John Bytheway: 00:03 Welcome to Part II of this week’s podcast.

Hank Smith: 00:07 If you look at verse five, he just has three little words here that Princess Elsa made famous, but he just says, “Let them go.” Right?

John Bytheway: 00:17 “Let it go.”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 00:18 Yes.

Hank Smith: 00:18 Let it go. Just stop. And our lives can become consumed with things.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 00:25 Yes.

Hank Smith: 00:25 Stuff, right? I’ve got to have the latest and greatest. And I think the Lord would say that to all of us. Just let it go. Stop worrying about stuff and toys and things. It’s all mine. Look what he says. “The fowls of the heaven, the fish of the sea, the beast of the earth. I made everything. Focus on me, all that other stuff, let that go. I can bring…” Look at what does He say in verse seven? “I can make the solitary places bud, blossom, and bring forth in abundance.” Now, that is a good little check for someone like me. I know neither of you are covetous, but that sometimes happens to me.

John Bytheway: 01:05 Well, if you get the Ford F-150 can I borrow it? That’s-

Hank Smith: 01:12 It won’t be any fun because then we won’t be looking. I think part of the fun is just, that’s a good one. We should get that one. No, I want red. No, I want black.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 01:22 So if I could be a little bit personal here, because this is really touching my heart, as I’m thinking about this. In the beginning, John mentioned that I was born in Haiti, right, which is known as the third poorest country. Sorry, not the third, but the poorest country in the Western hemisphere, and still continues to be. And there’s so many difficult things that have happened with political unrests, and-

Hank Smith: 01:48 Storms, and hurricanes-

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 01:49 And diseases and so forth, and hurricanes, natural disasters. But I was reading about how the Saints are finding strength amidst those difficult moments, and amidst those trials, and how the temple, being able to go to the temple. And remembering that this is, like it says in verse eight, that this is but a drop for the Lord, some of the things that sometimes may seem to be very important, and not to neglect the more weighty matters. I just love that. So in my personal life, when we came to Montreal, after a little while, my parents were divorced and my mom was raising five children in a foreign country.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 02:46 So, she was always a good example. And we weren’t members of the Church at that time, but she was always a good example to focus on what mattered. Growing up, we couldn’t afford the fancy shoes, or the fancy pair of pants, or whatever it is. And she would remind us, but what we have helped sustain us, we do have food. It may not be the best food, but we have food. We have a roof over our heads, and it may not have been the nicest place. We were always renting, and it was usually in the basement or the lower floor of where it was a little bit more affordable.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 03:25 You think about this, and then decades have passed, and the Lord has kept his promise. He’s blossomed us. And he’s… Because of the sacrifice of my mom and also my dad. He’s provided for us. And I can testify that the Lord does make dry places blossom. And I can also testify that when we focus on what matters most, according to the eyes of the Lord, he takes care of the rest. That’s been my experience. And I’m not talking about that we’re becoming. That people become rich, and they have everything that they need, but they do have sufficient for their needs. And they do have hope of a better day, and those are priceless. Those are treasures.

Hank Smith: 04:18 Yeah, that was beautiful. I mean look what the Lord himself says in verse eight, “What is all this stuff? If there’s not enough room on the whole planet that I can give you, that you should covet that, which is but the drop.”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 04:37 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 04:37 Such an interesting phrase. This might be a good time to mention the Come, Follow Me Manual has a few ideas for Family Home Evening or family scripture study. It says, “Your family could compare a drop with something more weighty, like a jug of water. This could lead to a discussion about less important things in our lives that might prevent us from receiving God’s abundant blessings.” And I think with so many things, I think that’s a challenge a lot of us have, is not between good and evil, but between so many good things, and how do I choose the best things? The more weightier matters. And let the drops go by, I guess.

Hank Smith: 05:17 Right, the idea of good, better, best, right?

John Bytheway: 05:20 Yeah. President Oaks’ talk about that. What is the best use of my time? Because there’s a lot of good causes out there, but what would the Lord… President Eyring blessed me a lot when he gave a talk and he said, “You might have a heavy calling, whatever, and you might even complain.” And that was a prophecy about me. “You may realize, I can’t do it all.” And then, ah, this was such a blessing to me. He said, “So instead of wondering, ‘Lord, how do I do it?’ I’ll just ask, ‘What do I do next?'”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 05:59 Oh, I love that.

John Bytheway: 06:00 That was so helpful to me, because I… Yeah, Lord, I can’t do it all. Period. So what do I do next? And maybe that helps us distinguish the drop from the weightier matters.

Hank Smith: 06:11 Yeah. I have to say something about verse 11, because we are big fans of Newel K. Whitney, at the followHIM Podcast. And it says, “Let my servant, Newell K. Whitney, be ashamed of the Nicolaitane band and of all their secret abominations, and his littleness of soul before me, saith the Lord.” He says, “Come up to the land of Adam-ondi-Ahman and be a bishop.” Wow. That’s a Peter-like rebuke that the Lord just gave to Newel K. Whitney. John, you know a little bit more about this Nicolaitane band than I do, tell me about it.

