John Bytheway: 00:02 Welcome to part two of this week’s podcast.

Hank Smith: 00:07 John, you mentioned tender mercies from Psalm 119 verse 77. Those who are studying with us might be questioning what is up with Psalm 119. Can you explain what all these symbols and headers are about?

John Bytheway: 00:26 Yes, I can. If you look at Psalm 119 it’s 176 verses, but it’s divided. And if you look at it, you will see it’s divided using Hebrew symbols. So look at Psalm 119 on page 792 if you’re using ancient paper scriptures, like I am, and you’ll see the symbol and the word, I hope I’m saying it right, aleph, and notice it starts with an A, and the next symbol just above verse nine is beth.

Hank Smith: 00:59 There it is, yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:59 This is the Hebrew alphabet. So here’s what’s fun to know about this. We will talk about this again when we talk about Proverbs, but this is called an acrostic poem. And some of you going, “Oh, cross-stitch, I’ve done cross…” No, acrostic is like saying Hank, “A is for your altruisticness. B is for your benevolence. C is for your charity. D is for your delightfulness.” And each of these are divided among the consonants, I think it was. Let me see. I have a study Bible that explains it here. Let’s see what it says. This very lengthy poem is an acrostic. For each of the 22 consonants of the Hebrew alphabet, there are eight verses beginning with that letter. Within the Psalm, eight words for God’s law occur again and again, law, testimonies, promise, precepts, statutes, commandments, judgements, and word. These words elaborate the application of the law of God to daily life and to Israel’s destiny.

John Bytheway: 02:04 So that’s why those little letters are there. But I just want to say, some things become so important to us just explaining it isn’t enough. We want to put it into a poem or into a lyric, and this is exactly what Michael has been telling us about. In fact, Hank, you and I remember last year, as we were talking about section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants, that revelation at the John Johnson farm, the vision of the three degrees of glory, has a poetic version. It meant so much to them, they wrote it again as a poem. Before, when we were setting up microphones and everything. Michael, you mentioned a poem of Bruce R. McConkie. What was that you mentioned?

Michael McLean: 02:50 I Believe in Christ has been quoted way more than anything he ever said in conference. It’s the song, it’s the songs that live with us.

John Bytheway: 02:57 That was the impression I got. Some things are so important we’re going to work even harder and put it in a poetry form or a lyrical form.

Hank Smith: 03:05 Put it into a song.

John Bytheway: 03:07 And so that kind of means a lot to me that here in this song, this meant a lot to them. So they designed it to fit with each letter and not just A to Z or whatever the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet is, but A through Z, it’s everything, alpha through omega.

Hank Smith: 03:23 That’s awesome, John. There is a verse in here I’d like to highlight and see what both of you think about it. It’s a pretty famous verse. One that’s well known. Psalm 119:105. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. I have a parable I want to share from James Talmage. But first I want to hear from both of you about thy word is a lamp unto my feet.

Michael McLean: 03:48 Light is just a part of all the songs. And I so resonate with 105, and the story I just told you about hold on, the light will come and a number of other things.

Hank Smith: 04:00 I don’t know if everybody’s heard the light will come. Can you give us that?

Michael McLean: 04:03 This is the English version. This is what Noah, in my musical about the ark, and since we’ve been doing Old Testament, this is what Noah… Everybody gets through the crisis and thinks, oh, yay, yay, yay. The storm’s over. Ah, got through that, we’re done. And Noah, who’s a little wiser, said, “No, it’s going to get hard again, but we can’t forget this moment.” And he sings. The message of this moment is so clear. And as certain as the rising of the sun. If your world is filled with darkness, doubt or fear, just hold on, hold on, the light will come because everyone who’s ever tried and failed, we stand much taller when the victory is won. And those who’ve been in darkness for a while, we kneel much longer when the light has come.

Michael McLean: 05:24 It’s a lesson every one of us must learn, that the answers never come without a fight. And when it seems you’ve struggled far too long, just hold on, there will be light. Hold on. Hold on. The light will come. Hold on. If you feel trapped inside a never ending night, you just hold on. If you’ve forgotten how it feels to feel the light then hold on, if you are half crazy thinking maybe you’re the only one who’s afraid that light may never ever come. Just hold on. Hold on. The light will come. Hold on. Hold on. The light will come because you’re not alone.

