Hank Smith: 00:01 Welcome to followHIM, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come, Follow Me Study. I’m Hank Smith.

John Bytheway: 00:09 And I’m John Bytheway.

Hank Smith: 00:11 We love to learn.

John Bytheway: 00:11 We love to laugh.

Hank Smith: 00:13 We want to learn and laugh with you.

John Bytheway: 00:15 As together, we followHIM.

Hank Smith: 00:19 Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith and I am here with my wonderful, affable co-host, John Bytheway. Hello, John Bytheway.

John Bytheway: 00:31 Hi. Thank you for calling me affable and someday I hope to know what that means.

Hank Smith: 00:35 You are affable. It means approachable, courteous, gentle, good-humored. Okay. Not that I have a thesaurus in front of me. John, we are another on really important sections, a lesson, a couple of sections in the Doctrine and Covenants. And so we needed a very important to guest for a very important lesson. Who’s with us today?

John Bytheway: 01:00 Yes. Thanks, Hank. I have looked forward to these three sections from Liberty Jail for a long time, and so glad to have Brother Baugh with us again. And if you’ve listened to us before, you’ve heard us introduce Brother Baugh. But I’ll do it again here to remind you.

John Bytheway: 01:18 I’ve always just heard people say, in our circles, Hank, that this guy is the Church’s expert on Missouri. Yeah. So Alexander L. Baugh is a professor and chair of the Department of Church History and Doctrine at Brigham Young University, where he has been a full-time faculty member since 1995.

John Bytheway: 01:38 He received his bachelor’s degree from Utah State, his master’s and PhD from BYU. He specializes in researching and writing about the Missouri period of early Church History, 1831 through 1839. He’s the author, editor, or co-editor of 10 books including three volumes of the document series of the Joseph Smith Papers.

John Bytheway: 02:02 Documents volumes 4, 5, and 6. In addition, he has published more than 80 historical journal articles. Sorry, 80 just made me laugh. It’s just a funny number. No, that’s a lot.

Hank Smith: 02:12 Yeah. That is a lot.

John Bytheway: 02:14 It’s also the past editor of the Mormon Historical Studies, past co-director of Research for the BYU Religious Study Center. He’s married to the former Susan Johnson. They’re the parents of five children and they live in Highland, Utah. And we’re so glad to have you back. And I’ve got my red pencil ready to mark and learn these sections even better.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 02:35 Thank you so much, Hank and John for the second invitation. I mean, this is very, very, very kind of you to include me again. I’m honored to be here.

Hank Smith: 02:49 Alex-

John Bytheway: 02:49 We’re just glad to have you back.

Hank Smith: 02:50 … Yeah. We just can’t say enough. Alex, you’re not only just an incredible historian, you’re a great friend. I’ve been looking forward to this interview. Let’s jump right in, Alex. I know you know way more than you can tell us, but if someone were to ask you, leading up to Section 121, how does Joseph Smith find himself in Liberty Jail? How does he get there? How far back do we need to go to give everybody a background to this section?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 03:29 Well, you’re spot on. I think most people are, if you asked them to just summarize the life of Joseph Smith in their own words in two minutes or less, they would give some just generalities, and then they’d say, “Oh yeah, he was incarcerated in Liberty Jail.” They don’t know much more, and it was a tough time. And that he eventually got out and went to Quincy and then Nauvoo.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 03:56 And yeah, there’s a lot of backstory, I guess you might say. But it’s a very, very, such a significant episode in Joseph Smith’s life. This is a life-changing, life redirecting of Joseph Smith’s life, and mission, and emphasis. He was a changed man.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 04:20 And I think we can, we’ll definitely highlight that in more detail. But I am so grateful that Orson Pratt in the 1870s, as he’s preparing a new addition of the Doctrine and Covenants would go through some of the original documents that were housed in the old historian’s office and look at these letters.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 04:47 Now, again, we just have the Liberty Jail material is Section 121, 122, and 123. And had he not put that in there, there would have been even less understanding of the situation he was in. But you think about it. And I think you’d both agree in almost every single General Conference, these sections, at least 121 and 122 are mentioned almost every [General] Conference.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 05:19 It just happens over and over again, because there’s so much meaning behind what Joseph Smith’s experiencing here and what the Lord is trying to help him understand. So these are powerful revelations that, they’re all powerful revelations, don’t get me wrong. But so often cited and we just need to understand them more because they’re so engaging and sobering.

Hank Smith: 05:51 What’s taught, I would say is hundreds, 100, 200 years before its time.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 05:58 We’re in Jackson County from 1831 to 1833. Things break down there. We move on. We go to Clay County and things were relatively well. They were okay. Clay County citizens were very tolerant and understanding quite on the, as a whole. And from late 1833 to summer of 1836, things were going pretty well. But the Clay County citizens never intended for us to be… They were wanted to help, but there was going to be a time when they moved on.

Hank Smith: 06:34 What did Benjamin Franklin say? Fish and guests-

John Bytheway: 06:38 Fish and guests, yeah.

Hank Smith: 06:39 … stink after three days. And man, we’ve been here three years.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 06:42 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 06:43 So it’s like a lot of parents when their kids move in a little. “So what are your plans?”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 06:48 “When are you getting out of here?”