John Bytheway: 06:52 Yeah, I read about it in Sister Susan Easton Black’s book. And she said, “In the New Testament era, Nicolaitanes were followers of Nicholas, one of seven disciples appointed to supervise the distribution of food and goods to the poor. See Acts 6:5. Christian tradition suggests that Nicholas failed to fulfill his appointment, and apostatized. Tradition further suggests that Nicholas established a religious sect with followers known as Nicolaitanes. Nicolaitanes held that it was lawful to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit fornication in direct opposition to the decrees of God. See Acts 15:20 and 29. False beliefs and immoral actions spawned by such beliefs led to impurities within early Christianity. Elder Bruce R. McConkie equated Nicolaitanes with members of the Church who are trying to maintain their church standing, while continuing to live after the manner of the world.”

Hank Smith: 07:51 Wow.

John Bytheway: 07:52 So that’s a… And I just wondered, did Newel K. Whitney, did he mark this verse in his Doctrine and Covenants? I mean, that is really hard to have that in there. And I’d love what the Lord said. “Be a bishop unto my people, not in name, but in deed.” Is it to be  a nominal member, or are you a member in your deeds? Not just in a title, but in your deeds. And that’s… And haven’t we noticed this? Hank confronts a lot of people in the Doctrine and Covenants, to have this… I mean, and Joseph himself… to have it published how many times the Lord has to forgive him of his sins?

Hank Smith: 08:33 Yes.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 08:34 Yes.

John Bytheway: 08:34 And it softens my heart about all of them, to think boy, they were just folks like us, just trying to do the best they can.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 08:43 Yes. You know, John and Hank, what I really like about this also is, the Lord doesn’t mince words on this one. Yeesh.

John Bytheway: 08:52 No.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 08:54 I tell you what, he did not mince his words in this one. But then after this he says, “Okay, be a bishop unto my people.” He could have said, “Okay, I’m going to find someone else that has a bigger soul than you do.”

John Bytheway: 09:10 He could have said, “You are hereby released,” but he didn’t.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 09:12 That’s exactly right. But the Lord, and we’re talking about that he was not, he was upset against their secret combinations. And I don’t know what that means exactly. But the Lord says, “Hey, be a bishop unto my people.” It’s like, he put it behind him. He says, “You showed a lot of littleness of soul before me, but just be a bishop in deed.”

John Bytheway: 09:39 There probably isn’t a bishop out there who doesn’t feel inadequate at times. And it gives hope to them as well, to say, “Keep going and just be a bishop. And you’re forgiven, but be a bishop.” Maybe that could give some hope to them.

Hank Smith: 10:00 It tells me also that the Lord’s love includes high standards. He will, right? Sometimes we think, “Oh, if someone loves me, then they don’t have expectations for me,” right? “They’ll let me be whoever I am. It’s who I am. It’s how I was born, right?” Instead, the Lord says, “No, I have high standards for you because I love you. Now, let’s get back on track.”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 10:24 Yes. Thank you, Hank, for saying that. Thank you for saying that.

Hank Smith: 10:27 Yeah. And Bishop Whitney dies faithful in the Church. So even though the Lord called him out publicly in the Doctrine and Covenants, he stuck around, right?

John Bytheway: 10:37 Yeah. “You and your secret abominations and littleness of soul.” Ugh! Ouch.

Hank Smith: 10:45 It reminds me of in the New Testament where Peter goes to rebuke the Lord, right? And to tell him, “No, you’re not going to die. You’re not going to suffer.” And he says, “Get behind me, Satan.”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 10:57 Yes.

Hank Smith: 10:58 Wow.

John Bytheway: 10:59 Let’s see, which insult could be worse?

Hank Smith: 11:03 Yeah. I was going to say, of all the names you don’t want Jesus to call you. That’s got to be in the top few.

John Bytheway: 11:07 I think Peter was constantly getting corrected and that’s because the Lord loved him. It just… And you’re going to lead the Church, and I’m just going to keep letting you know what’s right. But Peter was amazing.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 11:22 And John that’s the message for me in all this, and I think Hank said it too. The Lord loves us enough to correct us, and he doesn’t mince words. But when we listen by the power of the Spirit, we can feel where we’re coming short a little. And then the Lord won’t just say, “Okay, you’re you have littleness of soul,” and leave it at that. He’ll actually say, “Now be a bishop in deed.” So he gives them an instruction on how to overcome that weakness, I think. So it’s very instructive.

Hank Smith: 11:59 Yeah. It is. And for all the teenagers listening, who have parents who have high expectations, it’s a form of love. I’m hoping my kids are listening to this. High expectations are a form of love. And so is forgiveness, and an understanding. Because he seems to be understanding, like, “Yes, this is something that you’re struggling with. I’m going to help you through it. Get back up.”

John Bytheway: 12:24 And I think, Hank, if I can add to that, it’s not, “Why can’t you be more like Edward Carter?” And I, with teenagers in particular, I love to tell my kids, “The Lord wants you to be the very best version of you that you can be, and he’ll help you be that. You don’t have to look sideways at your friends, even your siblings, why can’t I be more like them? And we’re not going to say that to you. But be the best version of yourself.” I love that’s what patriarchal blessings invite us all to do, is here’s your gifts, your talents, and rise up and be the best version of yourself, and the Lord’s going to be there and help you do that.

