Hank Smith:                      00:00:00             Coming up in this episode on followHIM.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:00:04             Before I joined the church in 1994, I used to think that the establishment of this country wasn’t for us. I used to have the attitude, why am I celebrating independent state when my ancestors were in bondage at the formation of this country? And then when I joined the church, my eyes were open. As I’m reading Doctrine and Covenants 98 and Section 101 where the Lord specifically highlights that he raised up these wise men for specific purpose and that our founding documents are inspired.

Hank Smith:                      00:00:41             Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of followHIM. My name is Hank Smith. I am your host. I’m here with my co-host John Bytheway, a pool of living water on parched ground. John, that is you.

John Bytheway:               00:00:57             Never been called that

Hank Smith:                      00:00:59             I’m sure many of our listeners have sat in their car or had their children in the car and listened to a John Bytheway talk and I would describe it that way. Living water on parched ground. Hey John, we are very honored to have Brother Alvin Jackson with us Brother Jackson. Thank you for being here. Thank you for coming on followHIM.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:01:19             So happy to be here. I love your podcast. I love both of you. I was telling John before we got on that he went on a lot of road trips with my family because instead of listening to music or watching movies back in those days it was put a movie in and get the kids quiet. But no, my wife’s like, no. We’re listening to these hours and hours and hours of John Bytheway, and love the story of Lahonti and of Amalickiah coming down.

John Bytheway:               00:01:51             Don’t come down from your mountain.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:01:52             Don’t come from your mountain. That’s exactly right. And so we, we still talk about that to this day and when I told the kids that I was gonna be on this podcast, they thought way cool.

Hank Smith:                      00:02:01             John is as humble as you’d ever hope, but he has blessed a lot of lives and he just says, well, you know, we do what we can.

John Bytheway:               00:02:11             Right back at you.

Hank Smith:                      00:02:13             Hey John sections 133 and 134. Not super well known sections. They’re not one you automatically think of and they come out of order. I know you’ve taught these before. What are we looking at? What are you looking forward to?

John Bytheway:               00:02:31             133 was gonna be an appendix, an ending to the Book of Commandment. That’s interesting to think of where it was and how we’re gonna take the gospel to the world. But 134 is a really interesting section because it speaks of how we’re going to work with governments and laws in general. America was new at the time and still trying to live up to what it was designed to be. Looking forward to all of that.

Hank Smith:                      00:02:58             Yeah, I’m learning from an expert John. The date of section one is November 1st, 1831. The date of section 133 is November 3rd, 1831. So apparently just one day happened between those two and we’ve been studying all of that all this year. Brother Jackson, as you’ve looked at these sections, what are we gonna do today? I know you’ve worked in the aerospace industry, so give us a 30,000 foot view.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:03:24             It’s interesting to note that it was written just one day after section one and it just kept getting moved back to its rightful place. You think about the Book of Mormon, it starts with a question, just like most of Doctrine and Covenants, it starts with a question and it has to do with the gathering and what do the elders need to be doing to be involved in the gathering. And then the Lord in his magnificent wisdom lays out for them the reason you all need to get engaged is because I’m coming back sooner than most people think and I’m coming back in a big way. So it’s your job to go out and prepare the people for this magnificent return that I’m planning right now. Then 134, it tells us how we live in government. So we’ve got the preparation for the Lord’s Second Coming, how we live in a republic and how we adhere to the laws and the magistrates of the land.

Hank Smith:                      00:04:24             Yeah, one of the articles of faith honoring, obeying and sustaining the law. John, I need to tell you that I first heard about Brother Jackson from a member of our team, Annabelle Chamberlain. Annabelle is very complimentary of many people, but this was more than that. Annabelle told me that this is someone who absolutely needs to be on our show. We take Annabelle’s opinion very seriously here.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:04:48             She is a delightful young lady.

Hank Smith:                      00:04:51             She is and she does a lot for us here on our show. John, tell me what we know about Brother Jackson. I know you and he get along famously because of the common love of airplanes.

John Bytheway:               00:05:05             He received a bachelor’s degree in aviation business management from Embry Riddle, which the airplane people will know, oh that’s a big aviation university, and an MBA from Johns Hopkins University. He is in a business now where he’s committed to creating awareness and excitement and understanding about America’s true history. Hank, I have to hand it to you again. You got the right guy for today, especially for Section 134. He moved to Utah, he had been a lobbyist for about 16 years with names like McDonald Douglas, Boeing and Northrop Grumman, which caught my ear ’cause those are all aviation companies. Actually served in the Utah State Senate for a long time. Moved his family here to Utah for 16 years. They have seven children. Where are you living now, Brother Jackson?

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:05:54             We live in Chevy Chase, Maryland. We do have a place here in Salt Lake City. So we spend a lot of time out here ’cause my wife’s from here. I’ve got a boy that goes to University of Utah. He’s playing basketball there. He is following in the footsteps of his older brother, Frank, who went to Lone Peak High School here. McDonald’s all American, went to Duke for a year and then played in the NBA for five years. He’s currently here and he is gonna go to China in November to play some more basketball.

John Bytheway:               00:06:23             No kidding.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:06:25             That’s where we are. But we live about 20 minutes from the White House. We love living in DC because of the history.

John Bytheway:               00:06:32             Now Brother Jackson, you told us to call you Brother Jackson, but tell us how you’re currently serving in the church. You have a different title than brother, don’t you?

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:06:40             Yes, yes. I’m currently serving as a stake president in the Washington DC young single adult North Stake. We have eight units. I was a bishop in the YSA ward before I was called a stake president. So we’ve been working with young people for the last nine to 10 years. Knew Annabelle when she was a single lady and Austin, her husband, Chamberlain, my wife and I. It’s so funny we didn’t know we were that dumb until we started working with young single adults. They’re the smartest people in the room.

Hank Smith:                      00:07:13             Yeah. I teach at BYU and I often have to somehow disguise my face from going, wow, you just really taught me something I’ve never known. Yeah, they do that all the time.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:07:25             They are very smart, super intelligent. It’s clear all of them were held and reserved to come to the earth now when the world’s at its worst because of their valiancy, they are well positioned to turn their light on and really make a difference in the world and they are. We love serving with them.

