John Bytheway: 00:00 Keep listening for part two with Prof. Danny Ricks. Doctrine & Covenants sections 46 through 48.

Hank Smith: 00:07 Let’s keep going here. I remember either it was four years ago or I just did this in my own study here, John, that there’s a difference between wisdom and knowledge, right? And do you remember knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. There’s a difference between knowledge and wisdom.

John Bytheway: 00:27 Knowledge is knowing how to play the banjo. Wisdom is knowing when in what settings to play the banjo.

Hank Smith: 00:37 Oh, I love it.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 00:39 And make note too, this isn’t the word of wisdom in section 89. This really is wisdom as in wisdom’s sake.

Hank Smith: 00:47 We could spend a lot of time on every one of these, the faith to be healed, the faith to heal, working of miracles, to prophesy, the discerning of spirits, to speak with tongues, the interpretation of tongues. All these gifts come from God for the benefit of his children.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 01:08 Man, I’d like to make a comment on speaking with tongues. I wish I had it. I don’t. It’s so embarrassing if people have foreign names. It takes me so long to get into this farmer’s mind, like how to say their name and I try not to be offensive and I want to get it right. Please help me do this. This is a shiny one. Remember why it’s given. None of these gifts are a Letterman’s jacket with these pins. Look at all of my gifts that I have and that makes me cool. There’s no caste system. These gifts are given so that God can build his kingdom. So that God can come closer to him. And so he freely gives these gifts to the gift of tongues, whether it be Spanish, Portuguese, French, the word, but it also can be the gift of tongues to speak kindly and softly to speak with people that comfort you.

  02:01 And I hope all of us have that friend that we know that we can call and they speak in a way that the spirit whispers to us and buoys us up and strengthens us. That’s a form of this gift as well. But the purpose is to build the kingdom of God. If Joseph Smith said this quote, the ultimate design of tongues is to speak to foreigners and if persons are very anxious to display their intelligence, let them speak so such in their own tongues. The gifts of God are all useful in their place, but when they’re applied to that which God does not intend, they prove an injury, a snare and a curse instead of a blessing. So to remember as we receive these, you have to remember the intent in which they were given.

Hank Smith: 02:46 Danny, I liked what you said there about tongues might not be just languages, it might be the ability to connect with people. And I have seen in my experience, really good teachers who can connect with different age groups. My wife Sara can connect with children in ways that I just can’t. I try to play Candy Land with my kids and they just cheat and I get frustrated. And then I’ve seen John Bytheway teach youth and you’re going, how is this possible? They’re entranced by this.

John Bytheway: 03:18 That’s you Hank.

Hank Smith: 03:19 Danny, I’ve watched you teach up at BYU Idaho. So maybe that gift of tongues is also the ability to connect or teach certain age groups and maybe the interpretation of tongues is that I can understand what that person is trying to say.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 03:36 Just some thoughts along those lines too. Elder Holland’s talk in 2007, Tongue of Angels. There is no place for physical abuse of course, but verbal abuse he states, I wish to caution us if caution is needed regarding on how we speak to each other and how we speak of ourselves. And it’s almost like it’s this we feel uncomfortable in a situation. So someone says something kind. No, no, no, I’m the worst. No you’re not. You’re a child of God. You’re wonderful. Like stop. Just say thank you and recognize that you have worth, you don’t need to disparage yourself. We certainly never need to disparage anyone ever.

Hank Smith: 04:15 That is such a fantastic talk. I still remember where I was listening to that talk. I was mowing the lawn. I was crying and laughing and crying and laughing as I’m mowing the lawn. Just a life changing talk. So many of them are. The fun part of general conference is thinking this next talk might be a talk that I remember for the rest of my life.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 04:39 Can I read one more excerpt out of Elder Hollands?

Hank Smith: 04:42 Yeah, let’s do it.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 04:43 It says today I speak against verbal and emotional abuse of anyone against anyone. These things ought not to be. And he says, in that same spirit we speak, the sin of verbal abuse knows no gender. Bridle your tongue. All of us need to bridle our tongues and no matter what age, every gender, every person, every human, watch your words.

John Bytheway: 05:06 There’s one that’s not mentioned here. I wonder what you guys think about this. There’s some people that they may not be able to talk to young people, but they are incredible mentors. When I think of the story of Ammaron coming to Mormon, Mormon says, I was 10 years of age, he came to me. It wasn’t like, hey guys, what should I do with my life? This mentor came to Mormon and said, I perceive that thou were a sober child and are quick to observe. The idea of someone that’s older that you respect to come to you and say, I see things in you that you might not see in yourself. I don’t know what Mormon’s reaction was really me? I don’t know. If Mormon was like unaware that he had the gift of being quick to observe and of being a sober child. The fact that a mentor comes to you and says, that must have been so thrilling for Mormon to hear that. And then he gave him an assignment. Well, I want you to be prepared when you’re 24 years old. Brother Pay, my priest quorum advisor treated me like he saw things in me I didn’t know that I had. I’m so grateful to have a good mentor in my life when I was younger. I had good parents and all that, but I had this young men’s leader that just really made me feel like there was more in me than I thought I had. Do you know what I’m talking about?

Hank Smith: 06:35 Didn’t you write an article about this?

