Hank Smith:                      00:00:00             Coming up in this episode on followHIM.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:00:03             I can’t do it by myself. It’s impossible. We can’t stress this enough. It has less to do with how bad you are at this and more to do with how great He is. Jesus Christ is mighty to save. He’s good at saving. It isn’t about me, it’s about me yoking to Jesus. That’s why it’s gonna be okay.

Hank Smith:                      00:00:27             Hello my friends. Welcome to another episode of followHIM. My name’s Hank Smith. I’m your host. I’m here with my weepy co-host John Bytheway. John, I was reading Moses chapter seven. It talks about how the Lord weeps and I thought of you because John, I’ve known you for a long time and as you’re getting a little older, you’re not old, but you’re older than you were when I met you, you cry more easily.

John Bytheway:               00:00:53             That’s the only thing I can ascribe it to is my advanced years. I used to really guard against that because I didn’t want kids to think whoever cries is the most spiritual.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:03             Right?

John Bytheway:               00:01:04             Which is not true. And you’ll notice that some even in general conference, some of our church leaders get weepy, some never have.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:12             John. Even when you talk about the Andy Griffith show, I’ve seen you tear up.

John Bytheway:               00:01:15             Something about Barney Fife. Right? Alright. Everybody clear out there’s gonna be trouble, right?

Hank Smith:                      00:01:22             Yeah. Barney would be weeping, right? He’d be like, oh yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:01:27             Oh, don’t you get weepy. If you do I’m a goner. Yeah. ’cause he was weepy on the show. He would say, if Thelma Lou or Aunt Bea started to cry, he would say, don’t you start. I’m a goner.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:37             John, you and I are both so excited today to have Brother Danny Ricks back with us. He joined us last year for the first time. We loved it. Danny, welcome back to followHIM.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:01:48             So good to be with you boys.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:50             I need to thank my friend Julie Lewis for introducing me to Danny Ricks. It has been a blessing to my life, to John’s life and to all of our listeners.

John Bytheway:               00:01:59             Absolutely.

Hank Smith:                      00:02:00             John, I know you love this story. Moses chapter seven, one chapter today, Enoch. Scripture that the prophet Joseph Smith gave to us. It’s one of those, John, how many times have I said it, if he just gives us this, he’s a prophet, but this is one of how many?

John Bytheway:               00:02:18             Just this little hint into the nature of God that he’s not detached or aloof but that he weeps for us. It’s like, wait, what? What? And I mean Enoch reacts the same way when he sees this God who weeps. Yeah. It’ll be fun to talk this over with you guys.

Hank Smith:                      00:02:38             Danny, as you’ve been looking at this. I remember when you and I talked about you coming on for this chapter. You were really excited. What are you looking forward to today?

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:02:46             I love Enoch. Chapter six, he’s a wild man. I resonate with that a little bit. There’s a place for the wild men in God’s kingdom. So I love Enoch. I’m excited to be in this chapter. It’s Joseph Smith translation. Right. This chapter doesn’t have as much Genesis roots. Remember we get what we have about Enoch from four verses in Genesis. Genesis 5:21 through 24 I believe. And then we get, I think it’s about a hundred. We have about a hundred verses compared to the four that the rest of the world has. I love what you said Hank. So grateful for modern day revelation. So grateful for the book of Moses.

Hank Smith:                      00:03:27             Danny, I’m excited to read through this with you. If for nothing else then your energy. John, I’ve quoted this to you before. This is Elder Maxwell. Part of what may be lacking at times in the decent teacher is a refreshing personal excitement over the gospel, which could prove highly contagious. Isn’t that beautiful? A personal excitement over the gospel And Danny brings that. He’s genuinely excited about the information and that’s what makes it so fun. Alright John, what do we know about Danny? He was here last time.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:04:02             Easy John, focus on the good.

John Bytheway:               00:04:06             Sometimes Hank, we get a bio that’s written by the person themselves and I like this one. He’s a devoted husband to his wonderful wife, proud father of five great kids with a deep interest in church history and world religions. He’s passionate about exploring and understanding the diverse spiritual traditions that shape the world. Where are you teaching right now Danny?

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:04:29             Professor of Religion at BYU Idaho in Rexburg.

Hank Smith:                      00:04:33             It’s the Celestial Kingdom. What we’ve heard.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:04:35             Listen, I admit I am biased but I truly believe that it is the greatest university on the face of this earth.

John Bytheway:               00:04:43             Who knew the celestial kingdom could be so cold.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:04:45             It’s the wind. It’s the wind. As soon as Jesus comes, the wind will get turned off and everybody will be singing a different tune.

Hank Smith:                      00:04:55             We’ve had President and Sister Meredith on the show with us, so if they’re listening they would love what you just said Danny. I think they would agree a hundred percent.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:05:04             We love the Merediths. It’s hard to not love the Merediths.

Hank Smith:                      00:05:06             Yeah. Danny, I just have a quick question. Tell us where you grew up. Tell us about your sweet wife. We didn’t get to talk about this last time.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:05:13             Okay, so I grew up in Felt, Idaho amidst the best of the best. Yeah. It’s by squirrel and Drummond if you’re familiar, Squirrel then Drummond.

Hank Smith:                      00:05:22             Of course it’s…

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:05:22             If you know where Drummond is, we probably need to talk ’cause Drummond’s famous ’cause the only thing there is a bar, it goes Ashton, Squirrel, Drummond, Felt. But I was in the suburbs of Felt. Potatoes, wheat, and feed barley, pretty side of the Tetons.

Hank Smith:                      00:05:40             And that’s where you met my friend Julie Durtschi.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:05:44             Yeah. She’s amazing.

Hank Smith:                      00:05:45             And then tell us about your wife. Where’s she from?

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:05:48             She is the best thing that ever came outta Mapleton, Utah. Her maiden name is Ercanbrack, wonderful family. Angela Ercanbrack. Now Ricks, thank goodness 20 plus years now. But when she told me her last name, I remember nodding and I was like, yeah, yeah. I met her in a class at BYU Idaho. Actually the next day we had class, I actually went, got there early and went and checked the class role and wrote her name down ’cause I didn’t want to ask again, you know, and I’m like I just need to write it down and work through it.

Hank Smith:                      00:06:21             Are you like, hmm? Is that French? No wonder you love BYU Idaho. Everything good in your life is

John Bytheway:               00:06:29             Good things happen there.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:06:30             Truth.

