’s record of the Nephites and abridging the record of the Jaredites, Moroni thought that his record-keeping work was done. What more was there to say about two nations that were utterly destroyed? But Moroni had seen our time, and he was inspired to write a few more things that perhaps they may be of worth in some future day.” That’s an understatement. “He knew that widespread apostasy was coming, bringing with it, confusion about priesthood ordinances, about religion in general. This may be why he gave clarifying details about sacrament, baptism, conferring the Holy Ghost, and blessings of gathering with fellow believers, to keep each other in the right way, relying alone upon the merits of Christ, who is the author and finisher of our faith. Precious insights like these give us reason to be thankful that the Lord preserved Moroni’s life so he could write a few more things.”

  04:45 Oh man, whoever’s writing this manual, keep going, you’re doing great. With that, Shalise, where do we want to start? This isn’t a long section, like you said, 25 verses.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 04:56 I’d love to take a look at verse one. Moroni says, “I suppose not to have written anymore, but I have not yet perished.” Maybe Moroni was pretty excited to finish this book as well. He says formally three different times, “I’m done.” Twice in the first four verses, he even says, “I didn’t think I would write anymore.” I think that he also was done here, but I want to back up just a touch and look at Moroni’s journey. When we first learn about Moroni, he’s in the middle of a lot of really hard things. His people are at war and they are not winning, it’s not looking good, his world is falling apart and he’s pretty helpless to change anything about that, and then his father dies and he is truly alone.

  05:45 In Mormon 8, I want you to listen to a couple of these phrases. Feel how Moroni is feeling. He says, “I have not friends nor whither to go. My father had been slain in battle and all of my kinsfolk. I’m alone to write the sad tale of the destruction of my people. I don’t know how long I will live and whither I go, it mattereth not.” Can you just feel that loneliness? He’s alone for a long time. We know it’s 36 years, that’s heartbreaking, but I don’t think that’s very different than lots of us. We’re not maybe in these circumstances, but loneliness is something that we have to experience in this life and everybody does. When have you felt like this, like, I don’t have any friends, I don’t belong, my life is hard, it doesn’t matter what I do, I don’t know where I’m going? I think we all feel like that.

Hank Smith: 06:38 Shalise, you’re making me tear up here in the very beginning, don’t do this to me. In my local sphere here teaching in Provo, there’s an epidemic of loneliness. That’s what BYU’s President, Shane Reese has said, “Here we have 35,000 Latter-day Saints,” and that’s just students, not to count all the employees, ” so many of them are lonely.”

Dr. Shalise Adams: 07:03 Well, don’t you feel like loneliness is because people don’t see your circumstance, they don’t get it, they don’t understand how you’re feeling? That’s why we feel lonely, is because we feel like nobody’s in there with us.

John Bytheway: 07:16 Moroni, he’s got no one to talk to, it’s so interesting that his whole focus shifted to us way in the future. We can’t respond, but he cared enough to say, “Let me tell you a few more things that will bless you.” From his place of loneliness. Boy, it’s just a good thing with the epidemic of loneliness going on that we didn’t have to go through a pandemic or anything like that.

Hank Smith: 07:44 Man, can you imagine?

John Bytheway: 07:46 I’m just hoping that what we do today will help those who are feeling lonely and maybe give them someone to identify with in a small way.

Hank Smith: 07:57 I love that, John.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 07:58 I think loneliness is something we have to approach and deal with, and I think it’s appropriate to sit in that grief or that feeling for a time, but I think the first thing that we learned from Moroni is that we can’t stay there. Moroni finishes his father’s records and he thinks he’s done, he finishes the Jaredite plates and he thinks he’s done, but still, no, the Lord still has something for him to do. Sometimes we have to sit in a place that we’re uncomfortable for longer than we wish, and it would be easy to give up and to say, I don’t want to do that anymore, or I can’t, or why me, or I’m tired. Moroni chooses to do something different, he chooses to be productive and to be serviceable to people that he doesn’t even know. Who knows what cave he’s holed up in because he’s running for his life, but he’s still trying to be productive and to be involved in God’s work, and that’s what we have to do to combat that lonely feeling or that place that we’re sitting in.

Hank Smith: 08:58 That’s a wonderful insight because sometimes the suffering is, what do I do? I got to read this to you. The Surgeon General of the United States actually made a statement about loneliness. It said something like this, “Widespread loneliness in the United States poses health risks as deadly as smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day. We now know that loneliness is a common feeling that many people experience, it’s like hunger or thirst. It’s a feeling the body sends us when something we need for survival is missing.”

  09:36 I think I’ve mentioned this before, John. I know that the government in the UK, they actually appointed in their leadership, a Secretary of Loneliness, because they were finding people who had passed away in their homes and it’d been months. They had no friends, no one was checking on them. What you’ve given us, Shalise, I love that. I can still take part in God’s work. Moroni says, “Well, I thought I was done.” It’s almost like he says, “I’m going to refuse to sit, I’m going to do something.” What’d you say? Something productive.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 10:12 Do you think that when Moroni appears to Joseph Smith and he tells him that the fullness of the gospel is contained in this book, maybe he thought, “That hard thing that I did, it was okay, I’m okay. It turned out for the best and God really did have my back.”? President Nelson said, “Saints can be happy under every circumstance. We can feel joy even when we’re having a bad day, a bad week or a bad year. My dear brothers and sisters, the joy that we feel has little to do with the circumstances of our lives and everything to do with the focus of our lives. Joy comes from and because of him, he’s a source of all joy, Jesus Christ is joy.” Today really, hopefully what we’re trying to figure out is how we can endure any of the trials that we’re going through and find joy and purpose in the middle.