Michael McLean: 06:50 Even though right now you’re on your own, you are loved in ways that can’t be shown, your needs are known, but you’re not alone. When you cry, you’re just letting go of heartache deep inside. So tomorrow there’ll be sunshine and sky and love close by, but you’re not alone. And I know that it’s not easy, and I know that it won’t last because one who loves you more than me, he’s sending his blessings fast. You’re not alone. Say it one more time. I’m not alone. And even when it’s hard, sometimes it’s hard to find the words, your prayers are always heard. You’re not alone. The lesson of this moment is clear. And as certain as the rising of the sun. If your world is filled with darkness, doubt or fear, just hold on, hold on, the light will come. The light will come.

Hank Smith: 08:47 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.

Michael McLean: 08:52 I’m feeling that light. I am grateful to have been blessed after spending so many years in aching and yearning. I’m feeling the light, and it’s embarrassing to me to confess that, it’s a little presumptuous I think, that here are the great words in the holy scriptures and I’m writing songs about them as if, well, maybe this is worthy. Maybe this take on light or this feeling about tender mercies or coming up on 127, I read that thing about an excerpt that God builds the house and I thought, oh, here’s the song. I know it’s a little pretentious, and it’s a little self-serving, “Oh, look at me. I wrote a song about the scriptures. These are my songs. David was fine, but he’s been dead a long time.” But it’s the way I’m allowed to witness of those truths.

Michael McLean: 09:53 I’m not a seminary teacher. I’m not an Institute. I don’t have a PhD. I listen to your podcast and try to figure stuff out because I’m just not that bright in so many ways. I hope that the songs throw the focus to where it’s supposed to be, which is not about the song, not about the scripture, not about the quote, not about the talk. It’s about the source of all the things we’re trying to witness. It’s got to come through and be focused on that. And if I’ve been lucky enough to have any of my songs or any of the things that I’ve written that have music with it, point not to me as much as people in show business want to have their egos fluffed up. Every songwriter wants to be Billy Joel or Paul McCartney. We want that. But if somehow I can… Before I’m gone, I want to get past that.

Michael McLean: 10:51 The reason I did my little allthingsmichaelmclean.com website that I spent two years with my son is I wanted every thought, every song, every musical, every book, and I have 22 new songs that nobody’s ever heard that I wrote during the pandemic, that if I get to live a little longer, I’d like to get those through. But my great hope is that people won’t say, “Gosh, that Michael McLean, 50 years, he’s still writing pretty good songs.” No, my hope is they’ll say, “I hadn’t thought that before. Wow. What a cool idea. My heart is now going to kind of sing that.” And I’m sure that’s what you are about. I’m sure that’s what your podcast is about. And I’m so grateful that President Nelson said, “Hear him.”

Michael McLean: 11:43 You know how profound that is to a songwriter, hear him. Hear him in the language and in the hope and in the melodies, you find a way to hear him. And the harder I try to listen, the more I realize he has a melody for every soul. He has a brilliant insight for every academician. He has a perfect quote from a scripture to those who studied the scriptures and he is in all of it. All of it. And my praise, my new song of praise is, wow, another place you are that I didn’t know. That’s my heart.

Hank Smith: 12:30 It’s beautiful. John, what did you want to add to thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.

John Bytheway: 12:37 So many thoughts about that. One of them, oddly, Lehi’s dream. We all know, oh yeah, that’s the rod of iron, the tree of life. But how does it start? I was in a dark and dreary wilderness and I wandered for many hours, and Michael’s talked about something we might compare to that. I was in a dark and dreary wilderness for many hours. And then he prayed according to the multitude of his tender mercies, I think he says, look at the order. I prayed. I beheld. The only thing I can imagine is, as soon as he prayed, the Lord turned the lights on because suddenly he can see. And you look at that verse, thy word is a lamp unto my feet. Suddenly the light came and I could see where I was going.

John Bytheway: 13:25 The gospel lights the path, and then we know here’s who I am, who’s why I’m here. Stephen Covey wrote that Albert Einstein was asked once, “If you could ask God anything, what would you ask him?” And Albert Einstein said, “Well, I’d ask him how he created the universe.” And then he changed his mind and said, “No, no, no, no, wait. I would ask him why he created the universe because then I would know the meaning of my life.” There’s the lamp unto your feet. This is the path. This is who you are. This is where you’re going. And this is why you’re here. This is the covenant path President Nelson might say.

John Bytheway: 14:01 I remember another favorite verse of mine coming up in Proverbs, ponder the path of thy feet. It’s like, where are you going? What’s your path? And so feet are always kind of, scripturally I think, indicating a direction, a path that you’re on. So thy word is a lamp to my feet, that sounds like the word of the Lord, the scriptures. They hear him, as Michael was talking, thy word is a lamp to my feet. The one last thing that I just love about this is some of the greatest teachings ever have come from gotcha questions. From people with not the best motives.

