Hank Smith: 00:00:04 Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of followHIM. My name’s Hank Smith. I’m your host. I’m here with my stripped of pride co-host, John Bytheway, and our guest, Dr. Frantz Belot. John, Alma 5, 6, and 7. I know you love the Book of Mormon. What are you looking forward to today?

John Bytheway: 00:00:22 Everything is in there that you might need. How do you talk to people who have never heard of Jesus? Oh, go follow the Sons of Mosiah. How do you talk to people who are in the church but kind of need a boost? Need a reminder? Oh, Alma 5. Well, how do you talk to people who are in the church but are doing pretty good? Oh, Alma 7. It’s all in there and I love that.

Hank Smith: 00:00:42 Yeah, Alma hits his reactivation tour. Like I said, we have Dr. Frantz Belot with us. Dr. Belot, Frantz, what are we looking forward to today as we go through these three chapters?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:00:55 Well, for me it’s very similar to what John said. I don’t know about you all, but sometimes I do need to check myself and to just make sure that I’m on the path, and chapter five is always a good place to go to just read some of those verses. I do love chapter seven. I mean, chapter seven has done more for me, especially in the last little while than any other chapters in the Book of Mormon at this moment in my life to recognize the role of the Savior and what he’s done for me. So I look forward to just exploring this today.

Hank Smith: 00:01:30 Perfect. I’m excited as well. I’ve heard Alma 5 is called “the midterm before the final”. If you can answer these questions, you’re pretty well… yeah, you’re on your way. John, Dr. Belot hasn’t been with us for I think two years, three years. We need to introduce him to some of our guests.

John Bytheway: 00:01:50 Yeah, I remember, I think we did Section 115 about the Lord naming the church. Dr. Frantz Belot is the co-founder of two educational software companies. He’s a native of Haiti, raised in Montreal, Quebec. I listened very closely to how he said it, so I wouldn’t say “Quebec”, so I said Quebec like he said it.

Hank Smith: 00:02:11 Okay.

John Bytheway: 00:02:12 He has his PhD from BYU in educational leadership and foundations. He has an entrepreneurial spirit which permeates all aspects of his life. He’s passionate about helping people access education and training so they can positively impact their lives and their businesses and their communities. Frantz and his wife Brandy are the joyful parents of five sons. That sounds intense and wonderful. Dr. Belot, you’ve just been called to something kind of exciting we’ve been talking about. Would you love to tell everybody about that?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:02:44 You bet. My wife and I, we were called to be mission leaders in the Orlando, Florida mission of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We’re elated at the opportunity to work with missionaries and to be involved in the work of the Lord, so this is going to be fun.

Hank Smith: 00:03:03 Fantastic.

John Bytheway: 00:03:04 And Dr. Belot, how many languages do you speak?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:03:07 Some people say that I speak English, and Haitian Creole as well as French. I’m trying to learn a little bit of Spanish. I love communicating with people, and when I cannot understand what they’re saying, it’s really hard for me.

Hank Smith: 00:03:25 The missionaries in Orlando are going to be very blessed to have the Belots as mission leaders. John, I have to tell you a quick story that I’ve always remembered from Frantz. He was serving as bishop in Mapleton. He had long hours as Bishop, as most bishops do. He came home one night, pulled into his driveway, was really tired. It was a long day. And he said, “I’m going to close my eyes here for a second, rest my eyes just for a second.” And he rested his eyes and the next thing he knew, it was the middle of the night. His wife was pounding on the window saying, ” What are you doing out here?” And I have always remembered, that’s the life of a bishop. And then he said something that I have used ever since he told me that story. He said, “I get tired in the Lord’s work, but I never get tired of the Lord’s work.” And I always remembered it. Watch out for resting your eyes when you get to Orlando.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:04:24 We don’t want to do that, right?

Hank Smith: 00:04:26 Yeah, get inside the house before you rest your eyes. Yeah, get inside. All right. Let me read a little bit from the Come, Follow Me manual and then let’s jump in. The title of this week’s lesson is, “Have You Experienced This Mighty Change in Your Hearts?” And here’s the opening paragraph.

  00:04:44 “Alma did not know about today’s lifesaving heart transplant surgeries which replace a damaged or diseased heart with a healthy one, but he knew about a more miraculous change of heart, one in which the Savior gives us a newness of spiritual life like being born again. Alma could see that this change of heart was exactly what many of the Nephites needed. Some were rich, others poor. Some prideful, others humble, some persecutors and others afflicted by persecution. But all of them needed to come unto Jesus Christ to be healed, just as we all do. Whether we are seeking to overcome pride or to endure afflictions, Alma’s message is the same. Come and fear not. Let the Savior change a hardened, sinful or wounded heart into one that is humble, pure, and new.”

  00:05:31 That’s fantastic. Frantz, where do you want to go from here? How do you want to start?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:05:36 When I was reading chapter five, six, and seven, I thought about the change of heart and the process by which we change our hearts, and I remember an experience that I had while I was a bishop, actually. Interestingly, I refer a lot to my days as a bishop because I learned so much in my life during those days. But I remember that I came to a point where I was asking myself, “Am I becoming better as a person, as an individual? Am I giving what I need to to my brothers and sisters in the ward?” I felt almost that I wasn’t where I needed to be and I needed to have a greater change of heart. To be totally honest, I felt that. I felt that I could become a much better individual. As in all things, you go into the scriptures and I remember you read, for instance, Alma 5.