Hank Smith:                      00:07:41             It’s a difficult world for them but they are up for it. They are up for the challenge. They were born for this. Let’s get started. I’m gonna read from the Come, Follow Me manual then really we wanna turn the time over to you Brother Jackson, guide us through this lesson. This is how it begins. In 1833, mobs attacked and destroyed the church’s printing press. Among the print jobs in progress at the time was the Book of Commandments, the church’s first attempt to compile God’s latter-day revelations into one volume. The mob scattered the unbound pages and although courageous saints preserved some of them, only a few incomplete copies of the Book of Commandments are known to have survived. What we now know as section 133 of the Doctrine & Covenants was meant to be the appendix to the Book of Commandments like an exclamation point at the end of the Lord’s published revelation, it warns of a coming day of judgment and repeats the call found throughout modern revelation, flee worldliness as symbolized by Babylon, build Zion, prepare for the second coming and spread this message unto every nation and kindred and tongue and people. The original plans for the Book of Commandments were not fulfilled, but this revelation is a reminder and a witness that the Lord’s work will go forward for he shall make bare his holy arm and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of their God. Beautiful. Okay Brother Jackson, we are ready to learn.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:09:09             Great, thank you so much. You go back and read the opening part of section 133. It says, at this time there were many things which the elders desire to know relative to preaching the gospel to the inhabitants of the earth and concerning the gathering and in order to walk by the true light and be instructed from on high on the 3rd of November, 1831, and this is Joseph Smith writing, I inquired of the Lord and received the following important revelation and we’ve already discussed how it was originally written as an appendix but kept moving back over time. The answer that the Lord gives comes in an interesting order as the Lord proceeds to talk about his pending Second Coming, highlighting the reason why the elders need to be involved in the gathering. That’s one thing that I just love about the church that was so attractive to me when I started taking the discussions.

                                           00:10:05             We’re very good at teaching the why behind things. The Lord says, I’m gonna answer your question but I’m gonna tell you why. First, growing up in a Baptist faith, it was in a home where my parents old school you do as I say, no questions, no if ands or buts. There was no why. It was you either do this or I’m gonna knock you out. When I started taking the discussions in the church, I love the why the scriptures here are so illusionary. Jesus will be coming back in a very dramatic fashion and there’s a lot of references to John the Revelator in the Book of Revelations, particularly Revelations chapters 12 and 14, which we will reference. The message is clear, there’s no time to waste. The Revelations urgent tone emphasizes that Christ soon will come back to judge an apostate world which we refer to as Babylon. Any thoughts to that point.

Hank Smith:                      00:11:08             John I’ve said this before, but my great-grandfather wrote a hymn in which he said, come to Zion, come to Zion, Babylon the great is falling.

John Bytheway:               00:11:21             Your great-grandfather wrote that.

Hank Smith:                      00:11:23             Yeah. Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:11:24             Wow. That’s cool.

Hank Smith:                      00:11:26             A lot of it comes from this section. Go ye out from Babylon or the world, get away from there. You mentioned the book of Revelation, Brother Jackson. There’s a great verse in Revelation where the Lord is speaking to the people in the great and spacious building. It’s in Revelation 18:4. I’ve read the Book of Mormon where it says the great and spacious building falls and great was the fall thereof. Part of me is like, yeah, that’s what you deserve. But in Revelation 18:4, the Lord says, come out of her my people that you receive not of her sins or her plagues. There’s a tone of I love you. Get out of there.

John Bytheway:               00:12:12             I gotta write that down. I like what Brother Jackson said about the urgency of it in verse two, the Lord who shall suddenly come to his temple. We have all heard throughout the Doctrine & Covenants a phrase like I come quickly sometimes I jokingly say, you keep on using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means because they’ve been saying quickly for 200 years. Some of the commentators I’ve read like Elder McConkie says quickly means suddenly, in a time you think not. Quickly can mean without warning. So when I see suddenly I think it’s time to be prepared now.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:12:49             Yeah, that’s right. It references if you look down in the footnotes, you look at Malachi chapter three verse one where it says, behold I will send my messenger and he shall prepare the way before me. And the Lord whom he seeks shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant whom he delight in behold he shall come saith the Lord of hosts. The question I have for you all is who is the messenger? He says, behold, I will send my messenger and he shall prepare the way before me. Who is he referring to there? ’cause I was reading that and wondering is he referring to Joseph Smith? Malachi three verse one, which is footnoted to…

John Bytheway:               00:13:31             The messenger of the covenant. I love this. There is an answer from D. Kelly Ogden. He’s a retired religious education professor and Andy Skinner that we’ve had on the podcast before. So I’m looking at page 456 in Verse By Verse the Old Testament. This is what he says. As we have seen a prophet’s name or title often has something to do with his message. Just as Malachi in Hebrew means literally my messenger, the Lord would send into the world a messenger or a covenant, a standard, an ensign to prepare the way before him. We may see a composite fulfillment of this great prophecy in the coming of John the Baptist, Elijah and others in the ministry of Joseph Smith and in the gospel itself. Orson Pratt and Sidney Rigdon for example, were told in these latter days that they were preparing the way of the Lord just as John had done. Jesus Christ of course was the messenger of the covenant spoken of by Malachi in whom we certainly delight.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:14:35             Good answer. The section begins with a warning to prepare for the second coming of the Lord. And verse four, prepare ye, prepare ye, sanctify yourselves, gather together. And of course we love the word gather because our late prophet President Nelson, whom we are gonna miss dearly, he says, the gathering is the most important work taking place on the earth today. Nothing else compares in magnitude. Nothing else compares in importance. We’re the Lord’s missionaries, his disciples, we are engaged in the greatest challenge, the greatest cause, the greatest work on earth today. And we see throughout the scriptures the Lord continually challenges us to gather, gather, gather. When you look at verse five, he admonishes us to separate yourself from the ungodliness of the world. You just can’t have one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom. It’s just unsustainable. The gray areas are quickly dissipating. You’re either in or you’re out. There’s no squishiness. We are seeing a separation of the wheat and the tares and the Lord is admonishing us in verse five, to separate yourself from the ungodliness of the world and come over to his side.

John Bytheway:               00:15:51             President Nelson brought into our, well, we knew about gathering, but just brought it into our conversations so much more and I’m deeply grateful for one of his first talks in 2018 that you already mentioned of talking about the greatest thing you can do. ’cause I think it affected some of my kids and my daughter who served a mission, she thought, oh I might, I might not. But I think President Nelson’s message of gathering had a big impact on her thought process and decided, yeah, I think I will serve. I’m so grateful for that. When I see the scriptures, what do you think, Hank? You see a series of scatterings and gatherings, don’t you? But here’s a big one at the end, a big gathering.

