Hank Smith: 00:01 Welcome to followHIM, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come, Follow Me study. I’m Hank Smith.

John Bytheway: 00:09 And I’m John Bytheway.

Hank Smith: 00:11 We love to learn.

John Bytheway: 00:11 We love to laugh.

Hank Smith: 00:13 We want to learn and laugh with you.

John Bytheway: 00:15 As together, we followHIM

Hank Smith: 00:20 Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of followHim. I’m your host, Hank Smith, and I am here with my cheerful cohost, John Bytheway. Hello, John.

John Bytheway: 00:32 Hi. I will do as you say, I’ll be cheerful.

Hank Smith: 00:35 Well, Joseph Smith said he had a native cheery temperament, and I think I would-

John Bytheway: 00:40 I love that description.

Hank Smith: 00:42 I would say that you have the same. I would say that you have a native cheery temperament.

John Bytheway: 00:48 I would say the same about you.

Hank Smith: 01:00 If you want to watch the podcast, you can on YouTube, just click over to YouTube and you can find us there. Show notes, followhim.co, followhim.co. And of course we’d love for you to rate and review the podcast, that helps us out quite a bit. John, we have another incredible mind with us today. Why don’t you tell us who our guest is?

John Bytheway: 01:24 Yes, I will, thanks Hank. I’m excited to introduce Sherilyn Farnes, and I have seen her on videos, I think it was the Kirtland: America’s Holy Land. And I don’t remember how many years ago it’s made, it’s fairly recent, maybe like 2017 or something, but it’s really well done and it’s kind of a docu-drama mixture of scholars talking, like Sherilyn, with reenactments, and we really enjoyed it. It’s about an hour long, I think. Anyway, so I’m excited to meet Sherilyn, let me introduce her. Sherilyn Farnes has studied, published, and presented in women’s and early American religious history. Much of her research has focused on the Edward and Lydia Partridge family, beginning with her master’s thesis, which focused on Edward Partridge and memory.

John Bytheway: 02:12 She has subsequently published and presented about various members of the Edward and Lydia Partridge family, in addition to presentations on early Church history at the Mormon History Association. She’s also presented in various venues on the history of women in cartography, Latvian Church history, and maps of 17th century Jesuit cartographer Eusebio Francisco Kino; gosh, I hope I said that right; in New Spain. She earned her first two degrees from BYU in history, has since taught in both the English and Church History and Doctrine Department at BYU. Following time working with the Joseph Smith Papers Project, she elected to pursue her PhD in history at Texas Christian University with a focus on early 19th century Western Missouri. And so, welcome, Sherilyn, thank you so much for being with us, and tell us your progress in your PhD. I don’t know how old this bio is.

Sherilyn Farnes: 03:10 It’s a few years old, but basically the same. So yes, I hope to graduate next year, so in 2022.

Hank Smith: 03:19 Oh, wonderful. Let’s jump right in to our lesson this week, Sherilyn. We are looking at sections 98, 99, 100, and 101. And I remember you saying before we hit the record button that you’re excited for this because we get to talk about the Partridges. We get to talk about Edward and Lydia, who are two of my favorite people, and these were two people that I’d hoped as we did this podcast over the course of the year that we would highlight them, because I think more members of the Church should know who they are and the incredible sacrifices they’ve made. I’ve stood at Edward Partridge’s grave in Nauvoo many, many times, the beautiful headstone place there, and I just am in awe of all that he did and his wife. So why don’t you take us back and give us the background you think we need in order to get into section 98?

Sherilyn Farnes: 04:16 Sure thing. So, I have to share a quick story first though, you mentioned the Kirtland video, John, and I watched it with my brother’s family, he has young children in elementary school. And after we finished watching, so it’s interspersed historians speaking and then reenactments of the events, my little niece turned to me and I said, “Did you like it?” And she goes, “Yeah, but I like the part that was like a movie, not when the people were talking.” And I thought, “Okay, thanks. So you didn’t like the part that I was talking?” And then she corrected herself, she’s like, “I mean, I liked the part when you were talking, but not the other people.” I thought, “Thanks, thanks [Julie 00:04:48].”

Sherilyn Farnes: 04:52 So I’m excited because we have kind of bookend with our revelations dealing with potentially the Saints in Zion. We have the Saints that have moved to Jackson County starting in the summer of 1831, the missionaries to the Lamanites get there in the beginning of 1831, and then members of the Church start moving there in 1831, including Edward Partridge, who I’ve already talked about, is commanded to travel there. And I just have to mention his wife, Lydia, what a sacrifice to pack up all those girls and to move across the country. I will touch later on, if we get to it, a letter that Partridge writes in August of 1833 where he says, “When I left Paynesville, I didn’t say goodbye to people. I wasn’t really intending to move away permanently, but I have.”

Sherilyn Farnes: 05:36 And so Saints are there and the violence starts escalating within a year or so. By the summer of 1832, the residents of Jackson County are threatened by the Saints moving in, threatened by their increasing numbers, threatened by their adherence to a prophet and their willingness to obey his demands. And so in July of 1833, we have violence that’s escalated. And actually 188 years ago today, it’s July 20th of 1833, that the mob has gathered. They’d previously sent out a warning and said, “We need to resolve this Mormon problem.” And so they’ve gathered at the courthouse. We should note, Joseph Smith receives this revelation on August 6th, and so he doesn’t know about these events when he receives the revelation. And I love the Joseph Smith papers because they highlight that this revelation, D&C 98, could be addressed to the Saints in Zion, it could be addressed to the Saints in Kirtland, it could be applicable to both of them.

Sherilyn Farnes: 06:42 I want to just give a few quotes that set the stage. When Joseph Smith dictates the revelation, the presidency copies this revelation into a letter to the Saints in Zion, and just says, quote, “Here follows another revelation received today.” So on July 15th, just a few days after Oliver Cowdery has written a letter, this group in Jackson County… So to set the stage, we’re on the very, very western edge of Missouri. On the other side of the western border of Missouri is what’s called unorganized territory, later becomes Indian territory. And so we’re on the very western edge, and there’s a lot of background, a lot of history with the Saints coming from Ohio and feeling frustrated and feeling kind of superior to the people who live in western Missouri at this time period. And I believe a lot of that’s been addressed, so we won’t go back over that.