  00:06:32 You ask some questions and you’re like, “Where am I there?” While I was doing this, I heard the following, and I wanted to share that with you all. I heard the following from President Nelson. He says, “Drawing the power of Jesus Christ into our lives,” he says, “Earlier this year, I asked the young adults of the church to consecrate a portion of their time each week to study everything Jesus said and did as recorded in the standard works. I invited them to let the scriptural citations about Jesus Christ and the topical guide become their personal core curriculum. I gave that challenge because I had already accepted it myself. I read and underlined every verse cited about Jesus Christ as listed under the main heading and the 57 subtitles in the topical guide. When I finished that exciting exercise, my wife asked me what impact it had on me.

  00:07:28 I told her I am a different man. I felt a renewed devotion to him as I read again the Book of Mormon, the Savior’s own statement about his mission and mortality.” I went and did the exact exercise. It took me about eight months to do that because of the time constraints that I had. I remember spending time in Alma 5. I remember spending time in Alma 7 as well, and other obviously scriptures. I have to say that it was as if I had learned again who the Savior, Jesus Christ was. I started making those little changes that I felt was helping me become a better disciple of our Savior. When I consider what we’re about to talk about, the change of heart, to me, it delves into getting to know the Savior a lot more so that we can pray and try to emulate his wonderful attributes.

Hank Smith: 00:08:34 Fantastic. I get a little worried when I hit Alma 5 to teach it that someone might come away feeling guilty. Like, “Ugh, there’s so much I’m not doing.” Well, I hope today as we look at this, everyone listening can think, not necessarily, “What do I need to do better?” But, “How can I allow the Savior more into my life?” How can I allow the Spirit more into my life so I can be changed?” Because we don’t want anyone to walk away from this going, “Oh man, I am the worst. I’m never going to make it.” John, how do you approach Alma 5?

John Bytheway: 00:09:13 Well, I heard the same thing years ago as a student that it was like a midterm, and that it had something like 50 questions in it. Well, I went through and I numbered. So if you ever get to a question, ask me. I’ll tell you which question mark number it is. I found 42 question marks, but sometimes there’s two or three questions and the question mark comes at the end. But one of the things I thought was so interesting about this talk is there’s content in it, but he’s asking all of us to introspect. As Frantz just pointed out, these questions are pointing us to the Savior who is long-suffering and patient, and hopefully we get that sense. Yeah, we might need a reminder. We might need to go through our checklist, but we have a Savior who’s patient and merciful. I see that throughout this. That helps me.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:10:06 Particularly in verse 12 of Alma 5, for me, 12, 13 and 14, I learned that we cannot willpower ourselves into a change of heart. To your point, Hank, sometimes we read this and then we say, “Well, I need to do better. I need to measure up. I need to do all of those things.” But while it’s okay to realize that, we can’t really willpower ourselves and make that change of heart. That’s not possible. It’s like a futile exercise. And I hope that people will not misunderstand me here. The change of heart occurs because the Savior, through the power of the Holy Spirit, is able to make that happen.

  00:10:53 For instance, in verse 12 in chapter five of Alma, Alma says, “And according to his faith, there was a mighty change wrought in his heart.” The change took because the faith that the individuals had in the Savior, Jesus Christ. And then he talks about in verse 13 and 14, verse 14, he says, “And now behold, I ask you, my brethren of the church, have you spiritually been born of God?” That rebirth takes place because of the Savior. It’s not something that we can willpower or push through. I’m going to change my heart. This is the standard, I’m going to meet that standard. It’s enabling or inviting the Lord into our lives and saying, “I need help,” and experience that rebirth.

John Bytheway: 00:11:44 My highlight on verse seven, I have the word “He” circled and underlined. “Behold, he changed their hearts.” It doesn’t say, “Behold, I changed my heart.” He changed their heart. He awakened them out of a deep sleep. Dr. John Lund is a marriage and family expert. He said something that I put in my notes here. He said, “Criticism doesn’t change people.”

  00:12:13 He says, “The Holy Ghost changes people. People either change themselves, they choose to change, or they’re changed by the Holy Ghost.” And I never forgot that idea. And that’s why I put next to verse seven, “He changed their hearts.” I have to ask the Lord, “Please change my heart.” Because like you just said, I can’t will that the way I’d like to, but I can ask the Lord, “You have the power to do this. Will you change my heart, help me lose desire for sin?” And that thought has always impressed me. That what you just said, it’s carefully noted in the chapter, is that God is the one who changes hearts.

Hank Smith: 00:12:52 That’s really good, John. And Frantz, man, I really like that. That as we go through this chapter, it’s not about you willpower-ing, white knuckling through this. It’s that the Lord can make you who you want to be. Let down your guard and open yourself up to his power. Wow. I’m writing all that you’ve said, both of you, here in the margin. Do we want to go verse by verse? Do we want to go question by question?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:13:22 There’s so much. Verse by verse, we probably would be here for a century, maybe. I’m just kidding.

Hank Smith: 00:13:29 And you have to get to Orlando eventually, right now.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:13:33 Exactly, exactly. There’s a section in Alma 5:14-33. This section again, and the Come, Follow Me says, “I must experience and continue to feel a mighty change of heart.” And that quote from President Ballard, if I can, I’d like to share it, a quote. He said, “I need to regularly take time to ask myself, ‘How am I doing?’ As a guide for me during this private personal review, I like to read and ponder the introspective words found in the fifth chapter of Alma.” And then it says here, “Alma 5:14-33,” and maybe it would be worth our time to read some of those verses as if you were interviewing yourself and examining your heart. In verse 11, if I can start here, Alma is teaching the people of Zarahemla. The people of Zarahemla were not in a good spot. We have to understand that context.

