Hank Smith: 00:01 Welcome to followHIM, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come, Follow Me study. I’m Hank Smith

John Bytheway: 00:09 And I’m John Bytheway. We love to learn. We love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you as together we followHIM.

Hank Smith: 00:20 Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of followHIM. I’m your host, Hank Smith. I’m here with my exceedingly glad co-host, John Bytheway.

John Bytheway: 00:29 Oh, that sounds so Book of Mormon. I’m not just glad. I’m exceedingly glad.

Hank Smith: 00:36 Wait till you get exceedingly glad beyond all-

John Bytheway: 00:39 Glad beyond all measures.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 00:40 Beyond all measure.

Hank Smith: 00:41 All measure.

John Bytheway: 00:43 We can’t even put a measure on it. It’s…

Hank Smith: 00:46 immeasurable

John Bytheway: 00:46 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 00:47 We want to remind everybody that you can find the podcast on social media. We have an Instagram page. We have a Facebook page. Our wonderful Jamie Neilson runs those. So come on over and check out all the extras that we have there. If you want to watch the podcast rather than listen to it, you can find it on YouTube. And if you want to go to our website, followhim.co, and please take time to rate and review the podcast. That really helps us out.

Hank Smith: 01:14 John, we’ve already had a bunch of fun before we hit the record button. So we better introduce our guests so we can get everybody caught up to speed. Tell us who’s with us.

John Bytheway: 01:21 Oh, absolutely. We’re delighted to have Jennifer Reeder here and I am excited to show you. This is where I’m getting her, look at the word first and how it reflects there if you’re watching on video today, [inaudible 00:01:36], that tells you [inaudible 00:01:39] loves this book.

Hank Smith: 01:40 What a beautiful book.

John Bytheway: 01:40 Yeah. And to refer to Emma as the first lady, I love this. The book is called First: The Life and Faith of Emma Smith.

Hank Smith: 01:48 By Dr. Reeder.

John Bytheway: 01:50 Yes. And I was joking with Dr. Reader because I was listening in the car and missed my exit. I was so involved. Let me tell you about our guest today. Jennifer Reeder is a 19th century women’s history specialist in the church history department. She has a PhD in American history from George Mason University. I love George Mason. I’ve quoted George Mason on this podcast. And an MA in history documentary editing and archival management from New York University, with a BA in humanities in English teaching from Brigham Young University. She’s originally from Provo, Utah. She served a mission in Catania, Italy. She has co-edited two books, At the Pulpit: 185 Years of Discourses by Latter-day Saint Women. That was with Kate Holbrook, and Witness of Women: Firsthand Experiences and Testimonies from the Restoration with Janiece Johnson. I feel like having being listening to this, I feel like I know you a little bit already from your writing, so thank you for joining us on followHIM today.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 02:59 Well, thank you. It’s a privilege.

Hank Smith: 03:01 We are very excited to have Dr. Reeder with us. Since we have an expert here with us, John, let’s jump into this week’s lesson. We are looking at sections 125 through 128 of the Doctrine & Covenants. Obviously we’re getting closer to the end of our study this year. And that would mean the end of Joseph’s life. So Dr. Reader, take John and I and our listeners wherever you’d like to go to set us up for the sections.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 03:32 All right. I’m going to start with the Saints leaving northern Missouri, and fleeing east to the Mississippi River to take refuge for the winter of 1838 and 39. And they settled in various settlements along the riverbanks, both in Iowa Territory and in the state of Illinois. They had abandoned all hopes of immediately building Zion in Missouri. And they were despondent, as I can imagine. I’m going to bring in as many women’s voices as possible. I want to share the words of Elizabeth Haven, who was 19 years old. She wrote to her cousin, another Elizabeth, on February 24th, 1839. And I think this really gives us an idea of how the saints are feeling. She says, “Oh, how’s Zion warns. Her sons had fallen in the streets by the cruel hand of the enemy and her daughters weep in silence. It is impossible for my pen to tell you of our situation, only those who feel it know.”

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 04:40 And then in her letter, she explains that the Saints had been driven from the places of gathering out of the state of Missouri, from houses and lands in poverty to seek for habitation where they can find them. The stakes of Zion will soon be bereft of all of her children. And then she says this, and this I think is the saddest because literally, “By the river of Babylon, we can sit down. Yes, dear E”, her cousin Elizabeth, “We weep when we remember Zion.”

John Bytheway: 05:12 Oh man. And that was a 19-year old who wrote that?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 05:16 Mm-hmm (affirmative).

John Bytheway: 05:17 Wow.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 05:17 It just depicts how sad and discouraged they are. The Lord had promised them that they would build Zion in Missouri and they were all set to do that. And then it just didn’t work out.

Hank Smith: 05:31 Oh, driven from county to county to county and finally out of this state.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 05:36 Right. The largest number of Saints settled in and around Quincy, Illinois, which is the true refuge. And the people of Quincy had first encountered the saints on their way to Missouri. So between 1834 and 38. And then in the winter of 1838 to 39, there were thousands of displaced saints walking eastward across the frozen Mississippi river. And many of them settled temporarily in Quincy. The population in Quincy grew from 800 in 1835 to 2300 in 1840. So within five years, and that’s all because of the Saints.

