John Bytheway: 00:00 We now continue with part two of Doctrine and Covenants, Section 63 with Dr. Lynne Wilson.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 00:08 Verse 31, I counted up dozens of times where the Lord commands his people, “I do not want you to kill. If you’re shedding blood, that is Satan’s plan, and that is not my way.” In fact, in Section 98, there were 10 times, the Lord says, “I don’t want you to fight. I want you to proclaim peace.” Then in Section 103, “We are a people of peace.” In Section 105 and Section 57 and Section… Here it is beautifully in verse 31 of Section 63, “You are forbidden to shed blood.”

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 00:40 The gift of life is the Lord’s to give and to the Lord’s to take away, and let us never interfere with either of those. I feel like the Lord has already set them up, if they would have followed his counsel. When you talked about the land of Zion, do you remember back up in verse 24, He says, “Don’t come too fast. I don’t want any confusion. I don’t want any pestilence, and we don’t want to overwhelm the locals. Just do this in an orderly fashion.” If we would have followed that one thing, it might’ve helped, and we, meaning, the bodies of the church. I don’t know.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 01:15 Then of course, as He comes down here, He’s saying, when you’re working with your neighbors, don’t be angry with them. These poor saints are so excited to get there. They’re saying things like, “Oh, we’re going to take over this whole area. This is going to be a new Jerusalem. We’re getting rid of all your houses of ill repute. We’re getting rid of all your money making. The Lord’s going to change this. We’re taking over.” That just didn’t bide too well, let alone the differences on their religious feelings. But economically, they really made some enemies, unfortunately.

Hank Smith: 01:44 Their political feelings, everything is opposite. You mentioned there about the shedding of blood and you made a statement about, that’s the Lord’s territory. That’s interesting, because just a few verses earlier, he had talked about adultery, which is giving a life, which is also the lord’s territory, right?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 02:01 Oh that’s beautiful.

Hank Smith: 02:01 I remember Elder Holland talking about that. Surely, what does he say, John? You probably know better than me. Surely the things God cares about the most are how one gets into this world-

John Bytheway: 02:09 And how one leaves.

Hank Smith: 02:11 … gets out.

John Bytheway: 02:11 Okay. When I was on my mission and we had to memorize word for word, our discussions, one of them about the commandments, I can still remember how we started that. God has many powers, and among the powers He values most is the power to give and to take life. He’s forbidden us the power to take life, but has shared with us the power to create life by allowing us to bring spirits into the world.

John Bytheway: 02:32 I remembered that same idea, the mileposts along the plan of salvation, the way you are born, the way you die, and that those are important to him. I like that, Hank, the bringing life into the world without his authorization or taking life without his authorization.

Hank Smith: 02:53 God is the same, isn’t he? He’s told for how long? “Thou shall not commit adultery. Thou shall not kill.” It’s just a consistent message.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 03:01 That’s what I said, there’s five of the 10 commandments in this section. If you go a section before and a section after, you get all 10, a few before and a few after, you get all 10.

John Bytheway: 03:13 I was going to mention, just because I thought it was interesting, here’s the lord telling me to buy land. Well, doesn’t the Earth belong to you? He says in verse 25, “I, the Lord, hold it in my own hands. Nevertheless, I, the Lord render unto Caesar the things which are Caesars.” He’s like, “Listen, the whole Earth is mine, but let’s do this, as not to overwhelm the locals.” Like you said, I thought that was interesting.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 03:37 In the same Section, a few verses later, he’s talking to our dear Newel K. Whitney, and he talks about his store. Then he says, “I mean, the store. It’s not your store.” The stewardship is the Lord has given you a responsibility. It’s not your store. It’s not your land. It’s the Lord’s land.

John Bytheway: 03:58 I read right past that and didn’t get the insight, his store or in other words, the store.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 04:05 The store, it’s the Lord’s.

John Bytheway: 04:07 That’s in verse 42.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 04:08 Well, I just feel like the law of consecration is so important. I feel like I’m living it every day of my life, as long as I’m remembering the gifts that God has given me, our stewardships to build His kingdom. Whether that is going to work or whatever I’m doing in school or with my family, or my neighborhood, or my community, whatever I’m doing, you have to have that mentality, I am a servant of God here trying to build his kingdom with his gifts. We are just stewards. We are not owners of anything.

