Hank Smith: 00:01 Welcome to followHIM, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come, Follow Me study. I’m Hank Smith.

John Bytheway: 00:09 And I’m John Bytheway.

Hank Smith: 00:10 We love to learn.

John Bytheway: 00:11 We love to laugh.

Hank Smith: 00:13 We want to learn and laugh with you.

John Bytheway: 00:15 As together we followHIM.

Hank Smith: 00:20 Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of followHIM. My name is Hank Smith and I am here with the solemn, John Bytheway. I mean that in all scriptural positive ways there, John, you’re solemn.

John Bytheway: 00:34 We love to laugh and we love to be solemn.

Hank Smith: 00:36 We love to laugh and learn, and we love to be solemn at times. John, we have another great week ahead of us on the Follow Him Podcast. We have a returning guest again, and we’re very blessed to have her with us. Who’s here?

John Bytheway: 00:54 Yeah. We’re very glad to have Susan Easton Black back with us again. And our listeners may remember, she’s a retired professor of Church History and Doctrine at BYU. She’s the author of many books about Joseph Smith and the early history of the Church. She has a PhD from BYU in education. She joined the faculty there in 1978 as the first female full-time professor in religious education at BYU. And she also received the Karl G. Maeser Distinguished Faculty Award in 2000, being the first woman to receive that award. She served as an associate dean of general education and honors, and her passion for LDS history began as a child hearing stories of early church history from her grandmother, who was born in Utah in 1872 to British immigrant parents. And my wife had her for her religion classes and just loved those classes. I think she had her for more than once. So, we’re glad to have you back for more than once too.

Susan Easton Bl…: 01:58 Thank you very much.

Hank Smith: 01:59 Susan, I’ll just have to say this. We don’t need to gush, because we gushed on our last episode a little bit, but I will say this, that I’ve had the privilege of walking the streets of Nauvoo with you, and it was almost … It was walking with a celebrity. I’ve never seen those missionaries, especially those senior couples, saying, “That’s her. That’s her. There she is. Mrs. Nauvoo,” right?

Susan Easton Bl…: 02:24 Thank you. That’s fun.

Hank Smith: 02:26 I would dare to say that you know more about Nauvoo than I think the Saints who lived there did. Right?

Susan Easton Bl…: 02:33 I don’t know about that, Hank, but thank you.

Hank Smith: 02:37 I think so. I think you’ve been there so many times in your mind and walked those streets, I just think that it’s your … We’ll call you Mrs. Nauvoo.

Susan Easton Bl…: 02:45 Well, thank you.

Hank Smith: 02:49 Let’s jump right in, John, to our lesson this week. We’re in a few sections of the Doctrine and Covenants, Sections 94, 95, 96, and 97. So Susan, you are our expert here. We’ll backup as far as you want us to go. It looks like we’re going to start in summer of 1833 with Reynolds Cahoon and Jared Carter. We’ll let you take it away.

Susan Easton Bl…: 03:15 Hey, thanks a lot. I appreciate this opportunity, and you’re right, Hank, we’re starting off pretty much late spring here in Kirtland, Ohio in 1833. As we start with section 94, it’s the very first time the Lord uses the word committee in a scripture in this dispensation.

Hank Smith: 03:39 Wow.

Susan Easton Bl…: 03:39 So any of us that have served on a committee one too many times, or whatever, we can always turn to Section 94 and say, “So that’s where it began.” I think it’s interesting as it starts with the committee, who’s put on the committee and what the purpose is for. I always liked that they only chose three people on a committee. Personally having served on many committees, the more opinions and the loudest voice seems to get control what’s going on. But in this particular committee, you’ve got Hyrum Smith, he’s aged 33 at the time of the revelation. You’ve got Reynolds Cahoon, he’s 43, and you’ve got Jared Carter. And you’d say their assignment, as you look at this committee, it’s all about building various houses that the Lord wants built. And so their assignment is there to raise funds, give oversight, and gather then building material.

Susan Easton Bl…: 04:46 And I think it’s interesting, you look at the three men and you can’t find a builder among them. You ever been called to an assignment or church assignment and you go, “I’m not really qualified.” You’d say, “Well, where did it begin?” And it probably begins here in Section 94. But Hyrum, he’s a farmer, Reynolds Cahoon, he’s a shoe maker, a leather guy, and you’d say Jared Carter, who was baptized by Hyrum, he’s a farmer, kind of businessman. And suddenly you get these three men are to raise funds, give oversight, and to gather material. And then if we were to look at what they were to give oversight to and gathering the material for, the first is to build a building for the presidency of the Church. And this building is to be right on what today we’d call like Temple Square in Kirtland. And then the second of course is to build a kind of print building.

Susan Easton Bl…: 05:54 But it’s interesting, both buildings are the same size and the first revelation about the temple, it’s always the same size. So if you’re wondering what size you should build your house, here it goes. It’s the numbers that go three times all the way through, 55 feet by 65 feet, and obviously two story house, what they call the lower court and a higher court. And in that presidency building, the initial plan was for the presidency to have a place to receive revelation and direct the ministry. And then the printing then is going to be for sacred scripture work and others. But what I think it’s interesting is that, which of the three areas did the men seem to fall down on? And giving oversight, you’d say good. And procuring materials, maybe struggling. And raising funds, definitely struggling, because there was a subscription. And with that, a decision is then made that, “We’ll only build one building, and we’ll combine the two.” And so maybe that’s the good of buildings.

