John Bytheway: 00:01 Welcome to part two of John Hilton III, Jeremiah, chapters one through 20.

John Hilton III: 00:07 Let’s turn the page and look at Jeremiah, chapter 17. I’ll start in verse five. It says, “Thus says the Lord, cursed are those who trust in mere mortals and make mere flesh their strength, whose hearts turn away from the Lord. They shall be like a shrub in the desert. They shall not see when relief comes. They shall live in the parched places of the wilderness. And in contrast, blessed are those who trust in the Lord. They shall be like a tree planted by water, sending out its roots by the stream. It shall not fear when the heat comes.” And I love that. That’s probably worth unpacking for a minute. What does this mean in your life to really trust in the Lord versus trusting in mere mortals? That’s a theme that Jeremiah returns to a few times, this issue of trust. Where’s my trust?

Hank Smith: 00:59 The Book of Mormon would call that the arm of the flesh. Do not trust in the arm of the flesh. I think of Nephi automatically, “For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters.” Remember Nephi saying that the Liahona led them to the more fertile parts of the wilderness. Also, Psalms. What is it? Psalm 23, “He leadeth me beside still waters.”

John Bytheway: 01:23 One of the things that, it was Elder Maxwell that I first recall saying it so beautifully, but part of trusting in the Lord is trusting in His timing, which is one of the hardest things to do, when our expectations are not met of how things should happen and how they should unfold.

Dr. John Hilton III: 01:40 Definitely. In so many areas of our lives, I think it’s easy to look sideways to see what other people are doing, to trust in the opinions of experts rather than really look upward to trust in God, in His prophets. If we just keep reading here in chapter 17, Jeremiah gives an amazing promise about the Sabbath day. So Jeremiah is called to go stand in the gates of Jerusalem and he says, “If you listen to me, says the Lord, and bring in no burden by the gate of this city on the Sabbath day, but keep the Sabbath day holy and do no work on it, then this city shall be inhabited forever. But if you do not listen to me to keep the Sabbath day holy, then I will kindle a fire in its gates.” And we’ve already had the spoiler alert. We know what the people are going to choose, but I think it’s really powerful to see the amazing blessings that come from keeping the Sabbath day.

Hank Smith: 02:34 Yeah, it’s impressive to me that Jeremiah is still going. He’s like the Energizer Bunny fully knowing they’re not going to. He’s still teaching the doctrine, but knowing full well they’re not going to take it.

Dr. John Hilton III: 02:47 He preaches for decades, and we’ve already seen some of this in Jeremiah. He uses these very creative metaphors and object lessons. If we were to jump over to chapter 18, I think this is one of the more famous passages from Jeremiah. Jeremiah is told to go watch a potter making a clay vessel and the vessel doesn’t turn out properly so the potter reuses the clay to make a new vessel, and then God gives an interpretation. He says, this is verse six of Jeremiah 18, “Can I not do with you, O house of Israel, just as this potter has done, just like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 03:28 And I think we can look at that in different ways. Maybe a negative view is like, well, Jerusalem’s doing terrible, so we’re just going to have to reshape them and that’s really painful. But I think it’s also a hopeful message. Maybe sometimes I feel like a misshapen piece of clay. And it’s like, well, I’m useless. And God’s saying, “No, no, no, don’t worry. I can reshape you. You are clay in my hands.” And to me, I think that’s a real message of hope that God’s going to be able to shape me to do whatever it is He needs from me.

John Bytheway: 03:59 Yeah, I’d like the idea that, is it Paul that talks about becoming a new creature? He’s a creator and he can make you a new creation, a new creature.

Dr. John Hilton III: 04:08 Yeah. Clay in the potter’s hand, that’s a great one liner from Jeremiah. There’s an object lesson, and if there’s any seminary teachers listening, you might want to do this, but you might not. It probably doesn’t meet the, say, current safety standards. So this is jump into Jeremiah chapter 19, around verse three. Jeremiah is told to go and get some pottery. And so he gets this pottery and he says, “Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, inhabitants of Jerusalem; thus saith the LORD of hosts, I will bring evil upon this people.” And then He takes the pottery and He just throws it to the ground and it smashes into pieces. Can you see the early morning seminary teacher just throwing the pottery on the ground? That’s going to wake the kids up. Make sure everyone has the safety goggles, though, if you do that.