Hank Smith: 04:40 Absolutely.

John Bytheway: 04:41 Let’s go to verse 34. I’m curious to know.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 04:43 There it is, second coming, right there. There you go. The saints also shall hardly escape. He is warning them, this is not going to come easily. “I, the Lord am with them and I will come down from Heaven, and consume the wicked with unquenchable fire.” But then in the next verse is what I was referring to before where he says, “But not yet.” Don’t think the second coming is in 1831. But not yet, by and by, as you mentioned before.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 05:18 But he goes on even verse 37, I love this, “Every man should take righteousness in his hands and faithfulness upon his loins and warning voice.” I just want to mention one little thing about the fact that we self-correct in King James or biblical language whenever it says Him, but I found this wonderful passage by Joseph. Do you remember the letter he writes in Liberty Jail, that becomes Section 121, 122 and 123? Not the whole letter is canonized, but there’s a portion of that letter where he says, “Now, brethren,” and he says, “By the way, when I say brethren, I mean, men, women and children. I mean, disciples of Jesus Christ.”

Hank Smith: 06:01 Wow.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 06:03 See, Joseph is our first feminist. I feel like he really is onboard to help the sisters more than their culture did at that time.

John Bytheway: 06:16 Interesting. I’m glad you mentioned that. That’s just a part that’s not in the Doctrine and Covenants, but was part of the letter that he wrote out of Liberty Jail.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 06:26 You can find it in https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/

John Bytheway: 06:31 Awesome. I’m going to get that.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 06:34 I love also in this little section when he starts talking in verse 40, “I want you to give as much money as you can to Zion.” These people were on poverty row. They were already giving away property and trying to get ready for other things. I’m so in awe at the generosity of these fast offerings of the way they were trying to live the law of consecration.

John Bytheway: 07:02 Who is Titus Billings? Do we know much about him?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 07:05 The thing that I remember is it was more Morley’s farm, and he was called to go down to Missouri. It says in one record that he didn’t want to be tempted by too much materialism. So, he said, “I’ll just give it to Titus Billings.” Then Titus is the one who oversees this land, but then Titus doesn’t keep it. After a few months, the Lord says, “Okay, you need to sell this property now.” Actually, if this is August 30th, the property is already being sold by September.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 07:38 Joseph leaves in September, and Sydney leave to go down to the Johnson’s farm. Even though Titus has the property for a short period of time, he doesn’t keep it. The Lord’s calling him to use to consecrate this land to go to Zion.

Hank Smith: 07:55 Lynne, you’re so great. You can take a section like this that I was like, oh, what are we going to talk about? And you’re, like, “Oh look at this, look at this, look at this.”

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 08:01 Well, to me, it is just so powerful that it’s such a great section on preparing for the millennium, because I feel like we are 200 years closer than they were, or 190 years closer than they are. The signs of the times are… I too have taught the book of Revelation repeatedly, and I feel like we can cut the calamities of the earth short if we would start following these commandments here in Section 63 on how to establish a Zion people, how to prepare a Zion land and how to become ready for our savior’s return.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 08:40 49 is another one that he’s still talking about this. “Blessed are those that die in the Lord.” Of course, in that day and age, you lose 50% of your kids before they’re three years old. Death is so much common. You’re constantly in pain, whether it’s a toothache or a corn on your foot, you just don’t know how to deal with things the same way, let alone strep throat and cholera.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 09:06 I just feel like they’re constantly dealing with death in a… As Susan Sims Black always jokes that the best paid person in Navos is the person who builds the coffins and takes care of you, the mortician. In verse 49, this is actually the 20th time in this section that he spent talking about the millennium and he continues on from verse 49, clear down to verse 54, where he starts talking about how old things will become new, that the Lord will come. If we die in the Lord, we will be able to join him as well and inherit the holy city.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 09:41 Here’s another verse where he uses the dual message of the holy city now on Earth and the holy city there. It’s just beautiful because I feel like with our prophet emphasizing the need to have our homes, temples, and our sacred spaces are all around us that we don’t… Also, even going back to President Kimball, make Zion wherever you are, don’t necessarily have to come to a different country.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 10:10 But we see that council right here in verse 49 of Section 63. This is where we get the twinkling. This is the Section where we talk about you’ll get twinkled at the age of a man, at 72. I just noticed.