Hank Smith: 11:03 Shalise, what you’re hitting on right now is incredibly relevant. I can almost feel our listeners out there going, “Yeah, that’s me, what do you want me to do? What do I do?” I hope everybody listening will stay with us as Shalise lays this out.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 11:20 Watching different people and friends go through hard things, I came up with a list of just the last couple of weeks, the passing of somebody that’s loved, watching people go through something that’s hard where we can’t help, or mental illness or addiction, dealing with a difficult diagnosis and being unable to make ends meet, being unable to have the family or the circumstances that you thought you would, and the list goes on and on. Everywhere we look, we find people that are struggling with this lonely feeling and it is part of life.

Hank Smith: 11:53 I remember when my incredible mother-in-law passed away. I was talking to my father-in-law, and how are you doing? And he said, “I’m lonely, but I’m mostly lonely for her.” So it wasn’t like, “Hey, I’m just going to surround you with grandkids.” And that would be good, he loves his grandchildren, but I like what you said there, the passing, losing a loved one, it can be I’m lonely for that person, I feel like I’ve lost a part of me.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 12:24 You can feel lonely in so many circumstances, you can feel lonely and be surrounded by people. It’s not necessarily about being isolated physically.

John Bytheway: 12:37 I remember on a previous episode we talked about Mormon Chapter 8, and when Moroni says, “You know what? I make an end of speaking concerning this people. I am Moroni, I am a son of Mormon and I’m going to finish this record.” He goes through a time where he feels the loneliness, as you said, and then what’s the phrase they sometimes use in therapy? He got sick and tired of being sick and tired and he said, “This is who I am, this is what I’m going to do. I’m going to finish this record.” And it’s this awesome turning point for Moroni when he does find a purpose that gets him fired up, and we are so thankful that it did.

Hank Smith: 13:17 All of a sudden, I remember teaching this as a young seminary teacher. We were talking about Moroni and we were talking about how lonely he must have been. One student, she raised her hand and she said, “What did he do on his birthday?” And I said, “What?” And she said, “What did he do on his birthday?” And I said, “Who?” She said, “Moroni. Can’t you picture him?” And then she went just like this, she like mimed having a cupcake, she went, “Happy birthday, dear Moroni, happy birthday to me.” And she blew out the candle. She looked up at me and another girl in the class, I remember her name’s Kirsten, she said, “That’s so sad.” And she started like to really tear up. I shouldn’t laugh at that, but I will remember, it’s 20 years ago and I still remember such a funny moment.

John Bytheway: 14:13 It’s pretty funny that that’s where a teenager would go is, “But what about your birthday?” I’m at the point I don’t want any more birthdays or even anybody to know.

Hank Smith: 14:25 Okay, that’s funny. All right, Shalise, what should we do next?

Dr. Shalise Adams: 14:28 Chapter One. This book starts with a lot of uncertainty, which we’ve kind of already talked about, but also a lot of testimony. My favorite part about that is that both can exist. You can have uncertainty and not maybe know what your next steps are. Moroni is pretty honest about not knowing what comes next, but also the testimony is there. Verse One, he says, “I make not myself known to the Lamanites, lest they should destroy me. And because of their hatred they put to death every Nephite that will not deny the Christ.” And then

Dr. Shalise Adams: 15:00 Here comes his testimony.

John Bytheway: 15:01 Moroni 1:3 “I, Moroni will not deny the Christ. Wherefore, I wander whithersoever I can for the safety of my own life.”

Dr. Shalise Adams: 15:13 This resolve, this is what pushes us through to all of the rest of the chapters. This is where it starts for Moroni probably, but also for the rest of us. Our testimony of Jesus Christ makes everything else bearable and everything else easier. I think it’s easy for us to think of all of the ways that we deny Christ, but I want us to think a little bit about what the opposite of that means. What does it mean to not deny? What does that look like in our lives?

Hank Smith: 15:41 I really like that twist on that. I can testify a lot, but are there moments where I won’t deny?

Dr. Shalise Adams: 15:49 Well, I think it can be as simple as letting him into our lives or allowing him in, accepting the things that we’re taught. Not giving up on what’s going on.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 16:02 I think it’s also allowing that testimony to govern our life and the outcome of our life and how we manage it. It’s asking for a relationship with the Savior that can change us.

Hank Smith: 16:13 I like the boundary he sets. I will not deny the Christ. There might be benefits if I do, but I won’t.

  16:23 I remember a student a long time ago said something I just was touched by, so I wrote it down. She had told me about leaving a party or something and she left alone. Something was happening where she thought, this isn’t good, I shouldn’t be here. She told a couple of friends, I’m leaving and they said, well, I’m staying. So she went home all alone and I said, oh, kind of sad, and she said, no, not really. I’d rather go home with the Holy Ghost and not with friends than with friends and without the Holy Ghost. So it was like a line. There’s certain things I don’t do no matter what.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 17:00 You have to make a choice. In that same verse, Moroni still says, I wander, so it was still effort and it was still hard, but that’s the choice you made. That’s the line you drew.

Hank Smith: 17:14 It might not work out, right? It might not. I will not deny the Christ and then it’s supposed to be like a church video where all these wonderful things happen because you did not deny.