  00:14:31 Somehow they have left the way. We find that because of some of the things that Alma was saying. They were mocking their brothers and sisters. They were prideful, thinking that the way that they were living would be acceptable to the Savior. And then you can say this just by the type of questions Alma is asking, and I’ll point that out in a few minutes. They were not in a good spot. Alma brings them back to the past. At times, I know that we don’t dwell in the past, but the past is very much instructive. In verse 11, it says, “Behold, I can tell you,” he brings them back to how Alma’s father became converted. He says, “Behold, I can tell you, did not my father Alma believe in the words which were delivered by the mouth of Abinadi, and was he not a holy prophet? Did he not speak the words of God, and my father, Alma, believe them?”

  00:15:24 And verse 12, “And according to his faith, there was a mighty change wrought in his heart,” because obviously of the words that Abinadi has spoken. And because Alma the Elder went to the Father and received the testimony. And then Alma, in verse 12, the younger says, “Behold I say unto you that this is all true.” He takes him to the past and he says, “Look at what happened to my father.” The reason he’s saying this is because I’m assuming that many of these people that he’s talking to knew of Alma the Elder. He’s bringing them back to a remembrance of what took place.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:16:00 And then from that, he starts reminding them or asking them some questions that are very introspective to help them make some changes. I don’t know what thoughts you have about this on teaching from the past, but bringing them to the present so that they can move forward and asking some really good questions that can help them in their journey.

Hank Smith: 00:16:21 The first thing I thought of, Frantz, when you talked about this for me is the pioneers. When I think of all they went through, when I think of my own great-great-grandfather who comes from Denmark, spends all that he has to get to the Salt Lake Valley and then gets assigned down to Ephraim, Utah and lives in basically a dugout, a cave, pondering that for a couple of minutes, retaining, what does he say, a remembrance of your fathers. It humbles you and you think, “You know what? I want to live up to what they gave, what they sacrificed for.”

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:17:02 I have to say that prior to changing for me, a lot of times I think about my mother. I think about coming from Haiti and watching a single woman with children, going and making and doing everything that she can to provide a better life for us. I think about her on her knees and I saw that multiple times. I wasn’t a member then, she wasn’t, but I remember seeing her on her knees talking to our father in heaven asking for help. I can never forget that. Never, never forget it. When sometimes I’m about to change those thoughts, it’s like a catalyst to open my heart so that I can listen. In verse 13, that’s why I brought back that Alma, it was necessary for him to remind them of what to place to his father. Halfway to verse 13, he says his father preached the gospel and then after this says, “They, the people, they humble themselves and put their trust in the true and living God and behold, they were faithful until the end. Therefore, they were saved.”

  00:18:29 Then in verse 14, “And now behold, I ask of you, my brethren, I’ve already told you what’s happened to Alma, my father, and when he was teaching the people how they humbled themselves because they remember the source of their blessings.” Then he says, “I ask of you, my brethren of the church, have ye spiritually been born of God, have ye received His image in your countenances? Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts?” It was the beginning, I think to help them become humble so that they can open up their hearts to start asking those questions that are so helpful for the soul.

John Bytheway: 00:19:10 It’s an interesting question. Is being baptized the same thing as being born again? And this verse helps me see something because, “Now behold, I ask of you, my brethren of the church,” which tells us they have been baptized, “have you spiritually been born of God?” Is it possible to be baptized and not be born again? It sounds like it. Elder Bednar taught once that baptism is the beginning of the process of being born again, and that’s one of the things I love about this chapter. He’s talking to members of the church. This whole chapter is asking, “How are you doing? How is that process going?” This isn’t the beginning of, “Pack your bags, we’re going on a guilt trip.” I think when the spirit of the Lord is present, these people hopefully are going, “That’s a good question.” As you said a minute ago, Frantz, “Am I making progress? I’m in the church, but am I making progress? Is my trend line going down or up?”

  00:20:11 And sometimes it’s so wonderful to have a leader to be able to ask that question and if you’re open enough you can say, “I need to think about that for a minute.” That’s why I love this chapter.

Hank Smith: 00:20:23 I think so too. Our hearts are constantly changing. They’re going in one direction or the other. You can’t really say, “Oh, I experienced this mighty change of heart and I’m done. I’ve arrived.”

John Bytheway: 00:20:34 That’s another thing I wanted to say is that a mighty change of heart does not mean an instant change of heart. Bruce R. McConkie said, “Some of these stories are so remarkable, they get written up in the scriptures.”

  00:20:48 They’re remarkable, not typical. Hank and Frantz, have you ever known a young person come back from a mission and say something like, “I’m not sure if I grew enough,” and you’re looking at them going, “Are you kidding?” You see it, but they don’t because it was gradual.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:21:04 Yes. Another thing to me, if I jump to verse 15, because that… I used to think that those questions were really challenging and they are challenging, but there’s so much hope in those questions. Can I tell you that? For instance, in verse 15, I could see in my mind a smile almost, right after the first sentence it says, the second one says, “To look forward with an eye of faith and view this mortal body raised in immortality?” Think of this. It’s a wonderful question. He’s trying to help us, trying to help the brethren and sisters of the church to look for a bright future. He’s asking, “Can you imagine yourself being raised into immortality?”, and I remember when I was reading this, I’m like, “Yeah, I’m going to have some hair. My back hopefully is not going to hurt me anymore.” I’m like, “I can imagine that,” and then he takes us into some of the questions that can help us accomplish or be comfortable not only in this life but also as we move forward into our next estate, but that tickled me.

  00:22:16 I’m like, “Yeah, I can see that, I can see…” And then he says, “And this corruption raised in incorruption to stand before God.” And to be judged according to the deeds which have been done in the mortal body, we have the choice to make those deeds really good with the help of the Lord, and then we have the choice to make changes in our hearts so that if we’re not doing something that’s right, we can still make a few changes and ask the Lord for help and then all of a sudden find ourself in front of the Lord and say, “I’ve done my best with what I had.” Anyway, I think it’s very hopeful. I never thought about this, but that one question in verse 15 was like, “I was just smiling the other day when I was reading this.”

