Hank Smith: 00:01 Welcome to FollowHIM, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I’m Hank Smith.

John Bytheway: 00:09 And I’m John Bytheway. We love to learn. We love to laugh, We want to learn and laugh with you as together we follow him.

Hank Smith: 00:20 Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of FollowHIM. My name is Hank Smith. I am your host. I am here with my beautifully footed co-host John Bytheway. John, you have beautiful feet because Isaiah says, “How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of them that bringeth good tidings.” That’s you, John. You are a beautifully footed person because you bringeth good tidings.

John Bytheway: 00:46 Honestly say, I’ve never been called that before, but I’m gelling with my Dr. Scholl’s today –

Hank Smith: 00:53 Have beautiful feet.

Hank Smith: 00:57 Hey John, we are in another section of Isaiah and we needed an expert to join us. Who is here with us today?

John Bytheway: 01:05 Well, this is fun, Hank because years ago we worked on a book with a bunch of friends, this Suit Up book in 2013 for preparing for a mission, and Jennifer joined us on this book. We’re with Dr. Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt. Let me just share a little bit of information with our listeners about her.

John Bytheway: 01:24 She earned a PhD from Arizona State University in educational psychology, focusing on lifespan developmental psychology of women in ritual contexts. Her passion is to learn and live the gospel of Jesus Christ from the ground up, has taken her around the world from rural villages of Ethiopia to the floors of primary classrooms. Her happy place is in the temple. That’s a great happy place. She was a seminary and institute instructor for 10 years prior to joining the religious education faculty at BYU and now teaches at BYU- Idaho. She’s an author and public speaker. She’s presented for BYU Women’s Conference Education Week. She currently serves as the Relief Society President in her stake.

John Bytheway: 02:07 With 50 years worth of collective dating experience, she and her husband Jed met and married at the age of 41. They love life in Rexburg, Idaho. They have an eight year old daughter and a six year old son. You can follow Jennifer. She has a blog called Connecting with Christ and one of her more recent books, Living Your Covenants Every Day. She’s spoken at BYU Easter conference. All of those you can find online. But we’re really happy to see you again, Jennifer. Welcome, thanks for joining us today.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 02:37 Thanks. It is so good to see you guys. It’s fun to be together.

John Bytheway: 02:41 Yeah, we’re grateful you’re here. And I would be remiss if I didn’t do a shout out to my sister Jennifer Johnson, who adores Jennifer Brinkerhoff Platt, Dr. Platt. Just adores her, and I do as well. For my sister, it’s this short of idolatry. A little bit too much. Jennifer, hello from Jennifer. And Jennifer, if you’re out there listening, I did my due diligence and said hi to your favorite person.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 03:08 She did tell me to make sure to tell you that she is my favorite person too, over the two of you.

John Bytheway: 03:13 Okay, I understand. I have beautiful feet, but other than that, there’s not a whole lot.

Hank Smith: 03:23 Hey Jennifer, we are in the book of Isaiah and so many members of the church, when they hear Isaiah, they think, Oh no, I can’t do it. So we’re counting on you to walk us through these chapters, Isaiah 50 through 57, and to show us how they really can shine for readers.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 03:41 I think that’s important. One of my gifts is to be ordinary and to be pretty simple and clear, and I hope that we do that today. One thing that I want to bring our viewers attention to is the timing. The timing of when we are studying Come Follow Me. We’re in the week prior to general conference. And for us to think about that, my invitation would be to use Isaiah 50 through 57 as a primer and a preparation. That this is really a chance to have a direct experience with Jesus Christ to prepare us for general conference.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 04:16 In fact, I loved the way that President Nelson in his last talk, he pled with us. He’s stunning in the way he pleads with us to give God a fair share of our time, and he promised that as we do, we would see positive spiritual momentum. And so I would think that if nothing else, let’s invite Isaiah to tutor us and to help us to be prepared to receive his living prophet and to be prepared for Jesus Christ.

John Bytheway: 04:45 I love that. What a great intro. What do you usually tell your students before they study Isaiah? Is there any background? Is there anything that you’re like, here’s what you need to know before you read Isaiah chapters? Do you ever do that or should we just jump right in?

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 04:59 No, you bet with the Isaiah chapters, one is to take it slow. The sweetness of Isaiah is in the slow, and so to not feel frustrated by the number of chapters and to be satisfied to just take a couple of verses. So take it slow, read it out loud. And so that’s where the family study becomes so powerful, and to use the Book of Mormon. Our chapters today are in the Book of Mormon, and the greatest commentary on Isaiah is in the Book of Mormon.

John Bytheway: 05:31 We’ve got a great setup here. Want to go to 50? You want to start in 51?

