John Bythway: 00:02 Welcome to Part II of this week’s podcast.

Hank Smith: 00:07 Before we move on, let’s just talk a little bit more about Obadiah. Don’t you just love him? He’s so real. Like, “Hey, I’m doing my best here and you’re asking me to put myself out there in a way I…”

John Bythway: 00:22 You’re going to blow my cover. I’ve been feeding these guys. And what if he kills me? Who’s going to feed my 100 small P prophets here?

Hank Smith: 00:31 The widow of Zarephath is so faithful. Elijah is so faithful. I feel like an Obadiah. Faithful, but like, “I know what’s going to happen. I’m going to be hung out to dry here.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 00:42 But nevertheless, I’ll do it. I’ll do it.

Hank Smith: 00:47 I just wanted to mention that, that I think I can identify with Obadiah going, “Hey, I am faithful. That’s a lot to ask.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 00:53 You can’t prove it but there’s a lot of connections that many scholars have said the widow whose oil is multiplied in 2 Kings Chapter 4, she talks about her husband and what a great faithful man he was. Some have wondered if that isn’t Obadiah. So it’s a fun thing. I always like to consider it as a possibility when you see that Obadiah may have died. He may have been killed. We don’t see him again after this, but we see a widow and it might be his widow. And how Elijah, the prophet, is going to help her out in her tremendous need. We don’t know what happens to Obadiah.

Hank Smith: 01:33 I like him. And I just like the way you told the story. “You want me to what?”

John Bythway: 01:39 Okay. He’ll kill me, but okay.

Dr. Camille Olson: 01:44 Yes. But I’ll do it. Look at this. Isn’t this another one of our habits as well? When things go wrong and we know we haven’t followed the Lord, we’d love to find someone else to blame it on. Verse 17, It came to pass,  when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said, “Aren’t thou he, the trouble of Israel? You are the one that has brought this famine upon us.”

John Bythway: 02:06 And this is one of those places where I feel like there’s so many different ways to define Israel. He’s talking about political or the land of Israel right here.

Dr. Camille Olson: 02:17 Yes.

John Bythway: 02:17 Because when we say “Hurrah for Israel,” we’re talking about the House of Israel.

Dr. Camille Olson: 02:22 And covenant Israel, under the covenant.

John Bythway: 02:25 A group of people there. But he’s talking about my land, my country that I’m king over.

Dr. Camille Olson: 02:30 My kingdom. I’m king. Good point.

John Bythway: 02:32 You’re the one troubling my Israel. And there’s so many different ways to look at Israel. You have to look at context, because it can be confusing who he’s talking about. But it’s funny that, “Oh no, you’re the trouble, Ahab. It’s not me.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 02:46 Yeah. Let’s see. Who was it that forsook the commandments of the LORD–of Jehovah? “And thou hast followed Baalim.” Baalim is the actual Hebrew. The I am is masculine plural. So that’s the whole Pantheon. You see Asherah and Yam and Mot and Anot all in there as well.

Dr. Camille Olson: 03:08 Here, Elijah sets up a contest. And he’s saying, put down the gauntlet. Let’s put a contest between our gods. You have your whole pantheon and, “Oh, let’s throw in all your prophets that are around that you haven’t killed. And neither have we killed them. Thank you. They’re still around here. Almost a thousand of them. We get 450 prophets of Ba’al and 400 prophets of the groves.” So what are we talking about? These are Asherah’s. Jezebel would be very intertwined here with the prophets of the groves, which eat at Jezebel’s table.

Dr. Camille Olson: 03:44 And let’s go to Mount Carmel. Do you see the -el on there? That doesn’t surprise us that that would have the name of God in it. It literally means, “vineyard of God”. And we’ve already described Mount Carmel. It is just verdant, green, lush with vegetation. So Elijah chooses a spot that would be ideal for the worship of Ba’al. And he says, “ring all your prophets, those false prophets that you claim are prophets.” And then he makes this famous question in verse 21.

John Bythway: 04:20 Such a great question.

Dr. Camille Olson: 04:22 Isn’t it?

John Bythway: 04:23 “How long halt ye between two opinions?” You’re right on the fence. “How long halt ye between two opinions?”

Dr. Camille Olson: 04:31 The Hebrew word is in the idea. You’re not paralyzed there between those. You’re actually waffling back and forth. It’s kind of the word limp. You’re limping. You kind of go over there and then you go, oh, maybe this is better over here. Then back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Vacillating. How long limp you between being fascinated and entranced by the world and all the world says is important and what that God says? How long halt ye, limp ye between two opinions? If Jehovah be God, then follow him. But if Baal, then follow him. Make up your mind. Don’t try to hedge your bets on everything and think you can appease them all and get the blessings from all of them. “And the people answered him, not a word. “Then Elijah says unto the people, ah, these are Israelites. These are people who have the heritage of the covenant. Even I only remain a prophet of the LORD.

John Bythway: 05:34 Of Jehovah, just the yeah, small caps. It really helps to see it here when it’s this contest like this.

