John Bytheway: 00:01 Welcome to part two of this week’s podcast.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 00:07 Now, chapter six, this is built around the concept of one God only. The Book of Mormon is a Hebrew book. God is God. Whether you’re talking the Father, Son, the Holy Ghost, that’s God. They don’t get caught up on which God are we talking about? Irrelevant. It’s God. We see one of those most important verses in Deuteronomy, and that’s in Deuteronomy 6:4, the Shama, it’s called in Hebrew. “Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah,” which is only saying Jehovah’s one God.

John Bytheway: 00:50 Bruce, is this a standard of monotheism in a world of polytheism here in chapter six?

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 00:56 Yeah. This concept that there’s one God is big and that’s at the beginning and it’s just pounded in.

John Bytheway: 01:04 Yeah. It’s an over and over type thing. Even verse seven of chapter six, “Teach these things to your children.”

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 01:10 Teach them, talk of them. This is where the phylacteries come into play where they put the box on the forefront of their head, meaning over the brain and over the heart, that your heart and mind are focused on God.

John Bytheway: 01:29 The Lord wants these what? Daily reminders on their forehead that it’s verse 12 of chapter six, “Lest you forget what God has done.” You can see that throughout. I’ve been looking through it, all the remembers and all the forgets. We see that in the Book of Mormon too, and we remember President Kimball’s famous statement that he said, “When you look in the dictionary for the most important word, do you know what it is? He said it could be remember.” If you watch for remember and forget in the scriptures, it’s all over the place.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 02:02 You’ve got to remember it. Then, you need to keep remembering.

John Bytheway: 02:06 It sounds like to me, Bruce, in two in chapter six, Moses is saying, “When you get wealthy, remember God,” because all sorts of good things are going to happen to you. You’re going to build great cities. You’re going to have vineyards in olive trees. Don’t forget God.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 02:22 Now, I appreciate you bringing that up because when we see the promises being made to Israel, the great blessings, the blessings of great prosperity. The reason for the prosperity is that when the Gentiles coming to their land on the trade routes, see Israel in great prosperity. They’re going to ask about that because that’s what all the trade routes are about. That’s what war’s about, and they’re going to ask, “You guys are living great. How come?” Well, it’s because of our practice in Jehovah worship. Who’s Jehovah? Well, let us tell you. Prosperity is a major issue because we know from the Book of Mormon, when one gets prosperous, they tend to…

John Bytheway: 03:18 They forget. That’s Helaman 12, right?

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 03:21 I was going to just bring that up. That’s the longest of all his, “Thus, we sees,” is that issue. This comes up several times. In fact, it would be good at this point to do this. Go to Deuteronomy chapter 28 and Deuteronomy 27. I don’t know why they didn’t have him read 27, 28. 27, “Go to Shechem, divide yourself on the two mountains with six tribes standing on the north mountain to yell out blessings and the other six tribes on Ebal yelling out to curses.” In chapter 28 verses one through 14 are the blessings that would come upon Israel. It starts in verse one, “It shall come to pass if thou shall hearken diligently unto the voice of Jehovah, thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments, which I command thee this day, that Jehovah thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth and all these blessings shall come upon thee and overtake thee if thou shalt harken under the voice of Jehovah thy God. Blessed shalt thou be in the city, blessed shalt thou be in the field, blessed shalt thou be the fruit of that body,” et cetera, et cetera. The Book of Mormon carries that on, “Keep the commandments and you prosper in the…”

Hank Smith: 04:47 Prosper in the land.

John Bytheway: 04:49 But if you forget God, then it’s all come to none.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 04:52 Curses come and verses one through 14 are the blessings. Verses 15 through 68 are the curses.

John Bytheway: 05:01 The curses if you forget God. This is Deuteronomy 28?

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 05:04 You can see, “If you don’t harken, this will happen,” verse 16 and 17. Now, what the curses do, there’s the short chapter on the covenant and that’s in Leviticus chapter 26. In the short one, “Keep my law, I will dwell with you. I will put my tabernacle and be in your midst, [inaudible 00:05:24], but if you break it, these curses will come,” and there are pre-curses and there are curses. The pre-curses are designed to humble them to get them to reform. That’s what Leviticus says. If you’re not reformed by these pre-curses, then these curses happen. Pre-curses are like famine and plagues, et cetera, and they’re designed to humble Israel. If they’re not humbled, then you’re going to lose the land and be cast among all the heathen, but these blessings and cursings are at the heart of what’s going on in Deuteronomy. If you keep this law, then you’re going to be blessed. The blessings essentially are so that you can catch the eyes of the world so they can see you and inquire.