Hank Smith: 10:24 The thing you hear about when you’re a kid. Yeah.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 10:26 Yeah, this is verse 51, you get twinkled. Verse 53 is the verse I was looking for before, speaking after the manner of the lord. Don’t get your hopes up if you think it’s tomorrow. But the 10 virgins is the next verse, it’s verse 54. That’s where we get it. It’s just a short little clip on it, but he’s already taught us that the oil is the spirit. If you go back and look at the previous Section 45, verse 36 and Section 33, verse 17 and 18, he’s already taught us a lot about how to interpret this scripture.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 11:05 Do you remember when Joseph Smith said, “The way you understand a parable is by going back and looking at the question?”

Hank Smith: 11:10 What drew it out, yeah.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 11:11 I went back and looked at the virgins, the 10 virgins and the question actually is in Matthew 24, and it’s tell us about the signs of your second coming. It fits in beautifully to this people who are trying to build Zion, and who want to know how to become a Zion people. They’re so eager to learn, but of course, we’re human, we’re mortals. They’ve been baptized almost a year. We have a long ways to go, we’re still working on it.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 11:42 But here’s that beautiful verse. I think the thing that is sweet about in verse 54, about this parable that we can learn more about than we learn otherwise, is that I will send mine angels to pluck them out. The Lord has his mighty forces, his hosts of the Heavens working the entire separation of the righteous and the wicked is a process.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 12:11 But I just have to tell you, as a child, I was so offended by this parable. Weren’t you offended? Why don’t they share their oil?

John Bytheway: 12:17 Why can’t they share, yeah.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 12:20 I was very grateful for President Kimball.

Hank Smith: 12:22 We were taught to share, right?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 12:23 Yeah, exactly. I was very grateful for President Kimball’s talk, you can’t share a tiding slip. How do you share a testimony that you’ve become… The gift of charity that you’ve worked on your whole life? But I really feel like the saints are feeling, day-by-day, drop by drop, we are becoming more Christ-like. Our leaders are taking us there, our scriptures are taking us there, but I feel Come Follow Me is a giant step in helping us become.

John Bytheway: 12:58 You used the word become three times just now. When I try to teach that parable to my students, I remember President Oaks has taught the challenge to become. I can’t share, and you can’t share what you’ve become, I can’t say, I need 30 years of your honesty. Could you give that to me, please? That’s why I love that ever since hearing that parable as a child and not getting why they don’t share, things like President Kimball and Elder Oaks saying, it’s what you’ve become, it’s not shareable. I can’t give you that. Thank you for using that word. I’d love that President Oaks talked about, it’s not just what we know and it’s not even just what we do, it’s what we’ve become.

Hank Smith: 13:48 When I teach Matthew 25, and the parable of the 10 virgins, there’s a point that we skip over that I really like it’s in Matthew 25:4, it says, “But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.” I’ve often related this to, and I don’t know if the savior meant it this way, obviously, but we’ve got our lamp in our oil, that’s seen by everybody else. Then we’ve got oil in our vessel, which is kind of private, no one else sees that.

Hank Smith: 14:16 I think you’ve got to have your public spirituality, that’s important as being an example, let your light so shine, but you also need this private relationship with the spirit. It can’t all just be a public relationship with God. Because Lynne, I think you’d absolutely agree, 99.5% of what we experience with the divine is private. To me, I want to have oil in the vessel that nobody knows about, but me.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 14:50 The Lord really, really, really, really, really wanted these saints to know this parable. Seven times-

John Bytheway: 14:57 Evidently.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 14:58 … in the doctrine covenants, evidently we just have a lot to learn from this. Even if I just look at the practices and the new Testament of what was required for a marriage ceremony and what they did. The background gives you light too, you’re coming in a happy, festive, joyous experience to come to the bride groom. As we prepare for the savior’s coming, I really appreciate Elder Hinckley’s reminder that it is a great and dreadful day of the Lord.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 15:29 I go back to what my brother said in my blessing for my eyes, rejoice, and you will see the hand of the Lord in your life. Don’t emphasize the sad, be of good cheer in your hardest times.