Hank Smith: 00:23:00 As I get older, it’s odd, John and Frantz, to be the same age as old people, but you start to really look forward to, “Oh man, I’m really going to be grateful when this knee doesn’t hurt anymore.” My mom passed away a couple of months ago, and John, you know this right before she passed away, she said, “Oh, I hope your dad’s young. He was so good-looking when he was young.” I think you’re absolutely right. But then he says, “Okay, you’re going to have this incorruptible body now. You’re going to stand before God.” Let’s talk about that now.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:23:41 Yes, exactly. And in verse 16, if you notice the questions are becoming a little bit more poignant. I say unto you, can you imagine to yourselves that you hear the voice of the Lord saying unto you in that day, “Come unto me, ye blessed, for behold, your works have been the works of righteousness upon the face of the earth?” To me, here’s where the change begins in a lot of ways. First of all, in that verse he says, “Imagine that the Lord will say, ‘Come unto me.'” I mean, what beautiful invitation is that? “Come unto me.” Well, how do I do that? It says it here works of righteousness. And then if you’re really doing an introspection, well, you may say, ” I wasn’t too nice with my son today. I need to make a few adjustments because I’d like to not only love my son more, but at the same time I want to be right before God.” You start making some of those changes when you read some of those questions.

Hank Smith: 00:24:44 The Lord is not saying do more because a lot of our listeners, you’re doing a lot. You’re doing very righteous, wonderful things. I don’t think the Lord is saying, “Hey, those of you who are doing righteous things, do more righteous things.” I think He’s saying, “Look, if you have works of unrighteousness, those things can be changed.” I think of a mom who’s listening, going, “You guys, I can’t do more. My schedule is full.” I don’t think this is for you, but those of us, there’s only one of the three of us here. You guys can decide who it is who still has some unrighteous works going on. That’s what needs to change, right?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:25:28 Yeah. We go again in verse 17, and I love the fact that it’s the same thing as verse 16. There’s the word again. Imagine. Do you imagine? Use your imagination. What’s happened to me is that I could see a better self when I was reading this. That’s the invitation is: imagine coming unto Christ, imagine doing works of righteousness, and then he says, “Well, can you also imagine yourself that you can lie unto the Lord in that day and say, ‘Lord, our works have been righteous works upon the face of the earth’ and that He will save you?” Obviously the answer is no, and then in verse 18 “Or otherwise, can ye imagine yourself brought before the tribunal of God with your souls filled with guilt and remorse, having a remembrance of all your guilt, your perfect remembrance of all your wickedness, a remembrance that ye have set at defiance, the commandments of God?”

  00:26:26 Again, so those are reminders of things that we should not do, but if we go back to verse 16, when Alma started this, he really said, Imagine yourself coming unto Christ, Him saying, Ye blessed because of the work of righteousness. Let’s focus on that. I think sometimes to your point, Hank, we read verse 17, 18, and then we start feeling guilty, but did you read verse 16? Why not focus on that and the little works of righteousness and then come unto God and hearing that He says blessed are ye.

John Bytheway: 00:27:03 Alma is asking us if we can imagine it, and he has already been there. When he tells his repentance story to his son, Helaman in Alma 36, he says, “The very thought of coming into the presence of my God did rack my soul with inexpressible horror.” You know the story, and then I remembered my father to have taught, so he’s saying, “Look, this happened to me and it changed me.” He tells that story later sequentially in the Book of Mormon. This happened in what? Mosiah 27, when he and the four sons of Mosiah are knocked over, and then he tells to his son, Alma 36, how he imagined coming into the presence of God and now he’s asking the people in Zarahemla, “I went through that and it racked my soul with horror, and then I remember Jesus Christ, the son of God who could forgive sins, and I cried within my soul, ‘Oh, Jesus Thou son of God, have mercy on me,'” so to me it’s like this happened to me when he says, “Imagine it.” I lived that and it changed me.

Hank Smith: 00:28:06 He’s like, “I was there. It was not pleasant. I had that moment.” Verse 18, he says, “You’re standing before God and you have a perfect remembrance of all your guilt.” I think there’s a difference here between guilt and shame. I don’t think he’s saying, “Look, you’re going to stand before God and be ashamed of yourself.” I think he’s going to say there’s a difference between shame and guilt. Guilt I think is, “Look, here’s my values and I’m not behaving with my values,” and so guilt is a good thing, it reminds me to get aligned with my values. Where shame is, “Look, I’m not living my values. I’m a terrible person. I am awful.” I like that he uses the word guilt here. Having a perfect remembrance of all your guilt because it’s almost like I’m going to show you how great you are and how your behavior is not lining up with this greatness.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:28:59 And Hank, I think that that’s a very merciful thing that you just said. The Lord always, always wants to help us. I have a testimony of this. He always, always wants to help us. Once you realize that like you said, your behavior is not well aligned, well, guess what? Once you realize and you seek for help, He always wants to help and He’s going to show us how that’s going to do.

John Bytheway: 00:29:26 Something I think was just poetry. The way he put this in verse 19, he didn’t say, “Did you repent or are you clean?” He just asks, “Can you look up?” Maybe this is something that parents who are trying to teach come, follow me with their children. I mean, where do you look when you’re embarrassed or ashamed? *

Hank Smith: 00:29:45 Down.