John Bytheway: 06:37 I did. I wrote for the Church News. I mentioned something like this and Brother Wilcox looked at me and said, I want to see that article Monday. So I wrote it. Our friend Trent Toone over at the church news put it in. I can remember all of my young men leaders and my bishops, I can’t remember who won the Super Bowl, who won the NBA championship, who won the World Series. But I remember my mentors, every one of them. What a great gift to have someone like Ammaron who would come and say, I see some things in you. I don’t even know if you’re aware of this.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 07:13 I met Trent years and years ago, 1999 when I was a freshman at Rick’s college and I took a bowling intermurals class because that was the academic rigor I was interested in and Trent and I we’re on the same team and he is a great man and he is a great bowler. He is a great bowler.

Hank Smith: 07:33 Alright, Trent, if you’re listening, we might have to go bowling.

John Bytheway: 07:36 And that career path took him to a great writer and editor. Does a lot of church news articles for the young men. He helps us.

Hank Smith: 07:45 We love him. We love him.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 07:47 I think John’s example is a perfect idea of this discerning of spirits and absolutely what’s of God, what’s not of God. It’s a gift to be able to see in others your living evidence of men that had this, people that you worked with, young men’s leaders and bishops that you worked with that saw in you things that you didn’t see in yourself. And look at how that’s helped you become what God needed you to become and then also be able to help use those gifts further on. It’s amazing to see the connectivity of all of these gifts. You can’t help but think about Paul’s beautiful analogy of the body of Christ. You have a place in this. The eye doesn’t say to the ear, I have no need of the ear, the nose. I mean the ridiculous nature of can you imagine the nose like being like man, the ear, they don’t even sniff like what good are they? They don’t even smell anything. Like, yeah, you are needed. Every single person is needed. God disperses these gifts as he wills them to be right. Verse 26, all these gifts come from God. You’re known by him. He sees good in you. He sees potential in, he sees the good that you can do and how important it is to keep these covenants that we make because we receive these gifts through covenant. We receive these gifts through covenant and then to use those gifts to building the kingdom of God.

Hank Smith: 09:08 As I’m reading this, I want to combine the two topics. I don’t know if the Lord intended that, I hope so. In the beginning we talked about don’t cast anyone out, everybody belongs here. And then we talked about gifts of the Spirit. And if you combine those two, sometimes we are jealous of other people’s gifts, but then we can also be bothered by other people’s gifts. I don’t like that person, they do this thing. I’ve experienced the rough end of that a couple of times as I teach. I’m a touch irreverent, I’m not terrible, right John? Just okay, I’m terrible. I’m pretty terrible.

John Bytheway: 09:43 You’re not.

Hank Smith: 09:44 I feel like the Spirit has told me where the boundaries are. We could probably let the Spirit do that with most people’s gifts. Maybe we steady the arc in places we don’t need to. Try to correct someone.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 09:57 I think it can be contagious. On my drive down to do this podcast. I’ve got five kids in the van and my daughter’s so excited and she has energy and she’s like, oh, I’m so excited for this. We’re going to go to a game after this. We’re going to this game. One of my other kids kind of mocked her in like her excitement of this. Kid will be anonymous. Why did you do that? Like you just killed the joy. These gifts that people use. But we can get so blinded by like the way that we think it needs to be. Oh, how dare they have this? This is the way that it’s supposed to be. How many people in these early days of church as they come in with all their different backgrounds, there’s so many things that are preference rather than principle. Preference is not principle. Make sure when we correct which one where we’re correcting off of. Whether that be as a parent, as a church leader, even those that come in off the side that have no stewardship and still want to give their opinion. Make sure that this isn’t just a your preference thing.

Hank Smith: 10:55 I love that there’s times where I’ve seen the primary chorister doing their best to get these kids involved and someone will shut that down so fast. You shouldn’t have done that. You shouldn’t have said this. What’d you say? You just killed the joy. Knock the joy out of her. Let’s say it again Danny, preference isn’t principle. Are you sure that’s not the way it’s supposed to be done or is it the way you don’t like it to be done?

Prof. Danny Ricks: 11:24 Someone once told me this phrase where you can be the ripest juiciest peach in the world and some people just don’t like peaches. How you administer, it just might not be people’s flavor. And that’s okay if you’re a bishop right now and you’ve got a batch of people that you’re not their flavor, tell them, they don’t worry you’ve got only five years and you’ll get a different flavor.

Hank Smith: 11:47 Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 11:47 But let people strive.

Hank Smith: 11:49 Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 11:49 Let people strive.

Hank Smith: 11:51 I occasionally have to tell students who want to come up and correct my way of teaching. They’ll say, I feel like I need to tell you this. And I’ll say, listen, if the Lord wants me to change, he’ll tell me or my wife he’s probably not going to tell you. So if so and so needs to do something different and you have no stewardship there, it’s probably wise to keep that comment to yourself. John, you’ve told me before it takes zero, zero intelligence to criticize. John you know the poem.

John Bytheway: 12:24 Oh the builder poem.

Hank Smith: 12:25 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 12:26 I passed one day through a little town and saw them tearing a building down with a ho heave ho and a husky yell, they swung a ball and a side wall fell. I asked the foreman, are these men skilled? The kind you’d hire if you had to build? Oh no, he chuckled. No indeed. The common laborer is all I need. I can destroy in a day or two what builders have taken weeks to do. I thought to myself as I went on my way, which of these roles have I tried to play? Am I a builder who works with care, strengthening others by rule and square, shaping my peers to a well-made plan, helping them do the best they can? Or am I your wrecker who walks around content with the labor of tearing down? Yeah, it’s on the hard drive I guess.

Hank Smith: 13:07 Yeah, we criticize each other. Sometimes people then put their gift on the shelf thinking I guess it’s not a gift.

John Bytheway: 13:16 Boy, speaking of criticism, Elder Oaks said the primary reason for the commandment to avoid criticism is to protect the spiritual wellbeing of the criticizer.

