John Bytheway: 00:01 Welcome to part two with Dr. Kerry Muhlestein, 2 Nephi 31-33.

Hank Smith: 00:07 All right, Kerry, what are we going to do next?

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 00:09 The rest of this chapter we can just summarize, just Nephi is going to emphasize if this is going to work, you have to pray. And again, this is a thing we’ve seen so often, whoever will ask God, whoever seeks from God, we’ve seen that all throughout the small plates. But he’s telling us you’ve got to pray and that’s part of the process of having the Spirit with you. And he’s also very clear this dichotomy that he keeps doing, but if you won’t ask then you’re going to have trouble. You get that in verse seven. “I’m left to mourn, because of the unbelief, and the wickedness, and the ignorance and the stiffneckedness of men for they will not search knowledge, nor understand great knowledge, when it is given unto them in plainness.” And then he tells us that the Spirit teaches us to pray and the evil spirit teaches us not to pray. That importance of prayer is something that he’s mentioned it before during the doctrine of Christ part, so I think he’s just emphasizing it again here. You remember he said that when Christ came again, he might tell us more. So what if we turn to when Christ did come again and what Christ says about the doctrine of Christ when he comes to the Nephites in 3 Nephi chapter 11?

Hank Smith: 01:08 All right, let’s go. 3 Nephi 11. Give us some background here, Kerry, for those of us who don’t know the book as well as you.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 01:15 3 Nephi 11, this is when, after his resurrection, the Savior has appeared to the Nephites. They’ve gathered together at the temple and then they hear a voice and then he comes down. And when you get to this in the podcast, you should know I listen to your podcast every week, I love your podcast, so I am looking already, I’m looking forward to whoever is doing this with you, because this is one of the most powerful parts of the Book of Mormon. We’re not going to steal from that much here and besides no one will remember what we’ve said by the time you get there, but this is a fantastic, fantastic chapter where Christ descends and teaches the Nephites and we get the first things that he says.

  01:52 And among those things, he tells us what is specifically not his doctrine and then he’ll tell us what his doctrine is. And I think that contrast is going to be important. In 3 Nephi 11, they’ve come, he’s told them who he is and by the way, and this is before we get an inclusio, so he is not saying specifically this is the doctrine of Christ, but he does tell them verse 11, “And behold, I am the light and life of the world and I have drunk out of that bitter cup, which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning.” So that idea, the unity and having his will swallowed up.

  02:32 And then he starts to teach them about baptism, no surprise. And he tells them how they should baptize and this brings up something that he wants to clear up. Verse 28, “And according as I have commanded you thus shall ye baptize. And there shall be no disputations among you as there have hitherto been, neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine.” This is where he’s going to launch into saying, “This is my doctrine.” “As there have hitherto been. For verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another. But this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another.”

  03:15 It’s emphasizing this unity element again by saying, “All this stuff that’s not unity, that’s not my doctrine,” and that’s what launches him into this. So, verse 30, partway through, “but this is my doctrine.” So here we get the inclusio and if we should miss it, he’s going to say it twice, “that such things should be done away.” You have to have unity, no contention. “But behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will declare unto you my doctrine and this is my doctrine.” I don’t know how you can get more clear that this is an inclusio, “I’m about to talk about my doctrine,” but notice how he starts out this time. “It is the doctrine which the Father hath given me and I bear record of the Father and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father in me and I bear record…” Now we’re going to move to the next part. Do you see how he leads with it this time? How important it is this unity of the Godhead and them bearing record with each other.

  04:10 And then he says, “and I bear record that the father commandeth all men everywhere to repent and believe in me.” So now we get to the faith and repentance part, once we’ve covered the unity. “And whoso believeth in me and is baptized,” there we’ve got that part, “the same shall be saved, and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God. And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned. Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my doctrine.” That would seem to be a closing inclusio, but he’s got a second closing inclusio in verse 39, so I guess this is just an emphasis in the middle. “And I bear record of it from the Father…” Here we get this again, unity and bearing record, “and whoso believeth in me, believeth in the Father and unto Him will the Father bear record of me for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me, for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.” That unity is so emphasized in this 3 Nephi 11 version, plus in this case the Holy Ghost role that’s emphasized is his role of testifying of the Father and Son.

  05:17 The Holy Ghost is still crucial, but this time it’s not the Holy Ghost, you need the Holy Ghost, because he will show you everything you need to do. Now that’s not to take away from that, that’s still true, but this time we’re emphasizing something else. The Holy Ghost bears record of the Father and Son. If you want to take charge of your testimony, you need to have the Holy Ghost with you, so it can bear record of the Father and the Son. We want to have a testimony of all sorts of things, of the restoration of the gospel, of the Book of Mormon and everything else, but primary foremost among all things, if you need a testimony of anything, it is that the Father lives, loves us and sent his son to save us. That’s what this is emphasizing.