Dr. Camille Olson: 05:41 I agree. But Ba’al’s prophets are 450 men. And then we can add 400 of Asherah’s. I think Elijah feels alone. Later, the Lord is going to tell him that there are some faithful ones still in Israel, but you don’t know them. They’re frightened of Ahab and Jezebel. Elijah feels alone. I just think anytime that we have ever felt alone as a lone believer in an environment where people are saying, you have no idea what you’re talking about. This is not true. There’s Elijah. And then he says, “Okay, here’s let’s get two bullocks.” Now go back to the pantheon. Who’s represented? You get the chief God, El, there is. You go get two of those and you choose one for yourself. You can have the first choice. You could choose the one that you think is the very best. And then cut it in pieces and lay it on wood.

Dr. Camille Olson: 06:39 Who’s the wood? There’s the groves, Asherah, and put no fire under it. I will dress the other bullock and lay it on wood and put no fire under. So it’s Even Steven. This is, we’re doing the very same thing. And then we’re going to each call upon our gods and I will call him the name of Jehovah. You call on all your gods. You’ve got a bunch of them. Go ahead, grab any of them. And the God that answereth by fire, let him be the true God. And they all, all the people, oh, this is a good, oh great. Yes. That’s great.

Hank Smith: 07:17 Sounds like the first reality television show. Right? Live audience. Let’s see what happens.

Dr. Camille Olson: 07:25 That is great. The tension is going to be building here.

Hank Smith: 07:29 Yeah.

Dr. Camille Olson: 07:30 And so here come all the profits of Ba’al. They dress the bullock, put it on the wood, and then they start in verse 26 “From the morning until noon, they are crying out to Baal. O, ye sky, God, send down fire, your lightning bolt. Please consume this, a sacrifice. But there was no voice nor any that answered. So they leap on the altar. They’re trying to get his attention, dancing, leaping. And at noon, Elijah just starts mocking them. “O, cry louder for he’s a God. Get his attention. He’s either talking or he’s off hunting or on a journey or talking to somebody else. Maybe he’s sleeping. Talk louder. Or maybe got to wake him up.”

Hank Smith: 08:17 My word. This is fantastic.

John Bythway: 08:20 Did their legends talk about their god’s doing stuff like this?

Dr. Camille Olson: 08:25 Oh yeah. Yes. That would be a rationale for what? Them not answering.

John Bythway: 08:28 It’s .. he’s not just making that up. In their legends, that’s what they’re god, he does stuff. I mean, you were talking about that pantheon, how they hated each other and more of a human sounding, dysfunctional pantheon.

Hank Smith: 08:40 “Cry louder. He must be asleep.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 08:46 And so in verse 28, what do they start doing? Cutting themselves. See, that’s another way that they could get his attention. And now it is midday has passed. And now it’s the time of the evening sacrifice and to verse 29, “There was neither voice nor any to answer nor any that regarded.” And so Elijah said to all the people, “Okay, thank you. That’s been an all day experience. Thank you very much. I’ll try  on my side.” And he brings the people come near and to me. Now get this. And all the people came near into him and he repaired the altar of the LORD.  The altar of Jehovah that was broken down. What does that tell you there on Mount Carmel? There must have been a place there to worship. Yeah. There used to be, but see Jezebel and Ahab tore down all those places to worship Jehovah. How does he build up the altar now for this one? He does it specifically with 12 stones and the 12 stones to remember 12 tribes of Israel. This is bringing the Israelites back to their very roots.

Hank Smith: 09:59 Yeah. This is like getting out your colonial hat and your Star Spangled Banner to remember your history.

Dr. Camille Olson: 10:05 He built this altar in the name of the Lord, but he now is going to add something. He’s going to put a trench all around the altar. He puts the wood in order. So you got Asherah there, you got El there. And then he puts four barrels of water. There’s Yam, right? The sea God. And he pours it on, soaks the bowl and also the wood. And then he does it a second time and a third time. So how many times? He does it around four times each of those three times. So 12 times, he’s drenching it with water and now it comes verse 36. The time of the evening sacrifice.

Hank Smith: 10:46 You just, I didn’t catch that. The 12. ‘Cause it’s four barrels of water three times.

Dr. Camille Olson: 10:52 Yeah. So you get 12 again there. So things are saturated and verse 36. He then prays to Jehovah. Now notice how he, the words here, Jehovah, God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel. So again, reminding him this, Jacob. It’s Israel, this is the God of Israel. Let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel. And that I am thy servant, that I have done all these things at thy word. Notice how he gives credit, and notice how he’s sending the focus on Jehovah. And then this is kind of like the Shema in Deuteronomy six, isn’t it? “Hear O Israel. The Lord, our God is one God. And thou shalt love the Lord, thy God, with all thy heart, might, mind, and strength.” Here he says, “Hear me, O [Jehovah], hear me that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, [Jehovah God], nd that thou hast turned their heart back again.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 11:55 And suddenly just like that, the fire of the LORD fell and consumes this wet bullock and the wet wood and the stones. Oh, I forgot to mention that the stones, the 12 stones, that could be a nod to the other fertility goddess and the dust. There’s a nod as well. And licked up the water that was in the trench. Yam is no more.