Hank Smith: 13:28 Wow.

John Bytheway: 13:28 Not the person we would criticize. Whoa. Yeah. Hurts your own spirit.

Hank Smith: 13:34 We don’t realize what spirit we have. You’re not critical Danny, I’ve known you for a little while now and you’re not a critical guy. You’re going to go, here’s what’s good about that person.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 13:45 You try to because, you want that for you.

Hank Smith: 13:47 Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 13:48 I love when mercy is meted out to me and it tastes sweet when I’m forgiven to give people that benefit. To keep going in the Doctrine & Covenants 46 verse 9. These gifts that all may be benefited. That’s the purpose, that all are benefited. Remember why they’re given. If it’s negative, you best check yourself a couple times to see if it was really meant to benefit.

Hank Smith: 14:12 I need to write that down. I really like that. John, you’ve told me how many times if people are going to change, they’re not going to change because you told them to.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 14:20 I’ve yet to see the social media post that says, wow, you were right. I’ve changed my mind.

Hank Smith: 14:26 I have, yeah.

John Bytheway: 14:28 John Lund wrote a book about the art of giving and receiving criticism. He said, criticism doesn’t change people, people either change themselves or they’re changed by the Holy Ghost. And then he went on to say that criticism actually makes people withdraw. I don’t want to be around that. We can criticize somebody and it hurts the relationship. They withdraw from it. Like they say, they’re not usually going to say, wow, that’s really helpful.

Hank Smith: 14:56 Right? Well thank you for that. They might to your face. They might go, oh, okay.

John Bytheway: 15:03 Right. Yeah. And he says, when criticism is invited, that’s another thing. Hey, how did you, you know that’s a different time, but,

Hank Smith: 15:09 Can you help me out here? Yeah.

John Bytheway: 15:11 We’re treading on holy ground when we start telling somebody something’s wrong with them.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 15:15 I love how the Savior says in verse 33 though, if we’re struggling with this, all of us have our challenges that we struggle with and we seek these best gifts. But 33 interesting word choice. He goes, and you must practice virtue and holiness before me continually. If you’re feeling the promptings of the Spirit that there’s some areas that you need to grow and progress in this, you’re in good shape. Just keep practicing. Everyone else has been there. I remember asking my grandpa once, because my grandpa knew everything. Grandpas know everything. And I said, grandpa, how do you know everything? And this is before Google. This is before internet. We had grandpas. And he’d be like, Danny, I’m older than you because I’m old. I’ve experienced these. I’ve messed up a million more times than you have. I know that if you do that, that’s going to be the consequence.

  16:05 I don’t know because I’m wise. I know because I’ve done. And then learn from it and become wise. Hopefully keep practicing. If you’re a critical person, well ask God to give you the gift of charity. That’s a gift. The greatest of all. We could riff off of Corinthians here. If you have not charity, then it’s tinkling brass, tinkling symbols. Who cares? Faith to move mountains. Guess what? If they don’t know you’re loved, who cares? Keep striving, asking God to bless you, rejoicing that Jesus has forgiven you. I think one of the quickest ways to not be critical is to realize how much you’ve been forgiven and to rejoice in the forgiveness that’s been offered you. If you keep that in the forefront of your mind. And what a beautiful thought when we take the sacrament is I take the sacrament and remember I’m like, I’m forgiven.

  16:53 I really am. I’m clean, I’m pure. There’s not a better feeling in the world than knowing you’re a hundred percent clean with God and that’s only through Christ. But when we remember we are, it’s easy to love, it’s easy to forgive. It’s easier to not be critical. I’ve had promptings before and this is so embarrassing, getting frustrated with one of my kids, man, why are you going to do this and that I’ve heard the Spirit say, quote, they’re a way better boy than you ever were. Good point. He’s age appropriate. How many times that’s come into our minds, man, this is age appropriate. That’s exactly what a seven year old’s going to do and a two year old’s going to do and a teenage girl’s going to do and a, you’re just fine because of Jesus.

Hank Smith: 17:37 I’ll occasionally have a youth Sunday school teacher say they’re just out of control. I don’t know what to do. And sometimes I’ll say, listen, puppies bark and bite and you can’t expect a puppy to be a dog and you’re trying to help them, but a puppy’s a puppy and it’s going to do puppy things. And they kind of go, oh, that’s true. Sometimes we expect our puppies to act like adult dogs.

John Bytheway: 18:02 Hank, who was it that helped us? The end of the Book of Mormon. Hey, I fear lest the Gentiles shall mock these things and he kind of paraphrased the Lord saying, mockers mock. That’s what they do.

Hank Smith: 18:13 Yeah, that’s what they do.

John Bytheway: 18:16 No matter what you do, mockers mock. So don’t worry about it.

Hank Smith: 18:20 Danny, you quoted this earlier, but I’d like to give the entire quote before we end this section to hear what you think about it. This is Marvin J. Ashton, There are Many Gifts. He gives a list that I think our listeners might think, wait, that’s a gift? I didn’t know that was a gift. He says, let’s review some of these less conspicuous gifts. The gift of asking, the gift of listening, the gift of hearing and using a still small voice. The gift of being able to weep, the gift of avoiding contention, of being agreeable, avoiding vain repetition. The gift of seeking that which is righteous. The gift of not passing judgment, of looking to God for guidance, of being a disciple, caring for others, of being able to ponder, the gift of offering prayer. The gift of bearing testimony. And then he goes on, he says another one, the gift to look to God for direction. The gift to calm. The gift to care. It’s a fantastic talk all the way back in 1987, which shouldn’t be that long ago, but,

John Bytheway: 19:27 I love that.