  05:55 And then he launches back into, “And again I say unto you, ye must repent, be baptized, repent, and become as a little child.” And I think that’s part of that submitting your will part. That’s King Benjamin when he talked about being like children, it’s to submit to your father, “be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things.” And in case we miss it, he says the exact same thing again. And then verse 39, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against him. And anyone who declares more or less than this,” which is the same thing that Nephi really said, “and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil.”

  06:33 Now that’s part of why this is so important to me to teach this, because we don’t want to declare more as His doctrine, but we don’t want to declare less. So we need to see what is he saying as his doctrine and I hope we’re getting some of these other things. This one didn’t really so much talk about prayer like the other ones will, but this one is a shorter version, but it still had all of this in it and we’re jumping around a little bit, I know, but let’s go to the next time and it’s in 3 Nephi 27. And this time he calls it the Gospel of Christ, but we’ll see it’s the same thing.

Hank Smith: 07:03 So, Kerry, in your mind, 2 Nephi 31 and 32, 3 Nephi 11, 3 Nephi 27 are all sister chapters, would you say?

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 07:12 That’s exactly right. Yeah. There are three places where we are told specifically what the gospel or doctrine of Christ is. I’ll show you another very short version in Moroni when we’re done with this and then if we have time we can look at Moses. If not, we’ll just tell people to go look at it. They’re iteration after iteration of the doctrine of Christ, because it’s so important. We’re going to get Nephi closing his record with it and we’re going to get Christ himself telling it to us twice. And then we’re going to get actually Mormon and Moroni ending, or pretty close to ending their record with it.

Hank Smith: 07:40 We’re getting quite a few witnesses.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 07:42 Yeah, this is heavy hitter stuff. Don’t miss this, is what he’s saying. We go to verse 13, this is where we get the beginning, this inclusio, all right, so it starts out in chapter 27. So this is what we call the second day of Christ, just taught the Nephites and then he’s gone up to heaven and he’s come back and he’s teaching them again and part of that, they’re having disputations, again, “What should we call the church?” And he answers that, for them, and tells them it should be called after Him, because it’s his church. But that gives Him then the chance to launch into this retelling of it. Chapter 27:11, “But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you, they have joined their works for a season.”

  08:24 So this is very similar to the 3 Nephi 11 part. If you’ve got contention, you’re following the devil, it’s not going to work. But notice this idea of following works. Whose works are you following? It’s these two choices that Nephi kept giving us and he wants us to follow his works or follow Him. There’s that catchy phrase again. But instead, He is talking about people who follow the works of the world. Then verse 13, he says, “Behold I have given unto you…” He’s going to say, “I’ve given unto you my gospel,” but what he’s going to give us is the doctrine, so I think he’s referring to when he gave it to us, when Nephi gave it to us. “And this is the gospel which I have given unto you, that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.”

  09:05 So we have that again, “I do the Father’s will,” that unity. “And my father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me.” Now, we’re going to look at a specific element of that in just a second, but notice it’s again this idea that he will save us and he’s going to help us follow Him. He’s going to talk specifically about judgment, but I think it includes in it this element of, “I have to lift everyone to me, everyone has to be following me, but when they do, that I might draw all men unto me,” we’re still in verse 14, “that as I have been lifted up by men, even so should men be lifted up by the Father to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.”

  09:49 Now, we’ve had in 2 Nephi 31 and 32 this emphasis on; you have to be clean, that’s what’s coming into play here. You’re going to be judged whether you were made clean or not. “And for this cause I’ve been lifted up, therefore according to the power of the Father,” so he keeps emphasizing how he does the Father’s will and it’s the Father’s power, “I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works. And it shall come to pass that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled, and if he endureth to the end…” So when you get those three phrases, if the gospel of Christ’s phrase wasn’t enough, putting those three phrases together should tell you we’re talking about the same thing. Those are your scriptural clues, your word clues.

  10:27 “If he repent and is baptized my name, he shall be filled. And if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world. And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that shall be hewn down,” here’s the two choices again, “and cast into the fire from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father. And this is the word,” so here we have some word going on again, “which he hath given unto the children of man. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.” So we have this little bit about fulfilling, it was commandments last time, but words a similar thing. Verse 19, “And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom,” Nephi taught that a whole bunch of times, “therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith,” so there we get the faith, “and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.”

