John Bytheway: 00:00:00 Continue listening for part two with Dr. Ken Alford, Doctrine & Covenants sections 41 through 44.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:00:08 If you look in verse 30, we enter in where this is the first time the Lord is letting the saints understand what the law of consecration is. He says, thou wilt remember the poor and consecrate of thy properties. I think it’s important to recognize what the English word consecrate means. We use it a lot in the church, but we don’t always step back and define it. To consecrate something means to dedicate it for a specific sacred purpose. And so if we’re consecrating our time, we’re donating our time for a sacred purpose. Serving in the temple or doing our church calling or whatever it might be. President Monson said that the storehouse, which is where you put consecrated things, he said, the storehouse also includes our time, our talents, our resources, and basically everything we have. And here the Lord starting in verse 30, lays out these principles on what the law of consecration is and how the law of consecration will work. There’s going to be a lot more explanation coming up in the Doctrine and Covenants to help poor Bishop Partridge who’s trying to practice this law in Missouri as a hatter.

Hank Smith: 00:01:23 We saw the Lord do this similarly when he said, oh, I’m going to endow you with power. He just throws a new word out and then we’re going to build on that. This is, I think, the first mention of this word.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:01:37 It becomes a big deal.

Hank Smith: 00:01:39 Yeah. And even for us today, we hear this same idea of consecration later. So Kent, thank you for pointing that out. I’d never seen, John we’ve talked about this where the Lord says, Hey, what about Zion? And then leaves it out there for a little while. What about the purpose of Zion? I love how he is as a teacher. He doesn’t flood them with this information. Let’s learn the word first. right?

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:02:00 He doesn’t give them all the details on how to practice the law. That’s section 51. He doesn’t talk about deeds of consecration and deeds of stewardship and having people put money in the storehouse. He mentions the storehouse in verse 34. He says, we’re going to have a storehouse. And I’m sure at the time they’re probably not even thinking what the mechanics are on all of that. But interestingly, the first storehouse of the church is one of the rooms in the Whitney store. As you look at the Whitney store, it’s the room on the right, and that becomes the first storehouse of the church. It’s very modest, but everything has to start somewhere, where today the storehouse system is worldwide and is really wonderful. But verse 32, I think is kind of an encapsulation of this law of consecration where it talks about laying before the bishop.

  00:02:53 And that’s what the saints would do as they did the financial piece. Basically, the law of consecration is the Lord’s way of handling things. Christ told us in the New Testament, the poor are always with us. And that’s the case. The only time that’s not the case is when the people fully live the law of consecration, as it tells us in the book of Moses, there were no poor among them. Well, how did they get rid of the poor? They got rid of the poor because they were living fully the law of consecration. And that eliminates the poor. Short of that, any manmade system doesn’t matter whether it’s capitalism, socialism, communism, or anything in between, it’s never going to work perfectly. And you’re always going to have poor people. But God has figured out, like everything else, he’s figured out how to fix things. This law of consecration that is laid out here in the initial stages in section 42 is God’s plan on how to just take care of everyone.

  00:03:54 So verse 32, he talks about consecration, consecrating your worldly goods to the church. He then talks about that you’ll have a stewardship, they were given back. I’m sure you’ll talk more about this when you get to section 51. But then it talks about people being accountable. So the principles with the law of consecration are you have your agency to do this, then you’re given a stewardship that you’re responsible for and you’re accountable for it. If we all become accountable stewards that have consecrated to the Lord, boy, think what we could do. Sometimes I’ve heard well-meaning teachers in various church settings say, well, the saints tried to live the law of consecration in the 1830s in Missouri, and they weren’t able to do it. So the Lord gave us tithing as a consolation prize. I think President Hinckley heard that comment as well. He several times said, the law of consecration has not been done away with and still active among the saints. If you go to the temple section of the church’s website, it lays out the covenants that you make in the temple. And it clearly says on that church website, people going through the temple will promise to obey the law of consecration, that they will consecrate and dedicate their lives and what the Lord has given them to build the kingdom of God. Boy, I think what we could do with people with that attitude, we can do anything.

Hank Smith: 00:05:22 I brought that webpage with me, Ken. I’ll read it exactly here. Law of Consecration. It’s listed as the fifth covenant that you make in the temple during the endowment ordinances, which means dedicating our time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed us to the building up of Jesus Christ’s church on the earth. I don’t think that’s been taken away.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:05:47 What has been taken away is the Saints did a financial, an additional financial piece where they would work with the bishop to receive their stewardship back. Today we have private stewardships and we donate to the church. I see the law of tithing and our offerings being part of the law of consecration. We are consecrating that for the good of the building of the kingdom. It’s done a little bit differently than it was in Missouri or in Orville or at various places where we tried to live the law, but it’s still very much in effect. Could I share a story about tithing since I mentioned tithing. It was February, 1986. We had just come out on orders. I was going to be going to grad school to the University of Illinois at Urbana Champagne for computer science. Prior to going back to West Point in ’86.

  00:06:35 I was a Major at the time. We were living in the Washington DC area, which was very expensive. And we were going broke, and we weren’t going broke slowly. We had savings when we arrived. We were leaving there with no savings. Washington DC had just consumed our financial wellbeing. We were getting ready to move. We were getting ready to put our house on the market. It was a cold February night, and about two o’clock in the morning, I heard somebody shooting 22 rifle and 22’s have a really funny ping, just kind of a high pitched ping. I recognized it as a 22 shell. We lived on a corner lot. I woke up, stood on the bed, looked out the window, and the street was quiet. Nobody was out there with rifles shooting 22 shells. But I could hear 22 shells being fired. I did what every respectable husband did at two in the morning when they hear 22’s being shot, I woke my wife up and I said, sweetheart, somebody’s firing a 22 rifle in the street.

  00:07:31 So she said, let me listen. So she listens carefully and of course not a sound The tooth never, never hurts at the dentist’s office. And so she said, you know, you might’ve been dreaming. And so how about if you go back to sleep? So I, I thought, okay, that feels silly. I’ll go back to sleep. 45 minutes later I hear this on my door, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I thought, what? And then two seconds later, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Somebody is just pounding on my front door. So I threw on a robe, went down, opened the door, and my neighbor from across the street, I’m living in Indianapolis at the time, and my neighbor across the street screams at me, are you okay? Is the family all right? And my first thought I must confess was, well, yeah, I was fine till this maniac neighbor knocked on my door at three o’clock and, and woke me up.