John Bytheway: 14:37 So here’s Abinadi and they’re trying to stump him with an Isaiah verse. “Hey, what does this mean? How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of them that publisheth good tidings of good? And Abinadi, are you priests who pretend to teach these people?” And he’s using the 10 commandments and everything, but he eventually answers the question and talks about the prophets and how beautiful upon the feet of their mountains. And then the thing I love about Abinadi is he looks to the future and those who are still proclaiming the gospel, how beautiful are their feet, and how beautiful are the feet of those who will hereafter publish peace. And I think of all these missionaries that are out and all of us who are trying to publish good tidings of good. And it started with a question about feet. Okay, now I know who I am and where I’m supposed to go and the way is lit before me. So that’s huge.

Hank Smith: 15:33 Yeah. To me, that’s an impressive, what you and Michael both say, is that the light is part of the gospel. It’s frequently used as a representation of the Savior. John called him the Light, capital L. I wanted to share this parable that Elder Talmage shared. It’s a simple parable. He calls it The Parable of the Two Lamps. He relates an experience he had with a lamp vendor. Apparently this lamp salesman wanted to sell Elder Talmage a brighter lamp, but Elder Talmage was confident he already had the best lamp available.

Hank Smith: 16:07 So he was shocked to see just how superior the vendor’s lamp was. All he had to do was turn on his lamp. Its light made bright, the remotest corner of my room. In its brilliant blaze, my own little lamp burned a weak pale yellow until that moment of convincing demonstration, I had never known the dim obscurity in which I had lived and labored, studied and struggled.

Hank Smith: 16:36 And he said that, of course he purchases the lamp. This comes from a BYU-Idaho Devotional by Steven Hunsaker. He adds this, “How foolish we would be to smugly conclude that there are neither questions yet to be asked nor light yet to be received?” How foolish we would be. In other words, to decline the offer of a brighter lamp, the offer of greater light. I love this idea, John and Michael, thy word is a lamp unto my feet, please make it brighter. Please give me more. And what does the Doctrine and Covenants say, he who continueth within God, John, you could finish this for me.

John Bytheway: 17:13 Section 50, verse 24, and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day. One of my favorite verses. I just came from a little speaking assignment, some wonderful leaders in a girl’s camp. And I just was trying to express to them, can you imagine if every teenager on the planet could stand up once, twice a week and say, as the young men do, “I’m a beloved son of God and he has a work for me to do.” Or as the young women do, “I’m a beloved daughter of heavenly parents with an eternal nature and divine destiny.” And to be able to actually know who they are and what path they’re on. Can you imagine what a different world we would have if everybody could stand and say, “This is who I am, this is what I believe. This is what I will do. This is what I will not do.” What a light thy word is unto my feet. It just illuminates everything like you said.

Hank Smith: 18:07 What did Jesus say? He that followed me shall not walk in darkness.

John Bytheway: 18:11 Walk in darkness.

Hank Smith: 18:11 But shall have the light of life. Michael, you mentioned earlier, Psalm 127. What’s it about? And why did it stand out to you?

Michael McLean: 18:19 Well, I came across the line accept the Lord, build the house. I thought of a song that I didn’t realize was my effort to not only reflect the whole idea of having the Lord help me build my house, but the lyrics seem to matter. And a lot of the songs are about praise and a lot of the songs are lamentations. And a lot of the songs of David are just please forgive me, I kind of missed the point. They’re all different kinds of songs. I love it because they’re songs that are kind of commitments to Jesus. Well, here’s mine for 127.

Michael McLean: 19:05 I took a snapshot of my life, but the exposure was all wrong. I couldn’t see a thing developing, it’s been that way too long. So I have come with a request, though part of me thinks I’m insane, but I’m determined to see this thing through and I will not complain. Here is the best part. Take my life and turn it into something better. Choose any way you will. Take this shack, break down the walls and build a palace up on a higher hill. I thought I knew where I should go. I tried to get there all alone. I took the easy roads and now I know that I’m lost, and I’m all alone and on my own. So take my life and turn it into something useful.

Michael McLean: 20:30 Don’t stop until you are done. Take these eyes, make them see a clearer vision of what I can become. On those days when I think I’m dying, I’ll trust in you and I’ll keep on trying. If you picked this road, I’ll take it. And with you by my guide, I know I can make it. Please take my life and make it one that is worth living. Don’t stop until you’re through. Take this life, the one that I am freely giving, I give it all. I give it all, I give it all to you. I give it all to you.

John Bytheway: 22:06 Like it, accept the Lord, build the house. It’s like you’re saying, help me build this because you’re a better builder than I am.