Hank Smith: 07:15 Right. Multi-use, right?

Susan Easton Bl…: 07:18 Multi-use, yes. It’s the Lord meeting house, right?

John Bytheway: 07:21 The Multipurpose room, right.

Susan Easton Bl…: 07:22 Multipurpose room.

Hank Smith: 07:23 You know what’s interesting, Susan, is that the Lord has said, “We’re going to print from here.” When earlier he said, “We’re going to print from Jackson County, Missouri.” And maybe, I don’t know if the prophet knows quite yet that the printing in Jackson County, Missouri is about to, or has just come to an abrupt end.

Susan Easton Bl…: 07:43 Right. So the printing definitely ending in July of 1833. So here’s May. And I think it’s interesting, there’s going to be a place even that Evening and Morning Star newspaper will be now printed out of this print shop that they’re going to pull together.

Hank Smith: 08:02 Interesting.

Susan Easton Bl…: 08:02 So that new building we’re talking about, it will house the print shop, it will be a place for the first presidency, and also a place for the School of the Prophets. So it definitely, like John was saying, multi-use.

Hank Smith: 08:20 Yeah. I find it fascinating. There’s not a builder among them. One of my students pointed out to me once that Nephi doesn’t know how to build a boat, but he does know how to work with metal it seems. So he just gets started doing what he knows how to do, make tools, right? Like, “I don’t know how to build a boat, but I do know how to make tools, so I’ll get started there.” Maybe that’s with these guys as well. It’s, “Well, we don’t know how to build a temple, but we do know how to shovel. We do know how to cut down the weeds. So we’ll just get started.” Isn’t that what Hyrum did? He just went out and got started?

Susan Easton Bl…: 08:56 Right. He digs the first trench there for the temple. Well, okay, it might be of interest to your viewers as to what really is published in that printing office. So I can say newspapers. That Evening and Morning Star, notice it’s not the Morning and Evening Star, but we live on the Saturday, the morning of the coming of the Savior. So it’s always the Evening and Morning Star, the Latter-day Saint Messenger and Advocate, the Elders Journal, Northern Times, those are four newspapers that will come out of that office. But more important than that, you get scriptures. So out of that very office, here’s your Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Emma’s Hymnal. So it’s right there on Temple Square.

Hank Smith: 09:53 Right there by the Kirtland Temple. The printing office is no longer there, is that right?

Susan Easton Bl…: 10:00 Yes. So, kind of what happened was you’ve got this building committee consisting of three. And once the building is done, their responsibilities over the building end, in other words, they’re not responsible for the contents. And so it’s the Literary Firm that takes over the printing and actually ownership. And then it goes through multiple owners until you get William Marks in May of 1837. He’s our man that becomes that stake president in Nauvoo. And while he owns the building, the building is burned to the ground.

Hank Smith: 10:38 Okay. So that’s why it’s no longer there. That’s usually what happens.

John Bytheway: 10:42 Wow.

Susan Easton Bl…: 10:43 So the next time you’re leading a tour out there, Hank, you can stand almost anywhere and say, “It was here somewhere. Where did they put it?”

Hank Smith: 10:50 Yeah, it was around here. I bet Karl Anderson knows. I’ll just have to ask him.

Susan Easton Bl…: 10:54 Yeah, check with him.

Hank Smith: 10:56 Check with Karl. So anything else on this Section 94? The Lord’s just organizing a committee saying, “This is how big I want the lot to be.” He does mention a little bit about temple work, where he says in verse eight, “You shall not suffer any unclean thing to come into it. My glory shall be there. My presence shall be there.” So he’s kind of maybe doing a little foreshadowing of the blessings that are going to come?

Susan Easton Bl…: 11:23 Yes, I would think so. I think that the plan had been that the First Presidency would have a place, and it’s supposed to be a place of revelation and a place for directing the ministry of the Church, and pretty hard to have that when you’ve got unclean thoughts people coming in.

John Bytheway: 11:45 I’ve always wondered too, like when did the actual idea of a temple recommend begin? I mean, this sounds like the beginnings of that, “We have to protect that no unclean thing comes into the house.” Do we know when that idea and practice actually began?

Susan Easton Bl…: 12:02 Well, you get temple recommends don’t come into vogue until you come to Utah.

John Bytheway: 12:08 Interesting.

Susan Easton Bl…: 12:10 So it’s not a Joseph Smith time period.

Hank Smith: 12:13 But even way back in Section 20, the Lord did tell them, when they go from congregation to congregation, that they should have a letter.

John Bytheway: 12:20 A certificate, or … Yeah.

Hank Smith: 12:21 Right? Certificate?

Susan Easton Bl…: 12:22 Yeah, certificate.

Hank Smith: 12:22 Well, maybe you have some beginnings there.