Hank Smith: 13:06 Yeah, that’s beautiful.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 13:07 Yeah. I love that. One of the highlights for me beside verse 11 is verse 12.

Hank Smith: 13:14 Oliver Granger. a slightly different message.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 13:18 Oh, it’s a very different message.

Hank Smith: 13:19 Than Newel K. Whitney.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 13:21 Yes, I know. And again, I love what he says. And again, I say unto you, I remember my servant Oliver Granger. Behold verily, I say unto him that his name shall be had in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord.” And then in verse 13, “Therefore, let him contend earnestly for the redemption of the First Presidency of my Church, saith the Lord; and when he falls, he shall rise again, for his sacrifice shall be more sacred unto me than his increase, saith the Lord.” So that was such a impactful verse to me. And I remembered when I was studying this, that in October 2004, President Boyd K. Packer gave a talk, titled “The Least of These.” And in that talk, he says, “Today, this prophecy has been fulfilled. The prophecy of Oliver Granger, his name would be in remembrance from generation to generation.”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 14:33 He says, “Today, this prophecy has been fulfilled.” So let me share with you a little bit of that talk, if that’s okay. He says, President Packers says, quote, “Let no one underestimate the power of faith in the ordinary Latter-day Saints. There is a message for Latter-day Saints in a seldom-quoted revelation given to the prophet Joseph Smith in 1838. ‘I remember my servant Oliver Granger. Behold, verily I say unto him that his name shall be held in sacred remembrance from generation to generation, forever and ever, saith the Lord.’ Oliver Granger,” President Packer said, “was a very ordinary man. He was mostly blind, having lost his sight by cold and exposure. The First Presidency described him as a man of the most strict integrity and moral virtue, and in fine to be a man of God. When the Saints were driven from Kirtland, Ohio, in a scene that would be repeated in Independence, Far West, and in Nauvoo, Oliver was left behind to sell their properties for what little he could.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 15:41 There was not much chance that he could succeed, and really he did not succeed. But the Lord said, ‘Let him continuously for the redemption of the First Presidency of my Church, said the Lord; and when he falls, he shall rise again, for his sacrifice shall be more sacred unto me than his increase, said the Lord.’ What did Oliver Granger do that his name should be held in sacred remembrance? Nothing much really. It was not so much what he did, as what he was.” Oh my goodness. This really touched me. Oliver Granger had become Christ-like. He failed in his assignment, but he had become like unto Christ. And now, today, 2021, we’re remembering him. We are talking about this man, and right now, and hoping that we’re learning from this normal man with significant physical ailments, having become like Christ, and the Lord dedicating two verses to this wonderful man.

John Bytheway: 16:58 Do you know, you used two words there. You used the word become twice, what he has become. And I think a talk that has blessed me so much was I think then-Elder Dallin H. Oaks in October of 2000. Do you remember that talk, “The Challenge to Become?” And I think we all have a lot of maybe some Law of Moses in our spiritual DNA. And we’re wondering about our check marks are good, or bad check marks about what we do. And the emphasis here that you just gave, Frantz, is what had he become? And that was Elder Oaks’ whole talk. It’s not enough just to know what to do, or even to do what we know, it’s are you becoming what we’re supposed to become? Which is a beautiful thought. And Oliver had become, Oliver Granger had become Christlike, as you said, and that’s the goal. Are we becoming more like the savior? That’s the hard question, too.

Hank Smith: 17:55 And the Lord, I think, teaches a wonderful principle in verse 13, that I can take a failure and make it sacred, right? Like a lot of us, I have friends and family members who have had long marriages end in divorce, and you can almost hear the Lord saying this in verse 13, “When he falls, he will rise again for his sacrifice, or his failure there, will be more sacred unto me than his increase.” I just hear a wonderful principle of, it’s not a failure to me, because you’re becoming something which I wanted you to become. So I just think that man, that’s a beautiful idea.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 18:41 And Hank, back in the day, over a decade ago, I remember going through some very difficult times. And I remember sitting down during a sacrament meeting, and feeling that I was useless. I felt that I was having difficulties making ends meet for my family. We had five kids. I wasn’t feeling successful at work. I felt alone. I didn’t feel that I had a lot of friends. And I remember sitting in sacrament meeting and just saying, “What’s my purpose here? What am I doing here?” And I was trying to keep the commandments of the Lord, but I was failing miserably in a lot of aspects of my life, and it was very difficult for me. I remember stepping out of that third hour, walking out, and my bishop stopped me in the hall. And bless, bless, bless this bishop for who he is. But he stopped me in the hall and he said… Sorry.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 20:08 He said, “How are you?” I told him I felt useless, it didn’t matter too much. And he said, “Brother Belot, the Lord has given you many, many talents. Hang in there. Things will get better.” I was grateful for that. The moment was perfect. The Lord was aware of this man who felt lost, who felt that he didn’t have a purpose, who felt that he was not measuring up, that he was failing. And the Lord simply said through his bishop, “I have given you many talents, just keep at it.” And now I see those days and I feel humble. Things have changed significantly in my life, but I remember those days where the Lord supported me. And to your point, Hank, I felt that a little bit that my sacrifices had become sacred to him, although I was failing. So forgive me for being personal, but this brought a memory to me.