Hank Smith:                      00:06:30             It’s life changing. It’s a waters of Mormon.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:06:36             That’s when I got into a Book of Mormon class. That’s when things started clicking. It’s when I really developed a relationship with my Savior. I love that place.

Hank Smith:                      00:06:45             Yeah. I’m sure they love you there too. Let’s jump in to the Come, Follow Me manual, the Lord called his people Zion. Only one chapter to look at today, Moses chapter seven. Throughout history people have tried to achieve what Enoch and his people accomplished. Building an ideal society where there is no poverty or violence. As God’s people we share this desire, we call it building Zion and it includes in addition to caring for people in need and promoting peace, making covenants, dwelling together in righteousness and becoming one with each other and with Jesus Christ the King of Zion. If the world, your community or your family isn’t quite what you want it to be, it’s helpful to ask how did Enoch and his people do it? How did they become of one heart and one mind despite the contention around them? Among the many details, Moses chapter seven gives us about Zion a particularly valuable one for Latter-day Saints might be this, Zion is not just a city, it is a condition of the heart and spirit. Zion, as the Lord has taught, is the pure in heart. So perhaps the best way to build Zion is to start in our own hearts and homes. I love it and I love this will be a connection to last year. John, with all the talk about building Zion, I’m sure this is what got Joseph Smith thinking of it. Danny, with that, what do you wanna do? Where do you wanna start?

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:08:05             Let’s start some broader context first. It’s Joseph Smith Translation Genesis. Moses seven is not as connected in with the Genesis 5:21 through 24 springboard into it. This is gravy stuff. This is revelation to the prophet Joseph. One of the fascinating things is that this chapter that we’re studying today was translated in June and July of 1830. The church is only a few months old and God’s already downloading scripture to the prophet Joseph brand new church and they’re receiving this. They’re getting persecuted. A previous portion, Joseph states that the book of Moses, the part that he was translating is that precious morsel was given to us by God, a precious morsel. That’s Moses seven. It is precious. It really is a continuation of last week’s Come, Follow Me with Moses Six. Remember we don’t have chapter headings and verses. I think in this, I wanna say Elder Talmage early 1900s, 1902, 1903.

                                           00:09:09             Really it’s the continuation of Moses six continuation of Moses because of those four verses and revelation from God to Joseph. We have four verses on Enoch that gets springboarded into about a hundred verses. Enoch’s only mentioned a couple of times in scripture, those four verses in Old Testament and then he’s mentioned in the book of Luke, Hebrews and Jude and one of those is actually referencing an apocryphal writing of Enoch. We walk a path of diamonds with what we have on Enoch. We forget how blessed we are really like we are bloom and blessed because of what we have in the transformation that can happen is when we study this. I love the heading for, I don’t know who writes those things for the Come, Follow Me, but they’re very good.

Hank Smith:                      00:09:58             They’re amazing. Yeah.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:10:01             It’s gonna help us be Zion and one with God. It will. This chapter’s the real deal.

Hank Smith:                      00:10:06             Let’s get started. We’ve got what, almost 70 verses?

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:10:09             Verse one, it came to pass that Enoch continued his speech, continued from Moses 6, so we’re continuing on, next part. Behold, our father Adam taught these things and many have believed. This is interesting because we love hymn 301 so much. We’re like, oh yeah, I’m a child of God. I’m a child of God and we think this is a child of God reference when it’s actually not. He says, and many have believed and become the sons of God. They’ve become the sons of God. So we’re actually talking a title, remember President Nelson teaching us those three titles to really anchor into child of God of course, transformative truth. But equal to is child of the covenant. I’m a fallen being because of the Fall I am separated from God to quote the Book of Mormon, right? It’s as if I am dead, cannot inherit, then something has to change.

                                           00:11:02             How do I do this? I need to come into the family of God. I’ve gotta get into the family of God, that child of the covenant and then the third one of course, disciple of Christ. When Enoch starts talking and preaching here, right, the wild man that he is from chapter six. He goes, no, they’re accepting it. People are accepting Jehovah. They’re accepting the gospel of Jesus and have become once again sons and daughters of God. There’s a number of things and hurdles that get in the way of us becoming quote unquote Zion. One of them is that we think that it’s something that God does to us. God swishes a wand, there’s no wand he’s not gonna make me Zion. I become Zion. I become Zion by becoming a son or daughter of God. In fact, you read it. The heading was quoting verse 18. In fact, I’ll jump there and then we’ll jump back to verse one. If you look at verse 18, and the Lord called his people Zion because they were of one heart and one mind and dwelt in righteousness and there were no poor among them. That word because is super important. He didn’t call them Zion because he made them that, He called them Zion because they were. They used their agency to become Zion. So God calls them Zion, we get to use our agency to make and then keep covenants.

Hank Smith:                      00:12:24             This may be a little bit of an unorthodox thought. I wonder sometimes if we’re waiting for the Lord to come and he’s waiting for us right here we are waiting for the Second Coming. He’s like, I’m ready. I’m ready. You build it, I will be there. You gotta build Zion first. I just wonder who’s gonna move first. Him or us. I think it’s gonna be us. He’ll wait us out. I know no man knows the day of his coming, but I wonder if that’s why he’s saying, hey, no one knows when you’re actually gonna take this seriously and build Zion.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:12:53             The impetus is upon us. There’s a quote from Elder Holland. Oh, president Holland. Mercy. I miss him already.

Hank Smith:                      00:13:00             Oh man, don’t, yeah.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:13:01             I have a hard time picturing it without him.

Hank Smith:                      00:13:06             We’ve never had to.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:13:08             Yeah,

Hank Smith:                      00:13:08             Or at least not for me. He was there when I first looked at those pictures.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:13:13             Church news, February 17th, 2007, Elder Holland says this, something is going to be asked of this dispensation that’s never been asked before. Those of this dispensation must be ready to present the Church of the Lamb to the Lamb and when that happens, we must be looking and acting like His Church. We do it through our agency, but how do we do that? How do I become like Jesus? By covenanting with him and then he helps me. He endows me with power from on high to be able to do it. I have a hard time being obedient. I want to be and I’m striving to be. He’s gonna endow me with power to be obedient. He’s gonna endow me with power to be able to sacrifice. He’s going to endow me with power to be able to love God and love my neighbor. He’s gonna endow me with power to be pure, to be chaste and pure. He’s gonna endow me with power. How can I consecrate my time, talents, means, everything? He’s gonna help me, but we have to do it. There’s no wand. There’s no wand that he poofs and makes us Zion. I’m not surprised whatsoever. We shouldn’t be surprised either that there’s covenant conversation and covenant language right off in verse one. You have to become the sons and daughters of God.

