John Bytheway: 00:02 Welcome to part two of this week’s podcast.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 00:07 Being led towards the east, towards God. Can’t go up the Nile, because if he goes up the Nile, which is fertile and you can survive, it’s the Egyptians run everything. Can’t go out on the sea north and to Canaan. He can’t even go on the Mediterranean sea, because the Egyptians have that all covered. The only place he can go is the desert, because nobody’s out there, and that’s Midian. Midian is being prepared. There’s two stories going on. There’s the one, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and Jacob’s family. And then, from into Canaan into Egypt. There’s another story line from Abraham going a separate way, preparing the way for the coming of this Moses.

Hank Smith: 00:56 Deliverer.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 00:58 The descendants of Midian are the descendants of Abraham from his third wife, Keturah, and here Moses ends up there. He ends up next to a well. Jesus uses the well for some of his best teachings, right?

John Bytheway: 01:14 The woman at the well.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 01:15 The Samaritan woman, who’s a foreigner, at Jacob’s well, what does he teach her?

Hank Smith: 01:23 John chapter four.

John Bytheway: 01:24 Living water.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 01:25 John chapter four.

Hank Smith: 01:26 Living water.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 01:27 The living water. Now, Moses just came from where? He just came across the desert because Midian is on the east side of the Red Sea. It’s on the east side of Sinai.

Hank Smith: 01:41 He’s got a long ways.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 01:42 He’s has been wandering by himself a long way and he ends up next to a well.

Hank Smith: 01:51 Yeah, which he probably desperately needs at this point.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 01:53 Yeah. He desperately needs this living water, right? Not only is it going to keep him alive physically, but just wait, who this well belongs to. It belongs to the priest of the God of the mountain, the priest of Midian. Let’s let’s look at that. In verse 16, we’re introduced to another family. Now, this is not an Israelite family. This is a Midianite family.

John Bytheway: 02:23 But it’s a Abraham family.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 02:25 They’re both related to Abraham, right?

John Bytheway: 02:27 Yeah.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 02:27 Moses is related to Abraham and Midian is related to Abraham. Let’s read this one, verse 16, John, please.

John Bytheway: 02:35 “Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters and they came and drew water and filled the troughs to water their father’s flock.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 02:42 Did you notice some words that are repeating?

Hank Smith: 02:44 The daughters.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 02:45 The daughters. We also learn that the priest of Midian, so now we finally are back online with priesthood. It’s real priesthood.

John Bytheway: 02:58 He’s a descendant of Abraham.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 03:00 With real Melchizedek Priesthood authority. Now, we learned that from Doctrine and Covenants, section 84. The Lord reveals the line of Moses, the Melchizedek line of Moses, from this priest and from his predecessors. On my website, I have a piece that I wrote, an ebook, it’s actually coming from a presentation that I gave at one of the Sperry Symposiums that was published in this book here called Voices of Old Testament Prophets. I presented my research on Jethro and his priesthood lineage.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 03:37 Chapter one is called “Remnants Gathered, Covenants Fulfilled.” Isn’t a great title? By Elder Russell M. Nelson. Chapter two is Jethro, the Prophet and Priest of Midian. Here, we see the Melchizedek authoritative priest finally, and Moses is now on his doorstep.

Hank Smith: 04:07 This is like a wonderful chess game. The Lord is bringing these pieces together.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 04:10 We learned something. He’s a priest with priesthood. He has seven daughters and they came to draw water and filled the troughs to water their father’s flock. We hear all kinds of things, priest, father with a flock. This priesthood holder knows something and has things that Moses is going to need.

Hank Smith: 04:37 He’s going to be a great mentor.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 04:39 He’s one of those lucky fathers, like myself, who only have daughters. When you only have daughters, you learn that a few things. You learn that they’re very capable. I remember I used to coach my daughters’ soccer teams. And I remember in priesthood meetings sometimes at church, the brethren would say, “You know what, Brother Rivera? So sorry that you don’t have any sons.” And I said, “Hey, Brother, I’ll tell you what, meet me over on the field and I’ll pit my daughters against your sons in a soccer game anytime.” They never took me up on it.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 05:20 But, here, it looks like Jethro is blessed with seven wonderful, strong, capable daughters. In verse 17, really quick, it says here that here come the bad guys. These renegade shepherds who were trying to steal the flock.

Hank Smith: 05:38 “And the shepherds came and drove them away. But Moses stood and help them and watered their flock.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 05:45 It does say, “And Moses rose up,” but then it uses another verb and it pauses in the Hebrew text. It says, “vayoshian.” Now, this word means to save or to deliver. He’s already has these instincts of saving. Now, what also is interesting here in this verb is it’s the same word or root words, Yeshua, which the angel tells Joseph and Mary. “You will name your son Yeshua.” In English, we say Jesus. In Hebrew, the angel tells both of them, “You are going to name this son who will be the son of God, Yeshua.” It’s the word. Yeshua is a noun. It means savior or salvation. Isaiah uses it all the time. As a matter of fact, his name, Isaiah is this word. Yesha ‘yahu. Yesha ‘yahu in Hebrew is Isaiah.

John Bytheway: 06:57 In English, I think it says in the Bible dictionary, ” The Lord is salvation.” Same thing?

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 07:02 That’s right. Yes.