Hank Smith: 06:21 My goodness. It’s a flood of people.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 06:23 It is a flood of people, an influx of refugees or immigrants or whatever you want to call them. I think this is really interesting. The town of Quincy really prided themselves on being generous and benevolent. They had a Quincy Democratic Association and they publicly denounced Missouri for their injustice toward the Saints.

Hank Smith: 06:47 Really? Wow.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 06:48 There might’ve been a little state competition going on there.

Hank Smith: 06:51 We are nicer than you guys.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 06:55 Yeah. And they pledged to assist the Latter-day Saint refugees. The town’s people gathered donations and arranged housing and coordinated with local communities to provide assistance for the impoverished saints. It kind of reminds me of the news stories we’ve been seeing lately about how Latter-day Saints in Germany have worked to accommodate the Afghan refugees and how they’re doing that all over. I love that because I think it’s just kind of a give and take. It’s we’ve been in your position and we want to help you kind of thing, although it’s generations later.

Hank Smith: 07:32 Yeah. But that’s a beautiful idea that you see yourself in people that you are now able to help and serve. You say I was once in that place. That’s a beautiful idea.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 07:46 Yeah. So back to Elizabeth Haven, she said that, “God has opened their hearts to receive us. We are hungry and they feed us, naked and they clothed us. The citizens have assisted beyond all calculation.” And she also prayed that the heaven’s blessings would rest upon them, which I think is really sweet. Also, I love this, that Eliza R. Snow, who later would be called Zion’s Poetess wrote a poem and printed it in the Quincy Whig, the newspaper. It’s called ”To The Citizens of Quincy.” And she’s very grandiose in her language, but she was very sincere. She said, “Ye sons and daughters of benevolence, whose hearts are tuned to notes of sympathy. Who have put forth your liberal hand to meet the urgent wants of the oppressed and poor.” It’s actually a really long poem. I’m not going to read the whole thing. But at the end it says, “The gratitude which emanates from spirits, such as these, is no mean offering, neither cheaply one, you noble, generous hearted citizens of Quincy.” So nothing but high praise and gratitude.

Hank Smith: 08:58 Yeah. That sounds very scriptural. She is kind of speaking scripture there. That is beautiful.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 09:04 That’s how she writes. She’s amazing. I think it’s interesting that when Emma Smith brought her children across the frozen river, she also was carrying the Bible translation manuscripts under her skirt and the river wasn’t frozen enough that they could all just ride in the wagon. She gets out of the wagon and walks and she’s holding her baby and her toddler. You’ve probably seen the painting by Liz Lemon Swindle. And Julia and Joseph III are holding onto her skirts and she’s got these manuscripts and she’s walking across the river. And Joseph III grows up and talks about what a traumatic experience this was. It’s scary. Their dad’s in jail, in the Liberty jail way back in Missouri. And they’re just forging ahead.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 09:58 They end up staying in the home of Sarah Cleveland who lives in Quincy. Her husband’s not a member of the Church, but Sarah later becomes Emma’s first counselor in the Relief Society, which I think is awesome.

Hank Smith: 10:13 Yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 10:13 So at this point, the saints are determined to take advantage of the powers of government. They have been through so much in Missouri and even in Kirtland, and they really wanted to establish a city where they would be free to exercise their religious rights with the protection of legal authority, something that they had not been afforded before.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 10:35 On December 16th, 1840, the Illinois Governor Thomas Carlin and the legislature of Illinois were eager to get the votes of Mormon refugees. This is just stacking up for them politically. So they created an act to incorporate the City of Nauvoo, which granted very extensive legal powers to the citizens. And this actually will come into play a little bit later in the sections that we’re talking about today. So this charter, the city charter, allowed the saints to organize a legislative body of their own to create laws within the city and to create the Nauvoo Legion, which was a subset of the state militia, and to establish a university, which they didn’t quite get to.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 11:27 And so, they became an incorporated church in Illinois with Joseph Smith as trustee. And that’s also important because at the end of his life it was a problem for Emma.

Hank Smith: 11:43 This property is in his name.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 11:45 Right.

Hank Smith: 11:46 And it now belongs to her, but I’m sure-

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 11:49 -But it also belongs to the Church.

Hank Smith: 11:50 The Church. Yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 11:51 Right. Their finances were so inextricably linked together. And Emma was very concerned about providing for her family. And Brigham Young was very concerned about protecting the church. So there was a lot of tension that came up because of that. But, we’ll get to more about Emma on this charter.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 12:13 Also the Nauvoo period has a really interesting shift for Joseph, he receives less revelations during this period. There are 135 sections in our current Doctrine & Covenants that were written during Joseph’s lifetime, but only nine of those come from five years in Nauvoo. He kind of shifts from receiving revelation to public speaking, which is something that we don’t have the records of previously, but we do, he has scribes, they write down what he says. So that’s a little bit different in Nauvoo. And you’ll notice two of the sections are actually letters that he writes to the people of Nauvoo.

