Intro: 00:03 Welcome to Part II of this week’s podcast.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 00:08 These Official Declarations are powerful. The fact that they were made part of scripture and inserted in the canon just shows, it really confirms and validates the revelatory nature of these revelations. You know, I was talking to my brother, who’s a member of a Stake Presidency in the Chesterfield, Virginia Stake, Jamil Corbitt, and he was saying that he loves to respond to questions about the gospel with the Articles of Faith. And it’s such a natural response, oh, it even starts with, “We believe.” So these are powerful tools and guides for us to not only live our lives as the Savior would have us do, but to be able to share as Peter said, “To have a reason for the hope that is in us.”

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 01:07 In law school we studied a case called Reynolds vs United States, and it was about polygamy and related to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the practice of plural marriage. And it’s a religious liberty case. One of the, sort of the first, the seminal case on religious liberty of the Supreme Court. And of course, just 11 years later, the Lord makes this revelation known to the prophet Wilford Woodruff, the fourth president of the Church at the time, fourth president of the Church. And here it is, and we get to read it. “It was moved by President Lorenzo Snow, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances. We consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto, which has been read in our hearing and which is dated September 24, 1890. And that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding,” closed quote. And the vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

John Bytheway: 02:35 Well, and like we said, this is number 9. Do you believe that? Yeah.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 02:41 Yeah, and the same with the Official Declaration 2. I joined the Church two years after this, but I have kind of a personal story about this. Actually, a couple of them. I was 15-years-old, I was finishing my sophomore year. It was getting toward the summer and I had this spiritual experience in the form of a dream that remains one of my most spiritual experiences ever in my life. And I got up the next morning, it was a Sunday, put on a nice shirt and some slacks and I felt so summoned by the Lord that I walked to the nearest church, which turned out to be a Catholic church. I think it was Our Lady of the Sacrament, just at 56th and Chester Avenue in West Philadelphia and I lived at 57th and Greenway, just a couple blocks away, and walked to that and worshiped.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 03:46 Went to church as a 17- as a 15-, rather, year old kid feeling like God was calling me. Everyone else was home in bed. It turned out that that was the year and the summer of this revelation. I didn’t know at the time, I didn’t even know what a Latter-day Saint was at the time, but isn’t that interesting that 2,500 miles away, prophets and apostles were receiving this revelation and somehow the Lord was preparing people elsewhere, not just here in the US, but around the world.

John Bytheway: 04:26 Brother Corbitt, do you know that the night Joseph Smith got the plates, Brigham Young had a vision. He had no idea who Joseph Smith was, he’d never heard of anything like that, but he and Heber C. Kimball both, on September 21, right, John? September 21, 1827 went outside and they both saw visions of angels. So this is the Lord’s pattern.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 04:51 He prepares His people. I was asked to write an essay of just, as kind of a sidebar essay, to the main essay on the priesthood, Race and the Priesthood. So, I wrote a personal essay. The Church leaders wanted me to put my voice in it. And while I’m writing this essay in June of 2012, I am, my wife and I and our daughter, the only remaining child in the home, were out in Boise, picking up our son, Marcus, from his mission. And so they had gone out, we had gotten Marcus, I was going to release him that afternoon, but they went out to do some shopping and I was alone at the hotel, when suddenly my phone rings and I’m working on this essay at the time. My phone rings and it’s the only time I’d ever been called by an apostle or prophet.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 05:56 Hello. Brother Corbitt. Yes, this is Ahmad Corbitt. Elder Perry. And I said, oh, I was flustered, I said, “Elder L. Tom Perry?”  And no, the other Elder Perry, but he just ignored that. He was so gracious. He said, “Yeah, that’s right. I’m coming out to New York.” And at that time I was directing the New York Office, Public International Affairs. Said, “I’m coming out to New York,” and he was the Chairman of the Public Affairs Committee. “And I’d like to get a report and kind of see what’s going on, et cetera.” And I said, “Happy to,” and we talked about it. And I said, “By the way Elder Perry, I happen to be, I’m going to release my son here in a few minutes when he returns. I’m here in Boise on vacation.” I was the Stake President at the time, and he gave me some counsel to give him which, and I told him I would, and that I’d give it to every missionary that I’d release after that. And so I’ve given it dozens of times. I said, but then it occurred to me, it occurred to me, John and Hank, that Elder Perry participated in the revelation. And I thought, oh my. Right. So I said, “Elder Perry, you may not know this, you’d have no reason to know this, but I was asked to write an essay on race in the priesthood. And it just occurred to me that you participated in the revelation.”

