Hank Smith:                      00:00:00             Coming up in this episode on followHIM.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:00:04             Right now I serve on the NCAA Women’s Basketball Committee, which is a committee of 12 athletic administrators from around the country. Last year during March Madness, we’re on the road pretty much that entire month. We finish selections. We choose who makes it to the NCAA tournament. Then we go right into being sent to the different sites to oversee the tournament. You get a few days off in between, but truly you’re on the road for about four weeks straight. I knew that there would be some responsibilities that would fall over Sunday.

Hank Smith:                      00:00:36             Hello everyone! Welcome to another episode of followHIM. My name is Hank Smith. I’m your host. I’m here with my co-host John Bytheway who the Lord loves because of the integrity of his heart and because he loves that which is right. John Bytheway, I read that. It’s actually about Hyrum Smith, Section 124 verse 15, but it fits you.

John Bytheway:               00:00:54             Oh, I think it fits Hyrum better, but thank you, I’ll take it.

Hank Smith:                      00:00:59             I’ve known you a long time John. You love that which is right, especially anything the Wright Brothers built. You also love that.

John Bytheway:               00:01:06             Yeah, I like those Wrights too. Wilbur and Orville.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:08             Hey John we are honored to have with us, Dr. Liz Darger. Liz, welcome to followHIM.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:01:16             Thanks for having me.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:17             I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time. She comes highly recommended by someone I love. John, before we talk about Liz, let’s talk about Nauvoo. The Saints have now come out of Missouri. They’ve been driven out of Missouri. We talked about the darkness of Liberty Jail last week with Dr. Holland. Now things are hopefully gonna improve a little bit. What do you think of when you think of Quincy moving to Commerce becoming Nauvoo.

John Bytheway:               00:01:46             It’s a place, it’s an era. It’s a feeling. It’s an experience. I know that Elder Hafen once talked about the Kirtland days of our lives and the Nauvoo days of our lives and how their difference, just all of that comes together in Nauvoo and in Section 124 today.

Hank Smith:                      00:02:03             Yeah, it does. Liz, as you’ve prepared for today, what are you looking forward to?

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:02:09             I am looking forward to being with both of you, first of all. I feel this is really a privilege and an honor. I’m excited to talk about Nauvoo. There are a few things that have really stood out that I am excited for us to focus on. One is this idea of having confidence in sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ with others, doing it in normal and natural ways. Then that dwellings matter to God, our dwellings, others dwellings and his dwelling, His holy house, and then that God endows us with power in his house and functioning with God’s power in our lives as we make and keep covenants with Him.

Hank Smith:                      00:02:44             John, you and I know Liz, but I don’t know if our audience knows Liz, do you have a background on her? Have we done any digging?

John Bytheway:               00:02:53             I’m so glad she’s here. I met Liz when she was serving with President Bonnie Cordon on the Young Women Advisory Council. I was serving with President Steven Lund on the Young Men’s Advisory Council, and we got to actually do a training together. Then we found out we have a common member of our Hero Hall of Fame in Brother John Peay up there in Boise area, so that was really cool to hear that. Liz is a senior associate athletic director at BYU where she works with, these are her words, the most remarkable student athletes in the world. In the past 10 years, she served as the sport administrator for men’s and women’s cross country. They’ve made some noise recently, track and field, women’s soccer, women’s gymnastics, the cheer squad, and the Cougarettes dance team. She’s a member of the Big 12 Conference executive committee and serves on the NCAA Division one Women’s Basketball Committee, where she was recently voted chair for 2026, 2027 season.

                                           00:03:57             Liz serves on several campus roles including Sorensen Fellow for BYU Sorensen Center and Moral and Ethical Leadership, a member of the University Belonging Committee. She is a Utah Woman Leadership Project Ambassador, serves on the United Way of Utah County Board of Directors. She’s also a member of the NCAA Common Ground Leadership Team, which is tasked with exploring how representatives of a faith-based and LGBTQ communities can work more cohesively in college sports and higher education To model respect for all. She has a bachelor’s degree in family sciences, a master’s degree in school counseling, a doctorate in educational leadership, all from BYU. I wanna mention her dissertation. It was on Latter-day Saint Women and Leadership in Higher Education. Liz is passionate about the influence and impact women can have in families, in the workplace and communities, in the church and in the world. This is my favorite part in your bio, Liz. She grew up in Boise, Idaho. She enjoys watching musical theater, cheering on nieces and nephews, playing pickleball with friends, all of which are even better if she’s doing them at Bear Lake.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:05:09             True story.

John Bytheway:               00:05:12             That’s great. Which we can call that Bear Bachmeier Lake this weekend.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:05:17             There we go. I like it.

John Bytheway:               00:05:20             We’re really happy to have you with us, Liz. I’m so excited for the perspective you’ll bring to this part of the Doctrine and Covenants.

Hank Smith:                      00:05:28             This is exciting. Before we move on, I think our listeners would be interested in a couple of things. One, let’s talk about your dissertation and two, let’s talk about life in the NCAA. That’s a high-paced 24/7 thing, isn’t it?

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:05:39             It really is. Working in athletics right now, in college athletics, it’s a little bit wild and wooly. There have been a lot of changes over the past number of years. I’m really grateful to work at a place like BYU that’s very mission driven. As the rules continue to evolve and the ways that we compete continue to evolve, I’m grateful to be grounded by our mission at BYU and to be tied at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but it’s, it’s also a really fun and exciting time at the NCAA and at BYU in particular, there truly has never been a better time to be at BYU and be a student athlete. There really hasn’t. Competing in the Big 12 is outstanding, looking at our teams and how successful that they’ve been. It’s a really fun time to be a part of that and fun to be able to represent BYU in the various ways Big 12 and the NCAA.

                                           00:06:24             And then my dissertation. I absolutely loved my dissertation. It’s qualitative study. I was able to interview 15 of the coolest women at BYU that either were currently functioning or had recently retired as vice presidents or associate vice presidents or deans or associate deans about their leadership journeys. There were some really neat threads and patterns there of women in leadership that matched up very well, actually, with some research that’s been done in the past 20 years by a woman named Karen Longman, who’s a professor, actually recently retired professor at Azusa Pacific University. She’d studied Christian women in leadership in Christian higher ed, and I found some patterns that very much matched her patterns and really actually matched my own life in terms of many women, Latter-day Saint women in higher ed don’t plan on leadership as part of their life journey.

                                           00:07:21             Many of them didn’t plan working outside the home as part of their life journey, but felt nudged in some way. Many were nudged by a boss or a mentor or a friend, or some directly through the Holy Ghost. Nudged to consider something that they wouldn’t have on their own, nudged to consider an opportunity to serve or a leadership position, or to explore or get more education in. Thinking through that nudge, really not feeling like it’s something they would wanna do, but then feeling a sense of relational responsibility, feeling responsible for other people, feeling responsible for students, feeling responsible to the person that nudged them, feeling responsible to represent women, praying about it, getting spiritual confirmation that they should accept this leadership role or should go after more education or should explore this opportunity even though it wouldn’t be something that they would’ve done on their own without the nudge and perhaps something they didn’t even want to do.