Dr. Camille Olson: 12:21 And the people saw it and they fell on their faces. And they said, “O Jehovah. He is the God.” Yes, Jehovah. He is the God with that. Then Elijah follows the law of Moses. I’ve got a cross reference on verse 40 to Deuteronomy 17 verses 1-7,where the law of Moses says, if you have Israelites that truly go out after and worship other gods, you put them to death. Deuteronomy 17 one through seven, because he now says, “Okay, you people take the prophets of Ba’al and let not one of them escape. And they took them down to the brook Kishon, which is there at the base of Mount Carmel, and he slew them there. In essence, there’s Mot the death, the god of the underworld. And Elijah said into Ahab, “Okay, get thee up. Eat and drink.” That’s usually what you do when you’re victorious in a battle, right?

Dr. Camille Olson: 13:22 It’s saying Elijah is victorious and he’s making Ahab eat and drink. Yeah. This is part of his irony and sarcasm to him. Yeah.

Hank Smith: 13:31 Here comes the rain.

Dr. Camille Olson: 13:32 And then he goes up, they eat and drink. And Elijah went up top of Mount Carmel and he cast himself down upon the earth and he put his face between his knees. Here he is. This is a prayer again. And he said to his servant, “Go up now. Look toward the sea.” And he went up and looked and said, “There’s nothing, because where would you see?” That would be the way the storms would come. So you’d go out there on that point that goes out over the sea on three sides. There’s nothing. He goes, “Go back.” And they go back seven times. There’s symbolic seven too. Isn’t it? And on the seventh time, there arose this little cloud.

Dr. Camille Olson: 14:10 And then he said, okay, go up and say to Ahab, “Prepare thy chariot and get thee down so that the rain stopped thee not.” Remember in the story of Barack and Deborah, the prophetess with the Canaanites that the chariots got stuck in the mud because of the water. Well, it hasn’t started raining, but this seems to be very similar that this is him saying, “Ahab, you get on your chariot and you ride back to your capital. Get down before the rain starts. There’s not a drop of water anyway.. There’s a little cloud out there.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 14:42 It came to pass in the meanwhile that the heaven was black with clouds, just like that, and Ahab road and went to Jezreel. But verse 46, “The hand of Jehovah was on Elijah.” And he goes on foot. Supposedly, this is about 20 miles. You got to say Elijah knew how to travel and who gets to Jezreel first? It is Elijah that makes it before Ahab does. Probably he got stuck in the mud there because of all the rain. So there is another way that it seems like that this story is saying Jehovah is more powerful. Elijah can go on foot faster than Ahab can make it. Cool chapter.

John Bythway: 15:25 I thought I knew about this chapter. This is so great.

Dr. Camille Olson: 15:28 We’ve got the prophets, but he’s called. Elijah has called. He’s doing this to help the heart of the Israelites as a whole. So there would’ve been probably a multitude of just your everyday Israelites around. That’s who he’s saying, “Choose.” “How long halt ye between two opinions?” How long are you going to limp between these? He’s not trying to convert Ahab. Ahab is … he’s gone and these priests, but he’s saying there’s some people and you keep going back and forth. Ahab’s not going back and forth, but the people are. Truly, if it had been the other way around, which we know it never would have, but had prophets of Baal been victorious, they would have certainly taken Elijah’s life.

Hank Smith: 16:11 I was going to say, yeah, there’s so much in 18. You could learn from Ahab, right? “Art thou  the trouble with Israel?” This idea that we love to blame other people. We look everywhere else. We blame the Church. We blame our parents. We blame even the weather for my problems, except for myself. And then how long halt ye between of two opinions. That could be the title of my autobiography. How long halt ye between two opinions? When are you going to put both feet in?

John Bythway: 16:39 I’ve heard you use the phrase, Hank, don’t confuse who are your friends and who are your enemies. There’s a time when the Nephites think that King Noah is their friend and Abinadi is their enemy, when it’s exactly the opposite. “Art thou he that trouble with Israel?” Well, actually Ahab. You’re the one who’s troubling Israel, Kingdom of Israel, maybe as well as House of Israel, right?

Hank Smith: 17:00 Take responsibility for your own decisions. And then I noticed, Camille, as you were talking about, they’re calling upon this other God, and there’s no answer.

John Bythway: 17:10 There’s nothing. There’s crickets.

Dr. Camille Olson: 17:13 Was that Deuteronomy or Numbers where it says you will have gods that have eyes, but do not see and ears, but do not hear. And…

John Bythway: 17:21 Yeah, and there’s a Psalm that says that too. It’s like 119 or something.

Hank Smith: 17:26 It reminds me of the hymn, “Where Can I Turn for Peace?” Isn’t it? Where can I turn for peace?/Where is my solace when other sources cease to make me whole?/That there was no voice;/I call, I ask, I beg.

John Bythway: 17:40 They start cutting themselves.