Hank Smith:                      00:16:30             Right. President Nelson has brought this to the forefront of our minds. It’s something that I think I had some ideas on before he became the president of the church and then he put it into focus. It all became very clear that the Lord made a promise, especially through the prophet Isaiah, that you will be scattered but I haven’t forgotten you. One day I will bring you back. One day. Right? And it was millennia later when he called on a farm boy and said, it’s time, it’s time to keep a promise.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:17:07             That’s so powerful because the prophet also, President Nelson, talked a lot about the Lord is hastening his work as he did two conferences ago and he’s hastening his work on both sides of the veil, which happens to be the theme and vision that we want to convey to our young single adults is we are anxiously involved in missionary work and then getting folks to the temple, which leads us into, well verse five. It says, go ye out from Babylon, be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord. So come out of Babylon and get yourself clean. Get yourself right, get yourself sanctified through the gift of the Holy Ghost. And then in verse six, call your solemn assemblies and speak often one to another and let every man call upon the name of the Lord. Can your weekly attendance at church serve as a solemn assembly in your opinion gentlemen?

John Bytheway:               00:17:59             It’s certainly a solemn event to contemplate what Jesus did for us and take the sacrament. I don’t know if that meets the formal definition of a solemn assembly that seems to have a specific purpose, but what do you think Hank?

Hank Smith:                      00:18:13             Yeah, I think that there are capital S Solemn Assemblies and there’s lowercase solemn assemblies. When we get together we can have these solemn assemblies, but we do have meetings such as when we get a new president of the church called solemn assemblies.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:18:29             Can we go to Doctrine & Covenants section 88 verse 117. I’m just fascinated by this notion of solemn assemblies. So come out of Babylon, clean yourself be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord and then call your solemn assemblies and speak often one to another. And so you go to 88:117, it says, call your solemn assembly as I have commanded you and in verse 118, and as all have not faith, seek diligently and teach one another words of wisdom. Yea seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom, seek learning even by study and faith. Organize yourselves, prepare every needful thing and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God. So come out of Babylon, hold your solemn assemblies. Be involved and the Lord admonishes us, where we, what we need to be about and that’s being in a house of order and a house of God. The temple.

John Bytheway:               00:19:33             I love it.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:19:34             Let’s go down to verse eight here and we now get to the answer of the original question. The first seven verses the Lord highlights that he’s coming back, he’s coming to his temple quickly, come out of Babylon and then in verse eight he tells us, send forth the elders of my church unto the nations which are afar off unto the islands of the sea. Send forth unto foreign lands, call upon all nations first upon the Gentiles and then upon the Jews, which is very interesting to me because when you look at the New Testament, it was let’s take the gospel to the Jews first, then on to the Gentiles. Here we are reversed. Any thoughts about that?

Hank Smith:                      00:20:18             How many times do we hear in the scriptures the last shall be first and the first shall be last. We’re gonna take the gospel to the Jews, then the Gentiles, and then the last days it’s gonna go from Gentiles to Jews.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:20:30             Verse nine, go ye forth into the land of Zion. Further instruction and the borders of my people may be enlarged and that her stakes may be strengthened and that Zion may go forth unto the regions about establishing Zion. And in verse 10, this is an interesting statement here the Lord makes here, awake and arise and go forth to meet the bridegroom. Prepare yourself for the great day of the Lord. There’s that analogy to the bridegroom which was talked about quite a bit in the last General Conference. That whole the parable of the bridegroom. There in verse 11. Watch therefore for ye know neither the day nor the hour, but be prepared. From the conference talk in October ’24, President Nelson says, the Lord Jesus Christ will come again. It was really a hopeful message, not a day to be feared. He says, brothers and sisters, now is the time for you and me to prepare for the Second Coming of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Now is the time for us to make our discipleship our highest priority, in a world filled with dizzying distractions how can we do this? And he goes on and talks about regular worship in the temple that will help us to be able to do that. Any thoughts gentlemen?

John Bytheway:               00:21:46             There’s a few metaphors I think for the Second Coming. One is a thief in the night. You have no idea. One is a woman in travail where you’ve got a pretty good idea because you can tell that there are signs. This one too, the bridegroom. You see the footnote there to Matthew 25, this parable of the wise and foolish virgins. They know a wedding’s coming, they know it’s close, but they’re just not quite ready. That’s a great one to add to that list of different metaphors. Won’t take us by surprise. We will know it’s coming and as President Nelson said be prepared.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:22:24             Adding to that John, when the prophet tells us we are the people that need to prepare the world for the Second Coming, the world is wicked enough in my opinion, for the Savior to come back. I mean we’re, we’re pretty darn close, but I don’t think the world is prepared yet. That’s why we’re being admonished to be part of that come out of Babylon, be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord so I can use you. Gather together with other like-minded people, Latter-day Saints, other Christians, link arms and go out into the world and proclaim my gospel first to the Gentiles and then to the Jews, lays it out beautifully for us. This is our roadmap, this is our playbook, our blueprint for getting prepared and helping the world be prepared for the Lord’s Second Coming.

Hank Smith:                      00:23:16             I’m interested in the juxtaposition or the spectrum of Babylon and Zion. You can’t have both. I’m sure you remember Elder Maxwell saying, let us once and for all, establish our residence in Zion. Give up the summer cottage in Babylon. That yes, I have both feet in Zion, but occasionally I go to Babylon to be entertained, right? I go to Babylon to see a show. I go to Babylon to embrace what’s over there. Just for a little while. I have found that Babylon today can be, I live in Zion, but occasionally I go into social media and spark contention and fight and comment back and forth. And then I come back and I live in Zion in my home and on Sundays, that could be a temptation to go over to Babylon and fight over whatever Babylon is choosing to fight about today. John, what do you say? What are we gonna be outraged about today? Let’s go over there and find out.

John Bytheway:               00:24:22             And you’re behind a screen name. People don’t know who you are, so it’s tempting for some of those social media entities to go and say things you would never say if you were with a group of people.

Hank Smith:                      00:24:35             Yeah, I think it’s now rage sales.

John Bytheway:               00:24:37             Outrage.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:24:39             Yeah, that is interesting. I find myself wanting to respond to people and they’re only just, they’re just words, right? We get so offended and so hurt by just words and you know, nobody’s entitled to go through life protected from insult, from hurt feelings. That’s just the occupational hazard of being in society. We’ve allowed ourselves to let words really govern us and I love the messages that we hear in conference and from the prophet. Be a peacekeeper. Don’t go down to individuals levels. Stay, stay above the fray and approach everything with love and charity. That’s hard to do. That is so hard to do. You go on social media and people love to refer to us as Mormons and that we’re not Christians and the tendency is to want to fight back. Our tree is known by its fruit. The best thing that you can do to counter the rhetoric is results. Live your life in a way that bears fruit and wear Jesus Christ on your sleeves.

John Bytheway:               00:25:45             Hmm.

Hank Smith:                      00:25:45             I love it. Sometimes we think I can’t go to bed. There’s someone wrong online. You’re not gonna change any minds. I like what you said there. Your daily interactions are gonna matter more than your online opinions.