Hank Smith: 12:54 Okay. That is an interesting shift for him because we’ve seen him writing, writing, writing, and now it’s going to be sermons.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 13:03 Yeah, which we don’t have in the Doctrine and Covenants, unfortunately. It’s interesting he does preach six sermons, particularly to the women in the Nauvoo Relief Society. And those are in the Nauvoo Relief Society minutes and recorded by Eliza Arsenault as the secretary. I was talking to Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, a scholar in Latter-day Saint Women’s History. And she said she’s convinced that the Nauvoo Relief Society minutes should be part of the Doctrine & Covenants, which I think would be so awesome. Right?

Hank Smith: 13:40 Yeah. That’d be fantastic. Can you get access to those on your phone?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 13:45- Yes. You can. They’re in your Gospel Library App if you go under Church History and Restoration. They’re available there under the book, First Fifty Years of Relief Society. So they’re in there, but they’re also on the Joseph Smith Papers website.

Hank Smith: 14:05 This is fantastic. I’m going to go read these. I didn’t know they were there and I would… Here’s six sermons from Joseph Smith we don’t have [inaudible 00:14:13]. They’re not readily found right here in your Doctrines and Covenants.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 14:18 Yeah, they’re good. They’re good ones. Let’s talk a little bit about Section 125. That was kind of a historical context. So beginning in 1839, as the Saints are living in Missouri, many of them are settling on the Illinois side of the Mississippi River in and around Hancock County, but a smaller number settled in scattered communities across the river in the Iowa Territory. There’s been a lot of questions about the settlement and they’re very eager that the people gather closely together so they’re consolidated for safety reasons. And we saw what happened in Haun’s Mill, in Missouri. That was a settlement that was very isolated from other settlements. And so they’ve learned their lesson. We need to gather closely together.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 15:08 On May 24th, 1841, Joseph received revelation stating that all the approved stakes should be in Hancock County, in Illinois and Lee County in Iowa, and all other stakes were discontinued. So they’re reorganizing the boundaries.

Hank Smith: 15:28 The river is just between them, right?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 15:30 Yes. In August of 1841, a Church Conference was held in what Joseph named Zarahemla in this section. And there were 326 members of the Zarahemla Branch, and then 80 members of the Nashville Branch. I have to say, when I read Nashville, I was like, what Tennessee Grand Ole Opry?. What? But there were a total of 750 members in Iowa Stake, and the stake was formally organized on October 5th, 1839 with John-

Hank Smith: 16:03 So Nashville is Iowa?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 16:05 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 16:05 How many did you say were in the branch in Nashville? 326 in the Zarahemla bBranch. And how many in Nashville?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 16:13 80 in Nashville. There were a total of 750 members in the Iowa Stake. And that’s a really short section. There’s not a lot more I can tell you about that.

John Bytheway: 16:23 Jenny, I love this Section 126, because of the idea of taking care of your family. Sometimes I feel like the missionaries go off and leave their families in bad circumstances. And I think, wow, I’m glad we go now before we’re married and stuff like this, but what can you tell us to lead into Section 126?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 16:45 Wow. So Brigham Young, you’re absolutely right. And this is kind of a pattern that will continue well into Utah, where women are left to fend for themselves. So while this is given specifically to Brigham Young, I think it’s also given to Mary Ann, his wife. Again, I told you I wanted to bring in as many women as we can. She’s not listed there, but I love that this section recognizes the time that Brigham has spent away from home on several different missions. And the Lord has seen Brigham Young’s labor and toil in his journeys. So I like John love that he says,  “To take especial care of your family from this time.”

Hank Smith: 17:29 And he calls it “an offering.” This acknowledges what a sacrifice it was and it’s a sacrifice for his wife, right?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 17:39 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 17:39 Some of those stories I think leave your sick wife and 47 children behind and go on a mission and it’s like wow.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 17:47 Well, I’m going to tell you a little bit about Mary Ann. This is his second wife. His first wife Miriam Works died of consumption in 1832. And after that, because Brigham Young was going on missions as he was instructed by the Lord, Vilate Kimball took in his two daughters when Heber C. Kimball and Brigham Young went on a mission. Let’s shift to Mary Ann Angell. She is the daughter of this incredible woman, Phoebe Angell. I love Phoebe Angell. There’s a talk by Phoebe Angell in At the Pulpit. So if you want to learn more about the Angell family. Her dad wasn’t a great guy. He was very abusive of the family.

Hank Smith: 18:35 So no relation to Truman Angel,l nor the-

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 18:38 That’s her brother.

Hank Smith: 18:38 Oh, okay. Architect of Salt Lake temple?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 18:42 Mm-hmm (affirmative), and Nauvoo. She was baptized in 1832 when the Spirit bore witness to her, the truth of the origin of the book of Mormon. And she never doubted after that. She went to Kirtland in the spring of 1833. She became acquainted with Brigham Young and she felt drawn towards him when she heard him preach. And he was very impressed when he heard her testimony. They got married in early 1834, and she took care of Brigham Young’s children like the typical frontier wife. She kept the house and labored faithfully for the interests of the Young family, which meant taking care of things while he was on missions. Kind of like Emma. I think a lot of these ladies were really, thank goodness they were really converted and committed to do all of this on their own.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 19:38 So he served missions about half of the time of their first five years of marriage. In fact, shortly after they got married, he was gone for four months with Zion’s Camp, and he got home just in time for the birth of their first baby in October. But she raised Brigham Young’s daughters, Elizabeth and Vilate. They had that baby Joseph in 1834, and then they had twins, Mary Ann and Brigham. How cute is that, in 1836. And, let’s see.

