John Bytheway: 00:03 Welcome to Part Two of this week’s podcast.

Hank Smith: 00:07 There’s a great talk in the April 2003 General Conference by David E Sorensen. He was in the Presidency of the 70s, at the time. It’s called Forgiveness will Change Bitterness to Love, and he talks about these two farmers in the middle of Utah. Mike, you probably remember this story.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 00:25 I do.

Hank Smith: 00:26 Chett and Walt, who got into a disagreement over water rights, and it ended up becoming actually a murder case, and just two neighbors. With fighting and murder, and the children and grandchildren are involved later, that they still hate each other. Then Elder Sorensen goes through the story of Joseph, where he says, “You can change this bitterness to love.” And this is what he says, “That is not to say that forgiveness is easy. When someone has hurt us or those we care about, that pain can almost be overwhelming. It can feel as if the pain, or the injustice is the most important thing in the world, and that we have no choice but to seek vengeance.”

Hank Smith: 01:13 “But Christ, the Prince of Peace, teaches us a better way. It can be very difficult to forgive someone the harm they’ve done to us. But when we do, we open ourselves up to a better future. No longer does someone else’s wrongdoing control our course. When we forgive others, it frees us to choose how we will live our own lives. Forgiveness means that the problems of the past no longer dictate our destinies and we can focus on the future with God’s love in our hearts.”

Hank Smith: 01:39 So I’ll just encourage everyone to go read this talk, or go listen to it from David Sorensen. It’s a beautiful one, because Joseph could focus on the 22 years he did not have Father in his life, but he chooses not to.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 01:55 The next principle that I think is really important, we’ve got one more weeping. Joseph’s going to weep one more time. And this idea is going to be emphasized again, that God will make the negatives positive. Genesis is going to end in that. So, here’s the principle is the way I’d say it. Accept forgiveness when it is offered freely. Remember, there are no servants in the kingdom, only brothers.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 02:24 So Jacob dies. He’s in Egypt 17 years. Genesis 50. So, if it was, let’s say year 22, when he comes down from the selling. Okay, Joseph was sold. 22 years later, the family comes down. 17 years later, so we are at 39 years now, after the injury was done to Joseph, and Jacob dies. Now, what do the brothers think?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 02:55 Verse 15, “When Joseph’s brethren saw that their father was dead, they said Joseph will per adventure hate us. And will certainly requite us all the evil which we did unto him.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 03:09 That’s the expectation of a lot of people. The vengeance attitude. They sent a messenger unto Joseph, saying, “Thy father did command before he died, saying, so shall ye say unto Joseph. Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren and their sin, for they did unto thee evil. And now we pray thee forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father.” And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 03:42 They haven’t accepted. You know, I wonder how often God weeps, when we don’t really believe he forgives us. When he says, “Look, I’ve not only forgiven. I forget. And it’s important in your relationship to realize that I not only forgive, but there is forgetfulness in the relationship and you need to forget it, too.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 04:07 Joseph wept, when they spake unto him and his brethren also went and fell down before his face. And they said, “Behold, we be thy servants.” Now, Joseph doesn’t want servants, he wants brothers. There’s an echo in the prodigal son. What does the prodigal son say to his father? “I will arise. I will go to my father and I will say unto him, father I have sinned before heaven, and in thy sight.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 04:33 Just what the brothers are saying here. “We did evil. We know.” “I am no more worthy to be called thy son.” “We are no more worthy to be called thy brothers, make me as one of thy servants.” I know the relationship can’t be the same, so I’m content with servant. And the prodigal son was given to answer the question. When we return, when we come near, do we come near as servants? Do we return as servants in the kingdom? Or do we return as brothers and sons?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 05:06 And Joseph said unto them, “Fear not, for am I in the place of God?” As for you, you thought evil against me. I’ll admit that. “But God meant it unto good to bring to pass as it is this day, to save much people life.” We’re back at that theme, God will make all negatives positive.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 05:25 “Now, therefore, fear you not. I will nourish you and your little ones. And he comforted them and spake kindly unto them.” Sometimes when you’re the sinned against, when you’re on the hurting end of a problem, and the other person truly is wrestling with their own guilt, and their own shame, and their own part of that, they need to be reassured, often again and again. They’re forgiven, it’s forgotten. There’s no hardness in the heart and you can come near. I want you near. I don’t want you trailing clouds of guilt and shame, and I don’t want to trail clouds of just a little bit of still resentment and anger. We’re going to forget, both of us. We’re going to find the forgetfulness in the forgiveness. So, when forgiveness is offered freely, accept it. And remember, there are no servants in the kingdom. There are only sons, there are only brothers. And that’s a wonderful place. That’s the last great truth, emphasis to the book of Genesis. The book of family.

