Hank Smith: 00:00 Hello, everyone. Welcome to followHIM Favorites. My name is Hank Smith. I’m here with the amazing John Bytheway. And we are hosts of a podcast called followHIM. Every week, we do a little podcast called followHIM Favorites. And this year we’re asking a question from the lesson. So John, this week’s lesson is on Noah. I’ve been asked a number of different ways, so I’ll just kind of summarize. A student will say something like, “Was the whole earth flooded? Because my biology teacher says that’s impossible, so this doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.” And it comes up in other places too, right? Like, “Is Jonah really swallowed by a whale?” Things like that. So, John, how would you address that question if someone were to say, “Do I have to throw out this entire story, because is it scientifically possible for the earth to be flooded?” What would you say?

John Bytheway: 00:55 Oh, I think I might say, “Thanks for that question. Hank, would you like to answer that?” That’s probably what I would say.

Hank Smith: 01:01 Yeah. “Why don’t we turn this over to Hank?”

John Bytheway: 01:04 I think we’re all looking for meaning, whether in every single detail, what is the Lord trying to teach us? And that’s a good way to approach scripture. Say, “What can I learn? How do I apply it to my life? What can the Lord teach me here through reading this story?” And I really do think there was a Noah. I really do think there was a Flood. For those that were there, it was really a Flood. Was the whole earth covered? I don’t know. What do you think, Hank?

Hank Smith: 01:33 I think this is an important scripture study skill, especially when it comes to the Old Testament, right, is understanding that there’s a figurative way to read scripture, where it’s mostly symbolic, and then there’s the literal, like this actually happened. There were these people. They were real. You got to slide that spectrum kind of up and down in different stories and try to see what the message is. I always give this example, where Joel says, “The moon will be turned to blood,” in my classes. And I say, “Could God turn the moon to blood? Sure. He’s God.” We’re not going to say, “God, you can’t do that. It’s not scientifically possible.” He’d be like, “Well, I made science so I can do what I want.” Right? But maybe it’s more figurative that the blood is red. And if the moon turns red, it’s looking at the earth. It’s embarrassed. It’s angry.

Hank Smith: 02:25 So maybe this is a symbol for God being embarrassed or angry from what he sees on the earth. The moon turns to blood, right? And the moon will turn to blood. So I would say that’s more of a figurative story than a literal, but it could be literal. It could be a big blob of B+ up there, right, where the Lord could do that, because we’re talking about a savior who is resurrected. Resurrection is not scientifically possible, but we believe it. We believe in the literal resurrection of Jesus, that he really is alive again. So once we have a guy that can do that, what else could he do? Could he flood the earth? Sure. If he wants to. He rose from the dead, right? He apparently can leave the planet whenever he wants and come back. And Third Nephi, he descends, right? And in the Book of Acts, he ascends. So we’ve got a pretty spectacular person that we’re dealing with.

John Bytheway: 03:22 Well, you just brought up Third Nephi, and there’s the face of the whole land was changed, the face of the whole earth. It uses the word, “The face of the whole earth was changed.” Well, if you looked outside and everything was different, and you’re just like, “Well, wow, the face of the whole earth is…” Well, they weren’t seeing everything.

Hank Smith: 03:39 The whole earth, right?

John Bytheway: 03:40 Yeah. And so you take a metaphor like that, which is… What did we learn in English class, Hank? There’s similes and metaphors. And the moon turned to blood, and I’ve always just thought, “Oh, it looked red. It looked like blood, because it was red.” And maybe that was pollutions on the earth that made it look that way when they filtered through the sun. But what is being taught here and how do I apply it to my life? And there’s so many different ways to apply the scriptures. And that’s where what President Nelson has asked us to do to learn to hear him, read this story and say, “What can this, should this mean for me? And how can I be a better follower of the savior because of this story?”

Hank Smith: 04:24 Very good. Yeah. When I read the story of Noah, I just don’t get caught up in, “Oh, okay. I think the Lord needs to tell me if this is scientifically possible.” I kind of push that to the side and say, “Okay, what’s the message I’m trying to get, right?” Which is one, that I need to have my own arc in life, that when the world fills up with wickedness, I better be able to stay above that. Right? I better be able to stay above that. Me and my family, I’ve got to build my own spiritual arc. I see the Lord speaking about baptism, right, that before the Abrahamic covenant can come, the earth is going to be baptized. Right?

John Bytheway: 05:09 Symbolically.

Hank Smith: 05:10 Yeah, I see a lot of different lessons for me, and I don’t really get caught up into this idea of a worldwide flood. In my opinion, I think the Lord would say, “That’s not the point of the story. The point of the story is for you to learn how to be righteous in a wicked world.” That’s one of the major stories of Noah: how to repent.

John Bytheway: 05:36 And Hank, can I share with you, for me, what’s one of my fallback sections of scripture? And this is in section 101 of the Doctrine and Covenants.

Hank Smith: 05:46 Sure.

John Bytheway: 05:47 Especially when we’re thinking age of the earth, dinosaurs, how is it created, I love this. Section 101, starting in verse 32. “Yea, verily I say unto you, in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things.” And when I see “all,” I always like to ask how high a percentage is that? And he’s going to tell us everything-

Hank Smith: 06:07 “All” sounds like a pretty encompassing-

John Bytheway: 06:09 It sounds like a lot. And then you look at verse 33 and listen to this list. “Things which have passed.” What’s under there? Archeology, anthropology, astronomy-

Hank Smith: 06:19 All history.

John Bytheway: 06:20 … science. “Things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof. Things most precious, things that are above, things that are beneath, things that are in the earth and upon the earth and in heaven.” That’s a comprehensive list, right? “Wherefore, fear not even unto death. In this world, your joy is not full. But in me, your joy is full.” That’s a fallback verse. “Hey, one day I’ll tell you everything. Hidden things, which no men knew.” I mean, the scientists will be going, “No way. I didn’t know that.” “And one day I’ll tell you everything. In the meantime, how’s your faith?”

Hank Smith: 06:59 Yeah. Yep. How’s your repenting going? Because to me, Moses chapter eight, Genesis chapters eight and nine, it’s all about are you repenting? That’s the main focus of the story of Noah. So long story short, John, I don’t think we’re trying to dodge the issue here. I think we’re trying to say that’s not the point. So if someone were to say to me, “You really believe there was a worldwide flood? That’s not scientifically possible.” I’d say, “That’s really not the point of the story. The point of the story is can you repent? Do you listen to God? Are you doing what he asked you to do, even if it seems odd to everyone around you?” Noah building the arc, that’s a weird thing to do when everyone else is staring at you. And in my mind, you want to be like Noah? You got to be different if you want to make a difference. And that, to me, is the big takeaway, so.

John Bytheway: 07:57 Right. And someday we’ll know all that. But in the meantime, get your act together with God. Someday we’ll know all that stuff.

Hank Smith: 08:03 That’s your repentance.

John Bytheway: 08:04 Yep. But how you doing.

Hank Smith: 08:06 Right. Well, we hope you will join us next week. We’ll have another great question for followHIM Favorites.