Hank Smith: 20:13 She’s raising five kids at this point and her husband has been gone.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 20:19 All over the place.

Hank Smith: 20:20 He’s gone all over the place.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 20:22 Right. He comes back to Kirtland after one of his many missions. And there had been a lot of dissension there with the Kirtland Safety Society and all the issues going on with the church. And so he had to go into hiding. So the mobbers terrorized Mary Ann and her children. And when she finally was able to join Brigham Young in Far West in the spring of 1838, he was shocked at her condition. And he said this to her, “You look as if you were almost in your grave.”

Hank Smith: 20:56 Oh, my goodness.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 20:56 Which I don’t know if that was the nicest thing.

Hank Smith: 20:58 Yeah, I don’t know if that was-

John Bytheway: 21:00 Maybe, “It’s good to see you.” Yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 21:04 Right. I don’t know. There’s a couple of other things he could have said.

John Bytheway: 21:07 Wow.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 21:08 They didn’t last in Missouri for very long. In fact, it took them quite a while to leave Missouri and get to Illinois. It took them three months just because Brigham Young would go back and try to help other people that didn’t have help. So they stayed in 11 different homes in those three months as they were traveling to Illinois. And let’s just add this, because of course, she was pregnant.

Hank Smith: 21:32 Of course. Oh my word.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 21:35 So Brigham Young left on another mission to England. She had a 10-day-old baby and six children. And she was on the Iowa side. Two months later, she ran out of food. She would take her baby and go across the river to get potatoes and flour, and then go back to her family in Iowa. She did sewing and laundry for other people. Someone gave her a little plot of land in Nauvoo. So she would cross the river, plant her garden and come back home. Finally, I am not kidding you, she built a log cabin in Nauvoo with blankets hanging over the windows and doors.

Hank Smith: 22:21 Mary Ann Young. Oh my Gosh.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 22:23 Mary Ann. That’s right. Give her credit. Let’s say her name. Give her the credit she deserves. When Brigham Young returned to Nauvoo in July of 1841, he had been gone for 22 months, and he built a Red Brick Home that’s still standing in Nauvoo, but it wasn’t ready until May of 1843. Joseph Smith comes to this very humble log cabin that Mary Ann Young built and gives this revelation to Brigham Young.

John Bytheway: 22:58 And I love how it starts, dear and well beloved brother, Brigham Young. And it made me wonder, now is that Joseph talking, and then it’s fairly thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Brigham. So he’s got some good introductory titles there.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 23:14 Yeah, he does. He’s earned them, I think. And Mary Ann as well.

Hank Smith: 23:20 He also said, And Mary Ann, when I read verse two, “I have seen your labor and toil.” I think it’s going to be [inaudible 00:23:25].

John Bytheway: 23:25 Oh, I’m going, who’s the one laboring and toiling. I built a cabin while you were gone, Brigham. Oh goodness.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 23:32 With six kids.

John Bytheway: 23:33 Yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 23:34 She was very well known for being benevolent and hospitable in the extreme conditions and administering generous advice and assistance to those in need.

John Bytheway: 23:45 I’m really glad you talked about this because I think visitors to Nauvoo would see the Brigham Young Home and say, “Wow, he was living pretty good here.”

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 23:54 That’s a pretty nice house.

John Bytheway: 23:55 It’s a pretty nice house, but you hear this backstory and you think, okay, that’s, and you got to give it to Mary Ann Young, don’t you?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 24:04 Absolutely.

Hank Smith: 24:05 This mission Jenny that he leaves on that you just talked about, was that the Camp for Israel?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 24:11 Yes. He was very sick. He and Heber C. Kimball were very sick and they gave it everything.

John Bytheway: 24:18 So they were sick too.

Hank Smith: 24:20 And everybody in the home is sick.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 24:21 Mm-hmm (affirmative).

John Bytheway: 24:23 Can you tell us, you mentioned before his first wife died of consumption. That’s tuberculosis, is that right?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 24:29 It’s tuberculosis. And then they deal with the problems of malaria in Nauvoo of course.

John Bytheway: 24:36 Rivers and mosquitoes.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 24:38 Right. Swampy land.

John Bytheway: 24:39 Yeah, swamps.

Hank Smith: 24:41 That British mission that they go on, we don’t have to dive into this, but isn’t this a huge strength to the church over the next?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 24:50 Absolutely. In a lot of different ways. This provided leadership for the men that were serving missions, but then also the influx of immigrants from Britain became a huge part of the Church.