John Bytheway: 00:29:46 Look down. He just says, “Can you look up to God at that day?” Now, Hank, we’re going to remember our guilt and things, but if we have brought our problems to the Lord, if we’ve confessed our problems to the Lord, He knows that and we can look up. We can look at Him. We can feel comfortable in His presence. I think, “Man, that’s the goal. Can I feel comfortable in God’s presence? Can I look up?” I have my own footnote to Alma 12:14, which I think is the single most frightening verse in the Book of Mormon, where it says, “Our words, our works will condemn us, our thoughts will also condemn us and we will not dare to look up.” It uses the same phrase. We want mounts to fall upon us, but here, this is a great question. Can you imagine you’re there? Can you look up? What a great way to put it.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:30:37 I love that. That’s a brilliant thought and I think it follows in verse 21, how we can get the strength to look up. I’m skipping to verse 21, “You will know at that day that you cannot be saved for there can no man be saved except…” so even after all that we do, “there can no man be saved except his garments are washed white. Yea, his garments must be purified until they are cleansed from all stain through the blood of whom it has been spoken by our fathers who should come to redeem his people from their sins.” Alma has asked them a lot of questions and then he’s inviting them that they are also accountable to do their parts, to align themselves, to align their behaviors to the best of their abilities. They’ve been invited to look up like you said, John, and in verse 21, he reminds them that it is the Savior, the Redeemer who will redeem them and then who will help them.

  00:31:42 That’s when it clicked for me. Like I said in the beginning, that we cannot willpower ourselves to those changes. It is Christ that will cleanse us. It is Him that will wash our garments white because he is the one who will redeem us of those sins that we are committing as long as we do our parts, which is part of the repentance process. And what an exclamation point to me that he is the one that can save us.

John Bytheway: 00:32:15 I look at verse 21, “They are cleansed from all stain through the blood of him of whom it has been spoken by our father,” so Jesus’s blood is a cleanser, but verse 22, “How will you feel if you stand before the bar of God having your garment stained with blood?” Our blood is a stain. Jesus’s blood is a cleanser. When we hear the sacrament prayer in remembrance of the blood of thy son, oh, there’s that cleanser, we can come and be cleansed by his blood when our blood is a stain. Don’t you think that’s interesting how our blood is always a stain, and his blood is the cleanser?

Hank Smith: 00:32:53 I love it. There’s an interesting phrase that comes up in verse 14 and in verse 19, this is in 14, “Have you received his image in your countenances,” and then he says in verse 19, “I say unto you, can you look up having the image of God engraven upon your countenances?” I’m going to tell a story and then I’m going to ask both of you, what does it mean to have the image of God engraved on your countenance? You think of engraving something and chipping away at it until it looks the way you want it to look, I think of a sculpture or something.

  00:33:29 This is a story told by Wallace Goddard. I think it’s so typical when I read it, I thought, this is me. He said, “When I read this verse, I thought it would be nice if someone one day looked at my face and said, wow, you look different. You look the way I imagined Jesus looked. But mostly the comments were about my graying hair or ketchup on my chin. He said, I’ve never had anyone come up and say, you look like Jesus.” And then he tells this story, “Recently, a ward brother and I were drafted by our group leader to tame the raging yards of two single aging sisters in our ward. I had never met either of them but their yards needed attention.”

John Bytheway: 00:34:09 Tame the raging yards?

Hank Smith: 00:34:12 That’s what he says. He said, “We were told that the weeds and grass were knee-high in one yard and about waist-high in the other yard. That was a daunting task for the best of gas engines and the most determined volunteers.” He says, “On the appointed Saturday, we mowed the first yard and discovered unexpected hazards such as fallen branches, rotting lumber, old building materials. We persevered and completed the yard, but as we pulled up to the second yard, we faltered.” He said, “In the Southern states where we live, untended yards are famous for poisonous snakes and bedeviling insects.” He said, “We would not have been surprised to find much larger game in the tall grass, weeds, dead branches, and litter of this yard.” He said, “Since the house itself seemed to be threatening to sag to the ground, it seemed a serious matter whether it was worth the effort to cut the grass, but we said that we would, we stiffened our courage and gave it a try.”

  00:35:15 He said, “My companion knew that his mower was not equal to the tall grass, but he dove in with a weed whacker. I pushed my mower and as we struggled inch by inch through these wilds,” he said, “I tried to encourage myself with the words inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren than you have done it unto me.” He says, “But the natural man in me resisted: Jesus would never allow his yard to get like this.” He said, “Then the natural man went on the offensive: she has an able-bodied son living with her. Why doesn’t he help out in the yard? My better side instinctively knew the answer: he is painfully cautious and sadly untrained. You could help him learn new skills if you are Christian enough to do it with love.”

  00:36:04 He said, “The debate between my noble self and my natural self continued through this task. When at the completion of the work, the 30-year-old son appeared on the back deck. I rallied my gracious self to get to know him. I noted that he had surprisingly few good teeth for a man this young, he never finished high school, he told me with the open-faced innocence of a child that he spent his time playing video games, watching television and practicing magic tricks. I asked if he had ever had a chance to use his magic skills. He told me about the Taylor family that periodically invited him over to demonstrate his tricks. He concluded, I just love Sister Taylor. She’s like a big sister to me.”

  00:36:48 He said, “Those words struck me. Too often, I stand ready to be the accusing parent when God invites me to be a loving brother.” And then he said, “I returned home from this project grass-stained and sweat-soaked. When I looked in the mirror at my disheveled appearance, I saw a flicker of something changing in me. I saw the slightest hint of his image in my countenance.”

  00:37:16 Isn’t that a great story, that it’s not about people looking at you and your suit and tie and going, “That’s how I imagine Jesus looking,” it’s the disheveled appearance of serving all day where someone might say, ” That’s probably how Jesus looked.” It’s not about how great you look that you take on the Savior’s image, it might be that tired look at the end of the day where you’ve served and served and served and the Lord says, “Now you know what I feel like, what I look like.”