Sherilyn Farnes: 07:36 But this group of people in Jackson County issue a manifesto declaring their intent to quote, “Rid our society of the members of the Church.” And they say, quote, “Peaceably if we can, forcibly if we must.” Says some Jackson County residents have long been trying to get rid of the Saints, but the revelation itself never specifically addresses Jackson County or the specific circumstances. However, Joseph Smith obviously could have received revelation that would be applicable even before he knew the particulars of what was going on in Jackson County. It’s specifically addressed to the presidency of the high priesthood, which is in Kirtland itself. And the circumstances in Ohio are not that great either. We have opposition that’s been intensifying. We have a man named Doctor Philastus Hurlbut, which I believe you mentioned him on your podcast, his given name is doctor. That’s not a title. And that’s what I should have done before I got my PhD, should have just named myself Doctor, then I wouldn’t have to earn that title.

Sherilyn Farnes: 08:36 So in late June 1833, this Bishop’s court excommunicates Doctor Philastus Hurlbut, and then he briefly comes back to the Church and then he’s excommunicated again. And so after he gets excommunicated the second time, Joseph Smith writes that he goes around and he quote, “Sought the destruction of the Saints in this place, and more particularly myself and my family.” Joseph Smith writes a letter to Edward Partridge a few weeks after this revelation saying that the Saints in Kirtland suffered quote, “Great persecution on account of Hurlbut,” who lied, quote, “in a wonderful manner, and the people are running after him and giving him money to break down Mormonism, which much endangers our lives.”

Sherilyn Farnes: 09:15 And it’s interesting because we look back and we often talk about the Saints in Missouri and their struggles, because that’s so much a part of our memory. And in some ways I think we jump over the tension, the fear that’s going on in Kirtland at that point in time, so that’s something to kind of keep in mind. Joseph Smith says at this time period, “We are no safer here in Kirtland than you are in Zion. The cloud is gathering around us with great fury, and all Pharaoh’s host, or in other words, all Hell and the combined powers of Earth, are marshaling their forces to overthrow us.” So that’s some background of what Joseph Smith is feeling. Interestingly, though this revelation is, we find it really applicable to the Saints in Zion, not very many Church members mentioned it in their writings. So we don’t know if they didn’t see it as applicable to themselves, if they just didn’t mention it and record it in the reminiscences.

John Bytheway: 10:08 Thank you for that background. Really glad you mentioned things weren’t much better in Kirtland. In the synopsis, it says, “In July 1833, a mob destroyed Church property, tarred and feathered two Church members.” Can you give us some more background on exactly who those two men were and what happened to the Church property, which I believe was the press?

Sherilyn Farnes: 10:34 And so this mob gets together and they appoint a committee of about 13 men to talk with some leaders of the Church. And they interview some of the principal members of the Church, about six of them, and they say, “We want you to leave the county, and you need to agree to leave the county right now.” And the Church leaders of course want to consult with Joseph Smith and, “What should we do?” They say, “Can you give us a few months?” They say no, the Church leaders say, “Can you give us 10 days to at least deliberate? We’ve spent over a million man hours investing in farms and buildings.” And the mob says, “No, you have 15 minutes, decide.” And they refuse to make an agreement, and as one of the mob members walks out of the room he says to Edward Partridge, “The work of destruction will commence immediately.”

Sherilyn Farnes: 11:16 So they go down the street to the printing press. Even if W. W. Phelps knew what they were going to do, he probably wouldn’t have been able to get there in time to warn his wife. His wife, Sally Phelps, is actually home with her children. One of the children is sick. And she hears a pounding and the door’s broken down. These armed men rush in, they thrust her and her children out into the street, and they go upstairs and start throwing the type out the window and pages of the Book of Commandments. This is where we get that story of Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner and her sister Caroline saving the pages of the Book of Commandments, potentially what Caroline thought at the peril of their own lives. But Mary knew that those revelations were true and she wanted to save them. She had an experienced speaking in tongues and she’d felt the Spirit that confirmed those were true, and so she wanted to save those. And so they destroy the home.

Sherilyn Farnes: 12:03 And I think one thing it’s important to remember, we often talk about the persecution of the Saints and then we say, “And then this happened, and life got better,” that while they probably didn’t have the name of post-traumatic stress disorder, right? What does it do to you if you’re sitting peaceably at home and someone barges in the door? How many weeks, how many months does it take to get over sitting in your home and wondering, “Is someone going to come in and burst into my home and throw me into the street again?” These are long-term effects that they have on the Saints. So they go, they take Charles Allen, they take Edward Partridge, and they tar and feather them.

Sherilyn Farnes: 12:38 And actually I’d love to read to you a few of Partridge’s words, because he writes about it later, his experience. He says, “I was taken from my house by the mob.” His house was about half a mile west of the center of Independence. He’s at home, two of his little girls are actually down by the stream. They turn around, they see 50 armed men coming, surrounding their home. And so they just wait paralyzed by the spring where they’re getting water, not wanting to go home. Three men go inside the house. Edward’s wife Lydia has just given birth to Edward Partridge, Jr. They come, Edward Partridge agrees to go with them, I think sensing the futility to resist, perhaps an attempt to protect his family. He says, “So I was taken from my house by the mob, who escorted me half a mile to the courthouse in the public square in Independence.” And again, I picture Lydia, she’s half a mile away. Did she hear the crowd roaring and wonder, ” What are they doing to my husband?”

Sherilyn Farnes: 13:32 Partridge continues, he says, “I was surrounded by hundreds of the mob. I was stripped of my hat, coat, and vest.” Another man had tried to take more of his clothes off. Partridge said, “I strongly protested against being stripped naked in the street.” And so someone more humane, he says, interfered and said, “Okay, let him keep his shirt on, keep his pants on.” He’s daubed with tar from head to foot, and then feathers are put on him. “And all this because I would not agree to leave the county and my home where I had lived two years.” He says, “Before tarring and feathering me, I was permitted to speak. I told them the Saints had to suffer persecution in all ages of the world; that I had done nothing which ought to offend anyone; that if they abused me, they would abuse an innocent person; that I was willing to suffer for the sake of Christ; but to leave the country, I was not then willing to consent to it.” And by country there, meaning not leave the United States, but leave the countryside that he was living in.