John Bytheway: 06:39 Yeah, that verse 17, because I’m thinking too, that Jacob has to forgive the sons for what they did to Joseph.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 06:49 He does.

John Bytheway: 06:50 Here, he’s saying-

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 06:51 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 06:51 “Joseph, forgive your brothers.” And gosh, Jacob must have had to … “You did what? You did what for these 22 years? I haven’t had my son around me because you sold him, and told me that he was killed. And he’s alive?” Wow.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 07:09 Now there’s great irony, when they’ve sold Joseph, they come back to Jacob and he’s weeping, now they can kind of end his weeping. And the verse says, they comforted him. And I’d say, well, that’s an ironic word. They comforted him about the loss of Joseph, when they know he’s not. Benjamin probably didn’t know. Maybe Benjamin, all his life. I don’t suppose Leah knew. That would’ve been an interesting meeting, to go back when Jacob, Leah, Jo- the whole family finds out and they have to say what they did, and what’s happened, and great hurt was done to Joseph.

John Bytheway: 07:52 And to Jacob. Yeah.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 07:54 And to Jacob. And to Benjamin.

John Bytheway: 07:57 Yeah.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 07:58 And great hurt requires great forgiveness.

John Bytheway: 08:01 When you were saying, accept forgiveness when it’s freely offered, a verse that came to mind, to me, that I missed something profound in this for so many years, when Alma is talking to the Zoramites, who on the Rameumptom said, “Thou has made it known unto us, there will be no Christ.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 08:18 Right.

John Bytheway: 08:18 And so Alma goes through these texts from the plates of brass and says, “Look, God will have a son. Look at all these verses about God will have a son.” Well, in Alma, 33:16, ” For behold, he said,” and this is Alma saying, “Zenock spake of these things.” So this is Zenock, “Thou art angry, oh Lord, with this people, because they will not understand thy mercies, which though has bestowed upon them because of thy son.”

John Bytheway: 08:44 And I always read it saying, “Oh look, he’s saying, see, God will have a son. Your doctrine on the Rameumptom was wrong.” But I missed that beautiful phrase, “Thou art angry, oh Lord, with this people because they will not understand thy mercies.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 08:59 But if I could improve on that verse, I would say, God weeps when you don’t understand that.

John Bytheway: 09:08 Yeah.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 09:09 That verse says he’s angry. I’m not trying to correct the Book of Mormon.

John Bytheway: 09:14 Right.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 09:14 But I’m saying, I think you can improve on it. In this case, it is a weeping.

Hank Smith: 09:20 Yeah.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 09:20 “I don’t want you to carry this. Let it go.”

John Bytheway: 09:25 Don’t you understand my mercy?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 09:27 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 09:28 Yeah.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 09:28 My mercy. “We’re brothers. I don’t want servants. It pains me for you to think that I would take vengeance on you,” or that, “You don’t understand, for the last 17 years, I forgave you. I forgave you before you even know who I was.”

