John Bytheway: 00:00 Welcome to part two with Courtney Rich.

Courtney Rich: 00:03 Later in Luke 24 and verse 45 talks about then open he their understanding that they might understand the scriptures. That’s where he wants us to go. He talks about the scriptures as he’s on the road to Emmaus. As he’s talking about Moses here again, he is like that they may understand the scriptures. He’s reminding us if we have questions, if we have doubts, here’s where you need to go. It’s the scriptures and I will help enlighten your mind as you’re doing that. I just love that reminder too. And the pattern that he’s teaching us of how to learn, how to gain a witness of him, how to have our minds enlightened.

Hank Smith: 00:45 It seems like with both of these groups in Luke 24, these two and then the 12, he uses scriptures to bring them around. With the two on the road to Emmaus it says, let’s talk through it says he beginning at Moses. That’s a wave us back, right? let’s start with Genesis and how about we walk through all the scriptures and help you reevaluate your choices.

Courtney Rich: 01:08 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 01:08 Courtney, I love what President Freeman had you do with evidences. I remember a talk that Elder Holland gave, a classic talk because all of his talks seem to be classic. It was called Lord I Believe. But the point he made in the talk was you always start with what you know. Boy, that helped me tremendously as a bishop. When somebody would come in and I’m having this question, I’d be, I’m going to try to help you answer that. But first let’s talk about some things that you know, that list gets longer and longer to use a line from a hymn, it will surprise you what the Lord has done when you start talking about what you know. Thank you for showing me that in section 20. I’ve never seen that by these things we know. And here comes this boom, boom, boom, boom list. I think President Eyring had said at one point, that’s what a journal is.

  02:00 It’s not for your trips and your trophies, it’s document the hand of God in your life. And then you have this place you can go, like you did Courtney, here’s my book of evidences. And you go back there and say, oh yeah. But there’s one other thing I wanted to add because it’s Easter-ish, but it’s Book of Mormon. You know how these guys are like, hey wait, he did say that, didn’t he? You know this, Jesus comes back and he’s sitting with Nephi three in third Nephi and says, uh, did you write down that thing that Samuel the Lamanite said? And what was it? It was about the resurrection, right? It was very Easter. Do you remember that some of the saints that slept arose and appeared unto many? Do you remember how I told you to write that down? So I think that’s fascinating because it’s about this very topic. When we were back in John, they didn’t know the scripture that he would rise again. It’s like what? You didn’t know that?

Hank Smith: 02:56 Uh, and he has to just like Courtney said, remind us.

Courtney Rich: 03:00 Just remind us. How patient he is with us. I love how chapter 24, Luke 24 ends as their minds are open to the understanding. They’re in the scriptures. Christ reminds them preach repentance and a remission of sins. You’re my witnesses now. And he reminds them of that. Ye are witnesses of these things. Not that just happened right here, but this whole journey that we’ve been on together and he blesses them. And after he leaves, I love this example of discipleship and what it means. They were continually in the temple praising and blessing God. That’s what it means to be a witness moving on and sharing that and praising him. And they returned with great joy. So we end with that in 24. But then I think about chapter 20 over in John. This is one of my favorites. Because I think this also helped me have a better understanding of what it means to take upon his name, to witness of him, what it really means to be a disciple when we have that moment where we’re changed.

  04:08 We have these personal experiences with him. We are connected with him and we’re like, all right, what does that mean? Now what do I do? There’s something just so relatable about this to me. This is when Simon Peter, he is like, let’s go fishing. Christ had come to them. He’s gone again. I just imagine him being like, I don’t, maybe I don’t know what to do now. they go back to what they know and they’re back in the boat. They’re fishing and they’re not catching anything. And that sounds pretty familiar, doesn’t it? They see a man at the shore and they don’t know who it is. The man says, and this is Jesus, but says, cast your net to the other side. John says to Simon, it’s the Lord.

Hank Smith: 04:55 I think it’s him. Yeah.

Courtney Rich: 04:56 Yeah, I think it’s him, right? And Simon, you also just love that he jumps out into the water and again running, swimming as fast as he can to him. But it’s the part later. So this is in verses 15 through 17. Peter’s having the conversation with Christ. He is saying, lovest thou me more than these? And he saith unto him, yea Lord. Thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, feed my lambs. He saith to him again. The second time, Simon son of Jonas lovest thou me? And he saith unto him, yea Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He said unto him, feed my sheep. And then a third time they have this same interaction, that same thing. And Peter seems a little like sad because he said unto him the third time, lovest thou me. And he is like, Lord thou knowest all things.

