Hank Smith 00:00:00 Coming up in this episode,

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:00:02 Here I am in Jerusalem. I had great anticipation of what it was going to be like. This is it. We walked into the traditional side. I was with my wife Lisa, and we walked in together. And I’ll have to admit, I was overwhelmed by the experience, but I felt heavy. And I sat down on a bench in that garden and it was a beautiful summer day. And all I could think of was…

Hank Smith: 00:00:27 Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of followHIM. My name is Hank Smith. I am your host and I’m here with John Bytheway, my co-host who is quick and powerful. John, doesn’t that just describe you?

John Bytheway: 00:00:40 My son said I was slow and weak when we were throwing the football the other day. So in the resurrection, that’s my goal. Quick and powerful.

Hank Smith: 00:00:49 Okay. Yeah, I’m going to have most of my hair back, I think in the resurrection. John, we are joined today by Dr. Matt Richardson. Matt, welcome back to followHIM. 

Dr. Matt Richardson Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here. I appreciate this. 

Hank Smith We’re going to have a lot of fun today, John Section 27 and 28. Not a lot of verses to cover, but a lot of content. What comes to mind when you think of the Sacrament in 27 or Hiram Page in 28?

John Bytheway: 00:01:21 Right off the bat Section 27 is unique because so many sections came as an answer to a question. In 27 that Angel just came and interrupted what they were up to. It tells you how important it was. It’s changed the way we do things. And there’s such a list of characters in Section 27. I’m just intrigued with things the Lord has us repeat. The sacrament is something that we have the privilege of repeating so often and it’s so meaningful. So I, I’m looking forward to that.

Hank Smith: 00:01:49 Yeah, the church is what, just four months old and the Lord is there saying, okay, let’s adjust this. Let’s do this. Matt, as you’ve looked at 27 and 28, where do you want to go today?

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:02:02 Well, you know, section 27 and 28, as you mentioned, not a whole lot of verses, but it’s kind of like looking at a necklace with jewels on and saying, boy, there’s not very many jewels there. But actually there are really quite beautiful and stunning each of themselves. And when you combine those together, it’s almost like a pearl necklace. You have a strand of pearls, but every pearl has its own value and also it brings the charm to the entire work. For me, section 27 and 28 is like that. There’s so many wonderful little tidbits for me. This is what the Doctrine and Covenants is. If you look at this book, it’s an amazing book. You have section one, which is actually after so many of the revelations were given, and it was the preface. 38 sections of the Doctrine and Covenants begin with the word hearken.

  00:02:48 I think that that’s important to note, especially in this section because it was mentioned that the Lord interrupts sometimes. And what he’s saying is, Hey, listen up really quickly. But as you know, hearken is more than just listening. It’s listen, comply. And I use that word on purpose. It’s not just listen and do, but there’s a compliance to it. It’s an invitation to say, Hey, I’m going to invite you to come. If you would like to listen and choose to obey or choose to comply, to submit to my will, great blessings will come. When I look at these sections, I’m thinking, this is really what the Doctrine and Covenants is all about. It’s of the pearl strand, so to speak. And there’s some really beautiful things here. Or the Lord is going to say, Joseph and anyone else who receives and listens to this one, listen up.

  00:03:38 Here’s some really great things. And the blessings that will come will bless you personally. They’ll bless your family and those around you. And it will have an everlasting blessing upon it. Because Section 27 especially talks about past, present and future of the disciple’s life. I’m a little bit biased, but these are really great examples of those that are seeking blessings, those that are seeking the balm of Gilead, to have something in their life to help them now in both the good and the ugly. When things are going well, or I don’t know if this will make sense, but this is important to me, is sometimes it’s not going bad and it’s not necessarily going great, but it’s kind of stalled and it’s almost like you’re plateaued or stuck. I served my mission in Denmark and there’s a phrase, people say, Hey, how are you doing?

  00:04:32 And they would say, godt nok. And that literally translated in Danish, it’s good enough. And so it’s like, Hey, how you doing? Good enough, good enough. But when I came home from my mission, people say, how you doing? And I say, good enough. And they say, oh, really? What’s wrong? What? What’s wrong? I’m like, oh, actually it’s good enough. It’s good enough. And I think sometimes we get into the habit of thinking everything has to be Mach 12 amazing or really super bad. But sometimes we get stuck in the middle here. And sometimes we’re doing good things, but we don’t feel like we’re progressing. And these sections, I think at least Section 27 for sure, is a section that goes through and says, Hey, this is for everyone, for when it’s going really badly or when it’s going really good. But if you feel like you’re stuck, here’s a section that’ll say, here’s some things that can be done to help you feel the presence of the Holy Ghost, the atoning power of Jesus Christ and the blessings from God the Father.

Hank Smith: 00:05:31 I remember being in high school and reading the Doctrine and Covenants and saying, there’s not really a story here. I liked the stories and now that I’m studying with all these experts, John, there is a story playing out just underneath.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:05:45 Yeah, the story frames it, but it’s not reading a story. Here’s a thought on this one. because I used to wrestle with that, still sometimes do, in thinking, what’s going on here? If we don’t read what’s taking place, at least to frame it, to give it context, we might be missing some of the beautiful gems. For example, I know you’ve already done this one, but section four, one of my favorite parts about section four is the fact that it was given really intended for Joseph Smith Senior. He’s saying, Hey son, what should I do? But here’s the reason I love it, and this is why the story is so beautiful, is it starts off, the field is white and ready to harvest. It’s given to a 52-year-old wheat farmer who knows everything about wheat. And for me, the great part of that story is not just the verse and the doctrine, is the fact that Jesus Christ is saying, let me give you something that you know about, in a way for me is saying, because I know about you, put a little context and then you listen to what takes place with the Lord, with those individuals back at that time period.

  00:06:47 But then it’s like, wait a second, this has everything to do with me right now, right here, and it will influence my tomorrows and my future. And so I’m with you Hank. It’s a different read, but it’s really quite lovely when you take a pause and at least frame it and saying, okay, and I found a lot of times we misquote scriptures because we’ve got this background story all wrong.

Hank Smith: 00:07:13 Context matters. Now that you’ve said that about Joseph Smith Sr, I wonder what he would say to us. Probably something like, the classroom is full, the students are ready, go in and teach. John, Matt was with us a year and a half ago or so when we did Ephesians, but there might be people here going, who is this? Matt Richardson. There might be a dozen people in the church who have never heard of Dr. Richardson. So John, give us a little background. You’ve known Matt for a while, right?

John Bytheway: 00:07:43 I first met Matt doing especially for youth. He used to give a talk called Get Off the Bench and Be a Letterman That’s kind of where I learned to be quick and powerful back then. He was on my graduate committee. Weren’t you Matt?

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:07:59 I was.

John Bytheway: 00:08:00 That was awesome. But Matt, he was the academic vice president at Brigham Young University from 2014 to 2020. But before that he was teaching church history and doctrine. And you’re back doing that again right now. Isn’t that right? 

Dr. Matt Richardson: That is true. 