                                           00:08:14             That pattern, I think, is really instructive, not only for Latter-day Saint women, but women and men in general in terms of following through on nudges we receive through others and nudges we receive through the Holy Ghost. That sense of relational responsibility I believe is part of us and our covenants. We live in a world that tells us to be selfish, and yet our covenants tell us otherwise. It’s that we are to all help one another. That relational responsibility we feel, I believe is divine. It was really neat to study these women, and again, to feel that pattern also have played out in my own life. I’ve seen some really interesting ramifications from it in terms of how we teach young women and how I interact with our student athletes. Trying to be someone that is always nudging, always nudging young women and young adult women to use their gifts and talents to consider more than maybe that they had thought before that they could contribute to the world.

Hank Smith:                      00:09:08             Wow. John, we’ve been studying Zion and the law of consecration. Can’t you hear echoes of that in what Liz is talking about?

John Bytheway:               00:09:16             Sometimes Hank and Liz, when I’ve been with a youth group, I’ll ask the adults in the room, raise your hand if your life journey turned out exactly the way you planned and nobody raises their hand and the youth look around like, really? It’s interesting how those nudges come. Something you didn’t think you’d be doing, you end up doing, comes back to our covenants. Thanks for that, Liz.

Hank Smith:                      00:09:40             When I invited Liz on John, she said, I’m not a scriptorian, like what do you want me to do? Bring your expertise. So here she has an expertise in athletics, her work there with students, and also in her dissertation work. I hope we hear about both of those today, Liz. Now John, I said earlier that she comes highly recommended by someone I love. If I let this opportunity pass, I don’t know if I’d be welcome back in her home. So my sister is Jennefer Johnson. She runs Women’s Conference at BYU among a lot of other things that she does there. When I was chatting with her about the show, my sister’s face doesn’t light up at every name she lists off, but I saw her light up when she said, have you thought about having Liz Darger on the show? And I said, tell me about Liz. It was about four hours later that I said, you can stop now. So Jennefer, I love you and I’m doing as I’ve been told by my older sister.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:10:37             Jen is a great nudger. She has nudged me a number of times with this opportunity and Women’s Conference opportunity. I admire her a lot. She is a remarkable, remarkable woman, and I’m grateful to be connected to her.

Hank Smith:                      00:10:50             I did a recent interview with the Come Back podcast where I got to talk about my life. I liked how it turned out, but my one regret is that I didn’t talk about my sister more. Jennefer, we love you out there, wherever you are probably doing something important. Let’s jump in. Come, Follow Me Manual. The lesson this week is “A House Unto My Name”. We are only in one section, section 124. Here’s how the manual starts. As difficult as the last six years had been for the saints, things started to look better. In the spring of 1839, the refugee saints had found compassion among the citizens of Quincy, Illinois. Guards had allowed Joseph Smith and other church leaders to escape captivity in Missouri, and the church had just purchased land in Illinois where the Saints could gather. Again, yes, it was a swampy mosquito infested land, but compared to the challenges the saints had already faced, this probably seemed manageable. So they drained the swamp and drafted a charter for a new city, which they named Nauvoo. It means beautiful in Hebrew, though it was more an expression of faith than an accurate description, at least at first. Meanwhile, the Lord is impressing his prophet with a sense of urgency. He had more truths and ordinances to restore, and he needed a holy temple where he could crown his saints with honor, immortality, and eternal life. In many ways, these same feelings of faith and urgency are evident in the Lord’s work today. What a great intro. Liz, how should we approach Section 124 in this whole lesson?

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:12:21             Well, first I think it’s important what you said, that I am not a scriptorian. I’m not a scripture scholar. This is really outside my comfort zone. I feel a fair amount of comfort and even confidence in speaking about the gospel of Jesus Christ topically, but when it’s about a block of scripture, that’s a little more on the fringe of what I’m comfortable doing, this has been really great for me to study leading up to this. I also feel like it’s a testament to the incredible people that you’ve had on your podcast over the years. I feel like sometimes I’m a listener that’s admired so many of the people that you’ve brought on, but I feel like sometimes we take for granted that week after week the remarkable gospel scholars that you have on. It’s sort of like the Olympics where the level of competition is so high that sometimes we forget how unbelievable these athletes are. If we were ever to insert an average person into one of those competitions, it would remind us really quick that these are unbelievable, incredible, incredible world-class athletes. I actually feel like I’m serving that function today, and grateful to serve that function.

Hank Smith:                      00:13:33             That is definitely not my motive behind it, but we definitely appreciate the humility. We need a little more humility around here.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:13:44             I wanna be clear. I absolutely love the scriptures, but they don’t come easy to me as I read them, as I study them. I’ve been drawn more to General Conference talks. Even growing up, way back in the day before you could just find them on the internet. My dad would have a tape recorder. He would record them off the radio live so that then he would have all these cassette tapes and he would listen to General Conference talks every morning as he got ready for work. You hear it coming from his bathroom. That’s a habit that I took on as well in my college years and beyond of listening to General Conference talks, and I love the words of our living prophets. They come a little more easily to me, but I love the scriptures. Sometimes we learn to love things more that don’t come as easily.

                                           00:14:29             For me, I feel like that’s been my adult years with the scriptures is I love them more and more, even as they continue to be challenging for me to understand. I think because the effort that’s required to be able to glean from them, it’s been a really neat preparation process. The last time I was in Nauvoo, I was in high school. It was obviously well before the temple was rebuilt, so as we talk about that vision of the temple and what that all looks like for me, I love my experience in Nauvoo, but there is a really important piece missing there, and in some ways perhaps that is how the saints felt as they were rebuilding their lives. As this revelation was received and as the prophet Joseph had been encouraging the saints saying, we need to build a temple. We need to build a temple again, that’s the Nauvoo I know in terms of my own experiences without the temple. I’m excited for the day when I can go back and participate in ordinances in the house of the Lord there.

                                           00:15:28             As we think about that rebuild process, the Saints have been rebuilding their lives a number of times now planting themselves and doing everything they could to dig in and make it a home and build a life and build the church. Then they would be driven out and needed to move and rebuild. It reminds me a little bit of in athletics sometimes you hear the term, it’s a rebuilding year for a team, and when you think of that, what at least I have in my mind is a lot of seniors have graduated or people have transferred, so there’s a little bit different expectation of what’s going to happen in that year or that season because of having to start over in some ways. This is a time in Nauvoo where there had been church leaders that had passed away and some that had apostatized and had been excommunicated, and this section, one of the things that it does is sort of build up the organization of the church again and is a rebuild in a way, certainly a rebuild in terms of building their homes and then being commanded to build a house of the Lord, and also build the Nauvoo house.

                                           00:16:33             When we think about that in those times in our lives, when we’re asked to rebuild or those seasons in our lives where it’s like, oh, it’s gonna be a rebuilding year, we lost some experience. We had some momentum, but now we’re gonna start over a little bit. Those rebuilding years can also be some of the most rewarding experiences of our life. Teams I’ve watched at BYU that have been in rebuilding years, truly, when you see the development of student athletes and the development, not only athletically but socially with each other, the leadership that’s been developed in those rebuilding years and what those student athletes have become in rebuilding years, it makes it all worth it. You recognize that sometimes that learning and growth happens the most in rebuilding years. Here in Nauvoo as they’re rebuilding their lives, the opportunity for them to learn and to grow and develop and be stretched individually, but also collectively as a body of saints.