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 05:36 Actually can I take a minute? I want to talk a minute about this conference prep. I’ve had this really sweet thought that as I’ve been going through Isaiah 50 through 57, and preparing for general conference, that I’m seeing these really powerful connections. That what we’re studying today has to do with the gathering of Israel. It’s very much about the gathering of Israel, and that’s President Nelson’s focus. It’s every prophet’s focus.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 06:03 Go back a little bit to April 2017. In President Monson’s last talk, he invited the church to read the Book of Mormon. He said, “I want you to study and ponder the Book of Mormon every day. And as we do so, we will be in a position to hear the voice of the spirit, to resist temptation, to overcome doubt and fear, and to receive heaven’s help in our lives.” Now, six months later, in the October general conference, President Nelson, the president of the quorum, reported on his experience of reading the Book of Mormon.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 06:37 Here’s what President Nelson said, and the talk was called The Book of Mormon, what would your life be like without it? “Since President Monson’s challenge six months ago, I’ve tried to follow his counsel. Among other things, I’ve made lists of what the Book of Mormon is, what it affirms, what it refutes, what it fulfills, what it clarifies and what it reveals.” As we’re studying Isaiah, that’s exactly what the Book of Mormon does. Then he goes on, “Looking at the Book of Mormon through these lenses has been an insightful and inspiring exercise. I recommend it to each of you.” Well, it wasn’t but a few months later that President Nelson’s now the prophet and president of the church. He’s sitting at the Salt Lake Temple pleading with us to get on the covenant path, and to stay.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 07:30 Now, we’ve all been pretty thrilled to watch what we might call changes, but they’re actually just clarifications of truths that we find in the Book of Mormon. I’ve been paying attention to this over these years and saying, I wonder if President Nelson’s experience with the Book of Mormon was his preparation to be the president, ministering, the name of the church, worship in the home. So many things that we’re emphasizing and focusing on now, are found in the Book of Mormon.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 08:04 So my point is, if I can piece this together, one, even the prophet is benefiting from general conference and obeying the prophet. Here’s President Nelson obeying President Monson. Two, the Book of Mormon’s going to give us so much clarity. That there’s going to be this focus and direct truth that’s going to bring us to Jesus Christ like no other thing. And so when we’re studying Isaiah, I would say even, I’m old school, I use paper scripture still, go into the scriptures and before you even start, mark every Book of Mormon reference. Go to the chapter heading of chapter 50 and you’re going to see that this is in the Book of Mormon. This is Jacob. And so write Jacob in there.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 08:51 Get into Isaiah 53 and you’re going to see Mosiah 14, mark it and say, This is Abinadi. And then you get to the next, and here’s Jesus himself, that he’s going to give that to us in Isaiah 54 that here’s Jesus himself. So we can take the Book of Mormon and side by side say, let’s study this. Let’s see what they have to teach us and how they’re going to be the very best commentary. There’s just no better commentary than the Book of Mormon.

John Bytheway: 09:24 I love that we have a prophet commenting on a prophet. And so when Abinadi quotes Isaiah 53, and we’ll talk about this, and then afterwards gives us additional insight, it’s like, oh, how wonderful is this to have Abinadi comment on that. But I want to go back to what you said about President Nelson because he talked about, if I remember right, they even showed a picture of President Nelson, it looked like out on a patio, just with his Book of Mormon out and his yellow pad and everything. And I thought, look at that. Here is President Nelson listening to President Monson and just doing it literally. And it kind of made me feel like I need to take that as seriously. Like you just said, here’s President Nelson listening to President Monson. I’m going to do it. The prophet just said this.

John Bytheway: 10:11 What I pointed out to my students, that talk October 2017, is that if you look in the conference edition of the Ensign or online at that talk, at the end we have, it just says President Nelson’s Book of Mormon lists. And they’re all there, bullet points. The Book of Mormon confirms, and then he has these items. The Book of Mormon refutes, and then he has a bunch of items. Boy, go find that because it wasn’t part of the talk, but it’s in the conference issue. And you can see the Book of Mormon confirms, refutes, reveals new things, clarifies, and those bullet points are really helpful. To have President Nelson comment on, this is why we’ve got the Book of Mormon is a treasure, at the end of that talk. You have to go to the Ensign or online to find it. It’s now called Liahona, but then it was the Ensign.

Hank Smith: 11:02 We can link that in our show notes I bet John, followhim.co. I bet we could find a link to that so it could be easy for people to find.

John Bytheway: 11:09 I use that to begin my Religion 275 class. Here’s President Nelson saying, “What are the doctrines and teachings of the Book of Mormon?” And here’s a bunch of really concise bullet points about it.