  00:08:19 And then he said, you don’t get it. And he grabbed me by the front of my robe and he pulled me out onto the snow and he flipped me around and above my house was about a 10 to 12 foot wall of fire. I was wide awake now. And he said, I’ll call the fire department. You go save your family. Well, I went bounding back into my house, and I bounded up the stairs and I went into our bedroom again and I woke my wife up and I said, I think our house might be on fire. Well, this poor woman, I’ve just woke her up 45 minutes before saying somebody’s firing a 22 round. And now I’m telling her our house might be on fire. And she looks around the room and it’s perfectly quiet in our bedroom. She’s like, oh, I went to the other window just to see, and I opened up.

  00:09:04 We had a big, big window on that side. I opened up that window. I was met with Dante’s Inferno. My neighbor’s house was burning down. What I was seeing was he had built a two story extension on his house that was right to our backyard. We had a corner lot, so we didn’t have much of a backyard. Our backyard was about eight feet. And his house, he had built it. He didn’t build it to code. He’d built it too close. And his house that was burning down was probably about 12 to 15 feet away from us. The extension was really burning down the whole house. Burned down is the bottom line. In fact, it was so hot. It melted their oven door. It’s got to be really hot to melt the glass in an oven. But it melted it into a ball. He later made it into a planter, by the way, but that’s an aside.

  00:09:46 The family got out. We watched the house burn down. Then later that day, about five o’clock as we were sitting down to dinner, there was a knock on the door. This time, a polite knock. It was an insurance agent from the neighbor’s insurance company. He said, I’ve saved the most difficult house for last. You’re the closest to the fire. He said, I’ve done the other neighbors. He said, the neighbors to the west had cracked windows, smoke damage, thousands and thousands of dollars. The rugs are ruined. He said the neighbors further from them had cracked glass, that same kind of thing. He said four houses down the street had significant five figure damage from the fire. And he said, I’ve saved you guys to last because you’re the closest. And I said, well, I’ve actually done an inventory of my home and a survey of my home.

  00:10:32 I said, I have nothing to claim. And he said, no, no, no, no. He said, it’s really okay. The insurance will cover this. You don’t have to be the hero here. I said, no, I have nothing to claim. And so I took him around to the back. There was a wood fence between my home and the neighbor that burned down. The paint had peeled off that fence. I had plastic siding on my house. It was not bubbled. It was not scorched. None of my windows were cracked and there was no smoke damage in my home. And the insurance agent was just astounded. He said, this is impossible. He said, you’re the closest to the fire. You should have, he said, you should have significant damage. That night as we knelt down for couple’s prayer, just before we started to pray, I just was hit with the strongest impression.

  00:11:26 And I told my sweetheart, I said, before we pray, I just got to tell you. I said, I just got the strongest impression from the Holy Ghost. And she said, oh, I did too. And I said, well, you go first And she said, the Lord just let me know that we were blessed today because we pay tithing. Because I’ll tell you, if our home had been damaged, we wouldn’t have been able to sell it. If we wouldn’t have been able to sell it, we would’ve gone bankrupt. The Lord took care of us. I will tell everyone, for the Alford home, that when I get a dollar, the first dime goes to tithing. Don’t know if that’ll happen in every case, but I know for that day in February of 1986 when the Alfords really needed a miracle, God gave us a miracle. I will just tell you tithing’s a real thing.

Hank Smith: 00:12:12 I love it. Consecration.

John Bytheway: 00:12:15 I might mention that to the Lord when I get to the other side. Because we had a fire. We were paying tithing. In fact, I was the Bishop. No, I better be very careful because we were extremely blessed. A good Samaritan. We still don’t know who it was from some apartment buildings over our back fence called the fire department. We don’t even know who to thank. I think they were there in six minutes and put it out in four. Something like that. Amazing. What a blessing that was. We got new carpet. My father-in-law goes, this is going to be a real challenge for three day kitchen and bath. And I’m like, too soon. Too soon. Too soon. You know what this made me think of, Hank? When you read that law of consecration, it’s really an all in thing, isn’t it? It’s not, you know, give what you can. It’s everything.

Hank Smith: 00:13:12 Under covenant.

John Bytheway: 00:13:14 Yeah. We talked about, oh ye that embark in the service of God, way back in section four, the idea that it’s impossible to sort of embark, it’s impossible to kind of get on an airplane because if the airplane leaves, this can cause great physical discomfort. If you just kind of got on the plane, or in the car or on the train. It’s this are you in? It’s a both feet in type of thing. Consecration.

Hank Smith: 00:13:41 Yeah, I like that you said that the Lord doesn’t want a piece. He wants, bring me everything.

John Bytheway: 00:13:48 CS Lewis would say that, right? I want all of you.

Hank Smith: 00:13:52 And I want to remodel you.

John Bytheway: 00:13:54 Yeah, that’s right. That’s what he said. I’m going to tear down the whole place.

Hank Smith: 00:13:58 Yeah. For you, he’s going to burn down the whole place John.

John Bytheway: 00:14:01 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 00:14:03 Ken, let me ask you something you see in the next few verses. The Lord talks about those who pass away and weeping for the loss of them that die. How those that die in me shall not taste of death. It shall be sweet unto them. You’re in a position here to help our listeners who are suffering in grief. It’s not something that we’ve addressed as often as perhaps we should have. What can we say to those who have had a loss like you’ve had? And for those who don’t know, this isn’t Ken’s first serious, serious loss in his family, he’s lost a son-in-law too young, just like his wife. So Ken, if someone is listening to the podcast today and they’re saying, I don’t know if I’ll ever get through this grief. How do I do this?

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:14:57 Griefs real. That’s one thing I’ve learned. As you mentioned, my oldest daughter’s husband died of leukemia, a very rare form of leukemia during the pandemic. And then my sweetheart died in July of 2022. And then my father passed in, October of 2023. So I was kind of braced for 2024 waiting to see who was going to pass. No one did. So we broke the chain. That grief is real and mourning is real. I’ve learned, like when I was reading Cheryl Lee’s journal. When grief turns on the tap, you’re not holding it back. You’ll lose. I really appreciate verse 45 of section 42. It says, thou shalt live together in love insomuch that thou shalt weep for the loss of them that die. It’s okay to mourn. When Cheryl Lee passed, I should note, she had neuroendocrin cancer for 12 and a half years.