John Bytheway: 06:49 “So what exactly were you thinking?”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 06:53 So by 1836, we’re beginning to look elsewhere and we had some help. Our attorney and good friend Alexander Doniphan was now a member of the state legislature. And we had done some exploratory work and seen some areas in Northern Missouri that looked promising. And sure enough, he’s a… We began to move into a unincorporated Ray County. So it’s attached, but it’s not actually fully Ray County.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 07:29 And this is when Doniphan says, “Let’s make a county for the Latter-day Saints.” And he does. And guess who signs it? Boggs, the governor creates this county for us. And we begin moving in, in summer of 1836. And quite frankly, things go well. We figure we’ve solved the problem. We have our own county.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 07:53 But things break down beginning in 1838. And one of the key things that really started to alarm people was in March of 1838, Joseph Smith arrives in Far West.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 08:10 He left Kirtland in January, but he arrives two months later. And Sidney Rigdon is there with him and Hyrum Smith’s on his way. So here comes the First Presidency of the Church. And for seven, eight years, the Missourians are going, “Well, their headquarters are in Kirtland, but the leadership’s there. We have a body of them here.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 08:36 But that signaled some red flags, I think, to the Missourians. Here comes Joseph Smith. Here’s the First Presidency. They’re here. And Far West is designated as the central gathering spot. So I can understand a little bit of the Missourians’ concerns. Now, not everyone of course, but that I think is very significant.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 09:02 I think the other sad thing is that the apostasy in Kirtland transplants into Missouri. And no sooner does Joseph Smith get there, then we have to deal with some of the key leaders of the Church who are, let’s just put it this way, a little bit shaky.

Hank Smith: 09:22 So Alex, how is Joseph Smith showing up in Missouri? How was he handling all this?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 09:30 Well, he passes it off a little bit to the Missouri High Council. And again, it’s just a rather convoluted situation. But they have to deal with some of the problems. And unfortunately, some of the leaders, main leaders of the Church get caught up in this. So besides John Whitmer and W.W. Phelps, again, as we mentioned, we lose Oliver. We lose David Whitmer. We lose Lyman Johnson, an apostle.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 10:02 We lose William E. McClellan, an apostle. Frederick G. Williams is having problems. So here’s this high-powered leadership that is just, they’re just struggling. And the Church is trying to deal with this internal dissension. It’s a sad episode, but I think we just move on and this will play out. As you can see in Section 121 when Joseph is reflecting upon the loss of these wonderful men who have become disaffected from the Church.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 10:42 So, that’s another thing. The other problem, of course, is they continued to create problems, and began to initiate vexatious lawsuits and threatened them. And so, unfortunately, we have an episode in which the dissenters are dealt with in a harsh way. And that is that Sidney Rigdon in June, it gives this Salt Sermon. And basically what he does in that sermon is try to tell everyone who is creating the problem, all the ones who are creating problems, “If you’re creating problems, it’s time to leave. And if you don’t leave, we’ll help you.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 11:28 And within a matter of a few days, most of these dissenters left Far West out of… Back in those days, you could warn people out of town. I mean, that was a common thing. And I won’t go into that in too much detail. But they left. Well, where do they go?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 11:46 Well, they go to Liberty and also Richmond in, there’s Clay County and also Ray County. And people see these Latter-day Saint leaders and go, “Why are you no longer with them?” Well, we’ve no longer began or we’re no longer going to be affiliated with them. And so they see, well, these Missourians would say, “Well, boy, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, and the Latter-day Saint leadership must be bad, corrupt men.” They’re not at all. But the point is they were expelled. They’re now out of the Latter-day Saint community and people are going, “Well, what’s going on in Far West?”

Hank Smith: 12:29 It doesn’t look good to have apostles disaffecting. Right? It’s not a good PR move and people, I got to imagine, yeah, the Missourians are going, “This looks unstable.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 12:40 Yeah, exactly, exactly. Now to complicate things, we have a dedication of the cornerstones of the Far West Temple on July 4th, wonderful day. Independence Day, we’re celebrating this. And the Latter-day Saints are just excited to be able to dedicate this temple site. And during the course of that wonderful celebration, Sidney Rigdon speaks again, and he gives a wonderful patriotic sermon. But then the very last part of that, he basically becomes a little bit vitriolic and says, “Now, we’re here. We don’t intend to cause any problems. But if things come to push and shove, we’ll shove back.” And he said, in fact he used the word, “It’ll be a war of extermination.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 13:40 Well, this speech got a lot of Missourians a little bit agitated. Now, again, Latter-day Saints had no intentions of hurting anyone. But they saw that as a call to the Latter-day Saints are going to come and insight war and conflict. That wasn’t the intent at all. But it was circulated that, that talk got actually got printed.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 14:10 So not surprising. A month later in early August, we have elections. Well, where have we now settled? And this is another important factor is that by 1838, we’ve expanded beyond Caldwell County.