Susan Easton Bl…: 12:25 It was in an out. So that could be–

Hank Smith: 12:28 Susan, I like sections like 94 because they’re practical. Right? Because sometimes we have to do the work here, the Lord can’t … It can’t always be inspiring and inspire. Every section we kind of want to be like Section 76 or section 93, that just blows us away. But Section 94 is, “We’ve got to take care of business.” Right? I kind of like that, that there is that part of the Church. I would think, I don’t know any of the apostles personally, but I would think that a lot of their work is the business of the Church, the size of the building, the committee, the … I bet there’s a lot of that. And there seems to be a lot of that and wards and stakes, right? A lot of the practical business of the work.

Susan Easton Bl…: 13:16 Right. And I think for the three men that were chosen, it’s interesting, they continue to be chosen for the building committee and eventually become known as the Kirtland Temple committee. It’s like they get a precursor, a test, “Can you do this?” And sure enough, they succeeded.

Hank Smith: 13:37 Yeah. I really like this. I don’t know, to me, I like the Lord saying, “All right. You three, we’ve got to do some work now. Enough being inspired, let’s actually put a shovel in the ground and do some work.”

Susan Easton Bl…: 13:53 Right. I like that.

Hank Smith: 13:54 Yeah. John, anything else on Section 94 before we move forward?

John Bytheway: 14:00 I got so used to seeing Zion and thinking Missouri. And so I like in verse one where the idea of, it says, “The city of the stake of Zion, here in the land of Kirtland.” So I have to remember, “He’s talking about Kirtland here, but it is a stake of Zion,” because I’ve been getting used to Zion meaning Missouri, do you know what I mean?

Hank Smith: 14:23 Yeah.

Susan Easton Bl…: 14:24 Right.

John Bytheway: 14:25 And here this is a stake of Zion that the broader idea of Zion in Kirtland. So I had to stop and go, “Oh yeah, this is talking about Kirtland right here. Not Jackson County.”

Hank Smith: 14:36 Well, Jackson County being the center place, then everything else is a stake in the tent. Right, Susan?

Susan Easton Bl…: 14:41 Right, stake in the tent, like Isaiah.

Hank Smith: 14:43 Yeah. Okay. This is 1833, they’re not going to finish this. This is going to be a long project, right? This is not-

Susan Easton Bl…: 14:54 Right. And in other words, for this one building, you’d say, “Why would they build one?” And bottom line, they don’t have enough money to do the two. In other words, they’re a subscription. And you’re going to see the Lord beginning to chasten them as you move on to Section 95, because, “And who’s not subscribing?” And it’s interesting, it’s you look first at the men who attended the School of the Prophets. So men that the Lord loved, the prophet loved, and loved the Church. But then the question is, are you willing to kick in for the latest building project? And suddenly you go, “Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I’ve had my heart in it, but am I … I can give my time.” And you get these three men, obviously by the time they’re in charge of the committee for the Kirtland Temple, they know what they’re doing. But the question is, are you willing to give your money too?

John Bytheway: 15:55 I was just going to say, I’m old enough to remember when they used to have the ward Building Fund drives. And it got all rolled into tithing at one point, but I remember the Bishop calling individual families and then saying, “Here’s your Building Fund Assessment,” and things like that. And there’s kind of a fun story that President Marion G. Romney tells about being asked for an amount that he thought was higher than it should be. And then he said, “I came across this verse that says, ‘If you give begrudgingly, it’s as if you didn’t give the gifts,'” so he went back to the Bishop and gave even more because he didn’t want to be on that side of it. But now that’s all rolled into tithing, as I understand. And the building, I just think it’s kind of an interesting development when that happened. I don’t know if you remember that, Hank, but I remember the ward building fund. I was just a kid, but I remember it.

Hank Smith: 16:48 Yeah. I think that was just a little bit before my time.

Susan Easton Bl…: 16:51 I’m trying to say, “For sure. I’m not old enough,” but yes, those were the good old days.

Hank Smith: 16:57 I must have just missed it by maybe a week or two. Well, Susan, you mentioned section 95 that the Lord is going to get after him a little bit. Let’s move forward. Tell us about section 95.

Susan Easton Bl…: 17:08 Well, obviously there’s been a delay procuring materials, getting things going, getting the subscription, the money to be able to build this. And the Lord is definitely chastening the saints, but I love that he loves them and he indicates, “Hey,” he wants a solemn assembly, he wants fascinating, and he wants the building. It’s like, “Let’s do it,” and the promise is, “If you keep the commandments, you’re going to have power to do this.” And I think I can remember, like John’s talking about getting that building assessment, and you wonder, “First offerings, tithing, building assessment, and here’s the family bills and everything else. Can I do this?” And I could testify to you youngsters that if you do make an effort to keep the commandments, the Lord really steps up and kind of gives you the ability to be able to meet those commitments.

Hank Smith: 18:11 Yeah. Let’s go back to verse one and talk about this, that you brought up, because I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had this conversation with my own children, which is, if I didn’t care about you, there wouldn’t be any consequences, right? I’d say, “Just go do whatever you want. I don’t care.” The idea is if you take away a privilege from a child, that, “Mom, Dad, you don’t love me.” Right? And the Lord’s saying, “Wait, wait, wait. I am going to chasten you for your sins because I love you, because I love you.” Have you always had those conversations as parents, because I sure have?