  05:50 Thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, feed my sheep. And President Freeman was teaching this one time and I just loved how she was, You’re not a fisherman anymore. You are my disciple. Truly Simon, the other disciples, Mary, their mission had changed. Changed because years before that moment they decided to walk the covenant path. They decided to walk with Christ. And I’m sure they stumbled and they felt inadequate, but they kept walking. They chose to stay. They chose to follow Jesus Christ just like Mary did. Just like you and I can. The idea of, yeah, you are actually a changed person when these moments happen as you become a disciple of Christ. I’m a big sports fan and I played basketball growing up. And so when I started high school, we had just moved from Utah to California and I tried out for the basketball team.

  06:42 I had no friends and I just thought, okay, I’ll do this and that would be a great way to make friends and I love basketball and I made the team and kind of that worry about making friends went away. But as I was on that team, you have this sudden sense of belonging. You put on that jersey, mine was the Agora Chargers. There was a big lightning bolt, it was blue and yellow and I felt like I was a part of something bigger, something important, something I wanted to live up to. I wanted to represent in a really positive way. I think about my discipleship, my moment. Do we take on the name of Christ like we would a sports team? Do we identify with Christ like we would with groups we’re involved with, whether that’s friends or family or the athletics, celebrities, musicians?

  07:27 You think about all the influences we have in our lives. President Lund shared this quote in one of his conference talks just a couple years ago. He said, your discipleship isn’t just a slogan on a t-shirt, it has become a part of your life, purposefully lived for others. So you go home and you do that, be that. Carry the spiritual momentum into the rest of your life. Was talking about people’s experiences with FSY. Truly, I love that emphasis that discipleship isn’t merely that superficial expression or a fleeting trend, but it’s deeply ingrained in the way that we live. And it’s characterized by our purpose, how we serve others, what are we working towards? And when I look at Mary and the disciples in these events that we’ve been talking about today, I think we learn so much about what it means to become a disciple of Jesus Christ. What it means to have these personal experiences with him and how in those intimate moments in our lives it can lead to change within us. That’s actually so profound that we want to witness of him. We don’t have to just read like we talked about. He’s here in our stories right now.

Hank Smith: 08:37 It gives me a sense of you’re going to be okay. Yes, it’s painful right now and don’t forget you signed up for this. Losses will be made up to you. I know you’re hurting once you see what I see, you’ll know why.

John Bytheway: 08:55 More than anything else. The resurrection is that message. He’s a deliverer, he’s a redeemer, he’s a restorer. And everything is going to be made right including death. Thanks for that Hank.

Hank Smith: 09:10 Courtney. I like that you pointed out in this story that listen, you don’t have an experience with the resurrected Lord and then just be like, well I’m going to go back to what I was doing before. No, everything is different now. You don’t get to go backwards. I use that story with those in my class who return from a mission. You don’t just go back to fishing. Everything has changed. This isn’t the end. This is the beginning.

Courtney Rich: 09:36 Yeah. Makes me circle back to Mary when she’s in the tomb. She’s there, she’s waiting, she’s staying, she’s seeking after Christ. She’s still like, no, I’m still a part of this. You’re still a part of me. I don’t know what’s next, but I’m here ready to wait and see what’s next. That’s what I am looking for and reminds us to turn our eyes, our hearts, our lives over to him. As I looked at these stories and these verses, I just all of a sudden saw my life for me, becoming a witness of him and having a witness that he lives today and my story, it all started because I needed that personal relationship with him. I needed that personal experience and I was desperate to find it. And as I did, as I dove into his life and trying to better understand him, I was able to better see his love for me and understand how much he can strengthen and heal me.

  10:45 President Nelson testified, I love this quote too. The more you learn about the Savior, the easier it is to trust in his mercy, his infinite love and his strengthening, healing and redeeming power. I just also testify that that is so true. I saw that change in my life. The more that I learned about him, really understood him and saw him and his stories and his teachings, that trust has become easier. I’m still learning that trust. I’m still learning how to turn things over to him. But what a difference it has made in my life. It’s profound. It really is. The way that he can change your spirit, your outlook, your understanding, and maybe not take all the burdens away but help lighten the load because he’s carrying it with us side by side.