Hank Smith: 14:29 Now, Caldwell, we’re just mentioning this for the first time, but Caldwell is the county that was created for the Latter-day Saints. Right?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 14:36 Exactly. Yeah. But in early May, mid-May, Joseph Smith had gone up to the area which we call Adam-ondi-Ahman to visit Lyman Wight and to do some explorations. And that’s where Joseph Smith learns that this area was Adam-ondi-Ahman. And during June of 1838, a lot of Latter-day Saints began moving up into that region.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 15:00 So we’ve expanded outside where we weren’t supposed to be in terms of some people’s minds in their view. Now it’s a free country. You can settle anywhere you want. But we had also settled in a little area in Carroll County, a little community called Dewitt. And there were some other isolated settlements outside Caldwell County. But I think some Missourians said, “Now, hold it, we created this county for you. Why are you going outside that boundary?”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 15:31 In a very real way, they created a Mormon reservation. Confine yourselves to Caldwell. We’ll be fine. But we’ve expanded out too far. So that caused, I’m sure, some red flags. So what happens then? And it all begins, historians give that, as far as a timeline of the, where they call it the Mormon Missouri War with the outbreak of hostilities at the city, little community of Gallatin, which is the county seat in Davies County to the north on August 6th, in which Latter-day Saint men come there to vote. It’s Election Day. It’s the state elections.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 16:22 And sure enough, a good old brawl breaks out and no one’s killed. But there’s some pretty sore skulls and some bruises, and cracked heads. And unfortunately, the word is out that a couple of people were killed and Joseph Smith has to go up there and try to settle the… He basically goes up there a couple of days later with several, a couple hundred men and goes to Adam Black. He’s the Justice of the Peace up there and says, “Now, you have to maintain the peace. You’ve got to do this. That’s your responsibility.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 17:01 Well, Adam Black took that as a threat, and he actually issues a charge against Joseph Smith. So, this is, you can see things starting to break down. And so the election day brawl, they call it the Election Day Battle, but it was a knock-down brawl begins that conflict, if you will. It’s the inaugural event.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 17:29 And then unfortunately for the next several weeks, there’s a lot of hostilities perpetrated against the Latter-day Saints in Davies county. And it’s gets so bad that a regional militia is called to go up there and settle the differences. And it was led by none other than David Rice Atchison. And Atchison is the Regional Militia Commander of the Missouri militia up there. The troops in that area, his sub commander is Alexander Doniphan.

Hank Smith: 18:06 They’re both friends. Right? [Of] the Latter-day Saints.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 18:07 Both friends. They are. They are men of justice. And they basically told the Davies County citizens who’s doing these terrible things to the Latter-day Saints, “Leave them alone. They have a right to be here. Now, just settle those differences.” They do. And they retreat and we think things are going to be okay.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 18:32 Well, these Daviess County citizens who are very antagonistic to the Latter-day Saints say, “Well, okay, if we can’t incite anyone here to, we can’t do anything right now,” they pick another spot and they go down to Carroll County. Well, this is a county still there today. It’s just east of Ray County.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 18:54 And that’s where the Latter-day Saints had established a small community called Dewitt. And there was about 400 Latter Day Saints there. And these men in Daviess County incited the people in Carroll county, “Let’s go after the Latter-day Saints here and get them out of your county.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 19:12 And they literally, from October 1 to October 10, 10 days, surrounded that community and literally starved us out. There was no one killed. There were some shots fired, but finally the Latter-day Saints have to agree to leave and they do. And most of them made their way to Far West. One woman dies on the way to Far West, but there was a side fatality.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 19:41 But Joseph Smith writes Governor Boggs and says, “You’ve got to do something.” And Boggs basically sends the message, “No. It’s between the Mormons and the mob. I can’t call out troops every time we have problems.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 19:59 And this is when the Church leadership decides, “Well, we have to do something.” Now, I don’t know if, you’ve all known what a mad dog can do. If you put a dog in the corner and treat him badly, eventually he’s going to defend himself.

Hank Smith: 20:19 I’ve heard you say this before, Alex, this has been we’re up to seven years now of incredible restraint.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 20:27 Totally.

Hank Smith: 20:28 From the Latter-day Saints.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 20:29 I think our ability, we really have to commend them for trying so hard to maintain peace and order. They’re trying to be law-abiding citizens. But now the problem is we’re just not getting any help. Now we got some from Atchison and Doniphan up in Daviess County. But there comes a point of self-defense. Maybe in fact, let me go to Doctrine and Covenants. If you don’t mind, just for a minute.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 21:01 Section 134. Now that’s the marvelous section on laws pertaining to government in general. It’s a wonderful, wonderful synopsis of the role of government, and religion, and so on. But look at what verse 11, 134 verse 11. “We believe that man should appeal to the civil law for redress of all wrongs and grievances, where personal abuse is inflicted or the right of property or character infringed, where such laws exist as we’ll protect the same.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 21:37 All they’re saying is if people come against you personally, you have a right to go to the courts to try to rectify and solve that, the dispute or engagement. But look at this. “But we believe that all men are justified in defending themselves, their friends, and property, and the government from unlawful assaults and encroachments of all persons in times of exigency, where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws and relief afforded.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 22:08 If the government’s not going to step in and help us, we’ve got to do something. I feel like the Latter Day Saints did everything they could to try to maintain order and peace. But finally, we’ve got to do something. We have to protect ourselves. And so what happens? Well, we go into Daviess county. This is in the first weeks of October, actually mid-October. And our men up there decided to go after the men who are perpetrating these offenses.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 22:43 And I guess I’m not proud of it, but what would you do? And they went to Gallatin. They went to Millport, and they went to the Grindstone Fork settlements, where these perpetrators were centered. And yeah, they burned Jacob Stolling’s store. Now, unfortunately, that also included a post office. And again, that’s-

Hank Smith: 23:12 That’s a federal building.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 23:15 … a federal offense, yeah. So sure enough, they sent a message, “Please, leave us alone. We have a right. We have rights.”