Hank Smith: 19:29 Danny, how do we help people see, no, these are gifts. I’ll hear people say, they start to weep and they’ll say, oh, I just hate that. I cry so easy. And I think that is a gift. I haven’t cried since the Jazz lost to the Bulls in 1998. This is a gift.

John Bytheway: 19:46 97

Prof. Danny Ricks: 19:48 Yeah, it’s important to remember that every one of these gifts is an attribute that Christ has. Every good thing is God has in perfection. Jesus is a weeper. Shortest scripture. Jesus wept. If you want to be like Christ, you’re on your way if you’re a weeper. President Eyring, we can count on it at General Conference. President Eyring will tap his fingers and weep. And there is something about that. I’m with you, Hank. I’ve prayed for this gift when I’ve served as bishop because I feel things in here, but it doesn’t manifest on my face.

Hank Smith: 20:20 Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 20:21 And I’m afraid people will think that I’m not sincere or they will think that they won’t know that I do feel I want to help. This is a Christlike gift. It’s an attribute of Him. Whether it be weeping, yeah rejoice in it! It will help people feel ministered to if someone’s cried with you then kept that covenant to mourn with those that mourn, comfort those that stand in need of comfort. There’s a bond and a connection that you feel ministered to in a way that I don’t know if it can be replicated. Rejoice in these gifts.

Hank Smith: 20:56 Danny, how often have you, I bet you’re a little like me, have envied the gift of keeping your mouth shut, right? Like I think John has that gift. He knows when to be quiet. I beg the Lord for that gift. My wife has begged the Lord that I would have that gift.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 21:15 We were just studying 3 Nephi 17 in a class and Jesus has that gift. Remember after verse one through three, he’s like, I’m actually going to be done talking. It’s time for me to stop. It’s time for me to stop. There is a time. That’s a gift. One of the biggest things that I’ve heard, when people have doubts, they don’t know who to go to because they’re scared of being judged. A gift of listening. Jesus listened. Jesus listened. We’re striving to become like him. We need these gifts in every setting. Lift where you stand. Elder Uchtdorf October, 2008. Be content. Alma. O that I were an angel. I just need to be content with what I am. Too many times we want one of the other. Elder Uchtdorf says, however, there are those who sometimes struggle with this concept and when they do, they seem to fall into one of two camps. Either they seek to lead or they seek to hide. They covet a crown or a cave. Those I don’t ever want to be a bishop, I want to stay in my cave. Well guess what? God needs some. And those that like the cave sometimes make good ones. And if you’re, I want the crown. I want the crown. I’ll build and lift where you stand. Lift where you stand and rejoice in it. There are more primary teachers in heaven than prophets. So just rejoice in it.

Hank Smith: 22:39 Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 22:39 I’ll tell you this. If Jesus were to come to my ward this Sunday, I don’t think he’s going to go to gospel doctrine, I think he’ll go to the Primary. Follow in his footsteps. There’s no small things because God loves each of us individually so however you may minister. And it’s hard. When we see in ourselves, we want to feel appreciated. Everybody does. Go vertical. He’ll help you feel that.

Hank Smith: 23:03 The primary president in my ward right now, Danny is a friend of yours. Her name is Julie Lewis.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 23:08 Yes. Yes. One of the best humans ever.

Hank Smith: 23:12 Yeah. If you stop and watch, Sister Lewis is racing around administering the primary program. And I wonder if she thinks, am I doing anything that anybody is seeing? Because that looks like a tough job. So I love that Jesus would not go to gospel doctrine, he would go to primary.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 23:33 Well, and to ask ourselves this question too, like why do we want it? Why do we need it? When he who sees the sparrow fall, we do what we do because we’ve made covenants with God. We’ve consecrated. One of the covenants that we make in the endowment in the temple is consecration. I’m going to give my time, my talents, my means, my life. What? Like do what you want with it. But how twisted is that when we’re like, do what you want with it Lord. But actually I want you to do it this way though.

Hank Smith: 23:58  I need this. Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 23:59 This is what I need. And he is like, oh, I thought you gave it to me. I thought I could do with it what I needed to do with it. You’ll become what he needs you to be and you’ll become like him. Keep exercising faith in him. Repent of your sins. Make and keep your covenants. Serve where he asks you to go. Be the best minister in the world. Love your neighbors. You’ll receive everything. Remember that parable with Jesus and the talents? Five talent guy makes 10, well done good and faithful servant come now into the rest of thy Lord. Two talent person doubles it but he has four. It’s a fascinating thought. He doesn’t even have what the other one starts with. He still doesn’t even have that. So like, oh, if we’re looking in the parable of the slopes with Elder Gilbert right? That great talk a little while ago, man. But look what you’ve done. They get the same statement. If you’re looking for praise from the world, like you’ll get it sometimes, but you just won’t other times. So get over that and just feel good that you’re serving the master that sees all. God sees it, God sees it and the Spirit can validate to you that he’s pleased.

Hank Smith: 25:05 It has a great idea here in the manual it says, your study of spiritual gifts might lead you to ponder what gifts God has given you. How can you use these gifts to bless his children? And this little practice that I often forget, I don’t know about both of you, if you have a patriarchal blessing, it likely identifies gifts you have been given. Maybe not every time, but it likely does. So maybe this week is a time to open your patriarchal blessing. I sometimes go a long time without looking at that blessing.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 25:35 As you think about which ones you have or may have or which ones you want. I think that’s a healthy thing to do. I think it’s an appropriate thing to do. President George Q. Cannon said this, quote, if any of us are imperfect, it is our duty to pray for the gift that will make us perfect. No man ought to say, why cannot I help this? It’s my nature. He’s not justified in it for the reason that God has promised to give strength to correct these things and to give gifts that will eradicate them. If a man lack wisdom, it is his duty to ask God for wisdom. The same with everything else. That is the design of God concerning his church. He wants his saints to be perfected in the truth. For this purpose He gives these gifts and bestows them upon those who seek after them in order that they may be a perfect people upon the face of the earth.

