John Bytheway: 00:03 Welcome to Part II of this week’s podcast.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 00:07 I don’t think the Fall caused Adam to think less of Eve. If anything, the Fall caused Adam to think more of Eve because God confirmed the choice of Eve was critical. The Fall put Adam and Eve into a position where they were mortal, and where Satan could tempt them, and where they were using their agency between truth and error, and good and bad. The fall made, specifically forced mankind to be completely dependent upon Jesus Christ. That’s what the Fall does. So the Fall puts us into a position of mortality.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 00:46 Mankind is who has fallen. It wasn’t Eve that fell, it wasn’t Adam that fell, mankind has fallen. And when we are obedient to the Lord and keep his commandments and we use the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life, it brings us back up. I don’t believe that Adam and Eve exercised unrighteous dominion, but I do believe that through time, unrighteous dominion did creep in because that is Satan’s tool, not just with women and men, but within cultures, within people, within anything-

Hank Smith: 01:13 -governments.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 01:13 -regarding humankind. Yeah. There’s always going to be a tendency because of Satan’s influence to have unrighteous dominion. Sister Jones talks about the roles of men and women, and she says, “So often, we talk about the role of women as this role of a man is this,” and she says, “The role of every person is to learn to hear him and to obey Him. That’s our role.” It’s extremely important that in our understanding, God is not a minimizer and God is not a separator and God is not a divider, God is one who was trying to help exalt all people to become like Him. In fact, I was in a conversation with one of my neighbors years ago, and he’s not a member of the Church, and he just said…

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 01:55 We were talking about God and what he wants for us, and I asked the question, “What does God want for you?” And he says, “He wants me to be happy.” And he just lists all these things. And he has said to me, “What do you think God wants for you?” And I said, “He wants me to become like Him as we’re taught in the Doctrine and Covenants. He wants us to become joint heirs with his son, Jesus Christ. He’s not a God who was trying to get us like 99% of the way and then hold us back so we’re always demeaned in some sorts. Jesus Christ, our Savior is a God who wants us to be able to receive and have all that he has.”  That’s the kind of God that we’re talking about.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 02:30 Sometimes as humankind, we’re great until somebody gets above us. It’s President Benson’s great talk on pride. We’re fine until there is some type of competition. And if somebody gets above us, if they have more than we have, as President Benson talks about, then we have a problem. But as long as they’re below us, or as long as we have the gain on something, then we’re in trouble. And the pride is often from the bottom looking up. And as he says, more often so, but sometimes it’s also from the top, looking down. The comparison is the problem. Anytime one person is trying to oppress another, that is not coming from God, period.

John Bytheway: 03:06 All right. Okay. Let’s keep going, Barb.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 03:10 Talking about the Aaronic Priesthood in verse 29, we’re talking about the offices of elder and bishop, which are appendages, notice that word, appendage, that’s also very important, belonging unto the high priesthood. And again, the office of teacher and deacon are necessary appendages belonging to the lesser priesthood, which priesthood was conferred upon Aaron and his sons. It’s important we talk about appendages because we’re recognizing that they’re appendages. And this is what we were talking about perhaps a little bit before, is, they are not the priesthood, they are appendages to the priesthood.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 03:40 So that’s important scripturally. We do not say they are the priesthood, their offices are appendages to what God would call, in this case, the Aaronic Priesthood.

Hank Smith: 03:49 An appendage is like an arm.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 03:52 It’s a piece of something.

Hank Smith: 03:53 -I can use-

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 03:55 Right, exactly. Yeah. So we’re not saying this is it. So again, just as John was saying about our priesthood, we wouldn’t say to a young man, as a bishopric member, after passing a sacrament, “We’re so grateful for the Aaronic Priesthood, for passing the sacrament.” It is completely inappropriate because the Aaronic Priesthood is not a person, it’s an appendage to a greater thing, and a person holds or is ordained to a priesthood office. So that word, appendage is actually helpful in understanding the terminology as well that the prophets have asked us to use.

Hank Smith: 04:30 It’s a little thing, but it’s important, I think.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 04:31 I’ve had people that said, “Why does this even matter? Who cares? It’s just a matter of semantics.” Well, I can give you a number of reasons why it matters, because if you’re a 12-year-old girl and you just saw that 14-year-old boy making some decisions that were not very good, and the bishop just thanks the priesthood, which is him, for performing such a sacred duty, you just minimized the importance of the priesthood in that young girl’s mind. If you have a wife who is constantly hearing how great the priesthood is, referring to her husband, but yet at home, he acts very differently than he does in public, she can’t separate the priesthood from the man.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 05:09 It becomes very, very real. And I don’t just mean women to men, I mean men to men as well. And so if you want to demean the priesthood, call it a human being. There is no perfect human being on the earth, there’s not a single one. So even the most righteous man on the earth by calling him the priesthood is going to be demeaning to God’s power and authority. So that’s one reason that it’s so important.

John Bytheway: 05:34 That is why I love [Section] 121. Well, that it may be conferred upon them, it is true. But as soon as this, this, this, well then, Amen, or in other words, sayonara to the priesthood, he doesn’t have it anymore, he’s not qualified anymore to… he doesn’t have that power anymore. So I love 121 makes that distinction. It might be conferred upon you, it doesn’t mean you have it.

Hank Smith: 06:01 It’s important. I know that someone would say, “Well, the bishopric is doing their best up there. It’s a difficult job, don’t criticize.” I don’t think we’re criticizing as much as we’re saying, this is an important-

John Bytheway: 06:14 No, I love the clarity. When I was a bishop. I think I heard Sheri Dew say it the first time. You can help me, Barbara, did Sheri talk about that? It’d be proper to say, “We’d like to thank the priesthood for… ” And I thought, “That’s right.” That is not exactly what happened, and so that helped me.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 06:33 Yeah. Sheri Dew has done amazing foundational work on helping us understand priesthood itself, and then also its connection to women as well. So yes, definitely. It seems like a small thing, but it’s huge. It’s bigger than we can realize.

Hank Smith: 06:52 Bishopric members do a lot of work and it’s not like, “Well, get everything perfectly.” But this one seems-

John Bytheway: 06:59 No, it was helpful.

Hank Smith: 07:01 … important enough to mention.