John Bytheway:               00:26:03             Yeah, well put. I love what you said, just being above the fray. When I see how our church leaders respond, I think I need to be more like that. They’re always like that above the fray and we’re focusing on Christ and we’re telling everyone to focus on Christ. That’s a good way to respond.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:26:23             Yeah, you’re not gonna change minds and persuade people by telling them off. You’re really not. What did Lincoln say? An ounce of honey will catch more flies than a pound of gall. Let’s go down to verse 14 here. He admonishes us again to go ye out from among the nations, even from Babylon, from the midst of wickedness, which is spiritual Babylon. Down in verse 16, listen ye elders of my church together and hear the voice of the Lord for he calls upon all men and he commandeth all men everywhere to repent. We’re to go out and in the kindest way possible, call people to repentance. Have you all thought about what that looks like for you personally? That thought just came to me as I just read that calling people to repentance. How do we do that in the world that considers the truth in some regard, hate speech or unsafe, but at the same time you want to help people see the err of their ways or come to the light and from the darkness. How do you do that in this world where folks are so sensitive about believers and nonbelievers and so forth? What are, what are your thoughts gentlemen?

John Bytheway:               00:27:41             My first thought, Hank and Al went to the Bible Dictionary. I love its definition of repent. It’s a new view about oneself, about God and about the world. The word repentance, it almost implies you’re shaking a finger at somebody. When you see repentance as, let me show you a new way to view yourself, to view the world and to view God. That’s a very happy, hopeful kind of exciting thought to repent. If you put it that way, what do you think, Hank?

Hank Smith:                      00:28:12             Yeah, I think so. Some of the times that I’ve been personally called to repentance are when I’m around someone who is behaving in a way that I want to be more like them. For example, I’ve traveled with John before and I’ve seen him the way he interacts with people. I’ve seen the way he talks to his wife and his children and I think to myself as I’m just watching that I need to do better. Here’s October 2008, Elder D. Todd Christofferson. This talk is linked in the manual. Come to Zion, listen to what he says. Zion is Zion because of the character attributes and faithfulness of her citizens. He quotes Moses seven, the Lord called his people Zion because they were of one heart and one mind and dwelt in righteousness. There was no poor among them. And then this statement as I read it, he’s not calling me to repentance, but this statement sure does.

                                           00:29:12             If we would establish Zion in our homes, branches, wards and stakes, we must rise to this standard. It will be necessary to one, become unified in one heart and one mind. Two to become individually and collectively a holy people and three, to care for the poor and needy with such effectiveness that we eliminate poverty. Those three acts, he’s pointing out, he’s not calling me to repentance directly but he is and then he finishes this way. We cannot wait until Zion comes for these things to happen. Zion will only come as they happen. I need to be more unified with the Saints. I need to be more holy and I need to do more to care for the poor and needy in my own sphere of influence.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:30:05             You just highlighted some of the messaging that we’ve been getting from the brethren or regarding particularly I’m thinking about Elder Stevenson’s talk regarding the four divinely appointed responsibilities. First living the gospel of Jesus Christ. Second, proclaiming the gospel which is missionary work. Third, uniting families for eternity. And then four, caring for the poor and needy. If our focus as that Zionist community, if we can focus on the four areas, we can make a real difference in the world.

Hank Smith:                      00:30:39             Just our behavior I think can call people to repentance, not in a mean shameful way, but when you see someone behaving in a way that is inspiring, I am compelled to be more like them.

John Bytheway:               00:30:53             One of the things that is so motivating to me, I’ve tried to use it when I have a chance to give a talk or something is talk about someone like that and then you don’t have to say, you should be like this person. You just tell the story of the person and with your audience go, wow, the Spirit supplies the I need to do that, you know? The Spirit supplies that I need to be better about that when you talk about someone who is a great example to you. We all know what we’re not living up to. And so I like that idea Hank.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:31:27             I do too. Thank you for your comments. Those are great. Let’s go down to verse 17. I’m gonna say something here that I think will be interesting for our listeners. It says here in verse 17, for behold the Lord God hath sent forth the angel crying through the midst of heaven saying, prepare ye the way of the Lord and make his path straight, for the hour of his coming is nigh. The first thought is, well who is this angel? And I look down and I see in 17a Doctrine and Covenants 27:5. The Lord highlights who that angel is and it says here in verse 27:5, behold this is wisdom in me. Wherefore marvel not for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine and with you on the earth and with Moroni whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon containing the fullness of my everlasting gospel to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim.

                                           00:32:27             The Lord there is referring to Moroni. So then I did a little bit of research on Moroni ’cause we all know about him and Joseph Smith and the plates. And then I stumbled across a speech from 1854, the July 4th celebration. People think I’m nuts here. I’m reading back to speeches from 1854 and there was a celebration in Salt Lake City and Orson Hyde gives this speech, it’s found in the volume six of the Journal of Discourses. He says this, quote, in those early and perilous times, and this goes back John, to my love for American history, our men were few and our resources limited. He’s referring to the Revolutionary War. Poverty was among the most potent enemies we had to encounter. Yet our arms were successful and it may not be amiss to ask here by whose power victory so often perched on our banner. It was by the agency of that same angel of God that appeared unto Joseph Smith and revealed to him the history of the early inhabitants of this country.

                                           00:33:35             This same angel presides over the destinies of America and feels a lively interest in all our doings. He goes on to say he was in the camp of Washington and by an invisible hand led our fathers to conquest and victory and this to open and prepare the way for the Church and the kingdom of God to be established in the western hemisphere for the redemption of Israel and the salvation of the world. This same angel was with Columbus and gave him deep impressions by dreams and by visions respecting this New World under the guardianship of the same angel, or Prince of America, have in the United States, grown, increased and flourished like the sturdy oak by the rivers of water. That’s who Moroni is according to Orson Hyde. Thoughts gentlemen. Am I nuts here? What do you think?

John Bytheway:               00:34:29             When I see the language in verse 17, an angel crying through the midst of heaven. That’s one of the last verses in the book of Revelation. I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven having the everlasting gospel. I’m always reminded and this’ll hit home of the Washington DC temple where you’ve got Moroni with the trumpet in his right hand and some angel Moroni have their left hand empty. But this angel Moroni has the plates in his left hand in the Washington DC temple. And I think could that be that meaning of having the everlasting gospel having it in his arms right there? What do you think?