Sherilyn Farnes: 14:20 “And by this time, the multitude made so much noise that I could not be heard. Some were cursing and swearing, saying, ‘Call upon your Jesus,’ others were equally noisy in trying to still the rest, that they might be unable to hear what I was saying.” And this part I think is really interesting. Partridge writes later; again, this reminiscence is later on; but he says, “Until after I had spoken, I knew not what they intended to do with me, whether to kill me, to whip me, or what else I knew not. I bore my abuse with so much resignation and meekness that it appeared to astound the multitude, who permitted me to retire in silence, many looking very solemn, their sympathies having been touched as I thought. And as to myself, I was so filled with the Spirit and love of God that I had no hatred towards my persecutors or anyone else.” Which I think it’s pretty impressive.

Sherilyn Farnes: 15:03 Or anyone else, which I think it’s pretty impressive. And then to just give a quick view of what happens next, [Partridge 00:15:09] has a man come and talk to him later that day. And this is one of my favorite quotes from Edward Partridge, because after they tar and feather him, they permit them to go home. And his family helps scrape the tar and feathers off of him. Partridge says, “My life was threatened by one of the headman of the mob saying that if he lived till next Tuesday night, I should die. That was the day the mob had set for their next meeting.” So July 23rd, he’s talking about. Partridge says, “Tuesday came and while I waited for the mob to come and take me, I had many disagreeable sensations running through my mind,” which I think is a little bit of an understatement that they might be coming to attack me, but many disagreeable sensations.

Sherilyn Farnes: 15:49 That’s a little bit of the background. So that’s what’s going on. The saints reconvene. The leaders of the church agree to leave the county to prevent further bloodshed. And then we can pull in some things as we go further on, but six men actually offered their lives, Edward Partridge among them and say, “If you will take us, you can take us and you can kill us if you promise you will let all the saints alone and let them live here.” Kind of makes verse 13 a little more poignant to me in DNC 98 when it says, “Who, so layeth down his life in my cause, for my namesake shall find it again, even life eternal. Therefore be not afraid of your enemies.” When you know that background, that there have been a handful of men who said, literally, not just in the New Testament sense, whoever layeth down his life for my cause shall find it. But the sense of literally, I will give up my life, if you will promise to protect these several hundred saints here.

John Bytheway: 16:41 Wow. And as you said before, this revelation is coming to Joseph Smith without a knowledge of what has happened to Edward Partridge and Charles Allen and the printing press, right?

Hank Smith: 16:54 Yeah. There’s no way they could have, between June and August. Yeah. I wish I was more Edward Partridge-like, because man, if my neighbor came over and said, “You got to decide if you’re going to move in 15 minutes because I don’t like you,” I wouldn’t be thinking of how I could be more Christ-like, but it’s impressive. He just took it. He said it was better. It was better because I think it lost its fun because he didn’t fight back. He just sat there and took it. And he says, yeah, they kind of dispersed, thinking, “Oh, that wasn’t…”

John Bytheway: 17:40 What was the phrase he used too, Sherilyn? I bore my indignities with…

Sherilyn Farnes: 17:45 He says, “I bore my abuse with so much resignation and meekness that it appeared to astound the multitude, many looking very solemn, their sympathies having been touched as I thought.” And then he talks about being filled with the spirit and the love of God and having no hatred towards any of these men, which Hank, I love that you mentioned your neighbor. Sometimes we’re like, “Oh, here’s these unknown men coming to attack.”

Sherilyn Farnes: 18:05 “No,” Partridge writes a list, and all the saints could write lists of, “No, I know these men, I sold food to them or they bought a wagon of me. It’s not a stranger.” And I think that is infinitely more scary in some ways to feel that your neighbors are coming against you, than some strangers you don’t know.

Hank Smith: 18:22 I remember hearing Alex [Baugh 00:18:23] talk about this at one point. And he quotes John McCoy who writes a reminiscence of this. And he basically says, “No two classes of people were ever more opposite, more unfit to live together than these two people.” And he’s a Missourian who later just says they were just the exact opposite people. And as much as you can say the latter day saints, maybe I think we mentioned this on other podcasts, Sherilyn, that they probably said things they probably shouldn’t say. They probably said, “Oh, this whole country is going to be ours. This whole county is going to be ours. It’s the Lord’s.” That does not… The response of, “Get out or we’ll kill you, hurt you, destroy your house.” It does not warrant… What the saints had done does not warrant that type of response from anyone.

Hank Smith: 19:24 Sherilyn, do you think they agree to just… I mean, what else are you going to do? They’ll destroy everything if you don’t agree.

Sherilyn Farnes: 19:33 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 19:33 So they’re not going to get to ask Joseph. They’re not going to get to ask Joseph about this. In fact, I think Joseph is going to write letters saying, “Don’t. You don’t have to leave. It’s illegal.” And they’re going, “Well, as much as we know that, that doesn’t kind of help us in that.” Isn’t that the case, that they have to agree?

Sherilyn Farnes: 19:53 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 19:54 And they’re leaving behind how much property? I think it’s somewhere around 2000 acres.

Sherilyn Farnes: 20:02 So Edward Partridge, after being tarred and feathered in July, 1833, he writes a letter about a month later to his fellow citizens of Painesville, Ohio, where he’d just had moved from. And I just wanted to read a few lines from that because I think it highlights kind of Partridge’s willingness to commit to the cause. He says, “When I left Painesville, I told people I was coming back and bade none a farewell, but for a short time. Consequently, I feel a great desire to return once more and bid your connections and my friends and acquaintances an eternal farewell, unless they should be willing to forsake all for the sake of Christ and be gathered with the saints of the most high God.” And he goes on for pages using scriptural examples to try and convince his fellow residents in Painesville to join the church. And he talks about light bursting forth.

Sherilyn Farnes: 20:47 I love this line. He says, “Since the days of Luther and Zwingli, the reformers’ light has been bursting forth in the religious world.” And then he says, “And my dear friends, need I say more to convince you of the truth and reality of this work. I feel willing to spend and be spent in the cause of my blessed master.” I just love that line, “I feel willing to spend and be spent in the cause of my blessed master.” In another line to his family I believe this is an 1834 letter, he talks about, “Since I last saw you I’ve passed through some trying times.” Just very, very understated. And in fact, earlier in this letter, he says, “I want you to realize these things. Think what it is to give up all for Christ. All the sacrifices that I have made I count as not when compared with the hope that I have of one day being enabled to exclaim with Paul, I have fought a good fight. I have finished my course. I have kept the faith.”