John Bytheway: 07:02 It was one of those of course things when I heard it. “Yeah, I’m going to watch that.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 07:07 Yep. Again, it’s something that’s been traditional, but not something that is definitely sound to say. We’re learning, we’re improving step by step, again. It’s good. So as we’re continuing on, we’re looking at 31 and again, now we’re getting into the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood. And we can talk about this in terms of the patriarchal priesthood as well. In fact, it’s extremely important that we do. For those who have entered the temple and received their endowments and especially their initiatories, some of this wording may actually even sound somewhat familiar for women as well as for men. I think it’s important that men also realize that the terminology and gender doesn’t change for the women in the temple.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 07:52 So it doesn’t change to a she or a her, it doesn’t say any from sons to daughters, but the women are receiving the same blessings. That’s extremely important. Many men don’t understand that. And so that similar terminology is coming from the Book of Exodus, but women are hearing the similar phraseology when they enter the temple as well. So then you talk about this idea of, first of all, Moses and the sacrifice in the house. And so we’re, again, we’re talking about temple, that House of the Lord. We talk about the sons of Moses and if Aaron shall be filled with the glory of the Lord.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 08:22 And then we get into verse 33. And I’m going to stop here for a second because many people, although the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood is going to apply to men, just an invitation to see how it does apply to women as well. In fact, recently President Nelson was asked by Sister Bingham in just a short interview that they did, part of it was placed on General Conference, but part of it wasn’t. And she simply said to him, “President Nelson, does the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood apply to women? And he said, “Absolutely, of course does. Why wouldn’t it?” Kind of that idea, of course it does.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 08:58 And so you look at this and how does it apply to women as well. And I can walk through this, but before I even do that, just a simple testimony. I had Sister Burton who was General Relief Society President, gosh, 10 years ago, yeah, about 10 years ago, who asked the BYU Women’s Conference for the women of the Church to memorize the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood. I did not memorize it when I first heard it, although I thought it was a great idea. She was inspired, I’m trying to say, but it stuck in my head that I should. And I thought about it a number of times, and I thought, “You know, memorize the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood. That’s great, but that’s just more work, and that’s something that men are supposed to do.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 09:36 The men pass that off, women have their own thing. But then I was asked to speak at Women’s Conference on the topic of “Women and the Priesthood,” and I realized that if I was going to speak on the topic, then I needed to fulfill what our  President of the Church under the keys of the prophet asked us to do, and that was to memorize the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood. And so I went to the temple, sat in the initiatory session and took the scriptures out and I memorized. It took me a long time, because I’m not a good memorizer, but I memorized the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 10:07 And my understanding of women and priesthood and the initiatory and the temple completely changed that day, 100%, because I had it in my head. And then when the promises and then when the covenants and when the oaths were being read to me, or being said to me, I recognized, “Wait a second, I think that this actually applies to women too, because I think I’m hearing very similar things.” And so you go through this and you talk about these two priesthoods. Where do you hear about two priesthoods at the same time? We learn about two priests in the temple.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 10:40 And we can talk about that, as Elder Bednar said, we need to be talking about things of this nature more and more. And so we talk about the two priesthoods in the temple, and we talk about the sanctifying and renewing of bodies in the temple. And then we talk about becoming the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the Church and the kingdom and the elect of God. Well, how do you become the seed of Abraham? By making covenants with the Lord. And who is the seed of Abraham? Is it just the men? No, seed refers to all children. And as we talked about before, Abraham was married, there would be no seed of Abraham if there was no woman.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 11:17 And in this case specifically, in the covenant relationship, is Abraham and Sarah, through the loins of the two and then through Isaac. And so how do you enter into the Abrahamic Covenant? You make and keep covenants, specifically in the temple, starting at baptism, which President Oaks says, “We make those covenants in the temple to be willing to take upon us the name of Christ, but we actually take upon us the name of Christ in the temple.” So where are we taking upon us the name of Christ, and where do we specifically make these covenants in the temple? Where we become, as it says in 34, the elect of God. And then you continue on, “And also, all they who received this priesthood receive me.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 11:56 We can talk about that word receive. When do we receive the Holy Ghost? When we were ordained to a priesthood office or when we decide to receive it? So we talk about receiving, do women receive the priesthood? Well, yes they do. They receive the priesthood when they make and keep sacred ordinances with the Lord. 35, “And also, all they who receive this priesthood receive me, sayeth the Lord. For he that receiveth my service receiveth me.” Both women and men receive God’s servants. He that receiveth me receiveth my Father,” again, both. And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom, therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 12:35 So when we’re talking specifically about this Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood and the promises that are being made, we’re talking about both women and men.

Hank Smith: 12:46 Yeah. I’ve noticed Barb, that there’s some interesting pronouns there, verse 33, magnifying, their calling, verse 35, “All they who receive the priesthood receive me.” Other places he’s using the male pronouns, but there, you can see there’s a hint towards what I think what you’re seeing here.

John Bytheway: 13:05 And that’s a good thing to circle out. Here’s seed, that’s everybody, here’s they, that’s everybody.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 13:13 Yeah. This whole entire idea, the other thing that’s important to understand with sometimes the Oath and Covenant, it’s important to know that it is the Lord who squares with an oath, that everyone who keeps the covenants that are connected to them or cares of the priesthood will receive the blessings. So God is the one who swears this oath, and God’s for this oath that we would become, in a sense, joint heirs with Christ, which is what he’s saying in verse 38. “All that my Father has shall be given unto him.” And we know as both women and men, that there is no blessing a priesthood holder is going to receive that one who also makes and keeps covenants with the Lord are not going to receive.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 13:54 So all blessings are going to be the same. And this becomes important as well, and I know that for some, this may sound crazy, but there are many women who believe that it is for the men to receive all that God has. It’s surprising to think that many women don’t believe that. And it’s surprising to know that there are some men who have a hard time believing that. In fact, I’ll be personal, I had a man who was a stake president, who was incredible, extremely bright. And he sat at my dinner table recently and he said, “I’ve been a temple worker, I’ve been a stake president, I’ve been a bishop, I’ve been in charge of all the assignments. And it wasn’t until recently studying the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood and studying women’s priesthood power and authority that I actually realized that women had all of the same ability to call upon, receive revelation, and have power and authority in our home as I did.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 14:40 He said, “I just didn’t even know it.” He’s like, “How differently I would have treated my Relief Society President as a stake president and as a bishop and how differently I would have treated my wife had I understood priesthood power and authority as taught this way.” This isn’t an 11-year-old boy, this is a man who was in his late 60s, early 70s being called as a mission president who finally, for the first time, after having many ecclesiastical assignments realizing this. I can’t tell you how many letters that I have received from men who are humble and good and kind saying, “I had no idea.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 15:10 So this is something that we are needing to learn a lot about. It’ll make a huge difference in the Church if we can synergistically work together and understand these concepts.