John Bytheway: 07:03 And I’ve always loved that because in The Book of Mormon, when Abinadi says, “What are you teaching these people?” And they said, “The law of Moses.” And he said, “Why don’t you keep it?” And then, he quotes the law of Moses and his kind of, he says, “If you teach the law of Moses, keep it. But salvation comes in Christ, or the Lord is salvation.” And then, he quotes Isaiah 53. And Isaiah’s name means the Lord is salvation. I’ve always thought, “Oh, that’s kind of elegant, the way that’s put there.” Because Isaiah’s name indicates his mission to teach that the Lord is salvation.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 07:37 This is a foreshadow here. Moses saving the daughters of Jethro, delivering them, saving, is preparing him. He’s on the right track. He’s ready. He’s ready now to be a deliverer. But he has to learn what that really means. He doesn’t know yet.

Hank Smith: 07:59 Jethro says to his daughters, “How come you’re back so quick?” I like that.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 08:05 They say, “An Egyptian rescued us.”

Hank Smith: 08:11 And I like that Jethro says, “Well, did you invite him over for dinner?”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 08:15 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 08:15 “Where is he? You left him there?”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 08:18 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 08:19 This is another other question I had was, did the Midianites have their own language?

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 08:23 Yes, they would have their own unique language. Okay, I think this is where Reuel is coming in. This seems to be a Midianite clan name for Jethro that they know. There was an ancestor named Reuel in amongst the Midianite lineage. Yes, they would have their own language, a Semitic language. What we call a Northwest Jordanian or Transjordan language. They’re in the Southwestern part of what we know today is Jordan was Midian. And the Northwest part of Arabia, these wonderfully desert places, but it appears that their belief, at least amongst Jethro and his family, has been passed down from Abraham. It appears they know this God. He is the God of Abraham. And we learned that later on when God introduces himself to Moses.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 09:26 And it looks like Jethro is one of those very hospitable and traditional shaped like person. Very much like Abraham. He asks his daughters, “Well, did you leave him out there?” You know? Come on girls-

Hank Smith: 09:41 Bring him back.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 09:41 “Bring him over here that we may break bread with him.”

Hank Smith: 09:45 Eat bread, yeah.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 09:46 Eat bread. It says that Moses, he decides to stay. Moses decides to marry Jethro’s daughter, Zipporah. There’s another name we need to know, Zipporah. Moses’ family begins in Midian. He has a new family now. He has a Midianite father-in-law now, Jethro who is still the priest, the presiding Melchizedek authority. He has his wife, Zipporah, and they have two sons. Gershom, is Moses’ first born. And then, he has, Eliezer. Ger is a sojourner or foreigner. It’s reflecting on Moses. He’s like, “I’m way out here, the middle of nowhere. I’m a stranger here. I’m trying to get to know who I should be.” And so, he names his son, a stranger there, Gershom or Gersham.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 10:39 He has another son, Eliezer, my God is a helper. Because in the next verses, God is going to keep repeating to Moses. Every time he calls Moses to this great deliverer mission, he gets called to the Memphis Egyptian mission. And Moses keeps saying, “You don’t want me. I can’t go back. I don’t know if I can do this. I don’t, I’m not qualified.” And then, he finally says, “Just send somebody else.” Every time he says that, he keeps telling Moses, “I will help you. I will be with you,” so he names his second son, Eliezer, my God is a helper. He will help us.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 11:25 I love that when God tells Moses, “I will be with you. I know it’s frightening. I know it’s going to be hard. I know I’m asking you to do the impossible. I know you think you can’t do it, but I will be with you.” We should all write it down today. Put it on your post-it or wherever and put it right in front of you so you see that every day.

John Bytheway: 11:51 God didn’t say, “No, you’re great. You’re awesome. You’re going to do wonderful.” He just said, “I’ll be with you.” But I love that’s the promise at the sacrament table, you can always have his spirit to be with you.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 12:03 I know you aren’t a good speaker. I know that. I know that it’s hard. I know these things. Trust me. I know. I’ve been preparing you for this, but we’re going to do it together. At the end of chapter two, this is where the word for God starts appearing over and over and over again. Now, the word for God that keeps appearing is this word, Elohim. The name isn’t spoken yet. They keep using the term Elohim, Elohim, Elohim. In verse 24, let’s have a read there.

John Bytheway: 12:38 “And God heard their groaning. And God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 12:44 There it is. He heard and he remembered. That connects us back to Genesis.

Hank Smith: 12:51 And this is beautiful that he already has a plan in place. I mean, think about that within our own lives. You say a prayer and God has had a plan in place for a long time, already been preparing Moses. For the moment that prayer is said, “I have an answer for you, actually. I’ve been preparing it for quite a while.:

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 13:12 That’s right. God knows this plan. And he does these preparations, but sometimes it takes time to get us into the position where we are ready to engage them, to discover why and what we need to do. This is where Moses is right now. And he’s prepared Joseph. It says again in verse 25, “And God saw, or he looked upon the sons of Israel,” it says. Elohim knew them. In Hebrew, it says, “Elohim saw the sons of Israel and Elohim knew them,” it says. Is that what your translation says?

Hank Smith: 13:55 No, it says, and God had respect unto them.