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:37:47 My wife has done so much to help our family be together. One of the things she’s done is that she’s introduced mostly she’s been the one to introduce traditions in our family. And one of the traditions that we have is that we take trips like most families. I’ve seen how she’s been able to arrange parts of a trip and make it so much fun, but also remember one night when she had planned the trip so well, and it was about midnight. I had been sleeping. It was about midnight in the-

John Bytheway: 00:38:29 In the car?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:38:29 The car.

John Bytheway: 00:38:30 Not in the car this time?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:38:31 Is that the theme for me, I sleep a lot?

John Bytheway: 00:38:33 Yeah.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:38:35 I promise I’m awake most of the time. I remember I woke up and she had just gotten to bed. She had prepared everything for the trip, six boys including me, and I looked at her and she was exhausted. I mean exhausted. And I thought, “My, goodness.” That reminded me of what you just said, Hank. That was the countenance to me, the image of God of some particular person, my wife in this sense then that had given so much to bring so much joy to the rest of the family that forever, and this is only one occasion, but it’s impacted me for the rest of my life. Thank you for bringing that perspective.

Hank Smith: 00:39:27 When you were telling that story, I thought of maybe the image of God is, John, you can give me the reference on this, Enoch saying, “How can you weep,” right, “You’re God.” Is that Moses…

John Bytheway: 00:39:38 Moses 7.

Hank Smith: 00:39:39 Moses 7. So, maybe it’s when a parent or a leader is weeping over the heartbreak of a child or somebody making decisions that aren’t aligned with their values and that weeping, maybe that is also the image of God that’s engravened on the countenance.

John Bytheway: 00:39:59 We don’t love our grandmas because they’re supermodels, or influencers, right? There’s something else that we see. There’s a way sometimes where we see somebody’s spirit, even like the story you just told of Wallace Goddard, an image of Christlike service comes through. It’s a good reminder to be talking about this in a world that’s so obsessed with image. There’s a spiritual beauty, what did Sister Elaine Dalton call it, a deep beauty. It was a phrase I’d never heard before: deep beauty is spiritual attractiveness, she said. It comes from virtue and charity and I can’t remember the exact quote, but I’d never forgotten that idea of a deep beauty that comes from a different place.

Hank Smith: 00:40:46 John, real quick, it reminds me of a talk given 20 years ago by Elder Holland, you’re going to like this, he said, “At some point, the problem becomes what the Book of Mormon called vain imaginations. And in secular society, both vanity and imagination run wild. One would truly need a great and spacious makeup kit to compete with beauty as portrayed in media all around us.” I like that what you said about image, John, this isn’t about how being a supermodel, I just like the idea of a weeping God or an exhausted God, and that’s the image of God.

John Bytheway: 00:41:24 And a spirit within that. I was telling my teenagers once that, “I wish I could do this. I wish I could grab my spirit and pull it out right now and I would stand it next to me,” and you’d have something to talk about at school, but if I could do that, then I would say, which one is more me? And they’d always get the answer right: the spirit is more you. Okay, the question is, why do we spend so much time worrying about something that isn’t even the real us and how that looks? What does my spirit look like?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:41:58 If I can jump in, verse 26, that’s one of the very favorite verses in chapter 5. There, Alma, says, “And now behold I say unto you, my brethren, if ye have experienced a change of heart, and if ye have felt to sing the song of redeeming love, I would ask, can you feel so now?” I’ve loved that verse because there has been sometimes where I have not felt to sing the song of redeeming love, and I remember one day I read that verse and I said,  “Right now, I can’t say that I feel that,” but with the same token, the thought came to me when I had that experience that you may not feel that, but the Lord can help you feel that way.

  00:42:45 I went back and just like anything else, you try to make some changes in your life so that you can feel a little bit better and then feel that the Lord continues to support you and that consistency. I remember in the past, whenever I would think this way, I don’t feel like I can sing that song of redeeming love that I would say to myself, “Oh, I need to repent,” and it was such an obstacle for me because I thought it was so monumental that I needed to repent. In the last few years, for obvious reasons, President Nelson has shared with us to look at repentance a little bit differently.

  00:43:28 I got a quote here from President Nelson from his address in April, 2019 at General Conference. He says, “Too many people consider repentance as punishment, something to be avoided except in the most serious circumstances, but this feeling of being penalized is engendered by Satan. He tries to block us from looking to Jesus Christ.” And I think John, you talked about that, to look up to God, “Who stands with open arms, hoping and willing to heal, forgive, cleanse, strengthen, purify, and sanctify us.” As I read that scripture to me, and when I don’t feel to sing the redeeming love, then I feel more like I have that image in my mind of the Lord’s open arms saying, “Okay, Frantz, you may be in the bad spot right now, but let’s work together. Let me help you. Let me cleanse you. Let me forgive you. You keep your covenants, you start keeping your covenants and let me do that for you, and then you will be able to sing the song of redeeming love.” And I have experienced that personally.

Hank Smith: 00:44:43 Fantastic. That is maybe the key verse for me personally is verse 26, “If you have felt it before, do you feel it now?”

John Bytheway: 00:44:54 Yeah, there was a time when you loved this so much, it made you want to sing. Do you still feel that way?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:45:01 Yes.

John Bytheway: 00:45:03 What changed? What do you need to do? I’m glad you reminded us of a General Conference talk because I feel so fired up after General Conference. I always feel like it goes too fast, and I’m so glad there’s another one coming-

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:45:17 Yeah, mm-hmm.