John Bytheway: 15:20 Barbara, I’d love you to comment on this because this is 22 years ago, October, 1999, President James E. Faust said, “In his infinite wisdom, the Lord requires worthy brethren to wear the mantle of the priesthood in order to enter the temple, but he permits his sisters to enter solely by virtue of their personal worthiness.” And that’s just a fun one to ponder. Well, I’d love to hear what you think about that.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 15:48 Yeah, I would love to have an answer for that, why it is that women could enter the temple and receive and be endowed with priesthood power and authority without having been, at least in mortality, ordained to a priesthood office. I don’t have an answer to that. I do think it’s fascinating, and I think it’s for women and men to both understand it. President Nelson talks about how one day he looks forward to dwelling in the hereafter. And he actually says, regarding his wife, we will have been faithful to the covenants made in the temple and to the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood, which have assured us in the words of the Lord, that all that my Father has shall be given unto you.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 16:30 And he says, “Faithful sisters share the blessings of the priesthood.” I don’t know why women can enter the temple without being ordained to a priesthood office. I have ideas and I’ve had a lot of people give me their opinions on this, but I have never heard again, the prophet or I’ve never read in the scriptures the reason behind it. But I do think it’s for women, something that if understood and thought about, I think the Spirit, once again, is going to teach with empowering thoughts and feelings, as the Spirit often does.

John Bytheway: 17:00 I feel like it’s an empowering thought that there’s something that they perhaps inherently have. And so I love that. It’s caused me to think, “Wow, that’s… ” And it makes sense to me too.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 17:16 It’s also interesting that Elder Pieper of the Seventy had a quote recently, just a few years ago, where he talks about, in regards to the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood, and again, we’re talking about this in context of the temple, but he says, “Note that he,” and he’s talking about in verse 33, “Whoso is faithful unto the obtaining of these two priesthoods?” And he says, “Note that the Lord doesn’t use the word ordaining, he uses the word obtaining. He doesn’t use the word ordaining again, he uses the word receiving.” And both women and men obtain and receive, although one does not necessarily need to be ordained to that priesthood office.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 17:50 I think it’s fascinating that we can obtain and receive the priesthood and all the blessings associated with priesthood simply through our purity and through our covenants. Which is true for women, and as men continue with their purity, their power increases as well. But it is very interesting. Thanks, John.

John Bytheway: 18:09 Thank you. That same talk is referred to in the Come, Follow Me Manual and the words obtain and receive. And I’ve always liked the word receive because it implies more of, I’m allowing it, I’m inviting it in, it’s conferred. It’s like, I receive this, I take it in. We talked about that before with the Holy Ghost, receive the Holy Ghost, which we’re all invited to do.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 18:33 Six times in the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood just between 35 and 40-

John Bytheway: 18:36 The word receive.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 18:37 The word received is used there. And I think it is significant that it’s not ordained, it is received. It’s requiring a decision on the part of the receiver to act.

Hank Smith: 18:50 Who was it, John, in one of our podcasts interviews, someone said, think of a wide receiver.

John Bytheway: 18:57 Brad did.

Hank Smith: 18:58 The quarterback throws the ball, but the receiver’s got to receive.

John Bytheway: 19:02 He’s got to take it in, yeah. When you read closely the parable of the sower, he that received seed, it uses that same word. You just fall down, but you receive seed and then it can grow.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 19:18 I just want to make that point though, too, that in the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood, we’re talking about, “But whoso breaketh this covenant.” And it’s very serious for both women and men that this covenant is serious and that we as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, when we enter the temple and we were making covenants with the Lord, that we need to be clean and we need to do all we can and we need to repent. If there’s a problem, that we turn to the Lord and say, “Yes, I recognize that I have faltered, and through and through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, I need help becoming better.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 19:50 Sometimes we see this and sometimes it can be so heavy handed as if, maybe I shouldn’t go to the temple because gosh, I could be condemned forever. I don’t think that that is the way that the Lord works. As President Packer says, “We need to repent and repent and repent and repent, and continue to repent.” And so I think that that’s the same idea here, that we are diligent in doing all that we can living by the word of God and repenting, if in some way we are not perfect, which none of us are.

Hank Smith: 20:16 Yeah. So maybe verse 41, breaking the covenant means stop repenting, like, “I’m done repenting, I’m going a different way.”

John Bytheway: 20:24 I’m not making course corrections anymore. When I was a bishop, boy, the impression, whenever people would come in for recommends was always, “The Lord wants this person in the temple.” I loved how often I felt that no matter where they were at, the Lord wanted them in the temple.

Hank Smith: 20:44 Yeah. I noticed that. Yeah, I think you’re right here, Barb. It’s not about making a mistake, it’s turning, “All together turneth therefrom.” That’s in verse 41. I’m not interested anymore in you. That’s a scary place. I’m glad. Heavy handed is right if you think of it as, if you make a mistake after going to the temple, that’s it. You’re choosing not to be forgiven because you’re choosing not to repent.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 21:20 And I think we have to be careful, and sometimes it depends on what side of the pendulum we’re on at times. But in 38, God is giving us, he says, Jesus Christ, “All that my Father has shall be given unto him.” And there’s nothing more you can give than everything. It’s everything.

Hank Smith: 21:41 A pretty high percentage.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 21:43 And then at the same time, sometimes I’m thinking, “I don’t know if it’s worth the price. If I mess up, then, gosh, I lose everything too.” But that’s not the case here. It is through the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we are able to receive everything as long as we are willing to receive Him. And as we receive Him, he continues that promise and it continues on and on and on and on. I think we do need to be careful though of that cheap grace idea, God does expect effort. God does expect us to work. God does expect us, as President Nelson said, he expected Moses, as is talked about here in this Section 84, not to meet him at the bottom of the mountain, not the middle of the mountain, but at the top of the mountain.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 22:20 And God is willing to give us all that He has, but there is a price that has to be paid. Christ paid the ultimate price, and He does expect effort and He does expect us to receive Him. He does expect us to be serious about this priesthood and to really give our lives to the Lord and sacrifice all that we have, as President Nelson has talked so much about, especially in terms of covenant Israel.