  26:23 So seek them. He actually shares another thought on this. How many of you are seeking for these gifts that God has promised to bestow? How many of you, when you bow before your Heavenly Father in your family’s circle or in your secret places contend for these gifts to be bestowed upon you? Interesting verbiage there. Contend with Him. Give them to me. I need them. I want them. I have this challenge or this situation, this calling or this child that I’m trying to help. I need this gift. Father please. He continues. How many of you ask the Father in the name of Jesus to manifest himself to you through these powers and these gifts? Or do you go along day by day like a door turning on its hinges without having any feeling upon the subject, without exercising any faith whatever. Content to be baptized and to be members of the church and to rest their thinking that your salvation is secure because you have done this.

  27:15 I say to you in the name of the Lord as one of his servants, that you have need to repent of this. You have need to repent of the hardness of the heart, of your indifference and of your carelessness. There is not that diligence. There is not that faith. There is not that seeking for the power of God that there should be among a people who have received the precious promises we have. This is call to action. This is how we’re going to run our meetings. Everyone’s invited and you better get gifts of the Spirit so that we can do what God’s kingdom needs to do in these last days. And it’s to share this incredible message with the world.

Hank Smith: 27:52 That is wonderful. Danny, this has been fantastic. You have brought section 46 to life for me. It was in black and white, now it’s in color. Literally as I was marking along. Let’s do these last two sections. 47 and 48. Same month, same year. March, 1831. So they got a lot going on.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 28:11 John Whitmer gets a calling he doesn’t want. I think all of us could resonate with that a little bit. This is the only time it’s happened in this dispensation. I love it. And in the section heading even says, I would rather not do it. Please. I would rather not do it. Is this from the Lord? Please. I want it to be manifest through Joseph the seer, John Whitmer. He’s a wonderful soul to study. He does not stay faithful. But be mindful. If you’re only going to listen to the people that stayed faithful as you study church history, your list is going to get a little short for a while. Rejoice in the good that they did in the season and let Jesus be the judge. And we don’t want to dabble in that oh well, too bad. That I don’t know. No, that’s not our place. I don’t think any of us feel comfortable walking up to Jesus, tapping him on the shoulder at the judgment bar and be like, hey, I have some thoughts on this guy if you’re interested.

  28:59 No, let’s let Jesus do Jesus. So as you study church history, be mindful of that. Your job is not to judge the people in church history. Your job is to take the principles, learn from them, and try to live the way that Jesus is teaching them. John Whitmer, maybe not the best historian, but we’re all not the best at certain things. In my opinion, Oliver’s a better historian. But Oliver gets called on a mission. John gets called, I don’t want to do it, but I’ll do my best. We actually own the journal. We haven’t owned it for a long, long time. But last year when the church purchased all those buildings in Nauvoo and the Kirtland Temple and a number of documents we own. So the book is titled Book of John Whitmer, written by commandment. After he left the church he eventually refused to give it when he got excommunicated from the church.

  29:50 Let me read you what he wrote in there. I think it’s fascinating. We got a lot of access to it with Joseph Smith papers in 2012. But I love this thought. Whitmer wrote in his history, quote, some temporal movements have not proved satisfactory to all parties, has also terminated in the expulsion of many members, among whom is WW Phelps and myself. Therefore, I close the history of the church of Latter-day Saints, hoping that I may be forgiven of my faults and my sins be blotted out and in the last days be saved in the kingdom of God. Notwithstanding my present situation. That’s quite the way to end the journal. He never came back. A lot of the Whitmer’s thrived. David, one of the three witnesses is his brother. John Whitmer helped with the translation. He helped write for Joseph. Remember, learn from him but don’t judge him.

  30:43 Don’t judge him. Let Jesus be Jesus. Because there’s some wonderful things that we can learn. Verse one in section 47, write and keep a regular history. Let’s keep in mind and if this is me justifying my sins, correct me, John and Hank. Okay. But I’m not a good typical journaler. Straight up serious. I have journal entries that are back to back that say quote, I’m dating a girl named Angela. She’s wonderful. I’m excited to see where things go. The next entry is, by the way, I married her and we have two kids. So…

Hank Smith: 31:18 It’s a good history. One thing led to another. Yeah, it was…

Prof. Danny Ricks: 31:22 One thing led to another. Don’t worry about it but it worked out gloriously. It worked out gloriously. But there’s other things that you can do too. I add pictures to family search, add pictures to family search that’s family history. Some people approach social media as family history. Great. Be open to all the ways that this can manifest. There’s apps on your phones now, if it’s in your phone is it still a journal? It absolutely is. Photo books don’t limit it just to be like, oh, am I writing these things down? I’m sure you can be better than me. But also recognize that I’m, it doesn’t have to just look like that. There’s a myriad of ways that this can look, that you can follow the Savior’s counsel in this. And we’re all grateful for this. I’m grateful for John Whitmer’s journal, the history that he wrote by commandment. There’s crosses out. He like goes through and edits after he leaves the church, he goes back and edits some things. He’s like, oh, this is how I feel about it now. Well, I can still learn from that experience too.