  11:25 “Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth.” This seems to be the language that’s going specifically back to 2 Nephi 31. The commandment is: “Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name,” now listen to this part, “that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day. Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel and ye know the things which you must do in my church, for the works which you have seen me do,” here’s the following example, “the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye do also, for that which you have seen me do even that shall ye also do.”

  12:03 And we could continue on and read some other things, like for example, he’s going to get to verse 29 is where he says, “Therefore, ask and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.” There’s more like in 2 Nephi 32 that follows on, but the inclusio was there in verse 21 in, “This is my gospel.” So notice how the emphasis in this one is; You’re going to need the Holy Ghost to be successful in judgment. You’re going to follow me, but you will, whether you will want to or not, be drawn to me and the Father to be judged and the only way to be successful is to have believed, repented, been baptized and endured to the end with the Holy Ghost with you. And in this case the emphasis is so that the Holy Ghost can sanctify you. The change that… And we talked about that in 2 Nephi 31. It was there. We talked about it a bunch, but that’s the primary emphasis on the role of the Holy Ghost in this iteration, is the sanctification that comes by the Holy Ghost.

Hank Smith: 13:01 Wow.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 13:02 I hope we’re seeing how similar these are and how the Holy Ghost is so crucial in all of them. Let’s do at least one more and then if we have time, we can do another. But this is a really short one, but you’ll see that the language is such that I think it’s clear that they want us to think of this. So let’s go to Moroni chapter eight, and it’s just a couple verses long. In Moroni chapter eight, Moroni is quoting a letter from his father and what he’s just been talking about is that baptizing little children is a mockery, because little children are alive in Christ and you’re denying the power of Christ’s atoning sacrifice if you baptize them. But as he finishes up with that, so we’re again Moroni chapter eight, we get verse 24. Well, verse 23 to just help us have the context. We’ll start in verse 22. “For behold that all little children are alive in Christ and also all they who are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; unto such baptism availeth nothing. But it is a mockery before God denying the mercies of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works.”

  14:12 Now I think, I don’t know, I can’t read Mormon’s mind, but I think he’s saying, “Okay, these people don’t need to be baptized, but if as soon as I say someone doesn’t need to be baptized, I have to talk about the doctrine of Christ, because it said we need to be baptized.” So he’s making that distinction, there are people who don’t, because they don’t understand or they don’t have the ability to discern right from wrong. But then he gets into verse 24, and this is where we start this very short version and he doesn’t mention the phrase doctrine of Christ, but I think there’s some keywords in here that will help us understand it’s what he is talking about. “Behold, my son, this thing ought not to be; for repentance is unto them that are under condemnation and under the curse of a broken law. And the first fruits of repentance is baptism; and baptism cometh by faith unto the fulfilling the commandments.” There’s one of our phrases, because Nephi, that’s how he talks about baptism, fulfilling the commandments by being baptized. “And the fulfilling of the commandments bringeth remission of sins.”

  15:04 And you see the tie in that he’s making there with, “As you fulfill the commandments through baptism, then you can have remission of sins,” and that’s exactly what Nephi was saying. And he’s got the faith and repentance and baptism all tied together here. “And remission of sins bringeth meekness, and lowliness of heart,” which is a way of saying you’re humble enough, you’re going to follow God. You’re not stiffnecked, who is what Nephi said to people who don’t follow God. “And because of meekness and lowliness of heart cometh the visitation of the Holy Ghost, which Comforter filleth with hope and perfect love, which love endureth,” so there’s our enduring, “by diligence unto prayer,” there’s the need for prayer, “until the end shall come, when all the saints shall dwell with God.” That’s a very short version of it. He gives us a really condensed version of it and I think it’s because he says, “Well, I said some people don’t need to be baptized, so I need to reiterate the doctrine of Christ, so people know if you could get this and understand it, you need to be baptized.”

  15:59 But notice how he ties it all together. We have to follow Christ unto the fulfilling of the commandments, the commandment to be baptized. We have to have faith and repent and be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost and be meek enough to follow God and endure to the end through prayer, which will bring the Holy Ghost. But in this case, the role of the Holy Ghost is to give us hope and love, charity. And he’s already talked about how you have to pray for charity. And I would say this is a subset of sanctification. To be full of hope and charity, that is to be sanctified. That’s a love of God and of all men, is the way that Nephi said it, but you have to be full of the Holy Ghost. So, if we were to review these four different places in the Book of Mormon that we’ve seen the doctrine of Christ, in the longer versions they all have this notion that we have to follow Christ, we have to submit our will to the Father and the Son, that they are unified and that they bear testimony of each other and that they command us to follow specifically, in lots of ways, but specifically in believing, wanting to repent and being baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost and then a different element of the Holy Ghost is emphasized.