Dr. John Hilton III: 04:51 And then verse 11, “Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Even so I will break this people and this city as one breaketh a potter’s vessel.” So Jeremiah’s got this really creative object lesson, but the authorities are not impressed with it. In fact, as a result, Jeremiah is captured, one of the temple priests hits Jeremiah and puts him in the stocks. When I think of this, picture these stocks in my mind, kind of like Medieval Europe, people are throwing tomatoes at you as they walk past. I’m not sure if that’s exactly how it was for Jeremiah.

Dr. John Hilton III: 05:21 But in other words, Jeremiah does exactly what God tells him to do with this amazing object lesson, and then things get worse. Jeremiah 20 is another time where Jeremiah’s in the stocks, he pours out his heart to the Lord and actually he quits. In verse Jeremiah chapter 20, verse nine, Jeremiah said, “I will not make mention of Him,” the Lord, “nor speak anymore in His name.” I quit. I’m done. Thanks Lord for the mission call. I bought my ticket. I’m heading home.

Dr. John Hilton III: 05:52 But then note this next phrase, Jeremiah says, “But God’s word was in my heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones and I could not stay.” I mean, that is one of the most powerful scriptural phrases, “His word was in my heart like a fire in my bones.” Jeremiah wants to quit, but he can’t. God’s word is just there, planted so deeply. And I hope that I can be that way in my life.

John Bytheway: 06:22 Boy, this reminds me. I was listening to a cassette tape, guys, a Boyd K. Packer at a CES symposium talking about an old seminary or Sunday school teacher that they had. President Packer said, “We could warm our hands by the fire of his testimony.” Great phrase.

Dr. John Hilton III: 06:40 That’s how Jeremiah is. The Word is in his heart like a fire in the bones. And maybe just pause for a minute on that phrase. Hank, John, if someone were to come to you and say, “I barely can read the scriptures, I’m getting bored with my studies.” What do you think? What are some things that we could do today to get God’s Word in our hearts like a fire in the bones?

Hank Smith: 07:01 Wow, what a verse, Jeremiah 29. I love it, John. “I quit. I’m done. I will not make mention of Him nor speak of Him anymore in His name.” And it’s not even one space later, but, “His word was in my heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones and I was weary with forbearing. I could not stay.” So how long is his commitment to quitting. He’s like, “I quit. Okay, nevermind. I’m back.” I think the Lord loves that kind of gumption.

Hank Smith: 07:41 One of my favorite quotes is from the prophet Brigham Young, and they’re talking about the trek west, and this is what he says, “We are willing to take our full share of troubles, trials, losses and crosses, hardships and fatigues, warning and watching for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. And we feel the same, calm or strife, turmoil or peace, life or death, in the name of Israel’s God we mean to conquer or die trying.” That to me is similar to, “I could not stay. I could not be quiet. I am moving forward. It’s in my bones.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 08:22 Love that.

John Bytheway: 08:23 Elder Jeffrey R. Holland gave a talk called A Teacher Come From God. And in here he spoke about Jeremiah. He said, “So speak on unto them. He did, but initially not with much success, things went from bad to worse until finally he was imprisoned and made a laughingstock among the people, angered that he had been so mistreated and maligned, Jeremiah vowed in effect he would never teach another lesson, whether it be to an investigator, primary child, new convert or heaven forbid the 15-year-olds. I will not make mention to the Lord nor speak anymore in his name,” the discouraged prophet said, “but then came the turning point of Jeremiah’s life. Something had been happening with every testimony he had borne, every scripture he had read, every truth he had taught. Something had been happening that he hadn’t counted on, even as he vowed to close his mouth and walk away from the Lord’s work, he found that he could not. Why? Because his word was in my heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones and I was weary with forbearing that I could not stay.”