John Bytheway: And Matt was the mission leader with his wonderful wife in the Minneapolis, Minnesota mission. There’s three M’S in there. I’ve heard they have 10,000 lakes. So,

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:08:26 They lost count. There’s way more than that. 

John Bytheway: 00:08:29 Yeah. When I’ve watched BYU sporting events have seen Matt there on the sidelines, but always with a suit and tie. 

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:08:36 Yeah. I don’t have any other clothes, let’s be honest.

John Bytheway: 00:08:40 That’s it.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:08:41 Yeah. And my kids think I was born in this suit and tie, 

Hank Smith: Matt, that was a part of your job as vice president. I know that you were very busy, but that was a part I was jealous of those seats at sporting events. 

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:08:53 Mm-Hmm. There’s no doubt about it. That’s what everyone would say. They would see you having great seats at all the sporting events and being around so many wonderful activities. And you know, I also had in my portfolio at the time, BYU broadcasting and all the events that took place, pretty much everything that could go wrong in the public eye and people would know about it. Those were all my areas. Yeah, I think that’s because I was expendable. But they would look at them and they say, you got the best job in the world. Look at all the fun things you do. And there’s so much truth to that. It was a great blessing and we were able to do many things, but that’s what we would usually do at nighttime with the events. It was what took place from 6:00 AM until about 5:00 PM where it was dealing with everything else.

  00:09:34 So it was a wonderful mix. Like everything that we do, it’s like parenting. You look at our Christmas cards and we all look so great and they forget, oh wait a second. There’s a little bit of wear and tear that goes on in between those times and it’s like everything, including our own discipleship. There’s ups, downs and stuff like that. So for me it was something bigger than what I could do on my own. To be part of that was a privilege. That’s one of the reasons I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I get to be part of it. I mean, I pinch myself and think I get to be a member of something that is so amazing. That doesn’t mean it’s always easy, but boy, it’s a privilege to be part of something that’s large.

Hank Smith: 00:10:10 Yeah, that is fantastic. Something that’s going to outlive us Yeah, for sure. Well into the eternities. Hey, just speaking of BYU sports, I have to tell you both about an experience I had recently. I was on a podcast called Two Point Conversion with BYU Football, two amazing athletes, Connor Pay and Chase Roberts, who if you follow BYU football, you know both of those names. They have a Come, Follow Me podcast and every so often they invite a guest on. I was just so impressed with these two young men. Here’s one, getting ready for the NFL, Connor. Here’s another getting ready for his senior year at BYU, Chase. I knew they’d be good guys, but I didn’t know they’d be just incredibly spiritual, wonderful young men. So I just want to throw that out there.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:11:00 You know, the thing I like about that is the way you brought that up, Hank was so many times with anything, and especially sometimes with athletes, it’s like, well here’s what they do and that defines who they are. But I like the way that you house this. One is they might do something, but who they are is much more. And as you’re speaking about how great they are as young men, that’s the biggest difference right there is what we do doesn’t always meaning our activities, our profession, our state, et cetera. It doesn’t always define who we are, but I love the fact that they’re allowing that to shine through. What a cool thing.

Hank Smith: 00:11:37 Incredible young people that we have coming up right behind us. Hey, I’m going to read from the Come, Follow Me manual. This lesson is called All Things Must Be Done in Order. And then Matt, John and I are ready to learn. It starts this way. “Revelation was still a relatively new concept for the Saints as the Restoration continued to unfold. Early Church members knew that the Prophet Joseph Smith could receive revelation for the Church. But could others? Questions like this became critical when Hiram Page, one of the Eight Witnesses of the gold plates, believed he had received revelations for the Church. Many faithful Saints believed that these revelations were from God. The Lord responded by teaching that in His Church “all things must be done in order”. That’s section 28, verse 13. This meant having only one person “appointed to receive commandments and revelations” for the entire Church (Doctrine and Covenants 28:2). Others, however, could receive personal revelation for their part in the Lord’s work. In fact, the Lord’s words to Oliver Cowdery are a reminder to all of us: “It shall be given thee … what thou shalt do” This is kind of a little toddler church, a brand new church. They’re still learning how this is going to work. Alright, Matt, with that, where do you want to go?

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:12:51 Well, let’s build off of what you just said. To start this one off we read, and most people can quote the scripture line upon line, precept upon precept, Hanks my imagination, here a little, there a little, it’s not always linear, I think is sometimes we expect it to be A, B, C, D, E, F, G. But sometimes it’ll go A, B, C, D, P Q L Z, M N O, And then we get back to the H I J K L and with the Lord. It seems that what he does is he says, look, I’m seeing all things right here, but I’m going to reveal things for your understanding and for your ability. We talk about the sacrament and we have so much history and so much experience personally with it, but in those days the sacrament was a rare experience when we’re looking at here in 1830. But we talk about how it’s supposed to be done.

  00:13:39 I have to laugh when I’ve served in callings with young single adults, particularly where you have members that come and they’re from all over the country and they’ll come up and they’ll say, Bishop, or hey president, we’re doing the sacrament wrong. And I go, what do you mean we’re doing it wrong? This is important to know. Thank you. Well, you don’t huddle up at the sacrament table and then break out as those who are passing it. You’re supposed to stand over here. You don’t put both hands in front of you. They’re supposed to be behind you when you’re waiting for the tray to come to you. You face this way but it’s the transactional experience of sacrament because you’ve had so much experience the way it is. So when Joseph says we’re going to have a sacrament meeting, everyone’s going sacrament meeting, this is awesome.

  00:14:20 Oh, hey Joseph, what is a sacrament meeting? Oh, I better go ask. And so then line upon line in the fledgling church in the early days here we are getting literally line upon line. Things are being established. We might say, oh of course the prophet is the only one who receives revelation for the church. You got to consider the timeframe. It’s the context we talked about before to not necessarily give them a break, but to understand what’s taking place and then say, what does that mean for us today? Because actually we’re doing a lot of the same things, even with the background that we have. When we jump into section 27, we can look at it and we say, look what it does for us, all things as the title would suggest, all things are done in order. The Lord does have an order and he hits an administrative side in section 27.

  00:15:10 But if we just look at the administrative side of section 27, it’s really fun and interesting, but we’re going to miss some really great pearls or gems for the rest of it. And how those fit together to create this, I’ll say it again, the balm, the salve, the experience to soothe us, to comfort us and to encourage us to be more. And that’s what I really like about this one. But it is a line upon line. And by the time we come to section 28, for me, I’m like going, you guys, he already revealed this in section 20 and 21 about what’s happening with Hiram Page. But we have to remember these are new concepts and he is teaching additional things, what he taught first time. Let me give you another line and then another line. And we’re unfolding it. We get the blessing of that one.