  32:17 Keep it continually. I love in verse four, this thought. He says, it shall be given him inasmuch as he is faithful. Interesting notation there to John, knowing who’s receiving this by the Holy Ghost, by the Comforter. The Spirit will help and write down those things. How much would you guys give? I would love you guys mentioned that I’m a descendant of Thomas E. Ricks. I love Thomas E. Ricks helped found a number of cities, Cardston, Logan, Vegas on a mission and Rexburg. I want to know the details of what did you do every day. If you’re like, people would be bored of that. Yeah, they might be, but some won’t.

Hank Smith: 32:53 Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 32:54 And let know them, like now that I love Thomas E. I love all my ancestors. I would love to know what you did every day. Write it down. Sometimes we have a tendency to not think we’re very spectacular and we’re not. But we have people that love us, that think we are. We have people that love us. My mom, man, she thought I was amazing. Wonderful. My wife and kids think I’m amazing and they care. So jot down your thoughts as unspectacular as you might be.

Hank Smith: 33:24 John, I know you have some videos of your dad. You like to show your kids because they didn’t know him, at least some of them.

John Bytheway: 33:30 Right. Four of my children who were born after my dad passed, we thankfully have his autobiography, which he just started jotting down on a yellow pad one day and we have those pictures. When Danny was talking there, I thought about the Memories app, the family history thing. You just push the button. Plus you can put audio on there. I just recently got to speak at Roots Tech and I mentioned this. I would love to hear my mom as a 16-year-old talking to her future children. Well, any 16-year-old can do that right now. Can push plus on the app and record audio. Hi, one day. It’s made family history a lot easier.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 34:11 Let’s keep plugging family history. It invites a spirit into our life that cannot be replicated and the promised blessings that come from it cannot be replicated. My mom passed away right after my mission. I was 21. Heartbreaking. My wife never met her. My kids didn’t meet her and my brother, this was probably about a year ago, my brother sent me an audio file and I’m embarrassed to say this, I’m saddened to say this. I started listening to the audio file my brother sent and I was like, who is this? I’m like, this is so familiar. Who is this? It was my mom speaking at my brother’s either farewell or homecoming talk. Been 20 years that I forgot her voice. Heartbreaking. We have the technology now. Take these moments. It takes moments. It’s so easy. And it is in the Memories app, but it’s also in the Family Search app. You press the plus button, ask your local temple and family history consultant, help them use and use these gifts that they’ve been given, like we talked about in section 46 and bless the lives of so many.

Hank Smith: 35:18 If you were born in the 1900s and don’t know what an app is, I’m certain you have someone born after 2000 who can show you what an app is and how it works.

John Bytheway: 35:28 When your identity starts stretching to your whole family, I think it gives you a power and a strength. You’re part of a legacy. When I feel connected to my dads and my grandpas and my mom and my grandmas and all of them, it feels like I’ve got more of a mission and a purpose than without knowing, you know that, and that’s why I think family history has such a benefit for every teenager even to say, hey, this is part of me. I love the idea.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 36:02 I’m teaching a Presidents of the church class this semester. In love with it. And I want to share with you guys some numbers on this. I’m so glad John brought up Family Search and this app. President Kimball, section 138 gets put into the Doctrine & Covenants. In 1977, the Family History Library visitors increased from 2000 a day to 3,500 a day, which is amazing. Extraction work, so what we call indexing, and if you don’t have the Get Involved app too, get the Get Involved app. It’s one of the most glorious purposes for AI.

John Bytheway: 36:36 AI does it instead of… Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 36:39 Yes. Oh, it’s easy and slick and it’s amazing what’s happened. Okay, so for extraction work from 1921 to 2006, think about that number here. 1921 to 2006. 85 years resulted in 900 million names added to a genealogical record. That’s amazing. So average 10.5 million a year. Indexing replaces extraction in 2006.

  37:04 From 2006 to 2013 over 1 billion names were indexed. That’s amazing. 900 million in 85 years. And then 2006 to 2013. 1 billion names. A million names per day. That’s amazing. Are you ready? I just got the email from Family Search. Family Search if you are listening, some people read the emails and we love them, so keep sending them. We love them because of technology. In 2024, just in 2024, 1.7 billion searchable names were added from historical records.

John Bytheway: 37:40 Hastening the work.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 37:42 1.7 billion. Remember 2006 to 2013 was 1 billion and that was, that blew the previous 85 years out of the water. Utilize this, utilize this, please. Everybody get the Get Involved app. If you don’t have the Family Search app, get the Family Search app and engage in this. Spend some of your time. What if everybody spent 10 minutes of their day before they went to their silly apps?

  38:04 And I’m not anti apps. You do your apps, do whatever you want. Do your games. I love to play Scrabble with my sister, right? I love it. I lose to her. I’m never happier losing to anybody than I am to my sister. But before I do that, what if I did 10 minutes in one of these apps? I did some tasks. So tasks, if you’re interested, these people index the names and then they get AI again, algorithms start doing what algorithms do and they start checking into those names. They’ll flag your ancestors adding these records. That’s history too. And the Savior wants us to be engaged in this. Keep the church record in history continually. In verse three it says. Continually. Man, we live in the greatest day that’s ever been, ever been. Temples everywhere. You get a temple, you get a temple. 20 temples a conference.

  38:56 It’s amazing.