John Bytheway: 13:59 Which is interesting because God says, “He’s no respecter of persons.” And here it says, “He has respect unto them.” And so, I think that’s why they wanted to make this footnote, footnote 25A, “God knew.” In other words, he was cognizant of them.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 14:14 As we move now into chapter three of Exodus. Okay? We’re going to get a glimpse on his life here in chapter one, because he spends decades in Midian. He’s being trained. He’s being mentored and it’s time for his mission call and his introduction to God. Let’s have a look at verse one. The verse one is very telling, chapter three.

John Bytheway: 14:42 “Now, Moses kept the flock of Jethro, his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the backside of the desert and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 14:53 They know. Jethro knows where Moses has come from. But look how he puts him to work. 

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 15:00 He doesn’t put him to work as a diplomat of the sheik’s fortune, he doesn’t put him as a trader, or he doesn’t start making treaties with Egypt now. Notice how he teaches Moses. He teaches him, “Moses, you need to learn how to be a shepherd now. You know what it’s like to be a king, you know what it’s like to be a warrior, a bit about slavery. Now you need to learn other skills, like leading a flock.

Hank Smith: 15:36 Leading a flock through the desert. He’s going to do that later in life.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 15:39 Leading a flock through the desert, you need to learn what this is like, and gain those skills. Not only physically, temporally, but also spiritually, to care for each one of these. And then you will be ready, once you’ve served in this capacity, to be introduced to the God of the mountain. So here’s Moses. He’s leading the flock, and he’s walking around the mountain, which he has probably done many times. And remember, mountains are always the natural temples of God.

John Bytheway: 16:16 Right. The mountain of God, it says.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 16:18 That’s right. So now he is on Horeb, which is another name for Sinai. In English we say Mount Sinai, right? Moses is ready to be introduced to the presence of God, let’s see what happens. So this is where we’re going to see this burning bush, the famous burning bush.

Hank Smith: 16:39 “And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire, out of the midst of a bush. And he looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire and the bush was not consumed.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 16:50 It says in Hebrew that malach Jehovah. Now this… you see where it says the Lord? This is the first time in Exodus that the name of the son… when Hebrew, the vowels say, Jehovah, Jehovah. Sometimes the vowels say, Jeva, Jeva, other times it says, Jehovah. Here, in this first time, it says Jehovah. But it’s says the malach, the malach Jehovah. That’s what they’re translating as the angel of Jehovah. This word, malach, which translates as angel, means… it literally means a messenger. But I think, for modern revelation, we learn that the presence of Jehovah was there.

John Bytheway: 17:49 Yeah, the JST footnote says presence of the Lord. So yeah.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 17:53 Yeah, that’s right. And the presence of the Lord is what is creating this light, almost like fire. What’s that wonderful song we sing? The spirit of God, like a fire, is burning. From Adam to Joseph Smith, it always uses these same terms, of this flaming fire. So bright, brighter than the sun, Joseph Smith said.

John Bytheway: 18:22 I think he said he thought the forest would be consumed in the first vision, one of the accounts.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 18:28 Yeah. So it’s not fire, it’s like a fire is burning, right?

John Bytheway: 18:33 Yeah, yeah.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 18:34 And that’s why the bush isn’t being consumed, because it’s not fire. It’s something more powerful. It’s the ha’or from the creation. In verse three of chapter one of Genesis he says… It says, vayo’mer Elohim yehi ‘or . He says, “And Elohim said, ” Let there be light,” or you can translate it, it will be light, and there was light. But that light is not the sun, it’s something else.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 19:12 The sun is created in verse 16, of Genesis chapter one. This is that same thing that Moses is experiencing here. That light, it’s very powerful.

John Bytheway: 19:22 That’s interesting.

Hank Smith: 19:24 And he’s fascinated by it. It says in verse three, “I will now turn aside and see this great site.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 19:29 See how he’s being drawn to it? Now we have Jehovah on the scene, is ready to deal with him, and look what he says.

John Bytheway: 19:39 “And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see God, called unto him out of the midst of the bush and said, ‘Moses, Moses.’ And he said, here am I.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 19:50 So he calls him by name, which is such a great way to start. The first thing that Moses hears out of the mouth of Jehovah is his name.

Hank Smith: 20:06 Joseph Smith learned the same thing, right, in that first millisecond.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 20:11 Same thing, a personal God. And we’re going to learn this, because he’s going to explain that he is personal in the next couple verses. And Moses makes that famous reply, that all the humble worshipers of the Lord do. In Hebrew, they say hineni. Now it’s often translated as here am I, or here I am. Hineh means to behold, to behold. So hineni should be translated, “Behold me,” because the E part means me. Hineni, behold me.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 20:52 It’s very telling that Moses is prepared, and he says, “Behold me.” And then God instructs him, ” Moses, in order for you to be in my presence, you need to understand a few things. We need to get you ready.” That’s verse five.

John Bytheway: 21:09 And he said, “Draw not nay hither, put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place where on thou standest is holy ground.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 21:18 He says, “You are now in my world, and you don’t get to bring your dirty things in my world. So don’t come any closer until you remove your shoes,” as a symbolic act, of course.