  00:15:59 And I just love the way that this unfolds. If we look at section 27, the date in the heading on this one is August of 1830. The background or the context to this one is Joseph and Emma are going to have a visit from Sally Knight, and Newel Knight. And as they’re coming over, they come up with the ideas, Hey, wait a second, Emma and Sally who are baptized not long before this, but because of some timing issues, persecution issues, they were not confirmed members of the church. And so they said, Hey, while we’re together, wouldn’t it be great if we could do the confirmation? And I’m assuming Joseph’s like great idea. They decided because of the occasion it would be good to hold the sacrament. Now they held the sacrament on the April 6th meeting as well. So let’s do the sacrament, the special gathering together.

  00:16:48 But they didn’t have any wine. And so Joseph said, I’ll run out and get some and so he’s out to get some wine as far as that goes. And as John mentioned, all of a sudden here comes the interruptions as an angel appears. I love this part of the story. This is where my mind goes at least. And he wasn’t appearing to him with a cask of wine. Here you go, Joseph, I know it’s far away. Let me solve your problem. Here’s some wine be on thy way. The Lord loves you. But what he does is he warns Joseph, he says, you’re on an errand here that is going to lead down a path, is your enemies can poison it, et cetera. Don’t go there. The angel is addressing a circumstance or a situation which is quite relevant and important, but it’s not really about the sacrament yet.

  00:17:33 And so what takes place? He says, here’s the warning. And now let me tell you a few things and build on the content that is going to bless you, not just right now and save your health for now with possibility of poisoned wine. But we’re going to talk about the nourishment of a soul here and how this sacrament is going to work. The first part is really an administrative beside of this section 27’s unique in a sense is then you’ll have an add-on. We have a very small part, which is the angel of August of 1830. And then you’re going to have things that are added on a little bit later. So you’re going to start to see things added on in 1833, 1835. And then what they do is Joseph decides we’re going to link these separate, three separates, and we’re going to put them together. And some people will say, well that was just a matter of convenience.

  00:18:22 I, for me personally, I think we see the teaching, the pedagogy of our Father in heaven and Jesus Christ in this really nicely is like, okay, here’s something now. Line. I’m going to give you another line and we’re going to hook these together and it’s going to give context and teach something beautifully. And then you come to the third one and upon line we’re going to see something really wonderful. And when we get the finished product is what we now call section 27. It’s really quite wonderful how that weaves together to teach us about something that can be quite mundane for us, which is taking the sacrament, because we do it regularly in the church every week. And if we’re not careful, the beautiful elements of ritual, which is rich with spiritual meaning power will turn into routine, which is just a commonplace event that is done over and over again.

  00:19:16 And in my opinion, sacrament should never be that one. As a matter of fact, I can’t help but think of one of my favorite phrases from President Holland where he taught about this and he said, perhaps we do not always attach that kind of meaning to our weekly sacrament service. And then he asked the question, how sacred and holy is it? And he’s referring to a statement from Joseph Fielding Smith that said that sacrament meeting is the most sacred, the most holy of all the meetings of the church, or at least it should be. And so Elder Holland’s saying, are we attaching that meaning to it in our sacrament experience? This is a big deal! Then the way section 27 does it, it’s a reminder in saying, Hey, this is why it’s a big deal and there’s more to it than just what you might think. It’s going to bless you in ways that you may not fully have thought about. Does that make sense?

Hank Smith: 00:20:06 Absolutely. Line upon line. That’s good teaching. I have a tendency as a teacher to sometimes dump too much on my students and they’re going, I don’t know what to do with all that. So you here a little, there a little. Okay, let’s build. Okay, let’s attach, here’s a little bit more.

John Bytheway: 00:20:24 I love your description of the necklace with pearls. There may be few, there’s only 18 verses, but wow, what precious jewels these each are. I love also that you used the word routine. Oh, the one thing I hope for me personally is sacrament never becomes routine because boy do I need that. I love that that sacrament table is bolted to the floor. It’s like you’re going to need this next week, everybody. We don’t wheel it in and out of the storage room. Come back, let’s do this again. It gives me a lot of hope to see that the Lord says, come back, let’s do it again.

Hank Smith: 00:21:01 Now the Lord knows it’s going to take you about six days and you are going to need a recharge all right? Oh no, I think I can go months. Eh, come back in six days. Come back in seven days. Matt. So we have Joseph Smith, he’s going out to get wine and the Lord says this doesn’t matter as much maybe as you think what you’re going to use.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:21:22 Well yeah. And that’s the administrative part of it. So think about the context. Don’t go buy wine Joseph because there are those who want to harm you. Okay? And let me give you some instruction. Here’s the answer, but here’s more to chew on or more that will help you with future answers, maybe even to questions you haven’t asked yet. Bottom line is, is he returns home empty handed or you can imagine everyone like going, Joseph, where’d you go? What happened? Well funny you should ask because I had an angel come and which was kind of nice, I got a note here of why, but he didn’t have wine. And so in the history it says what they do is they prepare their own wine. So it’d be probably akin to what we would call grape juice. Maybe they’re saying no, this is against our tradition, if you will.

  00:22:05 This is against what we’ve learned thus far. Then Joseph would say, funny thing is the angel said, and this is where you come in verse two. And as you were mentioning Hank, it really mattereth not what ye shall eat or what you shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament. No, this is okay. And then I’m actually following what the angel said right here. Here’s a big part of this and I think this is really an important part is in verse two is the next word and it’s a two letter word. If. It doesn’t matter, it mattereth not, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory and his glory is after the dash there remembering unto the father, my body which was laid down for you and my blood, which was shed for the remission of your sins.

  00:22:54 Some people read this verse and they only read the first couple of lines. Hey, it doesn’t really matter what you use for the emblems of the sacrament, the symbols of the sacrament, it doesn’t really matter. And I’m like going, oh, you’re not reading this. It doesn’t matter if, if you can do it with an eye single to the purpose of why we do the sacrament, the blood, the symbol of the blood, the symbol of the body, which we talk about, the remission of our sins and the resurrection. We look at that one. I’ve heard people say, so in other words you can use cookies. And the answer to that is sure, if you can eat a cookie for the sacrament and not think about I’m eating a cookie, youth love this one. And sometimes adults do as well. Well, we could have the coolest ward, I love the fifth ward.

  00:23:40 You know what they do for sacrament? Well, they’re not doing it right if it’s the coolest because they have cool snacks for sacrament because it mattereth not if we can have an eye single to the purpose. For me, there’s a greater lesson on this one. It’s about learning to focus, to look to Christ in every thought, to get rid of our fear and our doubts. And how do we do that? Focus, focus. Therefore, you could have any emblem technically, but if those who are partaking can learn to focus, this is going to remind me of the Savior. What a healing power, what a blessing it is, what an invigoration that is. Therefore in verse five he says, behold it is wisdom in me. Therefore marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth.

  00:24:32 And then all of a sudden we open up a whole new segment. Here’s a kind of a fun thought, and I know I’m going backwards, but you have to almost go backwards to understand the present so that you could be ready to be propelled into the future. In a way, the sacrament is akin to what we would do at the Passover, but what the Passover did was a commemoration of a past event where the children of Israel were saved and delivered from Egypt, from the bondage, whatever that might be for them, they would say would’ve been Egypt. The destroying angel comes in and they use the blood on the doorposts as a signifying factor for those who’d be saved. And here the grateful nation looks back and say, remember that day? Remember that great day when we were saved and there’s no way we could have been saved unless it was God because we had been in bondage for centuries and it was horrible, et cetera, but we were saved.