John Bytheway: 22:45 I like it was that idea of, yeah, we don’t want to go all the way to… We want to talk about effort. Look at 43 and 44, “Give diligent heed to the words of eternal life for you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.” I love the idea of striving, that you just keep trying. That it’s not just verbal assent, but you just keep… Just the words alone aren’t enough, you’re going to keep trying.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 23:18 Yeah, that’s beautiful. Yeah. We were studying the Doctrine and Covenants with our daughters this morning as well, and my husband just said, “How do you gain more light?” And my little five-year-old, I don’t even know where she learned this, and she said, “By being obedient.” Do you even know how intelligent you are, legitimately? That real word, intelligent, Section 93. I was just shocked by it. But somehow, in her very young mind, she understands the light, literal light comes through obedience to the gospel. And it’s interesting that the Lord is teaching that here in verse 45 and then 46, “The Spirit giveth light to every man that cometh into the world.” And then how we increase in that light is we continue to draw closer to the Lord.

John Bytheway: 24:02 I just think light is one of the most fascinating topics to me. This takes me back to section 50, the verse that, “Which is of God is light and he that receiveth light and continueth in God receiveth more light.” All those verses are so interesting to me. And the light glows brighter and brighter. It’s not all on, all off, it just keeps glowing.

Hank Smith: 24:25 And then you can go to Section 93, “The wicked one cometh and taketh away light.”

John Bytheway: 24:29 Yeah. And later on in this section, your minds have been darkened, in verse 54, “Your minds and times past have been darkened because of unbelief.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 24:42 Yeah. I love that, “Because of unbelief and because you’ve treated lightly the things which you have received.” Sometimes, it is so easy in our world today to just take for granted what we have or to not understand that these are some of the most sacred things that God has for his children. And the world would just love to manipulate that, or to dilute that, or make righteous things silly or make evil good. We know these scriptures back and forth, but for God, you think about all that he has done, what he’s willing to give us. And he’s just saying, “Do not treat these things lightly.” Because throughout Church History and even to our day, many have.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 25:22 And these are returned missionaries again, that the Lord is speaking to. And these are those who have had incredible experiences and the Lord is reminding them at this early stage in Church History, “This is the foundation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do not take these things lightly. You are setting the framework and the grounding for an incredible international church that is going to eventually bring in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Don’t take it lightly.”

John Bytheway: 25:46 Well, I love what you said at the beginning, Oliver Cowdery comes in and is like, “Is anybody writing this down? Are you hearing this? This is incredible.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 25:58 Yeah. And I thought to myself that same thing, like, “What am I taking lightly? What am I not writing down? What has the Lord done for me that I have just said, ‘Yeah, it’s not important enough to write down,’ but in reality, it’s probably the most important thing that’s happened that year, that maybe it was just an answer to a prayer that I just took for granted”? It happens a lot.

Hank Smith: 26:16 There are so many parables of Jesus where the king goes, gives an invitation and they take it lightly.

John Bytheway: 26:21 They take it lightly.

Hank Smith: 26:22 They take it lightly. Can I say, don’t take light lightly?

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 26:27 That’s good.

Hank Smith: 26:28 I had to do it.

John Bytheway: 26:28 Very nice, very nice.

Hank Smith: 26:31 Don’t take light lightly.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 26:32 Well, and that leads us into the Book of Mormon. And that’s what he’s talking about here, don’t take things lightly. And he says, “And I am giving you the Book of Mormon.” Of all the things to not take lightly, let’s not take the sacred writings of these prophets in the ancient Americas lightly, they gave their life for it. They lived their life. They gave life for it. Let’s not take this lightly.

John Bytheway: 26:51 I love when I start my Book of Mormon classes, sometimes I’ll say, “Can we imagine that Lucy Mack Smith just walked into the room and maybe she would stand in front of us and say, “Do what it costs my family to bring you this book?” Just think of what she gave and her family gave, let alone all the people you just talked about who wrote the book and sacrificed, but look at what the Smith family gave to bring us this.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 27:21 For a number of years, until recently, the Book of Mormon hasn’t had the phenomenal place, the center place, as it now does in Church, especially among missionary work.

John Bytheway: 27:33 I think it’s probably fair to say that presidents of the Church wouldn’t want to be known for some specific doctrine, but all of them are trying to lead us to the Savior and everything. But President Benson, his emphasis on the Book of Mormon was so strong, and I used to have my students read A Witness in a Warning just for extra credit, because it was just conference talks. But so many of them were, “We’ve got to get back in the Book of Mormon.” And I remember him in one of them saying that as he participated in the Mexico City temple dedication, he said, I received the distinct impression that the Lord is not pleased with our neglect of the Book of Mormon and of this, we must repent, and has not been the center of our teaching of our Family Home Evening.

John Bytheway: 28:15 And every conference, he was really hitting that. And so this verse 57, I think he also said that condemnation, that it’s speaking of, has never been lifted.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 28:27 Yeah. That’s right.

John Bytheway: 28:28 That was a moment in the General Conference to go, “Whoa.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 28:33 President Nelson actually talks about how he remembered President Benson calling him into his office when President Benson… President Benson was a prophet and President Nelson was first called as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve. He said, “President Benson expressed deep concern that the members of the Church did not fully appreciate the value of the Book of Mormon.” And then he said, with emotion in his voice, he read to him versus 54, 55, 56 and 57. He said, “I shall never forget that lesson.” Since then, president Howard W. Hunter, President Gordon, B. Hinckley, and many other leaders of the Church have continued to extol the Book of Mormon to people throughout the world.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 29:09 And then he just says, “I will add my testimony of the divinity of this book. I have read it many times. I have also read much that has been written about it. Some others have focused upon its stories, its people, its vignettes of history. Others are intrigued by languages, structure or its records of weapons, geography, animals, life, etc.” And then he says, “Interesting as these matters may be, study of the Book of Mormon is most rewarding when one focuses on its primary purpose to testify of Jesus Christ. By comparison, all other issues are incidental.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 29:39 And then he just talks about the importance of us, as we study the Book of Mormon, to focus on the Lord Jesus Christ and the son of the living God, which he does now. How many times has President Nelson asked us to read the Book of Mormon?