Hank Smith: 21:38 Edward Partridge. Edward Partridge, man.

Sherilyn Farnes: 21:42 I think he’s pretty impressive.

Hank Smith: 21:43 Yeah, he is the epitome… I just feel like Edward Partridge and Lydia are kind of the epitome of latter day saints of their day, kind of unknown. I think some people will know who the Partridges are, but unless you’ve studied church history in depth, you might not really, except for their names come up in the doctrine covenants, you might not know who they are. And I think you’re giving us just a kind of a picture of these people. And it seems like so many latter day saints of that day feel that same way. I will sacrifice. I will move forward. I am willing to do this.

Hank Smith: 22:18 Because the life he gave up compared to the life he got in Jackson County for at least those two years, I don’t think there could be a more stark difference. He was very affluent. He was doing very well in Painesville, had a lot of friends, and comes to Missouri where it’s almost the exact opposite, lots of stress, lots of difficulty, and his neighbors don’t like him. Oh, Edward Partridge. I’m not going to have any more children, John, so hopefully I’ll have a grandchild, and they’ll, if I can convince them, will name them, Edward.

John Bytheway: 22:54 Edward?

Hank Smith: 22:55 Yeah, Edward Partridge Smith, Edward Partridge, by the way, that’d be a good name.

John Bytheway: 23:03 We’ve run out of room in the Sequoia, so we’re not adding any more either. But refresh our memories, he was the one that was a hatter, right?

Sherilyn Farnes: 23:14 Yes. He had a very successful hat business and owned additional property as well besides what you think a hatter would own, had a very nice home. And sometimes I think we look back and we say, “Oh, people 200 years ago, it was no big deal to go across the plains. They were used to camping.” And his daughter writes about, we’ll we’ll get to in section 101, when they get kicked out permanently of Jackson county, she says, “That was the first night I had ever slept out of doors.” That’s not that they were just used to camping by the wayside, but it was something that was unusual. Yeah. But yeah, so very successful hatter.

Hank Smith: 23:46 His counselor in the bishopric, Isaac Morley, had done very much the same thing, sold his farm in Ohio, very big farm, donated the money to the church and gone to Missouri. So many like this that are just consecrated people.

Sherilyn Farnes: 24:02 Yeah. And not necessarily getting what even their property is worth. It’s one thing to say, “Oh, I’ll sell my house.” Like now, prices are high in Utah. You could sell your house, make a lot of money or at least get the value of your home. But then he gets a letter from an associate, I think it’s Harvey Redfield in the fall of 1831, and says, “Since we’re having some trouble here selling the property and making do,” his daughter, I think it’s Emily, that talks about him getting an old horse for one of the pieces of property. There’s just not a lot of things that were compensated in a temporal sense. But it kind of like in this 1833 letter, the August that I was reading from, August 31st, 1833, he says, “Since I have torn my affections from this world’s goods and from the vanities and toys of time and cents, and been willing to love and serve God with all my heart and be led by his holy spirit, my mind has been as it were, continually expanding, receiving the things of God until glories indescribable present themselves before me.” And so just that willingness to sacrifice.

Sherilyn Farnes: 25:02 And yeah, he was well-respected. There’s an election where he beats out a much older, what I would think a more respected man who’d won some previous elections in Painesville and Partridge beats him out. So you get a sense for this respect. One of his wife’s brother’s names his child, Edward Partridge [Closeby 00:25:19]. He married Lydia Closeby and her brother named, not just, “Oh, I’ll name him Edward,” but named the child actually Edward Partridge Closeby. So we were talking about Edward Partridge being willing to give up all. And I think one of the reasons he was, and I’m extrapolating a little bit here, but I would make an educated guess that he felt seen, that he felt the Lord saw him.

Sherilyn Farnes: 25:39 And that’s in 98 verses one to three, when it says, “Verily, I say unto my friends, fear not let your hearts be comforted, yea rejoice evermore and in everything give thanks, waiting patiently on the Lord for your prayers have entered into the ears of the Lord of the Sabbath and are recorded with the seal and Testament. The Lord hath sworn and decreed that they shall be granted. Therefore, he gives us this promise unto you with an immutable covenant that they shall be fulfilled. And all things wherewith you have been afflicted shall work together for your good and to my name’s glory, sayeth at the Lord.”

Sherilyn Farnes: 26:07 And it made me think of Sister Michelle Craig’s talk from October general conference, when she talks about seeing others, I believe it’s called eyes to see. She quotes columnist, David Brooks, who said, “Many of our society’s great problems flow from people not feeling seen and known. There is a core trait that we all have to get better at, and that is the trait of seeing each other deeply and being deeply seen.” And so I think part of what motivates any of us, the early saints or us today is when we know that the Lord loves us, that he sees us, that he’s aware of us, then we’re willing to sacrifice because we feel seen.

John Bytheway: 26:45 Thank you for mentioning that talk. That’s the one where she had a prompting, put down your phone when you’re in line. And then started talking to that man and found out it was his birthday. That was a great example of seeing people.

Hank Smith: 27:01 My dissertation for my doctorate degree was on high trust relationships. And if there is anything that creates trust in almost any relationship, it is listening to someone, really, truly just listening, not correcting, not fixing anyone, not offering solutions, just hearing them and letting them know that they’ve been both seen and heard. So I love that you brought that out Sherilyn, you are heard and seen, and you’re right. Once you know that, once you know that the Lord hears you and sees you, there’s a confidence that comes no matter what you go through. Wow. That was excellent. Really, really good. Let’s keep going. I have a feeling the entire section’s going to be this good with you, Sherilyn.

Sherilyn Farnes: 27:50 This is good because it’s the doctrine and covenants. That’s why it’s good.

Hank Smith: 27:53 Yeah. That’s why it’s good. Okay.