  00:25:27 Let’s never forget this. What they do is in the Passover feast is they remember the past, but then they look forward to the coming of the Savior. The first time is they’re doing a combination. Here’s the past and now we are eating together to remember that and say, how are we doing and looking forward for Jesus Christ coming. We’re looking forward to the deliverer and it’s really a beautiful concept. So then we have the last Passover with Jesus Christ and he introduces the sacrament. So we have the last supper, or really I like to call it the last Passover feast. And then he introduces the sacrament and look at the elements past, present, and future. And if you look at it section 27, it talks about the past. So we just did the past. So you look at those first, remember what happened in the garden, the blood, remember the body of Jesus Christ, look to the past just like the Passover did.

  00:26:25 And then we start to see this wonderful transition. Now I have to admit, after saying this is we go past, future and then we hit present the way that it was pieced together. Well, sometimes I’m like going, why did they piece that together in the way they did? And I think that there’s good reason for it. By the time you hit verse five, he’s saying it’s wisdom in me because here I’m going to tell you about the future that deals with this sacrament experience. And I will come and he says in verse five, I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth. I’m coming back and I’m going to have sacrament with you like I did with my apostles when I first instituted sacrament at that day of Passover prior to Gethsemane and the cross. And he says, I’m coming back and we’re going to do this together.

  00:27:12 I think this is really a beautiful concept. Let’s look to the future. We remember the past, don’t get stuck on it. And here’s why we’re doing this is looking and preparing the future. And then what he does is he goes through and he says, we direct our mind to the future. And then he says, oh by the way, and here I come, I’m going to eat and drink with you again. And then it goes through and it says, isn’t it nice? Is anybody else going to be there? Oh yeah, a few. Look at the guest list for this future sacrament meeting. I know Moroni verse five comes down and then all of a sudden you come into verse six, Elias in verse seven, John the son of Zacharias. Oh by the way, we also have Elijah. By the time we come to verse 10, Joseph and Jacob and Isaac and Abraham.

  00:27:56 Verse 11, Michael or in other words, Adam, the father of all, oh, don’t forget verse 12, Peter, James and John and I, you’re like going, that’s going to be a pretty cool sacrament meeting and then Joseph talks about it later. And you’re including other people like Nephi and Book of Mormon followers as well that will be included in this wonderful gathering in the future. So we remember the past. Why? Because it’s going to lead to an event that will gather in the future. Now here, I got to go back to the preface D&C section one is one of the things it says in there is you’re reading these revelations and it says that you should know that God will fulfill his promises and what he has spoken, he has spoken and it will come true. Now we’re reading about this experience where we’re grateful for our Savior Jesus Christ as we should be for all reasons of redemption and saving.

  00:28:51 And that’s the message, right? And then it says, but he’s coming again and have confidence that he will come and there’s going to be a guest list on this one. That’s going to be pretty phenomenal, I have to say, this is where for me it gets really fascinating and interesting is it talks about all those will come and it goes through and apostles and those that bear the keys, et cetera. And verse 13, it talks about how wonderful this is for the fullness of times. And then look at verse 14. He says, oh, by the way, in the guest list or on the guest list and also with all those whom my father have given me out of the world, oh it’s great for all those really heavy hitters that are going to be there when it comes down to it. But then he says that phrase there, and I think this is an important phrase, you know who else is going to be there at this great meeting in the future?

  00:29:41 All those whom my father have given out of the world. You’re like, well who does that include? And this actually reminds me of what Jesus taught after instituting the sacrament in John chapter 15 where you see this experience where he uses a phrase where he talks about those not of the world and he uses almost the same type of experience. And in those people not of the world in John, he says they are those who bear witness of Christ. They are those who remember him in John 16, they are those who receive the comforter. He talks about that in John 16 as well. And he says, and they are those who had the name of God and kept God’s word. And isn’t it interesting, if you look at that, you’re like going, wait a second, that sounds familiar. So those who bear witness of Christ who remember him always, those individuals who receive the Holy Ghost and have the Spirit to be with them always.

  00:30:38 I’m teasing this one out a little bit, but aren’t those the words that we use in the sacramental prayers? Who is it that gets called out? It’s those who partake worthily of the sacrament with an eye single to his saving grace and looking forward to his coming. Anyway, this is for me, I’ll admit this one. As I look at verses like this and I’m like going, yeah, of course Peter, James and John are going to be there. Of course, Elijah’s going to be there and Moroni and all the heavy hitters of the past, Joseph Smith, you’ll be there, and Jesus Christ, but I’m not in that category. That’s not me. I’m just your average guy. And I’m less than average in most cases in my life. Well, isn’t it wonderful that somebody’s going to have that one? But then all of a sudden this opens this wonderful thought. Here is, no, we’re inviting all those who will be called out of the world and the father hath called out.

  00:31:33 You can be among those. So what do you need to do? Well, it’s easy. Don’t be of the world. Oh, well how do you do that? That’s kind of easy. Come and partake of the sacrament and enter into that wonderful covenant. Renew that covenant. Like you’re saying, Hank, is, I’m trying so hard, but the world wore me down as far as I come back and reenergize, renew, revitalize, regenerate, and get a little bit more out of the world, a step at a time. I think that’s really quite a beautiful concept. I hope that makes sense. I don’t know if I slaughtered that one, but it’s so wonderful. I’m trying to describe something so great and my puny abilities. It’s like, do you catch the vision of this one? Well, I’m not good enough. Yes you are. Or at least you can be. So come. And I don’t know if you’ve ever thought of this one.

  00:32:22 Isn’t it interesting that something so personal as the Atonement in our lives that we commemorate it once a week and we go back and we visit, I love President Oaks once talking about don’t read during the sacrament and don’t go back and and do different things during the sacrament. Ponder what’s taking place in that sacrament. It’s a personal communion of, for me, a lot of times I just have gratitude. Thank you for saving my forefathers. Thank you for saving those people who came before me and made it possible. Thank you for helping save me. It’s the time of remembering that saving part of it. But something so personal is done in public. I don’t know if you ever thought that one through or what your thoughts are on that, but we do something so private, but yet we come together and actually I’m grateful that we do that.

  00:33:11 It’s nice to come amongst fellow citizens of the kingdom of God, people who are from every walk of life and every circumstance. Those that have and those that have not. Those that are healthy and those that are not. Men, women, children, nationality doesn’t matter. There are no strangers here, no foreigners here. And we’re all there saying, we want to get out of the world. We want to be more than what the world has to offer. And I don’t know if I have the ability to do it. And I find great strength in looking around me sometimes not to see who’s taking and not partaking of the sacrament, but there’s people there saying, I want to do this too and I’m in with you and we’re going to try hard.