John Bytheway: 29:49 In fact, there’s something I show my classes. In October, 2017 General Conference, President Nelson gave a talk called “The Book of Mormon, What Will Your Life Be Like Without It?” And it’s only in the Ensign or online, but there’s this thing called President Nelson’s Book of Mormon Lists at the end of that, because it’s not part of the talk, but it’s bullet points. The Book of Mormon affirms, the Book of Mormon refutes, the Book of Mormon clarifies, the Book of Mormon, it’s all these little things of.

John Bytheway: 30:16 One of those says–we can bring this back to our topic–“Talks about the Fall and the special wisdom of Eve. It mentions that in there.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 30:26 When I was on my mission, I’ll just tell a quickie. We were teaching this gentleman, it was Christmas Eve and my companion and I started discussing the Book of Mormon. We just read a passage out of it. And we were in downtown LA, kind of a scarier area. And I remember him just looking at us and he said, “What is the name of that book that you’re reading?” And we said, “Well, what do you mean?” And he said, “What’s the name of the book?” And we said that it’s the Book of Mormon, it is on Spanish.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 30:54 And he says, “Oh, that’s so interesting because it reminds me of the same book that this man listens to every day on the way to work that I drive with.” And we said, “Well, what is the name of that book?” And he goes, “I don’t know, something about [foreign language 00:31:08] or something. Something like the Doctrine and Covenants or something.” And we said, “Well, that’s so funny.” We held up our book and we said, “These are a part of the same thing.” And he touched his heart and he just said, “I knew it must be from the same source, because I feel the same feeling when you’re reading from the Book of Mormon, as I do every morning, when I drive to work with this man.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 31:31 Long story short, you hear these stories and this is almost one of those insight stories, but he went back to that man and told him about some random sister missionaries knocking on his door and he ended up getting baptized shortly after. Equally importantly, I guess he asked us for as many copies of the Book of Mormon as he could possibly have. And he just delivered it to every person he could possibly find, his family, his friends, his people at work, and he just fell in love with this book because of the spirit. And it was interesting that he was able to feel the same spirit with the Doctrine and Covenants as the Book of Mormon, without having any introduction to either except for that one evening. It’s pretty fascinating.

Hank Smith: 32:02 An Elder Holland has given some great talks in his life I think you both would agree. But the one I’ll probably always remember was, I can’t believe it’s 12 years ago now, 2009 called “Safety for the Soul.” You can’t just read it, you have to listen to it.

John Bytheway: 32:21 Yeah. Isn’t that where he says that they are finding comfort and solace in a book in Carthage jail? Would they have done that from a book they created out of whole cloth? They would not do that. It’s a powerful-

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 32:34 Climb over it, climb under.

John Bytheway: 32:36 You’re going to have to go… But I think it makes me want to mention these exact words here in verse 57 because Elder Holland wrote his own Book of Mormon commentary and it’s called Christ and the New Covenant. And this is the phrase here in verse 57, “Until they remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon.” So it’s another name for it. It is interesting, it’s a new covenant.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 33:05 I love President Nelson’s emphasis on that Book of Mormon. Again, quoting President Benson, President Nelson continues where he says, “Every Latter-day Saint should make the study of the Book of Mormon a lifetime pursuit, otherwise he is placing his soul in jeopardy and neglecting that which could give spiritual and intellectual unity to his whole life.” This condemnation is real, and this section of the Doctrine and Covenants we have prophets today that are just saying, they don’t just want us under condemnation, they don’t want us just to read the Book of Mormon, they want our lives to become spiritually and intellectually unified.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 33:39 They want us to have a whole life. And the Book of Mormon does that for us. The Book of Mormon really does open our eyes. It helps us to sift through the things that aren’t important. It helps us to understand the doctrine of the atonement of Jesus Christ, the hereafter. There’s so many doctrines and teachings in the Book of Mormon that without it, we simply cannot understand the beauties of the plan of salvation and the eternal nature of what we have. And the focus on the priesthood too.

Hank Smith: 34:03 On the flip side, Barb, I’ve learned more about the Adversary in the Book of Mormon than anywhere else. It’s like having a playbook.

John Bytheway: 34:09 It is.

Hank Smith: 34:11 What does President Benson say? The Book of Mormon exposes the enemies of Christ, it hands you their playbook. If you want your kids to be prepared for the type, what does he call them?

John Bytheway: 34:21 The type of apostates we have today are the same type that are in the Book of Mormon. In fact, that’s in that witness and a warning. He says the Book of Mormon brings men to Christ in two ways by testifying of men and women to Christ, testifying of the gospel and bringing them to Jesus Christ and exposing the enemies of Christ. I love to ask my students, why would you give Korihor any airtime at all? And usually, they’ll come up with it. Well, now we know the tactics, and thank heavens.

Hank Smith: 34:48 And Nehor and Sherem.

John Bytheway: 34:52 Nehor and Sherem, Amalickiah. There’s a whole host of them in there.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 34:55 The reality is that the tactics, you’re saying this, but they aren’t new. Every single tactic we hear today has already been exposed in the Book of Mormon.

John Bytheway: 35:03 “No devil, there is none.”

Hank Smith: 35:07 “You’re foolish, deranged mind.”

John Bytheway: 35:11 “Traditions of your fathers.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 35:13 And then I love also as we continue that, just this idea that Christ is going to be calling them his friends. I love him for 63, “Ye are my friends.” And just this beautiful 77 again, “Again I say unto you, my friends, from henceforth, I shall call you friends. It is expedient that I give unto you this commandment that you become, even as my friends in days when I was with them, traveling to preach the gospel in power. Those who are teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, those who are putting forth the effort to teach the good word of God and bring people to Christ, he considers his friends.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 35:48 I just think that’s such a beautiful, I used to say now in our pronoun to be able to speak to them in that type of nature.

John Bytheway: 35:57 Yeah. I think there’s, I don’t know, it would be fun to do some searching and see if there’s a progression because it’s time, it’s my servants and it becomes friends. I love that progression like you said.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 36:13 President Eyring actually did give a talk at BYU graduation regarding the Lord’s use of the word friends in the Doctrine and Covenants. He does talk about the importance of God calling Joseph and others his friends. It’s beautiful.

Hank Smith: 36:26 Okay. What’s up? What’s next?

John Bytheway: 36:27 Let’s see. We got a bunch of promises made to the missionaries that sound very much like the Bible.

Hank Smith: 36:34 Yeah. There’s lots of Matthew language.