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 07:26 He then proceeds to tell me his experience, which according to his son, Lee Perry, is nowhere else written. And so I incorporate it with Elder Perry’s permission. I first of all wrote it in my journal and then incorporated a piece of my journal, a portion of my journal into the essay. So it’s Part Four of that four-part essay. Brethren, I don’t know how the priesthood restriction began. I don’t know that. I don’t have the answer for that, but I know how it ended. The Lord spoke to those. I bear witness in the name of the Lord that Jesus Christ revealed himself to those, his will to those apostles and prophets. In fact, Elder Perry said, and I put this in the essay. “We were not alone.” And the Holy Ghost bore witness to me, head to toe, that this was an apostle and that he and others received a revelation. This revelation that we call Official Declaration 2.

John Bytheway: 08:47 The Lord wanted to help you with your essay, it sounds like.

John Bytheway: 08:50 It was like, “Hey, you want a firsthand account here? Why don’t I, why don’t I help you? I’ll have him call you right now.”

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 08:57 It was amazing. Just amazing. That said, I …

 

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 09:03 … just amazing. That said, I believe The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and this is going to sound like a bold statement and it is bold. I believe that our Church is the best positioned. And with all due respect to other religions and organizations throughout the world, and you know that we respect them deeply, but our Church is the most empowered and best positioned to bring to pass racial unity and harmony throughout the family of God, among all the international organizations in the world. And for many reasons, we just talked about apostles and prophets. They are the chief gatherers. Again, back to Article of Faith 10, “We believe in the literal gathering of Israel.” They’re the chief gatherers. Therefore, they are the chief unifiers. They have the power and the keys to unify all of God’s children throughout the world of whatever background who are willing to become the one in Christ.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 10:24 Secondly, back to Article of Faith 10, the Church is destined to gather Israel. President Nelson, as you know, said that’s the most important thing taking place on earth today. It has to happen, be in preparation for the Second Coming of the Savior. And our Church is authorized, empowered, and positioned to affect that gathering, to bring it to pass. And that gathering will be from all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. And I’m sure you, brother, are familiar with this scripture in Section 45 where the Lord says, “And it shall come to pass, that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy.”

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 11:15 Imagine the family of God from all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people looking like the whole spectrum of races and ethnicities and so on. And he will gather all of the willing into one in Christ into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So we have a wonderful destiny and all of the members of the Church are invited to help prepare an environment for everyone to come into the Church and feel like they belong and feel loved.

John Bytheway: 11:54 Brother Corbitt, we have a lot of seminary teachers and institute teachers and Sunday school teachers who listen to the podcast. How would you help them explain Official Declaration to its history? How would you help them explain that to their young students? I know you spoke to the seminary and institute teachers in Salt Lake Valley once about this. So I’d love to see if we can glean a little bit of that for those who weren’t there.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 12:24 And they were a great group, a great group of consecrated souls. And I would say essentially what I would keep it simple and I don’t know why the priesthood restriction began or how it began. I don’t know to whom to attribute it. I would say that I think we get in trouble theorizing and speculating. And a lot of that’s been done in the Church. And in President Oak’s words, “Some people have been spectacularly wrong with some of those speculations,” and trying to give reasons. So I would say, let’s not get ahead of when… The Lord can reveal why that happened or how it happened if He wanted to. And when He wants to.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 13:20 I would say young brothers and sisters, we don’t know when that happened or why it happened. But if we together look forward with one eye having one faith and one baptism, having our hearts knit together in unity and love one toward another, we will, as the Book of Mormon teaches, we can create a culture of total unity and inclusivity in the Lord’s Church in preparation for the Second Coming.