Hank Smith: 00:33:51 I’m interested in the sequence that you talked about, past, future, present. That’s not the common sequence, past, present, future. But if you think about the past, then ponder the future, then the present, there’s more excitement for it.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:34:08 I’m glad you brought that out, Hank. That’s really a good point. You know when you think about it is we think back on the things of our past, but we are inspired. We’re going to see this in the Doctrine and Covenants. When you get a little bit farther down the road, you’ll start to see elements like in section 42 where you get the law of the church and then 43 comes and it says, look, when you gather, two things should always happen. You should be when it comes down to it, instructed or I’m going to teach you. And then it says, and edified, edified. And that’s not just to be inspired, that’s to build. But I’m going to give you a vision, I’m going to show you something that’s beyond. I was talking with a colleague yesterday in fact, and talking about the experiences. How do we keep on the path and endure and do we teach the ideal in the church? Should we teach the ideal? And then I thought of one of my all time influential figures was Spencer W. Kimball when I was young, when I was a teenager, when I was a missionary, and when I was first married, I mean he was the president of the church for, well I can’t remember carry the one, forever. 

  00:35:20 He used to say dream no small dreams for they don’t have the power to strike men’s hearts. And I thought, well we do need to teach the ideal, but we also need to teach past present. But that inspiring is like, yeah, this is going to be worth it. The someday. I want to go to that meeting, I want to be counted amongst those individuals. For me, that guest list, I’d love to meet all of them. That would be great just because I’ve read about them and they’ve actually inspired me in my path along my covenants. I like what you’re saying here is, okay, we know about the past, we understand the sacrament experience that was taught so long ago, but look at the future and that great day is coming. And as they testify in section one, everything the Lord said will come to pass, count on it, have faith in it. And then we hit the, okay, so what do we do about right now? And that’s where we transition into verse 15. That’s where you transition, I believe, to the present.

Hank Smith: 00:36:21 Strength from the past, strength from a vision of the future. Now let’s, what should we do? Therefore, what.

John Bytheway: 00:36:28 I love the idea of being invited to share a meal, I, I keep thinking of the New Testament and how is it that, is it Luke 15 that starts this man receiveth sinners, he actually eats with them. Here is the Lord inviting us to come and eat with him. And I think of the sacrament table as an altar sometimes remembering the body and the blood of Christ, but also as a table to come and eat with the Lord. He’s inviting us to come and eat with him. What you’ve done here, yeah, we’ve got this hall of fame of names and then verse 14, and you are invited to come and eat at the Lord’s table too. That’s really nice.

Hank Smith: 00:37:07 I have a quick question for both of you, and we don’t need to spend a lot of time on this. As I’m reading section 27, I’m not seeing maybe a tradition we’ve put in the sacrament, which is I’m going to sit and as the sacrament is going around, I’m going to think of all the things I’ve done wrong this last week. Now of course repentance is going to be part of the sacrament. I don’t see the Lord saying, okay, we’re going to have the sacrament. Don’t worry about the past, don’t worry about the future. I just want you to think about everything you’ve done wrong this week. To me, that’s not as edifying as what you’ve shown us here, is it? Do you have any comments on that? I’m not saying repentance, obviously we want to repent, but Matt, this sounds to me like let’s have an uplifting, powerful experience. And John, what would you say? Like, okay, everyone pack your bags. We’re going to go on a guilt trip. We’re

John Bytheway: 00:37:56 Going on a guilt trip. Yeah, 

Hank Smith: 00:37:59 Yeah.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:37:59 So, so what do you think? Well, we’ve gone on a lot of guilt trips. To illustrate the point, I had an opportunity where I visited the traditional side of the garden of Gethsemane. Here I am in Jerusalem. I had great anticipation of what it was going to be like. This is it. We walked into the traditional side, I was with my wife Lisa, and we walked in together. And I’ll have to admit I was overwhelmed by the experience, but I felt heavy. And I sat down on a bench in that garden and it was a beautiful summer day. And all I could think of was I contributed to the pain of someone I’ve come to love so much. It’s my fault. Why couldn’t I have been a better person? And his burden would’ve been lighter. Call it a guilt trip, call it a shaming experience or call it just heavy laden, I’m just not what I should have been.

  00:38:46 And I am all the dumb bad things. I wish I had my different scriptures with me because I was sitting there on the bench just feeling bleak and it was gloomy. And then I happened to look down and in my hand I was holding a flower. It was a little bougainvillea flower. They’re purple. The walls at that time were covered in Gethsemane with these flowers. And it’s actually a beautiful garden. I had plucked a flower off where I was sitting by the bench apparently, and I had it in my hands and I looked at it and all of a sudden I was reminded of how beautiful that flower was. And I looked up and in that garden I started to see the beauty. It was alive. It wasn’t a dead place, it wasn’t scorched and barren earth. Where of the bleakest, if ever there was a center point of where everything was concentrated, of all the sins and all the pain and all the guilt and all the horrific things that have been removed because of the savior Jesus Christ and his atonement.

  00:39:48 It was not scorched earth, it was actually a garden. And it was beautiful. And I remember holding that flower, looking at it and thinking, this is what it’s about. It’s not about the past sins, it’s about the beauty that will come. It’s the beauty that happened here. And granted, I have things that I am not proud of, but I am proud of the fact that I am here in the garden looking forward to greater life. And it turned into a living source rather than a dead end experience. The sacrament should be the experience I think where we’re looking for the life that is the potential and we’re overcoming. And sometimes the sins that we have and the mistakes that we have made have longer consequences, but the redemption is real and it will come even if it takes a little bit of time. So the sacrament is a time where it’s like, hey, this is soothing my soul for the moment, knowing I can take more steps, I can be better, even if it’s just this much this week, I’m going to be better than I have been rather than focusing.

  00:40:55 And that reminds me how bad I’ve been and here’s all I can be better and how can I do that? And that’s where we get the transition to verse 15 of saying, okay, here’s some things that the sacrament will do for you when you leave the meeting house, when you leave the safety in our numbers, when you leave the compadres, the colleagues, the friends in this meeting today. And we go out and we sojourn and we enter into, if you will, the battle of daily living from sainthood to being in the world. And it is a war in many cases. So what can you do? Oh, by the way, why don’t you just read verses 15 through 18 and that could help you out. That’s what I love about this section. Look, how bad was it for the children of Israel? Pretty bad. But they were saved. They were saved. And then of course the hard part was not getting the children of Israel out of Egypt. It was getting Egypt out of the children of Israel and that took some years but it was redemptive. And then all of a sudden the Promised Land and all promises fulfill the war begins. But yet this is a time of respite to be able to say, I’m ready and I can be a little bit better because of him.