Hank Smith: 15:46 I remember one of my absolute favorite talks of general conference ever was 2005, Elder Bednar said, I gave a talk, first talk in general conference for him, it was the tender mercies of the Lord. That talk to me, it changed everything, for me, when it comes to you can have peace, knowing that you and the Lord are on the same page, and in this difficult, difficult world that we face, you need that peace to know that the Lord is pleased with you.

John Bytheway: 16:20 That phrase has become part of our conversations. We talk about tender mercies now all the time, ever since that talk. It’s always been a scriptural term, but he brought to our awareness kind of. Okay, this is an intriguing story. Sidney Rigdon is supposed to write a description of Zion. It doesn’t go very well. The part I underlined, his writing is not acceptable, because I’ve had that kind of comment from [inaudible 00:16:47] book a few times. Okay, that’s just a joke, but-

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 16:51 It’s not a joke for me.

Hank Smith: 16:53 I was listening to that. I was like, “Wait, what did you say??

John Bytheway: 16:56 I’m wondering, do we have his first draft of his description?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 17:02 Wouldn’t that be a fun thing to-

John Bytheway: 17:04 Just to see, why wasn’t it very good? What’s wrong with it? So the Lord gives him another chance?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 17:09 I do not know if we have that draft. I have no idea.

Hank Smith: 17:13 Many people are scared for the second coming. It’s this almost as maybe a youth or as a parent, you’re going, this gives me anxiety. What would you say to someone who has a lot of anxiety over the second coming? We did talk about it being a great and dreadful day of the Lord. Anything else that you might add?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 17:36 When my little Peter was three years old, he was learning how to do mathematics. He thought it was so amazing that he could multiply anything times infinity and get infinity. “Mommy, I know what 572 times infinity is.” He was just so cute. That’s the way I feel about preparing for the second coming. If we are joining with the savior, it doesn’t matter, it’s going to be tremendous. He is infinity. Anything we can give, anything we can do if we are working on his team, if we are, as our prophet calls, on his battalion, if we are serving God, if we are part of that… Going to Harry Potter, I just feel like the seventh book of Harry Potter, we are fighting the dark arts, but if we are on Christ’s team, our burdens will be made light, and the things that we suffer will be put in perspective, and we have the perspective of infinity. Anything that we do will be made okay by God.

Hank Smith: 18:44 I like that. To let people know that, hey, we’re in the middle of it and you’re doing good. It’s not like it’s still out there. We’re well on the way-

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 18:54 We’re well on the way.

Hank Smith: 18:55 I have a statement from Elder Holland that I’ve always shown to students who say, what will happen when the second coming is here? I’ll say, BYU speeches of September 12th, 2004, the promised second coming of the savior began with the first vision of the prophet Joseph Smith in 1820, that he was back, and we’re in the middle of it right now, and we’re doing great. We’re doing great.

John Bytheway: 19:21 Yeah. I’ve actually heard it referred to as second comings because there will be so many. The first vision was maybe the first, and how many more were shared visions? I love how that helps me to know that Joseph Smith was not the only one, there were others that shared visions of his other comings.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 19:44 Well, and even his mother saw the Lord, way before Joseph was born and hundreds and hundreds of other people saw the Lord before Joseph was born. It was Joseph’s first vision, but the Heavens had not been closed to many great people throughout the history of the world. The Lord has answered his disciple’s prayers, regardless of which dispensation or if they are between dispensations, the Lord still, I feel knows his children by name.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 20:14 Joseph Sr. had his seven dreams, and Asael, as well as Lucy Mack’s dad, he doesn’t become converted to the savior until later in his life, but both of them felt like the Lord had come to them and spoke to them and given them great comfort and hope that they not only were part of his elect, is how they described it in those days, but they would have posterity that would also change and bless the world. But you’re referring Asael’s statement about Joseph or about his posterity.