John Bytheway: 13:56 Look forward.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 13:57 Look forward, look forward with an eye of faith and see it. It’s prophesied. And it’s promised, so it’s a promise of the Lord. He does not lie. Therefore, it’s a future reality that we can look forward to and see, and then do the things that lead to that kind of outcome. It doesn’t get to that outcome to criticize each other, to judge each other, to look in the past and say you were this, or you were that, or whatever, that’s not the way to do it.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 14:28 I would warn our students to be careful of a lot of online stuff, which can be very strident and bitter and purport to be sort of carrying the banner of unity and racial harmony, but kind of go about it in the world’s way, rather than in the Savior’s way. I would also say to the students that unity among God’s children. Look, think of 4 Nephi, think of Moses 7, and the City of Enoch and so on. That’s God’s work. And the Lord said in Section 12 to Joseph Knight, Sr, “Now, as you have asked, behold, I say, until you keep my commandments and seek to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion.” What is Zion? The pure in heart. It’s where they lived together, dwelt together in righteousness of one heart, one mind, there was no poor among them.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 15:31 And so, seek to bring forth and establish that cause. “Behold, I speak unto you and also to all those who have desires to bring forth and establish this work.” And here’s the key. “And no one can assist in this work, except he shall be humble.” Or she, “humble and full of love, having faith, hope, and charity, being temperate or moderate, not extreme or strident in all things whatsoever shall be entrusted to his or her care.”

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 16:06 And so, we can bring about unity in the Church and we can help the Lord create the miracle of Zion, this utopia of Zion, where there are no ites among us. Where we’re all one in Christ, and surely there could not be happier people among all the people created by the hand of God. We can do that if we do it in the Lord’s way. It must be the Lord’s way. The world’s way won’t work. I feel like I’m talking too much, but President Oak said, “Only the gospel of Jesus Christ can unite people of different races in unity.” And President Nelson said in April that, “The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is exactly what this weary contentious world needs.”

John Bytheway: 17:04 Brother Corbitt, my friend, Steve Rose told me to ask you about what the Book of Mormon teaches about using race to start conflict.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 17:14 The head note to Official Declaration 2 actually refers to the Book of Mormon. It says, “The Book of Mormon teaches that all are alike unto God, including black and white, bond and free, male and female.” It’s the popular scripture from 2 Nephi 26, verse 33. The Book of Mormon is another… And I mentioned two reasons the Church is uniquely positioned to bring to pass unity and harmony among God’s children of all backgrounds. The Book of Mormon is a third. It’s a key reason. First of all, President Nelson says that the gathering of Israel would not occur without the Book of Mormon. It’s the only book scripture where God explicitly tells-

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 18:03 -a book of scripture where God explicitly tells people of one color and culture to reach across color barriers to another people with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Interestingly, in the Book of Mormon, the righteous, those who are converted to the gospel, always referred to the other as our brethren.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 18:26 So the sons of Mosiah when they were going to go and preach to the Lamanites, the Lord himself said, “Go unto thy brethren.” So the Lord validated the practice. And then Samuel the Lamanite when he is sent to wicked Nephites to call them to repentance and heal them in 13, 14, 15, 16, he refers to them as his brethren.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 18:51 So a telltale sign of a truly converted person who really is seeking the mind of Christ is that they will see people of different backgrounds, different appearances as their brothers and sisters, and they will refer to them as such.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 19:08 Another thing about the Book of Mormon is that it… and I understand there are theories and some speculation about whether change in skin color, skin of blackness that it’s referred to in the Book of Mormon is metaphorical or literal.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 19:26 Here’s what I would say and have said to my children. That skin of blackness phenomenon happened within a family. It happened in the family of Lehi and Sariah and Ishmael, it happened among them. That blackness has no reference or connection whatsoever to black people today.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 19:51 And so it’s a family matter, it’s not a racial matter. It’s a family matter. It’s a family issue within that ancient Hebrew family. And the Lord did it I think for a larger loving purpose.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 20:06 The Book of Mormon helps us see that the point I just made is that those who follow Christ love all people. It’s sort of a different take on, “Charity seeketh not her own.” But it also warns us about Satan’s tactics.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 20:29 So for example, here we have in Alma 43, I personally read the Book of Mormon this way. Alma 43 toward the beginning, verse four, “For behold it came to pass that the Zoramites,” these were Nephite-type dissidents. So these are lighter people that the Zoramites became Lamanites, which at that time was becoming more of a philosophy.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 21:07 Start with verse six. “And now as the Amalekites,” who were Nephite dissidents, “were of a more wicked and murderous disposition than the Lamanites were in and of themselves, therefore, Zerahemnah,” and this is a Nephite dissident, “appointed chief captains over the Lamanites and they were all Amalekites and Zoramites.”