Hank Smith: 23:24 Who’s [crosstalk 00:23:25] that it’s offensive? Is this Lyman Wight?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 23:28 Okay. We got Lyman Wight who’s a war of 1812 veteran. We’ve got one. We’ve got the toughest guy we’ve got in the church, David Patton, Captain Fear not, labeled as this. He was courageous to a fault. And then we have Seymour Brunson and they’re the men who go after these men in Daviess county. Now, if they didn’t get the message, well, it caused problems, additional problems.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 24:02 As soon as you do something someone else, the hostilities will escalate. There’s retribution and so on and so forth. And that’s exactly what happened. Now, Joseph Smith was up there, but he was at Adam-ondi-Ahman and he wasn’t involved in any of that. But they come back and sure enough, things are really starting to break down. I should say Mormon. I use Mormon and I hope [crosstalk 00:24:28] or-

Hank Smith: 24:29 That’s what they call this, then I think we’ll be okay.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 24:33 … But a lot of these people, in fact, it got so bad that many, if not, almost all of the non Latter Day Saints decided to leave Daviess county. And they went over to Livingston county, fearing the Latter Day Saints, or they’re coming. So what happens?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 24:56 A man by the name of Samuel Bogart down in Ray county says, “Well, we don’t want any of this happening in our county.” And so he begins to patrol the line between Ray county on the south and Caldwell county on the north. And I really believe he’s trying to bait the Latter Day Saints because he takes three prisoners and then immediately word sent that they’re going to kill them. He takes three Latter Day Saint men and with his force, he takes them and he camps on Crooked river. Well, when we hear about that, what happens? Well, we get a small group-

Hank Smith: 25:35 We’re going to go get our people.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 25:37 … Yeah. We got to save these guys. They’re going to die.

John Bytheway: 25:40 Where they trumped up charges, or did he just grabs three random guys?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 25:43 Yeah. Addison Green Sealy another, yeah. They were just on the borders there, the county. So they pick up these three men. And I really think he was baiting the Latter Day Saints because-

Hank Smith: 25:54 He wants the Latter Day Saints. “Come after us.” Right? Give us a reason.

John Bytheway: 25:59 Did those guys do anything wrong or was it-

Dr. Alex Baugh: 26:00 No, no, no.

John Bytheway: 26:02 … it was just a strategy on his part?

Hank Smith: 26:04 They were just in the wrong place.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 26:05 Yeah. And where does he camp? Just below the county line. And what does he do? He waits. And word is sent that they’re going to kill these guys by morning. And so who comes in to rescue? Well, David Patton. He gets about 60 men and says, “Let’s go rescue these people.” We find a young man who knows where they’re at, his name’s Patterson O’Banion. They come down in the middle of the night.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 26:32 And in the early morning hours, they find them camped on Crooked river. Now, the problem is we have our own militia, but we can only confine ourselves to Caldwell County. So he’s legitimate, if you would say that as state troops and here’s the Latter-day Saint Militia, the Caldwell Militia, coming after him outside their jurisdiction. And sure enough, a battle ensues and three Latter-day Saint men are killed, including Patton.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 27:01 One Missouri and was killed, Moses Roland. But what happens is a man by the name of, I think it was Wiley Williams, is immediately dispatched to Jefferson City where the capital is to, and he tells governor Boggs that the Mormons who completely annihilated this militia company by Bogart. And so he gets a false report. And what does he issue? Extermination order on the 27th.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 27:33 Now, that battle of Crooked River took place on the 25th. And two days later, he’s getting the message. And he says, “We’ve received news of an entirely terrible report. The Mormons must be treated as enemies and exterminated,” or in other words, driven from the state. So, now we have the entire regional militia actually malicious from all over the middle part of the Missouri now starting to formulate and come against the Latter Day Saints.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 28:06 So, unfortunately at this time on the 30th, a local militia unit from Livingston county, where most of the Davies county citizens had fled. When they came there they go, “What are you doing leaving your homes and coming here?” And they said, “Well, the Latter Day Saints have they expelled us.” And they said, “Well, you know what? We can do better than that. There’s a little community on the fringes of Caldwell county at Hahn’s mill. And why don’t we, instead of just driving them out, why don’t we just go kill them and send a stronger message?”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 28:46 So that perpetrates the Haun’s Mill Massacre on October 30th. And unfortunately, again, they were in the wrong place. Latter Day Saints were in the wrong place at the wrong time. None of these people had done anything to the Missourians up there in Davies county, none of them.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 29:05 And I’ve researched as many as I can to find how many where these marauders were coming from. And they were from Davies county and also Livingston county. So they’re coming now to as a revenge factor. Well, we had to leave our county. Now, we’ll just enact this against you.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 29:26 So it was totally illegal. There’s incredible evidence to know that there was no extermination order received. They didn’t know that, but that’s not what Boggs was even implying. He wasn’t saying, “Let’s go in and kill people.” And later he will say, and I should say, I’ve mentioned this on numerous occasions, but Boggs’ intention was a removal order, not an extermination order. Exterminate in an 1828 Webster’s dictionary is to remove from within one’s borders. That’s the first definition.