  00:15:58 When she was diagnosed in 2009, they gave her a five year life expectancy. She was willing to be very aggressive on her medical treatment. And the Lord gave us another seven and a half years beyond what they said she should have. I really shouldn’t complain. Grief and mourning are very real. President Holland lost his sweet Pat. In conference of April 2024, he gave a tribute to her that I think is just beautiful. It just applies to my sweetheart. But I found it personally comforting to hear the president of the quorum of the 12 saying these things over the pulpit. He began by saying, I have learned some lessons that with the Lord’s help I wish to share with you today. That will make this a very personal talk. And I would note that there are lessons that I have learned about life that I couldn’t have learned if Cheryl Lee was still here.

  00:16:55 They’ve been really painful lessons, but one of them is I now fully appreciate everything she did for me. I think that’s kind of hard to do when they’re still here. I appreciated and loved her to death. I appreciate her so much more now she’s gone. President Holland said this. He said, the most personal and painful of all these experiences has been the passing of my beloved wife, Pat. She was the greatest woman I have ever known. A perfect wife and mother to say nothing of her purity, her gift of expression, her spirituality. She was a complete daughter of God, an exemplary woman of Christ. I was the most fortunate of men. In his case he said 60 years. And in my case, I would say 43 years of my life with her, should I prove worthy our sealing means I can spend eternity with her.

  00:17:43 And President Nelson, soon after he became an apostle, he said in 1992, this is before his sweetheart passed, Dantzel. But he said this, we mourn for those loved and lost. Mourning is one of the deepest expressions of pure love. And I would just say amen to that. I have learned that is the case. And then he said, it’s a natural response in complete accord with divine commandment. And then he quoted section 42 verse 45. And then President Nelson said this, I just love the way he has a way of encapsulating truth, just so, so, so well. He said, we can’t fully appreciate joyful reunions later without tearful separations. Now, the only way to take sorrow out of death is to take love out of life. And I would say amen. Grief is a real thing for those who are mourning. I think just the biggest comforting thing is God knows. I’ll just share one personal thing if I could. When Cheryl Lee passed, it was the day before her funeral. And I woke up and was just overwhelmed at just the loss. And I just felt, I just felt adrift and hopeless.

  00:19:06 And I know the gospel. I have a testimony in it. I know we’d see each other again, but oh, I just missed her so bad. And I remember praying, lying in bed saying, heavenly Father, I’m not sure I can do this. And amen did not pass my lips before I felt as if I received just this massive hug from the Holy Ghost. It was the deepest feeling of comfort I have ever felt in my life. And the Holy Ghost said, this is going to be hard, but it’s going to be okay and you’ll be together again. And I fell back asleep immediately. And when I woke up, it was time to move on. And so I just will tell you, God knows. He understands mourning. Thank heavens for the gospel of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. So you’ve set a record. You’ve got me tear up twice in this episode.

Hank Smith: 00:20:13 I have a wonderful friend, Audrey Sorensen, married to Jake Sorensen, who’s part of the family that supports our show. She sent me a talk recently. It’s called, If Thou Endure It Well, 1984 Marvin J. Ashton. Sometimes going backwards and listening to talks is almost as fun as getting a new one because it’s new to you. This one was new to me and I read through it, it shares wonderful, just some wonderful examples of those who endure. And he says, it’s different than putting up with. Ken you’re not just putting up with this. I’ve seen you over the last almost three years. I’ve seen you flourish and thrive. You know, you’ve shaken my hand in the hallway with a big smile. And that’s not putting up with. This is enduring it. Well, I want to read a paragraph from this talk. This is towards the end.

  00:21:11 When heartache, tragedy, disappointment, injury, fame, or excessive prosperity become part of our lives, our challenges and responsibilities will be to endure them. Well, God will assist us in our quest to conquer, triumph and continue if we humbly rededicate ourselves to the meaningful declaration; We have endured many things and hope to be able to endure all things. He talks about the Savior and one of his marks of greatness is his endurance. During his earthly sojourn, he endured well as he suffered agony and rejection in their deepest forms. I bear my witness that God will help us to endure as we put forth the effort to live his teachings, seek his guidance, and keep his commandments.

John Bytheway: 00:22:12 Speaking of Elder Holland, he said once that Alma’s declaration at the Waters of Mormon is the most complete scriptural list of what the newly baptized commit to do and be. And you all know that list, but one of them is to mourn with them that mourn. I always think about Jesus before he raised Lazarus in that famous shortest scripture, Jesus wept. Well he knew he was about to raise Lazarus. Mourning is a soul expanding thing. I don’t really want my soul expanded that way. I love what you said, Ken. I can’t remember Hank, was it someone we had on that lost a child and had pled with the Lord for relief? And the Lord said, I could take away the pain, but I’d have to take away the love too. It was a very interesting thought that we’re experiencing an opposition in all things. But the reunion will be so wonderful as wonderful as it is painful now perhaps.

Hank Smith: 00:23:13 I like that John. Mourn with those that mourn doesn’t mean cheer up those that mourn or give a pep talk to those who mourned. Right?

John Bytheway: 00:23:21 Right.

Hank Smith: 00:23:21 I’m sure Ken, there were some helpful things said and maybe some unhelpful.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:23:25 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 00:23:26 Things said.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:23:26 Right. Absolutely. We don’t handle grief well in our culture.

John Bytheway: 00:23:31 No. And this, I always go back to Job. His friends at first were so good because they just sat with him and they didn’t try to explain God’s actions. They just sat with him.

Hank Smith: 00:23:46 But then it all goes south, right when they

John Bytheway: 00:23:48 then it goes south when they, well maybe God’s doing this. Or maybe it’s you.

Hank Smith: 00:23:51 Now Ken, like you said before, there’s so many verses here. Are there any others that we should…

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:24:00 Oh, this section we, you could do numerous episodes on section 42. Just a couple of principles and things along the way here. Verse 40 tells us, thou shalt not be proud in thy heart. That’s a tough one. Especially today. Pride is making a resurgence in some new and interesting ways with the internet and influencers and TikTok and other things. Verse 41, the Lord tells us, let all things be done in cleanliness before me. I think of that phrase that even appears in the Doctrine & Covenants, but it appears in the Bible as well, that, be clean ye that bear the vessels of the Lord. We have an opportunity and a responsibility to keep ourselves as it says in Section 59, unspotted from the things of the world. Boy, if you wrestle with the pigs, you’re going to get dirty. We’re in the world, but we don’t have to become unclean.