Susan Easton Bl…: 18:53 For sure. And I can’t always say they’re well-received, but nevertheless, the effort is there and the bottom line is the Lord in his case, he says he wants to reveal to them strange things. Obviously the endowment, he wants to give them a gift, but they need to build these houses to help make all that happen and to show their willingness to sacrifice.

Hank Smith: 19:23 “Whom I love, I also chasten.” Who is it that recently gave a message in general conference on divine discontent, right? That there are times where the Lord is maybe not upset with us, but he’s saying, “Look, I have things prepared for you, but you got to move. You got to do these things or I can’t give you these gifts. You have sinned a very grievous sin. You have not considered building this house.” So, I don’t know. I don’t know if any of your children are like mine, but oftentimes it takes me more than once to ask them to do something. John, probably not your kids. They’re probably doing it before you even ask.

John Bytheway: 20:01 Oh no, they just remind me of what I haven’t done and … Yeah. But I like this idea of if the Lord didn’t love them, he’d just walk away. I’ve heard someone say once that maybe the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. And he could have been indifferent, just said, “Forget you guys,” and walk away. But it says, “Because I love you, I chasten you.” And I love how it says, “With the chastisement, I prepare a way for their deliverance.” There’s an outcome in that. I’m preparing for you to be delivered. I have loved you. And those last five words, I have loved you, and we see evidence of that everywhere. So the chastisement is an evidence of love, and that’s, I guess, how we have to see it when get chastised too. And Hank’s kids have to see it that way, right?

Hank Smith: 20:50 Yeah. I know this is about the temple, but for me, I learned just a little parenting lesson there, that not only do I chasten you for your sins because I love you, but I also prepare a way for you to be successful. Right? I’m going to help you become successful in this thing that I’ve asked you to do, not just kind of … I think, as a parent, sometimes I say, “Well, you didn’t do what I asked. So you’re going to be in trouble. You’re going to lose privileges,” but I don’t take that next step of, “I’m going to stand by you and help you accomplish what I’ve asked you to do.” I think there’s a little parenting lesson there. I don’t know if the Lord intended that, but I picked up on that.

Susan Easton Bl…: 21:27 That’s good. That’s great.

John Bytheway: 21:28 I think Steven Harper, that we’ve had on the program, said before that Section 95 is really a revelation about God’s love, which I think is an interesting way to look at it before you read it. Then he is chastising them and scolding them, but it’s because he wants to give them so much more. That’s the desired outcome.

Susan Easton Bl…: 21:50 So what he’s going to give them in this case is build the temple and then you get that promise of the endowment. I think this building the temple, what we’re talking about is the Kirtland Temple, right? And we know that, well, just coming off conference, you’ve got President Russell M. Nelson, this last April Conference, announcing 20 new temples. I don’t know if you’ve got any of us going, “What?” But I think just sheer joy. Whereas, well, my favorite part is one of the early saints approaches Joseph and suggests that as long as we’re going to be doing this next one, in other words, we’ve already kicked it in now for the printing/presidency building. But as long as we’re doing the next one, he suggests that Joseph have this temple built in logs. And so the big question is, “Shall we brethren, build a house for our God of logs?”

Susan Easton Bl…: 23:00 And I just wanted to tell kind of the social strata going on at the time. When you moved to a new area out in this Western Reserve, the Ohios, right? You first arrive, you build a log cabin and you have a tar bucket next to it. And then you become socially more affluent. So you whitewash the inside and then you do a clapboard and brick. But when you’re really affluent, you splash it with color. In other words, you can splash your wealth, and suddenly what the man is suggesting is, “Well, let’s build a temple just of logs,” as if it’s one of the lesser places going to be built in the community. Okay. Do we all remember Joseph’s response? He goes-

Hank Smith: 23:51 I want to hear it. I kind of remember it, but I want to hear it from you.

Susan Easton Bl…: 23:53 Okay. All right. He goes, “Shall we brethren build a house for our God of logs?” He goes, “I have a better plan than that.” In other words, “I know there’s this committee going, but I’m telling you, I got a plan.” He goes, “I have a plan of the house of the Lord given by himself.” So when you look at the Kirtland Temple, it isn’t just where you’d say, “Well, we got an architect and we got the foundation and everything perfect.” But the plan for the Kirtland Temple is given by the Lord himself.

Susan Easton Bl…: 24:28 And then notice section 14. So you’ll notice in Doctrine and Covenants 95:14, that the Lord says that he’s going to show the manner of which you should build this to three of you. Can’t you see the committee is saying, “I bet we’re going to be it. We’re one, two, three. We’re Hyrum, we’re Reynolds, we’re Jared,” but it’s not those three that are going to see it. It’s going to be the First Presidency. And right away you put the temple goes out of a little bit different realm than the first building that was built.

John Bytheway: 25:13 And the first presidency is Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Frederick G. Williams?

Susan Easton Bl…: 25:19 That’s the First Presidency at the time.