  17:07 So the Holy Ghost telling us what we need to do, the Holy Ghost giving us a witness of the Father and the Son, the Holy Ghost sanctifying us and specifically sanctifying us in a way that fills us with hope and love. As I read the doctrine of Christ, it’s all important, but it seems to me the most important thing is to have the Holy Ghost with us. With that in mind, with your permission, I’d like to read a couple of things from President Nelson and these are things he said in a couple of different talks in a couple of different places, but he summed them all up in his book, “The Heart of the Matter.” And I’m just going to read from page 172, and you’ll recognize this from conference talks. In this book, he weaves lots of conference talks together in beautiful ways.

  17:53 He says, “However, in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting and constant influence of the Holy Ghost. So I plead with you to increase your spiritual capacity to receive personal revelation. Choose to do the spiritual work required to experience the whisperings of the Holy Ghost, choose also to hear the words of the Lord through scripture and through the words of the prophets.” Do you see how he’s tying them together the way that we have? “As you seek to more clearly receive direction from Heaven, you will be blessed with additional power to deal with temptation,” that’s sanctification, “struggles and weaknesses. I promise miracles in your marriage, family, relationships and daily work, and I promise that your capacity to feel joy,” or hope and love I would say, “is it will increase. My beloved brothers and sisters, I plead with you to increase your capacity to receive revelation.”

  18:52 I love when modern prophets and ancient prophets are all on the same page and I think that’s what we have here, this plea from Nephi, from Christ, from Mormon and echoed by his son, Moroni. And then from Russell M. Nelson, to have the spirit with us to bring about all these things that are part of the doctrine of Christ. We won’t submit our will to God, we won’t know what we should do, we won’t be changed the way we’ve talked about. We won’t really rely on Christ, because we won’t really know he’s the son of God if we don’t have the Spirit with us constantly. We need to do whatever it takes to have the Spirit with us constantly.

Hank Smith: 19:32 Yeah, Kerry, I remember talks as a youth about don’t lose the Spirit, don’t go to that place where you can lose the Spirit. But we might emphasize that a little more too. It’s not just the loss of the Spirit, it’s the loss of everything, when you lose the Spirit. It’s the connection to God. It’s your connection to the Atonement, all of it.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 19:50 Yeah, your knowledge of what to do, your ability to be changed, your ability to want the right things, your ability to feel the joy and hope and love, all of it. And it reminds me of when President Nelson was saying to put in the spiritual work necessary, it reminds me of a story my mission president told me. So my mission president was firsthand witness of this. While I was a missionary serving under him, he went to a meeting that was held in the church by the Los Angeles Temple and it was a meeting where they had stake presidents and mission presidents from that part of southern California together. President Packer was the one who was teaching. He taught all sorts of stuff and then he had questions and answers at the end and there were all sorts of questions and answers. And the way my mission president told me the story, he said, “Well, the answer most of the time ended up being, ‘Well, the Spirit’s going to have to direct you in that one.'”

  20:37 The way my mission president said it was that, “Then a stake president asked a question that maybe normally he shouldn’t have asked, but I think he was supposed to, because the answer he got was so powerful that we needed to hear it. That stake president said, ‘Okay, President Packer, you keep saying we need to have the Spirit to direct us in all these things. What do we need to do to make sure we have the Spirit with us?’ And President Packer’s answer was two words, ‘Earn it.'” We all know what we need to do. He didn’t need to go into a long discourse. This is what we’re taught literally in primary. We all know what we need to do, we just need to do it. And that’s what President Nelson is saying, put in the spiritual work necessary or take charge of your testimony. Do what you need to do to invite the Spirit into your life. Now some of that is going to be following the promptings of the Spirit.

  21:25 I always remember President Hunter said this, he said, “If you fail to follow the promptings of the Spirit, those promptings will cease.” But I assume that the converse of that is true; the more you follow the promptings of the Spirit, and if anyone was an example of this, it’s President Monson, but the more you follow the promptings of the Spirit, the more they will increase. We know prayer, we know scripture study, we know avoiding the bad things, going to church, renewing our covenants, wanting to do what God wants. But I think also doing those things that the Spirit tells you to do, that’s part of earning it, that’s part of the spiritual work that’s necessary. Follow the promptings, he’ll increase more direction, more sanctification, more joy, a stronger testimony of Christ, all of these things, greater charity, all of these things will happen, because of your following the promptings of the Spirit.