Sherilyn Farnes: 27:56 So in verse six, we have, “The Lord says, therefore, I, the Lord justify you and your brother and of my church in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land,” which immediately, I don’t know about you, but made me think of Elder Oak’s talk about the constitution and just our relationship with the constitution. And the saints do, they try and petition the judges. They try and petition the governor. They write lengthy petitions, and then they try and petition the president, or they don’t try. They do petition the president of the United States. And they’re not afforded the help that they want. In fact, in kind of an ironic turn of events, Partridge filed suit against the people that tarred and feathered him. And they say in their reply, their affidavits, so remember, it’s a mob of 200, 300 men and Edward Partridge and Charles Allen. They said, “Out of self-defense, we did of necessity beat the said Edward Partridge.” And so we’re trying to protect ourselves.

Hank Smith: 28:48 Out of self defense.

John Bytheway: 28:49 Yeah. One guy against a couple of hundred. Yes, it was self-defense.

Sherilyn Farnes: 28:55 Yeah. And maybe they’re speaking on broader terms, saying we worried that our society was going to disintegrate. We’re going to lose slaves, et cetera. Partridge wins the suit, but he’s awarded damages. He’s awarded court costs and damages of 1 cent. So kind of a slap in the face of like, “Sure. You know what? We’re going to let you win, but here you go. Here’s your 1 cent. That’s your damages.” A little bit insulting there.

Hank Smith: 29:16 I think, Sherilyn, this is going to go on for the next decade. These legal, Joseph Smith, even from [Nauvoo 00:29:24], is going to be seeking legal means of using his lawyers to try and get their land back in Jackson county.

Sherilyn Farnes: 29:35 Yeah, yeah, very, very extended court cases and battles. They try and go legally and yeah, it’s not working.

Hank Smith: 29:41 It seems like the Lord is saying, I want you to do that.

Sherilyn Farnes: 29:46 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 29:47 You can use the law. Yeah.

Sherilyn Farnes: 29:49 Do everything you can.

John Bytheway: 29:51 In fact, this, I believe, is the first time the constitution is mentioned. It’s not the last time, but it’s the first time in the doctrine and covenants, if I’m not mistaken. And I love something that…

John Bytheway: 30:02 … mistaken. And I love something that Richard Bushman said about this because I had never connected these two, but this is in Steve Harper’s book, Making Sense of the Doctrine of Covenants. He said, “As a result of section 98, the church befriended constitutional law and principles as allies in seeking redress for the violations of the Saints civil and religious liberties and property rights.” And then, “From then on,” wrote historian Richard Bushman, “Joseph was never far removed from politics. For a decade he sought protection from the government, usually without success. Until finally, frustrated by his inability to rally government to the Saints’ side, he ran for president.” And I love that he connected the idea because some people might think, “Who did he think he was just deciding to run for president?” But I like how Richard Bushman put it. “He had sought protection from the government. So frustrated with his inability to rally the government, he ran for president.” I thought it was interesting.

Sherilyn Farnes: 31:06 Yes. I remember. I read that. Making Sense is my all-time favorite DNC commentary because it sets the context, gives you the content and then says what happens as a result of it. And that struck me in a way it hadn’t before, when I was reading up on these sections. I’m glad you brought that, but

Hank Smith: 31:20 But Sherilyn, law doesn’t help you if the law is the mob, right? If the mob controls the law, I can see how frustrating that is going to be.

John Bytheway: 31:36 It sounds like judges too, who are willing to reward somebody 1 cent for lawlessness. A mob is by definition lawlessness. So the constitution was there. It was an ideal, but it didn’t seem to work very well in that instance.

Hank Smith: 31:52 Sherilyn, I think our listeners might be wondering, and we’ve talked about this in the past, so you don’t have to cover every issue, but what is it that the mob has against the Latter Day Saints? What is the problem that they see there they’re justified in taking what? How many? 1200 people and kicking them out of their county?

Sherilyn Farnes: 32:14 That’s a great question. That’s a million dollar question actually, because there is some disagreement. Traditionally we’ve said it’s religion. That they’re concerned if they blindly follow Joseph Smith, all of a sudden there’s so many Latter Day Saints that they’re going to vote as a block and they’re going to take over the local government. And so that… They’re northerners. And so primarily non slave holders. Missouri is a slave state. It pokes up from the south and it’s surrounded by non slave states.

Sherilyn Farnes: 32:42 But then one of the things I’m actually studying in my dissertation is the economic conflicts, right? There is interaction between the Saints and others, but there potentially is more concerned with economic differences than I think we previously have given credit for. We don’t talk a lot about the Santa Fe Trail when we talk about early Mormon history, but independence is the jumping off point for the Santa Fe Trail at this time period, which is a hugely profitable endeavor of row wagon and trains outfitting there and then traveling to Santa Fe and making a lot of money. As well as Fort Leavenworth is to the north, potentially supplying those areas.

Sherilyn Farnes: 33:17 So if you look at the mob’s demands though, they at least at one point say, “Any other differences aside, if you renounce your religion, you can stay here. We’re not going to harass you.” So religious differences is one of the things that people often say is the biggest concern.

Hank Smith: 33:39 Wow. And religion and money and politics. Just those three things.

Sherilyn Farnes: 33:50 Minor differences.

Hank Smith: 33:52 The Lord says in verse nine, “When the wicked rule, the people mourn.” I think that’s quite an understatement. These poor Latter Day Saints. There’s no redress for them because the law is controlled by those who want to get rid of them, who want them out.

Sherilyn Farnes: 34:12 And verse 10 makes sense in light of what I think you were saying a few minutes ago, Hank, where, “Honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently. And good men and wise men, you should observe to uphold,” because if you don’t have honest and wise men as your judges and your county leaders, when something happens that’s hurting the minority, you can’t protest because they’re not going to listen.

Hank Smith: 34:28 That verse 10, honest and wise men. It makes me think of Alexander Doniphan, the church’s lawyer. He seems, as I’ve read more about him and we probably don’t have time to talk about him here, but we will as we get closer to Liberty Jail, right? He seems to be an honest and wise man for the Saints to rely on. And they do rely on him quite a bit.

John Bytheway: 34:50 I’ve heard verse 10 called the Lords voter guide. This is how you know who to vote for. And of course, honest men and women and wise men and women and good men and women, it will work if. It’s like the John Adams statement that our constitution was made for a moral and religious people. And it’s wholly inadequate to the government of any other. And the leaders, it’ll work if there’s honest and good and wise people and the rest of us too.