Hank Smith: 30:00 So it’s not legal to go and kill Latter Day Saints. This is not legal. That’s not what he intended.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 30:07 Nope.

John Bytheway: 30:07 Yeah. And I’ve heard you say that before, and that’s important, I think and you said it just now, “Or removed from the state.” And I think that today when we call an exterminator, we’re not saying, “Would you take these cockroaches with you back to your place?” Yeah. An exterminator is to kill them all. So this is a good clarification.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 30:28 Yeah. And I think there’s been this misconception in the church that he’s a cold-blooded, thirsty killer. Well, he was a Christian. He had 10 children. But he was acting politically. And he’s just trying to wash his hands of all this. And he’s just saying, “Well, we just got to get rid of them, and let’s make sure they leave the state.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 30:50 And that comes into the Liberty Jail experience. And I’ll try to tie that in. But simply put, he’s basically trying to tell his people now, “We’re going to send the militia and they will enact a surrender. And we’re going to make sure the Mormons leave the state. Now, if they don’t, they’ll be greater repercussions.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 31:16 But that’s his original intent. Now, there was some confusion with some of the generals. What does that really mean? But I think it was clear that that was, we negotiate a piece and then we’ll have to do something to try to make arrangements so that they will leave the state.

Hank Smith: 31:33 It seems like our governor, governor Boggs here is just acting off hearsay. Right? He’s acting off of rumor.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 31:43 No question. In fact, David Rice Atchison, who’s the regional militia commander, and again, sympathetic Latter Day Saints, writes him and says, “You’ve got to come out here. You’ve got to see firsthand what’s going on.” They’re very much aware that the Latter Day Saints are getting picked on and the governor could have done a lot to try to restore order, but he refuses. He just doesn’t come to the scene of action and that’s his responsibility, but he doesn’t do it.

John Bytheway: 32:15 How far away was he? Where was the governor?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 32:18 Jefferson City is what? 150 miles maybe. And the other sad part about this is when he decides to actually call regional militia or state militia if you want, they come from a number of areas, what does he do? He relieves David Rice Atchison of his command. And he puts a guy in place named John B. Clark from central, Missouri, who has no clue what’s really going on over there.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 32:47 And he’s not at the scene of action. David Rice Atchison has to get on his horse and go down, back down to Liberty. Now his troops are there, but he’s no longer the regional militia commander. And guess who takes charge? There’s no regional commander. So the commander from Jackson county and also Lafayette county are two counties south of the Missouri river. None other than Samuel D. Lucas from Jackson county, who is a, does not like the Mormons.

Hank Smith: 33:20 Yeah. He hates them.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 33:22 Yeah. So he’s out there.

Hank Smith: 33:24 Now he’s in charge.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 33:25 He’s in charge until John B. Clark gets there. Now, John B. Clark, like you say, he’s from Howard county. That’s just center part of the state. He’s got to get there. And by the time he gets there, the Latter Day Saints have surrendered and Samuel Lucas has got Joseph Smith down in independence. He’s not even on the scene to conduct this surrender.

Hank Smith: 33:48 Let’s talk more just for a second about Haun’s Mill. I know that Latter Day Saints are interested in this. So these people, they weren’t part, and I want to be clear, we hadn’t killed anyone. We were defending ourselves. And the act of revenge was find the closest group of Latter Day Saints and murder them. And these people are, some of them you’ve told me before, Alex, there’s some of these people are just stopping there on the way to get to far west because they’re coming from Ohio.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 34:22 Yeah, this is the last, one of the last groups to come. Now, notice what time of year it is. We’re October. The harvest season is done, or they’re just trying to get there before bad weather. And a group of, one of the last groups headed up by the [inaudible 00:34:41] is 70 is the brother of Brigham Young is Joseph Young. And he’s with a few saints there.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 34:51 And this is the incident, of course, with Amanda Barnes Smith. She’s in this Kirtland, poor camp coming at the very end and just happens to be laid over 16 miles away from far west. They have one more day to get there, and they’re just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And so these are Latter Day Saints who are living in the area and the community, and they’ve done nothing in terms of the Daviess county situation.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 35:19 They weren’t involved in that. And then a number of them are also just coming into the county as they are making their way to far west to winter there during the last leg of the journey. So it’s so traumatic. It’s just unbelievably bizarre circumstances, a totally innocent group. They come on the afternoon of the 30th and there’s about 200 to 250 of them.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 35:51 Again, every single one of them is either from Livingston county or Davies county to the north, every one of them. And they’re acting under the guise of militia, but they’ve received no orders to do this. And they just go at us and there’s 17 men and boys killed. And another 15 wounded. It’s the worst tragedy in our history associated with the persecution. We could take a whole session on that.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 36:22 We have one woman who’s went injured, Mary Stedwell, fortunately, just her hand. But a couple of boys, it’s just brutal. It’s a sad, sad event. And I have to tell you, Amanda Barns Smith is my hero, heroine. She is an amazing woman. Her story is just one of complete faith and devotion to the cause. Won’t go into it, but she comes to Utah. She is a Stalwart Relief Society sister in Salt Lake. She goes up to Richmond to visit her daughter, passes away. And she’s buried in the Richmond cemetery.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 37:04 And every single Memorial day, I go up to Richmond because my wife’s family is from there. And I put a rose on Amanda Barnes Smith grave. Every, every Memorial day. I’ve done it I think for about 14 years. She is my heroine. I look forward to seeing her. And if any of her descendants are in the church, but not in the church, they need to read her history of her sacrifice.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 37:36 It’s powerful stuff. So anyway, when Joseph Smith learns of this terrible incident, he asked Colonel Hinkle, the regional commander of the Latter Day Saints. He has a state commissioned officership in the militia. He’s legitimate militia, but he’s a Latter Day Saint. He says, “Beg like a dog for peace. This has got to stop.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 38:05 And unfortunately, and again, there’s some discrepancies, but Hinkle basically says, meets with Lucas and their officer, his officers, and agrees to bring Joseph Smith and few others down. And Joseph thinks it’s going to be for negotiation purposes. Now, all this is covered really, really well in volume six of the Joseph Smith Papers. I just have to say, there’s lot of components here.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 38:38 But when Joseph gets down there, Lucas immediately puts him under arrest and several others. They decide to now, of course, go after the leadership so that we can now somehow negotiate some sort of surrender. But in the meantime, Lucas is going, “Well, we can settle this rather quickly. And that is let’s just go ahead and have a court martial.” And they do. And on a November 1, they hold a court martial for Joseph Smith and seven prisoners.