Hank Smith: 09:50 Mike, I’ve heard you talk about in the past this idea of, twice blessed. I think it’s an old quote that you used to teach with. Can you bring that back up?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 09:59 That’s from the Merchant of Venice, it’s Shakespeare, and Shakespeare always has the ability to say beautifully what needs to be said. So here is the speech, it’s given by Portia when Shylock wants his pound of flesh. He wants vengeance. He wants revenge. And Portia, the woman, the lead, is trying to show him there’s a better thing than justice.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 10:27 And so she says, “The quality of mercy is not strained. It dropeth as the gentle rain from heaven upon the place beneath. It is twice blessed. It blesses him that gives and him that takes.” That’s what the meaning of twice blessed is, it means both parties are blessed by it. The one who receives the forgiveness, and the one that gives the forgiveness. Joseph teaches that really beautifully. And then the second part of that quote really fits Joseph because Joseph is in a position of power over his brothers. Shakespeare says, ’tis, meaning mercy, “’tis mightiest, in the mightiest. It becomes the throned monarch better than his crown. His scepter shows the force of temporal power. The attribute to awe and majesty wherein does sit the dread and fear of kings. But mercy is above this sceptered sway. It is enthroned in the hearts of kings. It is an attribute to God himself, and earthly power doth then show likest gods when mercy seasons justice. 

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 12:01 “Though justice be thy plea, consider this. That in the course of justice, none of us should see salvation. We do pray for mercy, and that same prayer doth teach us all to render the deeds of mercy.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 12:21 I wish I could write like that. That’s a lovely exclamation point on many stories. There’s reconciliation, like I say, between Sarah and Hagar, between Jacob and Esau.

Hank Smith: 12:36 Twice blessed.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 12:38 Twice blessed, it’s twice blessed. It blesses the person who gives it and it blesses the person who receives it. And it’s easiest to give when we tie it in with the other great principle of Joseph’s life, God’s going to make it all the negatives good.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 12:53 So no matter what people do to hurt you, no matter what happens, if you just stay on the path, God will make it good. Life is fair, life is just. Or at least eternity is, and it’s going to be that way because God has that power and ability to make it all that way. This is a plan of happiness and he wants us happy and that’s how it’s going to end.

Hank Smith: 13:22 It seems like a critical paradigm, Mike, is the idea of if I forgive, I’m not giving up something that I deserve, I’m actually choosing to bless my own life. Just, it seems in forgiveness that I’m sacrificing so much to forgive someone when if you can change that paradigm, that twice blessed, you’re actually choosing a blessing.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 13:44 Yeah. And it’s hard. Forgiveness is hard. Joseph, we don’t know what he felt all those years. I think probably hearing his brother’s agony over it touched something in him, and that’s that first weeping that he gets.

John Bytheway: 14:00 You talked about creating a space in yourself, and I wonder if it took Joseph 22 years to get to the point where he could say, “You know what? Maybe God did this. Maybe God…” Those beautiful verses.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 14:15 When he names his sons?

John Bytheway: 14:16 Yeah. When he says, “God did send me before you to preserve life. God sent me before you, it was not you that sent me hither but God.” Maybe it took him a while to get to that place and say, “Maybe this is how I can make sense of all of this.” Or, “This is the design of God all along.” I wonder if it took time.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 14:39 Yeah. And I assume it did it. It would’ve been nice to have interviewed Joseph at year 10.

John Bytheway: 14:46 How’s it going?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 14:47 How you feeling?

John Bytheway: 14:48 How you feeling about them wings? How’s your family?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 14:53 Right, yeah. We might see a little bit different viewpoint, but he does, through all those years. And we talked about that principle, if you find yourself living the unexpected life, make the best of it and don’t get mad at God.

Hank Smith: 15:09 I wanted you to talk about Judah, the great, great grandfather of Jesus here offering himself and where he says, “How can I go to the father and the lad not be with me?” Do you remember teaching that years ago?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 15:23 I don’t want to read it that this is the meaning of it, but I’m trying to always get insight into the father and the son. The purpose of the scriptures is to answer Pharaoh’s question, that you’ll be talking about, I think, next week. The theme of all scripture, ironically, is given by Pharaoh when he says to Moses, “Who is the Lord that I should obey His voice? I know not the Lord.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 15:53 So the purpose of scripture is to learn to know the Lord so we will obey his voice. The scriptures are the answer to Pharaoh’s question, “Well, let me introduce you to Him.” And if you know this God, you will want to obey Him and worship Him, if you really know what He’s like. So, the story of Judah pleading for his father and his brother, sometimes I like to think of Jesus standing before his Father pleading for all of us, saying, “I will abide instead.”