John Bytheway: 00:42:10 I’m thinking of times when I didn’t have time to think of all the stupid things I’d done that week because I was trying to find the binky and are those are Cheerios or is that the Cheerios of the ward that met before us? Of those parents of young children who just struggle to try to have a spiritual experience during that time. And I’m just so glad they came. I watch them in stake conference sitting in the back and wrestling for two hours on the hardest chairs ever invented I’m so glad they showed up and that’s why I love this what you said, Matt, that I’ve got my issues but I showed up and you’re calling me out of the world. So shout out to those parents of young children. It’s not easy to sit and to try and have a spiritual experience when you’re trying not to have your kids disrupt the whole chapel.

Hank Smith: 00:43:04 Yeah. Have you ever heard one of those thunks and you know someone’s head just hit something and you know, in about two seconds there’s going to come a wail.

John Bytheway: 00:43:13 There’s a long exhale and then an inhale in here can you run out of the chapel before the scream ?

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:43:21 You know we used to laugh about this, what you both have just mentioned and John what you’re saying is it was kind of like I knew every person, these are the olden days who got their Eagle Scout award since 1961 and every person who got their Young Women’s medallion and who went on the daddy-daughter dates and when the speakers were going to be for the devotionals that are going to be broadcast and how you prepare for summer. Because I’m out in the hall with a child doing laps and reading everything that’s on the door. I knew the address of every bishop in the building because I read the tithing envelopes because what else are you going to do? I’m doing laps. And then you see other people doing laps and you pass them. I’m on lap 62, 61 as you mentioned as I came to the conclusion, I believe this with all my heart.

  00:44:09 Being in the right place at the right time, doing the best that you can brings sacred blessings and it endows you with greater courage, faith, and even the fortitude to be able to carry on. And I think that that’s why the sacrament meeting is so critical And every talk should be about helping us come to the atonement of Jesus Christ for the sacrament. Everything prepares us. That is the pinnacle of it all. But you’re in the right place, you’re in the right time and you’re doing the right thing. And I personally believe God will never forget you for that.

Hank Smith: 00:44:47 Yeah, that’s where you’re going to find that balm, right? Even if you don’t recognize it right then.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:44:52 You’re right. And sometimes isn’t that true? We talked about being instructed and edified whenever we gather together. Sometimes the edification and sometimes the instruction will come even after the moment and the meeting where you’re pondering or thinking about that. And that’s one of the reasons I love things like Come, Follow Me. And things that we have tried to be able to put more in our homes, in our personal lives where we don’t have to only be in the church to have the renewal going on in this process. What can you do and what does the sacrament do for you? So here’s the transition. And most people look at this and they’re saying this is weird. He just lifted Ephesians right here and pulled out the armor of God and just said, Hey, wouldn’t this be a fun place? It was so important in the New Testament.

  00:45:35 You got to include it somewhere in these modern scriptures. How about section 27? I personally do not believe that this case, as a matter of fact for me, this is the robust experience, the pearls on the necklace. Again, don’t forget this pearl right here. We went past, we went future. Now what do we do in the present? You go and you fight, you walk out of this room and now we’re in the world and you’re going to have to fight. And so it starts off wherefore. And I like that transition of wherefore in scriptures. Because usually that means it’s a conjunction, therefore, therefore could also be stated as because of this. And for me that’s an important framing because of what we learned about the past and the emblems, the tokens of the sacrament because of what we learned about the future and that great meeting which will be fulfilled.

  00:46:24 And you are invited and we’re planning on you being there because of this. It goes through, he says, lift up your hearts and rejoice and gird up your loins. And if I just went to that part right there, isn’t that the best part? When we walk out of sacrament meeting we should say, okay, I can do this with the Lord’s help. I can find solutions to my perplexing questions with the Lord’s help. Okay, there’s reason to rejoice and then I like this part because I think it’s very real. Gird up your loins. And I mean this is a New Testament, Old Testament phrase where I think when you look at it, for me it’s always like clinch, get ready for the hit because here it comes and it’s going to be a tough one. I’m going to punch you. Okay, go ahead and punch me. That’s what I always thought gird up the loins was.

  00:47:10 But in the Old Testament, the New Testament, it had more of a connotation as you would pull up your long robes and you would tie them around your stomach, your loins and you would tie it. You would gird your loins. Why not for the hit? Because it’s going to be hard. Mostly it’s because when you pull up your long robes and you tie them around your waist like that, now you can run. Now you can move, you can be nimble. Now we go to work. It’s almost like a phrase that we could use today is roll up your sleeves, rejoice, here we go. Roll up your sleeves. And by the way, take upon you, it says in verse 15, the whole, not part, the whole armor. Why I sometimes I do this and this could be dangerous, never add to scriptures, but for me it’s kind of helps me whenever I see comma that sometimes my brain says, so I put so in there.

  00:48:01 So do this. Why? So that ye may be able to withstand the evil day. Having done all that ye may be able to stand. Isn’t this kind of an interesting phrase? This is of course straight out of when you look at what’s happening in Ephesians and in the Greek concept of that is you have two English words withstand. It says there, it says that you may be able to withstand the evil day. And having done all that you can do that you’ll be able to stand. When you look at that concept, what happens here is in the Greek, what it’s doing is it goes through and it says, Hey, I want you to be able to withstand and stand. But there’s two different things. It’s kind of like king of the mountain to withstand is when the force comes, you’re going to be able to hunker down and take the blow, batten down the hatches.

  00:48:48 You’re not going to be pushed off the mountain. You will be able to withstand and you’ll be able to stand. And the two Greek connotations is to stand firm. But also there’s a situation is push forward. I’m going to push back and push back. And I think the sacrament actually does that for us. In the armor of God, if you take the sacrament, remembering the past and the power by which you will be able to face and be in the future because you have a future now you’re going to be able to have joy and happiness. So gird up your loins, get ready to work because you’re going to make it. You’re going to withstand all the problems you’re facing and you’re not going to be pushed off. And you’re also going to be able to push back appropriately. So you’re not just on the defensive, but you appropriately on the offense in this wonderful, crazy difficult thing we call life.

  00:49:40 Whether that’s with children at home or whether that’s a job that you don’t love very much, or whether you don’t have a job. And I love this one, lift up your hearts, not just your voice. Lift up your hearts and rejoice. Get ready to move because you’ve got this. Roll up your sleeves and take on the armor of God so that you can survive this week, this moment, this day. Even when you don’t know how you can do it, you’re going to be okay. Then it goes. And it says verse 16, stand therefore having your loins gird about with truth, having on the breastplate of righteousness, and your feet, shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace, which I have sent my angels to commit to you. Taking on the shield of faith, ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Take on the helmet of salvation and the sword of my Spirit. As we said before, this is a repeat of Ephesians and this is deja vu when it comes down for me, because that’s the last time I was with you was when we were doing Ephesians and we talked about the armor of God.

Hank Smith: 00:50:44 When you said Ephesians, I thought, well, I didn’t do that on purpose it just happened as you said that I thought, wait, you were here for Ephesians

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:50:53 And people who hear me talk and stuff, they’ll forget what I said three minutes after I say it. So I’m not like, oh boy, this is a rerun. They did reruns here, those guys and stuff. And I know that they’ve probably forgotten, maybe not. But there’s a purpose here. And for me, it gives me greater hope of the whole armor of God experiences. When you put it in the context of the sacrament, it’s like, oh my gosh, how do we put on the armor of God? And what is the armor of God? When we look at this one, I can’t help but think of a talk by Harold B. Lee. He gave it in speeches of the year at BYU. This was a long time ago, 1954. When he talks about that, he says, look, we have the four parts of the body which are most vulnerable.