Hank Smith: 39:16 You have to love Joseph Smith for not escalating the violence after Han’s Mill. Right? Because there would be a natural piece of me that says, look, you’re killing our little boys. You’re shooting these little children. We’re going to come after you. But he says, “No, don’t do it.” Right. “I don’t want to see any more bloodshed.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 39:40 Yeah. He’s trying to somehow restore some sort of element of peace. And I think he realizes the numbers. We just didn’t have the numbers. Now, there was about 900 Latter Day Saint defenders in Caldwell county. There was 2,500 Missourians’ camp south of far west. Now that’s not good odds. And fortunately, again, I think Joseph acted correctly. And he was willing to, “Okay, let’s at least negotiate a peace,” but in the process he is put into, he he’s taken into custody, which I think surprised him.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 40:23 Now, what happens is they have this court martial. Now, I should mention the individuals they have now in their custody are Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Parley Pratt. He was in the Battle of Crooked River. Lyman Wight, of course, he was up there in Davies county, and George W. Robinson. Now that’s Joseph Smith’s secretary.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 40:42 And then they get Amis Suleiman and Hyrum, Amis Suleiman and Hyrum. So there’s our seven prisoners. And he, on the evening of the first, he says, “Let’s have a court martial.” They have a court martial. Now, it was not all unanimous, but basically it was we’re going to court martial him. And he ordered Joseph Smith and these other six prisoners to be shot the following morning, taken to far west and shot.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 41:12 And that’s when Doniphan steps up and says, “You cannot do this. Joseph Smith is a civilian.” And Don, he’s not a soldier, has nothing to do with state militia. And he says, “If you execute these men, I…” In fact, Donovan was told to do it. He said, “I refuse to.” He’s telling a superior officer, “I cannot do this and will not. And if you do, I will hold you responsible before an earthly tribunal. So help me, God.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 41:44 He’s an attorney. And he’s willing to take on Lucas and Lucas has to back down. There’s just no question. He can’t do this. And so sure enough, he said, “I’m going to [crosstalk 00:41:57] tomorrow.

Hank Smith: 41:57 Alexander Donovan just saved Joseph Smith’s life.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 42:00 There is no question. And I am a Donovan fan. So is Joseph Smith, he named his son, Alexander Hale Smith, after Doniphan. Now he didn’t know him long, but this man helped him and helped the Church. So meanwhile, then there’s a surrender. And basically what happens now is the next day Joseph Smith’s taken up. This is now November 2nd. He’s taken up with these six other printers back to Far West. And what do they do?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 42:30 They’ve got a few minutes to go to their homes and get some personal effects. And they come back to the square. They’re under guard and they come back to the square. They’re put in a wagon. Mother Smith can’t even see them. Joseph sticks his hand through the canvas or the wagon. And she doesn’t know if she’s going to see her son again, sons again. There’s Hiram in there as well.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 42:57 And Lucas says, “We’re going to take these boys down to the Independence where he’s from, and they’re going to wait now for the arrival of John B. Clark, who’s on his way, but he’s not even there. And we’re going to take these men away and then we’ll see what we’re supposed to do with them.” So that, John and Hank, is the backstory.

Hank Smith: 43:22 So Joseph thinks he’s going to a negotiation and he gets arrested.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 43:27 Yep. Now, again, there’s some components there that are a little bit hard to all put together. But Hinkle will later say, “Hey, I was just, I thought they were just going to talk with you, too.” I think there was some misdeeds by Hinkle. Now, again, that’s a whole nother story. And we can maybe talk about that a little bit because he does turn state’s evidence, state’s witness in the hearing that’s going to be held for Joseph Smith. Hinkle tries to save his neck. So he decides to give testify in this hearing. So he’s duplicit. There’s no question that Hinkle’s just trying to save his own skin there.