John Bytheway: 38:57 Tell us what the Get Involved app does.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 39:01 I’ve been doing New Zealand names recently. I don’t know why because I maybe it’s cold in Rexburg and I just want to like think about something somewhere else. I click this and AI starts doing what AI does and I don’t get how, I don’t know but this document, there’s a name. It says Robert. I click match. Reynolds. Match. Lynn. Match. I just indexed the name and now an algorithm will take that name and look through all of the family records that it has and it’ll show up as a task. A task on your app. So I’m in my family search app. They have this beautiful little checkbox down there that says tasks. And if I click on that, there’s this beautiful, wonderful soul named Jane Henderson. I click on the blue circle. Someone did the Scotland Civil Registration records. I click on it and it says, Hey, is this your person? I click match. Instantly it’s attached. It’s amazing. Something cool about the Get Involved app too is once you’ve done this, I did the same thing. I told my daughter if she did 20,000 names, I’d get her Thai food and she did it on the bus. She knocked it out like a week or two. I was like, oh, okay. We’re going to get Thai food. Mangoes and sticky rice delivers every time.

  40:17 Just pop on here in this app that some amazing, it’ll show me the temples that the people I’ve indexed have had worked, done in. I indexed a name named Josh Allen, and on July 21st, his name was taken to Saratoga Springs Utah Temple and did work for, that’s amazing. I click, there’s people, 370 people that I’ve indexed has had work done in the temple.

John Bytheway: 40:44 I’m hearing President Nelson saying, anytime you do anything that helps anyone on either side of the veil take a step closer to receive the essential baptismal covenants and temple covenants you are helping to gather Israel. During followHIM we just watch Danny Gather Israel. There it is.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 41:05 We live in the best day ever.

Hank Smith: 41:08 Oh, that’s fantastic. Danny, we have loved today and we have one section left. What do you want to do with section 48?

Prof. Danny Ricks: 41:18 There’s a line in here. Verse three. Inasmuch as you have not lands, let them buy for the present time in those regions roundabout as seemeth them good. He says that line three times in the Doctrine and Covenants. As seemeth them good. Because God really lets you use your agency.

John Bytheway: 41:36 That’s an agency line. Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 41:38 Like do what you want to do. I’ve blessed you with intelligence. I’ve blessed you with experience. Sometimes we’re paralyzed with fear that we’re going to do something that God doesn’t want us to do. When really God, like, listen, what do I major in? What do I major in? Major in what you want to major in. God can exalt plumbers. God can exalt teachers. God can exalt doctors. Do what you want. Do whatever seemeth good to you. We get paralyzed. What if I make a mistake? Just do something and really like I can exalt you doing lots of things. Now, if it’s going to affect your salvation, then yeah, where should I live? Man, I can exalt you in Boise. I can exalt you in Ghana. I can exalt you in Australia. I can exalt you. All these places go where we feel like, and it’s so dangerous when we have this guess the mind of the teacher approach with God. I’m afraid to do anything. Like what if I raise my hand and I don’t give what the teacher wants when really he is like, man, do what you want to. As long as it’s good, you’re aligned with proper principles. You’re within those boundaries that we talked about earlier in this section. Man, live your life. Be happy.

Hank Smith: 42:47 Be happy. It’s the brother of Jared. Bring me an idea. I’ll make it work.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 42:51 Move forward. We’re already an anxiety filled generation. Then throw on, oh, don’t mess up God’s plan for me. Sheesh. It’s God’s plan. Danny Ricks isn’t going to thwart like what standard of truth right now. Like persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, but you make one bad choice when you’re 21 and oh, that’s what’s going to thwart God. Uh, I think he’s okay. Learn. Make good choices founded in correct principles. Realize that not as many things are of salvific nature as you think they are. Keep the commandments, keep your covenants. Pray to God

Hank Smith: 43:31 Repent every day.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 43:32 And every day. Be okay as seemeth you good. Which lands should I buy? I don’t care. It’s dirt. God’s like it’s dirt. It’s all mine. And he has this lens of eternity. We worry about all these things that have such a temporal like that have expiration dates and we’re talking to a God that has none. Eternal worlds without end. And we’re like, I don’t know. Listen, relax as seemeth me good. Elder Bednar. Be a good boy. Be a good girl. Keep commandments. You’re fine. Relax.

Hank Smith: 44:03 Move forward. The Lord will guide you. The Lord will bless you. Yep. Yeah, I like that.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 44:07 Yeah. Do the best you can. He says in verse four, save all the money that you can. I love that. It’s all that you can. It’s like this is it’s almost like a casual revelation. Do what you can. I’ll compensate. Think about Jesus feeding the 5,000. I’m going to feed everybody. They’re like, oh, I can just see them looking in the knapsack being like, what on earth. Do we don’t have… feed everybody? We’ve got a couple loaves, couple fishes. Do we think that Jesus is like, oh, thank goodness you said that many loaves. If there had been one less loaf, I would’ve only been able to do 4,000.

Hank Smith: 44:37 Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 44:37 No trust in an omniscient and omnipotent God trust in him. Man.

John Bytheway: 44:48 I feel sick, but, and and, but if I don’t go to class today, maybe my wife is in there and I’ll mess up my whole eternal…

Hank Smith: 44:55 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 44:56 thing if I don’t go to class tonight.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 44:58 Right. The mental gymnastics that we worry about in these, these poor souls, all of them young adults, youth. Oh man, what if I mess this up? Relax. And really it goes back to true doctrine understood.

John Bytheway: 45:11 Mm-hmm.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 45:11 Is Jesus who you’re reading in scripture that he is?