Hank Smith: 21:37 No, that’s beautiful. I haven’t even seen those verses in that light before, and I love it. John?

John Bytheway: 21:44 I’m glad you shared that, because sometimes we think that, well, if you have the church and the gospel, then there’s no reason to ever feel worthless. But even those of us who are serving sometimes feel that way. And there are probably many people who could relate to that feeling, that have been blessed by what you just said. That even when we know we’re in the Lord’s Church, and we’re where we’re supposed to be, and trying to do what we’re supposed to be doing, sometimes we wonder if we matter. So thank you for sharing that, because I think a lot of people will benefit from, you just keep going. The Lord has given you talents, and you press forward.

Hank Smith: 22:29 It’s such a good moment. I don’t want to pass it by, but I do want to keep going here into Section 118. We get to talk about our Twelve Apostles.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 22:37 Section 118 is so positive. And we know that that took place because of the apostasy, and the apostles that left the Church, and the new ones. And the Lord is talking to them, talking to those men who are coming to the apostleship. I don’t know if they were bewildered, if they were surprised, but he’s giving them instructions, he’s talking to them directly. In verse one, if we could start, it says, “Verily, doth saith the Lord: Let a conference be held immediately; and let the Twelve be organized; and let men be appointed to supply the place of those who are fallen.” And nowhere in that scripture, do I see, “And let perfect men be appointed to supply the place of those who are fallen.”

Hank Smith: 23:36 We looked, but we couldn’t find any.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 23:39 That’s exactly right. He said, “Let them be appointed,” and He gives them instruction. And I love verse three, “Let the residue continue to preach from that hour, and if they will do this in all lowliness of heart, in meekness and humility, and long-suffering, I, the Lord give unto them a promise that I will provide for their families; and an effectual door shall be opened for them, from henceforth.”

Hank Smith: 24:08 Can you imagine getting that kind of call? Verse five, “Let them take leave of my saints in the city of Far West, on the 26th day of April next.” That goes back to what we talked about earlier with the story of Brigham Young, and Isaac Russell, and Theodore Turley. This is where the Lord says, “You’re going to leave for your mission from Far West next year.” And this is where Brigham comes back and says, “We got to fulfill that prophecy.”

Hank Smith: 24:37 And you said this earlier, Frantz, but we should say it again, that the amazing names that come out of, that get added to the Twelve because of the apostasy. John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff, Willard Richards is going to be in Carthage Jail with the prophet. These are some incredible names who come out of such a terrible time, such a dark, terrible time for the Church. I think that that is… I think that’s crucial to understand, that the Lord can turn something so dark and difficult into something… an opportunity, future opportunity and happiness. John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff I don’t know if you guys know, but they have some impact on the future of the Church.

John Bytheway: 25:26 Those names seem to ring a bell to me, yeah.

Hank Smith: 25:30 I just think it’s an absolutely beautiful idea. Because we have a lot of listeners, I’m sure, who are going through difficult, hard times as we just talked about. And the message, I think, of this, is the work moves forward, and I can actually bring some future, what, opportunity? Understanding? Future happiness? Through who comes in to replace those who have fallen. So I just think it’s a very hopeful section.

John Bytheway: 26:02 Frantz?

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 26:03 Yes, I think so too. And I love you saying this, because it’s also about families, right? We know that these men that were called, were called to go and preach the gospel, and they were leaving behind them their wives and their children. And it’s not that they had a fat bank account that could take care of those women. So after the Young family’s arrival, Joseph received an unpublished revelation instructing Brigham that he was to leave his family again. And then in Section 118, the Lord is reminding Brigham and the other apostles that he’ll provide. But then notice this. It says, “During those nine months provided proof to be anything but restful, when the apostles were gone.” The Saints in Missouri were driven from their homes, right? Once again, Brigham Young was in danger as one of the most wanted Church leaders. The Young family fled together, but they traveled short distances and then waited while Brigham went back to assist other destitute Saints.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 27:14 Mary Anne recalled that by… the wife of Brigham Young… recalled that by the time they reached safety on the other side of the Mississippi River in Illinois, she had kept house in 11 different places within three months. She was also pregnant. So the history talks a lot about the great apostles, their faith and so on, but they were supported by the Mary Annes of the world, right? They had wonderful women that had faith, and those women worked physically to exhaustion. They were not only carrying babies at this moment, just like Mary Anne, but they were moving from house to house, carrying their things while their husband was preaching the gospel. I mean, this is the rich history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It’s the story of sacrifices of women that have given so much to allow their husband, at least on the Quorum of the Twelve, to do what they needed to do to build a kingdom. And then meanwhile, they were taking the bulk of raising the children and providing for them. Hence, the Lord says, “I will provide for your family.” I mean, it’s significant.

John Bytheway: 28:37 Did you say 11 different houses in three months?

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 28:41 That is correct. Yeah. That’s what the Revelations in Context, historically, that’s what happened.