John Bytheway: 20:49 Right, his posterity, my posterity.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 20:51 He didn’t know it was Joseph, but yeah. I feel like those two records, Asael’s short, short, short message to his children, a few dozen pages and the little tiny pamphlet by brother Mack are just beautiful examples of the religious enthusiasm of the age and the sincerity of these disciples of Christ that filled New England at the time.

Hank Smith: 21:21 Let’s look at this verse 57, this is one that I noticed. He said, “Verily, I say unto you, that those who desire in their hearts in meekness to warn sinners to repentance, let them be ordained under this power.” When I looked at that, I thought, there is a a side of us that wants to lash out and say, repent, or suffer. But what do you think the word… When he says those who desire to in their hearts in meekness to warn sinners, to repentance, how do you walk that line, do you think of, yes. I want to be truthful, I want to help, but meekness seems… John, what did you call meekness, great-

John Bytheway: 22:03 Great power under complete control. S. Michael Wilcox gave an article about the beatitudes and he phrased it that way or he heard it phrased that way.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 22:15 I love the way Joseph combines the idea of power and meekness. Well, the Lord taught Joseph in Liberty Jail, that no power or authority can or ought to be maintained, except by meekness, long suffering patience. If we want to facilitate God’s power and I’m using this very broad term of God’s priesthood power here, because Joseph has just said, a few paragraphs in that letter difference, when I say brethren, I mean men and women and children.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 22:44 If we want to access God’s power in our life, which is God’s priesthood, then we have got to do it through gentleness, meekness, and love and faith. I feel that God’s power can only be accessed if we’re going to do it with his key and his key is meekness.

Hank Smith: 23:04 Let me see if I can get this quote right, you guys will help me. He says, “When persons manifest the least kindness and love to me, oh, what great power it has over my heart. While the opposite course has a tendency to harrow up harsh feelings and depress the human mind.” That’s just absolutely beautiful. I’ve done both. I’ve done the loving side, I’ve gone too harsh, and he’s exactly right.

John Bytheway: 23:31 It’s our general conference, Elder Stevenson talked about kindness with the rabbits, and then after that, Elder Gong talked about kindness as well. I’ve heard the phrase a million times, and I think in missionary work, people don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care. Maybe this is part of that warning and meekness.

John Bytheway: 23:58 Also, Hank you’ve talked about, we’ve all talked about repentance, and Elder Holland is saying it’s the most hopeful and encouraging word in the whole Christian vocabulary. When I’m taught by his students I say, “If I say repent, put in the chat window the first word that comes to your mind, it’s usually not hope, encouragement.” Any way.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 24:23 My daughter says repentance is self-love. She was in high school, and she said, repentance is self-love.

Hank Smith: 24:29 I love that. Repentance is self-love. We have a commandment to improve. That’s not a bad commandment, right?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 24:37 No.

John Bytheway: 24:38 Verse 58, “This is a day of warning and not a day of many words.”

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 24:42 Second time he’s repeated that in this section.

Hank Smith: 24:45 Is he saying, “Hey, be quick about it because you don’t have a lot of time?”

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 24:50 Well, I’m convinced that if it is a day of warning and that the gospel has been restored, and if we are servants of God, when we are baptized, we put on his jersey and we work on his team. Sometimes my prayers, I forget that, and I say, “Hey, could you help me, and could you do this and this and this?” But it’s actually, oh, I’m your servant, what should I be doing today? It’s a day of warning, that means, that’s our job.

Hank Smith: 25:16 Yeah. Absolutely. I remember one of my favorite quotes about the second coming and it always comes back to me when I think of it is the second coming is not a day of choosing, it is a day you find out what you have chosen. This is before, all this takes place before, and I like that. I think that fits. It’s not a day of choosing, the second coming is when it’s right in front of you, the choosing is over. What would President Monson say?

John Bytheway: 25:46 When the time for decision has come, the time for preparation has passed.