Hank Smith: 16:31 Yeah, “Take me instead.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 16:34 “Take me instead, and let Michael go up with his brother and let Michael go.” I like the up. “Let Michael go up and be with his father.” So, in a sense, Judah, in pleading for him. Like I say, I’m not saying this is messianic in any way. I don’t think it is messianic. It is a brother pleading for his father who loves this child. He’s a brother pleading for his brother. And in his mind, he doesn’t know Joseph put the silver cup in there.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 17:16 He doesn’t say, “Oh, the little kleptomaniac, let him stay. Good riddance, we finally got rid of Rachel’s other son.” He really pleads for him, and I think Judah in that plea has echoes of the Savior pleaing for all of us, because he knows the distress of his father if we don’t return. And so, “Take me, I will take the consequences and let them go free.”

Hank Smith: 17:50 I love that principle of, “How shall I go up to the father and the lad not be with me? How can I return without him?” There’s a little bit of, in my mind I don’t, obviously I don’t think it was meant this way, but I hear a little John 17, the great intercessory prayer.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 18:07 We might not say that Judah’s a similitude of Christ here or a foreshadowing or a type of Him. But we would say Judah would have an understanding of the heart of Christ. I can hear the Savior say, “Do you understand me now, Judah? Do you understand my heart? Because your heart is with my heart in this thing. Concern for a father who loves his children and the willingness to pay whatever price is necessary in order that the lad be with me.”

Hank Smith: 18:46 You see the connection with Christ’s lineage from the tribe of Judah. Yeah, I think it’s okay to see there.

Hank Smith: 18:52 What were the other two things you want to do?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 18:55 Well, I’ve got, it’s in the patriarchal blessings that are given. Jacob gives Ephraim and Manasseh their blessing, and then he goes to all the others. You sense the tragedy of Reuben a little bit when he calls him the excellency of dignity. Reuben must have been a really wonderful man, but he has that, that he went and defiled Bilhah. And if Joshua is right, that’s an even worse thing.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 19:24 So the next principle I would say, and it’s related to other ones, is our interpretation of events and even prophecies may change dramatically with time and perspective. So, here’s the most interesting of all the blessings to me, it’s in verse five and six and five through seven. It’s Simeon and Levi’s blessings. We usually go to Judah’s blessing, ” The scepter will not depart from Judah till Shiloh comes.” And Joseph’s blessing, “A fruitful bough hanging over the wall.” There’s a lot of talk about that, but I don’t think people talk about Simeon and Levi’s blessings, and I just would point something out to you. So verse five.

Hank Smith: 20:19 What chapter are we in again?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 20:20 Chapter 49. Diana is raped. She’s the younger sister of Leah’s family, Judah and Simeon. So, they go up and they trick the little village where she was not only raped, but they still have her. She’s been kidnapped and they trick him into getting circumcised. And then they go in and they massacre all the men. Okay.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 20:42 You know that story. It’s Jacob is referring to that moment. Genesis is a violent world. It’s not a safe world. And so he says, “Simeon and Levi are brethren, instruments of cruelty are in their habitations. They killed innocent people. O my soul, come not thou into their secret. Under their assembly, mine honor be not thou united, for in their anger they slew a man and in their self-will they dig down a wall. Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce. And their wrath, for it was cruel. I will divide and disperse them in Jacob and scatter them in Israel.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 21:20 Now that sounds like a curse. Doesn’t it? I read it for you. I say, “That’s a curse.” But look at in verse seven, “I will divide them in Jacob.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 21:34 Now who’s descendants of Levi? Well, Moses and Aaron are the descendants of Aaron. And what happens to the tribe of Levi? Where is their inheritance in the passing out of tribal inheritances in the land?