Hank Smith: 11:34 And that’s the message of Easter. There’s a confidence that comes that really, I don’t know if you can get in any other way, I’m not talking to live with confidence in yourself, but a piece that comes, Elder Scott said that the difficulties of life are set against a background of a very beautiful thing. The trials are the clouds, but the Lord is the sky. He’s there.

John Bytheway: 12:07 Paul talks about being settled and grounded and I just, those are good words for this understanding of the Savior’s presence. There was a classic seminary video. Do you remember the young lady comes in and just doesn’t feel worthy and the bishop does the coolest thing. He says, look outside, what do you see? And she says, I see a tree and some cars. And he says, I look out, I see the same thing. And the bishop says, I want you to look at this picture on the wall of the Savior and don’t take your eyes off of it until we both see the same thing. You remember this video Hank, and he says, you see someone who’s so good, he wouldn’t want you as one of his children. And she kind of nods her head and he says, well, let me tell you the Savior that I know. And he says, I see someone who is so good that he would love to have you as one of his daughters. What you just said, Courtney, the more we read about him as President Nelson said, the more hope we have. We start to discover what he’s really like and how merciful and forgiving and welcoming he really is. If you’re feeling like you’re not good enough, you need to read more about him and read more about what he’s really like. You’ll start to see what this girl saw in the Bishop’s office.

Hank Smith: 13:30 Courtney, so far you’ve shown us how to navigate extreme difficulty and we know we have listeners who are saying, this is me. Whether it be mental health problems, death of loved ones, unmet hopes and dreams. And John speak to this as well. How do you see all that helping me? Who’s out there listening, going, what do I do now? I want that. I want what you have. I want the confidence, I want the peace.

Courtney Rich: 14:06 Something that I didn’t realize I wasn’t doing. I mean I was, I was kind of doing the checklist of things growing up. The things that I thought you needed to do, keep the commandments and check this off the list, check this off the list. What I failed at for so long was creating the personal part of that relationship and understanding the why of that relationship beyond the checklist or the commandments or the things that I was being taught that I thought I was just supposed to do to do. You know, it’s why I love the For the Strength of Youth guide now. The way that it really talks about the why behind all the things that we are taught, helping our youth to really have an understanding and a connection to the Savior because that gives all of this purpose, even if it is the checklist items.

  15:01 I think the difference maker was one, there was such a desperation I felt to know my Savior and feel like I was kind of at the last leg of the race and I didn’t know what else. And here he was giving me an invitation to get to know him and I took it. Really spending that time focusing on him and learning of him and his life and his character rounded out to where I had this greater understanding that he knew who I was and that he loves me because it was that time I took to get to know him. And I understood that greater love that he had for me and I could hear his voice.

Hank Smith: 15:42 It sounds backwards to say that your experience there Courtney was a blessing, but it can be a blessing for the Lord to put us in situations where we only have one choice. It’s him. Where, I’ve tried everything else. This is my last hope. And then like you said, it’s desperation. Lord save me.

Courtney Rich: 16:09 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 16:09 As Peter would say.

Courtney Rich: 16:11 President Nelson gave a talk called drawing on the power of Jesus Christ in our lives. This was back in 2017 and he was sharing the story of the woman with the issue of blood suffering for 12 years. And then when she’s near Christ, she has such great faith in the Savior. She’s like, if I touch his clothes, I’ll be made whole. He says, this faithful focused woman needed to stretch as far as she could to access his power. Her physical stretching was symbolic of her spiritual stretching. Many of us have cried out from the depths of our heart a variation of this woman’s words. If I could spiritually stretch enough to draw the Savior’s power into my life, I would know how to handle my heart wrenching situation. I would know what to do and I would have the power to do it. Now this next part, the best part, when you reach up for the Lord’s power in your life with the same intensity that a drowning person has when grasping and gasping for air, power from Jesus Christ will be yours.