Hank Smith: 25:50 Yeah. This is from, it’s called Preparation For the Second Coming. President Oaks in April of 2004, and he says… I sometimes use this in my class. What if the day of his coming were tomorrow? If we knew we would meet the Lord tomorrow, you knew it, tomorrow, through our premature death or through his unexpected coming, what would we do today? What confessions would we make? What practices would we discontinue? What accounts would we settle? What forgiveness would we extend? What testimonies would we bear?

Hank Smith: 26:25 Then you sit on that for a minute. If it was really true, if I knew, for a fact, the Lord is coming tomorrow, what would I do today? Then he says this, if we would do all those things then, why not now? Why not seek peace, while peace be obtained? If our lamps of preparation, going back to the parable of the 10 virgins are drawn down, let us start immediately to replenish them. You can do that at any time, you can start immediately to replenish your lamp. You don’t have to wait, you don’t have to go see the bishop before you… You can just fall down on your knees or you can open the scriptures and start replenishing that lamp.

Hank Smith: 27:04 He says, yes, we need to make both temporal and spiritual preparation for the events of the prophesied second coming. He says this, a 72 hour kit of temporal supplies may prove valuable for earthly challenges. But as the foolish versions learned to their sorrow, a 24 hour kit of spiritual preparation is of greater and more enduring value.

Hank Smith: 27:27 To me, when I read this section, Lynne, one thing I’m hearing is act now, act now, do the things that you know, you should be doing now.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 27:36 That’s beautiful.

Hank Smith: 27:37 Start making confessions and discontinuing practices and settle accounts and offer forgiveness, bear testimony. Let’s get started today.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 27:48 I love the way he combines this. It’s one of the 10 commandments, not to use the Lord’s name in vain in verses 60 to 63 or so. But I feel like it’s also a sin of commission and a sin of omission. The way he says in verse 62, those who use the name of the Lord and use it in vain, having not authority. I think of the way I close my prayers, am I adding on the savior’s name to complete the prayer, or am I using his name in an honorary and humble and meek fashion of referring to the savior who has redeemed us?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 28:32 I love the idea that if I am a baptized member of the church, even if I’m not serving as a full-time missionary, am I using his name in vain, because I have taken his name upon me? If I am using my time inappropriately, or if I’m using my thoughts in a negative way, or if I’m allowing other priorities to come into my life, whether it’s worldliness or just sloth, whatever you want to choose, am I using the name of the Lord in vain?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 29:06 I just think it has such a beautiful, broad application beyond just perhaps addressing our savior, the name of our God in an unholy context. It also has this far reaching application of when we are ever addressing our Lord or representing our Lord, is it from the heart?

John Bytheway: 29:32 Thank you. I look at verse 64 in that same spirit. Remember that which cometh from above is sacred and must be spoken care. Hank and I love to laugh and we joke a lot when we’re with one another. I hope though that we’re appropriate when it comes to things like this, because of that commandment. I’m thankful I heard Truman Madsen once say there’s a difference between being like-minded and lighthearted. I hope we’re getting that right.

Hank Smith: 30:05 I walk that line. I try to walk that line pretty well. I’ve had moments where the spirit has said, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, too much.” But what does the Lord say? “Rejoice, be happy.” We’re going to rejoice and be edified together. I like that. They’re sacred, must be spoken with care.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 30:28 It’s not just using the name of the Lord, although I do think perhaps the most important part of our prayer is the closing phrase that we use bidding our savior to take the message to our father. But I also feel like it’s such a powerful way to open up access to the spirit, is when we do not use the Lord in vain. That when we address him and when we think of him, it is with great sincerity, then we are not using him.

Hank Smith: 31:03 When we finish our statements, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. We could do that in vain, if we’re not careful.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 31:10 I think so.

Hank Smith: 31:10 Interesting.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 31:12 I feel like I have not been as careful as I could have been, sometimes-

John Bytheway: 31:18 Me too.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 31:19 … or as respectful.

John Bytheway: 31:20 I remember one student left me a voicemail and finished the voicemail that way. Then she said, “I’m so sorry, I don’t know what I was saying.” It always made me laugh.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 31:32 You must be a scary teacher.