  00:51:32 And that’s what Paul is doing. He’s saying, protect your kill zones, your head, your brain, protect your heart, protect your vital organs, your loins. And then you’re like going, well, what’s so vital about feet? Well in battle, that’s your mobility. You don’t have mobility, you are toast. Yea verily burnt toast, it’s over quick. Here he is saying is make sure you protect that because that’s going to give you mobility to move to retreat when you need to retreat. But take the offensive, there’s the stand withstand part again. And then Harold B. Lee says is that’s the symbolism of Paul, but have you ever thought about this. And he says, we have the four parts of the body that are most vulnerable to the powers of darkness, the loins, typifying, virtue and chastity, the heart typifying, our conduct, our feet, our goals, our objectives in our life. And finally, our head or our thoughts, if you think about it, we put the helmet on to protect our thoughts.

  00:52:32 We put a breastplate on to protect our conduct. We protect our loins with a girdle or a protective element there to protect our virtue or our chastity and we protect our goals or our objectives with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And all of a sudden that gives us an element to say, okay, I’m going to wear this armor because these are the things I need to protect, but what does that have to do with the sacrament? And I can’t help but think this is gearing up when we partake of the sacrament and the prayers, it says, I will always remember him. So how do you protect your thoughts? The sacrament promise that you make is like putting on the helmet of salvation. because King Benjamin teaches that salvation is Jesus Christ and there’s no other name but him. So I’m going to put on the helmet of Jesus Christ.

  00:53:20 Or in other words, I’m going to think of him always and I will protect thoughts because of my covenant, the sacrament. Then it comes down and says, well what about what’s going to take place with your conduct, your righteousness? Well, what do we promise when we partake of the sacrament? I will keep his commandments. I’m going to protect the way that I act by keeping his commandments. And I’m going to be able to develop clean hands and a pure heart by having that renewed energy, that strength beyond my own in my conduct this week by my dedication and commitment. I’m going to do my best to keep the commandments. How do we protect our chastity, our virtue? And by the way, virtue is not only chastity. I mean the English word virtue comes from Latin virtus, which means power. How do we protect our vitality, our power? And here it comes down and says it’s through the truth.

  00:54:15 That’s what Harold B. Lee says. How do you protect that? You protect it with truth. And how do you know the truth in any given circumstance when sometimes the world makes it so muddy you don’t even know what’s right and wrong sometimes because it’s such a crazy world that we live in. How do you do it? My understanding is there’s only one way and the bearer of all truth is the Holy Ghost. And it will always tell you the truth in all things. And we learn in two Nephi, the scriptures will tell you the truth, but the Holy Ghost will show you the truth and will show you what to do if you’re in a bleak moment and you’re at the end of your rope and you have no vision of what to do. Thank goodness for the Holy Ghost. And so what do we do in the sacrament?

  00:54:55 And when it comes down to it, we make a pledge and to live our lives in a way that we will always have his Spirit to be with us. Boy, that’s the armor of God. And then what about your goals or your objectives or your feet? How do you get the traction there is? Be prepared by taking upon you the restoration of the gospel of peace. The gospel will form your goals. It’ll tell you about your future goals. And I want to be redeemed. I want to be better than I’ve been in the past. Well, how do you get that traction? Well take on the armor of God. Make goals and objectives or in other words, I love this part in the sacrament. Take his name upon you. In other words, let him be your goal. Let his attributes be what you want to do. For me, when I look at this one, I just can’t help but think of, okay, we looked to the past and we’re grateful and we recognize the Atonement and our deliverance will only come thence.

  00:55:53 We look at the beautiful future, we think, oh, that’s inspiring. That’s horrifying. If you have doubts, people like me got invited and so there’s good news for you. Okay, how do I get there? Fight. You’re just going to be a battle. And when you leave the sanctuary of our church building and the saints and stuff, you’re not going to be alone. You’re taking with you the armor of God. And we just put it on together in that meeting by making promises and those wonderful prayers. I look at it as we just put the armor of God on and now we’re ready to go into the world. See if we can make it. I believe we can. And then we come back and we replace the armor that got a few dings here and a few dings there and we put the armor on again. For me, section 27 is one of the great pearls because I need help and we all need help and we need answers or at least we need enough answers to carry on for today. Sometimes that comes in the moment of the sacrament and then what happens after the sacrament when we live in the world? Thank goodness for this instruction and the way that it was outlined. Thank goodness for revelation.

John Bytheway: 00:57:09 I can’t remember if we did this when we talked about Ephesians, but I brought with me one of my favorite Elder Jeffrey R. Holland statements. I loved this because I had never thought about the sequence. Then the last thing that is mentioned, you see a guy going to battle, you see all this protective stuff, but the last thing is actually a weapon. You could argue a sword is defensive as well. But this is what Elder Holland said. He said the scriptural passage speaks of breastplates and shields and helmets, all of which are important and protective, but which leave us in a sense without an actual weapon, yet are we only to be on the defensive? Are we to simply ward off blows and see it through and never be able spiritually speaking to strike a blow? No. We are supposed to advance in this and win a battle that started in heaven long ago.

  00:58:00 So we need some kind of even chance in the offense. And we are given it. You are given it. The weapon that is mentioned, the thing that allows us to actually do battle with the darkness of the world to use Paul’s phrase, is the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And then Elder Holland said, may I repeat that? The sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. I love how you connected this to the sacrament because there’s the priest saying the last line that they may always have his spirit to be with them, that to re-arm there, the sacrament table, you’re dinged up, but your sword is back. Go face the world for another week.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 00:58:40 It’s quite lovely when you’re reading that. I couldn’t help but think of a statement by President Oaks and it goes like this. He says, out of the seemingly small act of consciously and reverently renewing our baptismal covenants, we often talk about the sacrament as renewal of our covenants. It’s really putting the armor back on. It’s putting our membership, but he says, of consciously and reverently renewing our baptismal covenants, comes a renewal of the blessings of the baptism by water and by the Spirit. Now this is the part I’d really like so that we may always have his Spirit to be with us in this way. All of us will be guided and in this way all of us can be cleansed. That’s kind of cool. So if we’re seeking redemption, you want to be better come partake of that renewing experience. Sup. Remember, endure, let’s go. Let’s roll up the sleeves.

John Bytheway: 00:59:38 What a privilege to be invited to come to the Lord’s table. You guys know this better than I do, but the symbol of eating with somebody in the New Testament was, I accept you, I affirm you, I’m inviting you. And here’s the Savior saying, just come as you are. Come to this table, come as you are and we’ll work on the future. And this is how you do it with 17, 18 there.