John Bytheway:               00:14:26             I remember as a kid, I always thought, wait, I thought we were all children of God. There’s a pedigree chart fact that we’re sons and daughters of God and then there’s a, the quality of behaving like it, I guess or acting like it. You can become the sons of God and we hear that in the New Testament too.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:14:43             By far the scriptural emphasis is on child of the covenant by far and that doesn’t shortchange the truth and the power behind that title. Number one, that you’re a son and daughter of God, that you have heavenly parents. Please don’t get me wrong, that is dialed in truth, in fact and transformative, but maybe the most misunderstood doctrine in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, let alone the world is the Fall. Yes, I am a son and daughter of God, but I’m also fallen. Jesus Christ’s atonement redeems me from the Fall. If you put in the word redeemed in the Book of Mormon, you’ll be surprised how many times the next part from the Fall, it’s so often the next connection is I’m in a pickle. I am separate, I’m out. Something has to change and we’re coming in. The scriptural emphasis is on this covenant making. Sometimes I think that we can disconnect that word because it becomes such good word, right? Powerful word much like a lot of other words that we accidentally and inadvertently disassociate from Jesus. No, I’m making covenants with God. Covenants for covenant’s sakes doesn’t do me any good, but covenants with God can change me and transform me if I want to be Zion. If we’re gonna have in our lives what Moses and his people have, it has to come through covenants. That’s the only way.

Hank Smith:                      00:16:11             Both of you will know this great thought from President Benson. He says, no one adequately and properly knows why he and we can say or she needs Christ. Until that person understands and accepts the doctrine of the Fall and its effect upon all mankind. It’s maybe not the most like wow statement, but it is crucial to understanding where you’re teaching someone about Jesus and they’re just not really buying in. They’re like, I love Jesus. Yeah, Jesus is great. No, you don’t understand. Jesus is not great, He’s universal. He’s the Savior of the world. It’s usually not that they don’t understand Jesus, it’s that they don’t understand the Fall. You don’t seek Jesus until you understand the Fall. With my own children I forget to teach that.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:17:02             The depth of someone’s love for Jesus Christ increases exponentially the more they understand the doctrine of the Fall.

Hank Smith:                      00:17:09             That’s beautiful.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:17:10             President Packer, true doctrine understood changes attitudes and behaviors. When we understand the state that we are in, like truly, sometimes when I’ve had conversation with people about this, there’s almost a little pushback. I think because they’re so hyper-focused on Title one, which is generally really good. We want that to be ingrained in all of us ’cause it’s truth that we are sons and daughters of God, but the Fall is no joke. the Fall is no joke. Brigham Young said this, when you think about this term, I don’t think that we generally associate it with this next part, but he said, quote, the plan of salvation or in other words the redemption of fallen beings. When you hear that term plan of salvation, you think, oh yeah, ’cause I have to be redeemed from my fallen state. Enoch’s people are just as fallen as you and me.

                                           00:18:00             We have to make covenants with God, Jesus to Nicodemus, you have to be born of the water and the Spirit. You have to be. You have to be. Yes, you’re a child of God. Nicodemus, yes, you are wonderful. You’re a Pharisee. I’m sure you felt that already, but you if you wanna see the kingdom of God, you have to be born of water and the Spirit. I.e. you have to be born again, i.e. you have to become a child of the covenant and we don’t use this language very much, but look how King Benjamin says it. Mosiah chapter five. In fact, I was teaching a class once, I said this term and a student raised his hand and he goes, it was interesting the qualifier. He said, I’ve served a mission and I’ve never heard that phrase before. I’m like, that’s quite the qualifier.

Hank Smith:                      00:18:43             Okay, wow.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:18:45             He said, then let’s go. This isn’t like some hidden chapter. This isn’t in the Isaiah chapters in 2 Nephi, it’s King Benjamin’s address Mosiah 5:7. He says, and now because of the covenant which ye have made, you shall be called the children of Christ. You are a child of Jesus. We use the term child of the covenant, but King Benjamin and every prophet has zero problem, no, you do need to become a child of Jesus.

Hank Smith:                      00:19:15             This day He hath spiritually begotten you.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:19:22             He called the children of Christ, His sons and daughters. Remember whose name do you take upon you during the sacrament? You take Jesus’s name. I already am a son of God, all your listeners are sons and daughters of God, but I need Jesus to become the father of my new life. King Benjamin. We’ll keep going. We’ll rewind it just a skip back. Be called the children of Christ, his sons and daughters. For behold this day, he hath spiritually begotten you. For ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name. Therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and daughters. Even though Enoch is thousands of years before Jesus is born, they are becoming sons and daughters of Jesus Christ.

Hank Smith:                      00:20:07             Think of baptism then. I’m spiritually begotten. Given birth.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:20:14             That’s the gate and then the path continues in the temple. I even receive a new name because I’m a new creature. I’m a new creature in Jesus Christ.

John Bytheway:               00:20:25             I love the conversation. Our friend, Robert Millet says, I’m paraphrasing, if we just talk about Jesus like our best friend in heaven and we miss the Fall, no no no, we are in trouble. We need help. We need a savior, a redeemer. I love that the Book of Mormon uses the plan of redemption. By far, everybody loves the plan of happiness that’s used once, but plan of redemption. I can’t remember Hank 13 times, 14 times? It’s usually spoken by Alma and the four sons of Mosiah. They use it the most. They needed to be redeemed and they knew it. I love that. He’s our redeemer. We need help. We’re in trouble. And that’s because of the Fall. And sometimes I thought, I shouldn’t say this out loud, but if I could do my mission again, I would’ve taught the Fall better. When people would say, oh, we had this happen in our family or this death or this sickness, I wish I would’ve said, oh, thank you for saying that. Let’s talk about the Fall that brought death and sickness and sadness and sin into the world. Then we can talk about the Redeemer who saves us from the Fall.