John Bytheway: 21:50 They’re spread among everything, aren’t they?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 21:52 They are divided in Jacob and scattered in Israel. But is it a bad thing or a good thing?

John Bytheway: 22:01 That’s where the priesthood is out to bless all of the tribes.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 22:04 That’s where the priesthood is. So, the actual fulfillment of Jacob’s blessing, that I don’t think even he realized when he gave it, it sounds like it’s a really bad thing as you read it in Genesis. But when you get later on in the Old Testament and you realize that the Levites for their devotion to God are given the priesthood and are scattered in all the inheritances of the other tribes in order to bless them with the ordinances and the sacrifices. It is not a curse at all. It really is a blessing.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 22:44 So sometimes our interpretations of events may change dramatically with time and perspective. The fulfillment of cursed, it sounds like a curse, but even God can turn curses into blessings. He can do that in the way they are divided and scattered. It’s a good dividing and a good scattering for them.

Hank Smith: 23:09 Yeah. That’s the theme of today. Isn’t it?

John Bytheway: 23:11 Yeah, exactly.

Hank Smith: 23:11 That the worst of things, the Lord can turn it around.

John Bytheway: 23:16 It’s Isaiah’s beauty for ashes idea.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 23:21 Yeah, it is. Well, maybe one last final thought. Joseph teaches us a lot of things, and there’s a phrase that is used of Jacob and of Joseph. Joseph, in Genesis 50, we didn’t go there, but that’s okay, in the JST. I’ll just pull one thing out of that I really, really love. So, I’m in Genesis 49:33, Jacob’s dying. He’s given all his children blessings, or a curse that turns into a blessing. And in verse 33, 

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 24:00 “When Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed and yielded up the ghost.” And I just love this Old Testament expression, “and was gathered unto his people.” And so, my last principle is death is but a gathering unto our people. And a lot of us have, it’s an emotional thing for me, I debated whether I’d even try and do this, there are people on the other side of the veil that we really want to be gathered to. And I love that phrase, “Death, where is thy sting?” Paul asks. And I would say to Paul, “I know where it is. I know where death’s sting is. It’s right here in my memory and in my heart.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 25:11 I know the sting, but one day we will be gathered unto our people, mothers, fathers, siblings, children, spouses. We go to the Joseph Smith translation Genesis 50:24 through 38. Joseph is now old and he is dying and he gives all these predictions. “There’ll be a Moses. He’ll take you out when Moses comes. When you go back to Canaan, you take my bones with you.” In verse 24 of Genesis 50 in the JST, at the back of page 799, Joseph said unto his brethren, “I die and go unto my fathers. And I go down to my grave with joy.” It’s just a beautiful thing. It’s a beautiful thing because of the reunions. Talk about reconciliations and reunions, that’s got to be one of the most beautiful, to be gathered to your people, and go down to your grave with joy to go to your fathers.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 26:32 And I think to be able to say to the fathers, as Joseph would be able to say, and which I hope to say to my fathers who gave me the inheritance, the birthright I have, the right to Gospel truth, the right to all the beauties of the Gospel truth, and many other blessings. But especially the blessings of truth and a love of God that came from my first ancestors that accepted the Gospel. I was handed down them from my mother and my mother to me that one day. I think Joseph could say to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, “I accepted the gift. I have not broken the chain.” You can say, “Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim, I have not broken the chain. I passed down the birthright. I gave the inheritance. I passed on the gifts and the covenants that you gave to me.” I think he’s also saying to his children, Ephraim and Asa, “You too must pass it on. You too will pass it on.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 27:55 I can see that my children have accepted it. So, if I were to die today, I would be gathered to my fathers, I would be gathered to my people, and I would go down to my grave with joy and be able to say to them, “I passed on the gifts.” My children believe they’re faithful. I know a lot of people try and sometimes the children don’t accept the gifts, and eventually Ephraim is going to be a mess in the Old Testament, the descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh, but at least Joseph has, as Paul, fought a good fight, finished the course, kept the faith, and so he goes down with joy. And that’s what we all want to say when we’re gathered to our people. “I kept the faith. I passed on the gift. I accepted the gifts. I did my very best to pass it on to the next generations.” And every generation has to decide, will they accept those gifts or not? My patriarchal blessing ends with that idea. “I bless you with a spirit of Elijah,” it says, “that you and your posterity will render and fulfill the promises made unto the fathers that though mayest yet meet with them in the resurrection of the righteous with the hand of fellowship, love, and great rejoicing together.”