John Bytheway: 17:23 I love that you pointed out that there’s an absolute in Moroni’s life. There’s a I will not deny the Christ. Everything else is unknown, but there’s one thing that’s known and that is his rock. By definition, to wander means you don’t know where you’re going, but you do know who you’ve built your life on. I love that if I have this one known, there is a Christ, I can deal with the unknowns.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 17:50 That’s a decision that we make every day. It’s not something we make once and we’re good. It’s something we have to continually commit to and continue that resolve.

Hank Smith: 18:01 Shalise, I’ve already got notes here just on this one page. We’ve got to keep going to the next page because I’ve run out of room.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 18:09 Before we do, I have just a thought from President Nelson in his very last conference. He talks about this very thing. He says, “My decision to follow Jesus Christ is the most important decision I have ever made. During medical school, I gained a testimony of the divinity of God, the Father, and his son, Jesus Christ. Since then, our Savior has been the rock upon which I have built my life. That choice has made all the difference. That decision has made so many other decisions easier. The decision has given me purpose and direction. It also has helped me weather the storms of life.”

John Bytheway: 18:44 Wow. That is a perfect quotation for this feeling in the first chapter of, I made a decision to follow Christ. I love that he says on the opposite side, I make not myself known unto my enemies, and it’s like captain obvious. I don’t go where my enemies are. I don’t go there. There’s an application for us. I don’t go where I know I might be weak or tempted or compromised for the safety of my own life, for the safety of my own spirit. I don’t go where my enemies are. I’ve decided to follow Christ. I just like that idea.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 19:16 Don’t you think that’s like we stand in holy places because that’s where we’re safe and I think that’s what he’s doing too. When I’m wandering, it’s because I’m going to where I know that I can be safe and find security.

Hank Smith: 19:31 You guys, now I have to write more. I’m running out of room on my plates and or have I none, right?

John Bytheway: 19:38 It used to be you had to go to the great spacious building to find temptation, but now the great spacious building finds you.

Hank Smith: 19:47 Let’s go to the next page because I’ve got some room to write.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 19:54 Once we’ve made this resolve, the following chapters are the things that help us be firm in that testimony. The following chapters include sacred practices that help us invite Jesus Christ into our lives, and they allow us to help and support that testimony that we are trying to commit to again and again. In Moroni’s loneliness, do you think maybe some of these things are things that he missed the most? Or the things that he wanted us to know would help us in these circumstances?

Hank Smith: 20:22 Shalise, you’re going to make me cry again. Yeah, I can imagine him going, I remember what it was like to be around saints and have these things happen.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 20:32 The next five chapters that we talk about are like the church handbook. Even though the Savior taught all these things already, so maybe a little more detailed and maybe a little more pointed to the manner that we should do things.

  20:46 Both chapters two and three talk about formal priesthood authority and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Chapter four and five are the sacrament prayers, and then chapter six is how we function as a church and the importance of that.

Hank Smith: 21:03 And coming from someone who’s lonely, that makes it even more touching.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 21:07 Let’s take the chapters one at a time. Chapter two begins by teaching the Holy Ghost is there for all of the followers of Christ, and I think Moroni may be knew how important this particular gift was for anyone that’s trying to make life decisions. For somebody who’s trying to lead a ward or a young women’s group or teach a primary class. All right, let’s jump into two.

John Bytheway: 21:28 Moroni 2: 1. “The words of Christ, which he spake unto his disciples, the 12 whom he had chosen as he laid his hands upon them.”

Dr. Shalise Adams: 21:38 Here we’re just establishing the line of authority that the Holy Ghost goes to the disciples, but it all comes from Jesus Christ. That’s where things start.

Hank Smith: 21:47 I really like that. He’s not saying, I made this up on my own.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 21:51 No. Continue with verse two.

John Bytheway: 21:55 Verse two. “And he called them by name saying, ye shall call on the Father in my name in mighty prayer, and after you have done this, ye shall have power that to him upon whom ye shall lay your hands, ye shall give the Holy Ghost and in my name shall ye give it for thus do mine Apostles.”

Dr. Shalise Adams: 22:13 So many things in this verse that I love. I love that it starts with calling them by name. I love that their name is something that’s important. When we call somebody by name, it makes them feel loved. I am definitely guilty of saying, hey, friend, or hey. When somebody uses your name, there is a deeper connection.

Hank Smith: 22:33 It comes back to his nature. He’s a one by one Savior. We’ve talked about that multiple times this year.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 22:41 Yeah. It’s important too that then in turn, we call him by name. We call on the father in the name of Jesus Christ. Elder Rasband said that calling on the name of Jesus brings power and light into a situation. I think it’s so interesting that that simple thing we can do at any time and bring light into our life. I don’t think we think about that when we are saying our prayers in the morning, but that’s really what’s going on.

Hank Smith: 23:09 That connection, me and you. And you could probably use that anywhere in life.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 23:14 Oh, sure.

Hank Smith: 23:16 I’m inviting you into my work. I’m inviting you into my career, my relationship with my children. Please, I’m inviting you. I’m calling on your name.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 23:25 Then it says they call upon the Father in mighty prayer. Only after they had done that does then something else happen. It leads me to believe that receiving the Holy Ghost can happen, but the person conferring that gift has to be involved enough with the Lord that they ask for his help first.

  23:45 It says in verse three, “On as many as they laid their hands, fell the Holy Ghost.” I love that it didn’t matter who you were, if that was something that you desired, as many can have it. There’s not a limit there, and for those of us that didn’t want Third Nephi to end, this is more. This is more detailed stuff from the Savior that we find here in this chapter.