Hank Smith:                      00:21:34             2 Nephi 2, 2 Nephi 9. I wish I knew them better when I was younger.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:21:39             And we appropriately focus on the positive view that we have, especially compared to our Christian cousins, right? We understand the Fall drastically different, drastically different than our Christian friends. We do ’cause we see the benefit, we see that it’s a fall forward. Just because it’s a fall forward sometimes we then romanticize it and we’re like, oh no, it’s just, it’s just good. No, I’m damned. You are damned. We’re all like, we are in bad shape.

John Bytheway:               00:22:06             Yeah, we’re in trouble.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:22:07             We’re in bad shape. I have to be redeemed. One of my favorite parables from our Savior, I call it the parable of the strong man. I don’t know what anybody else calls it, but Matthew 12, and it’s interesting, I’ll read this at times with students and they don’t know who’s who in this. Matthew chapter 12 verse 29 and he says, quote or else, how can one enter into a strong man’s house and spoil his goods except he first bind the strong man and then he will spoil his house and you ask them, okay, who’s the strong man?

                                           00:22:39             Anything good we naturally like, oh, it must be Jesus. No, no. Jesus is the thief. Satan’s the strong man. Jesus kicks down the door binds the strong man and then spoils his goods ’cause we’re in such bad shape in Moses seven that we’re gonna get to, it says, no Satan will become your father. If we don’t get redeemed through our savior. If we don’t get redeemed through our savior Jesus Christ, we are in such bad shape and it shouldn’t surprise us again this Zion isn’t something that gets poofed upon us or done to us this way. On a side note in verse one, some people don’t follow. That’s par for the course. If you look at verses 10 through 13, you’re gonna see every aspect of the doctrine of Christ. Verse 10 and the Lord said unto me go to this people saying to them, repent. Verse 11, and he gave unto me a commandment that I should be baptized.

                                           00:23:30             Look down at verse 13, and so great was the faith of Enoch that he led all the people of God. There is no secret gospel. If anyone’s proclaiming or trying to articulate that they have some secret gospel, they’re probably an apostate and run away. There is one way and it is faith in Jesus Christ, repenting with Jesus Christ and then covenanting with God. That’s how we do it. There’s no shortcuts. This is the only true way. John 14:6, I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me. How do you come unto Jesus Christ? Faith in him, repent with him and make covenants with him. Keep it super simple. It’s super simple. That’s how you become Zion. These people didn’t have something that you don’t have. They exercised faith in Jesus. They repented of their sins and they made, and then they kept the covenants that they made with God.

Hank Smith:                      00:24:28             Last year Dr. David Holland was here with us and he said something that just, you know when someone says something that all of a sudden you go, oh yeah, that’s exactly how you would describe it. He said, we all are sons and daughters of God. He said, do you remember John? He said, but it’s different when someone says to you, you know you are your father’s son. Well, of course I am. Of course that’s not what they mean. They don’t mean hey, by the way, that’s your father. You reflect him.

John Bytheway:               00:25:00             Yeah, you’re becoming like that. It’s like what did Jesus say? If you were the children of Abraham, you would do the works of Abraham. So it’s a qualitative thing, not just a pedigree chart like Danny emphasized, they become the sons of God. You’re becoming your father’s son.

Hank Smith:                      00:25:19             Danny, can I read something to you just to back up what you’re saying? 2 Nephi 9, listen to how intense he is about the Fall and the Atonement that both of you know 2 Nephi 9. I mean there’s exclamation points all over the place. O the wisdom of God, his mercy and grace! This is verse eight. If the flesh should rise no more, our spirits must become subject to the angel who fell from the presence of the eternal God and became the devil to rise no more. Our spirits must become like unto him. We will become devils, angels to a devil, shut out of the presence of our God, to remain with the father of lies in misery like unto himself forever. O how great the goodness of our God who prepares a way for our escape from those two monsters. He says awful monster. He talks about these two monsters throughout the chapter, sin and death.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:26:16             I remember being in a Sunday school class when I was young and I think that we teach Satan’s plan poorly a lot and I remember being a rascally teenager and hearing a Sunday school teacher say, and it was almost in like these ominous tones like, and everybody was on the edge of their seat and everybody was like amening. After she said this, she goes, and Satan’s plan was that everyone would make it and then there was like this pause and everyone was like, oh. And I was like, that sounds awesome. I was, I remember thinking, that’s the only way I’m gonna make it. That is not Satan’s plan. You just read Jacob describing Satan’s plan. Satan’s plan is verse nine. Become like unto him, we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of God forever, right? That’s to remain in our fallen state to continue with our conversation, right?

                                           00:27:07             Notice this father term again, in this case you would remain with the father of lies. We get to choose, yes, you’re a daughter of God. Yes, you’re a son of God, but because we’re fallen, you need to choose a father for your new life. You choose Jesus Christ to be the father of your new life through covenants or you can choose Lucifer, the father of lies, and look at the result that you’ll be miserable like unto himself. That’s Satan’s plan, that you’ll worship him forever. He is not into sharing. God’s gonna make you equal to Him in glory, might, and dominion according to section 76, which blows my mind. Satan’s all about himself. Satan never has cared about you. He doesn’t care about you. Let’s not make Satan’s plan what it’s actually not.

Hank Smith:                      00:27:54             Danny, how can we make this clear at this point in the game? It’s if you don’t choose Jesus, this is the default choice. You get one or you get the other. There’s no third door here.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:28:09             That’s one of the reasons that Jesus cries in this chapter. Everyone’s crying in this chapter. Everyone’s crying. Jesus is crying, Enoch’s crying. The world is crying. I’m crying. Your readers and listeners are crying. Everyone cries. Verse 32, and the Lord sent in the Enoch, behold, these thy brethren, they’re the workmanship of my own hands. I gave unto them their knowledge in the day I created them in the Garden of Eden. I gave unto man his agency. He’s like, look what I’ve done. You have knowledge and agency. That’s really all you need. And he says, and unto my brethren have I said and also given commandment, I’m at 33 now that they should love one another. He asks so little, love each other and choose me, their father, again, Jehovah speaking. So choose me. There’s nothing anyone can do. You can curse the sky, curse the heavens. Say you’re not a child of heavenly Father. Doesn’t matter. You are. But here he says that they should choose me, their father. This is Jesus talking. He’s like, no, I’m talking this covenant relationship, but this sad phrase, behold, they’re without affection and they hate their own blood. He’s crying because he knows that they’ll be miserable. He knows the result of choosing not his path is misery.