  00:24:59 Also at verse 42, I just, this is a really important part of the law of consecration. The Lord just says it very simply says, thou shalt not be idle. And in fact, in their, they used to have accountability interviews, in Missouri. John Whitmer tells us that they kicked out the loafers and the idlers, those that would not work in Zion. Elder Hillam gave a talk in, you have to go back to November, 1997. But this comment just stuck with me. He says, during the second World War when gasoline was in short supply and rationed, he said, I remember signs saying, is this trip necessary today? We might ask ourselves, before we turn on a video game or the television or the computer or access the many programs available, is this trip necessary? Perhaps every person who is listening might also ask, is the information I am receiving from this tool of learning edifying and adding truth to my life?

  00:26:00 Are the hours I am investing an effective use of my valuable time? Does this computer game assist me in fulfilling my responsibilities and goals? If the answer is not a resounding yes, then he said, then we should have the courage and determination to click the off button and direct our lives to more important tasks. That was great counsel when it was given in 1997, I think it’s just as valuable or even more so today. We have more things to click on and we now have things in our pockets that allow us to click. I think that’s just a great question. Is this trip necessary? Don’t be idle. You just get one go at life. This isn’t a dress rehearsal and you’re going to get it right the next time. This is for record every day.

Hank Smith: 00:26:46 Ken, I like that. Tell me what the army taught you about being idle.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:26:50 Thou shalt not. The army used to have a commercial. We do more before 9:00 AM than most people do all day. That was one of my favorite commercials. One thing the army taught me is to be appreciative and to respect those that are placed in authority over you. We don’t have generals and commanders in the gospel, but we have prophets and apostles and stake presidents and bishops, unlike the army which uses a selection process to put those people there, the Lord puts those people there. We owe them even greater respect. And plus, when you do it, the thing that’s so magic about the gospel is you do everything the Lord asks and then he blesses you even more. As King Benjamin says, you can never get out of, this is a wonderful debt cycle to be in, but you can never get out of this debt cycle. As soon as you do, everything that the Lord blessed you with, he’ll bless you more and then you’re just deeper in debt. What a fun cycle to be in.

Hank Smith: 00:27:53 Ken I’ve noticed it says, thou shalt not be idle. You’re not going to eat the the bread or wear the garments of the worker if you’re not working. Later he says verse 54, thou shalt not take thy brother’s garment. Pay for that which thou shalt receive of thy brother. So Ken, sometimes my students ask me, what’s the difference between the law of consecration and say, communism, you’re a world history expert, a war expert, and a church history expert. I think you’re the perfect person to ask.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:28:23 Well, I don’t know if I’m an expert in those things, but I’m old so maybe, maybe that counts. There’s a great statement from Bishop Victor L. Brown. He addressed this head on, as did David O. McKay, as have many prophets and apostles. But Bishop Brown, this is in the the seventies, it’s been addressed since then, but I just think this is a great statement. He said, some have erroneously thought that consecration resembled either communism or socialism. And he just simply says, this is incorrect. The results of socialism and communism are far different from the results of living the law of consecration. And the big difference that I teach my students is socialism, communism are based on compulsion. The law of consecration is based on agency. No one is forced to live that law. Another fundamental difference is that in communism and socialism, the state is the owner. In the law of consecration, you are a steward.

  00:29:20 But while you are the steward, you are the legal recognized owner or steward of the property and things that have been placed in your hand. President J. Reuben Clark, a member of the first presidency said that the basic, basic concept, he said, when you boil the law of consecration down to the basic, he said the the fundamental idea of the law of consecration is that everything belongs to the Lord. Think about it. He said, when you die, you’d leave everything. Anyway, it was the Lord’s to begin with. And you are a steward for a little while. But when you die, I mean if Jeff Bezos were to die today and I were to die today, we would both leave the same percentage of our world of goods. The answer’s a hundred percent. The basic idea, if you keep that in mind, that Christ owns everything the scriptures tell us, even the breath that we take is because of Christ.

  00:30:19 The light that we see that allows us to grow food that allows us to grow, it comes from Christ. The planet on which we live is because of Christ. Second Nephi tells us everything. So if you keep that fundamental idea, then I’m entrusted with some things. If we’re fully living even that financial piece of the law of consecration, but I’m just the steward. I’m just the temporary caretaker of those things. It belongs to Christ. And my job is to magnify it, to use it correctly, to build the kingdom. That is not the purpose of communism. The purpose of communism is to sustain the state and suppress the people. On the surface I can see how sometimes people might draw that conclusion. They are worlds apart. One works and one doesn’t. It’s always the Lords that works.

Hank Smith: 00:31:16 It reminds me, do you remember John? The Lord says to Martin Harris, thou shalt not covet thine own property. You’re like, wait, what? It’s not his. And I think he’s reminding him, I’m just asking for a farm that I gave you. It’s interesting. It’s not a sacrifice when you say it like that. When you think of it like that.

John Bytheway: 00:31:38 Thank you for talking about that Thou shalt not be idle. The footnotes on verse 42. There are, there’s three more times in the Doctrine & Covenants section 60, section 68, and section 75. Now there’s one in the Bible that I just love this. Now we know what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah. This is Ezekiel 16:49. Listen to this list. Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom. And then it lists, here’s why what happened to Sodom happened: pride, fullness of bread, which sounds like high standard of living next, an abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters. Neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. Doesn’t that hit everything we just hit? Isn’t that an interesting verse? Ezekiel 16:49, pride, fullness of bread and abundance of idleness.

Hank Smith: 00:32:38 Yep.

John Bytheway: 00:32:38 And she didn’t strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And I think wow, that’s describing a cycle, a pride cycle. But I’ve always liked that verse because you know, we have an abundance of idleness.

Hank Smith: 00:32:52 Yeah, I was going to say I have 4 teen boys. I’m going to put that in vinyl in the kitchen. Thou shalt not be idle. Right.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:33:01 On that note, go back to verse 30. How does the Lord introduce the law of consecration? He says, behold thou will remember the poor.

John Bytheway: 00:33:10 Yeah, it’s always on the Lord’s mind.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:33:13 And then he says, as he’s ending this bit about the introduction of the law of consecration in verse 38, he says, for inasmuch as you do it unto the least of these, you know how that verse is going to end. You do it unto me. He starts with the poor and he ends with the poor. There can be lots of different ways to be poor, but the law of consecration has the ability to just fix all the challenges.

John Bytheway: 00:33:39 And he’s giving this law to the church right here too. This is the law given to this brand new church and that he mentions taking care of the poor there still today.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:33:50 And honestly by our standards, all of them are poor.