Dr. Camille Olson: 17:41 And what is interesting is in Chapter 19 through our last chapter, there is a time that Elijah will experience where it seems like God is silent. The Lord sometimes answers us with silence. We need to be prepared for that as well.

John Bythway: 17:58 Yeah. Elijah has a moment of, “Just take my life.”

Hank Smith: 18:02 Sometimes you get the fire of the Lord immediately. And then other times …

John Bythway: 18:06 What are you going to do when the fire doesn’t come type of thing?

Dr. Camille Olson: 18:09 Chapter 18 is very dramatic. It was dramatic for a people who really couldn’t make up their minds, who really weren’t ready to commit. They were ready to blame somebody else for when things went bad. “Oh, then that must be that God. Oh, this works.” So, I’ll give credit to this God, and the Lord is much more overt with them. He wants to make sure there is no question in their relatively immature unsophisticated faith to get them back on board, but he will bring Elijah to greater tests, not just tests, but ways that strengthen and make Elijah much more like the one he serves. He really is a type of Christ through much of this.

Dr. Camille Olson: 19:01 You think about the Savior on Golgotha, on the cross. “My God, my God. Why hast thou forsaken me?” Definitely the Savior knew about feeling alone. Elijah knows about feeling alone and he will, we’ll see that again in Chapter 19, but he knows the Father and he is not swayed at all. He remains steadfast and immovable and goes through with whatever the Father asks of him. You see faith at every level in these chapters too. Don’t you?

Hank Smith: 19:39 All right. To take us through 19.

Dr. Camille Olson: 19:42 Okay. All right. I know. You think we just build up Jezebel and where is she? First one, Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done. Oh, would you love to be a fly on the wall to see Jezebel’s reaction? How he had slain all the prophets with the sword, and Jezebel sent a messenger into Elijah saying, “So let the gods do to me and more also if I make not by life as the life of one of them by tomorrow about this time.”

Hank Smith: 20:11 Oh, my word.

Dr. Camille Olson: 20:12 She’s threatened. And when he saw that, Elijah, he arose and went for his life. I mean, he doesn’t stick around. I think you just say he is petrified of Jezebel. And I think as much as you’ve seen the people the day before, perhaps say, oh yeah, Jehovah. He is God. Oh yeah. That’s the one. I think Elijah knows they’re fickle.

Dr. Camille Olson: 20:40 They really still can start waffling again if something bad happens. And so he takes off and he goes down to Beersheba, which is another hundred miles away. These distances that he is going are remarkable.

Hank Smith: 20:54 Right. He’s a traveler.

Dr. Camille Olson: 20:57 He went a day’s journey into the wilderness from Beersheba. And he came and sat down under a juniper tree. And there he has requested for himself that he might die. I think he’s saying I’ve done a good work. I think it’s it. I can’t handle it anymore.

Hank Smith: 21:13 Too much stress.

Dr. Camille Olson: 21:14 So he’s so discouraged. I don’t think he’s seeing the people really coming to the fore as he would hope. And he said, it’s enough now. “O, Lord Jehovah, take away my life for I am not better than my fathers.” It’s a discouragement. And an angel touches him. He eats. You’ve been going, you’ve been traveling a lot. You’ve got to get strong again. And so he eats and then a second time, verse 7. He does it.

Dr. Camille Olson: 21:49 And he, the angel awakens him and verse 8, where does he go? All the way down to Mount Sinai. Remember Horeb is another word for Sinai, the mount of God. So he’s gone. Remember that in Deuteronomy, we saw that the distance between Sinai and Kadesh Barnea, which is not far from where Beersheba is, was 11 days, but they took 38 years to travel it. Well here, he’s just done it probably in about 11 days and he’s lodging there. And now it’s the word of the Lord comes to him in verse 9. “What doest thou here?” You think of how many days it’s been pretty quiet. He just says, “I’ve had it. I just don’t think I can do anything more”. I mean, do we have days? Do we have weeks? Do we have months like this?

Dr. Camille Olson: 22:43 And he said, “I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars and slain the prophets with the sword. I, even I alone, am left and they seek my life to take it away.” You say, it’s not just Jezebel seeking his life. The people will get it to please Jezebel. You feel for this man, this wonderful man. And he said, “Go forth and stand upon the mount before the Lord.” That’s the Lord’s answer. Go there on Mount Sinai, just like Moses did. The Lord passed by and here we go. The Lord is going to teach him something else. I taught the people up there at Mount Carmel, with drama, with the fire coming down out of heaven and licking up water. They saw it.

Hank Smith: 23:36 And nothing really changed.

John Bythway: 23:37 Visual display.

Dr. Camille Olson: 23:39 The Lord is going to teach Elijah a more refined and perhaps more long living, a testimony, a witness that has more longevity than anything they saw on Mount Carmel. Remember president Joseph Fielding Smith taught, “The Spirit of God speaking to the spirit of man has power to impart truth with greater effect and understanding then the truth can be imparted by personal contact, even with heavenly beings. Through the holy ghost, the truth is woven into the very fiber and sinews of the body so that it cannot be forgotten.” That’s Elder Joseph Fielding Smith from The Instructor, October, 1935, but I believe you find it in the manual, Presidents of the Church for Joseph Fielding Smith. It’s in there. And that would be a great reference for this.