Hank Smith: 24:07 Yeah, that’s me. When Mormon says, I can’t tell you one-one hundredth of what Jesus taught, please tell me two-one hundredth of what Jesus thought, please. Here we get a little bit more.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 24:19 We have the Holy Ghost as something that we are given, but in that prayer, correct me if I’m wrong, we are told to receive the Holy Ghost, so it’s something that has to be an active thing on our part as well. When the gift of the Holy Ghost is given, the person that’s conferring that gift uses the words, receive the Holy Ghost, it doesn’t just happen. You have to receive that. If an important guest is coming to your home, how do you prepare for that? The Holy Ghost is no different. We have to make space. We have to have him feel comfortable. We can’t be doing things that cause that gift to leave.

  25:08 One of my most favorite things that I do with my job is I help people hear. Now, for most of us, hearing gradually declines over time as our ears get birthdays, that is just what happens. You can’t stop it, but because it happens so gradually, often people don’t notice that they have lost anything until it gets hard to communicate or until it gets hard to hear a grandkid or a spouse or I can’t hear any background noise. When they find a situation that’s difficult enough, they find me or somebody that can help them.

  25:46 Once they recognize that something’s missing and it’s difficult and that they’re motivated to do something about it, then we can get to work. But only then they have to be committed to that process.

  25:56 It’s pretty individual. What works for one person does not work for everybody. We start, we do a hearing test or an audiogram, and we figure out the areas of deficit that a person has or the degree of loss. Then we pick an appropriate amplification solution or hearing aid and all are not the same. They’re not all created equal. Then we take some measurements of your ear canal to make sure that it’s appropriate for you specifically. Then we fit the hearing aid.

  26:26 Now right at first, we give all that sound back because we’ve lost it gradually over time. It is a lot. Our brains say, oh, I’m not sure I like it. I had a patient come in and she said, oh, it’s too loud, can we turn it down? So we do. She says, still too loud so we turn it down again and I just can’t make this woman happy. So I turned it off and she’s like, that is perfect. I’m so happy.

  26:50 She obviously was not ready for this process, but the point being is we don’t become comfortable with that device until we’ve used it consistently, until we learn how to hear again. So we have to retrain the brain how to hear all of those sounds, but just because we have it, if it ends up in a drawer, it doesn’t do any good, or if we only use it when we go out to dinner with friends, it doesn’t do any good because it’s always foreign. It has to be something that we use consistently, and the spirit is no different. It doesn’t do us any good if we just use it when we’re doing a really hard thing or we keep it in a drawer. We know we have it, but we don’t spend any effort on making it work for us.

Hank Smith: 27:33 And just, hey, whenever I need the Holy Ghost, I’ll use him, but not daily. Do you ever have to get after patients like, hey, we talked about this.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 27:45 Oh, yeah. In the hearing aids, usually I can see how often they’re wearing that device, and I usually don’t tell patients that I can see that, but if somebody comes in and says, I’m not doing well, or I don’t really like these, and I can say, well, we have to wear it consistently. It’s a process. I try to be nice.

Hank Smith: 28:03 Yeah, try to be nice. That fits my experiences with the Holy Ghost. It cannot be a, hey, I really need your help this time. It’s a relationship.

John Bytheway: 28:13 How many lessons have we heard about learning to listen to the Holy Ghost? The idea of learning to listen is very interesting. You’d think it’s just automatic, but what you’re saying, Shalise is you have to learn to listen. I like that idea.

Hank Smith: 28:29 Yeah. That gradual hearing loss, that’s an interesting concept. I don’t even know I’m losing my hearing until there’s a moment where I, wait, right? This is different than it was long ago.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 28:44 That’s not any different than in our own lives. We have good and bad times and we gradually get to a point where we think, oh, I need to do better, and so we do, and that’s important.

Hank Smith: 28:55 We go to the Lord or to Shalise, and we say, I can’t hear anymore. What do I need to do?

Dr. Shalise Adams: 29:05 Yeah. It’s not the same for everybody. We don’t always manage that situation the same, and that’s okay. We all have different spiritual gifts. God speaks to us differently and that’s okay.

Hank Smith: 29:18 Yeah. I love that Jesus can fit you with a hearing aid. I can help you hear the Holy Ghost and maybe go to the scriptures, go to in prayer, reading general conference. All of a sudden your hearing comes back, your spiritual hearing. John, you always say that. I hope you’re listening with your spiritual ears.

John Bytheway: 29:40 Yeah, I can’t remember. I heard somebody say that, and I love the idea of listen with your spiritual ears. Scripturally, he that hath ears to hear, let him hear. They’re listening a little deeper.

  29:51 When I was a student at BYU, I decided to take flying lessons, something I’d always wanted to do. My first instructor had really nice headphones with a microphone

John Bytheway: 30:00 so I could hear him perfectly the whole time. I could focus on what I was doing in front of me in the airplane. Then he moved on and I got a new instructor and no headphones. You’re sitting in an airplane with a propeller in front of you. It’s kind of loud. I found with my new instructor, I had to lean in. I had to even look. I found there was a little extra effort there and it always reminds me in 3 Nephi where it says that, this time they did open their ears to hear it, that they did something different. They did something. Maybe that’s the listen-with-your-spiritual-ears thing. They moved in. They got closer because some heard Jesus and went, “Huh,” and walked away and others were listening differently and came and asked him more and I guess that’s what we’re being asked to do.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 30:53 Hearing from most of us is it just happens, but we choose what to give place. Talking about in 3 Nephi, everybody probably heard it, but did they choose to heed it or choose to listen? President Nelson talks a lot about hearing him, but he also, in 1991, he gave a talk that was called Learn to Listen, and I think he’s making a point. You have to learn what to listen to. I think we have to be pretty intentional about creating time and space to hear God’s voice or to hear the Holy Ghost and we have to carve out time, so that it becomes clear and familiar and a usable tool. It’s not something we can put in a drawer. We have to take it out and use it and be familiar with it, can be effective.