Hank Smith:                      00:29:34             It’s pretty long term. It’s not, oh, if I don’t choose God, he’s gonna punish me. It’s if I don’t choose God, I chose misery. God didn’t want me to. He’s not gonna, he’s not upset. He is not like, well I’m gonna make you miserable since you didn’t choose me. I think that’s an important distinction that God isn’t saying, well, you did what’s wrong, therefore I’m gonna punish you. It’s I don’t want you to suffer. Come outta there. Gotta get outta that building. It’s coming down.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:30:04             The result of sin will always be sadness. The result of sin will always be sadness. I’ve never had anybody come into the my office when I served as a bishop and be crying because they were obedient. It doesn’t happen. When we sin, we distance ourselves from him. We distance ourselves from the Spirit. We don’t have the fruit of the Spirit, which is peace, love, joy. 41. Look at 41 in chapter seven, and it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Enoch and told Enoch all the doings of the children of men; wherefore Enoch knew, and looked upon their wickedness and their misery and wept. Enoch looks at Jesus and he’s floored that a God that is worlds without end can cry. And he goes, look, they chose misery, they chose it. It’s the result.

John Bytheway:               00:30:55             So heartbreaking, so heartbreaking. We’ve all done it. When you say they chose misery, there it is again. Sometimes we say Moses 1:39 that we talked about a few weeks ago, this is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, kindof is a mission statement or a purpose statement maybe. But then you look at 2 Nephi 2:27, which you quoted, he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself. Another thing that I think is cool is verse 33 that you read, I asked them to love one another and choose me. Is that not the two great commandments right there? Love God with all your heart, might, mind and strength, love thy neighbor as thyself. That’s, in a nutshell, that’s those two, I asked them to do this. They’re without affection. They hate their own blood. Now we’re all gonna get weeping here.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:31:48             Think about our covenants in the temple too. We’ve talked about this covenantal progression, right? Of becoming a child of the covenant, becoming a child of Jesus. In the temple, when you receive your endowment, you make five covenants, obedience, sacrifice, and the third one is law of the gospel, which is loving God and loving your neighbor. He doesn’t tell us to do that because he is bored and wants to make us do things. Or he has this fascination with like, no, I want you to love me. Love me. He wants you to love him and love your neighbor because that’s the only way that you actually will be happy in this life and in the life to come. That’s where true joy comes from, is embodying these. Not just keeping these commandments, but embodying them. Having them become a part of your character.

                                           00:32:30             My mom is the definition of an angel. There’s no one I’ve ever met in my life that loves like she loves. It was palpable. My mom won an award once she was farm wife of the year. This newspaper person came to our farm and said, when you walk in her home, you feel loved. I grew up with the, in different ways, two greatest examples of Christians that you possibly could have. My mom who loved and she was 4’10”, all 4’10” of her. She was just powerful. My dad had challenges. He had challenges. He had some mental health challenges. My mom died when she was 52. I was 21. My dad actually took his life seven, eight years ago. Mental health challenges. Then you throw in mental health challenges with Vietnam. So my dad was tough. To his credit though, showed love like differently. Like people would come to our house, they loved everyone. Like it did not matter who you were, what you looked like.

                                           00:33:32             I remember going with my parents to bail people out of jail. I remember like we’d have hitchhikers live at our house for weeks. This guy named Dave was living with us. All of a sudden, Dave’s wearing my brother’s sweater. My brother goes up to my dad. He’s like, dad, Dave’s got into my clothes. Dave is wearing my clothes dad, he’s wearing my sweater. And my dad’s comment to him was, it looks good on him. I wasn’t spiritually inclined. It wasn’t that there were opportunities around me. In fact, they were modeled. The people in my home ward, they are the best human beings. I was joking with a friend once about just some of the stories that we used to have. There weren’t a multitude of return missionaries though. It was just people that were farmers and they were just trying their best. In fact, I remember the only thing my mom would ever say is, you’re lucky anyone would be willing to even take you guys, ’cause we were feral.

                                           00:34:30             And if any of them are listening right now, they’re nodding their heads yes. Like it was wild. I don’t know people with high callings, I don’t. I’m sure they’re wonderful, but I don’t need to, ’cause I I know them. I know Bruce Arnold. I know he loved me and I should not have been loved by anyone because of my weaknesses. I, they should have been annoyed. They should have been frustrated. Yet, Bruce Arnold, Gary Robeson, Keith Harris, all of these great souls, Tom Richins, I could go forever with these people that just love me. When I say I found Jesus, that’s because I finally started breathing the air that was around me more than it being introduced to me. The scales that Paul says fell from his eyes, whether that be literally or figuratively or both. I was surrounded by incredible human beings that modeled how to live like Jesus, to love like Jesus. My siblings mercy. They’re good. They’re so good. My wife, are you kidding me? My wife is the greatest human being that I will ever meet on this earth. She is and how she serves and loves and strives. She has this laser-like focus on trying to follow Jesus. It’s easy to be married to somebody like that. Zion becomes Zion because everybody in Zion loves God and loves their neighbor. It’s natural for them. It’s what has become a part of them.

John Bytheway:               00:36:08             Try to imagine that world where people love God and love their neighbor. It’s so simple. But when you take two minutes and ponder that kind of a world, if you left your wallet on the train, well, you’ll get it back. Because everybody loves God and loves their neighbor. You don’t have to worry about all the scam and spam that you get about trying to, identity theft. I mean, none of that happens because people love their neighbor and they love God. You imagine that world. It just, that is heaven, isn’t it? When we love God and love our neighbor, or in other words, that’s Zion.

Hank Smith:                      00:36:44             Yeah, the $2 trillion pornography industry crumbles.