John Bytheway: 06:14 Then, they in turn learn about Jehovah, right? Because they’re inquiring, so they learn.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 06:19 That’s the whole point of the house of Israel is to fulfill this promise made to Enoch, to Abraham that all the world will come to God, be saved.

John Bytheway: 06:29 Let me ask you something, Bruce. It seems to me as I read one of the assigned chapters from the manual this week is chapter 30, seems the Lord is prepping them for a scattering, that He knows it’s coming.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 06:41 That is the curse. That’s the ultimate curse that will happen. Let me do this. Go to chapter 30. In chapter 30, you see the chapter summary, the scattered Israelites will be gathered from among all nations. Well, okay. We’ve been seeing that the curses are many varied and Israel cease to exist as a people, but they got to return as a people. Go back to 29 real quick, and let me show you the verses where they’re now entering into this covenant. 29:10, “You stand this day, all of you before the Lord your God,” that before the Lord is… kind of a Hebrew idiomatic phrase, meaning there’s an altar or there’s a temple there. They would have this altar there representing God, verse 10, “Your captains of your tribes, the elders, officers, with all the men of Israel, your little ones, your wives and the stranger that is in thy camp.”

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 07:49 Now, remember there were many strangers who came with them out of Egypt, so they’re already blessing Gentiles. Anytime you see the word stranger, it means Gentile generally because a stranger could also be someone in another tribe. But in this case, it would be Gentiles. Verse 12, “That thou shouldst enter into a covenant with the Lord thy God and into his oath with Jehovah thy God, maketh with you this day that ye may be established.” Establishing you as a nation, “And he has sworn unto you, the fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath, but with him that standeth here with us that is this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day.” I.e. your children, your grandchildren, your descendants. This is the national covenant. You are subject to it, just like anyone born in the United States are subject to the constitution of the United States. This is a national law. If we keep that mind, remember, Israel is to be in a worldwide nation, Zion. Then, chapter 30 comes and he is prepping.

Hank Smith: 09:19 For a scattering, right? Which we’re going to see later on as we go through the rest of the Old Testament.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 09:25 It’s as clear as can be. Israel’s problem is going to be following more than one way.

Hank Smith: 09:31 Fidelity. Yeah.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 09:32 The ways of the world and the ways of God can’t do it.

John Bytheway: 09:36 Reminds me of that general conference comment. When you chase two rabbits, you don’t get either one of them.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 09:44 But don’t worry. In the end, God’s going to win.

John Bytheway: 09:49 Even if you have to be scattered, He knows what He’s doing.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 09:53 Throughout here, the word shuv is used, which is the word for repent, which means to return. We see the if, thens, the ifs, the buts, et cetera. Verse 15, “I have set before thee, this day, life and good, death and evil in that I command thee this day to love Jehovah thy God, to walk in his ways and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments and that thou mayest live and multiply and Jehovah thy God shall bless thee in the land, whither thou go to possess it, but if thine heart turn away so that thou will not hear, but shall be drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, I denounce unto you this day that you shall surely perish and that you shall not prolong your days upon the land, whether thou passes over to Jordan to possess it.”

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 11:03 “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore, choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live, that thou mayest love the Lord thy God, that thou mayest obey his voice, that thou mayest cleave unto him for He is life and the length of the days, and thou mayest dwell in the land, which Jehovah swear unto thy fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to give them,” which means your freedom to worship.

Hank Smith: 11:43 Moses is serious.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 11:46 Then, next is to Joshua. He’s done speaking to the people.

John Bytheway: 11:50 That’s quite a farewell speech.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 11:52 It is.

John Bytheway: 11:53 There’s a little bit of Lehi in there. I just noticed that the footnotes there, footnote 15:8 in 2 Nephi 2:27 where Lehi kind of… It sounds like such a no brainer. Do you want to choose captivity and death or do you want to choose liberty and eternal life like Lehi says? It’s the same thing. Life in verse 19, “I set before you, life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose life.” This should be obvious, “That both thou and thy seed may live.”

Hank Smith: 12:23 Perfect connection to 2 Nephi 2.