John Bytheway: 25:05 I think that when they do that British Pageant in Nauvoo, it kind of tells that story of how important that particular mission to the British Isles was. And was it Charles Dickens, the statement about, “The pick and flower of England,” that the converts to the Church were?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 25:23 Right.

John Bytheway: 25:25 What was he trying to say of a high-class nature or just not of no class, they were the pick and flower.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 25:33 Well, and it’s interesting because so many of them too were such poor people that had worked so hard in factories and the industrial revolution in England mills and all of that, but they were hard workers and they were anxious, not only to build Zion and be with the saints, but also for the American dream of being able to pull them themselves up by their bootstraps and make something of their lives that they could never have had those opportunities in England.

Hank Smith: 26:03 As I read this, I kind of chuckled that maybe Brigham and Mary Ann thought, “Oh, good. We can finally be done here for once”.

John Bytheway: 26:10 “Relax. We’ve done our Church service now.”

Hank Smith: 26:13 Brigham Young and Mary Ann Young are not going to rest or relax.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 26:19 No. Ever.

Hank Smith: 26:20 Because they knew what was coming, right? What was coming for them?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 26:24 Right. I’ve also heard that Mary Ann was an introvert. And interestingly enough, I know this is true. She never joined the Nauvoo Relief Society, which I don’t know why. I’ve never been able to figure that out.

Hank Smith: 26:38 As we are hitting, I’m looking at the dates here. And Jenny you’ll have to help me out, because we have March of ‘41, July of ‘41, and our next section is September ‘42. When is the Relief Society fall, when does it fall here?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 26:52 This is the perfect time to talk about the Relief Society. The Nauvoo Relief Society was officially organized on March 17th, 1842. The idea for the Relief Society started with Margaret Cook, who was a seamstress who worked for Sarah Kimball, who was kind of a wealthy woman. And she had noticed, and there was so much effort going into building the temple. And she had noticed the men working on the temple who were in great need of shirts. Now I have to say this, my friends on the Joseph Smith Papers joke that if they were going to make a video, a movie of the founding of the Nauvoo Relief Society, they would be happy to be the men working on the Nauvoo temple without their shirts on. And I’m like, no, no, no, we don’t want to see you without your shirts on.

Hank Smith: 27:51 That’s funny. Maybe that’s why we need the movie like, we’ve got to get those guys.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 27:55 Yeah, we’ve got to do something about this.

John Bytheway: 28:00 These are going to be Church History paintings one day. We better get some–

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 28:06 Yeah, Anthony Sweat probably already done one of the men.

Hank Smith: 28:09 Yeah, he probably has.

John Bytheway: 28:10 Oh, Frieberg wouldn’t touch this.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 28:13 Oh, but if he did, he might’ve made them look like real good, boy.

John Bytheway: 28:17 Yeah, they had some big dudes building that temple.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 28:21 Yeah. Anyway, they decided to create a sewing society, and this is a really popular thing. There were many women’s organizations around the country. They’d started as early as the late 1700s. Women would see a need and would create organizations to take care of the poor and from the sick. Sewing societies, missionary societies, this was a very common thing in America.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 28:56 They gathered a little group of their friends together in early March and decided that they would create an official society and give themselves legitimacy or authority by writing a constitution. One of the women at that sort of planning meeting was Phoebe Rigdon, the wife of Sidney Rigdon. She knew Eliza R. Snow. And she knew that Eliza had taught their family school in Quincy, our town Quincy. And she knew that Eliza had grown up. Her father had been a justice of the peace in Ohio and Eliza had been his secretary and kept his records. So she seemed like the smartest person to do this. They asked her to write a constitution for the sewing society. And this was Phoebe Rigdon and Sarah Kimball who went to her, and Sarah gave her, you guys, this is a cool story. Sarah gave her a little journal, a little book to write the constitution in.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 29:59 Later when they started the Nauvoo Relief Society, Willard Richards gave them a really nice big ledger. And Eliza just keeps that journal and she keeps her Nauvoo journal in there. It’s really cool. It’s one of those books you could flip upside down and start from the other side. And you see this beautiful illustration in it when it was given to Sarah Kimball who then gave it to Eliza who was supposed to write a constitution in it, but then she kept it for her own journal. And it’s her Nauvoo journal that gives us great information. Anyway-

Hank Smith: 30:33 Sarah Kimball, her husband’s not a member of the Church?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 30:36 Correct.

Hank Smith: 30:37 Sometimes we discount people who are not married to a member or are single, and yet here’s the beginnings of the longest standing organization in the world, and it was started by this woman whose husband, great guy, not a member of the Church.

John Bytheway: 30:54 You said Sarah Cleveland before? Yeah. it is Sarah Kimball

Hank Smith: 30:58 Yeah.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 30:58 She became the first counselor and her husband also was not a member. And then there’s Eliza R. Snow who was single.

Hank Smith: 31:05 Right. We should never discount someone because they’re not in what we think is an ideal, typical situation.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 31:14 Right.

John Bytheway: 31:14 I love to say that Mormon’s best work was done as a single adult at the end of the Book of Mormon, the last 10 chapters, “I have no kin, I have no family, I am alone.”

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 31:26 Oh, that’s so sad though. Come on.