John Bytheway: 29:27 Wow.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 29:28 So I think one of the last great, beautiful messages of Joseph and Jacob is how to die. I want to be gathered to my people, one person in particular.

John Bytheway: 29:44 Yeah. We started out talking about how these are stories of families, of husbands, of wife relationships, of parents, child, of siblings and isn’t it wonderful that even though those relationships are so rocky in these chapters, that this is what he’s excited about, is to be gathered unto his people, in Jacob’s case, and then for Joseph. Where do you ever see that phrase, “I go down to my grave with joy”?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 30:15 Right.

John Bytheway: 30:15 Isn’t that something?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 30:18 And that’s in the JST. I’m grateful he gave us that little.

John Bytheway: 30:20 Yeah.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 30:21 To me, that’s the most important addition to the JST. We go to some of the other things, the prophecies of the coming to Joseph Smith, but the one that I love most is that phrase, “I go down to my grave with joy.” I’m not going to be ashamed when I stand before them.

John Bytheway: 30:36 I really want to end on a high note, but I did want to ask you, because I’ve had students ask me and they’ve said, “Hey, my patriarchal blessing says I’m the tribe of Dan. And when I look to see what blessing Dan was given,” and usually I’ll just say, “You’ve got to read your own patriarchal blessing.”

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 30:53 Yeah, if I had a son who was given a Dan as a patriarchal lineage, what we don’t want to do is to put some hierarchy. They all have responsibilities. They all have the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, all of them, as does Ishmael.

John Bytheway: 31:15 Yeah. He’s from Abraham.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 31:16 Ishmael fulfills the Abrahamic covenant. Islam is a fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant. The Quran, the prophet Muhammad, is a fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant that God will bless through the lineage of Abraham all the nations of the earth. And Islam has been a great blessing to millions, billions of people for 1,400 years. They also fulfill it. The Jews fulfill the Abrahamic covenant. Christianity fulfills it. Three great religions arose out of Abraham and those are the blessings that are most critical. But the names of them, I think Moses is going to give another set of patriarchal blessings in Deuteronomy and sometimes I go there. So, here’s Reuben in Deuteronomy 33, verse six, “Let Reuben live and not die and let not his men be few.” That’s a beautiful blessing that you would have posterity and live. Live how, where you can interpret that.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 32:33 Verse seven, Judah, “Hear Lord, the voice of Judah. Bring him unto his people. Let his hands be sufficient for him. Be thou a help to him from his enemies.” Levi, who gets the curse, but in chapter 33 of Deuteronomy, verse 10, the Levites, “They shall teach Jacob thy judgements and Israel thy law. They shall put incense, offer the sacrifices. Benjamin, the beloved of the Lord, shall dwell in safety by him and the Lord shall cover him all the day long.” That’s a beautiful blessing to apply to somebody from Benjamin. Verse 18, Zebulun, he said, “Rejoice, Zebulun, in thy going out and, Issachar, in thy tents. They shall call the people unto the mountain.” Zebulun and Issachar I’d say, “Well, you are to rejoice and invite people to the mountain of the Lord. There they shall offer sacrifices of righteousness for they shall suck of the abundance of the sea of treasures hid in the sands.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 34:00 ” And of Gad, blessed be he that enlargeth Gad. He dwelleth as a lion and humbles, teareth the arm with the crown of the head. You get them all and you’ll find positive things. Gad, still in verse 21 with the heads of the people. “He came with the heads of the people. He executed the justice of the Lord and his judgements with Israel.”