Hank Smith: 11:22 Yeah, the other thing I thought, Jennifer, is when the Savior comes to the Nephites that he could say, of course, and he quotes a full chapter of Isaiah, and it’s Isaiah 54. So as much as we love Isaiah 53 with Abinadi, just as much we should love Isaiah 54 and what the Savior has to say about it and why he would even quote it to them.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 11:44 These chapters come alive, again, in this recent study, has been in the latter days. That Nephi tells us that. He invites us that. That he says these are going to be plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy, and then he keeps telling us how much he loves plainness. And so again, the Book of Mormon’s going to be that commentary to help us to make Isaiah plainer.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 12:06 The other thing, this is 2 Nephi 25:8 from Nephi, he tells us that we need to know that they’re of worth unto the children of men and he that supposes that they’re not and confine the words unto my own people. “For I know that they will be of great worth unto them in the last days. For in that day shall they understand them. Wherefore for their good I have written them.” And so as much as we want to know the context of Isaiah and his time, we need to know our context. And to be able to say, here we are in the latter days, this is it. And what am I doing to fulfill these prophecies? What am I doing to be a big player in this gathering that’s being taught about here? Do I know what we’re being invited to do? And am I getting really clear in the way I’m living my life?

Hank Smith: 12:58 That’s fantastic. All right, Jen, how do you want to jump into Isaiah 50? I’m guessing you want to start in the Book of Mormon.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 13:05 Yes I do. I want to invite the Holy Ghost to help us and to minister to us that we can live in the gift of prophecy and that I would hope every one of us right now is pleading for his influence. I would also hope that we would desire a straightforward experience with Jesus Christ today. That we’re going to have that chance. Elder Holland said this. Do you remember this? He said, “My desire today is for all of us, not just those who are poor in spirit, but all of us, to have more straightforward personal experiences with the Savior. Sometimes we seek heaven too obliquely, focusing on programs or history or the experience of others. Those are important but not as important as personal experience, true discipleship and the strength that comes from experience firsthand the majesty of his touch.”

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 13:53 That’s what Isaiah is bringing to us today, Jesus, straightforward. I just want to be so clear that that’s our objective, is Him. And that the Holy Ghost will minister to us. He’s going to deliver that to our hearts. We’ll each recognize it in our own unique ways. Be still in that and to know that we are experiencing the Savior and his work.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 14:19 So let’s go backward. I know last week we studied Isaiah 49, but we need to tack these chapters into Isaiah 49. It can’t just pick up in isolation. We’ve got to find Jesus and let’s begin there. In fact, even Isaiah 48, the first chapter that’s quoted in the Book of Mormon.

Hank Smith: 14:40 1 Nephi 20.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 14:42 And so again using this Book of Mormon theme, then we’ll go back there. And this is, Isaiah 48 is we’re getting Judas’ apostasy. And then we’re going to get into chapter 49, which is going to establish the scattering and gathering. Monte Nyman, he said that chapter 49 is one of the most important chapters in the whole book of Isaiah. Why? Because it’s going to foretell the mission of the Latter-day Saints and the destiny of the land of America. This is where we’re going to come in on the scene with the restoration. Nephi’s going to commentate on Isaiah 49. We’ll tack it on.

Hank Smith: 15:20 Feel free to. Yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 15:22 Nephi, when he talks about Isaiah, he calls him the prophet. And again, I mean we talk about a lot of times for Nephi that Isaiah was for him like Joseph Smith is to us, and that there’s this kinship connection. Let’s look at 1 Nephi 22. Will one of you read us that, 22:15 through 17? And this is going to give us a segue between the scattering and the chapters we’re about to jump into. 1 Nephi 22:15 through 17.

Hank Smith: 15:53 All right, John, you’re up.

John Bytheway: 15:54 “For behold sayeth the prophet, the time cometh speedily that Satan shall have no more power over the hearts of the children of men. For the day soon cometh that all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble and the day cometh that they must be burned. For the time soon cometh that the fullness of the wrath of God shall be poured out upon all the children of men. For he will not suffer that the wicked shall destroy the righteous. Wherefore, he will preserve the righteous by his power, even if it so be that the fullness of his wrath must come and the righteous be preserved even unto the destruction of their enemies by fire. Wherefore, the righteous need not fear, for thus sayeth the prophet, they shall be saved even if it so be as by fire.”

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 16:40 This establishment Nephi is giving us that we’re going to be in this battle, and here we are right now in the latter days, but there is going to be salvation. We’re going to be saved. With this framework, with this background of saying, okay, we’ve got scattered Israel and we’re going to need something to piece this together. Jesus, we need Jesus. And then Jacob’s going to come on the scene.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 17:03 I want to jump to 2 Nephi six. We see Lehi’s family fractured. He’s died, and the family’s divided. And really that’s such a great metaphor for understanding the scattering and the gathering, that God’s family’s fractured. And that only through Jesus Christ can the family be brought back together and redeemed. So Jacob is now appointed as a prophet, as a teacher, and he says in 2 Nephi 6, verse 3 that he’s anxious. He’s worried about us and he’s desired for the welfare of our souls.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 17:40 And so he says, this is the middle of 2 Nephi 6:3, “I’ve exhorted to you with all diligence and I’ve taught you the words of my father and I’ve spoken unto you concerning all things which are written from the creation of the world.” This is such a good bookend for what he’s going to do in 2 Nephi 9, which is the other side of the Isaiah chapters that he’s using, to be able to see we’ve got to get a big picture of the plan. And all that the mortal experience is about. So he is taking him back to creation.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 18:12 “Now, behold, I would speak unto you,” this is verse four, “concerning things which are and which are to come. Wherefore, I will read you the words of Isaiah and they are the words which my brother has desired that I should speak unto you.” Do you see this President Monson, President Nelson, Jacob and Nephi, that there’s this obedience, there’s this brotherhood that I want to do what I’m being asked to do. “They are the words which my brother has desired that I should speak unto you. And I speak unto you for your sakes. That ye may learn and glorify the name of your God.” Wouldn’t that be a good conference question? What do I need to learn and how can I better glorify the name of God?