Hank Smith: 28:49 Wow. And that’s, I mean… And when it comes to missionary work, Brigham Young is going to be… It’s going to be hard to match, right? Brigham is crossing over to England over the next couple of years, he’s going to spend a lot of time on the East Coast of the United States. So I love that. We need to talk about the Mary Annes of the Church. Very much Brigham’s equal in sacrifice and work.

John Bytheway: 29:22 It’s just, it’s humbling. I just keep thinking of, I think it was President Harold B. Lee that said, “Today, we have the test of gold. We have abundance. It gives us whole new ideas of things to complain about.” And there, the physical trials that they’re doing. Like you said, Frantz, so she had to move her children across the river.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 29:47 Yes.

John Bytheway: 29:47 Without a husband there.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 29:49 That’s exactly right.

John Bytheway: 29:50 Yeah. These women were awesome.

Hank Smith: 29:54 One of my good friends, his name is Lynn. It seems like he spent his entire life on this stand. I think he got home off a mission, and they made him a General Authority pretty much in my mind. And you talk to his wife, Haley, and that is not an easy thing to do. To never sit by your husband at Church, to have a husband gone a lot on Sunday, and Tuesday night, and Saturday morning. And that is a rough spot to be in. So the Mary Annes and the Haleys out there, yeah. We want to recognize that.

John Bytheway: 30:33 I used to say to my wife, when I left for stuff when I was Bishop, “Bye everybody, I’m going to talk to others about the importance of families.” And somebody said once, “We’re married for eternity, but separated for life.”

Hank Smith: 30:53 John, you probably remember me telling you about the bishop who fell asleep in his driveway, and his wife had to come knock on his window to wake him up at midnight.

John Bytheway: 31:05 I have an appointment.

Hank Smith: 31:06 Yep. Yep. Yep. That’s Frantz Belot.

John Bytheway: 31:08 Really?

Hank Smith: 31:09 That is Frantz Belot. That’s him.

John Bytheway: 31:09 Wow.

Hank Smith: 31:12 Yeah, I’ve told this story before. And he said, “You know, I am never tired of his work, but I am sure tired in his work.” Do you remember telling me that?

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 31:21 Yes. Yes.

Hank Smith: 31:21 You fell asleep in your driveway.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 31:23 Yes, I did.

Hank Smith: 31:23 You said, “I just got home from being bishop. I put the car in park. Just decided to close my eyes, just for a minute.”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 31:32 Yeah. And then I fell asleep.

Hank Smith: 31:32 Right? And then Brandy’s knocking on the door. He fell asleep. It was like midnight. “Are you coming inside?” “Sorry, sorry. I just closed my eyes for a second, and it turned into hours.”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 31:44 For a second, yeah.

Hank Smith: 31:45 But you said, “I get tired in His work. I don’t get tired of His work.”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 31:51 Yes. That’s correct, that’s what I said.

Hank Smith: 31:52 And then today, it’s like that day of rest thing. A day of rest, “Nah, not exactly.” But resting from worldly things, yes.

John Bytheway: 32:01 Yeah.

Hank Smith: 32:02 But a different kind of day of rest. That’s a great story. I have a Branch Office here in my driveway, so.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 32:10 So Section 119, this is the tithing section, right? This is the Lord wanting to get the work done, and he’s requiring Saints to contribute. And he doesn’t want them to be in debt anymore. And he’s promising them that there will be blessings. But it’s a wonderful section in understanding, I call this the “Economy of the Lord,” which mathematically doesn’t work at times, but spiritually, oh my goodness, yields all of the blessings that he says that it will yield. So I love that section. The beginning is very, again, the first verse, “Verily doth saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion.” Now we have to understand a little bit of what’s happening here. It was not a common thing. I mean sure, in different religions, they would pass the whatever it is, so that you can collect. Exactly, pass the plate. But this one is saying any surplus that you have, you need to put it in the hands of the bishop.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 33:36 So it was a new revelation obviously, but it was also sobering to think that I am going to give, and I’d like to use my surplus to do other things, but now I’m giving that to the Church to build the kingdom. The Lord says, “For the building in mine house and for the laying of the foundation of Zion and for the priesthood,” in verse two, “and for the debts of the Presidency of my Church.” And I could see some members saying, “Well, they’re the ones who got into debt. I didn’t. So why do I have to provide for that?” So I can see people seeing this, and maybe I’d be wanting to say something like this and hopefully repent quickly. But the Lord is asking them to be very selfless, to provide in the tithing, but again, like anything else, whatever the Lord asks, there are blessings that are attached to that. And I think that’s what we learn in that section. Not only the request that may have been difficult for some, but also the blessings that come from that.

Hank Smith: 34:47 Yeah. I keep coming back to, John, do you remember when it was Dr. Farnes, almost-Dr. Farnes, Sherilyn Farnes, who’s finishing up her PhD. She quoted Edward Partridge, and this has not left me. I’ve repeated it in my mind a lot since then, when he said, quote, “I am willing to spend and be spent in the cause of my Master.” And tithing, I think, is part of that. I am willing to spend and be spent in the cause of my Master. Both of you have served as bishop. Being on the intimate side of this, this is not an easy law to keep for some. For some people it’s an easy law to keep, right. For my wife, it’s easy. That’s why she does it. Not because-

John Bytheway: 35:38 Yeah. And I wish all of the commandments were this easy and mathematical, this easy to keep.