John Bytheway: 34:28 Deuteronomy 33 is a great text to put side by side with those patriarchal blessings in Genesis 49 because that helps a lot. And that’s Moses giving each of the tribes a blessing. I’m looking at all the footnotes. There’s about six to Deuteronomy 33 in Genesis 49.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 34:49 Naphtali, “Satisfied with favor full with the blessings of the Lord.” Asher, “Let Asher be blessed with children. Let him be acceptable to his brethren.” I don’t think anybody needs to feel somehow I’m not Ephraim or Manasseh. I’m Naphtali and that somehow that’s a diminishment in any way. You are representing that tribe because they all are represented in the restoration. They all were going to do good things. They would all fulfill the Abrahamic covenant.

John Bytheway: 35:25 They’re all House of Israel.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 35:27 They’re all House of Israel and there are positive things said about all of them.

John Bytheway: 35:30 Yeah.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 35:30 And like I say, even the curse…

John Bytheway: 35:32 Yeah, of Levite.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 35:34 … is a blessing.

John Bytheway: 35:34 Yeah.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 35:34 Even Levite.

John Bytheway: 35:35 Yeah. Oh, well, thank you for covering that.

Hank Smith: 35:39 Mike, this has been just an absolutely wonderful day. Wow. I loved the story of Joseph before. I thought it was one of the greatest stories ever told and I feel that even more so now.

John Bytheway: 35:51 I am so glad you said to mark all of the weepings, and I think those are probably part joy, part sadness. Part, I’m so glad we’re reunited. There was so much that came into each of those weepings I think, it was really fun to mark all of those. 

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 36:08 Relief.

Hank Smith: 36:10 I don’t weep as much as I wish I did, sometimes. I think it’s a gift.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 36:15 There is a beautiful Jewish story about Adam and Eve when they leave the garden and God says to them you are going into a world of incredible pain and challenge and difficulties and your lives are going to be hard and sometimes bitter. So, I brought you a gift. Look. And he holds out his hand and there’s a little pearl, a little clear pearl in the palm of God’s hand. They say what is this? And God says it is a tear. It is a tear. When life is difficult for you, when your heart is full, these pearls will fall from your eyes. You will be comforted.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 37:10 It’s just a beautiful little Jewish wisdom. Tears are a gift from God. We cry a lot of different tears, don’t we.