Hank Smith: 22:11 I have a quote from Elder Hales, “Choose to put yourself in a position to have experiences with the spirit of God through prayer, scripture study, church meetings, the temple, your home, wholesome interactions with others, wholesome entertainment, choices.” When we say earn, you’re like, “Oh, that sounds difficult.” Actually, it just comes down to your agency.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 22:35 Yeah, what you’re going to choose. That’s that same thing. Note how often prayer was a part of this. Nephi seemed to be emphatic. We just had Moroni, Christ, Ask what you should do, ask for charity, ask for forgiveness, ask for sanctification. Just keep asking. God wants to give it to us more than we seem to be ready to receive it. We’ve heard it from a few different sources. We live beneath our privileges of inspiration. We live, I think, beneath our privileges of having the Spirit with us. God is saying, “Ask me, please just ask me. Prove me now herewith,” He is saying in a way. “I want to give you these abundant blessings. Please ask.”

  23:15 Now, at the risk of leaving the Book of Mormon, and this is a long enough version that we probably won’t have time to read everything, but I think there’s another place where it’s pretty clear they don’t use the phrase doctrine of Christ, but another place where it’s pretty clear they are and it interacts a little bit I think with 3 Nephi 27 and it might help us with some of the things that we’ve talked about and we’ve made reference to it a few times. So let’s go to Moses chapter six and we’ll have to skip around a little bit, even though I think the last verses of Moses six, the ones we’re going to read on, is one of the most doctrinally rich set of verses anywhere in scripture. It’s incredible. And this is Enoch telling the story of God teaching Adam. And it seems to me this is right after they’ve been cast out of the Garden of Eden. It may even be the same time when an angel teaches him about sacrifice, because that seems to intimate that he’s baptized after that and we have the story of his baptism in here. It may be the same time, we can’t really tell, but it’s somewhere around there.

  24:10 If we go to Moses chapter six, this is Enoch’s telling of the story. We could start in verse 50, “But God hath made known unto our fathers that all men must repent.” That’s a clue that we’re getting there. And we’ll go to verse 52, “And he also said unto him,” meaning Adam, “if thou wilt turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, and believe, and repent of all thy transgressions, and be baptized, even in water, in the name of mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth, which is Jesus Christ, the only name which shall be given under heaven, whereby salvation shall come unto the children of men…” Notice already we’ve got come to Him, submit to Him, hearken to His voice, follow Him, follow and keep His commandments, believe, repent, be baptized in the name of Christ and God bearing witness of Christ, so we’ve got all that so far. Then if you do all that, “ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost,” and then look, “asking all things in his name, and whatsoever ye shall ask, it shall be given unto you.” In some ways just that verse has the whole thing in it.

  25:12 I’d love to read all of these, because it’s so powerful, but we’ll skip for the sake of time. But verse 53, Adam asked him why and then God explains the fall and our carnal natures, and we even get shades of Lehi in here, they have to know the bitter to taste the good and verse 56, and you’ll see this is so much like what Nephi was teaching. “And it is given unto them to know good from evil; wherefore they are agents unto themselves.” That almost sounds like Lehi and Nephi. “And I have given unto you another law and commandment. Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent.” So here’s the commandment, but what’s the commandment? “Repent or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there,” we’ve got that theme again, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.”

  26:04 You see how we’ve got all these elements that were in all those other passages? “Therefore I give unto you a commandment, to teach these things freely unto your children, saying…” And here’s the verse you were talking about earlier, Hank, “That by reason of transgression cometh the Fall, which Fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so become of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory. For by the water, ye keep the commandment…” So baptism is keeping the commandment. You see that theme just keeps coming again and again. Now here’s the interesting part, “by the Spirit, ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified.”

  26:59 I find that so interesting, because 3 Nephi 27:20 said we were sanctified by the Holy Ghost, but here it says you’re justified by the Holy Ghost and sanctified by the blood of Christ. They both have to be true. Sometimes you have to triangulate scripture this way. I think that this is telling us, this is one of the places where I’m convinced that it’s telling us that the Spirit, the Holy Ghost and the atoning sacrifice of Christ work hand in glove. And that’s why I said earlier that the Spirit is the agent that enters into our soul with the atoning blood of Christ to both justify and sanctify us, because it’s described one way, in one place, and one way in the other. And I think that means shenayim, both of them are true. That’s really powerful.