  17:09 When the Savior knows you truly want to reach up to him. When he can feel that the greatest desire of your heart is to draw his power into your life, you’ll be led by the Holy Ghost to know exactly what you should do. I thought it was so interesting that President Nelson pointed out when the Savior knows you truly want to reach up to him when the Savior knows because he knows our intentions. He knows we are sitting in our hard right now. He knows how hard we’re working and what we’ve been trying to do to overcome these obstacles. He has not left that. But he can also feel it. He is prepared and he knows the moment where you are grasping and gasping for air and he will come in even if it’s at that very last moment like it has been for me.

John Bytheway: 17:59 The verse that came to mind was that we just covered a few weeks ago, section 19 verse 23, learn of me, listen to my words, walk in the meekness of my spirit, and there’s the focus part and you will have peace. When you see a scripture that tells you where to find something, then by implication it also tells you where you won’t find it right? You’ll find peace in me. In other words, you won’t find it in social media, you won’t find it in popularity, you won’t find it in fame, you won’t find it in wealth, you will find it in me.

Hank Smith: 18:34 I was thinking about how we’ve watched Joseph Smith and the Saints learn line upon line this year. Joseph Smith and Emma Smith are not strangers to heartache. Joseph Smith, the loss of his older brother, Alvin stays with him through his entire life and then they lose child after child, infant after infant, both in miscarriages and then children dying so young. And yet he doesn’t know everything. He doesn’t know what’s going to happen to Alvin. He sees him in the Celestial kingdom. How is that possible?

John Bytheway: 19:14 I marveled, he says. He’d never received the gospel.

Hank Smith: 19:18 So part of maybe dealing with the heartbreak is allowing the Lord to teach you a piece at a time and being patient with that process that you’re not going to get it all. But you’re going to be given a little. Line upon line, precept on precept, here a little there a little. But it does come as Courtney’s taught us today. Courtney, I would like to revisit a couple of things you’ve said before we let you go. We can’t let you off this easy.

John Bytheway: 19:49 Without some cake.

Hank Smith: 19:51 Yeah.

Courtney Rich: 19:51 You know, if we had actually all been together, I would’ve brought cake. Just by the way, for future reference that thought, if you ever have a repeat guest.

Hank Smith: 19:59 Don’t tell me that. Don’t tell me that.

John Bytheway: 20:02 We’ll take a cake check they call it, right? Yeah.

Courtney Rich: 20:04 There we go. Yeah.

Hank Smith: 20:05 Okay. Courtney, a couple of these things you’ve already hit, but I would be interested in them and that is some of our listeners, I’m sure many of them struggle with faith. I want to believe, I want to know, I want to be able to say what I hear other people saying. You said this early on when you were struggling, I wanted to feel what they felt and be able to say the things that they say. How do you know those answers when they come? You talked about being in the back of that conference and knowing that answer when it came. How do I recognize that that’s real. That’s from him.

Courtney Rich: 20:48 That is tricky. Discernment, discerning. Are these just my thoughts? Are these the whisperings of the Spirit? I’ll say that moment at that conference was so unique and different for me that I just was so sure of it. There was not even a doubt in my mind. It was the voice of the Lord. It was so powerful and so distinct and so different from anything else. And then from that time on, you know I’m about 42, so the last six years I’ve really tried to be intentional about listening for his voice. And there have been these moments in my life where I’m like, was that the whisperings? Was that the promptings? I had a funny experience a couple years ago. It was like I just kept getting this feeling that I needed to be attending the temple more often. And I’m just like, I thought in my head oh I can do that later.

  21:42 I’ll get to that. And it just kept coming back to me like get to the temple. Get to the temple. And again, I just kept putting it off and putting it off and I’m five minutes away from a temple, which is ridiculous of me to do. And then one Sunday afternoon my mom calls me and she says, Hey, been thinking about you today. And as I was in the stake conference and sitting there, I had this thought for you, this impression and I just can’t shake it. And she’s like, I just had this impression that I needed to tell you to go to the temple every week for the next four weeks. I responded with a laugh. I don’t, I’m sure she was like, why is she laughing? But in my head I’m thinking, of course here I am not listening to the whisperings of the Spirit, not recognizing that that is the Lord telling me to go to the temple. And what does he do? He goes to my mom.

Hank Smith: 22:33 Goes to your mom.