Hank Smith:                      00:35:08             That’s great. Joseph Smith definitely saw that angel from the book of Revelation as Moroni. If the original Nauvoo temple had Moroni horizontal flying through the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel. I’ll mention one thing here from verse 17, but I really like what you’re saying here, Brother Jackson about Moroni in the history of America and him saying, well not only am I going to bring this, this gospel forth, this church forth, but I’m gonna bring this government forth that can sustain this church. Which the soil, this church can be built in. The reference of verse 17, prepare ye the way of the Lord and make his paths straight is an Isaiah reference that is used for John the Baptist. From what I understand in Jesus’ day, if a king was going to make a journey, he needed to send out a road crew in front of him.

                                           00:36:05             Right? Here in Utah we have UDOT, my friend Jeff Lewis works for UDOT. They make sure the roads are smooth, but in Jesus’ day there is no Israel-DOT. There is no holy land-DOT to go and fix all the roads. He has to send out a road crew in front of him to make sure that the road isn’t washed out or the rocks are made smooth. John the Baptist is this road crew. You can both correct me here, but I believe that when Jesus shows up on the scene, John the Baptist already has a number of followers. Jesus doesn’t have to do the grassroots, John just says, I’ve got your people. Here they are. Take ’em. You must increase. I must decrease. I’ve never thought of this, but I can see the Book of Mormon and Moroni being that John the Baptist figure the second time that when the Lord comes again, there’s already a people prepared for him by Moroni in the Book of Mormon.

John Bytheway:               00:37:04             I like it. The idea of a forerunner is going before the king and we often call John the Baptist a forerunner. My wife and I when we were first married had a Toyota Forerunner and we wanted to get the license plate that said Elias ’cause Elias was a forerunner. We thought that would be so funny, but somebody already had it. But I like the way of preparing the way of the Lord. It sounds like we’re being called upon to do that again. Yeah He won’t be born in a manger this time. He’s gonna come a little differently this next time and we have to prepare for that.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:37:37             When you get to verse 18, it’s similar to Revelations chapter 14 verse one. I’ll read 18. It says, when the Lamb shall stand upon Mount Zion and with him 144,000 having his father’s name written on their foreheads. In Revelations 14:1 it says, and I looked and lo, a lamb stood on the Mount Sion with an S and with him and 144,000 having his father’s name written in their foreheads. And that 144,000 are also referenced in Revelation 7:4 as part of the vision recorded in the book of Revelation, John witnessed many important events that would occur prior to the Savior’s Second Coming and he saw the 144,000 faithful high priests from all the tribes of Israel being ordained to administer the gospel and bring people to the church. 144,000. If you take the 12 tribes and you divide it in 144, you get 12,000 from each tribe. Is that what the Lord is referencing here or I had a conversation with one of our institute teachers, CES, his name’s Michael Cottle. Hank, I think you know him and he just adores you.

Hank Smith:                      00:38:57             Oh, Brother Cottle and I are fast friends. I love Mike Cottle.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:39:02             He is great. He sent me this text ’cause we were talking about this and he says, as of December 31st, 2024, the church has 3,608 stakes. Each stake has three presidency members. If we average the number of wards to be eight in a stake, they would have 24 bishopric members who are all high priests, one patriarch and 12 members of the high council. That comes to 144,320 high priests. Isn’t that fascinating?

John Bytheway:               00:39:34             That’s a fun text to get.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:39:36             Yes, exactly. Book of Revelations. It’s a tough read for me because it used such illusionary language and beautiful language and it’s hard to understand sometimes. What are you all’s thoughts about the 144,000 and who are they?

John Bytheway:               00:39:53             I think they’re elders of Israel or maybe high priests, but I don’t think we have to limit that number and say there’s only gonna be this many or I think it’s a symbolic number. There’s going to be probably more than that, like you just said in your number, of high priests that have the Lord’s name written in their foreheads. But it’s symbolic of this is gonna happen.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:40:13             Yeah this is gonna happen. I love that.

Hank Smith:                      00:40:16             I’m with you John. I think the number is a symbol that this is the saved community. These are those who believe in Jesus. That idea of having the father’s name written on your forehead in the book of Revelation. You take one or the other, either you get the mark of the beast or you have the father’s name written in your forehead. The idea there is an ancient idea of ownership that the beast will brand you as a slave, but the Father or God in the book of Revelation seals you in your forehead, a much more kingly idea. So you can be branded a slave by Babylon or anointed a king by God. So it seems that these are those who have come out of Babylon and are part of this community of Zion, I would say.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:41:08             Yeah, I appreciate that. And going on to what you said there, you look at verse 19 and there’s the reference again to the bridegroom. It’s those who are with, and I think you’re right, the 144,000 is symbolic of those who are gonna be standing on the Lord’s side. ’cause we know in this world of contention and chaos and good versus evil, we know we’ve read the book and the end, the Lord’s gonna win. Well the question for us individually is what side do you want to be on? Do you want to be on the winning side or the pending losing side? So we have a choice with regard to using our agency to strive to be the best that we can, to be good and to do good so that when the Savior comes back, we can look forward to his return with anticipation in a positive direction that we’re on your right hand, we are here, we’re out of Babylon. And that’s where you want to be.

John Bytheway:               00:42:04             Your statement, decide which side’s gonna win. We need to decide which side is going to win and be on that side. Reminds me of an experience I had. I kept hearing that Elder Jeffrey R. Holland had said something like that, that the history of the world’s already been written and that the final victory has been posted or something like that. And I couldn’t find it anywhere. And I used every research tool I could think of and I just couldn’t find it. Hank, I did something I had never done before and I’m not recommending this especially, but I picked up the church’s phone number of the main switchboard and I didn’t know what would happen and I just said, hi, can you connect me to Elder Holland’s office? To my surprise, I was shocked and amazed when they said, yeah, just a minute. I went, what?

Hank Smith:                      00:42:51             Wait, what?

John Bytheway:               00:42:51             A wonderful person, a secretary answered and I said, hi, I am looking for this statement, something about the history of the world’s been written and final score’s been posted. I can’t find it anywhere. She said, huh, I’m not familiar with that. Let me get your email address. So I gave her my email address and thought, well, we’ll see what happens. And I get this email and it says, dear John, which is kind of the story of my life, but that’s another talk. Dear John, Oddly enough, that is something I said probably at a mission conference or somewhere where it wasn’t recorded. Would you like me to restate it and authorize it’s use? Jeff.

Hank Smith:                      00:43:34             Wow. Wow.

John Bytheway:               00:43:37             I emailed back like, oh man, I’m so sorry to bother you. I didn’t mean to. Thank you. That’d be great. But I’m sorry to bother you.

Hank Smith:                      00:43:45             And please forget my name and please forget

John Bytheway:               00:43:47             Yeah, I, no, no, no. Exactly, I was at the galley proof stage. I couldn’t wait any longer and it didn’t, it hadn’t come yet. Two days before I had to turn it in, I got this email from Elder Holland with this beautiful quotation, do you wanna hear it guys?