Hank Smith: 22:14 “Men and women who turn their lives over to God,” said President Benson, “will find out he can make a lot more.”

John Bytheway: 22:19 He can make a lot more.

Hank Smith: 22:20 “Out of their lives than they can.”

John Bytheway: 22:21 Out of their lives, yeah.

Hank Smith: 22:25 Accept the Lord, build the house. They labor in vain that build it. This is 127, accept the Lord, keep the city, the Watchman waketh but in vain.

John Bytheway: 22:34 I like those, verse four and five are kind of fun. It’s like children are like arrows, verse five, happy is the man that hath quiver full of them.

Hank Smith: 22:43 Yes. Children are a heritage of the Lord.

John Bytheway: 22:47 Yeah. Especially if they’ll help you do the dishes, then it’s really fun.

Hank Smith: 22:52 I’m going to gather my little arrows together tonight and say, “Come here you little arrows, let me hug you.”

Michael McLean: 22:59 When my daughter was three, I thought, how am I going to teach her the gospel when there’s so many things I believe I can’t explain? I believe Jesus came to earth, died on the cross, three days later was resurrected. Believe it, can’t explain it. I believe he went into the garden of Gethsemane and somehow took on the pains and the sins of the universe. Believe it. Can’t explain it. If I can’t explain so much of the stuff that I believe in, what can I give my three-year-old?

Michael McLean: 23:30 Well, this will not surprise you, this was my primary song. I said, “If you don’t get anything else, try to get this.” And it goes, you know I believe in you, even though I can’t explain it. Please help me to understand all that you’ve done, why you are the son of our father above. But most of all, teach me to love. You know I believe in you, but it’s been so long since you lived here. Someday when you come to stay, we’ll still be friends because we’ve been such friends from the start. Lord I love you with all of my heart. You know I believe in you, and love you with all of my heart.

Hank Smith: 24:37 It’s no wonder Beethoven said music can change the world. It seems to me when I read these Psalms, Michael, that the writer here is trying to just say something over and over, trying to get a feeling across, isn’t that right? That in music, I want to communicate a feeling that’s in my heart to others. I’m looking at Psalm 136. Oh, give thanks unto the Lord, verse one and two start that way. So does verse three. Oh, give thanks to the Lord of Lords for his mercy, chesed, endureth forever. And Michael, as a songwriter, how do we get into the heart and soul of the writer of the Psalms? You can sense that there’s a yearning in there for a feeling to come across, right?

Michael McLean: 25:29 As I said earlier, wouldn’t it be great if David sang them to us? And we’d listen and we’d go, geez, they liked that when you were around, that was your… What if they were hip hop? What if the message that spoke to people then what if the poems were basically what rap poems are? I mean, it was a kind of a rhythm. What if it was more the rhythm of it that moved people? As a guy who grew up on the Tab Choir, we think so much, this is what is reverent. This is what’s meaningful. And I remember when I was working on my oratorio about the garden of Gethsemane, I got a lot of pushback, because why are you making up an allegorical oratorio?

Michael McLean: 26:15 Handel just took the scriptures and made the music spectacular. Handel’s music, there is no better music than what Handel wrote from those scriptures. Well, that’s not my gift. I’m a reverend, it’s great. But if I’m going to present whatever Heavenly Father’s gave me that’s unique, and present that to the world. It’s kind of represented in what I’m doing here. Oh, this is the way Michael sees the garden. This is the way Michael understands Christmas with the forgotten carols. Oh, this is the way Michael sees relationships with his kids in this song. And so I’ve been just exploring it so long, and I think the only way you get into the heart of it is if the person gets the privilege, not of just reading it, but of feeling it.

Michael McLean: 27:08 You can tell from this, I don’t sing great. I got to tell you this really fast. This is an amazing revelation to me. When I was working on The Ark, the musical from which Hold On, the Light Will Come, came. I was on Broadway in a room with 400 people and Steven Schwartz, the guy who wrote Wicked and Godspell and Prince of Egypt and my hero, and he had been mentoring young people writing shows, and he had written a show about Noah’s Ark called Children of Eden. Second act was about that. And here I was getting mentored with this musical Kevin Kelly and I wrote about the ark.

Michael McLean: 27:49 I’m so glad I was young. One night he said, “Here’s what we’re going to do different tonight. We’re going to do dueling pianos.” Dueling pianos with Steven Schwartz. And he says, “Mike, here’s what we’ll do. We’ll be in the room in front of everybody. I’ll talk about the songs I wrote about Noah’s Ark, how I came to them and I’ll sing them. Then you talk about the songs you wrote about Noah’s Ark and you sing them.” And of course, during this, I realized why he was genius, academy award-winning God-human, Stephen Schwartz and I was a high counselor in Hebrew.