Courtney Rich: 22:33 Because he is like, I know she’ll listen to her mom, if I tell her mom and her mom tells her, she’ll go. And I’ve had a couple moments like that where I’ve realized I can’t risk not listening. So even if this good thought to go to the temple is just my thought, well I’m going to go do it. Even if this thought to text this person I don’t know very well from my ward is just my thought, I’m still going to do it and act as if it’s a whispering from the Spirit because I can’t risk not listening. Because what I want is to be able to hear. I want that veil to be thinner. I want to be able to hear him in the small moments as I do the big moments. And it’s something I’ve talked to my kids a lot about as they are discovering and developing their own testimonies and they are in things and have passions for golf and for dance and there’s days that things don’t work out and they say to me, but I’m praying but I fasted for this and it didn’t work out.

  23:34 Is he even there? Does he even want to help me? We’ve had these discussions of, well yes, but also let’s look at all the other small pieces to this. You’re looking at this one moment, maybe this big picture that you want to happen. But I’m trying to help them start to see where he is in the little things. At least this is what’s helped for me. If I can recognize more the Spirit and the little parts and have the evidences of where he was in my day-to-day, the little mini miracles, the more I’ve been able or the better I’ve been able to hear him on some of these bigger things. As I talked about in today’s podcast, I was just with Avery at a dance competition and she was very nervous and anxious about doing a solo. And she’s done it before, but she had kind of a mishap the last time she did it.

  24:24 She was so anxious and we had said prayers and we were walking down the hall and somebody stopped me, recognized me and and we started talking and the lady next to her grabbed her daughter and said, she needs a hug pointing to Avery. This girl gave Avery a hug and they just were like, it’s going to be okay. You are going to do great today. They didn’t know what she was about to do or what was about to happen. They knew she was dancing. We walked away from that and Avery tugged on me and stopped me in the hall and goes, mom, do you know what that was? And I said, oh that was so nice. She’s like, mom, that was a miracle. That was the Lord. That was his hand telling her to give me a hug. So as we start to connect the dots on those little things, I think they help build up to those bigger moments and we’re more aware of them and we recognize them as the Spirit and the Lord.

Hank Smith: 25:18 As we track them like you talked about with your journal. I think we tell the Lord I want more of these. I will take them seriously. I will hold them sacred. I will write them down. John, what do you think?

John Bytheway: 25:31 My first thought when you asked the question was go to Alma 32 and 33 where Alma uses this phrase, Even if you can no more than desire to believe and maybe that’s where you are. Heavenly father, I want to believe this. But even if you can no more than desire to believe, I love the phrase Alma uses: give place. What’s it called Hank? A willful suspension of disbelief. Give place that the word which is Christ can be planted in your heart and watch what happens. I think they use a plant on purpose because you can’t rush it. You can’t rush a seed. It’s the tree of life it tells us later on. And I think you can’t rush that either. You plant an apple tree, you don’t eat an apple for years.

Hank Smith: 26:18 Yeah, it’s going to be a while.

John Bytheway: 26:20 It’s an exercise in patience and diligence. It’s not just plant it but then it’s nurturing and patience and diligence. I just say to my kids, then tell the Lord that, tell him I want to believe this. Help my unbelief. Help me keep going. And he’s a good tutor. He knows when to give you what. So there’s a trust element in there too.

Courtney Rich: 26:42 Yeah. Yeah.

  26:43 And that willingness, you know, I think about that. It’s in my patriarchal blessing a couple times. The willingness. And I think he knows that. He knows the intentions of our heart. If we’ve got that willingness, like you said, that desire to try, to experiment, test out some of the things that are mentioned here in the scriptures and in these lessons, test them out, have that willingness and see what can happen as you plant the seed. I just believe he knows our intentions. So when they’re pure and they’re right and they’re focused on him, good things are going to happen when we’re trying. Grab a journal, I brought mine, but that’s my book of evidences. It’s just a little thing and I’m filling it up and it’s changed my life the last couple years as I’ve gone back to it over and over again. And maybe for a while, the only evidence or the only truth you know is I know my Savior lives. Maybe that’s the only thing. You just keep going back to it. That’s okay. That’s great. Start with one thing that you know, it doesn’t have to be a whole list, don’t overwhelm ourselves. But that foundation can be built on one truth and maybe you don’t even know that one truth yet. So let’s pray. Discover what that one truth may be in your life about the Savior that you can start to build that foundation upon and it’s going to grow. That’s a promise he makes throughout the scriptures.