John Bytheway: 36:36 Matthew language and Sermon on the Mount language.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 36:39 I will say, when you get to 64 through 70, the Lord is talking about all the things that we can do in his name. And again, as President Oaks and Elder Bednar talked about, in the temple, we take upon ourselves his name, whereas the sacrament, we are willing to take upon his name. And then you see the things that God is commanding his missionaries in this case, but others also to do in his name. The wonderful works that they’re able to do, casting out devils, healing the sick, opening the eyes of the blind, and stopping the ears of the deaf, having the tongues of the dump, being able to speak, this poison everything else.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 37:12 And again, these may be things that we may take advantage of, or even take for granted of as members of the Church, but to see this promise happening to these early members of the Church, that this was the Church of Jesus Christ being established. And again, just talking about this priesthood and what those who hold the priesthood are told to do, but also those who receive and are endowed with priesthood power and the possibilities of what they were able to do as well as a result of this.

John Bytheway: 37:36 Yeah. That’s pretty cool though, to think of it that way, is that us? We’re going to do this too?

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 37:43 Yeah. You do think about the healing of the sick and the opening the eyes of the blind and things like that, and we think, how do we do that as ministers of the Lord’s work here on the earth? And some things we have been taught that there are some things that are required for one who is ordained to a priesthood office today, but there are other things that women can do through their endowment and through the power that they have, that is also very much applicable to some of these things here. But there is a lack of understanding that in the early days of the Church, women really did give priesthood blessings, especially blessings of healing.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 38:18 And many just struggle with that, well, why aren’t women given the power or the authority to do so today? Well, that was relieved of women in the early 1900s, because they were going to scriptures and saying it is the elders of the Church that are supposed to be performing that. But it was very common in the early days of the Church and the direction of Joseph Smith for the women of the Church to actually perform blessings of healing. And not just faith blessings, they were doing so because of the power and authority of the temple that they believe that they had.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 38:48 So sometimes as members of the Church, we too quickly say, “No, no, no. Those were just faith blessings, they really weren’t there…” But no, they did. They used oil, they were healing, they knew they were doing so. And Joseph Smith actually said, why wouldn’t the women of the Church perform healing blessings? They are so righteous. Of course, they’re doing this. And we have Eliza Snow talking about healing blessings that she was performing in the 1880s. And so we need to be careful as we teach the gospel to not just say just because we don’t do it today, they didn’t do it then.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 39:15 That’s actually not right, and that’s confusing for many people. They did perform healing blessings, they did perform those things. They didn’t necessarily do it under the name of Jesus Christ by the power of the Melchizedek Priesthood as we would do it today. But it was very, very common for women to perform healing blessings in the early days of the Church.

Hank Smith: 39:30 Our friend, Anthony Sweat has a beautiful picture that he’s painted of one of those blessings in the early days of the church. I don’t know if you’ve both seen it.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 39:41 Yeah, I love it.

Hank Smith: 39:42 His wonderful wife is the woman giving the, or is the woman receiving the blessing. I recognized her immediately. I was like, “Hey, that’s Sister Sweat.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 39:51 I’m bringing this up, especially in terms of this because the Church is growing and there is a line upon line process. But as teachers, we have to be very careful to not just simply dismiss it and say, “No, that was actually a faith blessing.” No, the records of the Church are actually very clear, and you can read in the writings of the women of the Church in their own personal journals, many, many diaries and many, many instances, even in the writings of the early brethren of the Church who were talking about the healing blessings of women.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 40:18 And that they were actually anointing with oil and they were actually sealing the anointing. And so we have to be careful to just dismiss it because when we dismiss the truth, we cause more confusion. And sometimes, in an attempt to make the Church more true today, we want to erase our past. By teaching that women performed healing blessings in the early days of the Church because of the temple endowment and the power and the way that they believed that they had in no way makes this Church any less true.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 40:46 It means that we were learning a line upon line process and women at that time were given the responsibility and even the privilege of doing so from the prophet. And that’s great. I think that’s fantastic. And it’s also fantastic to know that in our day, we have men who are ordained to priesthood offices that are given the authority to then perform these priesthood functions. So both ways, the Church is still true, but let’s be careful not to just diminish the past in order to make the presence seem perfect.

Hank Smith: 41:12 Yeah. Make it a little more comfortable.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 41:15 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 41:17 Barbara, there’s some beautiful New Testament language here. I know that you liked verse 82.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 41:23 I do. This verse, “Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow, they toil not, neither do they spin. And the kingdom of the world and all their glory are not arrayed like one of these.”I just love this idea of God knowing everything. He knows the lilies of the field, he knows our sorrows. He knows what we need to know, he knows what we struggle with. He knows our joys. In my life I’ve experienced that Christ really does consider the lilies of the field. He knows us, he knows our wants, our desires. He knows what is best and it’s a matter of trusting in him.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 41:58 But then this verse 84 that ties into this, “Therefore, let the morrow take thought for the things of itself.” 85, “Neither take your thought beforehand what you shall say, but treasure up in your mind, continually the words of life. And it shall be given unto you at the very hour that portion that shall be needed unto every man.” This emphasis that God is placing on making sure that we study and that we treasure in our mind, the words of eternal life, and that in the moment we need them, we will be able to say the right thing. We’ll be guided by the spirit.

Hank Smith: 42:28 Well, I’ve noticed in Matthew, Chapter 10, the Lord seems to say, there’s a difference between accepting the gospel and accepting the missionary or being-

John Bytheway: 42:39 The person.

Hank Smith: 42:40 Yeah. Being kind to the person. Because he says, “When you come to a house,” this is Matthew 10 verse 12, “When you come to a house, salute it. And that the house be worthy,” which means receptive, “Let your peace come to it,” meaning your message, “But if they’re not worthy, not receptive, then let your peace return unto you, don’t try to teach.” But then he says, “And whose souls shall not receive you nor hear your words.” Like when they’re not even, they’re just what you said, John, it’s just a flat out rejection. That’s a little different, he says. And maybe that’s the idea of like the Lord just doesn’t like when any of us treat each other that way.

Hank Smith: 43:21 I got chased by a man with a baseball bat on my mission, I remember, and my companion wanted to stand up to him and tell him to repent. I was like, “We got to go.”

John Bytheway: 43:32 I had a guy just threaten to shoot me in the head, but he was so drunk, I don’t think he could have hit the broadside of a barn.