Hank Smith: 35:45 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 35:45 But I think that something that was very time-consuming, but was really a refuge from the storm for me, was tithing settlement. Where faithful members who simply did their duty, and kept moving forward, and some of them, it was the only time I saw them annually, because they were just out there faithfully doing their duty. Tithing settlement was just an enriching, refuge from the storm, we’re in this together type experience. And to have people… It just said something about their testimony of Jesus Christ and everything else when tithing was… they were a full-tithed pair. I knew that so many other things were okay. How do I say that? Am I saying that okay?

Hank Smith: 36:39 Yeah, I think so.

John Bytheway: 36:40 And so a lot of times I was meeting with folks with a lot of problems, and that’s part of why you’re there, you’re there to help be… to heal, and to encourage, and so forth. And so tithing settlement was a real fun thing to meet with everybody, and how you are doing, and how’s your family, and I’m so glad you’re firm in the faith, and keep going. So I don’t know, when I think of that as a bishop, I think of tithing settlement and how wonderful that was. And things have changed structurally, dramatically, since tithing went online.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 37:16 And John, thank you for sharing that. Those were some of my most precious times, it was to be at the tithing settlement. I do remember a singular experience I had with a sister that was in the early seventies. And I said, Sister So-and-so, and she was a widow. ” And I said, “Sister So-and-so, why is it that you’re paying your tithing? Why is it that you’ve been faithful all through those years?” And then she says, “Bishop, the Lord has given me everything.” That’s all she said to me. “The Lord has given me everything.” And I was touched by that. That deep understanding that the earth belongs to the Lord.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 38:10 He provides us with breath. He provides us with opportunities, with health, and in return, not even in return, he’s asking us to give 10% of our increase, to do what? To bless other people. As if he really needs the money, right? It’s but a drop. It’s insignificant to the Lord. But it’s to bless others and also to bless us. And if I can share with you something from David Bednar, from General Conference, October 2013, I think he says it more eloquently, like usual, than I can. But he says, “As we live the law of tithing, we often receive significant but subtle blessings that are not always what we expect, and easily can be overlooked. The family,” speaking of his family, “had not received any sudden or obvious additions to the household income. Instead, a loving Heavenly Father had bestowed simple blessings, in seemingly ordinary ways.”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 39:21 “Often,” Elder Bednar continues, “As we teach and testify about the Law of Tithing, we emphasize the immediate, dramatic, and readily recognizable temporal blessings that we receive, and surely such blessings do occur. Yet some of the diverse blessings we obtain as we are obedient to this commandment are significant, but subtle. Such blessings can be discerned only if we are both spiritually attentive and observant.” The Law of Tithing has helped me personally, have more compassion towards my brothers and sisters. I’m talking about not only the ones that are destitute, but also the ones that have riches. I’ve learned through the Law of Tithing to be more compassionate towards people. That was a spiritual blessing I received.

Hank Smith: 40:12 As I’ve been teaching tithing through the years and trying to help my students understand the blessings of tithing, I ran into a little analogy that I just love. So John, you’ve done tours of the Holy Land, so have I, and this is something I share when we get out there and we see both the Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea. We visit both of them, and people get to see the difference, right? And there is a big difference between the Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea. Now they’re both beautiful, but one is more lush and green, and has life in it, and the other is pretty dead. So this was, I think, a pastor who made this analogy. He said, “The Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea are made of the same water. It flows down clean and cool from the heights of Hermon and the roots of the Cedars of Lebanon.

Hank Smith: 41:18 “The Sea of Galilee makes beauty of that water, because it has an outlet. It gets to give. It gathers in its riches, that it may pour them out again to fertilize the Jordan plain. But the Dead Sea, with the same water makes horror, for the Dead Sea does not give. It has no outlet. It gets to keep.” And I just liked that idea that paying your tithing will make your life richer, more beautiful, right? And like you said, Frantz, this isn’t about an amount of money. This is about, I don’t know, the beauty of giving, right? And the Lord wants us to experience the beauty of giving. And for me personally, I, and I know neither of you are this way, but I need a check very frequently, at least once a month or once a year, saying, “Do you love me more than money, Hank? Let’s check this one more time. Do you love me more than money?”

Hank Smith: 42:19 “Yes, I do.” “Okay. Prove it. Do you love me more than money?” I don’t think the Lord needs my money, but I need that check. I need that, I don’t know, that warning in place, because for me, the love of money can become very important. And so the Lord says, “I’m going to put a little system in place to make sure that never overtakes things.” Because money’s important, right? Money is crucial to us and our survival. But man, if it becomes our love, if it becomes more important than the Lord, it really will destroy lives, destroy marriages, destroy families. And so the Lord has kept this, I don’t know. I think the Lord put tithing in place for me… Yeah. A moment where the Lord just says, “I’m going to let you decide every month and every year if you love me more than money.” And I have a wife who helps me love the Lord more than money, right? Because she,

John Bytheway: 43:16 More than Ford F-150s.

Hank Smith: 43:20 Oh, don’t bring it up. John.