John Bytheway: 44:16 I just want to make sure I understand. Independence and Liberty are different towns. Is that right?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 44:23 Sure. So independence is the county seat for Jackson county and Liberty is the county seat for Clay. Now, it takes them a couple of days to get there and they leave on the second. In later years when Oliver Cowdery writes his autobiography, he says on November 3rd, a very important event happened that night or the previous night. And this is what he wrote. Now, again, he’s writing this, what? 17 plus years later. And I Parley’s good. I’m not sure how his, I think his facts are correct.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 44:59 But here’s what he wrote, remembered on what happened on November 3rd. Now this plays into Liberty Jail. Here’s what he wrote, “As what your role is in commenced our March on the morning of the 3rd of November, Joseph Smith spoke to me and the other prisoners in a low, but cheerful and confidential tone. Said he, quote, ‘Be of good cheer brethren.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 45:20 The word of the Lord came to me last night that our lives should be given us and that whatever we may suffer during this captivity, not one of our lives should be taken.'”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 45:29 Now, if that is correct, and I believe there’s, I believe he’s got it right. I don’t know how accurate, I mean, that’s a long reminiscence. But Joseph knows he’s going to get out of this. That gives him hope. Now, I think he’s thinking it’ll be a couple of weeks.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 45:47 Little did he know he will not be free again for 173 days. So his captivity began on November 1, October 30th. I guess we could go that date. And he’ll finally get over to Quincy on April 22nd. That’s 127 days. That’s just a little shy of six months. Now, it’ll all work out. And I think he does have hope that his time is not yet. So he’s just at least got some confidence that things will happen. But I really think he thought that we’ll get over this. We maybe a couple of weeks, whatever. But it’s going to be pretty drawn out.

John Bytheway: 46:32 The Lord’s timetable is sometimes so, a small moment. Right. I wanted to ask another question that about Han’s Mill. If I understand correctly, we don’t have property there. There’s no Memorial there. There’s very little there. Is that right?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 46:53 Well, actually John, just a couple of years ago, the church negotiated with the Community of Christ, the former… Well, they that’s their name that they like to go by now. And we now own Haun’s Mill, the site of Haun’s Mill. So we received that property. We received the far west. What we thought and think is possibly the far west cemetery and a lot of acreage in Jackson county and also the Joseph Smith home in Kirtland.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 47:25 So we now own that. And there’s some markers there, but certainly hopeful that at some future time, we’ll have some sort of, I would like to call it a Memorial. And talk about interest, if you can imagine how many people in the church today are descendants of those who either died or lived there, it’s a well-visited spot. And I’m so glad the church has. It was very gracious of the Community of Christ to provide that opportunity for us to purchase that property.

John Bytheway: 48:00 I remember on a couple of church history tours going to a town nearby and seeing a millstone in a park. I can’t remember the name of the town, but that was all that we could see at the time.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 48:14 That is Breckenridge, it’s immediately north. It’s actually in Davies county.

John Bytheway: 48:19 And it has a Subway sandwich. I remember that, too.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 48:24 And that millstone was from the Haun’s Mill, and it was actually photographed in what? 1907, 1908 by George Edward Anderson. It’s the famous photograph of the millstone. And the city of Breckenridge, you wouldn’t want to call it a city. It’s hardly even a community. It’s just a very small, little town, had that moved up there in the first part of the 20th century. And we have a nice marker there for that.

Hank Smith: 48:55 Alex, you said that Joseph Smith gets arrested on November 1st, but he’s not immediately put in Liberty.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 49:01 Right. So this is where for a whole month, he doesn’t even get there for another month. So while they’re down in independence, they’re waiting for John B. Clark to come. And he’s the one who does the final negotiations of peace, and so on, and so forth. So while they’re down there, okay, so they get down there on the fourth, it’s raining. It’s terrible weather, obviously, November the winter season is kicking in.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 49:31 And they are actually put in a small, vacant house and they’re there for a couple of days. And while they’re there, Joseph actually gets to write a letter to his wife, Emma, that’s the first letter we have. It’s a powerful letter. And Joseph’s very optimistic and they’re treating him nicely. The guards are quite courteous. Parley P. Pratt later wrote that we could even walk around the town. In fact, he talked about how he even went out to the location where the temple site was. And the thought hit him,

Dr. Alex Baugh: 50:09 “I could just get a ride away from here. No one’s guarding me right now.” And then he realized that if he did that, there would be severe repercussions for the other prisoners. So he decided to come back. They then moved them over to the Nolan house or Nolan Tavern. And we’ve put a little marker there. I don’t know if you remember that, Hank. And this is a site of Clinton’s drugstore, but this is where they’re put for a couple of more days.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 50:39 And then word comes from Clark that we’re going to have a hearing, but it will be not a military one, but a civil one. And that will take place in Richmond. So now they’re transported to Richmond and that’s on the eighth and 9th of November. And they get there on the ninth and they put them in a, these seven prisoners, in another vacant house in Richmond.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 51:05 It’s just to the north of the courthouse that’s being built, a new, brand new courthouse in Richmond. And this is where they decide to hold this hearing. In the meantime they go about and arrest 57 additional Latter-day Saint men. So by the time this hearing is conducted, 64 Latter-day Saint men are going to be tried in a, what we call a preliminary hearing in Richmond under the auspices and direction of Austin King, who’s the circuit court judge. And Austin King will later become the governor of Missouri.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 51:47 He’s no fly-by-night judge. He’s a pretty respected judge. Now, unfortunately, Judge King’s brother-in-law, Hugh Brazil, was killed by the Latter-day Saints in Jackson County during that skirmish. So he’s probably got a little bit of a chip on his shoulder there. But in the course of this hearing, which lasts from November 12th to the 29th.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 52:16 So what, 17 days? They have a number of witnesses come in, both on the Latter-day Saint side and also the Missourian side. And a number of these are Latter-day Saint men who have now become if we could call it, have disaffected. So they’ve turned state’s witness. Sampson Avard, W.W. Phelps, Burr Riggs, a number of men who said, “We’ll tell you what happened in what was happening in Caldwell county and other places.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 52:53 So it’s a hearing that is, again, not too, it’s not the final hearing. It’s a preliminary hearing to see if there’s evidence that there was some sort of missteps by the Latter Day Saints.