Hank Smith: 21:31 That’s fascinating, Anthony, this idea of, “I want you to come to my presence, that can’t come with you though.” That whatever sin it is, whatever uncleanness we have in our life, “I want you to come with, but you’ve got to get rid of that.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 21:45 So that’s the prerequisite. Once he does that and he stands before this God, that he only knows is the God of the mountain, the God of Jethro, and I’m sure over time Jethro was instructing him, preparing him. It’s not like… although some folks are thrown into the temple and they’re thinking, “Whoa, what just happened?”, it’s helpful if folks are prepared to go into the temple, like Moses was. They need a mentor, they need to understand the scriptures, they need to do some shepherding to be ready, to know the wonders and knowledge that will be given. So here in verse six comes the famous introduction. This isn’t the official introduction that God wants Moses to tell Israel, this introduction in verse six is just for Moses. Let’s read to see what it says. This is going to connect the dots now, back to where we left off with in Canaan.

John Bytheway: 22:57 Moreover, he said, I am the God of thy Father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 23:08 In Hebrew, he uses a pronoun. Now in English, we get this all mixed up, the I AMs. Here in this verse six, God is using a personal pronoun, not the verb. So this isn’t the same as what he’s going to say later, to tell Israel, this is as if they’ve known each other for a long time. This is personal, this is friendship. He says, ” anoki elohe abika.” He says, “I, me, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob.” So he’s trying to help Moses put into context who he really is and who he has been all along.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 24:03 This brings Moses now from an Egyptian to a Hebrew. He’s all in now, he is all in now. He’s now directly connected to Israel. God continues in his discussion. Now Moses, in the meantime, is freaking out. He’s like, “Whoa.” He’s obviously feeling the transfiguration, right? This is really being in the presence of God, has nothing to do with what he experienced in Egypt. Jehovah now starts to instruct him, and in verse seven, let’s see what it says.

John Bytheway: 24:42 And the Lord said, “I have surely seen the affliction of my people, which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their task masters, for I know their sorrows.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 24:52 Did you notice that the Lord, the word Lord, is in all capitals? You’re going to have to translate in your head that everywhere it says Lord, it really says Jehovah. So if we read this properly, we would say, “And Jehovah said, I have seen the suffering of my people.” So it makes it a little bit more personable. In verse eight it’s interesting what he says to him, and here we get a glimpse into the Jehovah as the true deliverer and the savior. Moses, isn’t going to be the deliverer, it’s really Jehovah who is going to be the deliverer. Look what he says in verse eight.

John Bytheway: 25:36 “And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land, unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey. Unto the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 25:56 These are the people who are there now, in the land that was covenanted with Abraham. Moses next says, “Why me? Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and make this happen?”

Hank Smith: 26:11 Ironic, because it’s the one person who’s like, “Pharaoh doesn’t want to see me.” Well, actually Pharaoh’s looking for me. He wants to slaughter me,” as you told us in the last chapter.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 26:23 That’s right, that’s right. But the answer to Moses’s question, because he is asking questions and they’re real questions, why am I called to this? Verse 12 is the answer.

Hank Smith: 26:35 And he said, “Certainly I will be with thee, and this shall be a token unto thee that I have sent thee. When thou has brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.” Those are basically, “Come back here.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 26:51 So number one, he says, “You’re not going to do this alone. As a matter of fact, I’m going to be doing this.”

Hank Smith: 26:58 Yeah. “I will send you,” in verse 10, “I will be with you,” in verse 12.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 27:03 That’s right. I will be with you. He doesn’t say, “And if you free Israel,” he says, “And when you free them, you will worship Elohim,” it says, “On this mountain.”

Hank Smith: 27:17 So now Moses gets to test the promise, right?

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 27:20 That’s right. And in verse 13 is when Moses says, “Okay, all right, let me see if I understand this.” He says, “What am I going to tell them?”

Hank Smith: 27:33 This is great. He’s not so worried about Pharaoh as he is the Israelites.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 27:36 Yeah, yeah. “Last time I was there, they saw me riding in Pharaoh’s chariot. But what am I going to tell them of what your name is?” The book is called the names.

Hank Smith: 27:51 Shemot.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 27:53 Shemot, that’s right. And he says, “What should I tell them, what God is sending me? Are they going to even remember this?” This is that famous line that reads in Hebrew… let me tell you what it says. It says, “Vayomer Elohim el-Moshe. And Elohim said to Moses, “ehyeh asher ehyeh.” Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel ehyeh has sent me to you.” Ehyeh asher ehyeh is often translated, “I am that I am.” That doesn’t make much sense, and we can work it out and try to explain it. In Hebrew, it’s a very clear, specific kind of verb that is being used. It’s the verb to be, with a future prefix which says, “I will.” So ehyeh literally means, in Hebrew, “I will be who will be.” It’s how it probably should be translated.

Hank Smith: 29:07 I will be who will be.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 29:09 That’s right. He says, “Tell them that. I am the one who promised Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Israel who is going to not only deliver you from bondage, physically, but from the bondage of sin, eternally. I am the one who will be.”

Hank Smith: 29:37 Could I relate this to the idea of Moses has got to prove he’s from God, truly been called?

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 29:44 That’s right. And only the Israelites passed down from Abraham know this. He says, “You are to tell them, that’s what you should say, and they’ll understand.” Now when Moses goes back, he doesn’t say, 

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 30:00 I Will Be sent me, because they’re going to get confused. He’s going to tell them, “He Will Be sent me.” He changes the person from I Will Be, that he was telling Moses, to He Will Be in the third person. And that’s where you get the word Jehovah. Jehovah means he will be. And he is to tell them also that he is the one that covenanted with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. This is the very one.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 30:33 In verse 16 he commands Moses, “Go back to Egypt and gather the elders of Israel, and say unto them that Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has appeared to me, has heard your prayers.”