John Bytheway:               00:17:27             Speaking of athletics, the whole idea of weight training, it was always kind of counterintuitive that you’ve worked to the point where you break it down so that you build it back up again stronger. I think about getting kicked out of Kirtland coming here and I love what you’re saying. Gotta build this back up and make it out of a swamp. Let’s start in a swamp and build this back up. They do. I noticed that you were over cross country. I think one of the most inspiring things I ever saw was that Kenneth Rooks fall down, completely fall down in a steeple chase. It was just unbelievable. Get up and actually win the race. So inspiring to watch, to know that it’s possible to come back and so much of the gospel is restorative and coming back and being rebuilt through the Savior’s gospel, so I love what you’re saying here.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:18:23             Unbelievable, unprecedented. You hear the commentators talking about it. They’ve never seen anything like it.

John Bytheway:               00:18:29             Yes.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:18:30             Talking to Kenneth afterward, what’s really fascinating and important part of that story is that he had kind of practiced that. I don’t think he physically fell down in practice, but he had the thought earlier in practice, what would happen if I fell? What would be my game plan? What would I do? He had a game plan for if he fell. When it happened, he went into new game plan mode, didn’t spend too much time worrying about what might have been just said, okay, and clicked into that new game plan and chipped away and chipped away and chipped away. Then before you knew it, he was at the front of the pack winning. I admire Kenneth so much. That was the US Championships. I was able to see him compete in the Olympics in Paris last summer, which was just an unbelievable opportunity to be there and support him and his wife was there.

                                           00:19:23             His family was there. Similarly in that race. He didn’t fall, but he has a knack for having a big, big comeback at the end. He makes things very exciting. When he got that silver medal, I don’t know that I’ve ever experienced anything like that. Being in an international stadium, literally watching the best athletes on planet earth and there is Kenneth Rooks, a return missionary, BYU, member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the amount of good that has come from that race. I love how he uses that experience to spread the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ. All of our student athletes are remarkable young people in how they do that. He’s one of the best.

Hank Smith:                      00:20:09             John, if someone doesn’t know what we’re talking about, you can go to YouTube. We can put a link to this in our show notes. The video that the church did is called Falling Is Part of the Process, Just Get Up and of course there’s a number of other videos about it as well. I don’t know if Brother Rooks listens, but wow. Yeah. Wow. It reminds me a little bit of like a forest fire, what the saints went through in Missouri. Where they are stripped of everything they own. Like you said, Liz, people are leaving the faith. Here they are this burned out forest. Here this growth starts. It’s a little bit of growth and pretty soon over time it rises up and it’s beautiful. The regrowth after a forest fire, if you’ve ever seen it, either of you, it’s beautiful. Like the phoenix rising out of the ashes.

                                           00:21:06             It’s pretty incredible to watch. As we studied earlier sections of the Doctrine & Covenants, sometimes we would have like two days between sections, this between 123 and 124. It’s been two years. For those who want to come over to our Voices of the Restoration series with Dr. Gerrit Dirkmaat, he’s gonna fill in a little bit of what happens between Liberty Jail and Nauvoo because there’s quite a bit that happens in two years. That would take us a long time to talk about that, so you can find that on our channel on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast.

John Bytheway:               00:21:42             I just love the idea of rebuilding and one of the most fun, entertaining, and powerful talks I’ve ever heard my friend Hank give was about the Provo Tabernacle. How it was basically burned from the inside out and like a Phoenix was rebuilt. It’s a jaw dropping story. It’s beautiful. I’m so glad they did that ’cause I had an experience sitting in there once that I’ll never forget. We’re seeing that metaphor playing out here. I don’t know if this is important or not, but for me it was, oh, I always thought Nauvoo was swampy because it was right next to the Mississippi River. What I didn’t know is that actually there were springs in there that made it swampy, but it made the drainage easy. If you just dug a a ditch to drain the swamp because it would just drain right into the Mississippi. Some of those ditches are still there. I think you could still see remnants of some of those drains, so they took what they had. They took the swamp and turned it into something beautiful. It’s just part of the, another beautiful story. Liz, what do you wanna do next?

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:22:56             Let’s actually start in verse one.

Hank Smith:                      00:23:00             It’s always a good place to start.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:23:01             It’s always a good place to start.

John Bytheway:               00:23:04             The starting line.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:23:06              John, would you be willing to read verses one and two?

John Bytheway:               00:23:10             Be happy to. Okay, so we’re in section 124 verse one and two, Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Joseph Smith, I am well pleased with your offering and acknowledgments, which you have made; for unto this end have I raised you up, that I might show forth my wisdom through the weak things of the earth. Your prayers are acceptable before me; and in answer to them I say unto you, that you are now called immediately to make a solemn proclamation of my gospel, and of this stake which I have planted to be a cornerstone of Zion, which shall be polished with the refinement which is after the similitude of a palace.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:23:49             I love that the Lord acknowledges Joseph here, gives him that positive reinforcement saying that I’m pleased with you. You’re on the right track. Your prayers are acceptable. I love that at the end of verse one where he says that I might show forth my wisdom through the weak things of the earth, it’s sort of this is that a backhanded compliment or what? When you think about Joseph, humility really was one of his incredible strengths. The fact that he knew he was reliant on the Lord meant that he was teachable and that the Lord could trust him to follow through on what he was asked. Humility was an incredible strength. Being called weak, I don’t think would’ve bothered Joseph at all because he would acknowledge that sometimes we don’t define humility in quite the right way. Sometimes there could be a a false humility.

                                           00:24:48             We all have strengths that we’ve cultivated over time. We all have spiritual gifts that God has endowed us with. To not acknowledge them or to dismiss them, I believe actually is offensive to God. It’s not a matter of if someone were to give you a compliment or to say, you’re really good at this. It’s not a matter of dismissing. You’re like, no, I’m not, or no, that’s not accurate because I actually think that God can be offended by that, but it’s acknowledging where those gifts come from and it’s acknowledging that they come from God, giving him the credit for spiritual gifts, strengths that we work to cultivate. On the church’s website, if you look up humility, it says, to be humble is to recognize gratefully our dependence on the Lord. To understand that we have constant need for his support. Humility is an acknowledgement that our talents and abilities are gifts from God. It’s not a sign of weakness, timidity, or fear. It is an indication that we know where our true strength lies. We can be both humble and fearless. We can be both humble and courageous. When I read that about humility, I think of Joseph Smith. I think of his incredible humility. It is because of that humility that him being called weak, really, I think he’s humble. That means that the Lord can use him.

Hank Smith:                      00:26:15             Can you imagine publishing this? I mean, I like how you said as a backhanded compliment. It’s almost as if the Lord is saying, look, I chose you so everyone would know it was me. Right? Like I looked around to find the one guy that everyone thought, no way. Everyone will know. That’s the guy I chose. It’s kinda like Nauvoo, right? I’m gonna find the one place that nobody wants to find live, find a

John Bytheway:               00:26:37             I’m gonna find a swamp that nobody

Hank Smith:                      00:26:39             We’re gonna make that beautiful. The fact that you publish that tells you something about him. This opens up with, I chose you because you are the one that nobody thought could do this, and look at you. You’re doing it and your prayers are acceptable. Sometimes we get this picture of Joseph Smith from his critics that he’s this dictator know it all. This is what he publishes. John, didn’t it start out this way? I think the very first revelation is section three that the Lord pretty much says the same thing.