Hank Smith: 35:23 John, we could probably throw in a Book of Mormon reference to what is it, King Mosiah? He gets rid of kings for one reason is what if you have a terrible king? What if you have a wicked king? You can do nothing.

John Bytheway: 35:35 He even set up checks and balances in some degree.

Hank Smith: 35:40 In the judges.

John Bytheway: 35:40 Wasn’t the judge super specific, but lower judges could out vote a higher judge and try to… It’s not possible that you’ll always have just men to be your king. So let’s do your business by the voice of the people. But if the people turn… If the majority choose wickedness, then you’re in trouble.

Hank Smith: 35:57 Yep. That’s exactly right. Let’s keep going Sherilyn. What else do you see in this section?

Sherilyn Farnes: 36:02 It actually ties in exactly with versus 14 through 16. 16, 17, where the Lord is talking. “Preview in all things, whether you will abide in my covenant.” Again in light of these prosecutions, both in Kirtland and Missouri a little bit background helps them make more sense. “Whether you’ll abide in my covenant, even unto death, that you may found worthy. If you’ll not abide, you’re not worthy of me.” But then 16 stopped me. I never noticed this one or thought about it in this way until I was reading it in the past month. “Therefore renounce war and proclaim peace and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers and the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the Jews unto the profits, the profits to the Jews.” And I thought, wait a second, we’re talking about, “Who so layeth down his life.”

Sherilyn Farnes: 36:40 Okay. “I’ll prove you in all things. If you want to abide in my covenant, renounce war and do family history.” And I was like, “Wait, where did that come from?” But then-

John Bytheway: 36:51 There’s a lot of Malakai in here.

Sherilyn Farnes: 36:51 But then if you step back and look at it, I love what Steve Harper, I think this comes from Steve Harper’s Making Sense. He said, “Renounce war and proclaim peace.” What is peace? It’s sealing families. It’s teaching people that you can live with your families together in love. And it’s uniting the whole human family in these sealing relationships. And so then that made a little more sense, but there’s definitely that overtone of… Right? Because they’re not doing temple work at this time. It’s just barely 1833, but it’s part of the mission of peace.

John Bytheway: 37:24 I love that phrase, “Abide in my covenant.” That’s a sermon in a sentence in verse 15. “Abide in my covenant,” reminds me of section 50, continue in God type of a thing. I like that phrase. It sounds like he’s telling him, “You’re my people, but you’re not perfect.” I mean, down in verse 20, they got got to forsake their sins, their wicked ways, the pride of their hearts, their covetousness. And Hank, have you heard this one before? “And all of their detestable things.”

Hank Smith: 37:57 That’s verse 20.

John Bytheway: 37:58 Verse 20.

Hank Smith: 37:58 “All their detestable things.” I love that.

John Bytheway: 38:01 And observe wisdom and eternal life. And so I’ve been thinking, what are detestable things? I got to ponder that one.

Hank Smith: 38:09 We’ve got mobs going after the Saints. And the Lord is saying, “I want to you to look at yourself. I want you to focus on your sins. You do not forsake your sins and your wicked ways, the pride of your hearts, your covetousness and detestable things.” Interesting how the Lord does that. I want Him to get mad at our enemies here. And He says, “Don’t be afraid of your enemies. Let’s work on you. Let’s talk about the sins you’re not forsaking.” And then He says this chastening is coming because of this. In fact, I think WW Phelps is going to write to Joseph that he said it was right that we should be driven from Jackson County because of the rebellious among us. But what are we the pure in heart supposed to do? Right? Joseph, what are we supposed to do? We’ve been driven over here. Where did they go? They went to Clay County. Is that right?

Sherilyn Farnes: 38:58 Most of them went north. So just across the Missouri River.

Hank Smith: 39:02 I think there’s a farmer there by the name of Michael Arthur who lets hundreds of Latter Day Saints live on his property. In fact, there’s a memorial to him out in the middle of nowhere. I don’t know. When I do a church history tour, they’re going, “Where are we going?” Right? This little dirt road. But then there’s this little patch of grass and this beautiful memorial. And on one side of the memorial is Michael Arthur who took these Latter Day Saints in. That’ll probably come up a little bit later.

Sherilyn Farnes: 39:33 Oh, that’s great. When they go to Clay County, right? They are overwhelming that population. And so it would make sense that they have someone that’s saying, “Come stay on our land,” that we’d want to memorialize that because every available structure is taken up. When Partridge crosses the river, he and John Coral share an old abandoned, stable. That’s where their families live for two years. And Emily, his daughter, Partridge’s daughter writes the ink would freeze in his pen is he sat close to the fire, that it was inhabited with rats and rattlesnakes and just not pleasant. So Clay County itself was a fine place, but they didn’t have the place to go when they left.

Hank Smith: 40:08 Right. So we frequently talk about Quincy taking us in, but that’s not for years later. This is the people of Clay County who took us in for a number of years. At least those, I think it was around 1,200 to 1,500 Latter Day Saints at the time. But I’m getting out of the revelation. Do you want to go back into it?

Sherilyn Farnes: 40:27 Sure. Verse 18 was one that ever since I learned the context of, “In my father’s house are many mansions,” and just the New Testament practice of probably one of you could explain it better of building on that you would have the home. And then the sun would, if I remember correctly, build on an additional room or an additional home onto the father’s home and then you would just build out. And so this concept of a connected family, intergenerational family living together, and the Lord saying, “I’ve prepared a place for you. Where My father, I am, there you shall be also.” It’s a comforting again. “Hey you, the Lord… Knowing they’re about to be forced from their homes. Just that reminder, you always have a home in me. You have a home in Christ and your physical home may leave, but you have a home in Christ.

John Bytheway: 41:11 That seems to be the Lord’s approach a lot is an eternal perspective because their trials may, for some, be worse since they’ve joined the church, but there’s eternal perspective promises of, “I’m watching you. I’ve heard your prayers. And in fact, I have many mansions prepared for you. So abide in my covenant.” And a change in perspective, more trials, but a change in perspective maybe as a result of joining the church, perhaps.