John Bythway: 24:39 Hmm, absolutely.

Dr. Camille Olson: 24:41 Just keeping that in mind, look at chapter 19, verse 11, the Lord says, “Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and break in pieces the rocks before the LORD.” Matthew can see the Canaanite saying, “Yep, there’s Baal.” Baal is here, but the Lord was not in the wind.

Dr. Camille Olson: 25:07 “And after the wind an earthquake,” can you see, and not the earth, the soil, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. “And after the earthquake, a fire;: that lightning or fire coming from, but the Lord was not in the fire, “And after the fire, a still, small voice. And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice came to him and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?” Now it’s coming through that still, small voice that he’s going to learn this. As he says for the third time, “I have been very jealous for the LORD, God of hosts: because the children of the Lord have forsaken thy covenant,  thrown down thine altars and slain the prophets. And I, even I alone am left, and they seek my life to take it away.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 26:02 But he will now teach him through this still, small voice. I think there’s a lot to unpackage in those few verses and the manner in which the Lord speaks with him and what Elijah does in covering himself, encircling himself with this mantle. When I think of this mantle and we see in 1 Kings 1:8, it’s called “hairy.” It’s like animal skin. John the Baptist is kind of likened to him because of the camel hair that he wears. Whenever I see this, I think back to Adam and Eve in the Garden, and that they were given a covering of an animal skin by the Lord Jehovah and the way this mantle as it’s called here, Elijah reverences it. And that we see it in the rest of this chapter.

Dr. Camille Olson: 26:53 Again, I wonder if there isn’t something in this, as far as a token, as far as a symbol of the Lord’s covering, like he gave to Adam and Eve and like in a sense that we can receive today, when we make covenants with the Lord. You remember kōp̄er in Hebrew, it means covering. And so I feel a reverence that he uses as he wraps his face in this mantle after hearing the still, small voice that just pierces him as Joseph Fielding Smith said probably going right to his DNA, every fiber and tissue of his being. So it’s in that context then, that verse 15, the Lord says, “Now I want you to go to Damascus.” That’s 500 miles in the other direction and anoint a king there, a king for Syria, Hazael, and Jehu. When you get down to Israel, he’s going to be the king after Ahab, because Ahab’s days are going to be numbered here. Jehu, the king over Israel.

Dr. Camille Olson: 28:01 And oh, by the way, I’ve got one to take your place. You’re not leaving before there is one to take your place. And who does he choose to take his place? A man by the name of Elisha and anoint him to be a prophet in thy room in thy place. Off he goes right back up to Syria and then to Israel right there in the shadow. I mean an anoints a king when Ahab is still alive. I mean, again, this is playing with fuego, isn’t it? I think one of the best things he tells him is verse 18. “Yet I have left me 7,000 in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.” There are 7,000 faithful worshipers of Jehovah who have kept the covenant. That’s going to be the foundation for a ministry that Elijah and Elisha are going to serve together. We’ll say goodbye to Elijah in Chapter 2, I think it is of 2 Kings, and Elisha will serve alone, but for about seven years or so, it seems like Elijah and Elisha are serving together.

Dr. Camille Olson: 29:17 This is the way Elisha learns about it. Verse 19 of Chapter 19, “He departed thence and found Elisha, son of Shaphat, who was plowing with 12 yoke of oxen before him.” He’s out working in the field. The fact that he has 12 oxen might be an indicator that he’s quite well to do. “And he was with the twelfth [ox], when Elijah passed by him and cast his mantle upon him.” This is the very setting where we talk about, I mean, we feel it. That April Conference of 2018 when President Nelson, that Solemn Assembly when he was sustained as the new pProphet, and you could feel it. The mantle came upon him. It is here. Elijah puts his mantle upon Elisha and immediately Elisha left the oxen and ran after Elijah and said, “Let me say goodbye to my mother and father and I’ll follow you.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 30:24 And so he goes back, he sacrifices a yoke of oxen as evidence. This is something very sacred. He knows that and then follows up and goes after him. And this partnership is a dynamic duo. They are incredible. Elisha’s name means, “my God is salvation, my God is my help.” And so his name also makes a reference to  Chapter 2 of 2 Kings. And we shouldn’t go, but just to kind of tie it in 2 Kings Chapter two is when Elijah now is taken up, the Lord does take him, not with death, but he’s translated and his mantle, that same mantle, falls off and falls onto Elisha. And he becomes the capital P Prophet among all these great people in the land of Israel.

Hank Smith: 31:20 Ahab and Jezebel end up having a demise.