Hank Smith: 53:09 Crime committed.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 53:10 Crime committed. And after those, that hearing, Judge King, and by the way, guess who defended the Latter-day Saints?

Hank Smith: 53:19 Alexander Doniphan.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 53:21 Doniphan is just sitting back and seeing what they’re going to do here. He’s really quite an astute attorney. He’s not going to lay out his hand here. And Parley Pratt gets upset with him. He goes, “Why aren’t you going after these guys?” But this is a preliminary hearing. He doesn’t want to play his hand. He was really smart and just say, “Well, let’s see what they’re going to try to charge you all with. And then we can take it from there.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 53:47 So he’s a very, very good attorney. But Pratt in think he was doing all of his job that he was supposed to be doing. But the interesting thing is at the end of this, Judge king says, “I think there’s probable cause. Something, these men were involved in some things that were probably not right.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 54:07 Now, again, I think Joseph is entirely innocent, myself. But so Judge King says, “We are going to have their final hearing in March. But in the meantime, since they’re going to be charged with overt acts of treason, this is non-bailable.” So they have to be put in prison. They can’t post bail and say, “Well, we’ll come back when the hearing is held.”

Dr. Alex Baugh: 54:33 Yeah, this is a capital offense, you’d call it. And so they’re going to send them over to Liberty Jail. There’s two reasons they went to Liberty Jail. Number one, it was a better jail. They’re just trying to get a new jail made in Richmond.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 54:52 And so they said, “Well, let’s send them over there.” The other reason is Doniphan, according to an attorney in Liberty, Doniphan wanted them over there so he could meet with them and continue to help them. So Doniphan’s still trying to help us. And so they’re going to be transported over there. Now, there’s going to be six men who are ultimately sent to Liberty Jail to stand trial.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 55:18 And these are the six men that most people are familiar with when we talk about the jail, and they’re the First Presidency, Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, and Hyrum. And then we have Alexander McCray, Caleb Baldwin, and, oh, Lyman Wight.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 55:34 So there’s our six prisoners. So while these six that I’ve mentioned are going to be incarcerated over in Liberty, there are several men who are going to be… Most of the 64 prisoners were released, except those six. And then these men were kept in Richmond because there was not enough room in Liberty and they wanted to have the hearing over there in Richmond.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 55:59 And these were Parley Pratt. He was in the Battle of Crooked River where that one person was killed, Moses Roland, Norman Shear, Darwin Chase, Lumen Gibbs, and Morris Phelps. So these men were put in jail or put into custody in Richmond to await a hearing.

Hank Smith: 56:17 So there’s two groups.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 56:19 Two groups. And they later added King Follett. Now, I’ll just ahead and just indicate to you that a couple of those were finally released, but then four of them got sent down to Columbia. So several of these prisoners who are in Richmond are eventually going to have their hearing change to Columbia Boone county. Now that’s the same place Joseph Smith is supposed to have his final hearing with the Liberty prisoners.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 56:48 But they’re down there. And that story is a wonderful story because they’re down there and these Latter-day Saint prisoners, Parley P. Pratt being the most prominent, end up having a wonderful escape. It’s a marvelous story. It’s just downright exciting. It could be a movie. But they make their escape on Independence day. They thought what a good day to get our independence, but on Independence Day. And unfortunately, one of their number did not make it.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 57:19 And well, King Follett, actually was recaptured. And he’s the last one to really be released. They’re going to release him as well. But so there’s two stories. But in our story, of course, it’s the Liberty Jail group.

Hank Smith: 57:35 Yeah. Alex, and I want to get your take on this that here you’ve got these Latter-day Saint prisoners who are going to go up for trial, and yet everyone knows there was another side to this. Where’s all the mobsters? And who’s going to go up for trial on that side?

Dr. Alex Baugh: 57:55 I’m so glad you made that point. There is no legal action taken against any Missouri member who did anything against the Latter-day Saints, not a thing. And that plays into the story because I think the Missouri authorities realized if we’re going to go after the Latter-day Saints, we have to go after those who perpetrated actions and crimes against the Latter-day Saints, which they do not do.

Dr. Alex Baugh: 58:29 And ultimately, that will be one of the reasons I’m absolutely convinced that they have to let Joseph Smith go. They just have to. If you’re going to prosecute Latter-day Saints, you also have to prosecute those who committed acts against them. So that plays into the final chapter of everything, which I hope we can talk about here in just a few minutes.

John Bytheway: 58:57 Please join us for Part II of this podcast.