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:44:05             Yes, please.

John Bytheway:               00:44:07             Okay. Quote, the future of this world has long been declared. The final outcome between good and evil is already known. There’s absolutely no question as to who wins because the victory has already been posted on the scoreboard. The only really strange thing in all of this is that we are still down here on the field trying to decide which team’s jersey we want to wear.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:44:30             That’s so good.

John Bytheway:               00:44:31             Isn’t that good?

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:44:33             I gotta have that quote. That is an incredible quote.

John Bytheway:               00:44:37             The fun part is that when I gave this to Deseret Book, they said, what’s your source? And I said, well, it’s Elder Holland. So the editor had to put, I love this Hank this, the only time it’s ever been in one of my books. Personal correspondence from Elder Jeffrey R. Holland.

Hank Smith:                      00:44:53             Of course, between John Bytheway and Jeffrey R. Holland.

John Bytheway:               00:45:00             Hank you cannot believe how many Seminary and Institute teachers over the years, Hey, where did you get that? When I have to tell them, well, the only printed source I know of is my book.

Hank Smith:                      00:45:09             Right. John, if I remember right, that book is called When Times Are Tough by John Bytheway.

John Bytheway:               00:45:17             That’s right. With my personal correspondence from Elder Jeffrey R. Holland.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:45:23             That’s pretty cool.

Hank Smith:                      00:45:23             Some people are just lucky.

John Bytheway:               00:45:26             Oh man, that was so fun. How gracious of him to do that. It was even better than I thought. The idea that we are trying to determine which team’s jersey we want to wear, how absurd that would be since we know that the Lord will prevail and will be victorious. That’s why I loved it so much.

Hank Smith:                      00:45:46             Brother Jackson you said something earlier. I’d like to go back to throughout this section we hear, flee to Jerusalem and flee to Zion, get away from Babylon, go to Jerusalem, go to Zion. We can talk about Jerusalem next year, John. Old Testament, the following year, New Testament. This is a good chance for us to talk about Zion and the land on which it’s built, the country, the United States. You’ve done some homework on the history of this country. I think we’d love to just learn from you, what do you see in the United States and its founding that would be an ideal place for Zion to be built?

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:46:29             Wow. It starts with being built on the premise of freedom. That whole wonderful gift that the Lord gives us. The gift of agency and how it ties to the Atonement. That the Lord very much cares about what kind of government we live under because he wants us to live in a government where there’s maximum freedom so we can choose for ourselves and we can choose the worship for ourselves. Before I joined the church in 1994, I used to think that the establishment of this country wasn’t for us. I used to have the attitude, why am I celebrating Independence Day when my ancestors were in bondage at the formation of this country? And then when I joined the church, my eyes were open. As I’m reading Doctrine and Covenants 98 and section 101 where the Lord specifically highlights that he raised up these wise men for a specific purpose and that our founding documents are inspired.

                                           00:47:24             I struggled with that ’cause I’m thinking, well, I was taught that these men were flawed. I mean really, really flawed. They owned individuals, there’s so many stories that are out there that I’ve come to find out now were not true. Because if you can’t attack the doctrine, then you go after the personalities of these men or you make up stories about them. As I started doing my own research, I have to give credit to my mother. She would always say, go do your own research. I would encourage others to do that. Don’t just take someone’s word for it. Actually study it out for yourself. So as I became a voracious learner and reading about these men and reading in the Doctrine and Covenants and then there’s specific scriptures in first and second Nephi that talks about the special nature of this country. It all ties to the Atonement, Hank and John, if we’re free to choose, we’re held accountable for our own lives.

                                           00:48:23             This whole notion of self-government, which is at the the foundation of living in a republic in a free society, we’re then accountable for our own sins and we can’t blame others who we’re in bondage to or if we’ve got an unrighteous king like King Noah, that’s forcing us to do these things. No, the Lord wants us to be able to make decisions for ourselves so that we can choose Him. And that’s why America is such a special place. Not only provided the environment for the restoration of the gospel because we have freedom of religion, but it also protects that beautiful gift that the Lord gave us and agency, moral agency to choose for ourselves to choose him or choose the other guy. A long-winded answer to your question, Hank, but that’s my story.

Hank Smith:                      00:49:12             The more I’ve learned about the gospel, the more I’ve seen the Lord honors agency. If you’re going to choose to become like Him, it has to be freely chosen because if it’s not, you’re not actually like Him because he freely chooses His life.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:49:31             That’s right. I think the gospel of freedom goes hand in hand with the gospel of Jesus Christ. I don’t think you can have one without the other. We are a global church, but it all started and emanated right here in America. Just look at the Revolutionary War. We weren’t supposed to win that war. There’s no way. And here you got George Washington and this ragtag team of a collection of individuals from all walks of life, including black Americans who fought in the Revolutionary War. That’s another thing. What was it for them that encouraged them to get involved in something that most of their friends and relatives and so forth were in bondage, but they still fought. They also fought in the Civil War. So if America’s good enough for them, Hank and John it’s good enough for me.

John Bytheway:               00:50:21             I love this idea of agency. Before we pushed play Brother Jackson, we were talking about Lehi kind of dividing everything into two, kind of a dichotomy of God created things to act and things to be acted upon. We have power to act. And Hank what you said, it reminded me of Daniel Peterson who was talking about a world religion that wouldn’t let their youth mix because somebody might break the law of chasity. Daniel Peterson said it so beautifully. He said, yeah, if you allow the different sexes to mix, there may be some immorality. But he said there could be another result freely chosen virtue, which is a very good thing. And I love that the way he put that there are people who will freely choose virtue, but they have to have that choice. What did Elder Renlund say? God doesn’t want us to keep the commandments. He wants us to choose to keep the commandments. That idea of having a choice is an American idea that you’re talking about.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:51:26             It’s empowering. Isn’t that empowering? Don’t you feel powerful that you’ve got control over your destiny? That the doors locked from the inside as CS Lewis said, and we just have to turn the handle and walk through because we control that destiny. We talked about this before we hit record, that those ideals and principles found in our founding documents, even though these men were flawed, those are the ideals that we aspire to. Those are the standards that we aspire to. We’re still a work in progress.

John Bytheway:               00:51:57             You used a word just now that I think Martin Luther King called the Constitution an aspirational document. It’s like these principles are perfect. We’re not there, but they are principles to aspire to. It took us a while to get there and we’re still getting there in some things, but the document is talked about in the Doctrine and Covenants as being inspired, which is inspiring to think about that. Yeah. We’ve got work to do to live up to what this document spells out for us.