Hank Smith: 30:53 And then he flat out tells him, by the way, Pharaoh’s not going to let you go.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 30:59 He says, yeah.

Hank Smith: 31:00 There’s going to be some other things that are going to have to happen. So just so you know.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 31:03 That phrase sets up the battle between the gods, the battle between the so-called God, Horus, who is Pharaoh and the true son of God. We’re going to see this battle play out between them. It’s not between Moses and Pharaoh, it’s between the God of Moses and Pharaoh. And we’re going to see who really is the powerful one.

Hank Smith: 31:31 We talked about earlier, about this staying on a personal level. And it’s the idea of, someone gets stuck in an addiction, and it’s a battle of Satan versus the Savior. And the Savior’s saying, “Look, Satan doesn’t let go. So we’re going to have a battle here for you.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 31:49 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 31:50 For your soul.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 31:51 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 31:51 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go. No, not by a mighty hand.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 31:58 Pharaoh with the club, his hand raised in all of the imagery, throughout all of the palaces and temples of Egypt, that is a symbol for the strength of the mighty hand. But God is going to show him, “Hey, listen, we can’t come at him with armies. That’s not how this works. We need to show him who has the mightier hand here.” And he keeps repeating that. Because look at the next verse, verse 20.

John Bytheway: 32:29 And I will stretch out my hand and smite Egypt with all my wonders, which I will do in the midst thereof. And after that, he will let you go.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 32:38 What symbol is stronger than that image of Pharaoh raising his hand? It’s the hand of God, Jehovah, who is really mightier than Pharaoh. And he says, “After I do it, he will let you go.”

Hank Smith: 32:57 He’s pretty confident in himself. He will let you go.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 33:01 He will. That’s right. And then he says in the last verse, and by the way, you’re going to load up on all their stuff.

Hank Smith: 33:08 Here take some spoils with you.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 33:09 You’re going to take some spoils with you, because this is a victory. And it’s the victory of Jehovah over Horus.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 33:17 And then starting in chapter four, Moses starts questioning, he starts asking these questions. “Well, what if they don’t believe me?”

Hank Smith: 33:27 They’re going to say the Lord didn’t appear to you.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 33:29 He didn’t appear to you.

John Bytheway: 33:31 Oh, we remember you. Where have you been anyway?

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 33:35 And then the Lord says, I’ll tell you what, let me provide you with some power, if you will, to show them. And notice every time he uses his hand. He says, “Let me show you. It’s not the way I do it, but for you, use your hand. At first he says, your staff. “What’s in your hand?” he says. ” It’s my shepherd staff.” “Throw it on the ground and watch what I do.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 34:05 And notice, it doesn’t turn into a dragon, or a monster of some sort, what does it turn into?

Hank Smith: 34:13 The serpent, this is garden language.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 34:15 A serpent. This is garden language. But this time the serpent is an image of the true God. Now Pharaoh’s going to try to do the same thing, because what? He has that serpent on his crown, right? He’s like, “Ah, that’s child’s play. Watch this.” And that’s not going to work. And then he says, “Take your hand and put it close to your chest.” He says, “Let me show you what I can do to the body.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 34:43 He sees that it’s, “Leprous like snow,” he says. He says, “Put your hand back there. And he heals it.” He says, “I’m able to heal.” And he says, “If Israel does not heed this first sign, then they’ll believe the second one.” And he still sees that Moses is scratching his head. Yeah, those are good. Those are really good. I like those. I like those.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 35:10 God says, “Okay, fine. One more. Take that water and pour it on the ground. What do you see?” Blood. He says, “This they will believe. The water will turn to blood on dry ground.”

Hank Smith: 35:27 You can turn your staff into a snake, or you can make your hand leprous and then not leprous again. And you can pour water out and it’ll turn to blood. That would be pretty convincing. But Moses is still a little doubtful.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 35:41 He still is. He still is.

Hank Smith: 35:42 I don’t know how to talk.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 35:44 Yeah. Yeah. It says that his mouth is heavy. But this word for heavy can mean a number of different things. It doesn’t necessarily have to mean a speech impediment. It could have to do with language. It could be, ” Listen, I don’t speak Hebrew like they do.”

Hank Smith: 36:04 I don’t speak the language.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 36:06 I don’t speak the language. That could be part of it. “I know Egyptian pretty well. I’m learning this Midianite accent over here. I understand you, Lord. But I don’t know if I’m the guy to say the words.” And then of course God says, “Moses, who’s the one who controls your mouth? I am the one.” He says again in verse 12. Let’s see what that says.