Dr. Camille Olson: 31:24 I think Chapter 21 of 1 Kings is not in the reading assignment, but if you want to get the real true heart and soul of Jezebel, you got to read Chapter 21. Chapter 21 of 1 Kings, if you want to know Jezebel and why her name still today is a synonym for evil incarnate, right? “It came to pass after these things, that Naboth the Jezreelite had a vineyard, which was in Jezreel, hard by the palace of Ahab King of Samaria.” So Naboth is probably of the tribe of Ephraim. His family has inherited this. It’s been handed down all the way since Joshua led the children of Israel here. It is his inheritance. He cannot sell it. He will not sell. It is sacred to his family. Ahab wants it. And he goes, “Oh, please give this to me. I will do greater things with it than you have. And it’s worth a lot of money and I’ll give you a whole lot of money for it.” And Naboth said, “No, I won’t do it. I can’t do it.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 32:32 Verse 3. “The Lord forbid it me, that I should give the inheritance of my fathers unto thee.” So Nahab goes home and he just mopes and sulks and lays himself on his bed and turns away his face and won’t eat anything. And it’s just not fair. And Jezebel comes home and says, “Why is thy nice spirit so sad that thou eatest  no bread?” And he goes, “Because I spake to Naboth the Jezreelite, and he said, I asked him for his vineyard or with money. And he said, ‘No, he won’t give it.’”

Dr. Camille Olson: 33:05 Here’s Jezebel. Verse 7. “Dost thou now govern the kingdom of Israel? Arise and eat bread and let thine heart be merry. I’ll give thee vineyard of Naboth the Jezreelite.” Oh, you know, “Act like a king. I know how to get you that.” And how does she do it? She gets people to bear false witness against Naboth and charge him with blasphemy. And as a result, they put Naboth to death and Jezebel comes back to Ahab and said, “Well, there you go. Naboth is dead. The vineyard is yours.” And as a result of that, Elijah comes down on them. Verse 19, Elijah says to Ahab, “Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou killed, and also taken possession? And thou shall speak unto him, [Ahab] saying, Thus saith the LORD in the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth shall dogs lick thy blood even thine.” Spoiler alert: that is going to happen to Ahab. But I love this verse 23, “And of Jezebel also spake the LORD, saying the dog shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 34:18 How are the prophecies fulfilled? Just because you might not get this in your reading assignment, check it out. 1 Kings 22 verse 34 is the battle that Ahab is involved in. And the king in verse 35 has been shot. And he stayed up in his chariot against the Syrians and died at even. And the blood ran out of the wound. And then verse 38 after they had come to kind of clean up the chariots verse 38 says, “And one washed the chariot in the pool of Samaria and the dogs licked up his blood and they washed his armor according to the word of the LORD, which he spake.” Yeah, you don’t get her demise until clear over in 2 King 9. She is feeling pretty sassy. It always seems like about life always because she seems invincible.

Dr. Camille Olson: 35:10 But remember when Elijah was sent up to Israel to anoint the next king, Jehu? Well, verse 30, Jehu comes after Elijah tells him, yep. Ahab is dead. You go take over. Jehu comes into Jezreel and Jezebel heard of it. And she painted her face and “tired her head” and fixed up her hair, put on her makeup, looking just as gorgeous as she can. And she looks out at the window and Jehu appeared at the gate and said, “Had Zimri peace, who slew thy master?”

Dr. Camille Olson: 35:49 Zimri was a former king up in the Northern Kingdom. And he was only king for one day. And so she’s kind of like taunting him saying, “Oh, you think you’re king? No, this is curtains for you.” And then he lifts up his face to the window and asks two or three eunuchs who were there. And he says, “Throw her down.” So they threw her down and some of her blood was sprinkled on the wall and on the horses. And he, Jehu, trod her underfoot. And when he was come in, he did eat and drink and said, “Go see now that cursed woman and bury her: for she is the king’s daughter.” And when they go out, all they find of her is her skull, and the feet, and the palms of her hand.

Hank Smith: 36:38 My goodness.

Dr. Camille Olson: 36:38 Nothing more to bury. So yeah, it’s a mighty demise. I just have to add one more. And I know this is way beyond the chapters we were assigned, but you’ve just got to see. When the Lord says Ahab did more evil than all those before. Guess what? Ahab and Jezebel have a daughter and anyone who says women are innately more spiritual or just lovely and they don’t do anything wrong. One, you’ve got Jezebel, but we have Prime Example #2: they have a daughter named Athaliah and they married her to whom? To get more leverage and control and power and treaty, alliance with the Southern kingdom, with Judah, they marry Athaliah to the son of the king of Judah. And the time will come that her husband, Jehoram, becomes king of Judah and dies.

Dr. Camille Olson: 37:37 And Athaliah will kill all of her sons and all of her grandsons. It’s the only time you see a woman ruling on her own as Queen over Judah. She has a demise like her grandmother, but Athaliah, Athaliah the daughter of Ahab in Jezebel rules in the Southern Kingdom, taints the Southern Kingdom with the worship of Ba’al and Asherah and Anat and Yam and Mot as well. Bad seed, this family.

Hank Smith: 38:10 John, you’ll have to help me here. Jezebel reminds me of a Amalickiah when she says, “I’m going to kill him.” Right? Doesn’t Amalickiah say, “I’m going to drink the blood?”

John Bythway: 38:18 “I swore to drink Moroni’s blood.” Yeah.

Hank Smith: 38:21 And what does Mormon say at that point? “We shall see.”