Hank Smith: 31:35 I bet there’s people listening right now, who feel two kinds of guilt. I’m not doing well listening to the Holy Ghost and I put my hearing aid in my drawer.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 31:44 That’s not the intention here.

Hank Smith: 31:45 Yeah.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 31:46 Well, maybe a little bit. I think in contrast to that, there are so many distractions. There are so many things that we have in the world around us that it is hard. Solitary time is important and I think that we don’t get a lot of that sometimes just by our own choosing. I was watching an episode of Family Feud and they said, “What’s the first thing people reach for in their morning?” And what do you think it was?

Hank Smith: 32:08 Phone, has to be. Yeah.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 32:10 Their phone. Everybody reaches for their phone and then we get sucked in. You can sit there on your phone and you’re just going to check the weather, but then your Instagram timer limit goes off and you think, “What have I done? I got to get to work.” But I think it just happens. We can get distracted so easily. So, back to that intentional thing, we got to make time. We got to make it a priority.

Hank Smith: 32:33 That’s interesting. I don’t do that. I do not reach for my phone first thing in the morning. Please don’t ask my wife about it. Just trust me.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 32:43 I had an experience at Girls Camp recently. We were up in the mountains and it was beautiful and there was no cell service, which was even more beautiful. We were having a testimony meeting so it was dark and we could see the stars and we could hear the crickets and the fire crackling and several girls shared a testimony and then it was quiet. Nobody said anything. As the leader, I thought, everybody’s having a bad experience. Everybody’s uncomfortable, but it was that stillness and that quiet that’s probably exactly what they need to even reflect on their thoughts. How often do we get quiet time? Especially the youth, there’s distractions on every turn of the head. It was a beautiful quiet silence for me.

Hank Smith: 33:30 The earbuds are frequently in. It’s constant, which isn’t a bad thing, but I like what you said there, which is take time to let it be silent. President Hinckley said, his dad would go outside and sit on a wall. Just for hours, he would sit on a stone wall. Gordon would say, “Dad, what are you doing?” And he said, “Son, I like to come out here and just think. Be alone with my thoughts.”

John Bytheway: 33:56 I had a student once who was a mom who was coming back to school and she raised her hand and she said, “Hey, I sent my son way back in ’97 on that mega Pioneer Trek.” They started in Nauvoo and ended in Salt Lake City, and I don’t know exactly how they did it or how they divided it up.

Hank Smith: 34:13 Now, John, I have to take a timeout because this is my favorite, one of my favorite subjects. In 2047, I am going to be part of that group, so if anybody is organizing this out there, I want to be in the group. In fact, if I die on the trail, awesome. I died on the trail between Nauvoo and Salt Lake. Okay, back to you, John.

John Bytheway: 34:44 With your face towards Zion, and I will be in your handcart. You can pull me and I’ll just take my hearing aids out. No, this would’ve been the sesquicentennial of 150 years. She said, “I dropped my son off,” and okay, get ready for an ’80s reference. They took his Sony Walkman and his earphones. For the young listeners, a Sony Walkman was a miniature cassette player. They didn’t have earbuds, so it was regular headphones. And she said that, he was upset about that and she was like, “Oh, no. They took his Sony Walkman and his earphones. He’s not going to have a good time and he’s going to be mad at me.” And I don’t know if he did segments, if he did the whole thing, I don’t remember. But she said, “When I picked him up, he told me, mom, I learned what it means to ponder.” All he had was the sound of the ox walking in front of him, the beautiful prairies and landscapes in front of him, thought about his life, reordered his life, everything. I just think that doesn’t happen if he’s listening to music the whole way. It was a great story and I thought exactly what you guys are both saying. Sometimes, we think, “Well, there’s not something going on. I better turn something on. I better ask Siri to play something for me.” Maybe there’s some real value in that silence that you just talked about, Shalise, and for this kid, it turned him around because he had time to ponder.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 36:08 Can I share with you something that Michelle Craig said? She said, “the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that most often, God reveals himself to individuals in private, in their chamber, in their wilderness, or fields and that generally, without noise. Satan wants to separate us from God’s voice by keeping us out of those quiet places. If God speaks in a still small voice, you and I need to draw close to hear him. Just imagine what would happen if we were as intent on staying connected with heaven as we are staying connected to the Wi-Fi. Pick a time and place and listen for God’s voice every day and keep this sacred appointment with exactness for so very much depends on it.”

John Bytheway: 36:51 That is so good.

Hank Smith: 36:53 I’m thinking of Joseph Smith’s statement after James 1:5. He talks about the passage of scripture going into his heart. Then he says this, “I reflected on it again and again.” Joseph Smith’s probably doing a lot of walking and planting and has some time to reflect on it again and again. Right on.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 37:15 Don’t you think our Prophet pleas again and again for us to increase our spiritual capacity? He says it over and over. 2018, he says, it won’t be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting and constant influence of the Holy Ghost. But he says that more than once. I don’t know if you all know this, but John Bytheway, here with us today, wrote a book about Moroni and in this book, he shares a study by Sister Wendy Watson Nelson. Tell us the story.