Hank Smith: 36:35 “Now therefore go. I will be with thy mouth and teach thee what thou shalt say.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 36:41 That’s right. Now what’s interesting in the language here is something interesting. The word to go is a famous word amongst the Israelites, the Jews today. God gives him a command. It’s a command. Lech It’s the same command that he gave Abraham. Lech Lecha “Go now to the land of Canaan,” he says. It’s an important command. Go. You don’t get to think about it. You don’t get to see if you have time for it. It’s a prompting. It’s a command. You need to go.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 37:23 And then he says, “I will be,” and you know what that word is? The same word that he said his name is, ehyeh. But it says, I will be, ehyeh in piha. I will be with your mouth. In other words, your words will be my words. Ehyeh will be speaking, Moses. Do you understand that? My spirit will be with you, that the words that are coming out of your mouth will be Ehyeh’s words.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 38:03 And next he says, “And I will instruct you.” The word for I will teach you is the word Torah, Torah. Now you’ve probably heard that word before. Torah is usually translated as the law. The law, that Torah.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 38:20 But Torah, the law, really means instruction. It means teaching. We often think Torah, or the law, means these really harsh commands. That is the farthest of what it means here. It means just what he says right here. I will teach you what to do, is the law. I wish we could say, “And Moses went forth into Egypt and appeared before…” No. Moses has one more question, or at least one more thing. He’s hearing all this and he’s saying, “Lord, I know I believe this, but if it be Thy will, let this pass to another.” He says, “Send somebody else.”

Hank Smith: 39:11 I need a companion.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 39:13 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 39:13 I need…

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 39:14 Because I don’t know if I can do this by myself. When Christ said that in the Garden of Gethsemane what does the father do? “And he sent an angel to comfort him, and he was able to fulfill the atonement.” Here, God says, “Moses, I will send somebody for you who will be with you. He’ll help you.” And it’s his brother, Aaron.

Hank Smith: 39:43 This is great.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 39:43 Isn’t that great? Isn’t that?

Hank Smith: 39:45 His angel brother.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 39:46 Your angel brother. He knows what to say to you.

Hank Smith: 39:49 And Moses goes immediately to Jethro, which you can kind of tell that relationship.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 39:54 So he goes immediately from the mountain to his father-in-law. I’m sure he recounts all the things. He says, “I’ve been called on this mission. Let me go.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 40:04 Now notice Moses doesn’t say, “I got to go.” He has this respect and this understanding for who Jethro, the presiding priest here, of this God that he just met with. He doesn’t say, “Hey, guess who I just talked with?” Right? “And this is what I got to do.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 40:26 He requests respectfully, “Let me go to do this thing.” And what does Jethro say to him? And he uses the same word as God, lech He’s not just saying, “Oh, okay. No, I understand. You can go.” No, he uses the same word that God does. Lech la shalom. It’s a command. Go. And he says, “La shalom, go in peace.”

Hank Smith: 40:59 And then the Lord says it again to Moses, it looks like, in 19.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 41:02 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 41:02 Go, return to Egypt.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 41:05 It says, lech shuv this time. Go, return to Egypt. So I’m sending you back in.

Hank Smith: 41:14 I’m seeing so much Matthew here too. The men are dead which sought thy life. That’s straight…

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 41:19 That’s right.

Hank Smith: 41:19 And Matthew’s going to use all this language when he tells Jesus’ story.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 41:22 He is, he is. Now Moses doesn’t tell everybody, “Okay, I’m out of here. I don’t know when I’ll be back. But when I’m back, there’s going to be a lot of people with me.” But he takes his family, his wife, his sons. He takes the staff, the shepherd staff, because he learned how to be a shepherd. And he took God with him. And they all go, through the desert again, back to Egypt.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 41:51 You have here at the tail end, some interesting things happening. Let’s just look at it, at verse 22. The words of the Lord to Moses as he’s journeying to Egypt. Look what he tells him here, in verse 22.

Hank Smith: 42:06 It says, “And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even in my firstborn.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 42:14 Yes. Now that’s going to be a major statement because Pharaoh is lining up his firstborn to succeed him. Okay? It’s very important that the successor of Egypt is the right one. Well, the Lord has a better plan. He says, “Okay, that’s all good and well, but Israel is my firstborn son.” Isn’t that interesting.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 42:41 And in verse 23, that this is the reason why Pharaoh, now God is talking to Pharaoh, of course, he’s telling Moses this, but this is a conversation between gods, if you will, or God and the Pharaoh man. He’s saying, “Israel is my firstborn and you must let him go. Otherwise, I will slay your firstborn son.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 43:09 Then we get this really interesting episode on the journey as their camp in Zipporah is very interesting. She says this thing to Moses, and maybe we can just touch on it, because folks are going to wonder what’s happening here. Right? And there’s a lot of information that’s probably not here. This looks like an excerpt that gets thrown in there, with not a lot of detail.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 43:38 But it says that, for some reason they’re camped out, and the Lord is upset with Moses. Now the rabbis have a lot to say about this. And they go into this very long commentary on what’s really happening here. The rabbi starts saying, “What happened to Gershom? Why aren’t we talking about Gershom?” And the other rabbis say, “Yeah.”

Hank Smith: 44:03 Oh, the son.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 44:04 Well, yeah, the son. Was he circumcised according to the Abrahamic covenant? God must have told him about that. And then the rabbis say, “He wasn’t.” As a matter of fact, they never say that he was. This is very important. And they start having this long, drawn out commentary. And they said. “The Lord was upset with Moses because he didn’t do that.” And Zipporah is telling him, ” Moses, you got to do this. It’s part of the covenant. You have to do it.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 44:34 And Moses is not doing it. As a matter of fact, he’s trying to find them lodging and set up the camp. He’s not focusing on the commands of God. This is hearkening back to the creation. Are you going to keep all the commandments of God? Because remember that one he said about being fruitful and filling the earth, the first one? “Well, I’m busy.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 44:56 So it’s very interesting, Zipporah then, it says, the rabbis say in the commentary, “She takes matters into her own hands.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 45:00 And she says, “Well, if you’re not going to focus on this, then I’m going to do it.” And she circumcises Gershom. And she tells Moses, the translation is very odd, “You are a bridegroom of blood of me.” I don’t know how it’s translated. What’s your translation say, verse 25?