Hank Smith: 31:28 Yeah. It reminds me of my high school days, but okay. I have no friends. I have nowhere to go.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 31:34 Well, John wrote the article about having no friends.

John Bytheway: 31:36 I’m the ones. Find it in the New Era, “I Have No Friends” by me.

Hank Smith: 31:40 By John Bytheway. Sorry to interrupt.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 31:44 That’s okay. So Eliza writes a constitution and she takes it to Joseph Smith because she wants to get his approval. And he looks at it and he says, this is the best constitution I’ve ever seen, but I have something better for you. And I want you to gather all these women and bring them to the second floor of Red Brick Store. And so a week later, on March 17th, 1842, you get 22 women gathered there and he organizes them after the order of heaven. And that’s a phrase we see quite a bit in the Doctrine and Covenants, and throughout Joseph Smith’s legacy. “After the order of heaven,” and after the pattern of the priesthood, Sarah Kimball remembers that he later said that the church was never fully organized until the women were organized. This really is a crucial part of the complete Restoration of the Church.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 32:41 So they talk a little bit about what they want to name the society. John Taylor thinks they should name it the Benevolent Society, but Emma was the one that was like, no, no, we’re not calling it the Benevolent Society because there was the Washingtonian Benevolent Society, and they were known for a lot of corruption. And she’s like, we in no way, want to be associated with them.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 33:06 She very early on sort of took the lead on this. She was elected or selected or voted in as president, which Joseph said came from her revelation in 1830, now Section 25, where she was the elect lady. And she was the proper one to lead the Relief Society. He later said that whenever the priesthood was organized on the earth, in any dispensation, when it was fully organized, the women were also organized. We can’t find that in the scriptures, but it makes sense to me. So I love that. So they created this incredible organization. Joseph Smith said that their purpose was twofold, to relieve the poor and to save souls. And I love that, because it’s a salvific organization. And Emma says on the very first day, she says, “We are going to do something extraordinary.”

John Bytheway: 34:04 Oh, it’s one of the best quotations ever.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 34:08 If there was a boat stuck on the rapids of the Mississippi River, we expect to be called to their rescue. We are going to do something extraordinary. We expect extraordinary occasions. I love it. And that is absolutely what happened. They had incredible opportunities to serve. I believe this because I felt it myself as a member of the Relief Society. I feel like when we go and provide relief to others, we find relief for ourselves.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 34:42 There was a period when I was called to be a Relief Society President in 2010. I was in graduate school living in Northern Virginia. And about six weeks after, it was a family ward, it was a huge ward. It was the Crystal City ward. For those of you to know the area. 800 people in the ward. And six weeks after my call, I was diagnosed with leukemia. And my Bishop said, “I really think we need to keep you in this calling. You have two very able counselors.” And it was true. I did. I had the best counselors. I was in the hospital for five weeks. And they even, this is before Zoom, in the olden days before Zoom.

Hank Smith: 35:30 The olden 2010-ish days.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 35:33 Yeah. The Elders Quorum President got a camera for my laptop and I participated in Ward Council from my hospital room. But I’ll tell you what, that was probably one of the things that saved my soul in the most horrible time of my life. Because I could have just curled up in a ball on my bed, but instead I had my laptop, I had my phone, I sent cards in the mail to people and people would come visit me, even less active people would come visit me because you can’t turn down a call to go visit a bald Relief Society President, right?

Hank Smith: 36:13 Yeah, like come visit.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 36:15 We have this great picture. We had to do a picture of our presidency for Ward History. We had presidency meetings in my bed. We have this picture and all of my sweet presidency put on hats so that we could all be, you can see our hair.

Hank Smith: 36:32 Relief Society President while being treated for cancer, leukemia.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 36:36 Yeah. Good times. It saved my life. Literally it saved my life.

Hank Smith: 36:43 I remember President Uchtdorf saying, ‘It’s often when we try to answer other people’s prayers that we find the answers to our own.” That sounds like that.

John Bytheway: 36:52 Oh, it reminds me of our friend Meg Johnson who’s a quadriplegic after a fall who said, “The doctors fixed me, but service healed me.” Her soul.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 37:08 It’s true. I remember a really hard day. I had the best compassionate service leader. So when I was home from the hospital, I had two years of chemo. My Compassionate Service leader would arrange rides for me to the hospital to get chemo or stupid spinal taps, which I hated. Terry Echo Hawk was the Stake Relief Society President. And I literally, I think I threw up in her car six times on the way.

Hank Smith: 37:33 Oh, my gosh.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 37:35 I had plastic bags, don’t worry. But one day it was just extremely hard. And I had roommates, but they were gone working during the day. So my compassionate service leader set up a calendar where someone would come visit me in the afternoon just to check in on me, make sure I was okay. And one day it was my sweet friend, Marion Anderson. And it had been a really hard day. And she just sat on the stairs with me, where I was sitting and she just cried with me and put her arm around me. And that was just what I needed, was someone just to be with me. And it was my Relief Society sister, and I’m so grateful for that. So I have a testimony of Relief Society.

Hank Smith: 38:21 Yeah. “We’re going to do something extraordinary.”