Michael McLean: 28:26 So anyway, but I’m going through this. And I had this moment where I talked about, Hold On, the Light Will Come. And I played it like I just played it for you. And then in between the moments people were having wine and cheese, and this was not a LDS crowd, but just people in showbiz, theater people, and a guy comes up to me and he says, “Can I talk to you?” And he pulled me aside. He said, “You don’t sing, do you?” I said, “Well, no. I’m really not a singer.” I said, “But tonight was not about…” Because they would bring in great Broadway legends to sing all of our songs. But tonight was not about that.

Michael McLean: 29:05 He says, “No, you really don’t sing.” And I said, “And I really heard you the first time. I get it.” And he said, “Yeah, I’ve been listening to some of the Broadway’s greatest singers sing these songs for these new musicals.” And then he whispers to me, this was life changing for me. He said, “So could you explain to me what I was feeling when you sang the song that I haven’t been feeling when real singers sing the song?” And that was a light bulb went off in my head.

Michael McLean: 29:46 If it’s true, if you work hard enough, one of the things Steven Schwartz taught me, he says, “Just because you want to do a really cool thing about good ideas and you have great intentions, the bar is higher. You can’t get away with I got a great intention, you have to like my song. No, you got to learn how to write great songs.” You can’t just say, “But I meant to make the world happy and live.” And if you’re a Mormon and you’re trying to keep kids on the straight and narrow and keep the covenants, try to write a song with celestial in it. I mean, there’s not a lot of rhymes that are going down with that.

Michael McLean: 30:21 But here’s the thing, and I finally gave up on fighting it. If the song speaks truth, if I write a song and I can put it on the altar so that I could be altered and others may be altered by it. And then it’s like Brother of Jared, I put the stones out there and say, “This is the best I could do.” There may be another way, but Heavenly Father, will you touch the song? Not because I’m so cool, but if this could help somebody, including me. I tried a lot of other things as I think Brother of Jared did. I tried other plans. I tried windows. I had this great idea. No, here’s the best I could do. These are just stones by a not-that-great songwriter, but I’ve put them on the altar and I said, “Your turn, touch him.”

Michael McLean: 31:14 And what’s been so tender to me is he’s touched them, me, clinically depressed, challenged, unhealthy, filled with faith crisis, families with all kinds of anxiety, all kinds of problems, all kinds of heartache. If he’ll help my songs maybe speak to somebody, he’ll touch anybody who’s willing to put the stones out there I think. If he’ll touch your podcast, to have it reach all the people it reaches and goes beyond, he can help the guy that’s sitting there right now, listening to this saying, “Oh, but he’s not going to touch mine,” because we keep telling ourselves if they talk about the light on the path. What if you’re me? What if you’re begging for some light?

Michael McLean: 32:10 You have made films seen by hundreds of millions of people in several languages all over the world and you have a crisis in your family and you beg God for the light, and it’s dark. No, “Hey, I gave the great prayer. I gave my all, I made my new covenant, get me through next week.” Nothing, nothing. And I make a covenant with him in a prayer that says, “Okay, I will trust you. It’s been two years of darkness, I will show up and shut up. I will keep the promises I no longer feel. Just get me through.” And as I’m saying this prayer, I think, well, this is a great prayer. Light’s going to show up maybe five weeks from now and I’ll give a great talk on the podcast about the song and the light in my path showed up, because I said my prayer seven more years.

Michael McLean: 33:05 And thinking, what did I do? I’m going to the temple with my wife every week. I’m paying tithing. What could I possibly have done to make you mad at me? Just a little more light, and all I’m promising is I’ll keep the promises my heart no longer feels, for nine years. And if there’s somebody out there who hears the Psalm about say your prayers and the light to your path will get you going, and you think it must be me. The reason God has not revealed the light is because the word which is Jesus, doesn’t want to walk with me, he doesn’t like me. For some reason I haven’t even figured out.

Michael McLean: 33:45 And I am here to bear witness, whether you keep it in or not. I want to speak to that guy. I want to speak to his heart. And I want to tell him that he has never not been with you. You feel the abandonment because there are lessons you can’t learn any other way. He is in and all through things. And the only voice in your head that says, “Well, you’re not hearing it because you’re not worthy,” does not come from God. That comes from an adversary who wants to tell you’re not worthy, you’re not good enough, it’s not okay if you didn’t get everything perfect. It is the voice that right now in your heart, he speaks, as the scriptures are shared with you, that says, “I am in it all with you. I am the light. The word the light, that’s me, and I’m not going anywhere.”