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 18:55 “And now the words which I shall read,” verse five, “are they which Isaiah spake concerning all the house of Israel. Wherefore, they may be likened unto you, for ye are of the house of Israel. And there are many things which have been spoken by Isaiah, which may be likened unto you because ye are of the house of Israel.” What strikes you guys in there? When you see that and think, okay, here we are going into Isaiah, anything catch your attention?

John Bytheway: 19:23 Verse 23 I think, before he goes into those first two Isaiah chapters.

Hank Smith: 19:28 This one always makes me laugh when Jacob stands up and says, I got an assignment from my brother. I can just hear the audience going, let us guess. You’re going to speak on Isaiah. Because if Nephi gets a chance, that’s who he’s going to use. And now he’s passed that onto his brother. If you get a chance to talk to the people, use Isaiah. Talk to them about Isaiah.

Hank Smith: 19:52 It’s so interesting to me that they’re so excited about it. And yet for modern day Israel, for some members of the church including me sometimes, I’m like, Really? Did you have anything else that you could use? So when Jacob starts out, he says, “These are the words.” Where does he go? He goes, “Thus sayeth the Lord God, ‘behold, I will lift up my hand to the Gentiles.'” Where is that then? Does Jacob start in 49:22?

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 20:20 Yeah. And then he’s going to give us a little more context. And I think even understanding, we’re going to hear this a lot, ye are the house of Israel. I don’t know what that means to each of us. But I think this is a good chance to say, I need to go get out my patriarchal blessing, and remember that I have a declaration of lineage there. And that that lineage affirms that I am of the house of Israel, and that there are associated gifts and blessings and warnings stated there to show me how to do the work of the gathering. And to remember that. There’s another thing Jacob’s going to do here that matters. Verse 10, I think, is a very succinct definition of scattering. And it’s hardening hearts and stiffening necks. And so it doesn’t have to be physical. It’s very much about the condition of my heart and where I’m at.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 21:17 And then in 11, that he tells us the gathering is when we come to the knowledge of the redeemer. We’ll be gathered together again to the lands of our inheritance. And so knowledge of Christ, knowing Christ, and we’ve got to really articulate what does knowledge mean. To be able to say, Okay, I want to be gathered. Okay, I need to know him. And I think that that connotes an intimacy, a closeness, a familiarity. And again, this really tees up where we’re going with these Isaiah chapters.

Hank Smith: 21:52 Yeah. So he only quotes a couple of verses there, and then he goes on to give a commentary about what he’s just read. So that testifies to what you told us before, which is, hey, if you want to understand Isaiah, read the Book of Mormon.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 22:05 Yeah. Absolutely the best commentary. And Jacob, to me, is a good old friend. He’s one when I need a good doctrinal boost, he’s one that I need to sit with Jacob that he gets anxiety even. And I don’t know that he would describe it the way that I might describe it, but he’s familiar. He’s a friend. And so his commentary is clear and helpful in understanding where to go with this.

Hank Smith: 22:32 Yeah, that’s interesting because he quotes the Isaiah section that the Lord will lift up a standard and that kings shall be thy nursing fathers and Queens shall be thy nursing mothers. Their faces towards the earth, they’ll lick up the dust of thy feet. And now Jacob says, let me talk somewhat about those two verses I just showed you. There’s going to be a scattering. We’re living it. That seems to be what he’s saying. We are living this scattering. But one day there will be a gathering. That’s verse 11. I see that one day there will be a gathering. He’s getting that from Isaiah.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 23:07 Right. And that the gathering is knowing Christ. But it’s not enough to know him. And I think that a lot of times we want there to be a social Jesus, where we need to know a doctrinal Jesus. Knowing him is knowing, yes, his love, but also his law. And that will include entering into covenants and living covenants.