Hank Smith:                      00:52:27             Yeah. Brother Jackson, you hit something that hurts my heart. Occasionally when I’m in a lesson and I hear someone say, Satan wanted to save everyone, I think, why are you believing him? Believe what the Lord said about him. This is Moses chapter four, verse three. Satan rebelled against me. He didn’t want to save everyone. He sought to destroy the agency of man. That’s what he wanted. He wanted agency destroyed. I don’t know why we believe him. He says one thing and his motive is completely different.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:53:02             Completely different. A counterfeit. You think about the war in heaven, which was over agency. It continues today on the Earth, it’s still a fight over agency. I love that quote that you highlighted from Elder Holland about, we’re still trying to decide what jerseys we wanna wear when we know.

John Bytheway:               00:53:19             It should be obvious. Yeah.

Hank Smith:                      00:53:22             We know the end. Have you both noticed that almost everything the adversary pushes anyone towards results in a loss of agency. Addiction. Prison.

John Bytheway:               00:53:36             It’s like addiction and agency on different sides of a continuum. Satan doesn’t play fair. He’ll tell you, this is no big deal. Everybody does it. You’ll like it. Then as soon as you listen to him, he’ll say, you horrible person. How dare, you are the worst. You know? Because like you said, Hank he speaks out of two sides of his mouth and gotta know that, those tactics.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:54:03             Do you feel like he has turned up the temperature because he realizes that his reign is coming to an end and that he is just unleashing havoc on the world today?

Hank Smith:                      00:54:14             Yeah, absolutely. I’ve also noticed that nothing the Lord asked me to do is very addictive. I sometimes wish it was, but I have to choose it every time. I’m not addicted to paying my tithing. I’m not addicted to fasting. I’m not addicted to going to the temple. I have to freely choose it every single time. What did you say? The war continues. The war on agency.

John Bytheway:               00:54:40             We just changed locations. Yep.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:54:42             Yeah, that’s right. That’s why we’re doing this podcast so we can help people. I mean this is another tool to go along with the scriptures, the temple, the conference talks, which I’ve fallen in love with again because I read ’em as I walk on the treadmill because I don’t have John Bytheway’s metabolism so I’ve got my treadmill on the highest level, I’m walking uphill and before you know it, I’ve been 35, 40 minutes on the treadmill ’cause I dove right back into the conference talks, loving those conference talks.

John Bytheway:               00:55:15             Yeah, you can lose track of time ’cause sometimes I’ll listen, I’ll miss my exit. Suddenly I’m in Idaho going, wait, I was supposed to turn off in Farmington. What? How’d I get here? You know?

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:55:25             Right. I’ve loved studying this. Let’s go to verse 20. For behold, he shall stand upon the Mount of Olivet and upon the mighty ocean, even the great deep and upon the islands of the sea and upon the land of Zion. So metaphorically, the Savior will be standing across the different continents, a reference we’ll discuss later as it relates to the actual surface of the earth. So if you switch over to Zechariah chapter 14, verses two to four. At His Second Coming, the Lord will fight for Israel, for I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle and the city shall be taken and the houses rifled, and the women ravished and half of the city shall go forth into captivity and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Verse three, then shall the Lord go forth and fight against those nations as he fought in the days of battle.

                                           00:56:25             And his feet in verse four shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east and the Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, thus shall be a very great valley and half the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south. There’s that illusionary language, that imaginatory language of the Savior and His Second Coming. And then you jump down to verse nine, and the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord and his name one.

Hank Smith:                      00:57:05             The beauty of Zechariah here is that everything is going wrong. We’ve got our backs against the wall we’re going to lose. Then like the Red Sea, the mountain splits there is a way out. So it does seem to be a reenactment. The Red Sea part two.

John Bytheway:               00:57:28             Oh, I like that. Yeah. Which is our way out.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          00:57:32             Going back to the sports analogy of what team we wanna be on. Jesus Christ is our best player and oftentimes he’s sitting on the bench waiting for us to put him in the game. The best player shows up when things are quite bleak. Then in verse 21, And he shall utter his voice out of Zion and he shall speak from Jerusalem and his voice shall be heard among all people. And it shall be a voice as a voice of many waters. Have we heard that reference before? And as a voice of a great thunder, which shall break down the mountains and the valley shall not be found. That great and dreadful day. This focuses on, these two verses, the great part, awesome. He’s coming back in glory and power. Verse 23 and 24, we’re gonna talk a little bit about America here.

                                           00:58:25             23 and 24. He shall command the great deep and it shall be driven back into the north countries and the island shall be become one land and the land of Jerusalem and the land of Zion shall be turned back into their own place in the earth shall be like it was as in the days before it was divided. Interesting. As I did some research on that, that’s an interesting notion for me because about a hundred years likely 125ish per the lineage that’s laid out in Genesis chapter 10 after Noah and his family come off the ark, the one landmass was divided, noted in Genesis 10:25, Peleg means division. And the scripture reads and unto Eber were born two sons, the name of one was Peleg; for in his days, the earth was divided. According to scripture, Peleg was the great, great grandson of Shem who was a son of Noah who was on the ark.

                                           00:59:32             And there’s an article that I found from President Holland that he wrote in 1976. In commemoration of the bicentennial. He says, quote, holy scripture records that after the waters had receded off the face of this land, it became a choice land of the Lord. Wherefore, the Lord would have that all men should serve Him who dwell upon the face thereof, which is a reference to Ether chapter 13, verse two. Such a special place needed now to be kept apart from other regions, free from the indiscriminate traveler as well as the soldier of fortune. To guarantee such sanctification the very surface of the earth was rent. In response to God’s decree, the great continent separated and the ocean rushed in to surround them. The promised place was set apart without habitation. It waited for the fulfillment of God’s special purposes. This is Jeffrey R. Holland, A Promised Land, which he wrote in June 20th, 1976 Ensign article on page 23. That quote comes directly from that, which highlights that notion there, that the days before it was divided at the end of verse 24.

Hank Smith:                      01:00:49             I am one who reads the scriptures figurative first, literal second. So when I see this division take place early, just after Adam and Eve, I think of the fall that there was unity on the earth. Then there’s this dramatic fall. It’s just division, Satan rules by division. And the Lord is begging his people to be one. I feel like here he comes, he’s coming back to his people, he’s coming back to the earth. Unity is a result of that, that everyone is turned back and the earth is like it was before the fall that the lion and the lamb lie down together.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          01:01:33             I like that perspective a lot. Thank you Hank.