Hank Smith: 41:46 It seems to me that if someone listening is going through really hard things, especially as a result of someone else’s choices, verses one through 18 could be a blessing to that person, right? If someone has used their agency and made your life very difficult, you could read verses one through 18 and it would apply to you. And I imagine there’s many people listening who need this. It’s okay to do the legal thing, right? It’s okay if you need to pursue some legality, that’s okay. Focus on repenting of your own sins. This is just, don’t be afraid of your enemies. Keep your covenants. I can see why you said Edward Partridge feels seen and heard. Now Sherilyn, it seems like verse 19 a transition point because the Lord is going to talk specifically about Kirtland.

Sherilyn Farnes: 42:47 So it seems that way. I agree with you. That’s the tone of it. I’m not well-pleased with many who are in the church at Kirtland and then talks about sins and wicked ways, the detestable things that you mentioned. And then I think it’s interesting that the Lord then goes through and says, “If you observe,” this is 22, “to do whatsoever I command you, I the Lord will turn away all wrath and indignation from you and the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.” And going on in 23, continuing on for that whole next column for those in the paper scriptures, the next several verses. But He talks about those when they come against you, you bear it patiently revile not against them, neither seek revenge. You’re going to be rewarded. And then if your enemy comes against you in verse 25, the second time, and you don’t revile, you bear it patiently, your reward is 100 fold.

Sherilyn Farnes: 43:31 Again, he shall smite you the third time, you bear it patiently. Your rewards will be doubled unto you fourfold. And so this the Lord going through and just talking about how do we interact with those that treat us poorly, right? That can be a whole range of things. That can be a small slight to these massive offenses. And just, how do we respond and how do we fight back. And the Saints initially in Jackson County and in July of 1833, they felt that it was their duty to not fight back and to just peaceably say, “Okay. Hey, we’ll leave.” But then eventually they feel perhaps because of some of these revelations, they feel that, “Okay, we’re actually justified,” because you get to the point that it says 28, “The enemy shall not escape my vengeance. He be not brought into judgment before me that you warn him in my name, that he come no more upon you.”

Sherilyn Farnes: 44:18 So warn him not to come up on you, your family, your relatives, anyone. And then he says, “And then if he shall come upon you, I have delivered thine enemy into thine hands.” And so obviously I love that we get doctrine from all scripture, right? And so we have the Lord saying, “Forgive 70 times seven.” Here is this specific instruction for the Saints. This is for the people in Kirtland to specifically say, “Treat your enemies… And I’m not going to interpret what exactly it means, but I think it’s useful to look at it and say, “Okay, what principles are we being taught here? How does it fit with principles we’re taught elsewhere?” Maybe what parts are specific to the Saints at that time period of revenge, not revenge, but you’re able to fight back. You’ve warned them. You’ve asked them not multiple times.

Sherilyn Farnes: 45:03 You’re able to fight back. You’ve warned them, you’ve asked them not, multiple times. But I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on kind of the middle part or middle to end of ’98. How do each of you view it?

Hank Smith: 45:11 I really like this, because I think the Lord is saying, “I want you to bear these things patiently and revile not against them. That’s what I want.” Right? However, He says, “There’s a boundary on that where if you feel like your life is endangered, you are justified in defending yourselves.” And I think the Lord, He understands His children in saying, there comes a time when it’s okay. You think of in the Book of Mormon, right, John, the Captain Moroni going in defense of his family, our families, our God, our religion and there is a time for that.

John Bytheway: 45:58 Yeah. I like that in verse 33, “This is the law that I gave unto mine ancients that they should not go out unto battle against any nation, kindred, tongue or people save I the Lord commanded them.” And there’s like you said, Hank, I think of when Pahoran writes to Moroni, he says, “Whatsoever evil we can not resist with our words such as rebellions and dissensions.” And he’s saying diplomacy first. Talk first, “Then let us resist them with our swords.” That’s Alma 61:14. And also, the idea of going up to battle against a nation. Do you remember when Mormon says, “Okay, I utterly refuse to help them from this time forward.” Because they swore they would go up to them and attack them in kind of a more defensive posture, stay home and defend. But I love what Sherilyn said because you have to take all the scriptures in one and see what are we being taught here? What’s this law of war that he’s taught? What are the saints in specifically in Kirtland being taught right here? And I think the Lord isn’t saying we have to just take it again and again and again, but he’s telling us what to do here.

Hank Smith: 47:09 Yeah. And I think Sherilyn, I think you’re exactly right with this has got to apply to the saints, because there’s not very many people in 2021 who are going to experience by the hand of another person, what the Jackson County saints experienced. I don’t think the Lord is saying, if someone bothers you a few times, it’s you can go and hurt them. These are people who are threatening their lives, taking their possession, stealing from them and threatening their children’s lives.

Hank Smith: 47:44 But notice, I think in verse 40, he says, “If they repent, you will forgive 70 times seven.” So, that one hasn’t been taken away, that statement that the savior made to Peter, right? How often should I forgive my brother? 70 times seven. So number 491 is it, John. And you are on 230 something for me. I’m keeping track.

John Bytheway: 48:12 Oh, I thought it was at 231. So I will change that in my notes. Thank you.

Hank Smith: 48:18 But that one hasn’t been rescinded, that if your brother is repenting, it’s forgiveness, is the commandment. Back to section 64. ” I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you, it is required to forgive all men.” Section 64:10.

Sherilyn Farnes: 48:39 When it says thou shalt forgive him, I think it’s important to make a distinction between forgiveness and putting yourself back in a bad situation. Forgiveness is not allowing someone to continue to hurt you if you can remove yourself from an abusive situation or a dangerous situation. You can forgive and still make yourself safe. I think, just good to remember that. I

Hank Smith: 48:58 Often remind my students in my new Testament classes that the Lord has boundaries. There was a time he wouldn’t speak to Herod. There was a time that he told Peter when he was out of line, there’s the things he says to the religious hypocrites, the Lord definitely has boundaries. And He doesn’t put himself… I can’t see a time where, except for the atonement where the Savior says, “I’m going to go put you and me in a dangerous situation on purpose.”

John Bytheway: 49:27 Yeah. This is a very important point to make. We’re not telling people to just keep forgiving when they’re in an abusive situation.