John Bytheway: 12:25 I was going, “Hey, that sounds like Lehi.” Then, I noticed the footnote people caught it too, long before I did. This is such a no brainer. This is not a hard choice.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 12:34 When you think over 2 Nephi 2, and he starts at the beginning and he’s talking about the law, that all have a law, light of Christ, all are going to sin. Where’s he getting this whole concept? Well, it’s here in this law. Now, I want you to recall Lehi, Sariah, a young married couple is when Josiah finds the book and Josiah calls all Israel to the temple, at least those who would come because most of them had been scattered, but come to the temple and they cut a covenant with God. He reads the whole text to them and they hear this and they cut a covenant. Everybody walked between the parts of the animal, every one of them. Lehi and Sariah, young married couple…

Hank Smith: 13:30 They would’ve been there.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 13:31 Yes. And they would’ve heard the law. The first time he reads it is when they get the scriptures. First time he gets to read the scriptures, it’s always been hearing.

Hank Smith: 13:42 For those of our listeners who don’t know who Josiah is, don’t worry. Stay with us. We’re going to get to him. Yeah. He’s coming.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 13:48 He’s one of the last kings of Judah.

Hank Smith: 13:50 Yeah. It’s an important connection to make to Lehi because without Josiah, I don’t know if Lehi knows what he knows.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 13:57 Josiah is perhaps the best king in Israel. Very unlike his grandfather Manasseh who was the worst king in Israel. Josiah brings about a reform.

Hank Smith: 14:13 Using this book, right?

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 14:15 Jeremiah is the major prophet. You read in Jeremiah that the reform is in the king, but the reform is not in the hearts of the people. That’s what the Lord tells in the great temple sermon in Jeremiah 7, and Lehi would’ve been there. Ishmael and his wife would’ve been there in this great covenant. It’s 2 Kings chapter 19, I think.

Hank Smith: 14:42 How interesting, Bruce, that chapter 30, they would’ve heard about the scattering and they’re going to take part in it.

John Bytheway: 14:50 They are. Those who shall be scattered Lehi was to preserve seed of Joseph, remnant of Joseph.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 14:58 The idea of scattering, of course, is in reality, a positive word because it has the connotation of scattering the seed and by scattering Israel, we’re going to spread that blood that God has promised to Abraham is going to have the gospel and is going to be saved and exalted.

John Bytheway: 15:22 Which brings us full circle because when we very first began, we said the Lord’s got a long game here. He knows his game plan to turn this all around. We learn in the Book of Mormon, the scattering was part of the plan to save Israel and the rest of the world.

Hank Smith: 15:38 In my class, I like to say, could we call this a fortunate scattering kind of like a fortunate fall? The scattering came when they were having trouble being obedient or remembering, except for the case of Lehi, but look at what the Lord did with it. It became a fortunate scattering, a way to help bless all the families of the earth. Like Bruce just said, to spread the blood of the house of Israel all over the world.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 15:59 God is not in the business of destruction. He’s in the business of salvation. He always uses His means of destruction to be a means of salvation.

John Bytheway: 16:12 Returning beauty for ashes. That’s what he does.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 16:15 This goes all the way back to the Enochian covenant, I will call on Noah’s seed. His seed will be found among all nations until the end. That means chosen seed with it. In the end, Noah’s seed will essentially be the chosen seed that I’m going to bless. That’s finalized in the millennium. There it is from the very beginning, how is he going to save this earth?

Hank Smith: 16:41 I feel bad for Joshua he’s got to take this. Bruce, let me ask you. For those of us who are seeing this message of keep the covenant, even in wealth, keep the covenant, remember God, and you’ll create Zion. How do you do that? Because it seems in the Book of Mormon, it’s almost impossible to get wealthy, to catch the eyes of the world, but yet to stay dedicated to God.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 17:06 It’s the way the 10 commandments are set up to begin with. First, that is to put God first. That is a spiritual rebirth issue. That is about when one goes through spiritually birth and God literally becomes first in their life. Remember what Adam and Eve were shown? They’ve fallen. They eventually call on the Lord. He tells them to worship him and offer the firstlings of their flock as an offering. They do and they do it and they do it and they do it. It had to have been an awful experience at first, because this is really a burnt offering and a burnt offering is skin it, dismembering it. It’s a bloody process the first time doing it. Then, it all burns up and they must have stood around that first time and said, “Whoa, what did we just do here?”