Hank Smith: 23:27 So then Jacob makes that commentary and then he jumps to quoting Isaiah 50. So he has quoted from 49, just a little bit, and then he’s like, now let me go to 50.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 23:38 This is where you can have some fun and set the Book of Mormon and the King James version side by side. I love the book that Shon Hopkin and Ann Madsen did where they harmonized Isaiah. That’s such a cool tool. To be able to say, what does it look like from the Dead Sea Scrolls, Joseph Smith translation, the Book of Mormon. What else did they use in there? The New Inspired version. I think for our sake, we’ll just go into the Bible, because it’s what we’re doing with Come Follow Me.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 24:05 What we’re going to see out the gate with chapter 50, well first I think we pay attention to the chapter headings. Isaiah’s going to speak as the Messiah. And there’s going to be some shifts in the way Isaiah uses the language of the Savior. But this time he’s going to be as, we’re going to get a servant song in here. Let’s see, we’ve had a few others, haven’t we? So we’ll have a servant song in here and some beautiful metaphors. And for me, I pay a lot of attention to anything that has to do with family. My work, my research, my teaching is focused on the family proclamation. And so any time I see anything, any sort of metaphor about the family, you’ve got my attention.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 24:48 Again, this idea that we are God’s family and we’re fractured and he wants us back. And that’s the mortal, state and condition. Salvation and exaltation is our work. We do it through the gathering, through helping people to come to know Jesus Christ. So what’s the first thing that we see? “Where is the bill of your mother’s divorcement? Whom have I put away or which of my creditors is to whom I have sold you?” So a divorced woman, it’s a metaphor. It’s not exactly what Isaiah’s trying to say here is, I’m going to talk to you about one single divorced woman, though the Lord cares about one single divorced mother. He’s saying Israel’s scattered. I use this little metaphor or this little couplet in my teaching. I start my first day of the family proclamation class and say, Welcome to Godhood 101. God wants us back. He wants to exalt us. Jesus is the way, through salvation. And that the family is the context.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 25:50 And when we see it that way, that’s gathering, and we’re all in process. With this class, it can sometimes be painful. The study of the family can be hard. But when we see this big picture, that it’s the study of God’s family and belonging there. Anyway, my point is, pay attention to these metaphors and maybe they won’t interest you the way they do me, but I really love seeing what God does with people that might be marginalized, lonely, isolated, or feeling like they may not fit or belong.

Hank Smith: 26:22 It sounds to me like he’s saying in Isaiah 50 verse one, I don’t remember me getting rid of you. I don’t remember me kicking you out. It’s almost sarcastic. When was it that I kicked you out? When was it that I sold you? I knocked on the door. Nobody answered. I tried to friend you on Facebook. No one friended me back. What happened? And he’s like, oh wait, now I remember.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 26:49 Well, and he’s saying my covenant is still intact.

Hank Smith: 26:52 Yeah, I’m still here. Right?

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 26:54 My covenant is still intact and it always will be. We have agency and we get to choose. We get to decide where we stand with God and if we will connect.

Hank Smith: 27:07 So the idea is I think in chapter 50, verse one, isn’t it Jen, I want to be connected to you. You chose otherwise. “For your iniquities, you sold yourselves. For your transgressions is your mother put away.” I didn’t divorce you. I never left the covenant. You left the covenant.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 27:26 Well, look at the questions in verse two. That the power of asking a question. You think how many times of us are drawn to Alma five because we love the questions and we love this inquiry. So break it down that way. Wherefore when I came, was there no man? When I called, was there none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all that it cannot redeem or have I no power to deliver? Those questions are good.

Hank Smith: 27:54 What do you say to those? I’m pretty sure you’re pretty good at this. And even reminds them about the drying up of the Red Sea and the Jordan River. He’s like, anybody remember those big moments when I had you walk through the Red Sea or across the Jordan Rivers? Anybody remembering that?

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 28:11 The covenant is always intact. He wants us back. It’s the work of exaltation and that he’s very interested in us becoming gods. In fact, have you guys learned that phrase, Lord God is going to show up. Do you see it there? If you see it in verse 4, 5, 7, 9. When I first heard or read Don Perry, he wrote an article called Hebrew School. It’s in the BYU Magazine the summer of 2013.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 28:39 I want to read this to you because, this idea then of saying, look, the covenant’s still intact, I want you back. But then he’s going to speak as always, the Messiah. “Lord God,” this is Don Perry, “is Hebrew Yahweh Elohim or Jehovah Elohim. The M, IM, at the end of Elohim indicates a plural word. So words like Cherubim seraphim, urim, thummin. Elohim literally means gods. “Some non-LDS biblical scholars maintain that Jehovah originates from the Hebrew to be verb. Thus Jehovah Elohim, some scholars assert, may be translated, he will cause to be Elohim. Meaning he will cause Gods to be. For Latter-day Saints, this literal translation of Lord God is significant because of our doctrine. The translation signifies that the Lord is a creator of gods. Or the idea that females and males immortality can become like God in eternity. Lord God is found hundreds of times in the Old Testament, he will cause Gods to be.”