Hank Smith: 27:40 Kerry, that’s fantastic. The Holy Ghost is the vehicle by which the Atonement becomes inside of me. So often I’ll get that question; “I love the Atonement, I want to use the Atonement. I don’t know how. I love it, but it’s outside of me.” This gives us the way to take the Atonement from outside of you to inside of you.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 28:05 Yeah, absolutely. And notice it’s part of the sacrament prayers, where we are renewing our covenants, where part of that is going to be forgiven, justification and sanctification right there. And what is it about? Well, it’s about Christ, in each time and it’s about the Holy Ghost in each prayer. Those are the two elements that are in both prayers; Christ and the Holy Ghost. And that’s what gives us that sanctifying power. If you’re going to talk about any place, it’s the sacraments, where we’re going to talk about taking the atonement of Christ into our soul, literally eat something as that symbolism of taking it into us and it becoming part of us and it’s about the Spirit and the Son. The more we have the Spirit with us, repenting and having the Spirit with you, you’re taking advantage of the atonement of Christ, you’re going to be justified and sanctified.

  28:49 And notice that emphasis keeps going on, the Holy Ghost in the next verse. “Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven, the Comforter…” So the Comforter, that’s the Holy Ghost, here he equates that with the record of heaven. We have to have another podcast where we explore that for two hours. “The peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things,” so quickeneth is to make alive, so it says sanctifying born again thing, “quickeneth all things; that which knoweth all things,” this knowing what to do, “and have all power according to wisdom, mercy, justice, truth and judgment. And now, behold, I say unto you: This is the plan of salvation unto all men through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time.”

  29:31 And then verse 63, he talks about how everything bears record of him. So we’ve got the witnesses again and then verse 64, Adam is caught by the Spirit and he is baptized. In verse 65, “And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God,” which is the Holy Ghost, “descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.” That exact thing we’ve been talking about, being born again, being changed, being sanctified, becoming a new child. And then we get verse 66, this is going to sound so similar to 2 Nephi 31, “And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father and the Son from henceforth and forever. And thou art called after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years.” So you see that, born again, and then look at verse 66 sums up some of what we’ve been talking about. “Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God,” and he’s talking to Adam.

  30:29 I would guess that Eve is baptized right after this. I don’t know if it’s by Adam or by the Holy Ghost, but it then would be said a daughter of God, to a child of God, let’s read it that way. “Behold, thou art one in me, a child of God; and thus may all become my sons or my child. Amen.” We’re all God’s children, but we become in a different way through the covenant and that’s what’s happened here. He has entered into the covenant, through the covenant and the Holy Ghost changing us that way that we’re talking about, we’re now born again and who is the father of the new us? It’s Christ.

  31:01 Then of course God is his father, so we become children of God and Christ in a different, new way. We’ve been quickened, all those things about becoming a new creature and being born again. Christ is our father of this new being that we are, which came about, because of the power that his Father gave him. We’ve read that and that’s clear, and it came about, because the Holy Ghost entered into us. All three together are necessary and present and wonderfully unified as we become unified with them through this atoning sacrifice, this covenant and the power of the Holy Ghost whom the Father sent to us. It’s so beautiful and exciting.

Hank Smith: 31:44 What you’ve just taught us here in the last two minutes, that helps us understand when sometimes Jesus is called the Father and we go, “No, no, no, no, no, he’s not the father.” No, he is the father of your spiritual rebirth.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 31:57 Absolutely. In fact, I had Paul Hoskisson for a Book of Mormon class once a long time ago. You may know Paul Hoskisson.

Hank Smith: 32:04 He’s my cousin.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 32:04 Oh, is he?

Hank Smith: 32:06 Oh yeah, the brilliance, right Kerry?

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 32:08 You’re in good company, yeah. And he puts this chart up on the board and it’s got us and Christ and then he wants to know who the father of each phase of our existence is. I add in a column when I do it, but the first one is father of our spirit. So who’s the father of your spirit? Well, it’s God. Who’s the Father of Christ’s spirit? Well, it’s God. Mortal body, who’s the Father. Well, for Christ, that’s God. For me, that’s dad. Now I add in the column, the born again, the new you. For Christ, well, maybe he didn’t have to be changed so much. I don’t know. So maybe it’s God and maybe we just skip that part for him, but for me, that’s Christ. Then the column he put up is eternal life. Who’s the Father of Christ, eternal life, who gave him that power? Well, he says very specifically it’s God. But who’s the father of my eternal life? That’s Christ. Can we see how every bit as much as God is my father and my dad is my father, Christ is my father.

Hank Smith: 32:59 King Benjamin, “This day he has spiritually begotten. You are now called the children of Christ.”

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 33:06 Yep. And that’s that born again part. Then hopefully we get to the fully born again, the eternal life part where it happens again. He’s our Father again.

Hank Smith: 33:14 The Father of our salvation.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 33:16 The glorified, sanctified, resurrected us is begotten by Christ.