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 38:23 We are. In fact, I put that on my license plate cover

Hank Smith: 38:27 Oh, that’s great.

John Bytheway: 38:29 I love there’s so much of this in your book. It’s fun to hear it again about how it was organized and coming up with the name. And it was Emma who really pushed through the name “relief,” that wanted the relief in there. Right?

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 38:43 Yeah. Well, and just looking at Emma’s life at the time, it was organized on March 17th, 1842. In August of 1841, that’s six months, whatever, eight months before, she lost her 14 month old son, Don Carlos to malaria. And then in February she had a miscarriage and she found out her mother had died. I think the timing is so interesting because she needed this group of women and she needed a place where she could feel safe and she could feel loved. And it came.

Hank Smith: 39:25 Oh my goodness. And she hadn’t seen her mom.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 39:28 No. In fact, this kind of transitions into baptisms for the dead a little bit. See if you can follow my segue.

Hank Smith: 39:37 Okay. Let’s do it.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 39:37 So when Joseph and Emma left Harmony in the early fall of 1830, Emma said goodbye to her parents and never returned and broke off a relationship with them even. And I think on their way to Fayette, New York, which was quite a journey from Harmony. But I think it really reflects what the Lord told her in Section 25, that she should go with Joseph at his going.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 40:06 Now, this was hard. Her father didn’t approve of Joseph, and their family, the Hale family, was a very tight-knit family. And when her siblings got married, they all stayed in the area. And her father was just concerned about Joseph, not the fact that he was uneducated, because her sisters had married people that were uneducated and poor, but the fact that he worried that he would take his daughter away and that he wouldn’t be able to provide for his daughter. He was really concerned about that.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 40:40 In 1830, she said goodbye and never saw them again. And when she heard that her father passed away, which was sometime in 1841 or ‘42, ‘41 I think. Her nephew was living near Nauvoo. And so he came and told her the news and Emma immediately sat down and wrote a letter to her mother. And it was the first letter that she had written. She caught her up on all the kids that she had and that she lost. And she begged her and her siblings to come to Illinois. Even if they didn’t have to join the Church, she just needed family there. And her mother was too sick to come. So she died in Harmony. But I actually kind of, I love that Emma’s first baby died in Harmony and her parents were buried right next to that baby.

John Bytheway: 41:40 Oh, I didn’t know that.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 41:40 It’s so beautiful.

Hank Smith: 41:42 Yeah. If you go there today, there’s those great headstones-

John Bytheway: 41:43 It’s all been restored. That area really nicely has been…

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 41:47 It’s beautiful.

John Bytheway: 41:50 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 41:50 I never knew that she hadn’t written and then finally she wrote to her mom.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 41:57 Yeah. Actually next I wanna talk about baptisms for the dead, but immediately when Emma heard that her father had died, she did his baptism. She was baptized for him in the Mississippi River. And I love that. This is of course before the time when Brigham Young said, “Okay, you have to do it. It’s solely by gender.” But there’s some other great stories. And we know that Joseph Smith first taught that doctrine in August of 1840 at the funeral of Seymour Branson. So it’s interesting. We don’t have a revelation on that, but we do have two letters that came in. This is all going to come together in this really cool way. You guys just hold on to your seats.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 42:39 We don’t have revelation written down in the Doctrine and Covenants about baptisms for the dead, but we do have these two letters that come in September of 1841. This idea of losing people that hadn’t been baptized into the Church was really troubling for the Smith family because of the loss of their son and brother, Alvin. He was such a dear person to them and there were many others. One of the people that was in the congregation listening to this sermon by Joseph, remember how I told you that he gave more sermons and less revelations at this time. One of these women, she’s become one of my favorite women. Her name is Jane Nyman. And she and her husband were from Western Pennsylvania when they joined the church and they had their teenage son, Cyrus had died. And she and her husband all often talked about how they wished he could be baptized.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 43:38 So they moved to Nauvoo. They’re so poor. Her husband dies. They’re destitute. In fact, she later receives assistance from the Relief Society because they’re so poor. But as soon as she hears about baptisms for the dead, she’s the first person in this dispensation to be baptized for the dead. She goes out into the Mississippi river. So Jane Nyman was actually the first person in this dispensation to be baptized for the dead. And she went into the Mississippi River and was baptized for her son, Cyrus and the Vienna Jaques, who you’ve probably talked about before, rode her horse into the river to be the witness. So there’s our example of the first female witness. Isn’t it awesome that today women can be witnesses? And it’s just a beautiful story.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 44:32 Again, Emma was baptized for her father when he died, she was baptized for her mother and for her sister and some friends. But I would love to share some more women’s experiences if that’s okay with baptism for the dead. Phoebe Woodruff was living near Nauvoo when this talk was given by Joseph, this understanding of baptism. And her husband Wilford Woodruff was on a mission in England. And this is what she wrote to him. She said, “Brother Joseph has learned by revelation that those in this church may be baptized for any of their relatives who are dead and had not a privilege of hearing this gospel, even for their children, parents, brothers, sisters, grandparents, uncles, and aunts. As soon as they’re baptized for their friends, they are released from prison and they can claim them in the resurrection and bring them into the Celestial Kingdom. This doctrine is cordially received by the Church and they are going forward in multitudes. Some are going to be baptized as many as 16 times in one day.” They were so excited.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 45:43 And then Wilford Woodruff recorded that, “The moment I heard of it, my soul leaped with joy. I went forward and was baptized for all of my dead relatives I could think of. I felt to say, hallelujah, when the revelation came forth, revealing to us, baptism for the dead. I felt that we had a right to rejoice in the blessings of heaven.” It’s so beautiful.