Hank Smith: 29:45 That’s fantastic. Yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 29:47 Isn’t that so cool? And that when you think about that then in this context, it’s through covenants. It’s this idea that yeah, I want to be gathered. Every single day I need to be regathered. I need to regroup and say where am I? I’m all in covenant living and that I want to become a god. He will cause me to become a god.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 30:08 So let’s play with it for a minute using those verses. Again, don’t know if you see them there. Four through nine is where you see them. So what do you see about this Lord God? Any stand out there?

Hank Smith: 30:20 I almost hear Isaiah is saying, He wakes me up every morning to teach me. This God who can make gods has given me the tongue of the learned. He said that I should know how to speak a word in season. He waketh morning by morning. He waketh my ear to hear as the learned. He wakes me up every morning to teach me.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 30:41 Isn’t that fun? Well, and that coming and gathering, if we use the definition that we’ve just articulated to come to a knowledge of Jesus Christ, then I’ve got to be learned. There needs to be continuous learning of him in order to become like him.

John Bytheway: 30:57 Jennifer, sometimes we refer, and you used this phrase, a servant song. Can you kind of explain that more? Because we see them throughout Isaiah, and that might be new to some of our listeners. It was to me when I first started studying Isaiah, hearing scholars call it a servant song.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 31:16 My understanding of the servant song is that he’s speaking as though he’s Jesus. Do you know what I think of is a talk that Elder Holland gave.

Hank Smith: 31:25 The Inconvenient Messiah.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 31:27 The idea of the servant song is that here’s this poem or this expression of my service. Am I getting that right? Is that your understanding?

John Bytheway: 31:36 Yeah. I remember the first time I heard that I thought, what’s a servant song? And then I thought, okay, songs in the Old Testament, like a Psalm. He’s being poetic, he’s describing something, but it’s about this servant. And because we have this chapter heading, Isaiah speaks as the Messiah, we know who the servant is. And sometimes because it’s Isaiah, he may be being dualistic and talking about the house of Israel as the servant, all of us, Covenant Israel as the servant, other times it’s the Savior as the servant, or maybe both, because he’s Isaiah. I just thought that our listeners might, now what’s a servant song? Might want to know.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 32:17 I think the important thing with that, again, if we’re seeking application. Is to see that it is in the service that we become. That there is, and we’re going to see it in Isaiah 53, to be broken, to be malleable, to be taken to the dust and that he’ll exalt and lift, but that it’s in his work.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 32:40 And one of the things that’s been really stunning to me in this study is the number of times the Holy Ghost has just nudged me and said, “Do you see your covenants in here?” Even in this with the Lord God. Like Hank, you’re talking about the work we need to do to learn. But even in verse five, he’s opened my ear and I was not rebellious. I gave mine back to the smiters. It’s a surrendering. It’s the use of agency. That so often we go in a negative mindset instead of the power within us, because we are divine, because we have this potential. To be able to own up to that greatness, he will help me in verse seven and in verse nine. He will obey, if in verse 10, “Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness and hath no light.” I get to choose that. In contrast to verse 11, to kindle a fire that compass yourself about with sparks and walk in the light of your fire.

Hank Smith: 33:51 Yeah, you try to do this yourself, it’s not going to work. You try to walk in the light of your own fire, you’re going to lie down in sorrow.

Hank Smith: 33:59 Chapter 50, I love how he gets stronger and stronger. He starts to see, if the Lord is with me, who’s going to confound me? Verse eight, “He is near that justifieth me.” God is near, “Who will contend with me? Who is my adversary? Let him come near to me.” I love Isaiah’s confidence. Once he sees I’ve got the Lord God on my side, I’m going to win. I’m going to be redeemed. I’m going to be humble. I’ll turn my back to the smiters, but in the end I’m going to win because I know who I have on my side. That seems to me to be the message of chapter 50 there, the excitement builds.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 34:34 Well by virtue of covenant. And we’re going to get here with talking about the Sabbath when we get into chapter 56. But this idea, I think all the time, when do we start preparing for the sacrament? The moment it finished. The moment we finished, we’re preparing again for that next time to get to renew and remember. And that thinking about him, that blessing to always have his spirit, if we will remember him, that’s to be taken at face value. And that power is every one of ours, if we’ll claim it, to be able to be strong like that.

Hank Smith: 35:12 Now Jennifer, I don’t know if there’s a natural chapter heading here. Sometimes those chapter headings, they get in the way. Because it goes right to follow, he says you’re walking in your own light. That’s chapter 50 verse 11. And he says, Instead of doing that, it seems to me in 51 verse one, look back to the original covenant. Look back to Abraham and Sarah. Don’t walk in the light of your own fire, come get into the fire of the covenant.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 35:40 That’s right. And to go back to Abraham, what do we know about the Abrahamic Covenant? And what does that mean to us to have the blessings of posterity, the power of the priesthood in our lives? The promises that are available to us by virtue of covenant living. This is really where family history comes in, that yes, knowing that we belong to Abraham, go back to your patriarchal blessing, I’ll say it again, and see that blessing of belonging, that there is a declaration of lineage that says you are the seed of Abraham like you’re saying in verse two of chapter 51, “Abraham, your father and unto Sarah that bear you, for I called him alone and blessed him and increased him.” And the same blessing is ours to be increased.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 36:30 When I know my generations, when I know the names. This is one of the things I’ve done is I’ve taken five generations of grandparents and great grandparents and so forth and I’ve got them all on my calendar on my phone so that I know when their birthdays are and I know when their anniversaries are. And then I’ll get the pop up. And that’s the reminder today’s the day to especially study that person. To know them, to connect to who I am and my lineage. Same is true with Abraham, to connect back and to know Abraham.