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 18:01 Then, the angel comes, “Why are you doing this?” Well, I don’t know. The angel, this thing is in similitude of the sacrifice of the only begotten son who is full of grace and truth. Next verse, “Wherefore, thou shall do all thou doest in the name of the son.” In other words, that sacrifice is also your sacrifice. The burnt offering, the head is removed, the innards are removed and these are placed in order on the offering, the head, the innards, the fat, the legs, the carcass, and then it’s entirely burned up in smoke in ash. In Hebrew, this is called the Ola. Ola means that, which goes up, no one ever come up with a name, burnt offering. It represents the wholeness of the offer. As Christ put God first and the salvation of his children, so must we. That has to be done on a daily basis that keep reminding ourselves, what are we doing? Why do I have a job? Why am I going on this vacation? None of which is evil, but in the end, it has to be somehow building the kingdom of God.

Hank Smith: 19:19 Do all that thou doest.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 19:21 It is an inner mental heart thing that has to be cognitively done. I’ll be honest. Coming here to do this, I walk through my motives with Heavenly Father, “Why am I doing this? It’s for thy kingdom’s sake. It has nothing to do with me and whatever comes of all this, because I’m not much into all this kind of stuff.” I even don’t know what it is, “But why am I doing it?,” I asked. The answer is to build a kingdom and I had to mentally work that through. It’s there. I have to tell you something. When I was 23, we went up to Mount Gerizim and at Passover time, and we had the opportunity to spend Passover with the Samaritans, the slaughtering of the lambs, the burning of them. They don’t burn them up entirely, but that was an education for me, black and white words on a page turned colors. I saw lamb actually and the kicking, the bleeting, the dismembering of that animal.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 20:26 Man, I just sat through my head and I just thought, “Oh, my goodness, this is what Adam went through. This is what Lehi did with his family in the wilderness.” When Nephi is asked when he’s trying to find out the meaning of the tree, he sees a woman, a young girl, and he’s trying to figure out what this got to do with the tree of life. You know who this is? No, it’s a mother, son of God, the flesh. He’s asked the question, “Do you understand the condescension of God?” “No, I don’t understand what you’re saying.” He sees the girl, then she’s gone and she comes back and she’s still dressed the same.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 21:02 This is how he would know she’s a virgin or unmarried is what virgin really means is she’s unmarried. She’s still unmarried. She’s got a baby in her hands and now he’s got to really be wondering, “What does this have to do with the tree?” Then, the angel says, “Behold, the Lamb of God, the Son of the eternal Father. Knowest thou the meaning of the tree.” Oh, he just traded one symbol for another. Oh, this is lamb. The lamb is a sacrifice. This is that sacrifice we do… Christ is doing. In fact, the mother is the sacrifice. We see a mother, the firstling, the meaning of the tree, the life of a child.

Hank Smith: 21:50 The sacrifice that he’s seen his whole life.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 21:53 Yeah. You and I are in the similitude of that sacrifice as what Adam and Eve is being taught that same thing. Ultimately, bringing the children of God into the world and teaching them and raise them righteously and all the various ways we can serve in the kingdom of God to bless God’s sheep in this world.