John Bytheway: 31:34 Yeah, [inaudible 00:31:35] testimony. Also, I would say, when we take the Lord’s name upon us in our covenants, we can also do that in vain. We can take the Lord’s name in vain. I think you talked about having that jersey on and let’s not do that in vain, without meaning it.

Hank Smith: 31:55 Well, I think the backdrop of all of this is really helpful for the section to see what’s going on there. They want to know everything they can about Zion, but they’re not perfect, and the Lord has some reminders for them. In some places, it’s sounding gentle, in other places, not very gentle. Then all of this millennium stuff, which is great.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 32:23 And the parables.

Hank Smith: 32:24 Yeah. Inheritance before the Lord, in the holy city. If you die, you can still live in the holy city, maybe as you said on another level.

John Bytheway: 32:34 I want to bring up one last topic before we close this section, Lynne, and that is, he just says this in verse 66, but I think it can be just an important and peaceful and wonderful principle. These things remain to overcome through patience, that such may receive a more exceedingly and eternal weight of glory, otherwise, a greater condemnation.

John Bytheway: 32:57 Overcome through patience. I don’t know about either of you, but patience has been one of the most difficult Christ-like attributes for me to make progress on. I feel like I’ve got it, I’ve got it. Then I’m, something happens and it all blows up. Then I feel like, oh, I’ve got it. I’m really becoming more and more patient, and something happens. Lynne, can you make me patient like you?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 33:28 I know.

John Bytheway: 33:28 I don’t know if I want to pray for patience, because that might end up with-

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 33:34 Well, for me, it’s more of a matter of trusting God’s… I feel like-

Hank Smith: 33:39 Timing.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 33:40 No, a little bit different than that, because I feel like sometimes God’s timing is my preparation. So, I have got to accelerate my learning, not say, when I think of waiting on the Lord, I like to think of a… I lived in Paris, I like to think of a server waiting there for me. I’m there to take notes on exactly everything you want. I’m waiting on the Lord, I’m ready to serve you. But the Lord’s timing is so often my preparation. If I can just step back and say, “What do you want me to learn?” Then I can be more patient, because then I can do something about it. If I don’t have any ability to move forward, then I feel like the early Puritans, where you’re just paralyzed and just saying, okay, am I chosen or not? Am I one of the elect or not?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 34:21 But God wants us to act and not be acted upon. For me, patience is easier when I say, what can I learn? I want to be able to grow my seed while I am waiting. If you’re waiting on me to blossom, I’ve got to add some miracle grow here. Help me increase my faith or whatever. I feel like I can increase my patience easier when I just trust God. It’s going to be just fine, just trust God, it’s a matter of faith and hope and I totally can trust God and then I can wait, as long as I am actively learning, I don’t mind being patient.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 35:05 Now, a red light is a different story, but yeah.

Hank Smith: 35:07 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 35:08 Lynne, thank you for saying what you did about just trusting God, because I think there was, in 1995, Elder Richard G. Scott gave this talk about how our questions change. Instead of asking, why is this happening, or why is God doing this to me, or what have I done to deserve this? When we really trust God, our questions become, and you said it, what am I supposed to learn? Who can I help? How can I keep my faith in this time? I love what you said, it’s proactive, it gives us something to do.

John Bytheway: 35:41 I’m in the midst of a trial, I’m going to try to be patient, but what can I learn during this time? I saw the word patience there too, and I thought of Section 4 of the Doctrine and Covenants, the missionary section, we often call it, that speaks of patience. Hank, I’m with you sometimes. I’m, well, wait a minute, I thought we’re supposed to have a sense of urgency and then other times, oh, and be patient, and which one is it? Don’t use many words, but be patient to meekness. I guess that’s one of those where, thankfully, we have the gift of the holy ghost that can apply to individual circumstances, I suppose.

Hank Smith: 36:21 Absolutely. For me, patience, I remember there’s a talk from Elder Uchtdorf on patience, there’s another talk from a General 30 Robert. he was the military. Do you guys remember, he said-

John Bytheway: 36:34 Oaks, Robert C. Oaks.