John Bytheway:               00:27:14             Yeah.

Hank Smith:                      00:27:15             You have a lot of repenting to do. Well, Liz, you’re right on. It tells us something about Joseph Smith. Just here in this first verse.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:27:22             It reminds me of the very first meeting that I had as a member of the Young Women General Advisory Council. It was called the Board at the time of my call. President Bonnie Cordon gathered us together and gave some counsel that I will never forget. She said, you know, you’ve all been called for a specific purpose at this time and how you’ve lived your lives up to this point. You all are well educated and you’ve had neat experiences and you have relationships and ideas and opinions. A lot of really good things that are going to help you in this calling except I wanna encourage you to take your education, take your experiences, take your ideas, take your opinions, and put them in a box and put a bow on it and put it on the shelf, and I want you to open yourself up to the revelation you are going to receive in this calling.

                                           00:28:12             She said, sometimes that revelation that you receive from the Holy Ghost will tell you to actually take the box off the shelf and open it up and pull out an idea. Pull out an experience you’ve had, pull out something from your education, pull out an opinion, whatever it is, but sometimes the revelation you receive will have nothing to do with what’s in the box. If you focus too much on what’s in the box, your own ideas, your own experiences, your own education, then you can miss out on the other revelation. But if you focus on receiving the revelation, you’re never gonna miss out on when the Lord needs you to pull something out of the box and share it. I think that is such wise counsel and here with Joseph, who again, is so receptive to whatever needs to be done, and in some ways perhaps his lack of education is a strength because he’s not just going back to the well with what he knows, thinking that he knows it all. He is fully reliant on the Lord. Sometimes when we have had opportunities for education or had a lot of unique experiences in our lives, perhaps we can rely on those and not be open to revelation that we’ll receive that may actually be counter to something that would match up with the education we’ve received. We need to focus on that revelation, focus on what we hear from the Holy Ghost.

Hank Smith:                      00:29:30             I remember when President Hinckley would talk about the young Joseph Smith. He would say the uncluttered mind of a boy that the Lord wanted this because maybe us as adults we’re a little cluttered in our minds.

John Bytheway:               00:29:44             I’m thinking about all the times in the Book of Mormon. I didn’t do this after the manner of men, but I did this after the manner that God showed me. It was like, oh, that was different than what I would’ve done I like what you said, Liz, President Cordon saying, be open to maybe the way the Lord wants it done. Maybe sometimes you’ll use your experience, but sometimes the Lord might have a different way. I like that.

Hank Smith:                      00:30:06             One thing I’ve noticed in studying these sections is that Joseph Smith changes after Liberty Jail. Alex Baugh said it this way. He said, from 1820 to 1830, he’s a little bit timid. From 1830 to 1840, he’s courageous. Then he said, after Liberty Jail from 1840 to 1844, he is fearless. As I’m reading this, this proclamation he writes, shall be made to the kings of the world.

John Bytheway:               00:30:37             I know. I know.

Hank Smith:                      00:30:40             To the president-elect of the United States to high-minded governors of the nation. I mean, that is fearless. Here’s who I’m writing to.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:30:49             I love that. Joseph is asked to write a proclamation. When we think about proclamations to the world, the church has made six proclamations to the world in its history, at least according to the Deseret News. The first proclamation was a proclamation of the First Presidency to the saints scattered abroad in January 15th, 1841, so actually really near the time that this revelation was received. The second one was the proclamation of the Twelve Apostles issued April 6th, 1845. That’s the one that came as a result of this to Joseph, although it came after he had passed away, and it was written by Parley P. Pratt. The third proclamation was given in 1865. The fourth proclamation was given in April 6th, 1980.

Hank Smith:                      00:31:41             Wow. I didn’t know about all these.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:31:44             The sixth proclamation I hope we’re very familiar with is The Family: A Proclamation to the World, which was given in 1995 and then the most recent proclamation to the world, The Restoration of the Fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, a bicentennial proclamation to the world, which was given April 5th, 2020 by President Nelson, these official proclamations to the world. It’s interesting to think there have only been that many. There have been three in my lifetime, two that have been a part really of my life as an adult really have helped shaped my testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Going back to Joseph being asked to make this proclamation in verse four, it says how he’s being asked to give it. It says, let it be written in the spirit of meekness and by the power of the Holy Ghost, which shall be in you at the time of the writing of the same.

                                           00:32:37             For it shall be given you by the Holy Ghost to know my will concerning those kings and authorities, even what shall befall them in a time to come. We talked a little bit about humility and talking now about meekness. That’s a word that Elder Bednar has given some interesting instruction on. He gave an excellent talk in April of 2018 called Meek and Lowly of Heart. He says, meekness is a defining attribute of the Redeemer and is distinguished by righteous responsiveness, willing submissiveness, and strong self-restraint. As we think about that and Joseph being commanded to give this proclamation in a spirit of meekness, righteous responsiveness, willing submissiveness, and strong self restraint, I think that’s instructive to us. Joseph, who is very humble also the Lord giving them that instruction to do it according to the Holy Ghost, not what he would want, not what he would think necessarily, but to be open to the Holy Ghost in giving that proclamation, although it wasn’t given until after he passed away.

                                           00:33:50             You think about then the result of that proclamation, which was reaffirmed by President Benson years later, so in October of 1975, he was the President of the Council of the Twelve Apostles. He gave a General Conference talk titled A Message to the World. He quoted from this proclamation that Parley P. Pratt wrote. I wanna read just a little bit of it. It’s kind of a cool thing in the spirit of this divine direction. On the sixth day of April, 1845 and shortly after the prophet Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum had mingled their blood with that of the other martyrs of true religion, The Council of the Twelve made such a proclamation. They address it to all the kings of the world, to the President of the United States of America, to the governors of the several states and to the rulers and people of all nations. President Benson then goes on to quote from the proclamation, I’ll just read a little of it. And to the rulers and people of all nations, and in it they said, know ye that the kingdom of God has come and has been predicted by ancient prophets and prayed for in all ages, even that kingdom which shall fill the whole earth and which shall stand forever, and then it goes on and on and on and on.

                                           00:35:04             It’s really fabulous. I encourage anyone that would like to study that General Conference talk by President Benson, but then he goes on and after he quotes much from that proclamation, he says, it seems fitting and proper to me that we should reaffirm the great truths pronounced in this declaration and that we should proclaim them anew to the world. Then President Benson goes on and he reaffirms in his own words the very truth. I just wanna read one part of that. He’s declared again that the truthfulness of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is back on the earth, and he says, therefore, as humble servants of the Lord, we call upon the leaders of nations to humble themselves before God, to seek his inspiration and guidance. We call upon rulers and people alike to repent of their evil ways, turn unto the Lord, seek his forgiveness, and unite yourselves in humility with his kingdom. There is no other way.

Hank Smith:                      00:36:01             This is again, another moment that we’ve had on our show where I am completely ignorant of something.