John Bytheway: 00:45:18 … to help me want to sing that song again.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:45:21 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 00:45:23 One of my students over at BYU, his name is Christopher Hart, it fits this verse, verse 26, this change of heart. He did a project in my class because you can choose to write a paper or do a project, and it touched me, he said, “When I was a teenager, my mom would want me to play the piano, practice the piano.” And he said, “I did and I got pretty good at it.” And then when he moves away, he goes on a mission moves away, and he said, “I stopped playing. I just stopped playing the piano, the piano that my mom really wanted me to play.”

  00:45:56 “For my Book of Mormon project,” he said, “I’m going to write a paper on verse 26 and I’m going to learn to play the piano again.” He said, “I’m going to sit back down,” and he talked about how relearning the songs, relearning the piano and how it’s so much like the gospel: all of a sudden some things, they come back to you and all of a sudden you’re like, “Oh, yeah, I do know this.: It was a beautiful project and I thought, what a great way to look at this verse, like an instrument I used to play: I used to love to play that instrument and now I’ve forgotten, and what would it be like to pick that back up?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:46:38 Yes. With the help of somebody, right? Hank, to me-

Hank Smith: 00:46:41 Yeah.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:46:41 … it’s, we’re not alone. We talked about those verses and what I’m learning more and more is that yes, the Lord invites us to improve. Yes, can look back and say, “There’s certain things I can do better,” but remember that we do have the very best to help us go through that. Even when we sin, we have the very best divine being who can cleanse us, like John said, who can take the stain away and help us. We have the very best, so we, in a way, although we may be sad about our sins and our mistakes, but we should find a way to rejoice that those questions invites us to invite Christ in our lives so that we can experience the cleansing impact, and be wanting to sing again the song of redeeming love.

John Bytheway: 00:47:38 Who would tell you, “No, you’re too far gone. You can’t learn that again. You can’t feel that again.”? That’s the accuser, not the advocate. The advocate is saying, “I’m here with open arms to receive you,” and well, I hope that’s what we’re seeing in this chapter: he’s not just giving you a spiritual checkup. He’s saying, “Come on back, because you will be welcomed with open arms.”

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:48:00 Yes. Love that, John. I love that.

Hank Smith: 00:48:03 There’s a talk attached to this week’s lesson. It’s called Preserving the Heart’s Mighty Change. It’s Elder Renlund back when he was a member of the 70 Elder Renlund says this, “In 1980, we moved as a family across the street from the hospital where I trained and worked. I worked every day, including Sundays. If I finished my Sunday work by 2:00, I could join my wife and daughter and drive to church meetings that began at 2:30. One Sunday late in my first year of training, I knew that I would likely finish by two. I realized however, that if I stayed in the hospital just a little bit longer, my wife and daughter would depart without me. I could then walk home and take a needed nap.”

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:48:42 There’s a theme. There’s a theme.

John Bytheway: 00:48:47 In the car.

Hank Smith: 00:48:48 He says, “I regret to say I did just that. I waited till 2:15, walked home, slowly laid down on the couch hoping to nap, but I couldn’t fall asleep. I was disturbed and concerned. I had loved going to church. I wondered why on this day the fire of testimony and the zeal that I had previously felt were missing.” He says, “I didn’t have to think long. Because of my schedule, I had become casual.” In his gospel living. He said, “I would get up, say my prayers and go to work. Often, day blended into night and into day before I would return home late the following evening. I would then be so tired that I would fall asleep before saying a prayer or reading scripture. The next morning, the process began again. The problem was I was not doing any of the basic things I needed to do to keep my mightily changed heart from turning into stone.” He says, “I returned back to my gospel living and of course in just a matter of weeks, the zeal returned and the fire of testimony burned fiercely again.”

John Bytheway: 00:49:57 Yeah, Hank, that’s maybe what he’s asking in verse six, have you retained in remembrance and how can we retain in remembrance that time when we sang the song? You not only remember, but then retain it. Keep remembering.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:50:12 Another section in there in the Come, Follow Me is the one that says, “I can gain my own witness of the Savior in his teaching through the Holy Ghost.” Oh, I thought that was such an important section. It’s Alma chapter 5 again, verses 44 through 51. Right after Alma talked to the people of Zarahemla and I think that he helped them to remind themselves and again, to retain a remembrance. He’s trying to help them feel that they can sing the song of redeeming love again and trying to help them remember that Christ will always be there with them as they return, as they keep their covenants and do all those good things that helps them have the Holy Spirit. And then he confirms in verses 44 through 51 that… And I think John, you said this, is like Alma knew he had gone through this. He says, “Can you imagine?” He had gone through it. Now he’s saying to them, “Hey, do you think that I made that up?”

  00:51:19 I also had to gain my testimony of this. In verse 44 he says, “For I am called to speak after this manner according to the Holy Order of God, which is in Christ Jesus. Yea, I am committed to stand and testify unto these people the things which have been spoken by our fathers concerning the things which are to come.” Then in verse 45 “Yea, and this is not all, do you not suppose that I know of these things myself? Behold, I testify unto you that I do know that these things whereof I have spoken are true, and how do you suppose that I know of their surety?” I think it took so much humility to say that. Like, look, I’m not above you. I’ve come to know this myself. And then he teaches us in the next few verses his journey in a lot of ways and how the Holy Spirit, who’s the testifier of truth or who brings to remembrance what we know to be true on how that’s helped him. I thought how wonderful that is. I just love that section.

Hank Smith: 00:52:25 What’s interesting is as he goes through this, he says, “I know, I know, I know.” In verse 45, 46, 48, he doesn’t mention the angel. He doesn’t say, “This is how I know. I know because I saw an angel.” He says, “I know. I have fasted and prayed to know of these things of myself. The Holy Ghost has manifested it to me.”