Hank Smith: 22:14 Bruce, we’ve had an incredible day today walking through Deuteronomy in the history of Israel really. I think our listeners would be interested in your journey as a Bible scholar and a believing Latter-Day Saint, how those two worlds have come together to you? Also, the world of being a father and a grandfather.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 22:33 I am very, very much committed to the gospel of Jesus Christ. I have a very strong testimony of God, the Father, a very strong one in his Son. My father was a very strong member of the church. My mother struggled and she hated the Book of Mormon. We really didn’t talk religion growing up. It always was a conflict, though she would go to church. It was just really a strange thing. Well, I just kind of grew up the sixth of the six kids and I didn’t particularly care one way or the other about the gospel. I would say I believed, but I didn’t have faith. I was born in 1956. I grew up in this turbulent decade of the ’60s and in the ’70s. It was a fearful time, the assassinations and the race riots, the drug culture, that was all very frightening kind of thing.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 23:27 The Hippie Movement was part of that, and I watched that. I didn’t like the drugs, wasn’t going to get them what they were looking for. That proved correct by the early ’70s. Many of them became born again Christians and in December of ’72, it was snowing on a Friday night in December and I wasn’t with all my friends. I don’t know why. To this day, I don’t know why, but I went downtown, was walking around, just looking at the lights and was alone and out of the blizzard came a lot of hippies. I looked like one too. They come up and they surrounded me and said, “Hey man, do you know Christ?” I had no idea what they were talking about. They said, “Let’s go in and have a cup of coffee and talk about it.” I find this interesting.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 24:15 We’re talking and they’re trying to convince me about Christianity and becoming born again, and they’re reading to me from a Bible that they have that’s pre-marked. There was probably about 35, 40. They were asking me questions and so forth. One of them said, “So do you belong to a church?” Of course, I’d been baptized when I was eight. I said, “Yeah. My parents baptized me when I was eight in a Mormon church.” That was my first time of getting inundated with anti-Mormon sentiment. They just were shooting stuff right and left at me. I was bothered by it. I wasn’t bothered in a disbelieving way. I was bothered because for the first time in my life, I wasn’t sure of what I believed about anything spiritual. I just wasn’t spiritual, and I had never read the scriptures. I didn’t own any scriptures.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 25:14 We never read them at home. We had a family Bible in the living room, but it was just a big thick one for show. I got in my car and I was driving and thinking, “What do I know?” The missionaries at that time, all of them had little cards with their name on it. On the front side was a picture of the temple. Then, on the backside, it had 13 articles of faith. I knew where there was one at home. I wanted to go home and get a Bible and start reading the Bible, comparing the Bible to the articles of faith. I don’t know why I even thought I could read a Bible. I asked my dad. I went and I said, “Do you think I could get a set of missionary scriptures for Christmas?” Of course, he was more than happy to do that.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 25:59 That year, I started to read the Bible, comparing it to the articles of faith. The more I read and the more I compared, I somehow just started to begin to pray. By that summer, I had some very powerful spiritual experiences that left me with no doubt regarding the gospel. I was a changed man. You would probably know Terry Ball.

Hank Smith: 26:30 Oh, yeah.

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 26:31 Terry and I grew up together and we were in the same ward. Terry was such a good guy. When I made my change, he started calling me Alma the Younger. Now, I’d never read the Book of Mormon. And I didn’t know who Alma the Younger was. I didn’t know what he was saying. My senior year, David Yarn was the dean of the College of Religion. My father was his scout master when he was young and they were friends and David was taking a group over to Israel, 1973 Christmas time. It was right after the Yom Kippur War, and my dad asked me if I wanted to go. I was sure… When the war broke out, my mom and sister who were going to go backed out. My dad said, “What do you want to do?” I said, “I still want to go. I don’t have a problem. I don’t care.”

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 27:19 That opened me up to the world of the Bible as a consequence. It raised some questions in my mind about the Atonement. This is where I’ll just bring it to an end. I didn’t understand why there had to be… I didn’t disbelieve it. I just didn’t understand. If I broke a family rule, I got in trouble. I got grounded one summer. If I had had an older brother come and say, “I’ll take his grounding for him,” my parents would’ve said, “No, you won’t.” If I murdered somebody and convicted of it, and someone says, “I’ll take his death penalty.” [inaudible 00:27:50] would say, “No, you don’t.” So you understand, this is where my question was coming. Why is this happening?

Dr. Bruce Satterfield: 27:54 I wanted to study about Jesus Christ and schooling seemed to be a good logical reason to go there. The year after I graduated, I went over there and had a little room in a Palestinian hotel and I did my regular schoolwork. Then, the nights, I spent hours working on a study on the life of Christ. That year was phenomenal, but I just have to say that testimony was strong and none of that stuff regarding what people come up with, the things that they say I’d have a strong, strong testimony, and that can’t be faked for me. The scholarly side has always been to understand the doctrine and the doctrine is to understand how to live. I’ve never let scholarship be the reason, but it’s a means to an end.

Hank Smith: 28:50 Bruce, we have had such a good day.

John Bytheway: 28:53 Yeah. I’ll never think of grace and truth the same way again. That was really wonderful. Never look at those verses the same way again. When I hear grace and truth, I’ll think of that. What did you call it? Unstinting devotion.

Hank Smith: 29:06 Dr. Bruce Satterfield, this has been just an incredible, incredible feast today. Thank you for helping us see Deuteronomy and the entire history of Israel. It’s been just a wonderful day, John. I’m sure you’d say the same thing. A great day. We want to thank all of you for listening and staying with us. We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, and we hope all of you will join us next week on another episode of followHIM.