Hank Smith: 28:01 I can combine these two things together. My wife and my daughter Madelynn and I were at the temple last week when we came out of there and got in the car, we were all kind of three going. Did that really just happen? Did we really just see the hand of God in a way that was unmistakable? The first thing I did was I have a note on my phone that’s my book of evidences. And I went there and added to my experiences, these undeniable blessings that are personalized, the tender mercies of the Lord having lost both of my parents and my older brother. I find that if I want to be close to them, I don’t go to the cemetery, I go to the temple.

John Bytheway: 28:48 Exactly Hank.

Hank Smith: 28:50 The cemetery, I go there to pay my respects. But honestly I think my dad would say, what are you doing? Why are you here? Go to the temple. That’s where we’re going to connect.

John Bytheway: 29:03 I had that happen to me. I went to Wasatch Lawn where my dad was buried and I had that impression, thanks for coming but you want to feel close, go to the temple. And that’s where we connect earth with heaven and where families are connected. And I it was kind of one of those of course, yeah. Sorry dad.

Hank Smith: 29:24 Right. Sorry about that. I’ll uh,

John Bytheway: 29:26 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 29:27 If anyone out there says, oh I really feel peace at the cemetery, I don’t think that’s what, we’re definitely not saying that. For me personally, when I get myself into the temple, I think this is what I’m looking for. And even then, Courtney, it comes a piece at a time. I’m like, give me the whole thing. Overwhelm me with the angels.

Courtney Rich: 29:46 The parting of the clouds.

Hank Smith: 29:49 Right?

Courtney Rich: 29:49 And I think that’s what I thought it was for a long time and I think what I’ve been tutored on and learning last six, seven years, even throughout the 20 that I felt like I was alone was, it is little by little and it’s meant to be little by little because that’s how we learn. That’s how we really soak it all in. If we were to have everything all at once, I’m not sure it would be as as meaningful or as impactful. It becomes information overload. I think it’s these little things that become so meaningful and as you get further along your path and you look back at what has happened and how the Lord has made your path that maybe it was winding and weaving and all these different ways, but you look back and you see the picture that he’s painted and it all makes sense.

  30:38 Like you said, I wouldn’t take back 20 years of feeling alone and forgotten because the nearly 20 years of that led me to a moment that I will never forget that I am not alone and that my Savior sees me and is with me. And because of all that time and leading up to that moment, I am changed. And I wouldn’t ever change that. And looking back, I can see how he’s like, hang on just a little bit longer. I’m going to get you to this point where you’re making cakes. I’m going to get you to Utah where you start to share it. I’m going to get you to this point where you can be involved in this conference and you’re going to learn, just hang on a little bit longer because it’s all going to make sense. It’s all going to work out. And it does. And sometimes it’s a lot longer than we want it to be. A lot longer. Darn it. But it is.

John Bytheway: 31:41 The fourth watch.

Courtney Rich: 31:42 Yeah. But it’s going to work out. And he promises that. And he is a god who does not break promises.

Hank Smith: 31:51 Our friend Michael McLean wrote, hold on, the light will come.

John Bytheway: 31:56 Hold on, the light will come. Speaking of baking, when I was in seventh grade and we’re signing up for our eighth grade classes and my friends were like, let’s take a cooking class. And I thought they were joking and they were going to trick me into taking this class while they all took PE, but they said, let’s take this cooking class. And I said, why? And they said, you get to eat. And I was like, oh duh. we made brownies like every day. They were sometimes more like burnt offerings but it was also had a really good girl to boy ratio. There was one table of boys, us, and about six tables of girls. So it was an awesome class. But I didn’t know that halfway through the school year, we would switch to sewing.

  32:44 So we were doing needle point and I saved this Hank, I have to find it, but it was on a piece of burlap and I sewed a lion’s head with a mane. But I learned something about the needle point that if you look at the backside, you can’t tell what in the world that’s going to be. Because the threads are crisscrossing everywhere and there’s knots and stuff like that. And I gave it to my mom, you know, in eighth grade. She’s like, oh that looks so nice. In the garage years later I came across this poem, Elder Maxwell quoted it in a general conference talk. Just that idea came alive to me of the backside of my needle point. So it’s not original to Elder Maxwell, but you can find the reference. This is the poem, I memorized it. My life is but a weaving between my God and me. I do not choose the colors. He worketh steadily. Oft times he weaveth sorrow and I in foolish pride forget he sees the upper and I the underside. Not till the loom is silent and the shuttles cease to fly, will God unroll the canvas and explain the reasons why. The dark threads are as needful in the skillful weaver’s hands as the threads of gold and silver in the pattern he has planned. A great poem.