Hank Smith: 43:42 But I’ve never thought of cleansing my feet off there, Barb.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 43:44 I was going to say the same thing. I think maybe specifically for these missionaries at that time, that may have been a commandment for them specifically. But I think the principle of just making sure that everyone has a chance to hear the voice of God.

Hank Smith: 43:56 I like that Barbara. And I think one other thing is sometimes missionaries have a tendency to not move on, they just think, “I’m going to try again. I’m going to try again. I’m going to try again.” And the Lord might be saying here, “Listen, if someone doesn’t even feed you, give you anything,” which is very common for that time, to take a stranger in and to let them sleep in the barn or let him give them a meal. He was like, “You can move on. It’s okay to move on. You shall not return again to that man or that place. It’s okay to move on.”

Hank Smith: 44:28 And I don’t know, it might be what we’re saying, “I’ll take care of it.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 44:34 Yeah. That’s good.

John Bytheway: 44:36 I think it’s fascinating that President Nelson’s recent talk about those who are willing to let God prevail. I thought, “Oh, well, that’s interesting.” Where is their heart? If they’re willing to listen to you, they are Israel if they’re willing to let God prevail, was a different way of looking at it. I’m just going to keep trying. No, are they willing to listen? That’s a different question.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 45:00 Yeah. A couple I served, we taught in our mission that… We knocked on her door and she opened up her Book of Mormon. It was full of all of the names of every missionary that had taught her. And it must have been at least 20 different companionships over a number of years. And I remember just thinking to myself, “Why waste our time?” She’s making a point, why waste our time? But the spirit just simply said, give her a chance. It’s like, “Oh my gosh, you gotta be kidding me.” And she flat out rejected us.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 45:29 After teaching her for a couple of lessons, we were totally excited about her and just thought that this lady was golden, but then right before she was supposed to get baptized, she just said, “You know what, thanks, but no, thanks.” And our names are written in the records of her Book of Mormon. And I remember thinking-

John Bytheway: 45:45 But before you go, sign here.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 45:47 Exactly. That’s what it was. I remember thinking, “This lady is going to be condemned.” But on the positive side of this, in this instance, she actually came to the Visitor Center and visited us and she just said, “I recognize that God has given me so many chances that I am now making a mockery of him.” And it was an interesting experience. I wasn’t the missionary teaching her until she was baptized, but another couple did. And somehow the Spirit is the one who spoke to her and said, “You know the truth and it’s time to go.” But I’m glad that I wasn’t the judge.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 46:17 I’m glad that I was a part of the experience of helping this individual come into Christ, but I’m also glad that I wasn’t in a sense giving up on her. I’m glad somebody else picked up on her. God is never going to give up on any of us.

John Bytheway: 46:29 Well, I like what you said. Let’s just look at the principle, just keep spreading the news, keep inviting, keep spreading the gospel. This looks like poetry here in verses 99 through 102.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 46:44 It’s actually a beautiful song that they were asked to sing. The song is regarding the redemption of Zion and the coming forth of the millennial days. If you think again, I have to keep saying this, these missionaries were just, the church had only been established for a little over two years, and then singing songs about the redemption of Zion, “She’s clothed with the glory of her God. For he stands in the midst of his people. Glory, and honor, and power, and might, be ascribed to… ” This is just such high and amazing verbiage that we’re using here and terminology we’re using here, but they were believing, they were preparing themselves.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 47:19 And again, in reference to the temple, these are the kinds of things that we understand that I cannot see, an ear cannot hear these wonderful, beautiful words that they were teaching. You see in 104, the establishment of Zion, and 106 is the strong spirit and edifying, the meekness becoming strong. And then it talks again about the lesser priesthood and the higher priesthood and things. So it brings us back into the importance of the priesthood and redemption of Zion, which is quite beautiful.

Hank Smith: 47:45 I felt that before in 106, I felt awesome teachers like you, Barb and others who are strong in the spirit, lifting up those who maybe are weak, that they can be edified, and they can become strong also. I’ve experienced that being at the foot of amazing teachers and just felt, “Yeah. Wow. I feel strong now because of this person teaching me.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 48:16 Yeah. I had a wonderful mentor when I was struggling just with writing and things and he actually called and just said to me, “Barb, I would love to have you. If you wouldn’t mind, come to my office every day for an hour and you and I can sit together and look at lesson plans and writing.” And he had me go through every lesson plan and every writing that I ever did for probably two years. And if I didn’t call him first, he called and reminded me and I would go and just meet with him. And he just quietly helped me through the process.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 48:49 His name didn’t end up on any of the material, but he was a humble, meek man whose intention was to edify me and others through the spirit, completely selfless and teaching. He was an amazing example and mentor for me. It’s the edifying and helping each other. And that’s what, jumping from 106 and then just talking about the importance of each person, each office, each calling. And then 110, “The body hath need of every member, that all may be edified together, that the system may be kept perfect.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 49:19 President Oaks actually quoted Joseph Smith is saying, “While one portion of the human race is judging and condemning the other without mercy, the Great Parent of the universe looks upon the whole of the human family with a fatherly care and paternal regard; He views them as His offspring, and without any of those contracted feelings that influence the children of men.” And then Elder Oaks continues, “Let us all heed our prophets call to repent, to change and to improve. Only the gospel of Jesus Christ can unite and bring peace to people of all races and nationalities. We who believe in that gospel, whatever our origins, must unite and love of each other and of our Savior Jesus Christ.” That was to the BYU students in 2020.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 50:00 And that whole idea of reaching out and loving every single individual as children of God. It’s beautiful.

John Bytheway: 50:07 I love some of these phrases in 118, “I will not only shake the earth, but the starry heavens shall tremble.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 50:16 And you think again, who created the heavens in the earth and by what power, it was the priesthood. It’s interesting here that God, he’s starting the whole section talking about the priesthood. It’s talking about the temple, this missionary work. And there’s the small efforts that were so important. And then when it comes right down to it, the world can say whatever they want to say. They can reject everything of the gospel of Jesus Christ, his missionaries can be rejected and they can feel that they have done nothing of value. But in reality, when it comes right down to it…

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 50:48 I just love 18. And 119, especially, “I the Lord, have put forth my hand to exert the powers of heaven; and then you cannot see it now, yet a little while and you shall see it, and know that I am, and that I will come and reign with my people. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. Amen.” God is in control, this is his priesthood power. Nothing in the world compares to it. Men can strive to have every other kind of power and authority, but nothing compares to the power of God and his ability to reign and rule on the earth.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 51:22 And although it may seem small this time, they may not be able to see it now, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is the Christ. There’s no question whose power reigns, and it’s the priesthood power. And the Lord has given us the opportunity to use it.