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 21:26 And here’s the key, “Now this he did that he might preserve their hatred towards the Nephites, that he might bring them into subjection to the accomplishment of his designs.” And what were his designs? They were to stir up the Lamanites to anger against the Nephites.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 21:46 That tells me as a black person in the latter days for which the book was written, to be on the lookout for this tactic by Lucifer to stir up people against people of a different color or culture.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 22:07 And this is throughout the Book of Mormon. Look at Alma 48:1, “It came to pass that as soon as Amalickiah,” a Nephite dissident rejected the Church, tried to get authority, had obtained the kingdom, “he began to inspire the hearts of the Lamanites against the people of Nephi.”

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 22:27 And note this, “Ye, he did appoint men to speak unto the Lamanites from their towers against the Nephites.” So today, whether I’m black or white or whatever I am, as a reader of the Book of Mormon, I’m on the lookout for dissidents who seek to turn people against others of a different color or culture, and who maybe even use technology to do it, what are today’s towers or platforms. Just a couple of others, in Alma 35:8, “Now the people of Zoramites were angry with the people of Ammon.” You remember that the people of Ammon were Lamanites. They were people of color, the Zoramites were not. “And the chief ruler of the Zoramites being a very wicked man sent over unto the people of Ammon, desiring them that they should cast out of their land all who came over from them into their land. And he breathed out many threatenings against them, and now the people of Ammon did not fear their words, therefore they did not cast them out, but they did receive all the poor of the Zoramites.” In verse 10, “Now this did stir up the Zoramites to anger against the people of Ammon.”

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 23:54 So here you have all of the variations of this. You have people of dissidents stirring up people of color against others. You have dissidents stirring up their own people against the people of color. In various places, you have Lamanite leaders, I’m thinking of Mosiah 10 where King Laman stirs up his people against the Nephites.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 24:24 And so you have every variation of this throughout the Book of Mormon, all of it to warn us in the last days to not be stirred up to anger against people of other colors and cultures by those who are seeking power.

John Bytheway: 24:45 And I love what you said about this as a family matter. I always tell my classes that this was true for these people in this time, whatever gave us the idea we could apply this to the whole world? The Book of Mormon doesn’t tell us to do that. I love when I could see something new in there. How did you say that? Be on the lookout for those who stir up conflict among people of another culture or race to gain power. That’s so good.

John Bytheway: 25:19 That is a message of the book. If you want to look at it  … purposes.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 25:22 It’s a recurring theme.

John Bytheway: 25:26 Throughout Mosiah and Alma, especially it’s these… if I can just get people hating each other. And then you’ve got, who is it that refuses to do it, John? Lehonti. Like, “I refuse to do this.” But then ….

John Bytheway: 25:40 I’m not coming down from my mountain, but then he does. And I loved equating towers with modern platforms. So good.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 25:52 Right? As I recall, other than the tower of Babel, I may be wrong, but I think that’s the first time towers were used for wicked purposes.

John Bytheway: 26:06 Because a couple of chapters before, Captain Moroni caused the Title of Liberty to be hoisted upon every tower, that’s Alma 46. And then you get to 48. Well yeah, we can use towers too. So they go up to their towers.

John Bytheway: 26:20 Kind of like the internet.

John Bytheway: 26:23 Yeah, preach hatred against the Nephites. One tower says, love God. One says hate Nephites. And they gear up for a war. Very wonderful.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 26:32 Man, that is powerful insight. It really is. I can see seminary teachers all over and institute teachers saying “Oh thank you for that.”

John Bytheway: 26:42 I’m scribbling notes right now.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 26:45 Because it’s scary to teach these things in a class where you feel like, “Do I even have a right to talk about this?”

John Bytheway: 26:53 But there’s such positivity, thank you Brother Corbitt. Was it Lynne Wilson who said that there’s this language that is climbing the charts like crazy?

John Bytheway: 27:03 It’s this language that is climbing the charts like crazy, as far as the membership of the Church, and it is French. And the reason why, is because of-

John Bytheway: 27:10 Africa.

John Bytheway: 27:10 … converts in Africa. And how exciting that is. Especially, since my daughter and son-in-law speak French.

John Bytheway: 27:18 Oh, do they?

John Bytheway: 27:20 Because of their missions.