Hank Smith: 36:35 Robert Oaks, yeah. There was another talk by Robert C. Oaks on patience. I listen to those over and over and over, trying to just soak it in, helped me become more patient. Looking back over a long period of time, I can see that I’ve made that improvement. It’s those day-to-day, week-to-week, why am I not making improvements? I remember, it was Elder Oaks, but this was Robert Oaks, who he said that one of his friends owned a motorcycle shop. Do you guys remember this story? One of his sons, they had lined up brand new, shiny motorcycles. One of his sons thought he’d jumped on the first one and start it up.

Hank Smith: 37:16 So, he did, and then pushed his luck too far and decided to turn it off, and he jumped off the motorcycle and knocked it into the next one, which knocked it to the next one, the next one, the next one, denting all of them, denting all of them with the paint and that chrome taken off. He looked over at his dad, and his dad looked over his desk, and he said, “Well, we better fix one up and sell it, so we can pay to fix the rest of them.” That was about it. That was about it. I thought, “Okay, I’ve got to get that down. I’ve got to get that down, overcome through patience.

John Bytheway: 37:57 Let me know when you do that and then come and give me lessons, okay?

Hank Smith: 38:00 I will.

John Bytheway: 38:02 I just quit the motorcycle business altogether.

Hank Smith: 38:04 Oh goodness. But I love those examples of Christ-like patience. All right, Lynne, anything else in the section before we… Anything we didn’t cover that you’re like, “Oh, Hank, we got to hit this.”

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 38:17 I am just amazed as I think about how applicable each verse of this section is to those saints in 1831. Yet, as I read it on my own, in conjunction with Come Follow Me, each verse was very applicable to me. The scripture has this wonderful transporting ability. If you want to hear God’s voice, take a quiet, sacred hour and spend it in the scriptures and you will find messages just for you.

Hank Smith: 38:53 That’s beautiful. Thank you. Lynne, what keeps you on the covenant path? What is this restoration and gospel done for you, personally?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 39:04 I believe because of the witness of the spirit, that I first started feeling when I was seven years old, when I asked and again, every other time that I have asked and sought in humility, but the thing that keeps me with my toes deep in the sand and my roots growing down deeper is, I really like comparing what is different about the book of Mormon’s message on patience, rather than the biblical message on patience? What do I believe this, compared to our other Christian friends or colleagues, or the Judaic, or the Islamic faith traditions?

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 39:49 I am blown away at the truth and validity of not only the doctrines, but the principles and the way that is carried out in our church. I believe, as Eugene England said, the church is as true as the gospel. I believe from a witness of the spirit, that my taproot comes from studying the scriptures and comparing them.

Hank Smith: 40:15 Yeah, that is wonderful. John, another episode of followHIM has come and gone, and isn’t it wonderful that we get to be here? What did Peter say? It is good for us-

John Bytheway: 40:30 It is good for us to be here. Understatement of all time. But I love that he would say that because, and I think for our young people, I love to tell, have you ever had the opposite? I shouldn’t be here. Well, you know what to do, stand in holy places, get out of there. But for Peter to say that, and I feel like that every week. Thank you, Lynne, I am so excited to go to Book of Mormon central and Doctrine and Covenant Central and listen to more of your enthusiasm and excitement for this.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 41:02 Well, I’m just honored to have been here with you. It’s been a sheer joy. Anytime we can testify of the gospel of Jesus Christ, it’s a good day.

Hank Smith: 41:10 It’s a good day. I love that.

John Bytheway: 41:11 It is. Thank you. What I love too about you, Lynne, is you have gone to not church schools to get all of your degrees, did I get that right? All of them.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 41:22 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 41:23 Added that perspective to it. I love that, I think it adds some depths to our guests and to what they’ve said, what they’ve shared. Thank you for your preparation and for being here.

Hank Smith: 41:37 Wonderful.

Dr. Lynne Wilso…: 41:38 God bless you both. Thank you for this invitation.

Hank Smith: 41:42 We want to thank Dr. Lynne Wilson for joining us today. We want to thank all of you for listening and taking your time to be with us. We’re grateful for your support. We really are. Thank you to our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorenson, our production crew, David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilson, Kyle Nelson, Will Stoughton and Maria Hilton. We hope you’ll join us next time on followHIM.