John Bytheway: 43:23 My natural man comes out because when I’ve been at tithing settlement, I remember once saying it is 10%, I wish it was more, but it’s 10%. But my dad wrote me a letter when I was on my mission in the Philippines, and he joined the Church when he was 24. And the missionaries, I guess, they had read Malachi to him. This idea of, “I will open you the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it,” which is an amazing promise and a poetic promise.

John Bytheway: 43:58 And my dad started paying tithing as an investigator, to kind of test the principle. And I didn’t know that until I got this letter, but he was paying tithing while investigating the church to see if it would work. And it did. We never had a Ford F-150, but… And I want to go back to what Frantz said about this woman who said, “The Lord has given me everything.” I just had a reference, Genesis 28:22, “This stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house. And of all that thou shalt give unto me, I will surely give the tenth unto thee.”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 44:39 I think that’s beautiful. Another thing that’s coming to mind is, as a member of the Church, I asked myself, “What does the Lord do with the tithing,” right? I mean, there’s millions and millions of members, and they faithfully contribute the tithes, because much like we’ve heard in the last five, 10 minutes or so, the blessings of tithing are bounteous, really. It could be physical, it could be… But it sanctifies us. So during the talk of Elder Bednar, he helped me understand a little bit more. And I think that it’d be good for some of the audience to understand, well, what… from an apostle… What is that? So if I can quote this, he says, “I remember and think of each of you,” speaking of the members who are faithful and paying their tithe.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 45:39 He says, “Each time I participate in the council on the disposition of the tithes.” And then he says, “The leaders of the Lord’s church feel a tremendous responsibility to care appropriately for the consecrated offerings of church members. We are keenly aware of the sacred nature of the widow’s mite.” And then he says, “I know from firsthand experience that the council of the disposition of the tithes is vigilant and caring for the widow’s mite. I express appreciation to President Thomas S. Monson,” who was a prophet then, “and his counselor, for their effective leadership in discharging this holy stewardship. And I acknowledge the voice and hand of the Lord that sustained his ordained servants in fulfilling the duty to represent him.” So in that council, Elder Bednar expresses that there’s a lot of discussion. Where do we put the money that the members have worked so hard, to build the kingdom of God? Because that’s the purpose of it.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 46:51 And then you think of the many temples that we have, of the many buildings, and to maintain those buildings and so on. So we all participate, in a way, and for the temporal affairs of the church, but also the spiritual growth. Because since the members have been paying their tithing, the Lord says it will be a standing law forever, in the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 119, right? He says, “And this shall be a standing law onto them forever, saith the Lord.” So in verse four. Well, the tithing is what blesses and even enables us to have this discussion today, because of the Church continuing to provide. And so I’m very grateful to understand that this is really well managed, and it’s for the welfare of the members, and definitely to build the kingdom of God.

Hank Smith: 47:52 Frantz, I think the council that you just talked about, that is created in Section 120, right?

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 47:59 Oh, yes.

Hank Smith: 48:00 “It shall be disposed by a council, composed of the First Presidency of my Church, and of the bishop and his council, and by my high council; and by my own voice unto them.” So that very council that Elder Bednar was a part of, that he said he was a part of, has been a part of, I should say, and probably still is, is created here in Section 120. So it seems that the Lord is very careful. He wants the Church to be very careful with the widow’s mite. John, what were you going to add?

John Bytheway: 48:28 Thank you for, I’m so glad you brought that up. I can only imagine the burden that council must feel. And I seem to remember President Hinckley, in a conference talk, mentioning that he kept a widow’s mite on his desk to remind him of that. And you know, Frantz, as a bishop, how you felt about the fast offerings, and when somebody would come and need some help. And you were very prayerful about how do I do this and how much do I do, and I want to be so careful with these sacred funds, you know? And I felt that, I’m sure you felt that. And I’m so grateful that I feel like, once I’ve written my check, or made my online deposit or whatever, I know that there’s a council that is praying over this. What do we do with this? And that they are thinking of not just me, but the widow’s mite. That’s such a comfort. I-

Hank Smith: 49:23 I wanted to, if you guys don’t mind, I want to take a look just quickly at verse six. Someone might say, “Well, what’s the problem with, I don’t want to pay my tithing. I want to keep my money. What’s the problem?” I think the Lord gives a great explanation. He says, “If my people observed not this law,” tithing, “to keep it holy, and by this law, sanctify the land of Zion unto me.” So I think tithing first is sanctifying. It will cleanse you. And it does that for me. “That my statutes and my judgments may be kept thereon, that it may be most holy.” So again, I think tithing creates a holy person, a sanctified person. He says, “If you don’t do these things, if you’re not sanctified, and you’re not holy, it shall not be a land of Zion unto you.”

Hank Smith: 50:11 Isn’t this interesting that this is about who we are. You both brought up the talk, “The Challenge to Become” from Elder Oaks, then-Elder Oaks, right? And I think tithing is a major portion of what do you want to be? And I don’t want to be a covetous, money centered individual. And if I am a covetous, money centered individual, when I get to Zion, it won’t be Zion to me, right? It won’t be Zion to me because I won’t be a Zion person. So I think I would say, if tithing… Paying tithing is a way to create Zion in yourself.