John Bytheway: 27:22 I’ve heard Dr. Dan Judd talk about the work in Africa, and he says it’s 1820, 1830, the miracles are…

John Bytheway: 27:29 Right. Oh Hank, you said that before. “It’s always 1820 somewhere.” That’s Elder Holland, right? And I hope our listeners might really be inspired by going to speeches.byu.edu and find E. Dale LeBaron who gave a talk called… I think it was called “African Converts Without Baptism.” And then he wrote a book called All Are Alike Under God using that 2 Nephi 26:33. He was the mission president in South Africa after Official Declaration 2. And his experiences going in are so fun to read about finding people that the Lord had prepared just like you walking down the street. Brother Corbitt, what a cool story.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 28:24 And our leaders are so clear. They’re so unequivocal on this, on denouncing racism, inviting people to repent for racism or racist feelings or things like that, prejudice generally. But they do it in the Lord’s way. They set an example for how to do it. And we all have. Growing up as I did, when we first came to Church, the very first time we visited a ward building in 1980, it was overwhelmingly white. We weren’t used to that obviously with the nation of Islam and the black church, but there was such undeniable love in the eyes and hearts of the people that it was actually more powerful that they were white showing that love to a black family. It was more powerful to us because it was more stark. I think that’s what the First Presidency and the Twelve envision as they look forward and see the Church gathering all of us into one family of God in design.

John Bytheway: 29:38 Yes. And no more… You quoted 4 Nephi and they were one as the children of Christ. No more -ites. It was our identity comes from Article of Faith number 1, we are sons and daughters of God. Yeah. Well, Brother Corbitt, absolutely beautiful. I’m just feeling that it’s good for us to be here today, but I think our listeners would love to hear some more about you. Exactly how old were you when you came in contact with the Church, when you joined the Church, when you went on a mission? And then maybe you could close with your feelings about the Restored Gospel?

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 30:16 Sure, sure. I was 17-years-old. Missionaries came by our home. My parents had moved over to southern New Jersey. I remained in Philadelphia to graduate high school. They let me do that. The missionaries came by and tracked into our family. We later found out that they had fasted and prayed for a family that was prepared for the gospel. So that was a very validating experience, but we, mom and four younger siblings, they’re 10 of us children were baptized a month later in June of around late June or so of 1980. My older sister and I were baptized two months later on my 18th birthday in August. And then my dad about a year later, a little less. And then my older brother who was already out of the home and had his own family, he was baptized 14 years later.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 31:14 So both parents and all 10 children joined the Church and it changed our lives. And by living the gospel, we became much better. Now, testimony-wise, the gospel and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are much more than things that make people better. Yes, “They make bad men good, and bad men good, and good men better,” as Brigham Young said, but I testify that this Church is the Kingdom of God on earth, that it is the Church of Jesus Christ. It’s the one He organized when He was upon the earth, but restored after a period of falling away with, as we said in the Articles of Faith, apostles and prophets and pastors and evangelists and so on.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 32:15 I bear witness that those who hold the keys in this Church hold the keys of the kingdom, delegated from heaven and have the power to unlock opportunity for God’s children to receive the doctrine of Christ, including its ordinances and covenants, and its laws, and to come under Christ and be saved by His grace and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 32:50 I bear witness that the Book of Mormon and the Bible and the other scriptures are the word of God. And I love them. And as we seek to guide our lives by them and through them and with them, we will be happier, whatever our circumstances. I know that to be true and have experienced it. I know that I love my family, my wife, Jane, our children, our wonderful six children, our 12 grandchildren, more to come. And Jane and I are together forever. We will be exalted in the Celestial Kingdom, in the presence of God. And we will have our family with us. And that promise is to all the faithful, regardless of whether we’re married now or not. And so I bear witness of these truths of the joy and peace and happiness of the gospel, even amidst trying times. And I do so in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

John Bytheway: 34:01 Amen. John, I’m really glad you’re friends with Brother Corbitt. This was such a wonderful, wonderful day.

John Bytheway: 34:14 Oh, I just hope people feel the wonderful spirit that we felt and are blessed by this.

Bro. Ahmad Corbitt: 34:21 I’m glad to be friends with you.

John Bytheway: 34:22 Oh, I mean, John was right. It is good for us to be here.

John Bytheway: 34:28 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 34:29 And we hope everyone who listens feels that same way. Thank you for taking time for our podcast. We’re grateful for your support. We couldn’t do anything without our executive producer, Steve and Shannon Sorensen and their wonderful children and grandchildren. We love you. And to our production crew, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilson, David Perry, Kyle Nelson, Will Stoughton, and Scott Houston. We love you. Thank you. And we hope all of you will join us on our next episode of followHIM.