John Bytheway:               00:36:06             And slightly embarrassed.

Hank Smith:                      00:36:08             Yeah. I have done this for a long time and I have never heard of this, nor read it, but I’m looking at a piece of it right now. Listen to this, he’s talking to the kings and rulers of the people. You are not only required to repent and obey the gospel in its fullness and thus become members or citizens of the kingdom of God, but you are also hereby commanded in the name of Jesus Christ to put your silver and your gold, your ships and your steam vessels, your railroad trains and your horses, chariots, camels, mules, and litters into active use for the fulfillment of these purposes. Wow. This is incredible stuff. John you usually call it audacious.

John Bytheway:               00:36:50             Yeah. Who are these people that are this little group next to the Mississippi that are making a proclamation to the kings and the president-elect and high-minded governors? Okay, everybody listen up. Wow. Even this early.

Hank Smith:                      00:37:07             Yeah. Liz, as you’ve been showing us this, I keyed in on that what you showed us, let it be written in the spirit of meekness, and I wonder if the Lord is reminding Joseph and the the rest of the saints that if you’re gonna write to these government leaders, this government so far has not helped you at all. You are driven out of your own property. You paid for it. You’re driven away from it by gunpoint, and the government did nothing for you, and it’s because of what you believe. So I think the Lord is saying, let’s not go right at them with these insults. I know Joseph has a tendency to do this. I know Parley does as well. Maybe Brigham too, so control your emotions maybe when it comes to this.

John Bytheway:               00:37:55             I like what Liz quoted the entry under, was it humility in the Bible Dictionary? What did it say? You can be humble and fearless. You can be humble and courageous at the same time. I love that.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:38:07             Thinking about this proclamation and how does this apply to our lives. I have a niece and a nephew that are both serving missions right now, and I didn’t serve a full-time mission myself, so receiving their emails weekly and hearing from them has been a really neat experience, and I have never been married and don’t have my own kids, and so I really live my life through my nieces and nephews, and this is my oldest niece and oldest nephew, so I feel like I’ve lost my firstborn in a way, having them off in these places. I asked my niece Eva recently who’s serving in the Denver North Mission, Spanish speaking. I told her that I was studying section 124. I asked her what it means to her to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I wanna read what she sent back to me.

                                           00:38:57             To me, this opportunity to serve full time and devote everything to the Savior is such a priceless gift. It goes by so fast, and this is the only time in my life that I will be completely focused and devoted to serving the Lord and gathering Israel. Every interaction, every passing word, every smile to a stranger. I’m striving to be a disciple of Christ and bring others closer to him. My missionary purpose is to invite others to come unto Christ by helping them receive the restored gospel through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost and enduring to the end. Then she goes on to say, in the Colorado Denver North Mission, we link our enthusiasm with the stability and loving efforts of the members. My job is to invite, everybody has their agency to accept or deny the gospel, but I can control my efforts in inviting everybody I possibly can in helping to support them in exercising their faith and turning to Christ. And reading that from my niece Eva, and thinking about the young adults of the church that are going out in record number all over the world to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. It just is inspiring to me.

                                           00:40:12             John, you talked earlier about here’s this little tiny church saying we’re gonna make this proclamation and and the audacity of it all. In some ways, it’s like the audacity of these 18, 19, 20 year olds as well to go out as representatives of Jesus Christ and to proclaim that the gospel has been restored on the earth. I love that these young people go out and give their all and proclaim what the gospel of Jesus Christ means to them. I believe they also do it in meekness and humility. All of us as disciples of Jesus Christ have been asked to proclaim the gospel. I love how Elder Uchtdorf encouraged us to do it in normal and natural ways. Working in college athletics there have been some neat opportunities over the years to do that. I see our student athletes do that. The fact that we don’t compete on Sundays has provided some normal and natural ways to talk about the Sabbath day.

                                           00:41:15             Our soccer team, a number of years ago, had made it to the College Cup. The schedule from the NCAA would be that the championship game would be played on Sunday. When we won our semi-final game, the NCAA currently has a policy carve out for us that if one of our teams makes that championship, that they would move that game to Monday. That happened, which was pretty unprecedented. So on Sunday as a team and I was able to be with them, we were able to attend church and attend a local ward in Northern California, participate with that ward, that opportunity to worship together on the Sabbath, to not even practice in preparation for a championship game the next day, but that opportunity to renew our covenants and then the opportunity to proclaim through how we spent our time that day, our belief in the Sabbath day, to be able to answer questions that people had about why it’s so important to us.

                                           00:42:16             We’re the only school in Division one athletics that does not compete on Sunday. Those opportunities that our student athletes have as teams, but also individually as an athletic department, we are working really hard to use the platform we’ve been given to proclaim the restored gospel of Jesus Christ to give our athletes the platform to proclaim that on social media, through holidays. On the Sabbath day, we invite our student athletes to share their thoughts about the gospel of Jesus Christ and to share their experiences from their missions. There have been some really neat opportunities for our student athletes. I’ll share one. We had a few student athletes that represented BYU at a Big 12 leadership conference, so there were student athletes from every Big 12 school. There were a lot of questions asked of our student athletes about their religion. The conference happened over a Sunday and our student athletes asked if they could be excused for an hour to go and attend church and partake of the sacrament, which brought up a lot of very sincere questions from people from the other schools, and then a student athlete actually asked if they could attend with our student athletes and so went and went to church.

                                           00:43:30             That’s a normal and natural thing. They’re not looking to make it a big deal, but they’re just saying, Hey, on Sunday, I like to go take of the sacrament. Could I be excused for a little bit to go do this? They were met with great respect and with very sincere questions and had opportunities then to proclaim their belief. Right now I serve on the NCAA Women’s Basketball Committee, which is a committee of 12 athletic administrators from around the country. Last year during March Madness, we’re on the road pretty much that entire month. We finished selections, we choose who makes it to the NCAA tournament, then we go right into being sent to the different sites to oversee the tournament. You get a few days off in between, but truly you’re on the road for about four weeks straight. I knew that there would be some responsibilities that would fall over Sunday.

                                           00:44:18             My family has always felt very strongly since I was a little girl, if we always attend church on Sunday, it doesn’t matter where we are in the world. If we’re on vacation, we take the sacrament. That’s been a priority since I was very young. Really for the most part, even when I travel a lot for work or other things, I’ve been able to make that happen. But I was a little nervous about this assignment being gone that many weeks in a row where I really don’t have much control over my schedule. I was in Indianapolis working on selections, so they sequester you in a room at a hotel for a week with the committee and you are going through all the data watching games and deciding who was gonna make it to the NCAA tournament. It’s a pretty intense process. There’s a woman on the committee who is Catholic.

                                           00:45:02             She’s been on the committee a number of years. She and I have had some good conversations throughout the year, early in the week we were at a meal. I just felt prompted to ask her and I said, Hey, tell me how you worship in the month of March. What does that look like for you? When we’re on these assignments for a month and we’re not really at home and we’re, it’s kind of 24/7, what does worship look like for you? She talked about how important it is for her to always attend mass. She finds a way to see if she can attend mass wherever she’s assigned, and talk to whoever she needs to talk to to see if she can sneak away for a little bit to attend mass, and she just said, what about you? What will worship look like for you? And I said, well, that’s one of the reasons I’m asking you.