Hank Smith: 45:26 “It’s a bloody husband art thou to me.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 45:30 Yeah. Yeah. It’s not the word of husband. It’s the word, son-in-law. So that’s where they get the connection. Moses is supposed to be doing something his father-in-law said to do. And the only thing he would have said to do in regard to what it’s saying here is the circumcision. It looks like she’s yelling at him. “You are this.” But it might not be that she’s criticizing him. It might be that she’s saying, “Okay. Now, the blood of the circumcision, which is the sign of the covenant, the son-in-law of the priest needs to do that.”

Hank Smith: 46:12 And then, the Lord is preparing Aaron, which is wonderful. Right? When Moses is coming towards Egypt, there’s Aaron, ready to move.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 46:20 There he is.

Hank Smith: 46:21 That’s got to be a nice boost of confidence.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 46:23 That’s right. And the Lord even tells before he gets there, “Moses, your brother is coming, even as we speak.” And sure enough, Aaron follows the prompting and heads out there. In chapter five, we get Aaron and Moses standing before Pharaoh delivering the message, being the-

Hank Smith: 46:41 “Let my people go.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 46:43 “Let my people go.” Okay? Of course, the arrogant, prideful Pharaoh, who thinks there is no God above him, asks a interesting question. Verse two.

John Bytheway: 46:58 And Pharaoh said, “Who is the Lord that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the Lord, neither will I let Israel go.”

Hank Smith: 47:07 Thanks, King Noah.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 47:08 Yeah. Yeah. Isn’t that funny? The arrogant, prideful are just like that. He really says, “Who is Jehovah? Never heard of him. I’ve heard of Ra, I’ve heard of Amun, I’ve heard of Thoth, and all the other great Egyptian gods that you can see them all around me. I never heard of this one. And who is he to command me?” Well, we know the rest of the story. And I think folks know this, that Pharaoh says, “I’ll tell you what. Why don’t I do this? Instead of letting the Hebrews go, why don’t I just make it more difficult for them again?” Now, remember, before Moses, there’s a previous verse that says Moses hears that the original king has died. So here, we have the son of the king now. The heir in Egypt who is even more ruthless. Moses is not having a lot of good luck here, the Israelites [crosstalk 00:48:09]

Hank Smith: 48:09 … it got worse.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 48:11 It got worse.

Hank Smith: 48:11 He came to free them, and he made it worse.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 48:13 He reminds Moses. He has to keep reminding him. And He keeps it very simple. Verse two.

John Bytheway: 48:20 And God spake unto Moses and said unto him, “I am the Lord.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 48:27 “I am Jehovah”. That’s all He says. But He does it in a personal way. It’s not the formal way, Ehyeh. He doesn’t say Ehyeh. He says Ahni. It’s personal. “I am Jehovah”. It’s just like if you were to tell your child, who’s struggling, “I’m your father,” or “I’m your mother. I know what you’re going through and I know how you’re feeling. But I’m here.” It’s that wonderful sense of peace.

Hank Smith: 49:01 Which is great, because He already told him. I remember back in chapter three, He told him. He’s not going to let you go. It seems like Moses forgot that part.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 49:08 Yeah. He forgot that part.

Hank Smith: 49:09 “I went and did what you said and he didn’t let us go and you haven’t delivered us.” God’s almost like, “We talked about this.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 49:17 He continues throughout the beginning of chapter six. He’s telling him, “Listen.” He points him back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. “Remember the things that we learned on the Mount? Remember the things we talked about in the temple? When we go to the temple today, we don’t need the things that we learned in the temple to be used in the temple as much as we need them to be used when we leave the temple. That’s when we need that stuff.”

Hank Smith: 49:48 “Remember what you learned in the temple? Can you remember that when you’re outside the temple?”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 49:54 Yes. He reminds him in verse four of chapter six about the covenant that he has with him. Verse five, He says, “I remember my covenant. Don’t think I’ve forgotten.”

Hank Smith: 50:08 Anthony, this is great stuff. When we go through difficult things, remember your temple experiences. Remember the promises.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 50:15 That’s right. And then, in verse six, He repeats himself. “I am Jehovah.” So that little pep talk right there is so important. And then, He tells him, “Okay, fine. Remember when I told you I am going to stretch out my hand? You remind them that I am Jehovah, your God. And he says in verse eight, “I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who we all know and all are related to, about the promised land.”

Hank Smith: 50:50 Yeah. I love this back and forth though, Anthony. The Lord’s like very, “I am the Lord. We’re going to do this.” And Moses keeps, “No one’s listening. It’s not happening.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 51:00 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 51:01 “They don’t believe me.” In your head, you’re thinking, “Come on, Moses. Get with the program.” But how often do I do this in life? Right? We all do the same thing. We have great confidence in the Lord, and then, all of a sudden, slightest thing happens and confidence is gone.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 51:17 But notice the Lord keeps repeating himself.