John Bytheway:               00:36:48             Yeah, I love to use that. If everybody, what if everybody kept the law of chastity? What about broken hearts, broken homes? What if everybody kept the word of wisdom? What happens with drunk driving and addiction and the sadness? When you think about how much sense the commandments make and what it’s leading to is this Zion that we’re talking about. It’s simple to understand, harder to do, but it’s incredibly simple. Love God. Love your neighbor.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:37:19             That word hate just resonates in that verse, doesn’t it? You hate your family and it breaks God’s heart. Now, I would say this, I think this is really easy to see in other people. You know, I’m sure as all of our wonderful friends are listening and being like, hmm…

Hank Smith:                      00:37:39             I need to share this with…

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:37:41             Yeah, so and so needs to hear this. If only my brother-in-law, if only this political party or this political party or right? They’re the ones. They’re the ones. We really need to have the mirror emerge and try to see where we might have semblances of that in us. Root it out, give it to God, work through it. Because he calls them Zion because they are this. Like you and I have to keep developing and loving. If you hate any group of people, we’ve been taught so many times, President Oaks, President Nelson, if there’s any of these -isms, racism, sexism, et cetera, if you have that in you, it’s time to get it out. It’s not being a disciple of Christ, it’s not being a child of the covenant. Certainly.

Hank Smith:                      00:38:29             One more scriptural witness. You both will recognize this. The Lord is begging Martin and Joseph, repent. Repent. Or your sufferings be sore. How sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, how hard to bear you know not. Can you hear that, that pleading?

John Bytheway:               00:38:47             I’m trying to save you from this.

Hank Smith:                      00:38:50             Yeah. It’s almost as if someone’s headed towards an eternal waterfall and you’re throwing them a life preserver, and they’re like, no thanks. I don’t think you understand your situation.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:39:04             Let’s go smaller, to the world, certainly. What about in your family? Like if there’s any type of contention, animosity, hatred. We can’t be Zion with it. Three prophets quotes for you. One, President Faust, when there is contention, the Spirit of the Lord will depart regardless of who is at fault. So many times, well like, well they did this though it’s their fault. No, no, no, no. Regardless of who’s at fault, the Spirit will leave. He’s the perfect gentleman. He can’t be where he’s not welcomed and contention does that. Jesus teaches that in 3 Nephi 11, contention is not of me, but is of the devil. Who is the father? Again, another father reference for Satan, the father of contention. President Monson said this quote, anger doesn’t solve anything. It builds nothing, but it can destroy everything. If we’re serious about our covenantal responsibility, what you and I have covenanted to do in making Zion, we have to root this out. It’s really impossible to be one if this is in our hearts.

John Bytheway:               00:40:17             Yeah. President Dallin H. Oaks, the primary reason for the commandment to avoid criticism is to respect the spiritual wellbeing of the criticizer, not the person to whom we would criticize. It’s like, whoa. The primary reason for the commandment to avoid criticism is to protect the spiritual wellbeing of the criticizer. Isn’t that interesting?

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:40:45             I think we have a ways to go on this brethren.

John Bytheway:               00:40:47             Oh, absolutely.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:40:51             I’ve got great news though. I’ve got great news. If anyone right now is listening and they’re like, oh mercy, this isn’t gonna work for me. Everybody take a second and look at verse 21. Look at verse 21. This says, it came to pass that the Lord showed unto Enoch all the inhabitants of the earth and he beheld and lo Zion, in process of time.

John Bytheway:               00:41:10             Thank you for that phrase.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:41:11             Yes. In process of time. And if you’re wondering how long, we’re looking at verse 68 and all the days of Zion, in the days of Enoch were 365 years.

Hank Smith:                      00:41:25             It took a while.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:41:27             Yeah. We’re warming up. I think we’re a little past halftime from when the church was restored. April 6th 1830. If we’re giving ourselves 365, so we just got our hotdog and soda. We got a little ways to go.

Hank Smith:                      00:41:43             It’s tough. John, what did we say last year? Finding Zion. You know the location, Jackson County. That was the easy part. Putting a building up. That’s the easy part. Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:41:57             Is Zion a place? Is it a people? Is it a cause? We talked about all those last year and yeah, this is in process of time. Thank you for that because sometimes things move painfully slow and one of the chapters that kind of throws me up against the wall and beats me up is 1 Corinthians 13. If I could speak with the tongue of men and angels, if I give my body to be burned, I mean if I do all of this and I don’t have charity, you’re nothing. I’m like, whoa. What? And it makes you ask, am I a better person this year than I was last year? I don’t know. But that chapter is, wow. If I had the faith that I could move mountains, but I don’t have charity. Oh man.

Hank Smith:                      00:42:40             Danny you said everyone listening would go, oh, I’m struggling. If there’s anyone out there saying no, I think I’m pretty good. Go grab Beware of pride April, 1989. Here’s just one piece of it. This is manifest in so many ways. President Benson says, such as fault finding, gossiping, backbiting, murmuring, living beyond our means. Envying, coveting, withholding, gratitude and praise that might lift another, being unforgiving and jealous, disobedient, selfishness.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:43:18             It sounded like you were reading my future obituary. I mean, how can I describe him?

Hank Smith:                      00:43:26             Well, I have this talk from 1989. Danny it is pretty discouraging to be honest. I don’t know if I’ll ever be there. It really is a Pearl of Great Price. I’m excited to walk through this with you, Danny. I love your energy, your excitement. It’s contagious. John, you remember, I’ve quoted this to you before, Elder Maxwell. Sometimes what is missing in the good gospel teacher is a contagious sense of enthusiasm.

John Bytheway:               00:43:52             Danny, do you remember Elder Maxwell?

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:43:56             Elder Maxwell, so quick story, and this is embarrassing. I have the distinction of giving one of the worst priesthood blessings in this dispensation. It’ll be in the next volume of Saints when they bring it out and it happened in Greensboro, North Carolina. Now, a little context, I wanna be fair, maybe I’d received a blessing, but I couldn’t ever remember. We weren’t in one of those back to school blessing families. I don’t know if that was as much of a thing as it is now, which is wonderful that I think that we’re using God’s priesthood power more. But I didn’t have a lot of experience with that. And the first time I really remember seeing a priesthood blessing was in the MTC and a missionary was sick. I remember just standing in the circle and being touched by the Spirit on how wonderful this was. A member of our ward reaches out and says, Elders, I’m sick. Will you please come and give me a blessing? And we rush to him. And as you guys know, some missionaries have more faith than they have sense.