John Bytheway: 33:23 The thing that stood out to me throughout the Book of Mormon is how often first principles are mentioned, faith in Jesus Christ and repentance and then baptism and the Holy Ghost. And now, you’ve added to that, I love what you’ve helped me see, is words that aren’t very popular today, submitting to God, obedience to God and how Jesus is telling us, “I was submitting my will to the Fathers. Now follow me in submitting your will to the Fathers as well.” That’s been really helpful for me today.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 33:56 I’m so glad and that unity, you guys know I’ve been writing about the covenant for a while and I’ve come to understand that relationship, that unity with God is the key element of that. That new book we talked about is all about exploring how the point of Christ’s atoning sacrifice is to create complete and full unity with God. The way that happens is by us and Christ being completely separated from God. The greater Christ’s separation, the greater the unity he can create for us. But that unity, that beautiful relationship that we want so much and that we’re missing so much, I think sometimes we don’t sense the wound, it’s there, but we don’t in the front of our mind recognize it, the wound that we suffer from being separated from God. But look how we overcome it in stages, through all the things we’ve been talking about, we get more and more and more unified until one day we will have, like has been explained so many times and what we’ve read today, the full and complete unity that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost have, one day, as it says right here in Moses 6:66, “Thou art one in me.”

  34:59 One day, we can be completely and fully unified with them. That’s when that terrible wound we feel will be healed. And the wonderful thing is it’s not just that it’s healed, but we’re in a better place than we were before. We’re more unified with God than we were before. It’s so beautiful.

John Bytheway: 35:16 All this oneness we’re talking about is the center of the word atonement, the atonement of Christ. That’s what’s going to make the oneness possible is that atonement of Christ.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 35:28 Yeah, it’s the purpose for the covenant and the purpose for Christ is to fulfill that covenant and make us one with God. It’s what it’s all about, everything, from beginning to end. Now that we’ve done all that and seen the doctrine of Christ play throughout the Book of Mormon and even the book of Moses, let’s go back to Nephi. In a way, this is sad. I always get sad a little bit when I finish 2 Nephi, because there are times where I’ve been like, “Man, Nephi, there’s no way I can live up to how you are. Man, that’s pretty harsh to say to your brother,” or whatever, but I love Nephi and he has been our guide for so long now through such powerful, beautiful… There’s beauty all over in the scriptures, but page for page, I don’t think you’re going to find any place that’s more beautiful than first and second Nephi. It’s just incredible.

  36:18 It’s always a little bit sad to leave Nephi behind and we don’t really, because everyone else just keeps teaching using his themes and his ideas and his teachings. But let’s let Nephi wrap this up for us and we’ll see that, in a way, he’s reiterating the doctrine of Christ. So 2 Nephi 33 ends up being really his farewell. This is the end. This is the last we hear of him and he knows it. He’s finishing his record and he has some really powerful things in here. Note, in verse one, “I, Nephi, can’t write all the things that were taught among my people; neither am I mighty in writing, like unto speaking,” now listen to this part, “for when a man speaketh by the power of the Holy Ghost the power of the Holy Ghost carrieth it unto the hearts of the children of men.”

  36:57 That’s the word of Christ. That’s the word that he’s talking about. And it turns out, it can happen when you’re writing, it’s just harder for you to tell. Sometimes when you’re speaking, you’re feeling the Spirit and they’re feeling the Spirit and you can tell you’re both feeling the Spirit. But when you’re writing, often you’ll feel directed while you’re writing, but you don’t get that you can tell they’re feeling the Spirit, because they’re not there. It’s harder. I think he just doesn’t recognize that his words, when he writes, will have the same effect, that the Spirit… It certainly has for me, as we’ve been reading, the Spirit will do… But anyway, that’s this Holy Ghost element again and then he talks about there are people who will harden their hearts and won’t listen to it, because they esteem it as a thing of naught.

  37:35 Verse three, “But I, Nephi, have written what I have written…” I love Nephi. He’s just laying it all on the line. “and I esteem it as of great worth, and especially unto my people.” Notice the prayer part, “For I pray continually for them by day,” and here’s the charity part full of love, “and mine eyes water my pillow by night, because of them; and I cry,” here’s the prayer again, “I cry unto my God in faith, and I know that he will hear my cry. And I know that the Lord will consecrate my prayers for the gain of my people.” And we could read this whole chapter, but we don’t have time. But let me highlight maybe a couple of verses. Verse six, “I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath redeemed my soul from hell.” So beautiful. And then, “I have charity for my people, and great faith in Christ that I shall meet many souls spotless at his judgment seat.”