                                           00:45:42             I’m trying to figure out what that might look like for me. I said, this upcoming Sunday, we will be continuing in some of these responsibilities. There was not a local sacrament meeting close enough to me that I felt like I may be able to get there on time and get back. We had this conversation and I explained to her, I was able to show her the app where I could search for a church. I explained that I was actually able to find a bishop and text a local bishop and she said, you texted a bishop. I said, well, our bishops might look a little different than your bishops and a sweet bishop in Indianapolis was willing to arrange for me to partake of the sacrament, which was a really neat experience to go and do that. The men that actually blessed the sacrament for me, one of them was a new convert and it was the first time he’d ever blessed the sacrament.

John Bytheway:               00:46:30             Oh, wow.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:46:31             So that was a really neat experience and then a member of the bishopric said afterward, thank you for asking. That provided this brother an opportunity to bless the sacrament for the first time. It was this private occasion. I get back to meetings. My friend said, Hey, were you, were you able to take your sacrament? I said, yes, and I told her a little about the experience that bonded us in a way of having our faith that’s so important to us and opened up other conversations again in very normal and natural ways. While I as a, not a full-time missionary, not a prophet seer revelator and not someone that’s being asked to proclaim things on behalf of the church, but in my everyday life I can proclaim the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I can find normal and natural ways to connect with other people.

                                           00:47:21             What I have found, especially in my NCAA service, the farther away I get from Utah, the less familiar people are with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the more intrigued they are by it. There’s a lot of really intriguing things about our church and about our beliefs. There have been some very meaningful conversations that I’ve been able to have with people where I’ve been able to express my beliefs in a spirit of, in a space of respect and been able to proclaim to others the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and that’s something I think that we can all do in our everyday lives.

Hank Smith:                      00:47:53             Wow, what a fantastic story. With you chairing that committee. There’s probably gonna be more opportunities. Everyone’s gonna, who’s our fearless leader here. They’ll probably have a lot of questions for you. I bet this is a girl you know Liz, at least have met Ella Pope. Do both of you remember when President Cordon was speaking in General Conference and she talked about Ella Pope receiving her mission call, she decided to open her mission call in front of her Ohio University Bobcat teammates, none of whom are members of the church. President Cordon said they knew almost nothing about the church of Jesus Christ and didn’t understand Ella’s desire to serve. She prayed repeatedly how to explain her mission call in a way that her teammates may feel the Spirit. Her answer, I made a PowerPoint. Ella said because I’m just that cool.

                                           00:48:55             In her PowerPoint, she told them about the potential of serving in one of the 400 plus missions she might have to learn a language. She highlighted the thousands of missionaries already serving. She ended with a picture of the Savior and a testimony. She said, basketball is one of the most important things in my life. I moved across the country, I left my family to play for this coach and with this team, the only two things that are more important to me than basketball are my faith and my family. She opens her mission call there with the team, and if I remember, I heard her dad, coach Mark Pope talking about this at an education conference. This wasn’t a team that was very friendly to her at first about her faith. Her coach, Bob Bolden, not a member, said this. We are excited for Ella and happy for her. We knew that this was a possibility in the recruiting process and we encouraged it. This is something that is very important to Ella and we want what is best for her. We want all of our student athletes to follow their passions. What a courageous, very natural thing to do. This is my team. This is a huge thing for me. Why don’t I involve you in this. Liz I think you’re right on that athletics, there are opportunities to share. I think you maybe call it a sport light. You got the sport light on you.

John Bytheway:               00:50:16             Spotlight. That’s good.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:50:18             In some ways in the United States right now, it feels like sports is a little bit of a religion for some people.

Hank Smith:                      00:50:23             Yeah.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:50:24             Hopefully it never overtakes our religion for Latter-day Saints we’ve gotta keep those priorities straight. Because of that there’s this avenue for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at BYU Athletics, we really do feel like we have a part of the gathering of Israel on both sides of the veil, playing our part within Brigham Young University in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to prominently promote the church to inspire others through competitive excellence by living the values taught by Jesus Christ. And because sports gets into homes that someone may not answer a door to some missionaries, but maybe they’re turning on ESPN and watching a game and seeing BYU compete and hearing about a mission that somebody served or hearing about that somebody’s married and has a child and is a father at a young age and why, what that looks like, that they can learn what make our student athletes unique and learn why they have so many other things that they care about in their life beside their sport at a time in their life when most athletes are, their focus is absolutely, I’m going all in just in my sport. And maybe academics too. With our student athletes there’s this whole other component of their family and of their faith and we have student athletes that have callings that are serving as Relief Society Presidents and in addition to running on a national championship team, getting all A’s in their classes, it’s remarkable what they do. That intrigues people hearing about these student athletes and seeing the light in their eyes and saying, I wanna understand that. That’s interesting. I wanna understand more about that.

Hank Smith:                      00:51:57             We had Noelle here a couple of weeks ago. Noelle Pikus Pace. She talked about getting, what was it, the moment of the Olympics when she won and there she had her young women’s medallion on. John, Liz, I don’t know if either of you read this article by Aaron Shill a decade and a half ago. This man’s name is Jason Sheridan. This is who Aaron Shill wrote about Jason Sheridan. He’s a former Marine and a New York State trooper who joins the church because his favorite team, the Miami Dolphins selected John Beck in the 2007 NFL draft. He’s a big time fan and he starts researching, who is this John Beck? John occasionally listens to the show. We’ve heard from John a couple of times. He said, obviously he didn’t join the church because of John Beck, but that was the catalyst. He started listening to President Hinckley, started watching BYUTV, then ended up getting a copy of the Book of Mormon. He says, quote, I am sucked into this. Like it’s the best thing I’ve ever read. He ends up being baptized. It’s just incredible what our influence can have when we do our best at our expertise, whether that be athletics or anything else. People say what is that? I wanna know about that. And they go look into it for themselves. And then the Book of Mormon takes over. It’s power.

John Bytheway:               00:53:31             Earlier today I was listening to the radio. I heard a replay of a portion of a Chad Lewis devotional. He gave at BYU and I know Chad’s a colleague of yours Liz does a similar thing. He’s an associate athletic director too. Talked about sharing your light in the different ways that athletes can and it was really fun to hear and I remember him talking about a chance to be a commentator on the Super Bowl in Chinese and Chad Lewis said that his vocabulary was religious vocabulary, but he was saying things like, I testify that Tom Brady throws true passes. You know, right? So that’s what it sounded like in Chinese. It was a great little excerpt to hear Chad Lewis talk about that normal, natural way in his circles. How he could share in his circles things that meant so much to him.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:54:27             Chad is an incredible ambassador of BYU and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That’s actually part of our athletic department mission, is that we want to help our student athletes become ambassadors for good. Chad is a great example of one of those ambassadors for good that in his sphere of influence has helped bring more light to the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, to sharing his light.

Hank Smith:                      00:54:58             On a side note, John, who was it that told us the story of him, he was in like a national TV and they said, you can speak Mandarin Chinese? Yeah. Well say something. And so he on national TV, he recited section four of the Doctrine & Covenants.