John Bytheway: 46:07 And those quotations for our listeners are in our Come, Follow Me Manual. So page 191.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 46:17 They’re gorgeous.

John Bytheway: 46:17 Yeah. This is one of those doctrines that Joseph Smith said once that good doctrine tastes good. I can taste the spirit of eternal life. And so can you. This is one of those that you kind of hear it and you think, of course, the Lord would make a way for them to receive the blessing of the ordinance that never had a chance to hear it in this life. It’s one of those, well, of course, this fits. So it’s fun to hear their reaction. Imagine hearing that for the first time.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 46:44 Yeah. Did any of you guys see 1820: The Musical?

John Bytheway: 46:50 Yes.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 46:51 Oh my gosh. My favorite song, I think, well, maybe either first or second favorite, was after Joseph and Emma’s first baby died. And after the burial, Joseph came to Emma and said, “We have not lost our child, our child will be saved”, and they sing this incredible hallelujah praise song. A soul’s alive in Christ, I think is what it’s called. And that song is available. So any of you who have not heard it or do not have the soundtrack downloaded to your phones, you are going to want that because it is so joyous. I think it’s the same kind of joy that we’re seeing in these records here.

Hank Smith: 47:35 Yeah. I saw that show and I thought, this is that, I remember that song. I remember it like, “Oh, that’s such a beautiful moment.”

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 47:42 You can feel how happy they were to know that they hadn’t lost that baby forever.

Hank Smith: 47:48 Yeah. And contrasting that with, what does the preacher say at Alvin’s funeral, right?

John Bytheway: 47:52 Yeah. sorry.

Hank Smith: 47:54 “He’ll burn in hell. He’s an example to all of us.” Put those two side by side and it even tastes better, the truth.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 48:02 Right. It’s incredible. There’s some other accounts there in the Come, Follow Me Manual. Vilate Kimball writes to her husband Heber when he’s on his mission and she calls it a glorious doctrine. So it’s really, really, really exciting.

Hank Smith: 48:22 And that’s really the central message of these last two sections.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 48:25 Yes, it is.

Hank Smith: 48:26 Okay.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 48:27 It is. Let me tell you a little bit about what’s going on. Joseph Smith had to go into hiding. Let me give you a little background because this involves the Relief Society. The people in Missouri, the ex-governor, Lilburn Boggs, had wanted to extradite Joseph back to Missouri. And they all knew that was a death trap for him. So, Emma and the women of the Relief Society in August of 1842, wrote a petition and had thousands of people sign it and they took it. Here’s who took it to governor Thomas Carlin of Illinois in Springfield, Emma Smith, Eliza R. Snow and Amanda Barnes Smith.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 49:16 Now, this is so fascinating to me because these three women had experienced the tragedies of Missouri. Emma had her husband in prison. Eliza had a lot of stuff going on. Some sexual assault, most likely lost everything. Amanda Barnes Smith was a widow whose husband and son were killed at Haun’s Mill. And she had to deal with the repercussions of that in getting her family and a very injured son to safety in Illinois. These were three women that were very acquainted with the troubles of Missouri that took this petition to Governor Carlin.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 50:01 And he was very kind to them and very gracious. He said he would do everything he could to protect Joseph Smith. After they returned back to Nauvoo, Emma keeps up a correspondence with him. And these letters are now in the Community of Christ, a Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ in their archive in Independence, Missouri. And if you read these letters, she is smart as a whip. She knows the City Charter, she knows the State Charter, she knows the US Constitute, and she knows how to speak in a way that will appeal in the language of politics and policy. And she knows what she can demand. And I love it. She’s amazing.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 50:45 So despite this correspondence between the two of them, Governor Carlin didn’t keep his word and allowed people to come try to extradite Joseph. And so Joseph went into hiding.

Hank Smith: 51:01 Our listeners may not realize that there were once politicians who didn’t keep their word. I don’t know. That doesn’t happen today, but it may be shocking to everyone. It was the 1890s. It was a different time then.

Dr. Jennifer Re…: 51:15 I know. It was olden days. Before he went into hiding, Joseph met very briefly with the Relief Society on August 31st, 1842. And he said that, he talked about baptisms for the dead, because this is still going on. He says, “All persons baptized for the dead must have a recorder present that he may be an eyewitness to record and testify of the truth and validity of the record. It will be necessary in the grand counsel,” that’s in air quotes, “that these things be testify.” And so then, just the next day he writes a letter that is now section 127.

Hank Smith: 51:57 Please join us for Part II of this podcast.