John Bytheway: 00:52:49 Others have seen angels too, but after he saw an angel, what did he do?

Hank Smith: 00:52:54 Yeah, good point.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:52:56 Well, that’s a great point, Hank and John, I’m a convert to the church. When I was learning about the church and learning about prophets and apostles, and when you read the scriptures, you see that many of the prophets and the apostles have had a physical manifestation. They’ve been able to talk to God, Moses, face-to-face and so on, and I love that what you said because I’ve come to that realization as well, Alma, here, he says in verse 46, “I say unto you that they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God.” That gave me comfort that the great testifier, the Holy Ghost, is what solidifies or stamps truth in my heart. That my journey may never be to see any angels or to see the Son of God while I’m in mortality, like millions of people that have come and gone on their journey here, but to know that the Holy Spirit can testify to me of what is true and that has more impact than any other thing, I rejoice in that, that I can have that testimony from the Holy Spirit.

John Bytheway: 00:54:15 I love what you’re saying, Frantz.

Hank Smith: 00:54:18 Frantz, I was interested in verse 50. What did the Spirit tell him? “Yea, thus saith the Spirit, repent.” I think you can know if it’s the Holy Ghost, if you’re thinking, I need to improve.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:54:33 Yes. It’s not about guilt. It’s about making changes to really experience a better life, a more abundant life that only God can give us. This is crazy, but when I joined the church, I really thought whenever I would hear repent, I would go, “Whoa.” It would really like, ah, I just felt so little when people would call me to make changes in my life. It was such a monumental thing for me. Now that I’m older, I welcome that word. When I say repent, I’m like, yes, I need to make those changes because I know what’s on the other side of repentance. I know the joy, the peace, the welcoming arms. I know the smiles. I know the friendships. I know what’s behind that. I’ll share a story. Sometimes as a father, you know that you don’t really get along with your kids. Sometimes it’s just like that, and then sometimes you say things or you do things that you deeply regret. You deeply regret.

  00:55:41 My oldest when he was about 15, or I can’t remember the exact age, for some reason, he had done something that I really, really, really disliked, and then he left the house and I literally ran after him. I grabbed him by the arm in the middle of the street. I grabbed him by the arm and I said, “You are coming with me now,” and I just grabbed him and I took him into the house. I went to his bedroom to chastise him, and he looked at me and here’s his dad. I was taller than him, no longer. He is now 6’4”, but I was taller than him. Here’s those little eyes looking at me, and I’ll never forget, he says, “Dad,” he says, “You’re a mean dad,” and just it stung me to hear my boy say that. I made a resolution to repent.

  00:56:48 It was a welcoming thing to do to not treat my kids that way. Now, when somebody says to me, Frantz, you need to change, or when I feel that by the power of the spirit that I need to repent, I’m like, yes, because I know what’s on the other side of it, a better dad, a better relationship. Smile, not grabbing your kids or doing or saying things that you deeply regret. I know what’s on the other side of it, so I’m like, yes, I want to repent, and it’s a transformation that’s come through the years. I needed to learn that lesson.

John Bytheway: 00:57:26 I have a PowerPoint slide with the word repent on it, really big, really bold, and in a red font followed by an exclamation point. I put that up and ask my class, what’s the first word that comes to your mind? And it’s always fun to hear. And then we go to the Bible Dictionary, which Hank has showed me is a treasure, and the Bible Dictionary, it starts about, it denotes a change or a turn, but then has this phrase, “A fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world.” Favorite definition of repentance is a fresh view. It’s a paradigm shift. It’s a new way to look at things. It’s not a condemning word, A fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world, and if that’s what we all lead, wow, let’s repent. A fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world.

Hank Smith: 00:58:25 John, I know you’ve probably thought of a quote because I learned it from you, but it came to my mind because you’ve repeated it so often. Elder Holland, repent is the most, I bet you can finish it, John.

John Bytheway: 00:58:37 Encouraging word in the Christian vocabulary.

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:58:41 Oh, he said that. Oh, good. I love that. I feel that way.

Hank Smith: 00:58:46 He says, “Repentance is simply the scriptural invitation for growth, improvement, progress, and renewal.” How could any of those things be foreboding or scary? Growth, improvement, progress, renewal. If you feel like that needs to happen in your life, growth and improvement, progress, renewal, you feel the Holy Ghost inviting you to repent.

John Bytheway: 00:59:09 When my dad was being introduced to the gospel at 24 years old, his testimony was so beautiful. This doesn’t sound like repent. This sounds like a fresh view. He said, “I started to learn things that I never knew existed.” He said, “The sky was more blue, the trees were more green. I felt like I was walking a few feet off the ground.” That is a fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world. Who wouldn’t want that?

Hank Smith: 00:59:39 Right. Frantz, is there anything else in chapter five you wanted to hit?

Dr. Frantz Belot: 00:59:44 Well, yeah. That verse 50 that you just mentioned, right after the invitation to repent, it tells us in a lot of ways why, “For the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand, the Son of God cometh in his glory, in his might, majesty, power and dominion,” and then he says, “Yea, my beloved brethren, I say unto you that the Spirit saith, behold, the glory of the king of all the earth and also the king of heaven shall very soon shine forth among all the children of men.” That’s on the other side of repentance, where we will receive our beloved Savior and where countenance will shine upon us and in where joy and peace and camaraderie and friendships will blossom. What an invitation really. An invitation to prepare ourselves to live in such a beautiful environment.

Hank Smith: 01:00:43 I can tell I’m feeling the Holy Ghost because I’m thinking of ways that I can improve.