John Bytheway: 25:21 Is that right?

Susan Easton Bl…: 25:21 Yes, but I think it’s interesting, like the other one, guess what size it is? It’s going to get you going around measuring your houses, right? It’s the same size, 55 by 65 feet. So I imagine your viewers are going to have tape measures running around saying, “Do we qualify? Do we qualify?” And then you’ll also notice that it’s going to have two floors. In this case, the lower floor is for sacrament, preaching, fascinating, prayer. Upper court for the School of the Apostles. And the word apostle means, “one who is sent.” So you get this idea, School of the Prophets, School of the Apostles, and in other words, it’s going to be a school for those that would be sent out on journeys, on missions. So you’ve got two courts, just like the others.

Hank Smith: 26:16 Okay. I remember the Lord saying this way back in section, what was it? Like 38, when you said, “I want you to go to Ohio because I’m going to endow you with power.” That’s
Section 38:32. And he still hasn’t forgotten that because he brings it back up in Section 95:8, “You’re going to build a house in which house I designed to endow those whom I have chosen with power from on high.” I love the Lord saying, “I haven’t forgotten what I told you earlier,” right? There’s a purpose. This is why we came to Ohio.

Susan Easton Bl…: 26:58 Right. I like that. I also like that you’ve got these three men, the Lord is going to show them the manner in which the temple is to be built. And Frederick G. Williams writes, he says, “Well, Joseph Smith received the word of the Lord for him to take his two counselors before the Lord.” And you’d say, “Well, where would this occur?” Don’t you think that would occur in the Offices of the Presidency? Right? You know? And so he said, “Well, they kneel down on their knees. They called on the Lord. And the building appeared within viewing distance.” It’s like viewing distance means a distance away, and Frederick G. Williams write, “I being the first to discover it.” You know how you look and you go, “Can you see this?”

Susan Easton Bl…: 27:54 And Frederick says, “I’m the first to discover it.” And then he said, “Then all of us,” meaning those three, “Viewed it together. After we’d taken a good look at the exterior, the building seemed to come right over us.” And in other words, “We see it in a distance, it’s closer and closer. Now we can look up.” And as a result you get the intricacies, the external/internal.

Hank Smith: 28:22 I’m guaranteeing, my son, if I explained this to him, he’d say, “Dad, that’s virtual reality. That’s a VR system. The Lord just put a VR system on their head and they were able to walk through it and around it.” That’s absolutely incredible. So when they’re building it, they can just ask, “Did it look like this? Is this what it looked like?” “Yeah. That is what it looked like.” And the building, Susan, has … And John you’ve mentioned this before, I can’t remember what episode we were talking, or even if it made it into the episode. But it doesn’t have one pulpit like we have in ours. It’s got a lot of pulpits, right?

John Bytheway: 29:05 Got like nine on each side or something.

Hank Smith: 29:07 Nine on each side. Right?

John Bytheway: 29:09 Yeah. It’s a very … Which kind of tells you someone else designed it, right? It’s not the conventional design that they’re used to.

Hank Smith: 29:18 Yeah. When I go in those old American churches, I see the pulpit up on the side of the … Not front and center, it’s up right on the side, in the front. Right?

John Bytheway: 29:28 Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Hank Smith: 29:29 But this one’s totally different. I’ve been inside the Kirtland Temple. It doesn’t look like any other building I’ve seen in American history. So you can tell. Yeah.

John Bytheway: 29:36 And then you have to get a handout, you have to get a handout to understand what all the letters in front of the pulpits mean.

Hank Smith: 29:43 Right. It’s hard to remember.

John Bytheway: 29:47 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 29:48 As the tour guide, you’re going, “I got to memorize this. I got to memorize this so–“

John Bytheway: 29:51 Yeah. Let’s see, Melchizedek Priesthood … Let’s see, priesthood, president, Melchizedek presidency, priesthood.

Hank Smith: 29:57 Yeah–teachers, teachers, yeah.

Susan Easton Bl…: 29:58 Yeah. Okay. What I like about this revelation is that we’ve talked about how you get a revelation, but then how quick do you move on it? And obviously in 94 there are delay, delay, “Are we going to build these two buildings? Now we’re going to build one.” But in this one, once it’s received, four days later, Joseph Smith takes some of the brethren right up to that temple site and they remove a fence and much foliage. In other words, this is not a sit back and wait, but it’s receiving a revelation and starting on it. In other words, you’re not going to get the same chastisement they had with the other building.

Hank Smith: 30:45 Now, Susan, I don’t want to wax too personal here, but I’ve known you for a while, you are a doer. You are a, “Let’s get this done. Let’s get moving. Let’s get this going.”

Susan Easton Bl…: 30:56 Pretty much.

Hank Smith: 30:56 Right? John and I, we’ve discussed this at length, John and I love to talk about the great things we would do if we had the time, right, John? We say, “You know what we ought to do, is this, this, and this.” And then we both go home and we watch The Andy Griffith Show. So in your mind, Susan, how does one come from a, “Wow, what great things we could do,” to a Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith type, “Well, let’s get started?” How did you become that way?