Hank Smith: 00:33:53 Yeah.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:33:55 Except maybe Newel K. Whitney and Martin Harris. Teaser. Martin’s going to give all his to the storehouse. Look at verse 61. This is a great verse. And imagine being in that group of those 12 elders with Joseph and have this come from the Lord. What have they been doing? They’ve been asking questions. And then the Lord just takes time to say, if thou shalt ask, thou shalt receive, revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge. Why? That thou mayest know the mysteries, you know, things that are mysteries to the world, but things that the Holy Ghost can reveal, and foreshadowing President Nelson’s recent admonitions, it’s the peaceable things that bring joy, that which bringeth life eternal.

Hank Smith: 00:34:45 Ken, I’ve noticed in the Doctrine & Covenants that you have a lot of verses that are, oh that’s good, that’s good, that’s good. And then every once in a while there’s a vista in a verse. There’s a oh wow moment And that seems to be one where you’re going like, oh wow, that’s the pen of heaven.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:35:03 Don’t you notice though, as you go through life that your vista moments, as you call them, the scriptures that really kind of just nail you right between the eyes that they change as you change. I love reading the scriptures when I find a verse that I am just confident it was not there the last time I read that section. This is such a cool verse. I could not have missed that verse, but yet it’s like it’s brand new. And I know it’s not the verse that changed. I know that you know, there’s no angel sneaking extra verses into my Doctrine & Covenants. But I’ve changed. And I have to tell you, since my sweetheart has passed, I see many things just through a little bit different eyes. I’ll also tell you, I hear many of the hymns differently now too. Some of the wording in the hymns that I would just sing before but not really think about now. Boy it just nails me and it’ll bring me to tears. Life’s a fun journey and it’s cool that there’s these Easter eggs hidden along the trail that we get to find and so many of them are in the scriptures. And then I think Joseph is foreshadowing Elder Kearon in verse 69 when he says, lift up your hearts and rejoice. Doesn’t that sound like we are the church of joy?

John Bytheway: 00:36:20 Yeah. And that’s one of the even so amen verses. Yeah.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:36:25 Yeah. That ends the answer to that question set.

Hank Smith: 00:36:28 The Lord’s revelations are often so positive. He could be pretty negative on this going, oh you guys are struggling. But he usually says, okay, we’re struggling. Here’s some things. And by the way, rejoice.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:36:42 What are some of the last words of Christ as they’re leaving the last supper?

Hank Smith: 00:36:46 Be of good cheer.

John Bytheway: 00:36:46 I am with thee.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:36:47 He’s about to go and do the hardest thing that’s ever been done in the history of the universe. And his words to his apostles are be of good cheer, be of good cheer. Even now be of good cheer for I have overcome the world. That is such an overwhelming victory that even now we can be of good cheer even now. We should all be of good cheer. This is going to be awful and harder than I even know. We should be of good cheer.

John Bytheway: 00:37:17 These people have pulled up roots and left from wherever they are now they’re in Ohio. I’m glad they got a verse 61 in there.

Hank Smith: 00:37:25 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:37:27 To say this was worth the trip. Did you hear that?

Hank Smith: 00:37:31 It was worth the price of admission? Yeah.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:37:35 And then I would just send you to verse 78. That just kind of sums up being a church member. And again, every person who belongs to this Church of Christ shall observe to keep all the commandments and covenants of the church. That just makes it simple, doesn’t it?

Hank Smith: 00:37:52 We do have two other sections in this lesson. Did you want to take a look at these?

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:37:56 To look at 43 in the fullest light, you have to go back to section 28 because section 28 is when Joseph is challenged by Hiram Page. Because Joseph is teaching, we’re a new church, everybody can receive revelation. Hiram Page says, how cool is that? Joseph is using a seer stone with the Book of Mormon, I have a seer stone, I’m going to inquire. He connects with a revelatory source. Unfortunately he connects with the wrong side of the equation. They’re recorded. The church has this little crisis where many members in the church, including Oliver Cowdery at one point, want to follow Hiram’s revelations because they’re probably more fun and easier to follow. They get burned so we don’t know what they are. As a historian, I wish we’d saved them so I could look at them, but they’re burned and his seer stone is crushed to dust. But the Lord teaches Joseph in section 28 how to handle that.

  00:38:53 And he teaches the church, it’s Joseph, it’s not anybody else. Hiram Page gets fixed because the Lord tells Joseph after he fixes Oliver to have Oliver go fix Hiram Page because they’re brothers-in-law, they married two of the Whitmer sisters. Oliver does that quietly. And I would note back in section 42 a verse we didn’t mention is in verse 88 it says, if you’ve got an offense with somebody, solve it privately. Kind of the same counsel that the Lord gave to Joseph for Oliver to fix Hiram. Well that’s a challenge in New York. So now let’s fast forward to section 43. Satan is nothing if not persistent and clever in New York. He tried, let’s have a man get false revelations and Joseph is able to put that down. So in Kirtland he says, let’s have a woman claim to be a prophetess. So we’ll just take the same play, but we’ll twist the main character a little bit.

  00:39:48 And we get a report out of Painesville from the Painesville Telegraph reporting that there’s a prophetess in Kirtland who is trying to basically take over and lead the church. This time though, Joseph has seen this movie, he goes to the Lord and the Lord says, look, you’re the guy and he says, I give you this, that you won’t be deceived. You may know that they, the pretenders to the throne are not of me. That’s verse six. And then he says in verse seven, I say unto you that he that is ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before. Now normally in the scriptures when we talk about the gate, it’s baptism. But that is not the case here in section 43. Here the gate means the authorized way that we appoint leaders in the church.

  00:40:40 He’s saying we have a way of doing that. And members, you know there’s common consent that you will have an opportunity to support that there’s not going to be a surprise. You’re not ever going to show up to church one week. And there’s been a coup in your ward and the bishop has been overthrown and Brother Smedlap has installed himself as bishop. That’s never going to happen. That is not entering through the gate. The Lord says, we enter through the gate, the woman’s name was Hubbell. Laura Hubbell. She’s not authorized to do this. She didn’t come in through the gate. She came in through the side window. And that’s not how we operate in this church. She’s just dismissed. And then she leaves Kirtland. Joseph seeing this challenge to his authority the second time, even though it’s a little bit different, he knows exactly how to handle it and just dismisses it.