Hank Smith: 51:38 You cannot see it now, but you soon will.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 51:44 And I think they would even to see us today, I think it would marvel at just how far this little seed has grown throughout this world. They were told to do this and even in 2021, the majority of this revelation has already been fulfilled.

Hank Smith: 52:03 Barb, you have shown us so much today. I have notes up and down, Section 84. I’m writing in the margins, in between the columns, trying to fit in everything I’ve learned. And I hope I can read my writing when I look at it again. But we’re grateful that you’ve been here. You’ve been studying these things and writing about them for decades. I think you’re our only chaplain. You are our returned missionary, a professor, a wife, a mother. What keeps you a woman of such brilliance really faithful in the Church, specifically, I want to ask you as a woman, how does that feel?

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 52:54 You have to be careful with this answer because it’s a sensitive topic for many people. I was raised in a strong Latter-day Saint home by parents who were not raised in what would necessarily be considered strong Latter-day Saints homes. I have seen many women struggle throughout their lives, especially as they get older and start understanding and are being influenced in a sense, a little bit more through the world. The members of the church are not perfect. I love Sheri Dew . . . has a comment. I can’t remember the exact terminology, but she said something to the effect of, never let a volunteer sway you from the truth or never be frustrated by a volunteer.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 53:40 I can’t remember exactly what it was. We are members of a perfect gospel where Jesus Christ does rule and he is in charge, but there are people who are not necessarily perfect, and we are to separate ourselves–that’s Doctrine and Covenants, Section 1. So I think it’s important first of all, that we understand that some women really have been hurt and some women perhaps really have been offended. And there are some very difficult situations that they have dealt with. On my side, although I have seen in some of those and experienced a few things that are not necessarily that large, what has kept me grounded in the gospel of Jesus Christ is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 54:19 It is my testimony of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I have studied the gospel as a child. I watched my mother and my father alone, and as a family studied the scriptures. I knew that my mom was able to make important decisions and make it through very difficult situations in her life through her study of the scriptures. I saw my parents raise their family and I saw some of the struggles that come from just difficulties. And their life was based on applying the gospel of Jesus Christ as a family.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 54:53 They weren’t perfect, but I observed as a child that regardless of my gender, I knew what I knew, and I saw what I saw and I couldn’t deny it. I saw the fruits of living the gospel of Jesus Christ in my own family. And so, as I continued on and I studied the scriptures, I was blessed to have a father who when I said, “I have a question about women in the priesthood, or I have a question about faith, or I have a question about this,” his answer wasn’t trite, or neither was my mother’s. It was, “Well, let’s talk about it. Let’s study it. Let’s ask more questions. Let’s figure this out for ourselves. Let’s go back to the scriptures and study and study, and study.”

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 55:29 And so I was taught young to ask questions and find answers in the scriptures and through prayer. Personal revelation was very important to both of my parents. I remember knocking on the doors of my father’s office and him not answering for sometimes a half an hour, and coming out. And I realized later that it was him praying because I could learn to recognize a little red dot on his forehead from his hand being there. And my dad pled for revelation on how to raise his children. And my mother was the same way. I came home many times when my mom was washing dishes, but I knew that she was pondering on the things of God. It was just clear.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 56:08 So, as I went out throughout my life, and I became more educated, maybe in the world’s terms of education and went through my master’s and PhD programs, I put the gospel to the test. I understood what it was like to be single, I understood what it was like to be educated, I understood what it was like to be alone. And the gospel of Jesus Christ kept me from being too lonely. I saw the blessings of living the gospel. And I also saw the reality of understanding that doctrine really is what makes sense, that Satan and the world would love to confuse women. They would love to compare the women of the Church with the women of the world. They would love to in a sense dilute what is most significant and the roles of women in life.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 56:59 But as we study and stay close to the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Lord keeps what’s important, important in our minds, in our hearts. The temple especially has been an avenue where I have received revelation, and the Lord has confirmed to me in such a way that it would be harder for me not to believe than to believe. I’ve had too many answers to prayer, I have had too many broken hearts healed, I have had too many confusions clarified, etc, etc, etc. And so, as a woman in these positions, I have recognized that the more questions I ask, the more I’ve come to know God. The more I’ve struggled, the more God has shown himself to me.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 57:44 The more I’ve paid a price, the more he has answered that call. So to me, I guess it’s just a matter of reality for me. God has made himself known to me, and God has made himself known through his gospel. Intellectually, the more I study, the more I learn. And that is exactly the same way with the gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s interesting with the priesthood, Elder McConkie says that the only way we can learn about priesthood is through the Spirit. And that’s true. You can read every book and every manual on the topic, but unless the Spirit is testifying and teaching you truth, you’re not going to understand it.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 58:17 I’m skimming the surface of the priesthood and I’ve studied it for years, but I know I’m skimming the surface because the Lord has made it very clear that I know very little. And I think that is the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We know very little, but I know enough to know that God is our Father, that we have Heavenly Parents, that Jesus is the Christ. There’s no question. So yeah, sometimes things are frustrating, but nothing would be more frustrating than leaving truth for me. I love truth, and I have found it here.

Hank Smith: 58:47 Thank you so much. We are so glad we had you back and that you accepted our invitation to come back

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 58:57 A very different podcast this time, and Section 84 and the priesthood, isn’t it?

John Bytheway: 59:01 Yeah. But we still want you to come back again.

Dr. Barbara Morgan …: 59:05 Well, I love and appreciate you guys. Thank you for all you’re doing.

John Bytheway: 59:07 Oh, thank you.

Hank Smith: 59:08 You’re very kind to us and we love having you here. We want to thank Dr. Barbara Morgan Gardner for her time. We want to thank all of you for taking time, and listening, and watching. We’re grateful for your support. Thank you to our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorensen, and our amazing production crew. John, we have a crew who takes this and makes it what it is. And we couldn’t without them.

John Bytheway: 59:36 I know. I just sit here and nod thoughtfully, and these other people do all the work.

Hank Smith: 59:40 Yeah. It’s wonderful. David Perry is one of them, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilson, Kyle Nelson, Will Stoughton, and Maria Hilton. Thank you to that wonderful team. And we hope you will join us on our next episode of followHIM.