John Bytheway:               01:01:36             And I like that idea of it sure does take the Holy Ghost to read some things, doesn’t it? When you’re doing that approach, is this figurative or literal? I feel like Laman and Lemuel asked Nephi about that too. And sometimes Nephi said, well actually it’s both. But yeah, I love the idea of a division and unity there. The way you explained that, Hank, that’s the one I would prefer. I’m anxious to see what really happens.

Hank Smith:                      01:02:05             All right. Now if it’s literal, I am excited to see it.

John Bytheway:               01:02:09              Yeah, that’s gonna be something, yeah.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          01:02:11             To follow up on that because I do, I hear you. I read it figuratively and literally because of my study of America and it being the promised land in terms of a place where the restoration could come about, the Lord had to separate it from the landmass. And if you look at 2 Nephi chapter one, verses six to eight, the key verse is in number eight, it says, and behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations. For behold, many nations would overrun the land that there would be no place for an inheritance. That connects to these verses that we’ve just read here. When the Lord comes again, he’s gonna bring it all back together. And how he does that, who knows. But you look in 2 Nephi, chapter one verses six and seven, where Lehi talks about, wherefore I Lehi prophesy according to the workings of the Spirit, which is in me, that there shall be none come unto this land save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord. So when you think about the pilgrims, we were taught in school that they came here for religious freedom. They were already experiencing that in Holland ’cause they had left England to go to Holland. And they were already exercising their right to worship as they please. But as they thought about it further, they were admonished by the Lord through prayer to come to America. So if you read further in verse six there from 2 Nephi chapter one, verses six and seven, wherefore this land is consecrated unto him who he shall bring and if it so be that they shall serve him according to the commandments. That’s the gospel according to Al Jackson.

Hank Smith:                      01:04:03             We’ll take it. That’s what we want today.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          01:04:05             Great, thank you. And then you look here in verse 25, and the Lord, even the Savior shall stand in the midst of his people and shall reign over one flesh, which is so beautiful. I mean, that goes back to what we talked about before, that we all become part of the same team. We just wanna get to the ballpark early.

Hank Smith:                      01:04:25             That’s beautiful. The more I read Section 133, the more I’m seeing, how well do you know your Bible? Almost every verse has a reference to either Zechariah or the Book of Revelation so far. And other places we’re going, oh wait, there’s the parable of the ten virgins right there. Oh wait, there’s Zechariah. Oh, there’s the Book of Revelation over and over.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          01:04:50             That’s a commercial for reading scriptures every day, isn’t it? Right? The Lord speaks scripture, doesn’t he? I wish I was more consistent at reading every day as I tell every, all my young single adults. But when you do, your mind’s just enlightened. And what I love about what the church does, these footnotes are gold. Gold in terms of being able to cross reference. And that takes time. It takes time to do that. And most people don’t have the kind of time that is, we just gotta make it a priority to give the Lord some time. As Elder Rasband instructed us in the last General Conference, we hop over to verse 26. This goes back to what you said before, Hank, about the division and bringing us together under the Savior where there’s no ites. You look at verse 26, they who are in the north country shall come in remembrance before the Lord and their prophets shall hear his voice and shall no longer stay themselves.

                                           01:05:48             That north country reference really refers to where the enemies of Jerusalem would occupy a geographical region to the north of Israel. And Judah, which is primarily associated with Babylon and the Assyrian empires, these empires emerged from the north, invaded the land, destroyed Jerusalem, and then took the Israelites into exile. So that term also appears in prophecies of the restoration with a promise of the return of the exiles from the north to the land of Israel. I think it’s symbolic of those who were scattered, forgotten, or lost, that the Lord remembers them in compassion and brings them all together under his tent. That Zion tent.

John Bytheway:               01:06:32             Yes. That idea of, look at it symbolically first, the north countries is where the tribes were initially scattered. And by the time we get to Nephi, he’s saying now they’re in the four quarters of the earth. They’re all over. But we still can refer to the north countries as those that are lost or hidden or concealed and that they’re gonna be gathered. We can call it the north countries, but that symbolically means wherever they are. Am I right on that, Hank?

Hank Smith:                      01:06:58             Oh, I think so. Article of Faith 10. You can always remember it ’cause it’s about the 10 tribes. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and the restoration of the ten tribes. The ten tribes is the northern kingdom. The Lord has not forgotten them. There’s a beautiful reference in the end of 1 Nephi where the Lord says, I can’t forget you, can a mother forget her newborn? I have engraven you on the palms of my hands. For the northern country, the restoration is 2,500 years after they are scattered. Seems the rest of the world has long forgotten about scattered Israel, even through the apostasy. There’s no one talking about scattered Israel until Moroni appears to Joseph Smith in 1823 and says, God made a promise 2,500 years ago, and you’re the kid that’s gonna bring it. That’s gonna help him keep his promise.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          01:07:55             And when they do come back, what we look at as desert is gonna have to produce some water to take care of all these people’s needs. Am I correct? And so then we get to the John Bytheway scripture, which is a perfect description of him. It says, and in the barren deserts, there shall come forth pools of living water and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land. How do you all read that?

Hank Smith:                      01:08:20             Brother Jackson you told me that one of the things you loved when you were investigating the church was the knowledge you could get. That seems to be verse 29. I am thirsty for this knowledge and the church offering this to me. Would you say that’s what happened?

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          01:08:36             Absolutely. I just would go to gospel essentials when we had that class, I’ll never forget my teacher, Kathleen Flake, taught that class. It was like manna from heaven because growing up Baptist, you show up at church. My mom was very faithful in taking us. She got me prepared. So when I heard the fullness of the gospel that I would gravitate towards and then accept it, it was just that I’m just drinking from a fire hose and I’m enjoying it. As I’m reading the Book of Mormon, understanding the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, latter-day revelations through the prophets, through our General Conference talks. It was exciting for me. And it still is. It still is. As I’m learning every day, what does Christ tell us? He’s the living water.

Hank Smith:                      01:09:27             Right. What a beautiful metaphor. I think it’s why Latter-day Saints look forward to General Conference. It feels like parched ground and I’m getting a drink of pure water.

John Bytheway:               01:09:39             We’ve got probes on Mars as we speak. What are they looking for? Water. ’cause if there’s water, there could be life. Then if there’s water, we could go there perhaps and survive. Mankind could go there. Jesus used the best metaphors. He never said, I’m like gold or I’m like diamonds. But he did say, I’m like light. I’m like bread. I’m like water. Profound.

Hank Smith:                      01:10:07             And it seems that there’s an apostasy, a lack of knowledge of God, of ordinances, of priesthood authority. The highway opens up, here comes the church, and it brings all of this living water to parched ground. This is beautiful language.

Bro. Alvin Jackson:          01:10:27             It is beautiful.