John Bytheway:               00:55:11             Let’s see. A marvelous work is about to come forth among the children of men. That guy has an energy and a joy about him. I just love Chad. He’s so great.

Hank Smith:                      00:55:23             Liz, I love this. I think all of our listeners will be excited to know that there’s you and like-minded people at BYU who know this is part of our mission to proclaim the gospel in this arena that we have.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:55:39             That really starts at the top for us. Brian Santiago, our new athletic director, from his very first discussions with our department, has talked about the importance of that. That we don’t just align with BYU and the Church. We prominently promote it, but also we have to be excellent. God cares about us and wants us to develop and be great in all the ways and developing our gifts and talents. That includes athletics, that includes career pursuits, that includes hobbies. He can use us in more ways when we are excellent at what we do, our sphere of influence can grow. We can have the greatest student athletes on planet earth that are so good and so kind and have testimonies of the gospel. But if we don’t compete at a high level to win, then the world won’t be watching. The world is watching because our teams are winning because our student athletes and our coaches are exceptional at what they do. That then helps provide the platform to give one of the big reasons why our student athletes and coaches are successful and why they’re different is because of our knowledge of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

Hank Smith:                      00:56:51             And it really is that way with a lot of our areas of expertise. If we want to proclaim the gospel using that area, you better be excellent in that area no matter what. It’s that message speaks for itself, especially at BYU Liz, where we decide, Hey, we’re gonna do things differently than most universities. It better work. Kinda like Daniel saying, no, I’m not gonna eat the king’s meat. I’m gonna do it this way. And it works. It ends up being better, it better work, or it doesn’t look good as a message, right?

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:57:21             We believe that really is our competitive advantage. That’s our competitive advantage, is that we do things differently. That we do things aligned with our Prophet, Seers and Revelators and our university leadership. We’re gonna compete with the best, but we’re gonna do it in a different way. It’s a neat time to be a part of it.

Hank Smith:                      00:57:38             I work for BYU as Liz does. I don’t wanna come out here saying BYU is perfect. We’re not. It’s not.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:57:43             We’re not.

Hank Smith:                      00:57:44             But these are good kids who are really trying to help BYU in its mission. They’re young and they are wonderful.

John Bytheway:               00:57:53             I have a niece who is a cross country runner up at Weber State right now. There are good kids everywhere. Wherever you go, let your light shine where you are. Because that’ll be a platform for you to let your light shine in normal and natural ways.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:58:09             Brigham Young said once, it is the duty of a saint of God to gain all the influence they can on the earth and to use it for good. To your point, John, wherever you are, be excellent and let your light shine. That influence will grow. Each of us have a sphere of influence. For some of us that’s our home or some it’s our neighborhood. For some it’s our work, community, social media, whatever that sphere is. But how are we within our sphere of influence, letting our light shine?

John Bytheway:               00:58:41             Like that story you shared, Hank of Sister Pope opening her mission call at Ohio University, wherever you are, that’s an influence for good.

Hank Smith:                      00:58:50             This conversation leans towards BYU ’cause the three of us work, all three of us work for BYU and since we have Liz here, we’re obviously gonna talk about her expertise and where her job is, but we’re talking athletes and every job everywhere, no matter the university, no matter the employment. I have a brother-in-law, Derek Booth. He is a secret service agent. When he is excellent at his work, others take notice and they want to know what is he doing on Sunday? Why can’t he work? Well, he’s the bishop of his ward and he gets to explain the the wonderful role of a bishop. I love the way you took this, this proclamation with a loud proclamation. I’d never heard that quote from Brigham Young. Get as much influence as you can and use it. Beautiful. Liz, we’ve had you for a while and we’re only seven verses in. What should we do next?

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:59:46             Well, don’t worry, there’s only like 140 verses.

Hank Smith:                      00:59:48             Yeah, so

Dr. Liz Darger:                  00:59:49             We’ll, we’ll be here for five or six hours. No, I’m kidding. I would love for us next to talk about the Nauvoo house, which is a really, really interesting thought. Let’s go first to verse 22. Hank, are you willing to read verses 22 through 24?

Hank Smith:                      01:00:05             You got it. All right. This is 124 verse 22. Let my servant George and that’s George Miller from verse 20. And my servant Lyman, Lyman White and my servant John Snider and others build a house unto my name, such as one as my servant Joseph shall show unto them upon the place which he shall show unto them also. And it shall be for a house, for boarding, a house that strangers may come from afar to lodge therein. Therefore, let it be a good house worthy of all acceptation that the weary traveler may find health and safety while he shall contemplate the word of the Lord and the cornerstone I have appointed for Zion. This house shall be a healthful habitation if it be built unto my name, and if the governor, which shall be appointed unto it shall not suffer any pollution to come upon it, it shall be holy or the Lord your God will not dwell therein. I love it. We’re gonna build a hotel.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  01:01:01             So we’re gonna build a hotel in Nauvoo for the weary traveler. What stands out to me about this, we’re gonna talk a little bit later about the temple, is that the Lord cares about dwellings. The people have been building up their own homes here. The Lord says, build a house unto me. Build a temple, but also build a place that visitors can dwell. The Lord really cares that people have a place where they can rest, where they can be safe, where they can seek refuge, and it’s not just about us, it’s about others as well. My mom growing up there gave a fabulous family home eating lesson about creating a home court advantage in our home or a home field advantage in our home. She knew we liked sports, so she went on that theme. But what does that mean in sports, having a home court or home field advantage? You’re playing in a place that feels familiar or feels comfortable, where you feel welcome, where you feel like people are on your side, that they’re cheering you on and encouraging you in sports.

                                           01:02:06             That’s a real thing. That home court, home field advantage. How do we build that in our own homes here, the Nauvoo house, having a place where visitors, weary travelers can come and feel like they’re at home, that they are safe, that they are welcomed, that they can contemplate the important things of the world in a place where they can be taken care of. That’s beautiful. To think that that was important enough to the Lord, that there really was equal work and effort put into building up the Nauvoo house in addition to the temple until the very end where it looked like they wouldn’t be able to complete both and then the focus turned to the temple, but there was equal importance put on both of those dwellings.

John Bytheway:               01:02:51             Not every guest that comes to, today Salt Lake City, can go through the temple, but can we have a place for them where they feel at home. Temple requires a recommended and things, but they can come, they can feel safe. Like you said, it’s a really interesting thought. I found a statement from Joseph Smith where he said, it is important that the Nauvoo House should be finished, that we may have a suitable place wherein to entertain the great ones of the earth and teach them the truth. It’s a place where we have a chance to share what we’re all about.

Hank Smith:                      01:03:27             This almost feels like a how to win friends and influence people. This section. When people come visit Nauvoo have a wonderful place for them to come and sit. Then they can think about the many messages they’re receiving while they’re here. You think of weary traveler that might not just be physical, it might be spiritual. People may be spiritually weary and they find health and safety with the saints. I really like that, Liz. I know we’ve been talking about BYU a lot, but we’re a pretty good team to play when people come to campus. I know it’s not the Nauvoo house, but they’re treated very well. Of course we want to beat them, but other than that, we want to treat them really well.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  01:04:09             We take great pride in being hospitable and that we want to really roll out the red carpet for our visitors, let them see what we are about. They’re the little things like at a football game where our alumni association hands out ice cream to the visiting team fans between the first and second quarter to opening up our venues to take tours and have people go on tours when they come to visit. There are some jokes, a little bit, about the amount of sweets that we have at our games between the Cougartail or the mint brownie, whatever it is. But people, again, are intrigued by those things because they won’t get a cup of coffee and we don’t sell alcohol at our games, but we have these other offerings that we can give them. We feel very strongly that we want BYU to be a place where people come and they know that their humanity is going to be respected even in the way that we treat the competition, the way we treat their fans. We want it to be a place that we all can enjoy watching good competition and then be friends afterward.