Hank Smith: 49:35 Sherilyn, what you’ve been saying here reminds me of a talk from Elder Jeffrey R. Holland. This is the October 2018 General Conference. He says, “It is however important for some of you living in real anguish to note what he did not say. He did not say you are not allowed to feel true pain or real sorrow from the shattering experiences you’ve had at the hand of another. Nor did he say, in order to forgive fully, you have to reenter a toxic relationship or return to an abusive destructive circumstance. But not withstanding even the most terrible offenses that might come to us, we can rise above our pain only when we put our feet onto the path of true healing. That path is the forgiving one walked by Jesus of Nazareth who calls out to each of us, ‘Come follow me.'” What a great idea there. I think that’s a very important note you just made.

Sherilyn Farnes: 50:30 I love that quote. Thanks for sharing that.

Sherilyn Farnes: 50:33 I served my mission in the country of Latvia and it was during communist times that a lot of the young adults at the time, their parents grew up in a communist Latvia where religion was discouraged, frowned upon, persecuted. But it surprised me how many of them said, when we’d talk to them and say, “Do you believe in God?” And they’d say, “Well, I don’t know.” Or, “Maybe a little bit.” But then they would say, “But my grandma taught me to pray.” That that skipped a generation and the grandma said, “You know what? Okay, my child is not following what I would hope they would follow, but I’m going to try and preserve this faith in any way I can. And I’m going to teach this grandchild to pray whether or not they choose to pray is up to them, but at least I’m going to teach them to pray.”

Sherilyn Farnes: 51:10 And so I think there’s a lot of people like that who are kind of the unsung heroes, whether they’re the break withs or the transition figures or the intergenerational. And they say, “Hey, my next generation down, isn’t doing what I hope, but I can still reach out to other generations.”

Sherilyn Farnes: 51:25 Related to this verse. It’s kind of a different tone, so I hate to break that nice tone you have. But Emily Partridge, it’s interesting, when she writes her autobiography, she spends most of her autobiography that she’s writing in the 1880s, talking about the persecutions in Missouri. It’s her formative years. It was less than a 10th of her life, but a lot of her formative years. And so she writes in 1885 and she says, “Nearly all of the saints that were living then,” in the 1830s, “have passed away. And the few that are living now are those that were children then, and they’re becoming advanced in years and will not be very long and there will be none left living upon the earth to bear witness against the horrid deeds of the Missouri mob. But the record of their wicked deeds will remain and condemn them. They will yet have to foot the bill with interest.”

Sherilyn Farnes: 52:11 I think it’s just kind of interesting. She says she gets the sense, kind of an eternal perspective of maybe they died, but they will be held accountable one day for what they’ve done and that she could move forward in her life in other ways, but knowing that God would take care of them.

John Bytheway: 52:28 While you’re talking about that, tell us what the Partridge posterity did. So it sounds like they came west?

Sherilyn Farnes: 52:36 Yeah. They eventually move west. Partridge, Edward Partridge, dies in Navu and their daughter Harriet dies in Navu, but the rest of the Partridges move west. And three of them, marry Amasa Lyman, and Emily marries Brigham Young and has children with him. And the other three sisters, Lydia and Caroline and Eliza have children with Amasa Lyman.

Sherilyn Farnes: 52:59 There’s a great story. Eliza has a great diary and we have some writings from Emily as well, some journal entries. And they remain faithful to the end of their lives. Lydia, the mother, Eliza writes of her mother at one point, near the end of her life about her mother. She’s like, “Oh, she’s doing this. She’s mending and knitting and things and making herself useful in more ways than could be expected of a woman of her age.” But she’s got a great… I’m trying to think if I pulled it up, but Lydia has a beautiful testimony that she shares of why she perseveres. Her second husband also passes away and… Well, we better stop there. I could go on for a long time about the Partridges and what they do.

John Bytheway: 53:41 Right. No, that’s great. So any sons? Any sons from Edward Partridge?

Sherilyn Farnes: 53:44 Yep. So three weeks before he was tarred and feathered, his namesake Edward Partridge Jr. was born. He came west and married and has a posterity as well.

John Bytheway: 53:52 Wonderful.

Hank Smith: 53:53 John, I just can’t pass up this, but I feel like you’re doing quite a bit for a person of your age. I just really feel like you’re contributing quite a bit to the church and the world, because we know that you served your mission with Wilford Woodruff.

John Bytheway: 54:10 We were companions, yeah. Let me turn up my ear, please.

Sherilyn Farnes: 54:12 Hey, I’m the managing editor of the Wilford Woodruff papers, so I will be sure and pass along any references to you in his journals.

John Bytheway: 54:21 Can you say that again, Hank? I have to turn up my A here.

Hank Smith: 54:24 Oh, right when she said it, I thought, should I, should I?

Sherilyn Farnes: 54:30 So Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner gives a BYU devotional. And so you’re like she was in early church history and she has a BYU devotional. It’s kind of mind blowing that you think she does both of those.

Hank Smith: 54:38 You’re right. That is.

John Bytheway: 54:40 Wow.

Hank Smith: 54:41 That is incredible. It really is. I did not know that.

John Bytheway: 54:43 I didn’t either. That’s great.

Sherilyn Farnes: 54:44 I think it’s 1905 or something, so she’s pretty elderly.

John Bytheway: 54:48 Yeah. I was hiding out there with them manuscripts and…

Hank Smith: 54:51 Right. She was there with the pages in the corn.

John Bytheway: 54:54 Gosh. That’s great.

Hank Smith: 54:54 I remember loving that story as a primary student. Sherilyn, I just want to say one more time. The idea that you are heard and seen, coming from section 98, I imagine that when the saints in Jackson County got this letter, that this would have been just a strengthening document for them, that the Lord is, “I know you. I know what you’re going through. Keep your covenants. And there is going to be justice in my time.” In fact, if you read the biography of Harry Truman, the very first chapter is all about where he grew up, which is Jackson County, Missouri. And he talks about the Civil War. Now, I don’t think this is a wonderful thing. I don’t think that this is a see, you shouldn’t mess with us. But in that book, McCullough writes that there is no other county in the country that suffers more from the Civil War than Jackson County, Missouri. Everybody is driven from their homes.

Hank Smith: 56:02 I don’t want to say that was the Lord doing that, because I don’t know. But it does seem that when you do these things to these people there, that, what is it? What would we call it? Karma, right? What is it that, that Rocky Balboa’s coach said to him, John? “Your mouth is writing checks your body can’t cash.” And it just seems that there comes a due date on these things.

John Bytheway: 56:40 Please join us for part two of this podcast.