  00:41:31 I think that’s an important message that Joseph is the guy. As it says in verse four, Joseph has this gift and if it’s taken from him, if he were to goof up, and I think we don’t recognize that enough that Joseph’s told many times, boy, this isn’t a guarantee. You have to stay righteous and worthy. And if you do goof up in verse four, he says, you’re only going to have power to appoint your successor but you haven’t goofed up. So now let’s dismiss this out of hand. And I think section 43 has that really good message that it’s the prophet, because sometimes even today we hear various versions of that. The prophet’s too old, the prophet’s this, the prophet’s that. But he’s still the prophet and he’s put there by the Lord and he’s released by the Lord.

Hank Smith: 00:42:15 That’s excellent. How many times have we run this same movie?

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:42:19 When Satan gets a game plan, he’ll run every permutation of it he can find. He’s nothing if not persistent.

Hank Smith: 00:42:26 We do see some spiritual casualties along the way.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:42:28 Yeah. One of the recent ways we have heard that is, oh, I follow Jesus. I don’t follow the prophets and apostles. And there’s a really wonderful BYU devotional that just points out it’s called Why a Church? It’s by Elder Hamilton. And he gave it at BYU a year or two ago. He just basically says that’s impossible because it’s Christ who put the prophet in place and they’re singing from the same hymn book.

Hank Smith: 00:42:56 Yeah I like that. If you reject the Lord’s prophet, you reject the Lord. It is a package deal.

John Bytheway: 00:43:04 I just love that they’re learning the orderliness of things. They’re learning the way that keys work. I like that verse. We didn’t touch on it. It’s not just anybody goes out to preach, it’s them that are ordained by the church and it’s known to them in the church and there’s a really nice order to it. That’s the way the Lord would do it. There’s a lot of people here, very enthusiastic, excited, who have shown up and now they’re learning that there’s a structure and an order or an, oh Hank one of your favorite words. There’s boundaries.

Hank Smith: 00:43:34 There’s boundaries. And we have the benefit, Ken of 195 years of church.

John Bytheway: 00:43:39 Yeah, we’ve been doing this for a long time now.

Hank Smith: 00:43:40 We’re still in year one.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:43:42 I think we forget that everybody’s new at this and everybody is bringing in their previous church experience. There’s still so much that the saints don’t know. It’s going to be over 10 years until it’s canonized that the Father has a body of flesh and bones. Such a basic doctrine. But that’s more than a decade in their future. Verse eight is wonderful. It says, I give unto you a commandment that when you assemble together, boy, Latter-day Saints like to assemble, don’t we? He tells us what to do when we assemble though that you instruct and edify each other, that you may know how to act and direct my church and how to act upon the points of my law and commandments, which I have given at this point. They have the law. And now he says, okay, now teach each other, edify each other. You know edifice, build up, build each other up.

  00:44:36 Part of becoming a saint is lifting others in the process. You lift yourself and he says in verse nine, you’ll become instructed in my law of my church and be sanctified. To be sanctified is to become like Christ. You’ll bind yourself to me to act in holiness before me. Christ is holy. And so if we become sanctified, if we become holy, we become like Christ. He tells us in verse 11, sanctify yourself. So twice after verse nine there. But verse 12 is one I really like. This was a favorite verse of President Faust who was in the first presidency with President Hinckley. And President Faust and President Hinckley had been friends for decades. They knew each other as young men. President Faust, every time he talked about President Hinckley, you could just see the love President Faust had for that man. He gives a great talk about verse 12.

  00:45:27 In section 43. He says, and if you desire the glories of the kingdom, appoint ye my servant Joseph Smith Jr. Here’s the key, and uphold him before me by the prayer of faith. But then President Faust went on to explain brothers and sisters, we are to pray for the leaders of the church. And he said, I’m now a member of the first presidency. And he said, we feel your prayers. The Lord lets us feel your prayers. And he said, please know how much we appreciate your upholding us through that prayer of faith. And then he went on to bear testimony of President Hinckley being the prophet at the time. And he says, and I want you to know that I uphold him by the prayer of faith every day. Great testimony. And just a reminder how cool it is to have a prophet.

Hank Smith: 00:46:11 Yeah. I really appreciate that. When we’re together, instruct and edify. Because hopefully we’re getting the instruct part down. I’m going to teach my Sunday school class. I’m going to teach Elders Quorum. I’m going to teach Relief Society and edify. So what would you both say when I leave my lesson, what’s my hope? What does edifying look like? Everybody walks away feeling built, feeling better. How do I teach in a way that edifies and doesn’t? What’s the opposite? De-edify? Un-edify?

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:46:49 Deconstruct.

Hank Smith: 00:46:50 Deconstruct. Yeah. Throw things down. Hurt people.

John Bytheway: 00:46:54 There’s a thing that I’m going to do better in my life in this area. Maybe that’s edifying perhaps.

Hank Smith: 00:47:00 How to act on my revelations. Yeah.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:47:04 If students and the teacher leave the classroom with a little firmer commitment to keep the commandments.

  00:47:12 Verse 15, talking about teaching, it says you’re not sent forth to be taught but to teach the children of men. I remember several times being a missionary in England that we would tract up various vicars or folks from the Church of England and all they wanted to do was talk to us, tell us things that they wanted to share. We had to gently let them know that well, our purpose here is X and we’re happy to do that and we’re happy to have a conversation. But here’s the the main purpose and a lot of times we get escorted to the door at that point.

Hank Smith: 00:47:50 I like that you’re not sent forth to be taught but to teach. So be confident in your message.

John Bytheway: 00:47:56 Do you remember back when we were learning about Hiram and it was a seek not to declare my word, but first to obtain it. And then later on he’s told, okay, now. Now go declare it. Teach the children of men the things which I have put into your hands by the power of my Spirit. Now you know what to teach.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:48:17 And here’s how you’re to be taught in verse 16. You are to be taught by me. You’re to be taught from on high. For an additional time in this section, this is what at least the third time the Lord has said, sanctify yourselves. Become like Christ. Take him as your exemplar and ye shall be endowed with power. And he says in verse 19, gird up your loins. And that’s just scripture talk for get to work.

Hank Smith: 00:48:39 Yeah. Let’s go. Yeah.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:48:43 In verse 20, prepare yourselves. You’re going to be required to do things. If you’re prepared, section 38, you don’t have any reason to fear. Be prepared.