John Bytheway: 37:47 Sister Wendy Watson, before she was Wendy Watson Nelson, she gave a talk called Let Your Spirit Take the Lead. And this is what she said. They conducted an experiment with a group of women over two weeks. So, here was the instructions. For five days in your morning prayers, they were told to pray with concerted effort for the Holy Ghost to be with them that day. And then throughout the day, as they encountered any difficult, tempting, or trying situation, they were to pray for and really picture the Spirit being right there with them. And then she said, “The experiences of these women blew us all away.” Among the results they experienced were, and there’s all these bullet points, an increased desire to de-junk their physical environments, a greatly reduced desire to watch TV, an increased desire to reach out to others and follow through on commitments, an increased ability to be kinder, gentler, and more patient, an increased desire to take care of their bodies by living the Lord’s law of health more fully, an increased ability to see how they could have handled situations better, an increased focus and increased ability to desire to really study and learn.

  38:59 They found that old habits of backbiting, gossiping, and cynicalness fell away, a dramatic increase in their physical energy because energy-draining negative emotions were gone and an unbelievable reduction in stress and profound changes in their conversations with others. That was Let Your Spirit Take the Lead. It was a talk on CD, that Deseret Book published in 2004. I thought you could hire personal success coaches and spend thousands of dollars and not get those results. Imagine the Holy Ghost really being with you and guiding you every day. Pray for it and picture him being with you and watch the changes that come.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 39:45 But who wouldn’t want those things? But all they had to do was ask. That’s it. They asked. That’s miraculous.

Hank Smith: 39:54 That is wonderful. In my scripture reading and studying the words of the prophets, the Holy Ghost becomes a means, when the Holy Ghost enters into me that it can bring the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ into me. When the Holy Ghost can get in my heart, I think Joseph Fielding Smith said, it can weave the Atonement throughout the fibers and sinews of the body. Sounds like what was happening there.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 40:23 We have to invite it in, receive it.

John Bytheway: 40:26 I was thinking of that movie Cast Away where Tom Hanks was on this island. He made this volleyball his companion, and I would be praying all the time because that’s where I would find some companionship, not volleyball. I would be praying, and it’s interesting to me that we talk about the companionship of the Holy Ghost. Here we are talking about Moroni being so lonely and what does he come out with. You can have the companionship of the Holy Ghost. I looked up the word comfort and it comes from the same. The com is community companion and fort is strong. Coolest thing, the word comfort means together strong. The Holy Ghost is called the comforter. How appropriate for Moroni, who’s so alone to tell us right off that you can have companionship of the Holy Ghost.

Hank Smith: 41:22 John, I think you offended half the world because they cried over that volleyball.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 41:36 In Moroni’s 36 years alone, how important was it to have a companion there? As a single adult, I feel like I have a lot of solitary time. Sometimes, it does feel lonely, but when it’s important to feel like I’m not alone, I feel like because of this gift, because of the Holy Ghost, I don’t always feel alone. I have a gift of the Holy Ghost to help me tackle life and to be a companion, so that I don’t have to feel the weight of that singleness hanging over me.

Hank Smith: 42:10 Thanks for that, Shalise.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 42:12 I definitely want us to spend some time with chapters four and five, the Sacrament prayers, but I think it’s important to briefly discuss three. This is Moroni wants us to know about the priesthood organization and that it operated and existed in an ancient church and because of the restoration of the gospel, it exists today, as well, and it’s used to bless lives and that’s what it was intended to do, but also that it’s available to everybody through the ordinance of the sacrament that we get to discuss next.

Hank Smith: 42:42 That’s wonderful. I noticed how many times when they’re talking about priesthood here, it’s the Father, the Son, again, Jesus Christ, again in chapter three, through Jesus Christ, and then at the end of four, the power of the Holy Ghost. Sometimes, we talk about the power of the priesthood as if it’s not connected to divinity, but the power is not in the person who holds the priesthood. The power is in the Godhead.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 43:10 President Freeman talked about this in the last conference. We focus on the office instead of the power that it unlocks, I think were her words. That’s a beautiful way to think about it. The priesthood is actually the power to repent and the power to have a second chance and to overcome sin and temptation. Those are all President Freeman’s words, but that’s a beautiful way to look at it.

Hank Smith: 43:32 Shalise, I think that is such a crucial point. In the last 10, 20 years, this has been something that we are talking about more and more, that the power of the priesthood comes from the ordinances. So, men and women who are part of these ordinances have priesthood power.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 43:49 Sure. President Oaks, he talks about this. He says, “Priesthood power blesses all of us, priesthood keys direct women as well as men, and priesthood ordinances and priesthood authority pertain to women, as well as men.” Sometimes, we miss that. We miss that it’s available to all of us no matter who we are.

Hank Smith: 44:08 Yeah. I remember President Oaks said something like, “When a sister missionary is set apart by her stake president and she’s going out and serving as missionary, she has the power of the priesthood.” And then he said something like, “What other power is there if she doesn’t have the power of the priesthood?” Do you remember that?

John Bytheway: 44:26 Yeah. She’s given priesthood authority to do a priesthood assignment. Love that sentence. What other authority would it be? It’s the power of God to do the work of God. That was April of 2014.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 44:39 I think sometimes, people are set apart for specific roles to run the church, whether it be holding the priesthood, but that power is in order to bless all of us and to make a community where we can function with one another and lift one another up and become better. Just because somebody has a specific role doesn’t mean it’s more important or less important than somebody else’s role.