Susan Easton Bl…: 31:27 Well, I’ve always been, it doesn’t seem to matter whether I’m going backwards or forwards, but I must be doing something. And I know you can’t see with how we’re looking, but if you look behind me, you’d say, “Well, who authored those?” And I go, “Man, me.” And so wow, for me, one of the hardest things is sitting. So here I am sitting talking to you, but if you saw my hands, you’d say, “Well, okay, you’re wondering what time is it,” and I don’t know, I think it’s energy. I think it’s drive. I think it’s that.

Susan Easton Bl…: 32:11 And I’ve always had this thing, you know how you wonder, I know we don’t do checkoff lists anymore. I love the checkoff list time. And so with that, you wonder personally, “Am I doing enough? Have I done enough? Can it really be said, ‘Well done now, faithful servant,’ if I just think good thoughts?” And at least in this revelation, you see Joseph’s not letting grass grow under his feet. He’s moving at the time, and I think that’s great.

Hank Smith: 32:50 Yeah. I’ve taken, time and time again, as we’ve gone through the Doctrine and Covenants this year, and John, you can tell me if I’m saying this too much, but this man, Joseph Smith, there is no doubt at all that he believes he’s a prophet. Because if he was making this up as he went, he sure is asking himself to do some really hard things. And it would be he’s just saying … And once he receives the revelation, he goes. I’m amazed that they even come to Ohio in the dead of winter. Right? When the Lord says, “Let’s go to Ohio,” Joseph is the first to pack up a sleigh. And I would say, man, if I was making this up, I’d say, “Go to Ohio.” “When?” “When it’s convenient and when the weather’s nice.”

Susan Easton Bl…: 33:33 Yeah, spring.

Hank Smith: 33:34 Right? Yeah, in a nice weather. So he gets up and he gets started. I like what you said there. He doesn’t let the grass grow under his feet. I’m going to use that, Susan.

Susan Easton Bl…: 33:42 Okay. Well, I mean, do you think Joseph’s … The committee’s going, “We need to start.” And someone says, “Joseph’s already cleaned it off, taken out the foliage, the fence is gone.” And you do get Hyrum Smith and Reynolds Cahoon, remember they’re part of the committee, they do dig the first trench for the walls. And George A. Smith hauling in the first stone, and the committee just kind of moving forward. And what I like about the building of the Kirtland Temple, is that as Joseph notices the men now moving into action, and he said their wives, [inaudible 00:34:24] behind the men and they’re spinning and sewing and all of that. And Joseph’s comment was that never had there been such a time of unity, harmony, and charity.

Susan Easton Bl…: 34:39 And there’s something about working side by side with people, their differences kind of fade away because you’re working for a common cause. And people need projects. We need projects that we share together much like you’re doing with this Come, Follow Me. We work side by side to try and accomplish something that we couldn’t do on our own. And my hats off to both of you. I think this is wonderful.

Hank Smith: 35:06 Yeah, we bond, don’t we? We bond in our projects.

Susan Easton Bl…: 35:10 You do.

John Bytheway: 35:13 I love what you’re saying there. When I think of the many youth service projects I’ve been in as a youth and in participating in the youth conference, it’s kind of funny, because some of the kids might think, “Ugh, we got to do this. We got to go dig up something.” But when they actually get there and start doing it, there is a bonding that goes on. And I always tell the kids, “Watch each other. Who’s working hard and who’s hardly working? You’re going to learn a lot about each other today at this service project.” But I like that you would say that, because I think those become really fun memories when we’re working on something together. And maybe that’s another good reason to have those JustServe projects. What’s that website, Hank? JustServe? And I was going to add that, what Susan said, that I love to tell my students, “Nephi said, ‘I will go and do.’ Not, ‘I will sit and stew.'”

Susan Easton Bl…: 36:06 That’s a great comment.

Hank Smith: 36:07 That’s a great quote.

John Bytheway: 36:10 Yeah. I was sitting and stewing when I thought of that.

Hank Smith: 36:12 I just want to highlight a couple of verses in 95 before we move on, maybe get both of your thoughts on them. The Lord says something I find interesting in verse six, he says, “They who are not chosen,” right? Those who don’t show up, many are called, but few show up, and those who don’t show up, those who don’t act, have sinned a very grievous sin in that they are walking in darkness at noon day. Now that’s an interesting parallel of it’s noon day. So it should be very bright outside and yet you are walking in darkness. So it seems when he says a very grievous sin, it’s not because you’re hurting him. It’s because you’re hurting you, right? You are hurting you. This is a very grievous sin because you are hurting you. And here the Lord is offering this light and he’s saying, “You’re refusing the light. You’re walking in darkness at noon day.” It reminds me of, John, you know the scriptures better than I do, Susan, you do too, but who sees the cloud of darkness over the earth? And Satan is laughing. Is that Enoch, right?

John Bytheway: 37:22 Enoch, yeah. In Moses, what’s that? Moses 7, Moses 6?

Hank Smith: 37:26 Yeah. Satan laughs because he’s got this darkness covering the earth.