                                           00:44:58             I lay my hands on the head of this wonderful faithful soul just going for it. I start and I realize I don’t know how to do this. So I start thinking of words that I’m supposed to be saying. And I legitimately think I said anoint, sustain, called to, ordain,

Hank Smith:                      00:45:19             Consecrate.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:45:21             Consecrate. I’m sure that word came and I think I even repeated some a couple times and I’m starting to feel embarrassed. You know when your neck gets hot it just gets worse and worse. And I finally, you know, and your eyes are getting hot too ’cause I’m about to cry and I’m not a crier, but I’m so embarrassed and I’m like, I just need to stop this. And I finally closed. It was like I collapsed almost. I was like, this was so bad. I remember I had my hands on his shoulders and I like looked at my companion, my companion’s jaw dropped, his eyes were open staring like what just happened? Like he’d never seen the type of train wreck that had just happened. And he said this, quote, well, and he paused, should we do it again? Right? Like no, like what is this? Who have I been saddled with?

Hank Smith:                      00:46:17             We just consecrated, sustained and ordained.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:46:20             And that sweet, sweet man patted my hand that was on his shoulder and he says, Elder, it was just perfect. It was just perfect. God blessed that man despite me being just a mess. When we got back to the apartment that night, my companion, my trainer, he’s starting to realize what he got as a companion. And he goes, Danny, name as many apostles as you can. I was only able to get three. One of them had passed away about 20 years before my mission. Elder McConkie. I’m like Elder McConkie. And he is like, he died so long ago. And then I got Elder Oaks and then President Hinckley ’cause he was my guy. President Hinckley’s my guy.

Hank Smith:                      00:47:07             You’re like, that’s why I’m on a mission, right? President Hinckley.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:47:09             Yeah. Yeah. Because President Hinckley, I can’t do it by myself. It’s impossible. We can’t stress this enough, right? We can’t stress it enough. Impossible. But it’s him. It has less to do with how bad you are at this and more to do with how great he is. Jesus Christ is mighty to save. He’s mighty to save. He’s good at saving. It isn’t about me, it’s about me yoking to him. It’s about me yoking to Jesus. That’s why it’s gonna be okay. That’s one primary one. Hank in a sense, you just Enoched. There was a little bit of crying there. You were like, man, I’m lost. I am lost. I’m looking this we’re lost. Jesus walks him through and puts a sweet little bow on this for Enoch. It’ll be for us too. But Moses chapter seven, look at verse four. I think that we would be doing a disservice if we didn’t take a moment and make sure we understood how this came about.

                                           00:48:07             Look how Enoch talks with God. Verse four. And I saw the Lord; and he stood before my face and he talked with me even as a man talketh one with another. The relationship that Enoch has with God to quote the Bible Dictionary is natural and instinctive. It’s natural and instinctive. They’re talking Exodus 33:11, right? And I spake unto God as one man speaking unto another. It’s this relationship. Now put, and don’t get me wrong, this is doesn’t mean irreverence. If anything, the more I understand my relationship with God, the increase of reverence and reverence doesn’t just mean quiet. I revere him. The more I understand God, the more I understand Jesus Christ, the more I revere Them and I naturally am filled with reverence, then the result might be a quiet and still soul. But not even always. Elder Kearon did a great job of blowing that up recently.

                                           00:49:06             Are your prayers natural and instinctive? We have to have that relationship. If we’re gonna have Zion, if we’re gonna be what he needs. And yes, he needs us to be that, but really we need to be it. I think that’s my second President Faust quote today. There are statements in this quote that I am confident, in fact, I’ll ask our listeners while I read this quote. I want you to think about which aspects of the quote your actions show you don’t understand. How about that? Because some of you, you’re gonna be nodding your head and be like, yeah, yeah. Then he might say something, you’re like, actually I don’t know if my actions align with me actually living that. Here we go. This is from a May 2002 Ensign, the Lifeline of Prayer. He says, quote, no earthly authority can separate us from the direct access to our Creator. There can never be a mechanical or electronic failure. When we pray there is no limit on the number of times or how long we can pray each day. There is no quota of how many needs we wish to pray for in each prayer. We do not need to go through secretaries or make an appointment to reach the throne of grace. He is reachable at any time and at any place.

                                           00:50:16             I’ve had issues at different times in my life with probably all of them. I think I leave voicemail prayers all the time. He’s busy. He’s got stuff going. When you have a second, I’m down here in Rexburg having problems. That’s not how he is. Part of being omnipotent and omniscient is that he’s not like you and I. He is listening to me. He is listening to you. I love this. Any of you guys ever not prayed for something ’cause you’re like, ooh, I don’t wanna be greedy. I don’t wanna be greedy. He is omniscient. He already knows what’s in your heart. So just talk with him about it. The ridiculousness of this to be like, oh, I’m not gonna bring it up because I don’t wanna, he’s like, I know what’s in your heart. Let’s talk. He’s not a boss that you’re asking for time off from where you’re like, hey, remember how I worked Christmas and remember when I did X, Y and Z? Maybe I can have A, B and C. It’s natural and instinctive. This line, look at this. There is no quota of how many needs we wish to pray for.

                                           00:51:20             He already knows what’s in your heart. We don’t wanna give him a list of groceries. Please deliver. You know, I want a double size burger and this and this and I want it quick. No, you’re having a conversation with someone who adores you, who someone that you are related to. It’s okay to just talk and be like, you know what? I do want this. My prayers oftentimes will be like, I do want this. I don’t. It’s probably not a good thing to want, but you already know that I want it. So let’s talk about it. The whole objective of prayers often for me is to be different at the end of them than I am at the beginning. Heavenly Father, I desire this. I want this. Help me temper my wants, change. What am I not understanding? Or can I have this? Is there anything wrong with that?

                                           00:52:07             You know my heart better than I do. You’re having this council, this counsel with God. There’s power in that. Jesus is the exemplar. If anyone wanted to pray and you’re like, oh, that wasn’t a very good prayer because I asked, Jesus in Gethsemane says, Father, if there’s a way, can this cup pass by me? Now note the answer. If the original intent of my prayer isn’t given to me, that doesn’t mean that God didn’t answer me. Sometimes I think we’re like, oh God didn’t answer me. No, he answered you. You just didn’t get the answer you wanted. I know the Father loves the Son. He said, you have to do this. Jesus was okay with that. That’s the beauty of prayer. That’s why he said, Father, if there’s any way can this cup pass? Nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done. He’s modeling for us in the perfect way this relationship prayer. Enoch has relationship communication with heavenly Father. It’s different. It’s natural and instinctive and it’s real. It’s reverent. It’s acknowledging right? When we know who God is, when we know who Jesus is, we are different. And this is a critical part. I think it’s absolutely critical to me changing. I need to have these kind of prayers with him.