Hank Smith: 37:05 So instead of walking in the light of my own fire, why don’t I walk in the light of the fire the Lord has provided? He reminds them of the promises he gave to Abraham. Like verse three, “For the Lord shall comfort Zion. He will comfort all her waste places. He will make her wilderness like Eden and her desert like the garden of the Lord.” What can the world offer? What can the light of your fire, from 50 verse 11, offer that compares to 51:3, what the Lord has to offer?

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 37:34 And in fact, look at those words, me and my and I. Verses four through 16, I’d say we go circle and highlight those words, Me, my, to be able to see that, Hank, is so sweet. Here’s what he offers and “Hearken unto me, my people.” Verse four, “Give ear unto me, oh my nation, for a law shall proceed from me.” And to learn to love that law, to cherish and live God’s law. “My righteousness is near.” In verse five, “My salvation is gone forth.” And on it goes. “Wait upon me and on mine arm shall they trust.” In the middle of verse six, “But my salvation shall be forever and my righteousness shall not be abolished.” You get to choose. Walk with me and this is all yours. Walk on your own…

Hank Smith: 38:34 Yeah, walk with the light of your own fire. Give it a try. And he calls it sparks. Walk with your own sparks if you want them, but look what the Lord offers.

John Bytheway: 38:45 And sparks are so brief, they have so little illumination and then they’re gone. And the light of God is much more constant. I like that verse one is maybe an Isaiah way of saying you’re a chip off the old block. But you know what I love about verse two here is, the Abrahamic covenant doesn’t happen without Sarah. And I love that he says, “Look unto Abraham your father and unto Sarah that bear you.” I love that this Abrahamic covenant, maybe we could call it Abraham/Sarah Covenant. Just I love that he mentions, this doesn’t happen without Sarah. And we know their story, and we know that he was promised this posterity. And then Sarah for a long time didn’t have children. And so I love that he mentions both of them there. I think that’s significant.

Hank Smith: 39:35 Yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 39:35 It carries on that family metaphor that I love so much. That in such a contrast of the bill of divorcement of your mother, here’s an intact family, but that it didn’t come easy for them. That there was time and work. And I do think sometimes we forget the purpose of a fallen state. That we’re meant to struggle. We’re meant to become gods, and that there’s going to be a lot of work to get there. Hank, tell us about verse seven.

Hank Smith: 40:03 I like what you said there. When you look to Abraham and Sarah, you don’t look to perfection. They struggled. It wasn’t an easy thing. They were blessed tremendously, but they were blessed through their struggling. It’s almost as if he’s saying, can you go back and read Genesis and really learn? Don’t forget their story.

Hank Smith: 40:22 And I just love where he says in verse seven, “Hearken to me. Hearken to me.” Why are you looking other places? Hearken to me. I can give you what you want. “Ye that know righteousness. The people in whose heart is my law.” You know it, I know it. Stop worrying about what other people think. “Fear ye not the reproach of men. Neither be ye afraid of their revilings.” That’s going to go away, but put on the strength of the Lord. This does seem like a big pep talk.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 40:51 And huge reminder, a huge reminder of what it means to be a covenant people. I’ve got to check myself all the time. There’s this constant worry about the horizontal influences instead of going vertical. And that vertical connection that gets in my heart, that your law is here and that I have to slow down and be still and really receive that power instead of the distraction all around me.

Hank Smith: 41:17 Look vertical, don’t look horizontal. That’s verse seven.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 41:21 Yeah, go vertical on this. And that’s the challenge that I think President Monson said that once. It’s better to look up. Isn’t that right? Wasn’t it President Monson? It’s better to look up. You’re going to note while we’re lifting up our eyes was one of them, in fact. Then we’re going to get awake, awake a couple of times. It’s going to come up three times, 9:17 and 52:1.

Hank Smith: 41:42 Jen, doesn’t that tell you Lehi read Isaiah?

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 41:46 Totally. I think so.

Hank Smith: 41:49 What is that? 2 Nephi 1? That’s Lehi’s message to Laman and Lemeul. Awake. Awake.