Michael McLean: 34:43 And when I learned that, when my moment of being born again interestingly enough came with a download of songs from my father in heaven that answered nine years of darkness in a language that only I understood. And then I realized, oh my gosh, that’s when my praises changed for forever.

Hank Smith: 35:09 Beautiful. Psalm 136 has one phrase that is said over and over and over, “For his mercy endureth forever,” verse one. Verse two, “For his mercy endureth forever.” Verse three, “For his mercy endureth forever.” I could keep going all the way through 26 verses, “For his mercy endureth forever.” Are we getting that message? I’ve heard you talk about getting perfection and coming to Christ in the right order, John.

John Bytheway: 35:39 The closing lines of Moroni, “Yea come unto Christ and be perfected in him.” And the sequence of that is not come unto Christ, but make sure you’re perfect before you come. I’m not good enough to come, I got to perfect myself or something like that. No, no, no. Be perfected in him. That sequence. Sister Chieko Okazaki, she wrote a book called Lighten Up. On page 176 she said, “Jesus is not waiting for us to be perfect.” And I just love that opening line because Hank that would be a long wait. It’s like that old Chinese proverb, he who waits for roast duck to fly into mouth must wait a very long time. You’ve never heard that one.

John Bytheway: 36:28 Jesus is not waiting for us to be perfect. Perfect people don’t need a savior. He came to save us in our imperfections. He is the Lord of the living, and the living make mistakes. He’s not embarrassed by us, angry at us or shocked. He wants us in our brokenness, in our unhappiness, in our guilt and our grief. And do you know what I love about that, Hank? It always reminds me of the prodigal son, as soon as he turned from a great distance, his father ran to him. His father saw him and ran. He’ll take us where we’re at. And so I like that sequence; come unto Christ, just come.

Hank Smith: 37:09 I’ve often found, John and Michael, that people need multiple witnesses that God is merciful. For some reason we don’t believe it. So I have some witnesses here. This is Elder Gong, “We may for a time lose our way. God lovingly assures us no matter where we are or what we have done, there is no point of no return. He waits, ready to embrace us.”

Hank Smith: 37:38 This is Elder Renlund, “Even if we’ve been a conscious deliberate sinner or have repeatedly faced failure and disappointment. The moment we decide to try again, the Atonement of Christ can help us.” Elder Cook, “It is never too late to make the Savior’s atonement the foundation of our faith and lives.” Elder Uchtdorf, “No matter how often or how far we fall, the light of Christ ever burns brightly. And even in the deepest night, if we but step toward him, his light will consume the shadows and reignite our souls.” One more, I know this is multiple witnesses, but we need this. President Ballard, “Everyone loses his or her way at some point to some degree, it is the atoning sacrifice of the Savior that can return us home.”

Hank Smith: 38:30 Psalm 136 is for his mercy endureth forever. This isn’t a message we should ever stop preaching that God is merciful. We need to tell our children and our grandchildren God is merciful, because too often it’s, I’m not good enough. I don’t do things right. God doesn’t want anything to do with me. When that is simply not true. God wants everything to do with you.

John Bytheway: 39:00 Yeah. Is it section 64? “I the Lord forgive sins.” I just love underlining that. And can I add one more? Alma 33:16, “Thou art angry, oh Lord with his people because they will not understand thy mercies which thou has bestowed upon them because of thy son.” And notice, they will not understand. What’s the difference between will not and cannot?

Hank Smith: 39:23 I know it’s there, I just refuse.

John Bytheway: 39:25 I refuse. I can’t forgive myself maybe, they will not understand thy mercies. And I’ve always loved that verse, that no, it’s not just about everybody else. That’s about you too.

Michael McLean: 39:38 I had a heart attack a year ago and the first song that came to me after I recovered from my heart attack, this is so great, this is a tiny short song, but it ties in exactly John, with what you were talking about. This is what Heavenly Father sent me. God said, love your enemy. I cried for help. My heart had frozen up on me, and it won’t melt. I fought the inner demon since I was just a child, I’ve been kicking and I’ve been screaming, because I could not be reconciled, but God said, love your enemy. And so I’ve prayed to see things so differently and not be afraid, to find a way to love him, to change the way I felt about my life long enemy, the one I’ve fought relentlessly, but now my heart is teaching me that I can love myself. I think today I can obey and finally love myself.

Hank Smith: 41:08 That’s beautiful. That is fantastic, Michael. It fits exactly with what we were talking about there, Psalm 136, “For his mercy endureth forever.”