John Bytheway:               01:05:11             Yeah, and I know that BYUTV even makes a movie, I think, about somebody from the opposing university, a famous alumni or athlete or something. It makes a feature film for them to honor and respect them and I thought, wow, look at that. That’s pretty good.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  01:05:28             To that point as well, when we play on the road, we have service projects for the BYU alumni to help the communities where we are going to visit, trying to be good community members that way as as we enter a community to help build that community as well. So there are those things that make us stand out and and be different. I think of our opportunity as well, and I live in Utah, but with the Salt Lake City Temple open house that will be coming shortly. The church is making great efforts to think through welcoming the world for a six month open house for the Salt Lake Temple. While I don’t know if there are plans to build any hotels necessarily but there certainly are a lot of plans with the visitor centers that are being thought through wanting to be a place where when the world comes and has an opportunity to walk through that temple before it’s dedicated to be able to learn and ponder the important things in life and to feel welcome and to feel safe and to be able to learn more about what we do in the house of the Lord.

                                           01:06:38             Whether we live near Salt Lake City or not, what are we doing to create that feeling of hospitality for those that visit, we say visitors welcome on our buildings. It’s one thing to put it up on a sign. It’s another thing for people to feel it when they step inside our chapels. That’s not just for visitors, that’s for our own members of our congregation. We say everybody’s welcome. What are we doing when people step inside to walk that walk, not just talk the talk.

Hank Smith:                      01:07:08             What’s interesting is it sounds like lots of people are gonna come to Nauvoo and you might think, well they didn’t. Joseph Smith is killed and the saints go to Salt Lake. If you back up and have a longer perspective. Now, how many people visit Nauvoo? They’re welcome there. The Lord has a long game in mind here when he says, let’s bring the weary traveler to Nauvoo.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  01:07:35             The next section’s about building a house of the Lord. At the end of verse 27, it says, and build a house to my name for the most high to dwell therein. Then in 28, for there is not a place found on earth that he may come to and restore again that which was lost unto you or which he had taken away even the fullness of the priesthood. It goes on and we will talk about baptisms for the dead and then these higher ordinances that were revealed, the Nauvoo temple was going to be different than the Kirtland temple in terms of what would take place and happen there.

Hank Smith:                      01:08:12             Liz and John, wouldn’t you both be just going, again? right? Like, yeah. Okay, let’s do this again. we tried to build one in Independence, couldn’t. We finished one in Kirtland. Far West, we started again. The Lord is like, let’s do it again. This is so important to him.

John Bytheway:               01:08:32             I may be jumping ahead, but when you walk down the trail of hope, the road that you’re walking down to go to the Mississippi to leave Nauvoo, I think of them turning back and seeing that temple, this incredible amount of sacrifice and to build that and having to walk away from it. They had to leave Kirtland. Now they’re here they’ve tried Far West and wow, let’s do it again. Makes my trial seem a little easier when I think of building things and walking away from them like that.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  01:09:07             John, would you mind reading verse 40?

John Bytheway:               01:09:09             Yes. Section 124 verse 40 and verily I say unto you, let this house be built unto my name that I may reveal mine ordinances therein unto my people.

Dr. Liz Darger:                  01:09:23             This again is a little bit different than the Kirtland temple. There are these ordinances revealed, including baptisms for the dead. The Lord actually gave them a time period where it was acceptable to do baptism for the dead outside of the temple, a temporary time, but then said that he had allotted an amount of time where they need to build up the temple, that that’s where those baptisms for our ancestors belong. The idea of opportunities for our deceased ancestors to be able to accept ordinances, the idea that we can serve as proxy is one of those tender doctrines. One that I found has opened up some really neat conversations with those not of our faith. Earlier this summer, I was in Philadelphia for meetings with the NCAA Women’s Basketball Committee. I’d never been to Philadelphia. When I got there, the hotel was literally across the street from the temple.

                                           01:10:26             Well, I looked up the schedule to see and figured out I would be able to do a temple session while I was there and I had a friend that came from New York to meet me, and so it was, it was gonna be a great thing. Well, one night as a committee we were driving to dinner. We drive right past the temple and I said, on your right is a temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I’m going to be able to participate in a session there tomorrow night with a friend. One of the staff members with the NCAA said, oh, that’s, that’s great. Tell us more about that. What does that mean? Participate in a session, what do you do there? So it was one of those times where I’ve realized I’m explaining something that I know in my heart, but I haven’t maybe verbalized in quite that way before.

                                           01:11:10             So I found myself explaining, saying temples are houses of the Lord. We make covenants at baptism. Then when we are older, we can choose to make additional covenants with God that bind us closer to him and receive ordinances. I told them that I did that when I was 25 years old. Now, every time I go back, I am able to participate as proxy to participate again in those ordinances and make covenants on behalf of a deceased ancestor. I pulled up the Family Tree app and showed them and said, there’s a reason that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints care a lot about family history. Because we believe in giving that opportunity for everybody that’s passed on to be able to accept those ordinances. I actually showed them the name who I would be serving as proxy for the next day, showed them how we were connected and as I was explaining this, a member of the committee was very intrigued by that and like, that’s really interesting that the way that you would be connected.

                                           01:12:14             And then I went on to talk about sealings that really to seal the whole human family together, that there was another member of the NCAA that I was speaking with about this who really appreciated that point of doctrine of ours. That we would be doing something on behalf of our ancestors that they couldn’t do for themselves, our ancestors that have done so much for us. And I explained that I really had pioneer ancestry kind of all over my family tree and that the stories of faith and sacrifice and everything that they sacrificed in their time that now has allowed me to be born in the covenant and have these opportunities of churches and temples and the Book of Mormon and prophets and revelators because of their sacrifice. But that’s a small way that I can pay them back, is to do something for them that they couldn’t do for themselves and for my friend from the NCAA that was so meaningful to her and very tender for her, she is someone that cares deeply about us honoring the generations before and honoring the earth and the land on which we live.

                                           01:13:26             For her, that felt like great respect and a way to honor our ancestors was to serve them in this way through ancestral baptism. Nauvoo is where that all started. To think that we continue to have that opportunity and that responsibility, but also what an incredible double blessing that when we go to the house of the Lord, we not only are providing an opportunity for our deceased ancestors, so there’s a blessing there, but we have the opportunity to be reminded of our covenants. That’s this sort of double bonus. And I love that. That’s how the gospel of Jesus Christ is set up and the plan of salvation, exaltation is set up is that we all need each other and when we help each other, we actually get the blessings and our Savior is the perfect example of that in his teachings and in his life of the first shall be last, the last shall be first. Anytime that we serve others, we are serving him.