John Bytheway: 00:48:53 Sometimes people struggle with the idea of is everything that’s happening the will of God? Or do we have free will or does it just appear that we have free will? I mean there are theological debates about this, right? But I love verse 24 ye nations of the earth. It’s my will, have gathered you together as a hen gather with her chickens under her wings. But ye would not. His will is to gather us. You don’t want to be gathered. For me, that’s a text that says, yeah, we have free will and he wants to gather us. But some of us are refusing to get gathered. Is that good English?

Hank Smith: 00:49:35 To get gathered.

John Bytheway: 00:49:36 We’re refusing to get gathered.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:49:39 Ain’t been never get gathered.

John Bytheway: 00:49:40 Or you could put it that way.

Hank Smith: 00:49:45 I like that.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:49:46 So from that introduction that John just read, look at verse 25 now. And he says, look, you don’t want to be gathered, but here’s all the different ways I’ve tried to get your attention. Every teacher understands trying to get a student’s attention. And the Lord says, okay, let me just give you a little list here. Here’s how I’ve tried to get your attention and here’s how I’m going to try to get your attention. How often. So he’s done it multiple times. How often I have called upon you by the mouth of my servants, by the ministering of angels, by my own voice. And then he says, for those that are kind of the slow learners, by the voice of lightnings, by the voice of thunderings, by the voice of tempests, by the voice of earthquakes and great hailstorms. And by the voice of famines and pestilence of every kind. And by the great sound of a trump and by the voice of judgment and by the voice of mercy all the day long and by the voice of glory and honor and the riches of eternal life and would have saved you with an everlasting salvation. But ye would not. You guys are really slow learners sometimes. I’ve used every trick in the book, every arrow in my quiver. And you bozos have got your ears stuffed with cotton.

John Bytheway: 00:51:06 Well why didn’t you call me? I did by the voice of by my mouth, by my servants, by the angels, by the thunderings. By the lightnings. And I like that.

Hank Smith: 00:51:15 I tried texting you, I tried calling you. I tried Facebook messenger, I tried Snapchat, I tried Instagram I tried every avenue there is to get to you. You could just mark all those voices all the ways I have tried to get your attention.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:51:33 Yeah, he gets some people’s attention with earthquakes and pestilence or pandemics.

Hank Smith: 00:51:38 Do you guys remember when Mormon goes berserk in Helaman chapter 12 talking about human beings And he says,

John Bytheway: 00:51:46 Yeah. He’s in the middle of abridging and he is like, I’ve just got to take a second here.

Hank Smith: 00:51:51 I’ve got to stop.

John Bytheway: 00:51:53 I’ve got to vent.

Hank Smith: 00:51:54 I just let you have it. He does how false, how unsteady the hearts of the children of men. He’s like, these guys are so brilliant. At the very time God prospers them. That’s when they forget him. And then this is a scary verse. And thus we see, this is Helaman 12:3. That unless the Lord visits his people with afflictions, death, terror, famine, and pestilence, they won’t remember him. Oh, how foolish. We joke around about it. But still, how many of us would go, yeah, why don’t I listen, why don’t I sit up and pay attention?

John Bytheway: 00:52:32 At the end of verse 25. And would have saved you with an everlasting salvation. But ye would not. It’s like, you refuse to be saved. It seems like such a no brainer when you’re in the right frame of mind. Yeah, why wouldn’t I want everything the Lord is promising me here.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:52:55 Especially when he promised you everything he has. Welcome to mortality

Hank Smith: 00:53:00 Yeah.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:53:00 Look at verse 34. He starts the section by saying, hearken, listen to what I’m going to tell you. Listen and obey. And he ends the section by saying, hearken to these words, please listen and obey. because he says, the world generally isn’t listening. He’s talking to Latter-day Saints, please hearken, please listen and obey. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I know what I’m talking about. The Savior of the world. Treasure these things up in your hearts and I love this phrase. And let the solemnities of eternity rest upon your minds. Be still and know that I am God. And then the next closing verse, be sober. This is serious stuff, folks. And keep all my commandments. One last appeal. And then we see the last even so amen that we’ve seen in section 42 here.

Hank Smith: 00:53:55 You know, sometimes the solemnities of eternity don’t feel as exciting as the latest movie or the next ball game, but I’ve noticed one has the lasting power to bring you joy, and the other one comes and goes pretty quick, especially if your favorite team loses by 30.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:54:18 Section 44 is given also in February of 1831. This is a busy month for revelation here. It’s basically a call for a conference. The idea of semi-annual conference and annual conferences is not really well set yet. And Joseph, I think has to be reminded to have the people assemble for conference first. He says in verse one, it’s expedient, it’s important. You need to gather. There’s just power in gathering where two or three or the whole church is gathered together. There’s just power. But then in verse two he says, and it’ll come to pass. It’s inasmuch as they’re faithful and exercise faith in me, I will pour out my Spirit upon them in the day that they assemble themselves together. Isn’t that a great way to describe General Conference? There’s a quote from President David O. McKay. This is an older quote. This is from 1938.

  00:55:09 He said, reference to the Doctrine & Covenants, talking about section 44. He said it’ll disclose that there are four principal purposes of holding conferences as the church. And then he lists what those four purposes were. And this is 1938. See how many of these purposes are true today? First to transact current church business. Absolutely. We do that. Second, to hear reports in general church statistics, they often come out in conjunction with conference today. So they don’t take conference time. They don’t read the number of babies born like they used to from the pulpit or from a 1925 church report I have on conference. They actually listed the number of members divorced during 1924, happened to be 269 Okay? They don’t do that anymore, but we still hear reports and statistics. Third, to approve those names which I the Lord have appointed and we absolutely do that. And fourth, to worship the Lord in sincerity and reverence and to give and receive encouragement, exhortation and instruction. President McKay just nailed it. Conference does all of those things and I would suggest many more. I just found that was fun to find things from almost 90 years ago showing the church is still doing those things for the members of today. Don’t you just always feel buoyed up during General Conference? I mean, General Conference is like a shot of adrenaline. It’s good. It’s twice a year.

Hank Smith: 00:56:40 It is. Latter-day Saints have a few extra holidays where we get excited about what is going to be said. Could this talk be a talk that I remember for the rest of my life? Thanks, Ken.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 00:56:52 These are just such, such wonderful sections. The phrase, we’ve seen it in several of the sections. We saw it in section 38 where the Lord says, if you’ll do the things I’m asking, I will endow you with power. I just got curious a couple years ago, and I went through and just looked for instances from general authorities, prophets, and apostles of what the many meanings of that phrase. I know it has lots of meanings and I know it helped the saints be early missionaries and do those kind of things. But several apostles and prophets have said, and they’ve tied it directly to the temple today. They’ve said, as we attend the temple, we can be endowed with power. And then many, many general authorities have said some of the ways that we are endowed with powers, let me just share some of those quotes, endowed with power.