John Bythway: 38:24 “Thus, while Amalickiah had been obtaining power by fraud and deceit, Moroni on the other hand, had been preparing the minds of the people to be faithful.”

Hank Smith: 38:33 He talks about how rash the promise was. It’s just Mormon being kind of, we shall see that.

John Bythway: 38:38 Oh, as an editor, he puts Amalickiah and Moroni side-by-side as an editor, which is kind of fun to see.

Dr. Camille Olson: 38:45 Oh, that is fun.

John Bythway: 38:47 He knows what he’s doing.

Hank Smith: 38:48 Mormon says, kind of like Jezebel, “But behold, we shall see that his promise, which he made was rash.” This was probably not a good promise to make. Just like Jezebel.

Dr. Camille Olson: 39:01 We’ve got to wind up with something a little more positive. Don’t we? Then the demise of Jezebel.

Hank Smith: 39:06 And you had the widow of Zarephath, right? Same city.

Dr. Camille Olson: 39:09 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 39:10 And she is faithful.

Dr. Camille Olson: 39:11 Well, the same area. Zarephath is not Sidon, but it’s close. I mean, they’re like eight miles away.

Hank Smith: 39:17 We walked through the demise of Ahab and Jezebel, but let’s come back here to 1 Kings 19, before we wrap up. I really like this story where this angel comes to Elijah when he is in a really bad spot. And he brings him just a little cake, a little bit to drink, and he says, “The journey is too great for thee.” I just thought, “Man, I can, I could probably list a couple dozen angels that have come into my life just at the right time.” Brought me a little something. Right? I remember when my dad passed away, there was a knock on the door and there’s Alex Baugh who just came over, gave me a hug, and brought me a treat from Costco. He said, “I was just on my way home.” He is not on his way home, unless he’s going south of BYU to get to Lindon. That was a moment. “The journey is too great for thee,” and Alex Baugh was an angel. I could list how many others that have been angels in my life. It’s a hard journey.

John Bythway: 40:15 We can take that role. There’s lots of different definitions of angels, I think. And one of the statements of President Spencer W. Kimball that I think about so often is God does notice us. And he watches over us, but is usually through another person that he meets our needs. And that goes back to Elijah. It’s not in an earthquake. It’s not in thunder. It’s not in lightning. How does God meet our needs? Another person shows up like an Alex Baugh, like you mentioned, and a sister showed me her phone. Every morning a reminder came up that said, “Who needs me today?” And it didn’t say, “Does anyone need me?” It just said, “Who?” And then she would try to act on that each day and kind of be an angel that way.

Dr. Camille Olson: 40:58 Well, I am just struck by it too, just, it seems like the Lord’s awareness and reminder that he is aware that the journey is sometimes too great for us. He stretches us. We see miracles and his grace makes us equal to what is needed, but there are sometimes added pouring out of love and grace and mercy upon us that remind us that he is so aware and he recognizes our hurt and our discouragement. I think it’s in those times when it is more quiet and we just feel like, is he there? Sometimes it’s these little gentle feelings of his awareness that helped me come through. And I think of the challenges that Elijah went through. His life was being sought everywhere. It seemed like, and he is racing hundreds of miles on foot to do God’s bidding. And it makes me think of our leaders today.

Dr. Camille Olson: 42:03 I think my prayers for President Nelson and those who work closely with him, the Quorum of the Twelve and the First Presidency have increased in sincerity more than ever as I just see the mantle that they carry. I was really touched as I read Elder Holland’s talk from last conference. There was a part of it that I didn’t remember when he gave it. I printed it out to read often enough. This is just April, 2022, General Conference. Elder Holland said, “The leaders of this Church are giving their lives to seeking the Lord’s guidance in the resolution of these challenges.” As he talked about the hard things that we are suffering today. And I think I don’t have a clue just how much they give of themselves, their lives. And then he said, “If some of the challenges are not resolved to the satisfaction of everyone, perhaps they constitute part of the cross Jesus said we would have to take up in order to follow him.”

Dr. Camille Olson: 43:11 People like our apostles today and Elijah of old remind me that fallen earth is fraught with challenges, with trials, with stumbling, with hurt and pain and fears. That is where we discover that still, small voice very often that brings us back. Just discover that there are blessings that come on top of Mount Sinai when I have been fed by the angel of the Lord.

Hank Smith: 43:45 October 2018,  General Conference, Elder D. Todd Christofferson told the story of Elijah and Ahab. He went through the story, especially he focuses in on what happens on Carmel. He talks about this if God is God, then serve him. And he said today, Elijah might say either God, our Heavenly Father exists, or he does not. If he exists, worship him. Either Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the resurrected Redeemer of mankind, or he is not. But if he is, follow him. Either the Book of Mormon is the word of God, or it is not. But if it is then get near to God by studying and abiding by its precepts. Either Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son that spring day of 1820, or he did not. But if he did, then follow the prophetic mantle, including the keys of sealing that  Elijah bestowed upon him.