Hank Smith: 37:19 Mike, before we let you go, I think our listeners would be interested in your thoughts on where your scholarship and your education and your faith, what that journey’s been like for you.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 37:32 I think all of us have our challenges. I was, in my patriarchal blessing, since we kind of talked about those, I was blessed with a believing heart. It’s a good thing, because I also have a questioning mind. Sometimes the believing heart and the questioning mind have some interesting conversations with each other. The Old Testament can spark a lot of those interesting things. Where the heart says yeah, the flood was universal over the whole earth, and my mind says do you know how impossible that really is? We need 10 aircraft carriers to hold all those animals.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 38:20 So occasionally my mind has to tell my heart we need to look at this with reason. And sometimes my heart has to say to my mind you just have to trust me here in some of these issues. I have wrestled with just about every issue in the church that people wrestle with. That is kind of why I did this last little book that you talked about, Holding On. My tactic usually isn’t that I’m always going to be able to resolve all the issues in church history or some social issue today or some scriptural problem. What I want to find are strategies that help me just to hold on.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 39:04 That whole idea in my life of holding on comes from the Old Testament, from, of all books, Habakkuk. How many people ever read Habakkuk? You know? But Habakkuk is wrestling with understanding God and God’s ways. He has questions and he wrestles with them. We all have questions and we wrestle with them. It’s okay to have questions, it’s okay to wonder about the church’s stand or the imperfections.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 39:38 I have learned to live with imperfect scriptures, imperfect people, imperfect prophets, imperfect me, imperfect organizations. I’m okay with it. And Habakkuk ends, he doesn’t get answers to all his questions. He’s told by God, trust me. You’ll have to live by your faith. Sometimes faith is like a tiny, tiny little ledge on a high mountain cliff. It’s not a wide road. It’s a tiny little cliff. And Habakkuk says God will make my feet like hind’s feet. A hind is a deer, an ibex, who can walk on the tiniest little ledges of rock.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 40:26 There have been times in my life where my faith felt like Habakkuk’s high places. He will give me hind’s feet that I may walk on my high places and not fall off. I just have learned to hold on. Sooner or later the path widens. I haven’t been walking on a tiny ledge all my life, but I know what it’s like to walk on a tiny ledge and have the road widen and go back and it goes back to a tiny ledge. So, we just hold on.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 41:02 I’m grateful for Habakkuk’s image, it’s a beautiful image. I try to help people. The road will widen. There’s in Genesis a beautiful thing that the servant of Abraham says when he’s going to get Rebekah. He finds her. She waters the camel, I’m sure you’ve talked about that, there’s 10 camels. He says, I being in the way God led me, to Rebekah. To my master’s brother. I like that, I being in the way. If I just stay on the path God can lead me.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 41:44 So I say every good thing you want in life is on the path. Every good thing you want is on the path somewhere. It may not be at the position on the path that you want it to be on. It may be way down the path. But if I leave the path, God can’t lead me. He can only give me all my heart desires if I stay on the path.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 42:13 I really love that phrase, I being in the way God led me. So we want to stay on the path. When the path narrows and it doesn’t seem like I can progress or move anywhere, maybe I won’t progress for a while. I just hold on. I just take those hind’s feet God gave me and I just hold on. We’ve all seen images of mountain goats and ibex. Every time I go to Israel to the Judean wilderness I am hoping to show the people the ibex on the narrow ledges of the cliffs so they have a good visual of Habakkuk and they have a good visual for their lives and what they need to do.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 42:57 But I do know what it is to wrestle with issues and to feel that fear that comes into your heart. What if it’s not true, what if … I don’t like this position. To be angry, even. Angry at God, angry at the church. All those things. I know very deeply by personal experience. But I have the believing heart.

Hank Smith: 43:27 Yeah. So, you stay on the path.

John Bytheway: 43:31 I love that. Every good thing you want in life is on the path. Maybe President Nelson would say on the Covenant Path, right?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 43:40 Yeah. We just stay on it.

John Bytheway: 43:44 The good things are there. Eventually.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 43:46 In Islam you build your own path. In Christianity it’s the narrow path you want to be on. In Islam it’s the broad path you want to be on because you build it. The path into heaven lies over a chasm, kind of like Indiana Jones. You build it by your good deeds. So, the more good deeds you do, the more good thoughts, the better your life is lived, the broader the path that walks you into heaven. So, in Christianity I want to stay on the narrow path.

John Bytheway: 44:20 Interesting.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 44:20 But in Islam, Allah is saying the path into heaven is one you will build yourself. Every good deed makes it wider and wider.

John Bytheway: 44:32 Interesting.

Hank Smith: 44:33 How beautiful.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 44:35 Yeah. I love a lot about Islam. Ishmael gave us good things. He also, like I say, fulfilled the Abrahamic covenant, Islam is a fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant.

Hank Smith: 44:48 Wow. John Bytheway, what a day.

John Bytheway: 44:51 Wonderful.

Hank Smith: 44:52 What a day. We love having Mike here because you just know, you just know. We don’t need to gush. We’re grateful for you Mike.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 45:00 Thank you.

Hank Smith: 45:00 We love having you here.

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 45:01 Thank you for letting me come, it’s always nice to feel useful. When you’re 72 you need to feel useful, you’re not as useful as you used to be. Unless you’re President Nelson.

Hank Smith: 45:12 Yeah. He’d say you’re just a kid, wouldn’t he?

Dr. S. Michael Wilcox: 45:15 Yeah, he would.

Hank Smith: 45:16 Imagine that, just getting started. Well thank you everyone for listening and enjoying this time with Dr. Wilcox with us. We’re grateful for your support. We’re thankful for our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorensen, and our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. We hope all of you will join us next week for another episode of FollowHIM.