John Bytheway: 37:31 I’m glad you brought up that phrase, because I think it’s such a great phrase. And to me, it was similar to what you were thinking, Hank, “You’re walking in darkness at noon day. There’s so much more light I would like to give you.” And to me, he’s still talking about the temple. “There’s so much more I want to give you and you’re walking in darkness at noon day. Your inaction is eclipsing all this light I want to give you.”

Susan Easton Bl…: 37:54 I like the fact that as time goes on and there is a temple, right? And they’re not going to dedicate it until March of ’36. But in January, missionaries have come home and Joseph is surprised they’ve baptized so few. And it’s so interesting. He has them come in and gives them an endowment. And then the difference, if you just looked at the sheer number of the converts that joined after. So it’s not just that they’re walking in darkness, but they are making all those that are in need of the gospel not receive it because they need this building so bad. So it’s like they’re putting off blessings.

Hank Smith: 38:37 Yeah. That’s a fascinating idea. And I haven’t been able to articulate this well, but I try to tell … As someone who’s preparing for the temple, I’ll say I knew I had some specific spiritual gifts. I could feel them. I knew I had them, but it took the temple to grow them. Right? Somehow after I went through the temple, it was like I had the dry mix, I needed to add water, right? Something needed to happen to make that grow. And it’s really hard for me to articulate, but I got better at teaching after I had my experience in the temple, and kept going back.

John Bytheway: 39:20 I think this is the metaphor. It reminds me of the year living beneath your privileges. And you remember the President Uchtdorf made the video about the cruise, where the guy … What was that called? Your potential, your privileges, I think. And that’s what that walking in darkness, “I’ve got so much more I want to give you and your inaction is the reason you don’t have it.”

Hank Smith: 39:49 Very Laman and Lemuel, right? “God doesn’t talk to me.”

Susan Easton Bl…: 39:51 Yeah, out there spinning their wheels. Yeah.

Hank Smith: 39:53 Now, he uses the phrase in verse seven, that I don’t know if we’ve heard before, and that is solemn assembly. It’s still a word we use today, but that’s a very Old Testament type word. Maybe the Lord did use it in Section 88. Maybe he did talk about a solemn assembly. What do they understand that to be, Susan? Do you know? Does Joseph understand what a solemn assembly is going to be?

Susan Easton Bl…: 40:20 Well, a solemn assembly, we know that you said you’re going to vote in priesthood quorums, right? And to vote sustaining very, very sacred event, very few times have we in this dispensations held solemn assemblies is different than sacrament meeting or state conference kind of thing, or even general conference.

Hank Smith: 40:48 Yeah. It’s a fascinating idea that … One thing I’ve learned in this year, Susan, and you can comment on this, that the Lord in earlier sections, he’ll drop little tiny hints and phrases about upcoming ideas, right? But at first he just drops little phrases. It’s like back in Section 38, “I don’t want you to go to Ohio. I’m going to endow you with power,” where Joseph’s probably thinking, “I don’t know what that means, but it sounds good.” Right? Section 88, “We’re going to have a solemn assembly. I don’t know what that means.” Even verse 17, he says, “Sayeth the son Ahman.” That is another idea that’s going to not be flushed out for another couple of years. What that means … And so one part that’s been, I’ve known Joseph was a prophet for a long time, but one thing that’s really strengthened my testimony of him are these little hints in these early sections that lead to larger things later on that he had no idea what was coming.

Susan Easton Bl…: 41:50 Right. It’s like the Lord’s done a tapestry, and we’re weaving a little bit there and then pretty soon you pull the string through and you go, “Ah, I get it. Good stuff though, uh-huh (affirmative).”

Hank Smith: 42:02 Yeah. I really like how these sections build on each other. As a Book of Mormon New Testament teacher, John and I both, our Doctrine and Covenants has really opened up this year, wouldn’t you say, John?

John Bytheway: 42:17 Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Hank Smith: 42:18 That maybe before this, I thought, “Susan, I don’t know how you and other Doctrine and Covenants teachers do that.” Right? “I don’t know how you keep people interested in the Doctrine and Covenants.” And now this year I’m going, “I needed some repenting. I absolutely needed some repenting. There’s a lot in here.”

Hank Smith: 42:33 I wanted to mention one other thing. And that is, I don’t think we have details on this. Do we, Susan? In verse 10, he says that, “Contention arose in the School of the Prophets.” Now, I’ve been in that room above the Whitney store where they were holding the School of the Prophets, and I got to say, it’s a small room and putting 20 men in there, I think contention would arise.

John Bytheway: 42:59 Your elbow’s in my side. Move.

Hank Smith: 43:01 I don’t think we have any specifics on what happened there. Do we?

Susan Easton Bl…: 43:05 Well, part of the contention, they’ve got a school going, they’ve got lots of subjects, but the contention, you could go right back to the front, why the Lord is chastising him. It’s who’s going to kick in the money to make all these buildings happen?

Hank Smith: 43:22 And so maybe that’s in verse 12 as well, “If you keep not my commandments,” and the commandments to build the temple, right? “The love of the father shall not continue with you. You will keep walking in darkness,” right? You will continue to walk in darkness. So four days later you said they get started.