Hank Smith: 44:38 He goes on to give several examples of people who kind of what you might say, pick a side, they choose what side they’re on. I wanted to share one of the three and I hope everyone will go find this talk. It’s called,   He ties it back to the still, small voice. He says, this is back to the talk.”A man who grew up in the Church served as a full-time missionary and married a lovely woman was surprised when some of his siblings began speaking critically of the Church and the prophet Joseph Smith. After a time they left the Church and tried to persuade him to follow. As often happens in such cases, they bombarded him with essays, podcasts, and videos produced by critics. Most of whom were themselves disaffected former members of the Church. His siblings mocked his faith, telling him he was gullible and misled. He didn’t have answers for all their assertions and his faith began to waiver under the relentless opposition.”

Hank Smith: 45:30 “He wondered if he should stop attending Church. He talked with his wife. He talked with people he trusted. He prayed. And as he meditated in this troubled state of mind, he recalled occasions when he had felt the Holy Spirit and had received a witness of truth by the Spirit. He concluded.” I love what he says. “If I’m honest with myself, I must admit that the Spirit has touched me more than once and the testimony of the Spirit is real.” He now has a renewed sense of happiness and peace that is shared by his wife and children. Just kind of a modern day Elijah story.

Dr. Camille Olson: 46:07 I am so glad you shared that. I think that is so timely. The one I keep hearing today is, yeah, I’m a member of the Church. Yeah. I just don’t agree with President Nelson or whatever. You know, the idea that we can pick and choose Elijah. And the widow of Zarephath reminds me that even without having all the answers, we can know because of what he has done for us in the past, he will continue to help us in the future. Have that rock solid commitment to follow him. That sounds like the name of a podcast.

Hank Smith: 46:46 Yeah. Yeah. Even throw an Obadiah in there, Camille. You want me to do what?

John Bythway: 46:52 Just one of the things that I just loved about this year studying the Old Testament was the realization that, especially with Moses, when he felt so inadequate and I can’t do it and they won’t believe me and the Lord never said, “I’m going to solve all your problems.” He just said, “I will be with you.” And then we look at the way they set up the tabernacle with all the tents around and everything. And it was this symbol that I’m with you, all of these problems are still happening to these people, but there’s this assurance, I’m with you. So it’s not why doesn’t God just solve all of our problems and take them all away? Well, he doesn’t, but he’ll be with us in the midst of our problems. And that’s what I keep seeing over and over again in these stories. So yeah, you’ve got a long journey, but I’m going to come and I’m going to, I’ll actually cook some food for you on this little fire, but just so that you will know you’re not alone in this. I’m going to be with you.

Dr. Camille Olson: 47:47 And we will have discouraging times. And we will have times that we say, oh, I felt at once, can you sing the song of redeeming love now? I love scripture for what it teaches me from these individuals who carried on, even when they couldn’t see the next step ahead of them. And that is the widow of Zarephath and Obadiah and Elijah.

Hank Smith: 48:10 Camille, I like what we’ve done today. We’ve had a dynamic story with powerful characters. On one side, we’ve had Elijah, Obadiah, and that amazing widow of Zarephath saying, here’s what to do. On the other side, we have Ahab and Jezebel saying, here’s what not to do. As we come away from these chapters, then what are you hoping our listeners walk away knowing, changing, feeling?

Dr. Camille Olson: 48:32 I just think one of the most powerful messages that comes through here is Jehovah’s awareness of all of his children, whether they be of the house of Israel or outside the house of Israel. There is good that comes from the widow of Zarephath that will inspire a prophet. And there is good that comes from servants of a wicked king that inspire that same prophet. I sense in so many ways, God is no respecter of persons through this, but also how easy it is to have more power and fame and authority, and have it corrupt you, as we see in Jezebel and Ahab. Somehow through it all, Elijah remains humble, so humble and so willing to continue to serve. Whatever station we are in, whatever our circumstances, when we have an opportunity to help, when someone asks for help, we would be willing to step forward, whether it is feeding a hundred prophets in caves or giving the very last out of our cupboard. It’s in those extremities that we discover Him and that we are not to be afraid of what He desires to show us.

Dr. Camille Olson: 49:59 With a still small voice. I think that’s a compliment when we can hear and understand a still, small voice versus having lightning coming out of heaven. That is promising, but not to get discouraged. If there are times of quietness, when it seems like what is happening, I guess my mission is over. I guess I should die. There’s nothing left. It’s sometimes in those quiet times that we learn things that we could never know if we were feeling a more intense relationship with the Lord. Again, it was after that that Elijah discovered the still, small voice that before he might not have felt

Hank Smith: 50:40 What a fantastic day. Camille, we love having you on followHIM.

Dr. Camille Olson: 50:44 I love being here. You’re quite fun to hang out with.

John Bythway: 50:49 What a fun conversation we had today.

Hank Smith: 50:51 Just like everybody listening, we hope this isn’t the last time we have you. We want to thank Dr. Camille Fronk Olson for being with us today. We want to thank all of our listeners. Thank you for your support. We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorensen, and our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. And we hope all of you will join us next week. We’re coming back with another episode of followHIM.