John Bytheway: 50:59 And to me, it helped a lot to watch my parents, like everybody, struggle to make ends meet. Both my mom and my dad worked, but tithing was such a… It was never a decision. It was a decision made once, and it was easy after that. And that was a great example to me.

Hank Smith: 51:23 Yeah. I remember once-

John Bytheway: 51:25 It was an indicator of what mattered, you know?

Hank Smith: 51:28 I remember once President Hinckley talking about how, when we went through a recession, the tithes actually went up, and he was just profoundly touched by that. And in tears, he said, “There’s one word for that brothers and sisters, faith.” That is faith, right? That during a time when people’s incomes went down, the tithes of the Church went up.

John Bytheway: 51:54 Hank and Frantz, I was just thinking, having gone through this pandemic, and it’s still going, President Hinckley talked about that recession. How many have had their income effected by this significantly, and kept paying their tithing? And I bet many testimonies have been strengthened of tithing, that the Lord’s promises are sure and he’s taken care of us. Mine has. My testimony of it has been strengthened, that we had what we needed to keep going.

Hank Smith: 52:24 Frantz, let me ask you a kind of a final question here. You’ve done just incredibly well with, I mean, this was a lot of sections. This is one of those lessons that just flies from topic to topic, and you just, I’ve learned so much. I want to hear how you feel personally, as just a member of the Church, studying the restoration. You have a doctorate degree. You have a very solid educational background, and yet here you are faithful to the Church. I think our listeners would love to know more about how you feel about the Restoration.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 53:02 Oh, thank you, Hank. I appreciate the question. The Restoration means everything for me. And maybe a little bit of background. I became a member when I was 15-years-old. Three, four months later, I would turn 16, but I was 15 when I became a member. And I remember distinctly one night, after having hung out with friends, I came home and I laid on my bed, and we, as I shared in the beginning, we didn’t have a lot of means. So I was lucky enough that day to be on my bed alone, because there were three of us that slept on that bed. But I was looking at the ceiling and I thought to myself, “Is that what this is about?” I just, I was 15, and I had that moment of maturity, which was rare, but I thought, “Is that what this is about? Just going to play with friends, going to school, wake up in the morning, eat and go to bed?”

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 54:07 I’m like, “There has to be more than this.” And that was a question that stayed with me until my uncle introduced us to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the rest is history. So I’ve been a member now for 37 years, and I’m grateful for the so many documents that have been left behind, historically speaking. Not only the scriptures, but Revelations in Context, the church history, Saints, the volumes of Saints. And when I consider this, I’m like, there’s no way that the Church should have survived. Well, no, seriously. When I read about the Saints and what’s happened to the Prophet Joseph Smith, I’m like, there’s no way that this thing should have survived. And it would only have to be that the hand of the Almighty God was in the details, the important details, of growing His Church in these latter days with a bunch of imperfect individuals, which includes me, right?

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 55:14 With a bunch of imperfect people trying to do their very, very best. So the Restoration has meant for me that I have my family. I have five boys that we’re trying to teach to be good citizens, that we’re trying to teach to be good contributors around them. It’s helped me understand that divorce is really not an option for us, that we’re going to work through things. It’s helped me have hope that I can have the relationship that I have with my wife for eternity. It’s helped me understand that look, you have a lot of bad habits, and you have a lot of weaknesses, but with the Lord, every day, you can become better. And that’s comforting to me. It’s helped me understand that I have a relationship with my brothers and sisters, regardless of their colors, the color of their skins, their religious affiliation, or their sexual orientation.

Dr. Frantz Belo…: 56:12 It’s helped me understand that I can still find commonality that we’re all sons and daughters of God. So, that understanding helps me have peace in this life. Not that my life is peaceful, but it helps me have peace in life. As I go through those different circumstances or situations. It’s blessed me so much, but I’ll tell you, Hank and John, the greatest blessing I’ve received, bar none, is understanding that I have a God, that I have a Father in Heaven, and understanding that he has sent his Only Begotten Son to bless me. And that Jesus has loved me so much that he’s paid for my sins, and that he continues to work with me. I can’t tell you how significant that knowledge is for me personally. If that’s all I knew in this life, it would have been sufficient, and I’m grateful for that.

Hank Smith: 57:22 John, another episode of followHIM is in the books, and it has been so much fun. This has just been a light to me today. I just feel really uplifted and edified.

John Bytheway: 57:34 I think our listeners love all of our guests, and I hear that all the time. And I think Frantz, coming from Haiti, joining the Church later, at 15, and your perspective has been wonderful. People are going to love hearing your perspective on this, and thank you for sharing this time. And some very personal things about growing up, and ah, it’s going to be, bless a lot of people who may find themselves in a similar situation.

Hank Smith: 58:09 Yeah, absolutely wonderful. We want to thank Dr. Frantz Belot for being with us today. We want to thank all of you for listening. We couldn’t do this without you. We’re thankful to our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorenson and our production crew, Jamie Neilson, Lisa Spice, David Perry, Kyle Nelson, and Will Stoughton. And we hope that all of you will join us on our next episode of followHIM.