John Bytheway: 41:25 Endureth forever.

Hank Smith: 41:27 Michael, John, I feel like we are just, in our episode today, we’re just feeling the spirit of the Psalms. I was interested in where the name of the lesson in the manual came from this week. The lesson is entitled, let everything that hath breath, praise the Lord. And that is actually the last verse of the Psalms. The parting thought from the Psalms is let everything that hath breath, praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord. I feel like we’ve done that a little bit today, Michael.

Michael McLean: 42:00 And thinking about how we’ve talked about the light so much and the light that’s in and all through things and that guides our path and how we praise it. Think of this as my praise song about the source of that light. I believe there’s a light, and it shines in everyone. And I believe it’s the light of the world. And I believe there’s a voice that whispers there’s a choice, and our joy will come from choosing what is right. And always seeking his light that shines in one and all, and lifts us when we fall. And it answers when we call, I believe there’s a light that shines in everyone. Yes, I believe it’s the light of the world.

Michael McLean: 43:14 And I believe there’s a voice that whispers there’s a choice. And the joy will come from choosing what is right. And always seeking his light that shines in one and all and lifts us when we fall and answers when we call. It’s the saviors light I’m singing of, he is the light, the truth and the light. Celebrating the light, it shines in everyone. We’re celebrating the light of the world, and we all can rejoice when a heart makes the choice to reflect the joy and keep it shining bright by celebrating the light. And our joy will burn so bright when we follow his light. Celebrating the light.

Hank Smith: 44:50 Absolutely wonderful. When you tap into the spirit of the Psalms with songs themselves.

John Bytheway: 44:58 Hank, I think I’ve told you this, but in our stake, we have a Spanish branch, a Portuguese branch, and we actually have an Alzheimer’s branch, a memory center. We have a branch presidency there. When I was on the high council, I’d have a chance to go speak there sometimes they’re just looking for speakers. And the fun part is, and you’ll love this, Michael, they’ll say, “Is there any chance you could sing instead of speak?” Because something happens to those folks when you start using music, there’s a part of them that wakes up and they’ll start singing with you, songs that they knew in their childhood. So I get up there and try to give a talk, but usually I’d grab one of my kids, take my Michael McLean guitar and say, “Let’s just sing I’m a Child of God for them today.” And they start singing with you. Their spouses just love it when their spouse kind of wakes up, comes back a little bit, and it’s magical what music can do that way. And I’ve seen it happen, it’s pretty cool.

Michael McLean: 45:57 My dad had Alzheimer’s and lived with us and we went through all of that ordeal. And at the end he started saying, “I’m sorry I don’t know your name,” look at me, and then he’d say, “But I’m pretty sure I like you.” And I said, “Okay, dad, I’ll take that.” In his final hours, this is a really sweet memory that I hadn’t thought of till now about songs. My dad was on morphine, he would wake up, they’d give him morphine, and of course with his Alzheimer’s, he didn’t know where he was so he would panic. It was just really sad. And my mother had died a year earlier, but he was in this facility and I called my son, Jeff, the singer, who was doing Legally Blonde, national tour of Legally Blonde. And I said, “Grandpa’s gone.”

Michael McLean: 46:46 And of course he gets on the plane and he comes, and this is the thing that got me. He came and sat with us and when my father would wake up terrified, I mean, you can’t bear to see your dad that scared, not know where he was and ready for his next injection of morphine. My son would sing, acapella, his favorite hymns. Like you said, John, something happens to the… He calmed down. The agony was not the same.

Michael McLean: 47:18 Years ago, Truman Madsen invited Jeff and I to go with him to Liberty Jail when he was showing some of his former missionaries, given a tour of that period. And of course we loved him and the way he talked about the prophet Joseph, but when we were in Carthage Jail, after two days of Truman telling the great Truman stories, he turns to Jeff and said, “Could you sing seven versus acapella of A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief so that we can kind of set the tone before I bear my witness about what happened?” And there’s my kid, like he did with my dad, singing, just a voice, those songs and those messages in that way. And to think that the prophet Joseph, knowing that the end was coming, would say, “Could you sing to me?” The comfort and the power like you said, with the Alzheimer’s, I don’t care who you are, could you sing to me? We grow up with our mothers singing melodies to us, singing lullabies to us. It’s one of the great gifts for sure.

Hank Smith: 48:32 When you tap into the spirit of the Psalms with songs themselves, I think we’ve gotten to the purpose of why these are recorded for us. Before we let him go, John, we need to have Michael play and sing some of these songs that we all know so well.