Courtney Rich: 34:11 Love that.

John Bytheway: 34:12 We’re seeing the underside going what are you doing to me in my life? Or why this thread? Why here, why now? And someday we’ll turn it over and we’ll see the reasons why.

Hank Smith: 34:26 Courtney, we had joked about something while we were, we had a bit of a break here and I actually want to talk about it because I just thought it was so simple, yet so profound. Occasionally Courtney will get emails from people who tell her that they didn’t like her recipe or that something happened in the recipe and they’re going to correct it. People do that to us too, John. Like they,

John Bytheway: 34:51 Oh, hardly ever.

Hank Smith: 34:53 Occasionally people don’t like the show and they let us know very directly. Courtney said there sometimes are people who will tell her that they changed the recipe and it just didn’t work.

Courtney Rich: 35:07 And they’re surprised.

John Bytheway: 35:07 Imagine that.

Courtney Rich: 35:08 What?

Hank Smith: 35:10 Yeah. And they want to know what happened.

Courtney Rich: 35:12 I know. I’m trying to troubleshoot. I mean, I will say my Instagram community is the best of the best because they’re the most supportive, kind, awesome group of people that choose to join me and I’m so grateful for. The blog is interesting because that’s where the recipes are. You’ll get comments and reviews. And so I do just kind of giggle sometimes before trying to reply as nicely as I can. When I see the comment of, okay, I tried this recipe, it came out horrible. I changed this to this, I changed this to this. And they’re listing all the changes that they made. And I think to myself, well that’s not the recipe I wrote. So I don’t know what you just baked.

Hank Smith: 35:54 I don’t

Courtney Rich: 35:55 But it wasn’t what the recipe I gave you. And my hope is I’m not perfect. My recipes aren’t always perfect. But the hope is that if you follow it the way it’s written, it will work out for you. Thinking about the analogy of the scriptures and the gospel and you know how easy sometimes we do. I mean it’s, we are just, the natural man sometimes gets in us and we’re like, well I’m just going to tweak this a little bit and then tweak this a little bit and this. And all of a sudden things really aren’t working out the way that they’ve been promised to us or shown to us. And we’re thinking why? Well, we didn’t follow the recipe the right way and how lucky we are to have, I’m putting my hands to my scriptures, a living prophet and scriptures that are written for our day to give us the perfect recipe to get the outcome that we desire. And it’s not one that we’re going to outcome that we’re going to have tomorrow or in 30 minutes like a cake would bake. But what is promised that that will be our outcome, that eternal life, celestial glory returning to our heavenly father, being with our Savior, being with our loved ones that we have lost on this side of the veil. That is the promise. That’s the ultimate goal. We’ll get there. Got to follow that recipe.

Hank Smith: 37:08 I laughed about it because I thought that is me where I say, Lord, this looks nothing like you said it would. Okay. Did you do what I asked you to do? Sort of, yeah. I tweaked a couple of things. He’s got to be just like you Courtney, going, well I don’t know what you made, but that is not, that’s not what I had designed. Right. Instead of telling the Lord his recipe is wrong, why don’t we change the way we approach the cooking? John, what do you have there? Do you have any thoughts there?

John Bytheway: 37:41 And I don’t want us to think everything is such an easy formula. I mean, Hank, you know, my struggles finding someone that would accept my marriage proposal, some mission companions got home and were married in six months and some weren’t. Some things didn’t work out. But that’s the whole point of this lesson. You keep our eyes on Christ and there’s an outcome that is so good. Although it’s fun to go Hank, isn’t it, to a youth fireside. And ask the adults in the room, raise your hand if your life turned out exactly the way you thought and nobody raises their hands. And the youth look around and they’re kind of shocked.