Hank Smith: 45:03 Yeah. I remember being taught by my friend Barbara Morgan Gardner, I call her by her full name whenever I talk about it. She said, “If you’ve got a man and a woman who both are set apart to teach a Sunday school class, the man does not preside in that class. They both preside in that class equally.”

Dr. Shalise Adams: 45:25 This is something that I heard in Emily Freeman’s Inklings Podcast, but it also is very similar to what she said in this last conference. She said, “We access the power of the Aaronic Priesthood through the ordinances of the sacrament.” It’s more than deacons and teachers in the sacrament. It’s the power to overcome everything that happens in mortality through the gospel of repentance, which allows us to have second chances, which allows us to overcome sin and temptation, which allows us through the ordinance and keeping our covenant to have an increase of the Holy Ghost, which helps us navigate life and increase our capacity to accomplish his work and give us strength. The ordinance unlocks ministering of angels. We say Aaronic Priesthood, and our first thought should be the gospel of repentance, the ministering of angels, the increase of the Holy Ghost. But our first thought usually is bless, pass, and prepare the sacrament, deacon, teacher and priest. We go to the office instead of the ordinance that it unlocks.

Hank Smith: 46:24 Wow. That is beautiful. Yeah. John, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the direction in the church is when perhaps a member of the bishopric is standing up after the sacrament, it would be an error. Not a terrible sin, but it would be an error to say, we’d like to thank the Aaronic Priesthood for the reverent way they passed the sacrament. The Aaronic Priesthood is not a person.

John Bytheway: 46:50 Yeah, the power is in the sacrament. I love the way that President Freeman said that. That was beautiful.

Hank Smith: 46:57 I have a friend who’s in a bishopric. He said he was directed by his area authority to really not say anything after the sacrament at all. I stand up. Those young men know that’s when they go back to their seats. We pick up right there. I like that we’re not distracting from the sacrament by saying something like, we’d like to thank the Aaronic Priesthood and I don’t want anybody to go, oh, I’ve been doing it all wrong. No, I just think maybe a small correction.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 47:27 I have loved this study of the sacrament. I feel like I’ve learned a lot of things. But I think the Savior comes and the sacrament is part of what he teaches those people, but for Moroni to include it here, I suspect it needed a little bit more clarity or he wanted us to get it exactly right. In verse 1 of chapter 4, it says, “The manner of the elders and the priest administering the flesh and blood of Christ unto the church and they administered it according to the commandments of Christ. Wherefore, we know the manner to be true.” I love that it’s the commandment of Christ. We’re doing exactly how he told us and that we know this manner to be true. What I love about this is it’s the same for everyone here. It’s the same across time. We are sharing the same auditory experience with those across the world, but also those across time, hundreds of years before us. And I think that’s beautiful.

Hank Smith: 48:25 Me too. I hadn’t thought about that.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 48:27 I’m going to read from John’s book where he quotes something that he learned from Brother Gary Poll. He said, “If Heavenly father had a favorite scripture, he might arrange it so that his people would hear it often and so that the person uttering the scripture might be kneeling so that all listening would have their eyes closed.” That’s such a beautiful thought. As we ponder what might be the very most important to the Lord, we might ponder the thing that he asks us to repeat the most. We’re baptized only one time, but we are asked to recommit weekly.

Hank Smith: 49:00 That’s fantastic. This is a good chance this week to really study these prayers line by line.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 49:09 Let’s do it. I think it’s important for us to address what our baptismal covenants actually are. I think that because when we’re baptized, we don’t actually say, this is what you commit to. We find them in Mosiah 18, but also in Doctrine and Covenants section 20, “We are desirous to come into the fold of God and to be called his people. We’re willing to bear one another’s burdens. We’re willing to mourn with those that mourn, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort and to stand as a witness of God at all times and in all places.” Those are the things that we covenant. The promise is that you will serve him and keep his commandments, that he will pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you. I think it’s significant that the qualifications for baptism are all spiritual and there’s no economic status there. It doesn’t matter if you’re old or young or rich or poor or you’ve been a member for your whole life or you’re brand new to the church. No one has an advantage when it comes to being blessed by the Savior or coming to feel his love.

Hank Smith: 50:14 Elder Renlund recently spoke at BYU and made an interesting clarification. I had never thought about. Elder Renlund described the baptismal covenant as a public witness to Heavenly father of three specific commitments. To serve God, to keep his commandments and to be willing to take on the name of Jesus Christ. The other facets that are frequently associated with that covenant, bear one another’s burdens, mourn with those who mourn, comfort those that stand in need of comfort are fruits of making the covenant rather than part of the actual covenant. He said these facets are very important because that is what a converted soul would naturally do. I like the clarification there.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 50:55 Yeah, I love it when he talks about we witness, like we’re witnessing to not you or who’s sitting next to me, it’s to God. He already actually knows everything about us. He knows where we fall short. He knows the good and the bad. Really, when we’re witnessing to him, we’re saying, I want to be better. I want to try again, almost like a form of repentance or a prayer to him for help.

Hank Smith: 51:20 A close reading of this can really bring out words you’ve never thought of. I’m just looking at the word witness and maybe that’s not a word I’ve focused on before. John, I love it when you say we’re willing to do things.