Michael McLean: 48:49 Oh, here’s one, speaking of teachers. I had a Sunday school class of 15 year olds and we were teaching the scriptures and I woke up one morning in a panic at five o’clock because the lesson that day was about how the good shepherd leaves the 90 and nine to go after the lost soul. And I thought, wait a second. This is a message that Jesus is going to leave the ones who showed up to church to go find the inactive guy that’s out there. And I said, this is not going to work for the… I had a class that was so faithful that they recited the 14th article of faith, which is, we believe in meetings, we hope for meetings, we’ve endured many meetings. We’ll have to be able to endure all meetings. If there are excuses for meetings, we seek after… I mean, these kids never missed a meeting. These are the most faithful kids in the world.

Michael McLean: 49:49 And I thought, how does this relate to them? It’s almost as if we’re saying, if you want a lot of attention from Jesus, go get drunk and leave and then, oh, we’re going to go find you, because then you’ll be precious in his… I mean, I didn’t know what to do. And of course I turned then to my language and it turns out that the song was the lesson. So what I did, I didn’t live that far, I live in a big log house with a cool Grand Piano.

Michael McLean: 50:19 So I drove the van over to the church, I loaded all the kids. I said, “We’re having church at the piano in my house today. Come.” And I also picked up some chocolate milk. And so if I got a donut and a chocolate milk, we’re going to be fine. So I bring my little class and I said, “This is the lesson. You don’t have to talk about it if you don’t want to. You don’t have to editorialize on it. You don’t have to pontificate it. You don’t have to do anything but listen, eat your donuts and chocolate cake and I’ll take you back to church. This was my lesson.”

Michael McLean: 51:00 I am one of the 90 and nine. I’m not perfect, but basically I’m doing fine, I have not lost my way. And I’m not going to stray. I’m just one of the 90 and nine. And I’m here in the heart of the fold. I’m not mindless, but I try to do like I’m told. I’m not tempted to run or become the lost one, I’m just here in the heart of the fold. So why is my shepherd coming this way towards me? He’s holding his arms out and he’s calling my name. Yes, he’s calling my name.

Michael McLean: 51:46 How can this be? You see I’m just one of the 90 and nine. I’ve stumbled and fallen, but I’ve kept in line. I’m not one he must seek, I’m not that unique. I’m just one of the 90 and nine. So why is my shepherd treating me like a lost lamb? He’s searching to find me and he’s holding me now. Yes, he’s holding me now. And he’s teaching me who I am. So why am I feeling like I’m the only one here? It’s like I’m his favorite, and he takes me aside, and he sweetly confides these remarkable words in my ear. He says, “You’re one of the 90 and nine. Have you any idea how brightly you shine? You are safe in this fold and this time you were told,” sorry, “that I know where you’ve been. So I know where you’ll be because all your life you’ve been following me. You are more than just one of those sands of the sea or just one of the 90 at nine. No kids, you are mine. You are mine. You are mine. Yes, you’re mine. Guess I’m one of the 90 and nine.”

Hank Smith: 54:06 Absolutely wonderful. What a day with Michael McLean. John, we have been so blessed today.

Michael McLean: 54:14 Well, thank you so much for having me. I’m kind of empty now, and for a guy who who’s hoping that transplant can’t come too soon, but I want you to know that I have a couple hours a day that I am kind of functional, and I was energized by just being around you, partly out of respect for you. And partly out of love for what you’re doing. But I just told Heavenly Father as I was driving here, I said, “Help me be present enough to not pick a song that I want to sing, but a song that you would have me sing. Help me somehow navigate my way through these insights that these wonderful gospel scholars that are fun and wonderful and spiritual that’ll be there, and help me not fall apart. Help me just get through to the end.” And for me, this is it now, I am done.

Michael McLean: 55:10 And I’m going to get home and take a nap for a couple days. I want you to know, and I hope you feel how deeply I mean this, I love you. I love your uniqueness. I love the way you see things. I love the way you study things. I love the way you interpret things. I love the willingness that you are to know how to quote. I just think you’re great, and you’ve been placed in my life and it’s a blessing to me, and I’m sure many others. You don’t need this validation, I know, but I just want you to know so no matter what my future may hold that you know my friend, my songwriter buddy, Michael McLean really, really loves me. Amen.

Hank Smith: 56:02 We love you too, Michael. We love you too. We are praying for you. And we know all of our listeners will say a prayer for you.

John Bytheway: 56:10 Absolutely.

Hank Smith: 56:12 That the transplant will go well. We want to thank Michael McLean for being with us today. We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorensen. We want to thank our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. We hope you’ll join us next week as we come back with another episode of Follow Him.