John Bytheway: 45:15 Yeah.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 45:15 Is God who God is? Relax. Take a deep breath as seemeth me good. As seemeth them good. Do what you need to. Yeah. You’re fine. Jesus says, I am able to do my work. Yeah. And all of these big questions, surprisingly, Elder Uchtdorf talked about like, and President Kimball soulmates is a garbage thought. What if I miss soulmates? Choose someone that keeps their covenants and you like being around. You’ll have a great ride. You’ll have a great ride.  Elder Uchtdorf, right? If Harriet had chose someone else, he’s like, I’d be sad, but she’d be keeping covenants here. I’d be keeping covenants here now. Thank goodness it didn’t work. You know, we’re grateful that it works out how it works out. Keep those covenants that you have made with God and you’re going to be fine.

Hank Smith: 46:00 And repent when you don’t.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 46:01 Repent every day and then rejoice in it. Joy of daily repentance. Get used to messing up. You’re going to be fine.

Hank Smith: 46:08 I love it. I spend a lot of time with young people. Both of you do as well. That is a prevalent fear. What if I don’t do what God wants me to do? What if I go to the wrong college? What if I get the wrong degree, the wrong career? Marry the wrong person? therefore, I will do nothing. That’s a Satanic tool. What if you mess it up? What if you mess it up when I love what you’re saying, Danny, look who’s on your side. You’re not going to mess this up. He’s not going to go, ah, did not see that one coming. Uhoh. We are in trouble.

Prof. Danny Ricks: 46:39 I wonder how long it’ll be in the eternities when I look at my sweetheart and I’ll be like, what did I do for a living? I don’t know, but I, who cares? Because I’ve become like Him. Yeah. I’m in the celestial kingdom with my family, with my loved ones, with God. It’s all good. Just keep learning. The purpose of this life is to learn and grow.

John Bytheway: 46:57 One of the things that I love about the Restoration is not only, okay, now we know there’s a God, the first vision, but now we find out what kind of being he is. We find out predestination. Mm-mm. Determinism. Mm-mm. We find out what he’s really like. We find out how merciful he is. We find out how patient he is. We find out how many times he says, Joseph, thy sins are forgiven thee. I’m so grateful that not only he’s real and he lives, but what kind of being is he? Oh. We get to explore that through the rest of the Doctrine & Covenants and through the rest, the rest of our lives. You know?

Hank Smith: 47:32 Yeah. Elder Kearon he wants joy for you.

John Bytheway: 47:34 He’s in relentless pursuit of you too. Yeah.

Hank Smith: 47:38 He’s not hiding the right answers in some haystack somewhere. Danny, before we let you go, can I ask you a question? Tell us how a boy who grows up on a big farm in Idaho becomes what you’ve become. And then second, there may be a narrative out there for some of our listeners that, oh man, if you really get to know the history of the church, you’re going to lose your testimony. Yet you’re someone who’s, you’ve studied the history of the church quite a bit and it doesn’t seem to have hurt your testimony. It seems to have helped it. So just walk us through maybe a little bit of your life and how you feel about the restoration. Also, we need to know the name of your sister that keeps beating you at Scrabble. We want to…

Prof. Danny Ricks: 48:20 Her name is Maria. She is as sweet as she is good at Scrabble. Maria Cottle. Maria Cottle. Yeah.

Hank Smith: 48:29 All right. Maria, thank you for humbling Danny. Danny, what do you think about the restoration and what it’s done for you?

Prof. Danny Ricks: 48:37 Everything President J. Reuben Clark, the longitude and latitude of our testimonies of our lives need to be that Jesus is the Christ. His resurrection’s real. He is risen. He is risen. Because of that, everything else is an appendage to that. Jesus is the king of kings, Lord of lords. My Redeemer, my Savior, he is the only begotten of the Father. He is the Son of God, and he has redeemed my soul. He’s rescued me, so who cares about anything else? For this dispensation he called a boy named Joseph Smith. He talked with him. He is a prophet. I don’t have problems with church history. If anything, it makes me feel like I fit in. I’m messy. People will find faults with Joseph. Listen, if Joseph pulls out his resume and I pull out my resume, I know who I’d hire. Like, give me a break. I’m grateful for the restoration.

  49:39 Really, truly, like everything good in my life has come because God restored a beautiful doctrine or principle through the prophet Joseph. The peace that I have, the joy that I can feel in good times because of Jesus Christ. All bad times can be okay, and all good times are sweeter because there’s an eternal lens to it. But though I only know that because of the restoration of truth through prophet Joseph, that’s why we know it. The plan of salvation. Are you kidding me? Heart soars. Do you read Section 76? Mercy. Heart soars. I love the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Hank Smith: 50:22 John, what a great day. I am so happy that I received all these recommendations, starting with Julie Lewis, my primary president, all the way through a bunch of teachers up at BYU Idaho, and they said, have you not talked to Danny Ricks? What a day. So much.

John Bytheway: 50:38 What a great day.

Hank Smith: 50:39 With that, we want to thank brother Danny Ricks for teaching us today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors David and Verla Sorensen, and every episode we remember our founder. He would’ve loved this, John. He would’ve. He would’ve loved Danny’s enthusiasm.

John Bytheway: 50:57 He would’ve loved the fire. Yeah, he’s like that.

Hank Smith: 50:59 Absolutely like that. We remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. We hope you’ll join us next week. We’re actually going to talk about those shakers Danny mentioned next week on followHIM. Thank you for joining us on today’s episode. Do you or someone you know speak Spanish, Portuguese, or French? You can now watch and listen to our podcast in those languages. Links are in the description below. Today’s show notes and transcript are on our website. FollowHIM.co. That’s followHIM co. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilson, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kabwika, and Annabelle Sorensen.