John Bytheway: 51:35 We can be willing, but the scriptures don’t call us able. They call God able. I am able to do my work, but for us, sometimes the best we can do is be willing because we falter how cool it is that it’s incredible symbol of the Savior’s mercy and patience that we do the sacrament every week. As you said, Shalise, it’s repeated. Oh, you’re done. No, you’re going to need this again next week. Come back every week and let’s do this. Continue this covenant relationship again, if you’re willing.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 52:11 Don’t you think the word willing has a lot of potential for power? I’m willing to change. I’m willing to trust. I’m willing to address the things about me that are not perfect. I’m willing to reach out and try again. That signifies that we want something different for our lives. We want to become more than we are.

Hank Smith: 52:31 I just love this close reading that we’re doing. Anything else that I should see here, Shalise?

Dr. Shalise Adams: 52:36 I love the next phrase just as much. Always remember him. President Nelson talks about the word always. He says, renewing our covenants during the sacrament each Sunday is a great opportunity to examine ourselves and refocus our lives on Jesus Christ. By partaking of the sacrament, we declare, we do always remember him. The word always is significant because it extends the Savior’s influence into every part of our lives. We don’t remember him only at church or only during our morning prayers or only when we’re in trouble. Always, I think is a beautiful word, but remember as well, what do you do when you remember somebody that’s passed? We put up pictures. We talk about him. We do things that they liked to do so that we can remember. Are we doing that in our lives with the Savior? Are we talking about him outside of that sacrament service? Are we looking at pictures? Are we having things up in our home that remind us of him? That’s an important thing that we are committing to do.

Hank Smith: 53:39 I’ve never actually thought about that. I feel bad. I’ve thought about remembering him in my mind, but you’re right. If I’m going to remember my parents who have both passed away, it’s more than just thinking about them. It’s telling stories about them. It’s having a picture up like you said. Wow, Shalise, thank you.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 53:53 But I think it also means recalling the goodness, like with your parents, the good things that they taught you. With our Savior, recalling the mercy that we feel every week or where he’s shown up every day. Remembering also means thinking about how different my life would be if he wasn’t there.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 54:13 So the promise. I love the promise that we may have his spirit to be with us. And how often do we take that for granted? I want to read one more John Bytheway, quote, if that’s okay. Here we go.

Hank Smith: 54:24 Wow, John, you’re a hit today.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 54:27 John says this, “Many of us unwittingly hear the sacramental prayer and give it no heed. Maybe it’s so familiar to us that we take it for granted. What does it really mean to always have his spirit to be with us? I can think of no greater light to guide us in this darkened and darkening world than the light of the world himself, the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. In this manner, we have a member of the Godhead to go before us as if it were enlightening, guiding, protecting, and comforting us. It may be only one gift, but its blessings are innumerable.” I love it.

Hank Smith: 55:02 Me too. We talked about earlier how the Holy Ghost can be a vehicle to bring the Atonement into my heart and mind. I wonder if I could replace that sentence with that idea that they may always have the power of the atonement of Jesus Christ always, right, in their life.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 55:22 I love it. I had an experience a few months ago where I was visiting my parents at home and my mom said, “We should take grandma to church.” Now, grandma is in a memory care unit. In my head, I thought, why are we taking grandma to church? She’s not going to remember. She’s not going to care. Why are we doing this? Because it’s a lot of work actually. I had a pretty rotten attitude about the event, but my mom’s a better person than me, and so we went and we took grandma to church. As we sat there and I watched person after person come in that was physically broken with frailties and things that would not be healed in this life, I was reminded how important it is for us to come to heal our souls. How important it is for us to all be healed as only the Savior can do with our spirits and our hearts, even though our bodies may not function the way we wish them to. And I was really touched at the opportunity. I felt like I was maybe the most broken there because I had forgotten.

Hank Smith: 56:24 It’s almost like if you could see the spirits of the people coming in, you would see this hospital of people with different injuries.

Dr. Shalise Adams: 56:33 We’re all broken. Many people in that meeting, they could not take the sacrament to themselves. They had to have somebody actually lift that bread and that water to their lips. That was a beautiful thing to me to watch this meeting. I had no idea that it would change my life. Harold B. Lee said this. He said, “The greatest miracle I see today is not necessarily the healing of sick bodies, but the healing of sick souls.” And that’s what I felt like I saw there.

  57:12 In conclusion with the sacrament, I feel like we go out into the world every day and we are told, we’re not good enough or we’re not this or we’re not that, and each week we have the opportunity to come back and really re-center ourselves and who we are actually as children of God, that we can remember Jesus Christ and that we’re willing to do that and to change. We don’t take the sacrament because we were perfect the week before, we take the sacrament because we weren’t. It’s so much more about who I want to be and less about who I am. It’s about who I want to become.

John Bytheway: 57:47 I think it’s helpful not to think of a covenant as a contract. Well, I’m going to do this and then I get this, but as a relationship. Then I have access to the Savior’s power and his patience and his mercy. That’s why this is an ongoing continuing thing because it’s a relationship and that makes it so much more powerful that we’re invited to come back. It’s kind of like he’s inviting us back to the last supper again. As you know, to sit with somebody, to eat with somebody, I mean, how many times was Jesus accused of, Hey, this guy’s eating with publicans and sinners. Well, here’s Jesus saying, “Come and eat with me because I’m accepting you. Come and eat with me at this table. We’re going to continue this covenant relationship.”

Hank Smith: 58:29 John, I’ve never thought about that. When I see Jesus in the New Testament eating with publicans and sinners, I might go, Hey, he does that with me too. I would fit in that category.

John Bytheway: 58:41 That’s right.