  00:57:45 It’s the power of enlightenment, of testimony and of understanding. That’s Elder Haight. It’s the power to thwart the forces of evil. That’s President Benson. It’s power which enables us to use our gifts and capabilities with greater intelligence and increased effectiveness. That’s Elder Haight. It’s the power to overcome the sins of the world and stand in holy places. That’s Elder Glenn Pace. It’s greater powers that we might be better qualified to teach. That’s President Joseph Fielding Smith. It’s power with which to strengthen our earthly families. That’s Elder Theodore Burton. It’s a promised personal revelation that may bless our life with power, knowledge, light, beauty, and truth on high. That’s Elder Haight. President Hinckley said it this way. The need occasionally to leave the noise and tumult of the world and step inside the walls of a sacred house of God. And there we can feel his Spirit in an environment of holiness and peace. Isn’t it just wonderful to step inside the temple and take your worldly backpack off and leave it at the door? And for that time in the temple, you don’t have to worry about bills and mowing the lawn and all the other things of mortality and you get to concentrate and set your sights a little bit higher.

Hank Smith: 00:59:04 Ken, this has just been fantastic. One, you’ve taught us a lot and then you’ve let us in on your personal feelings, what you’ve been through the last few years, and it has been a special experience and I’ve known you for a long time, 15 years at least. When I first came to BYU, you were very kind and I knew who you were because we have a shared familial connection in my sister-in-law, Lisa Savage. She’s married to Justin Savage up there in North Salt Lake. She is your cousin. So when I came to BYU I knew who you were because of Lisa and you were so kind and you’ve been kind every day since. Knowing a little bit of your career in the military and then in church history, and then a doctorate degree in computer science then all sorts of personal experiences including tragedy. If someone is sitting here thinking, I just don’t know if this is what it claims to be. I don’t know if Joseph Smith is a prophet or if this is the Lord’s church. Who has some experience. Tell us what you would say to someone with those thoughts, those questions.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 01:00:12 Yeah. This is always the thousand dollar question. I would love to be able to take my testimony and let them borrow it for just a minute and they need to give it back, but I would love to be able to let them see what it feels like. I can share with absolute confidence that I know these things are true. That’s one thing that losing my sweetheart has also done. The Lord has blessed me with just an extra measure of testimony. I’ve always believed the roots are deeper. Now, I guess I would also just remind them that there is no way to transplant it. This is an individual journey between you and the Lord. It hinges on desire. Moroni spells it out accurately. If you really want to know, you’ll know. I would share my testimony with them. I would let them know. I’m happy to pray with and for them, but ultimately this is their quest.

  01:01:17 I would also just share I love Alma’s statement that everything testifies of God, even the heavens, I don’t know how you look at things and not see God’s hand in it. God’s hand is just everywhere in my view. Even in these crazy mixed up sometimes upside down times that we live in, God’s in charge. There’s nothing that Satan’s going to do where God’s going to one day say, wow, he pulled a fast one on me. I didn’t see that coming. That’s just never going to happen. This is the dispensation where the good men and women win for the first time in history. Again, I wish I could share, but I would encourage them to keep trying and just share my witness. This is it. This is the plan of happiness. This is the Church of Joy. This is the answer to every problem the world has. Every problem any person has, this is, in capital letters The Answer. Christ is the answer every time. I’m so grateful that Heavenly Father has let me see that. You know, you look at Joseph’s age and it’s just the words that come out of Joseph’s young mouth and then you consider he didn’t go to school. I mean…

Hank Smith: 01:02:33 This is something that a man with decades of military experience, a doctorate degree, a grandfather, he can take a look at this and spend hours and hours and hours in it. And it came from who? How old?

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 01:02:51 Yeah. I think a Brigham Young statement, and I’m going to have to paraphrase because I don’t have the quote with me here, but he said, I feel to shout Hallelujah all the day long that I knew Joseph the prophet. And I feel that way. I’m not anxious that it happens soon, but I’m really excited to meet Joseph at some point and just thank him for everything he did and all he put up with. And Doctrine & Covenants is a fun book. You’re not supposed to have favorite books of scripture, but if you could, this one would be mine.

Hank Smith: 01:03:22 I love that.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 01:03:24 It’s for us, there’s no translation involved and all the scriptures are wonderful, but this one you can reach out and almost touch those people. They’re not that far removed from us.

Hank Smith: 01:03:35 Well, Ken, thank you. Thank you for spending your time with us.

Dr. Kenneth Alford: 01:03:38 Oh, thank you. I appreciate being able to spend some time with you two.

Hank Smith: 01:03:41 It’s been fun. We’ve missed you. We haven’t had you in a couple of years and so it’s been a treat to looking forward to having you here and then having you here. John, I know you love the military, so it’s always a treat for you when Ken comes, you can share stories when the record button is off.

John Bytheway: 01:03:58 Yeah. Thanks Ken. I just appreciate it. Hank we did this four years ago and as we have just remarked here, we are looking at it and seeing different things being instructed and edified exactly as it tells us to. So thank you for doing that for us today Ken.

Hank Smith: 01:04:15 We have been instructed and edified just like the Lord asked Ken. I want to finish with something. Earlier we were talking about the second bishop Newel K. Whitney, and you said he turned ideas into money and then he ended up giving all that money. I think the ashery we talked about in the beginning was deeded to the church. As you said that I was just struck in my heart that I knew a Bishop Whitney, his name was Steve Sorensen, Steve. He had that same gift, Ken. He could turn ideas into money and majesty. I mean, he could take an idea and and run with it, and then giving that money. I thought in our little shout out to him, which we do every time, I’d give him that compliment that Steve Sorensen, our founder, he’s a man unto Newel K Whitney. I bet they get along well.

  01:05:13 We want to thank our executive producer Shannon Sorensen, who’s not a whit behind her husband Steve, our sponsors David and Verla Sorensen as well. We hope you’ll join us next week. We are continuing in this brand new village of Kirtland, Ohio on FollowHIM. Thank you for joining us on today’s episode. Do you or someone you know speak Spanish, Portuguese, or French? You can now watch and listen to our podcast in those languages. Links are in the description below. Today’s show notes and transcript are on our website. Followhim.co. That’s followhim.CO. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilson, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kabwika, and Annabelle Sorensen.