John Bytheway: 41:54 Hank, thank you for mentioning Lehi. This idea of waking up, all of these verses that say awake are for people who are already awake physically. And it’s a different kind of wake up. To remember the words of President Ezra Taft Benson who said, “We must be shakened and awakened from a spiritual snooze.” And I love the metaphor of a snooze button. I’m going to get my act together as soon as school’s out, as soon as this, as soon as this, and we reach over and hit our spiritual snooze button. And this awake is your spirit, you’re awake physically, because you’re hearing me, because you’re reading these words. But to wake up spiritually to what’s happening, it seems that’s what every general conference I feel like we’re being invited again, wake up.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 42:43 Your shake is going to come in 52:2. “Shake thyself from the dust. Arise and sit down.” I wonder what it would look like for us to really, really live our covenants. That this idea awaken and awaken, put on strength. We live so beneath our privilege as covenant members of the church of Jesus Christ. And there’s such power that we have to harness and claim and building Zion. Zion’s going to come up.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 43:14 I think a lot of times we talk about Zion and we just can’t wait for Jesus to come and clean this mess up, forgetting that we’ve got work to do in building and establishing that. And then he’s going to come and help and be a part of it, but he’s already very much present in our lives.

Hank Smith: 43:30 He makes this beautiful analogy in 51:9. Again, referring to their history. He says, “Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab and wounded the dragon.” If you just know that that’s Egypt and Pharaoh, so he’s hearkening back to the Red Sea there. “Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep.” So not only has he now reminded them of Abraham and Sarah, he’s now reminding them of Moses and crossing the Red Sea and how he made the way. Do you remember that? Remember how I made the way? I can do that again. Verse 11. “The redeemed of the Lord shall return.” He kind of points to this, I’ll do it for you, too. I’ll make a way.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 44:10 Yeah. And joy. Do you see the joy? That over and over we get this joy. And that verse You were just in, verse 11, there’s joy. It is to be found and it’s attainable. Anything else in there? Verse 16, again, this bookend. “Thou art my people.”

Hank Smith: 44:30 These chapters so far have been a pep talk, reminder, get back on the covenant path. It sounds like a President Nelson talk. If you’re off the path, get back on. Remember how good God has been in the past? Get back on that path.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 44:46 Do you ever wonder about the covenant path? I love that visual. I love the language of it. Sometimes I hear people talking about it though, and they describe an ordinance path. We want to delineate it, make it a checklist. And so, okay, I was baptized, I received the Holy Ghost, the priesthood and the temple and different things. The reality of the covenant path is that it’s work. And in a lot of ways we’re cleaning up a path. I mean, can you imagine, sometimes you see people on the side of the road with their vests on and they’re cleaning up the road. The covenant path is more about engagement. It’s about living the covenants. It’s about practicing and becoming, than it is about a delineated process. And there’s a messiness in that, because it necessitates engagement with other people.

Hank Smith: 45:36 I like that, Jen.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 45:38 Tell me more. What is it that?

Hank Smith: 45:39 Well, I just like that. The covenant path is not a checklist of ordinances. It’s living those ordinances. I’ve never thought of that idea of I’ve got my orange vest on and I’m cleaning up the way, because I’ve made promises.

John Bytheway: 45:54 Yeah, I like that President Nelson has talked about the happiness we have isn’t so much the circumstances of our lives as it is the focus of our lives. And I think the focus of our lives can be the covenant path. We’re focused on the Savior, being where we’re supposed to be, trying to live the gospel repenting every day. And I love the idea that a path, there’s a lot of off-ramps, there’s a lot of temptations, but thankfully because the Lord, there’s a lot of on-ramps, too. And if you’re not on the covenant path or feel that you are, there’s on-ramps. Come back on.

John Bytheway: 46:27 I like what you’re saying, Jennifer, that we don’t want to make it a checklist or an ordinance thing, but it’s that mindset that Martin Harris was told, Learn of me, listen to my words, walk in the meekness of my spirit, and then this wonderful promise. You will have peace in me. I love that that was given to Martin Harris, and we talked about this last year, who was… some huge decisions. Should I mortgage my farm to finance the Book of Mormon? Can I take the 116 page manuscript to show my wife? Can I take these characters to Charles Anthon? And here’s the Lord saying, “Martin, keep it right here. This is where you’ll find peace and learning of me and listening to my words.” And maybe that’s another way to describe the covenant path, Jennifer. Thanks for saying that.

Dr. Jennifer Platt: 47:10 You bet. My experience has been, he’s never left me on my own. It’s never been that life was always smooth sailing. But I know you’re happier when you’re living your covenants. And that there needs to be a really concerted, focused, intentional effort that I want to live my covenants today. I want to have a straightforward experience with Jesus Christ. I want to draw him into my life. And life can be messy. I mean, I was single a long time and frankly it was pretty fun. I had a good time. But that covenant, that’s a rising from an altar of the temple of our God with my sweetheart, nothing can compare to the chance we have to work it together.

Hank Smith: 48:02 Please join us for part two of this podcast.