  38:36 There are those same things again. We’re going to be judged, but it’s going to be good for some of them, because of Christ and faith and praying and charity and all of these things. And then we can jump down to verse nine, “I also have charity for the Gentiles. But behold, for none of these can I hope except they shall be reconciled unto Christ,” there’s what we’ve been talking about so often, “and enter into the narrow gate,” that’s the baptism, “and walk in the strait path that leads to life, and continue in the path until the end of the day of probation.” That’s enduring to the end.

  39:07 And then he’ll testify more about his words. But maybe let’s let Nephi and the way he ends, let’s jump down to verse 12. “And I pray the Father in the name of Christ that many of us, if not all, may be saved in his kingdom at that great and last day. And now, my beloved brethren, all those who are of the house of Israel, and all ye ends of the earth,” because everyone can become part of the house of Israel, “I speak unto you as the voice of one crying from the dust: Farewell until that great day shall come. And you that will not partake of the goodness of God…” So here’s that dichotomy that he just keeps coming back to, that Noel Reynolds convinced me is the theme of the whole small plates.

  39:45 “And you that will not partake of the goodness of God, and respect the words of the Jews, and also my words, and the words which shall proceed forth out of the mouth of the Lamb,” so notice the emphasis on word, again, “behold, I bid you an everlasting farewell.” That’s chilling. “I bid you an everlasting farewell, for these words shall condemn you at the last day. For what I seal on earth, shall be brought against you at the judgment bar; for thus hath the Lord commanded me, and I must obey. Amen.”

  40:11 My personal taste, I wish he’d done the part about you’ll be cast off and then my beloved brethren will be in a great place together, he’d left that part at the end, because I like the ending on the positive part, but Nephi is true to this to the very end and just laying it out. In a way, he has shown that he exemplifies the doctrine of Christ in chapter 33. He’s exemplified everything about it and he is pleading with us and laying this out before so clearly, as he has already done so many times, please listen to the word of Christ and follow it and be changed by it. Your choice is to do that, and have it be wonderful, or not and have it be terrible. Those are your two choices. But I know how this works and I’ve been faithful and I hope to see you there.

  40:54 What a powerful way to end. I want to thank Nephi. He’s probably not listening right now, but hopefully sometime. I want to thank Nephi for teaching me so much, so powerfully, and affecting my life in such a good way. And I want to thank the Lord for sending this prophet and then sending the Spirit to teach me as I’ve read from this prophet. And Mormon and Joseph Smith who all make this possible, all those prophets who worked hard, so that the Holy Ghost could teach me and edify me in the way that I’ve needed.

John Bytheway: 41:21 You can read verse seven and take out the word spotless and it makes sense. “I shall meet many souls at his judgment seat,” but I love that he wants to meet us spotless. Having, as he said earlier, washed our garments in the blood of Christ. The title page says that ye may be found spotless at the judgment seat of Christ. Moroni 10, the third to the last verse says that ye become holy without spot. I like the idea of unspotted, being spotless and how Nephi wants to meet us, but he wants us to apply this doctrine of Christ that you’ve taught us about so beautifully and so we can be spotless.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 41:55 And you can see Moroni drawing on Christ in Mormon. That’s why they have that charity and that’s why he wants to meet us spotless, because he has charity. That’s what Mormon and Moroni and I are both talking about at the very end, so that can we get spotless. You see Nephi’s teachings and especially these teachings mirrored again and again and again. It’s powerful.

Hank Smith: 42:13 Kerry, what a treat. Thank you for being with us today. One of the ways I know I’m feeling the Spirit is I just don’t want it to end, but we know it has to. But thank you for being here.

Dr. Kerry Muhlestein: 42:24 It’s my pleasure, really, really.

Hank Smith: 42:26 And John, you and I are both followers of Kerry’s podcast, The Scriptures Are Real.

John Bytheway: 42:33 tsar.website

Hank Smith: 42:34 Yeah, we hope everyone will go and check that out. Kerry’s work he’s doing there is fantastic. With that, we want to thank Dr. Kerry Muhlestein for spending his time with us today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors David and Verla Sorensen, and we always, every episode, we remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. We hope you’ll join us next week. We’re starting with Nephi’s brother, Jacob, on followHIM.

  43:05 Before you skip to the next episode, I have some important information. This episode’s transcript and show notes are available on our website, followhim.co. That’s followhim.C-O. On our website, you’ll also find our two books, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament and Finding Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Both books are full of short and powerful quotes and insights from all our episodes from the Old and New Testaments. The digital copies of these books are absolutely free. You can watch the podcast on YouTube. Also, our Facebook and Instagram accounts have videos and extras you won’t find anywhere else. If you’d like to know how you can help us, if you could subscribe to, rate, review, and comment on the podcast, that will make us easier to find. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew, David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilson, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra and Annabelle Sorensen.