Susan Easton Bl…: 43:38 Right. Four days later, they’re started and off they go, and you know how sometimes once you start doing it, it takes you a while and pretty soon you love doing it. And you see people coming in from all over to help to be a part of what’s becoming this unity and harmony and charity towards each other.

Hank Smith: 44:03 There’s a beautiful picture in the Come, Follow Me manual. John, I only have the digital one, but you can tell me if it’s in the hard copy, building the Kirtland Temple by Walter Rane. And yeah, it is a beautiful, and I love what you’re saying here, Susan, that once it starts happening, other people say, “I want in. I want to be a part of that.” John, if you-

Susan Easton Bl…: 44:26 Part of the bandwagon.

Hank Smith: 44:27 Yeah, if you’re on our video, you can see John’s holding it up there.

John Bytheway: 44:30 Yeah. I love the Walter Rane paintings. And at the BYU Salt Lake Center, they have the whole set of his kind of a Book of Mormon paintings. And I always tell my students, “Go look at the Prayer of Venus. Go look at …” Because we have the Arnold Friberg paintings in our mind, and it’s fun to see the Walter Rane paintings, but I love them. There was always people in action. You rarely see people standing straight up and down in Walter Rane paintings. They’re moving, and look at these people working there. I’m glad you pointed that out.

Hank Smith: 45:02 Now, they’re building on a place called the French Farm, Susan.

Susan Easton Bl…: 45:06 Okay. So the French Farm, there was a man named Peter French, and he’s selling out-

John Bytheway: 45:12 Peter French.

Susan Easton Bl…: 45:13 Yeah, Peter French, he’s selling his property, he’s got 103 acres, and he’s willing to sell it for $5,000. Those were the good old days and we all missed it. Right?

Hank Smith: 45:26 Right.

Susan Easton Bl…: 45:28 But in that land, it’s considered a choice land because they’ve got a quarry, and that’s the attractive, but he wants to sell it all as one parcel. Well, the Church as a whole doesn’t have that kind of money, but individuals start donating, giving money. Vienna Jaques mentioned in the Doctrine and Covenants. She gives over $1,000. Her money is received. Joseph kind of coming up with the last payment. And a large payment will be Father John Johnson out of Hiram, Ohio. He’s now come to Kirtland and it will be on that property that we’ve been talking about where you’ll get the Kirtland Temple and other buildings will be built.

Hank Smith: 46:16 Yeah. I mean, we’ve talked at length, Susan, about Martin Harris and his money giving to the Book of Mormon. And that was $3,000. So this for Vienna, that is not a small amount of money, $1,000 in 1833.

Susan Easton Bl…: 46:31 Yeah. They say that she actually gave 1,400 and she’s a single woman. There’s only two women mentioned by name in the Doctrine and Covenants, one being Emma, and one being this Vienna Jaques. She was a nurse and came out and Joseph asked what she was willing to give, and she was literally willing to give her all. But then on this French farm, that’s where you get what John first started talking about, about the city or stake of Zion at Kirtland. So that 103 acres is a center plot, and you’d say the very, very center of that is what we could probably call Temple Square, where you’ve got the buildings on it. And then from that, Joseph will actually survey out lots that are 10 acres a piece. And you’d say, “Well, would you go to Joseph Smith to get your lot as part of this?”

Susan Easton Bl…: 47:36 And the answer is, “No, you go to Newel K. Whitney.” And you say, “What is Newel K. Whitney?” “Well, he’s our Bishop there in Kirtland to assign it out.” Now, it’s a great plan, is plan of Zion. It looks similar to what we’ve learned before about Zion and independence. The problem is it doesn’t work. So you can have the plan, you’ve got the city of Zion, or stake of Zion, but the stake, that does work. And I find it so interesting, you should go to Section 96, that when you talk about the Kirtland stake, we don’t get a stake president per se until the Nauvoo years in 1841. But when you talk about who’s the stake presidency, we have a stake presidency, and guess what? They are the same people that are in the First Presidency.

Susan Easton Bl…: 48:38 So you get Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Frederick G. Williams, the one that have seen the temple at a distance, temple … Seeing it as a spirit to pass over them. But Newel K. Whitney, the Bishop in Kirtland, is to divide out the lots. And you can see in Section 96 that there’s a lot for the temple and the temple committee each are going to get a lot, and then it’s going to go out to others. But anytime we’re talking land, we’re talking money, and you get contention. You know, “Whose lot’s going to be closest to the temple? Hold it.”

Hank Smith: 49:23 Newel K. Whitney, he’s our … So the Church has a total of two bishops now, right? We have Edward Partridge-

Susan Easton Bl…: 49:29 Right, two bishops.

Hank Smith: 49:30 … and Newel K. Whitney. They’re in a very small club of probably very stressed men.

Susan Easton Bl…: 49:35 They’re in a small club, and there’s no words per se. That comes in Nauvoo too. So you’ve got a stake with no wards, but you do have, living within that stake, one Bishop.

Hank Smith: 49:47 One Bishop.

Susan Easton Bl…: 49:50 Big responsibility, especially when people … A lot of infighting.

John Bytheway: 49:56 Please join us for Part II of this podcast.