Hank Smith: 38:25 Yeah. Wait, what? Yeah, I think the Lord would say to me, okay, now are you going to the temple regularly? Well, yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean I drive by it on my way to work and my way back and I feel like that’s pretty close. I just can picture Courtney closing her eyes going, okay, let me help you. Please don’t switch out those things. I love the analogy. So, thanks for humoring us there, Courtney. And Courtney, thank you for being here.

Courtney Rich: 38:55 Oh my pleasure. Thank you for having me. What a privilege it was to be able to really spend the last couple few months thinking about the resurrection and what that means to me. What it means for each of us. And being able to spend time in the stories of Mary and the disciples, putting myself where they were and seeing myself as them, and really making this a very personal, intimate study of Holy weekend of Easter.

Hank Smith: 39:26 I’m grateful for the time you took to prepare. I know that our listeners are as well. I think there’s many people out there going, she spoke to me. That lesson was for me. John, this is a great job.

John Bytheway: 39:42 Yeah, it is. I’m thinking about the first scripture that Courtney read that was after the Kirtland Temple dedication when Jesus appeared. I was a little kid when we used to watch the 10 Commandments every Easter. That movie used to come on. We didn’t have videotapes back then or on demand, but luckily it came on every Easter. I used to wonder why until I learned that Passover, Easter, you know, these things are connected. I always remembered when Moses was talking to God in the burning bush, he said, they’re going to ask me what your name is. And he said, I am. And I thought, as a kid, that doesn’t sound like a name but what a cool idea I am. When we see his appearance in the Kirtland Temple, it’s like the Savior bearing testimony of himself. I love that. The verse, Courtney, that you started with from section 110 of the Doctrine and Covenants, when Jesus appeared it’s like he’s bearing testimony of himself. I’m always fascinated with things the Lord repeats. He repeats I am, four times in this verse. Just love it’s not, I was, not I used to be, not way back in the past you can think about me. No, I am the first and the last. I am He who liveth, I am He who was slain. I am your advocate with the Father. Wow. That’s the message of Easter. Not he was, but he is. He liveth right now. Thanks for beginning with that verse.

Courtney Rich: 41:23 With that the I am drives home that point of these blessings are ours. They’re available to us now. I love that He follows that up with, lift up your heads and rejoice. Let your hearts of your brethren rejoice. And the hearts of all my people, rejoice, talk about repeating things. Rejoice. This is such a happy thing. I know that we just read about the sadness that Mary felt and the disciples and that disappointment and not knowing, but this is the most joyful thing because of the promises and what this means for each of us now in our lives. Being able to have this gift of repentance, being able to join him again someday. Having a Lord who is so patient with us, that it will remind us over and over again and is always there for us as we turn back to him and the promise of I will appear unto my servants and I will speak unto them like I am here. Talking about that, hearing him and knowing his voice. He’s going to help us understand how he speaks to each one of us as we are diligent and willing and have the desire to listen and turn our hearts to him. That whole section right there, four through eight is really so, so beautiful. I love the repetition as well.

Hank Smith: 42:43 Yeah, that’s great John. And great additions there Courtney. Listening to you teach Courtney keeps bringing to mind, the writer of Hebrews called the Savior the high priest of good things to come. And that seems to be a lot of your message. Good things are coming. Hold on, stay there. We want to thank our friend Courtney Rich one more time. Go to Instagram cake by Courtney. We want to thank Courtney for being with us today. It has been a treat.

John Bytheway: 43:16 I see what you did there. That’s good.

Courtney Rich: 43:18 I like it. I like it.

Hank Smith: 43:20 Happy Easter to all of you. Come on to YouTube or come over to follow him.co. Send us a message or leave a comment on YouTube and tell Courtney where you’re listening from. It’s really fun to share that with our guests. And finally, we want to thank our executive producer Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors David and Verla Sorensen, and every episode, especially this Easter season, we remember our founder. We know he’s still helping us. Steve Sorensen. We hope you’ll join us next week. We’re jumping right back into the Doctrine & Covenants on followHIM. Thank you for joining us on today’s episode. Do you or someone you know speak Spanish, Portuguese, or French? You can now watch and listen to our podcast in those languages. Links are in the description below. Today’s show notes and transcripts are on our website. Follow him.co. That’s follow him.co. Of course, none of this could happen without our production team. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilson, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Amelia Kabwika, and Annabelle Sorensen.