Hank Smith: 51:20 A pep talk.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 51:22 Over and over again. He’s not telling him anything new. He keeps reminding him.

John Bytheway: 51:28 “I got this. You know who I am.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 51:30 Chapter six ends with that. And it goes right into a genealogy. So we started off with ele shemot. These are the names. And we end this portion, chapter six, with the names of all the sons. We learned the name in verse 20. We learned the name of Moses’s parents. Amram was the man. A great way for us to conclude, if you will, John, is the names preserved the name of God. So this is all about specific people with names, from the names of the midwives that just pop out to the name of Moses, Moses Moshe, right? To the name of Jethro, and who he was, and his situation, and his priesthood, to the names of Moses’ sons, to the names throughout. The one name we do not get is the name of Pharaoh because it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter who he is.

Hank Smith: 52:44 Pharaohs come and go. Yeah.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 52:46 And then, finally, the name of God revealed, and taught, and understood that He will be. That’s what Jehovah means. He will be. Not only will He be with you now, but one day, God, Himself, He will be born in Bethlehem and work out the salvation and the deliverance from sin for all.

Hank Smith: 53:14 This is fascinating stuff. They name everybody except for Pharaoh. Except for Pharaoh. He never gets named. Anthony, this has been really fun. This is really going to help me when I teach Matthew. I know that Matthew’s referencing Moses a lot, but I started to see more and more. But in the gospels, they skip Jesus’s childhood, basically. I mean, from He’s an infant, then He’s a grown man. Well, Moses has pretty much the same story. He’s an infant, and he’s a grown man. Right? And I was like, “Oh, I wonder if they did that on purpose to… This idea of a new Moses.” Right? “They know this story already.” One thing I really enjoyed was, when we think of Moses, we think of Moses, the end-product Moses. But Exodus one through six gives us the… He’s not as confident as that Moses we have in our head. He’s not as sure of God’s promises. He’s getting his confidence built through some experience. Right? That’s so human of all of us that you don’t walk onto the scene as the big prophet.

John Bytheway: 54:18 We can relate it to all of us. “Who am I? Why did I get this calling? I can’t do it. And let me enumerate all of the reasons now, Lord, why I can’t do it.” And then, once things go wrong, “See, Lord? I told you. Look what just happened. I’m failing. I thought you were going to help me? You called the wrong guy.”

Hank Smith: 54:35 The Lord is so patient with him. He’s like, “Okay. Let’s-

John Bytheway: 54:39 “I got this.”

Hank Smith: 54:40 “Let’s talk again.”

John Bytheway: 54:40 Well, I’m thinking of the Book of Mormon. When Alma is like, “What do I do? The rising generation’s leaving.” The Lord says, “Alma, this is not your church. This is my church. I got this.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 54:50 Exactly.

John Bytheway: 54:51 And it reminds me of that. “I am the Lord.” Enoch says similar words. “I’m of slow speech. I’m of a slow tongue.” And then, this is Enoch that is such a leader, or influence, or something, that his whole city gets taken. But when it starts out, it’s like, “I can’t talk. I’m a lad. And the people hate me.” There’s that, “I will be with you,” though. “But I will be with thee.”

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 55:13 These first chapters, we have to keep it down to earth that he’s working things out. And we have to follow his example on how it works out. He’s not perfect. But he’s trying to do what God says. But God keeps reminding him and pointing him back to their first meeting on the mountain in the temple.

John Bytheway: 55:36 Love the Hebrew we’ve learned today and-

Hank Smith: 55:38 I was going to say, when you would do those full verses in Hebrew, there’s a power in that I had not realized.

John Bytheway: 55:44 I got to go to the Holy Land and attend sacrament meeting in the Galilee Branch. And I don’t even know if it’s there anymore, but you overlook the Sea of Galilee in this chapel, and it’s just a house. But this man and his son blessed the sacrament in Hebrew. Amazing to hear the sacrament prayer in Hebrew, because the first word was Elohim. I mean, the feeling of reverence that came over the room as he did the sacrament prayers was awesome.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 56:17 Yeah. You hear it in the language-

John Bytheway: 56:20 To hear it that way was so cool. And so, thank you for doing that.

Anthony Riveras Jr.: 56:25 I teach classes to members and non-members. What’s interesting that’s happening right now in my teachings is there are a lot of non-LDS people who are searching and they’re asking these questions. They’re asking questions about covenants, and about temples, and about Melchizedek. I’m thinking, “Whoa.” I read together with them, the Hebrew text, just like we do here. And let me tell you this. The Lord is hastening his work. He’s working on these people. And I hope that members feel that same spirit as they study this incredible piece of scripture, because, like we saw today, their spirit in there, that we need to remember God keeps reminding Moses to remind Israel about Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob. He’s intertwining in the text to remember the creation, to remember the garden. And we see it written throughout all scripture from the Book of Mormon, which understands it completely, gets it to modern-day Revelation. So important. So important.

Hank Smith: 57:40 We want to thank Dr. Anthony Rivera for joining us today. Wow. What an awesome day. I need to go learn Hebrew, John. You and I both. We need to learn some more Hebrew. We need to speak it.

John Bytheway: 57:51 Yeah, no kidding.

Hank Smith: 57:52 We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorensen. Our sponsors this year, David and Verla Sorensen. And we hope all of you will join us next week on another episode of Follow Him.