Hank Smith: 00:04 Hello my friends. Welcome to another FollowHIM Favorites where John Bytheway and I, Hank Smith take a look at this week’s lesson and a single question from this week’s Come Follow Me. John, this question comes up time and time again for me, and I’m sure it has for you. Did Jesus need Judas to do what he did? Right? So was he foreordained to do something evil? How do you answer that question?

John Bytheway: 00:30 I think the Lord knew it would happen, but did he foreordain to do it? I think we have to think there was agency involved and that he chose to do what he did. We know that later on he seems to have regretted it, tried to give the money back and everything. So I think the Lord in His wisdom knew what would happen, but I wouldn’t want to say he forced him or foreordained him to do it. How do you answer that, Hank?

Hank Smith: 01:00 I think so too, John. I think you’re right on. Agency is an eternal principle-

John Bytheway: 01:04 Principle.

Hank Smith: 01:04 … pillar. President Nelson saying that agency is a gift almost just as precious as life itself. So I would say no, that he doesn’t have to do what he does. Now, Jesus, because he could easily just turn himself in. He could go from the Garden of Gethsemane, walk into Jerusalem, go to the house of Caiaphas and just say, “Are you looking for me?” And it would continue. The story would continue exactly the way it played out. I think you’re also right that God’s omniscience is there. He knows he’s going to do it. I think Judas, like all of us has a personal plan, a personal relationship with God that he’s got to work out.

John Bytheway: 01:45 If we’re comfortable with the idea of prophecy, we have to be comfortable with the idea that God knows what’s going to happen. Where we get messed up is we’re trying so hard to think, well, if he knows what’s going to happen, is he forcing it to happen? And that’s where we get kind of a headache. But no, his knowledge of what is going to happen does not force us to do things.

Hank Smith: 02:07 Absolutely.

John Bytheway: 02:07 And someday maybe we’ll understand how he can be omniscient that way, but we still have free will and I love what you said. Yeah. It’s a huge thing, agency.

Hank Smith: 02:17 Agency, absolutely. And the question I think that comes up for me as I read this account is, man, someone in that kind of position and standing used their agency to do something horrible. And that should be a warning to all of us, to use your agency carefully and to think through your decisions.

John Bytheway: 02:35 And kind of an endure to the end thing too, because up to that point, he was an apostle and we will let God use his omniscience and his being. He can read everybody’s heart. Yeah, we want to stay in a meek place. I think what you’re leading to Hank is when Jesus says, “One of you will betray me,” and what’s the question all of them ask? It’s Matthew 26:22, what do they all say?

Hank Smith: 03:00 Instead of pointing to everyone in the group saying, “I bet it’s him. I bet it’s him.” They all say, “Lord, is it I? Is it me?”

John Bytheway: 03:07 Yeah. Which is a great meekness of, oh, could I? And I think in marriage, in our interpersonal relationships, did I do something to hurt your feelings? Did I do that? I’m so sorry. There’s a wonderful lesson from those three words.

Hank Smith: 03:22 Lord, yeah, is it I? Is it I? So instead of worrying about Judas, which I can understand the curiosity, let’s focus in on our own agency and what we’re doing to make sure that we’re staying on the right side of the line.

John Bytheway: 03:38 And have that meek attitude. Any of us can be tempted and let’s try to be where we’re supposed to be, doing what we’re supposed to be doing, asking for help repenting every day. Try to stay on that covenant path we’ve heard so much about.

Hank Smith: 03:49 Absolutely. And be listening. If Judas just would’ve been listening, Lord, is it I? Wait, I think he’s talking about me. I think I’m in the wrong place here. Right. Having that, like you said, that meek, humble attitude goes a long way.

John Bytheway: 04:02 That idea of could that happen to me? I remember hearing President Hinckley talk about a man who served in the presidency of this church, and I’ve learned later it was J. Reuben Clark, so it’s a long time ago, but his daughter was going out on a date or something and he said something like, remember who you are. And she said, “Daddy, don’t you trust me.” This is the best answer I have ever heard to that question. Remember the first presidency, J. Reuben Clark looked at her and said, “I don’t entirely trust myself. One never gets too old or too high in the church that the adversary gives up on him.” Isn’t that a great answer?

Hank Smith: 04:37 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 04:38 I’ve got to be meek and know I can be tempted too, so I don’t entirely trust myself. The adversary’s not going to give up on me either.

Hank Smith: 04:45 Yeah. Well, thanks for joining us for FollowHIM Favorites. Please join us on our full podcast. It’s called FollowHIM. You can get it wherever you get your podcast. This week we’re with Dr. Camille Olson. She is fantastic. You’re going to love what she has to say and then join us again for another FollowHIM Favorites.