Hank Smith:                      00:53:28             Natural and instinctive.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:53:30             Natural and instinctive.

Hank Smith:                      00:53:31             If that’s not happening, I need to maybe study my relationship.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:53:36             That’s what I’m saying.

Hank Smith:                      00:53:37             Maybe ask this. Who do I naturally and instinctively talk to? Oh, well why do I do that? Well, we spend time together. I naturally and instinctively call my wife. Something happens. I call my wife. It’s not well, okay, I better call her. What am I gonna say? It’s a very natural thing to do. If it’s not happening with the Lord, why is it not a natural instinctive thing? Is it a lack of the relationship? Is it a lack of understanding? What do you both think? Do I not understand Him and His nature?

John Bytheway:               00:54:14             In counseling with young people I remember somebody I, do you pray? No. Well I pray like over the food if I’m asked to or but I’m just not worthy. And then your heavenly Father knows exactly where you’re at. Tell him. Just talk to him. Heavenly Father, I’ve messed up a lot, but here I am. Just opening that door gives you such access to his power like we’ve been talking about. And you’re not gonna surprise him. Just say, I haven’t prayed for a long time or I’ve messed up a lot. I’ve begun prayers like this. Heavenly Father, this is one of your stupidest sons. I have felt him nodding. Is that okay? I have felt him face palming, right? He knows. And he’s asking you to pray in every condition in sickness and health in poverty’s vale or abounding in wealth. So just do it. You’re not gonna surprise him and he loves you.

                                           00:55:12             And I was thinking too, of having children, sometimes I’ve thought, Heavenly Father, I realize there are a lot of people in this planet with problems so much worse than mine. So I don’t wanna pray ’cause I’m thinking there’s people that don’t know what they’re going to eat tonight or where they’re gonna live. And I have this problem that suddenly seems so dumb. What I realized as a parent is that if it’s important to your children, it’s important to you. And maybe he’s okay hearing my prayer, even though it might seem in comparison with the other world’s problems like not a problem.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:55:50             I think it’s interesting ’cause we often talk about God’s love, but I still think we underestimate it. We underestimate his love, we underestimate his patience. Moses seven is a messy conversation with God. Enoch is ugly crying the entire time. He’s asking questions that probably should already know the answers to or does know the answers to, but is having a hard time applying them. Enoch is startled. And yet look at how God treats him. He’s not like, you should have known. No. He is like, look at how tender he is with this. In fact, let’s highlight some of the messiness of Enoch through this. Verse 28. And it came to pass that the God of heaven looked upon the residue of the people and he wept. And Enoch bore record of it saying, how is it that the heavens weep and shed forth? He’s astounded. He’s astounded. 29 and Enoch said unto the Lord, how is it? I still don’t get it. He’s saying it multiple times. How are you crying? How is he crying?

                                           00:56:52             Like, I can’t even fathom this. Enoch should know God is a God of passions. Enoch knows that God’s a God of love. Yet until he sees it, he doesn’t know. This is a messy conversation. Yet sometimes we’ll beat ourselves up. Like, oh, I need to pray. Right? Right is just from my heart. He already knows. He already knows. So let it work, let it be different. At the end, he asks again in verse 31, how can you weep? And when we talked about some of these verses, then he shows him beautiful things. He goes, let me give you some answers. He brings up Noah like it’s gonna be okay because look at what I’m gonna, do you see how wicked everybody is? It’s okay ’cause I’ve got a prophet named Noah. Look at 44, and as Enoch saw this, he had bitterness of soul.

                                           00:57:40             He’s in a worse spot possibly than he was at the beginning. This is not a quick answer. Like, oh, you’ll be fine, Enoch. And he goes, oh, I was fine. Enoch is wrestling with God in prayer. I’m still bitter. He doesn’t take the quick answer. He is like, no, this is messed up. Look at this fallen world. Look at, there’s sickness, there’s anger, there’s hatred, there’s death, there’s destruction, there’s a flood. Are you kidding me? He’s being transparent in his feelings to God. Then look how Jesus responds to him though ’cause he is in bitterness of soul in verse 44. And look at what he even says. And I said unto the heavens, I will refuse to be comforted. This is the kind of conversation. This is a real prayer. And how does God respond? Lift up your heart and be glad and look and he is gonna keep showing him more. He has zero problem walking hand in hand with Enoch.

John Bytheway:               00:58:40             This language. This is so beyond 1830, Joseph Smith. It’s so beautiful. Shed forth their tears as rain upon the mountains. Oh, beautiful poetry, veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness. A chain. And he looked up and laughed. How could you ever forget the sound of that laugh if you’re Enoch? This just beyond. 1830 what? And not even to mention the knowledge of astronomy at the time in 1830. And in verse 30, we’re talking about millions of earths like this would not be a beginning. If Joseph Smith made this up, which astronomer did he interview to come up with this number? You know Karl Anderson.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            00:59:30             He’s got a great middle name.

John Bytheway:               00:59:32             Karl Ricks Anderson. That’s the man. That’s right. He wrote a book called The Savior in Kirtland. I’m reading from page 195. The vastness of space and innumerable worlds must have been astonishing to Joseph and Sidney because astrophysicists of that day had such a limited understanding of space. Perhaps the leading early 1800s astronomer was Frederick William Herschel. He examined every star in the standard star charts of his day. And by 1802 had counted only something more than 90,000 stars in the Milky Way Galaxy through his 40 foot telescope, which looked like a giant cannon. Joseph’s understanding certainly put him at odds with the experts of his day. Just to me, it’s another testimony of the JST, of the Book of Genesis. It’s giving us so much more. Frederick Herschel. There’s 90,000 stars. What? I’m exceedingly astonished. No, there’s actually millions of earths like this would not be a beginning. It’s like, where’d you get that, Joe? You missed it on that Farmer Joe.

Hank Smith:                      01:00:47             You overshot the moon there Brother.

Bro. Danny Ricks:            01:00:50             Dr. Shannon. A BYU Professor. Avram. I heard him once say, if Joseph is guessing, he’s guessing exactly right. It’s astounding.