Hank Smith: 01:00:03 I’ve been thinking about the people listening and we have warriors out there who are exhausted and I think this is the Lord’s answer. I know you’re tired. Look to the past. Gain strength from me. Look to the future. You’re going to be there. Alright, you can do this. I won the lottery of mother-in-laws. I don’t know about you guys, but my mother-in-law, Marlene Baker Savage, she was spectacular. She passed away about 10 years ago. I remember when we had our twins and we had three little kids already and called her once, I think I was complaining, hoping she’d come to the rescue, right? like, you’re going to come take these children. She said, you know, sometimes you have to go out onto the porch and you have to tell the Lord you can’t keep going. And then you go back inside and you keep going. I did that. I think maybe the sacrament is that moment of I can’t keep doing this, I’m going to keep doing this. When you pointed out gird up your loins, I automatically thought of fresh courage take, our God will never us forsake. Matt, I’ve noticed a lot of these sections finish on a very up note. If you go to the last verse of almost any section of Doctrine and Covenants, not all of them, but if you go to the last verse, it’s be faithful until I come and this one, ye shall be caught up and where I am you will be also. You don’t often find the Lord saying, yeah, it doesn’t look good. Alright. Amen. Right? No it’s always a shot in the arm. You can do this.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 01:01:43 I agree. And that’s the beauty of what takes place here. And so no wonder the Lord would say in, so the opening where we kind of started this conversation is in the opening of so many of these revelations, hearken, I want you to listen to this, but don’t just listen to the beginning and the middle, but also catch that wonderful like you pointed out, Hank, this is, I’m here, I’m going to save you. I am your friend, I’m your advocate. It’s hard. I was just thinking about this other day. Well, if you love me so much, can’t you remove some things from my life right now?

Hank Smith: 01:02:12 Yeah.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 01:02:13 You know, I’ve paid a price. I’ve given you a lot of devotion or whatever it might be. I want to cash in my righteous coins. I’m in a moment of need. Here’s my tokens or something and yet the plan of salvation is not simply to get somewhere. It’s not to be at a meeting per se. Although we talked about the beauty of that. It’s to become something. And he knows that we need to go through some circumstances. For me, sometimes I need to be more patient. And I look back in hindsight and say, isn’t it interesting how the Lord has taught me to be more patient? He’s given me opportunity to learn, to be more patient, to prove myself and to exercise and practice patience so that I don’t just do patience, but I become patient. That was a story of pretty much my whole mission. 

  01:02:57 Was learning about things like that experience. And looking back, I’m like going, oh, I see that part. So for all of us, that’s the same way. When it comes down to it is the Lord is aware of us. And I love what you’re saying, Hank his message is good news and it is of great joy. That doesn’t mean that we are always going to have this status of the way that we feel about A, B, or C because we are becoming something that is greater. And I love the way this section ends as you just pointed out. And he says, I will be with you. I’m going to be with you after President Nelson’s talk about the coming of Christ. I’m like going, is that going to be on Saturday ? I mean he talked about Jesus Christ coming again the second time as if it was going to be on Saturday.

  01:03:39 But my luck is if the Savior were going to come on a date, let’s just say whatever, December 25th, I would probably be hit by a bus on the 24th of December and I would miss it. And so I’ve realized it’s not when the Savior comes as much as when I come to him, that is going to be the crucial moment. Once again, here’s section 27 is so be ready, gird up your loins. And we may be feeling like we are failing and it’s not going to work and never make it to that day. But yet he’s saying is, I’m going to be with you right now. And the sacrament helps you to feel me. Now I will send you a comforter. I sent it. I’ve sent it. And the fact that you’re here supping with me today is I will give you in the measure for which I can, that comfort and that peace just receive it. It’s really a wonderful concept. And it is worth looking at the good part because it is no matter where we’re at and how bleak it may be. This is a moment of clarity of good things to come and hope.

Hank Smith: 01:04:49 John, this section reminds me of how you described the first vision. Sometimes Joseph goes in with, Hey, which church should I join? it turns into this mastery, right? This,

John Bytheway: 01:05:01 All I wanted to know is what church to join. 

Hank Smith: 01:05:03 And now it’s this prophetic work you’re going to have for the rest of your life. And it’s almost this way in 27, oh, I got to go get wine. Actually, you don’t need that. And here’s everything else, You ask the Lord for a fork and he gives you the whole house that comes with it. It’s just part of his nature, I think, is he just wants to pour out knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints.

Dr. Matt Richardson: 01:05:27 And isn’t that great revelation? When you look at the concept of revelation, the term actually in English comes mostly from the Greek term, which is the concept of revealing. Well, what does that mean exactly? And sometimes I think it’s almost, oh, for lack of better term, if you have a cloth over an object and you say, I’m going to reveal what’s under here, and it’s like ta-da That’s what I think revelators actually do is prophets, seers and revelators, they ta-da. You know? And they reveal things and it might not be everything we expect. As a matter of fact, my experience has been what you just described, Hank, is rarely is it that I get fed what I ask for. I get a smorgasbord of much more. And sometimes it’s like, I didn’t even know I was getting dessert in this package deal but thank you for that.

  01:06:10 Yeah. And he reveals things of here’s so much more. Here’s some answers to the questions you didn’t ask, but you wanted to ask. You didn’t even know that they were questions and he gives us this insight. And that’s what happens throughout the scriptures. Sometimes what he reveals is, you’re going to be okay. Ta-Da, you can do this. And I’ve had moments, and I’m sure all of us have, I’m hoping all of us have had moments where you’re saying, Heavenly Father, what should I do? And here’s the revelation, ta-da as he reaches out of heaven. And he goes, you’re doing just fine. And it’s like, no, I’m not. I’m doing horrible. And I didn’t ask you that. I said, what should I do? Yep, you’re doing great. You’re doing great. Hang in there. You’re doing great. Sometimes that’s the ta-da that we need is, you’re okay, but I don’t know what I’m doing, but you’re doing okay. Hang in there and I will never leave you alone. For my Spirit will always be with you. If you are striving to come to me, remember me working hard to get there. Just keep moving. Don’t you love our prophet who has said one of the most important things we’re doing is spiritual momentum. And what is momentum? By definition, it’s movement. So just keep moving.

John Bytheway: 01:07:24 And isn’t it wonderful that the way this ends, that where I am ye shall be also. And that is the promise. At the end of the sacrament prayer, always have his Spirit to be with them. I know Elder Hafen did a whole thing about with you, you’re never alone. I will be with you. Something I’m hearing a lot more often, which I’m really grateful for, is please don’t talk about a covenant like a contract. I do this. You do this. Okay, sign here, sign here. Now let’s put that in the file cabinet. It’s no, it’s a relationship. The Savior wants to be with us. There’s a loyalty involved in that. And there’s also, when I’m weak, I can draw on the Savior’s strength because I’ve made a covenant and he’s going to be with me thinking of it that way. It’s ongoing. It’s not a contract I put away, it’s a promise that he’s going to be with me. And he invites us back every week to, like you said, Hank, let’s do this again.