John Bytheway: 09:26 And Elder Holland continues, “This is what happens in the gospel to both the teacher and the taught. It is what happens to Nephi and Lehi when, ‘The Holy Spirit of God did come down from heaven and did enter into their hearts and they were filled as if with fire and they could speak forth marvelous words.’ Helaman 5:45.”

Hank Smith: 09:46 That’s fantastic. A lot of us will remember October 2009. I bet both of you remember Safety for the Soul, Elder Holland’s talk on the Book of Mormon. I remember some pounding of the pulpit a little bit. I’m going to read a bit of it, but I would encourage everyone to go back. You’ve got to hear him say it, the power in his voice.

Hank Smith: 10:10 He said, “Now, I did not sail with the brother of Jared in crossing an ocean, settling in a new world. I did not hear King Benjamin speak, his angelically delivered sermon. I did not proselyte with Alma and Amulek, nor witness the fiery death of the innocent believers. I was not among the Nephite crowd who touched the wounds of the resurrected Lord, nor did I weep with Mormon and Moroni over the destruction of an entire civilization, but my testimony of this record and the piece it brings to the human heart is as binding and unequivocal as was theirs. Like them, I give my name unto the world to witness unto the world that which I have seen. And like them, I lie not, God bearing witness of it. I ask that my testimony of the Book of Mormon and all that it implies given today under my oath and my office be recorded by men on earth and angels in heaven.

Hank Smith: 11:13 “I hope I have a few years left in my last days, but whether I do or do not, I want it absolutely clear when I stand before the judgment bar of God that I declare to the world in the most straightforward language that I could summon that the Book of Mormon is true, that it came forth the way Joseph said it came forth and it was given to bring happiness and hope to the faithful in the travail of the latter days.”

Hank Smith: 11:41 Do you remember you guys hearing that and just, “Ooh!” And that’s a Jeremiah 20:9 moment. “Like a fire burning in my bones, I could not stop. I could not stay.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 11:59 So Jeremiah goes on and he continues his preaching. Maybe we can take a look at Jeremiah 21:13. So now we’ve left the Come Follow Me curriculum. Come Follow Me curriculum I think ends at Jeremiah chapter 20, but it doesn’t pick up next week until Jeremiah chapter 30. So if you’re okay, let’s fill in the gaps with some of the highlights of 21 through 30.

Hank Smith: 12:20 I don’t know if there’s a Come Follow Me police that will come get you, John.

Dr. John Hilton III: 12:24 In Jeremiah chapter 22:13, we read, “And the Lord says, ‘What sorrow awaits Jehoiakim?” Now just to pause there real quick, Jehoiakim, he’s the king of Judah at the time. He’s Zedekiah’s older brother and he’s probably king during much of Lehi’s lifetime as well. So even though this is a name that we’re not familiar with, this would’ve been a name that Nephi was familiar with.

Dr. John Hilton III: 12:47 So Jeremiah’s criticizing the current king who builds his palace with forced labor. He builds injustice into its walls for he makes his neighbors work for nothing. He does not pay them for their labor. He says, “I will build a magnificent palace of huge rooms and many windows. I will panel it throughout with a fragrant cedar and paint it a lovely red. But a beautiful cedar palace does not make a great king. Your father, Josiah, also had plenty to eat and drink.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 13:18 So now Jeremiah is referring to Jehoiakim’s father, Josiah, who we’ve read about, a righteous, wonderful king. And Jeremiah’s saying, “Josiah had plenty of material wealth, but he was just and right in all his dealings.” He continues, “That is why the Lord blessed him. He gave justice and help to the poor and needy. Everything went well for him. ‘Isn’t that what it means to know me?’ saith the LORD.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 13:43 And I love that last phrase. “The LORD says he gave justice and help to the poor and needy. ‘Isn’t that what it means to know me?'” To me, that phrase connects me to John chapter 17:3 where before going into Gethsemane, Jesus says, “This is life eternal that they might know Thee, the only true God, in Jesus Christ whom Thou sent.” So eternal life is to know God. And here the Lord says, “What does it mean to know me? To serve the poor and the needy.” That’s what it means.

Hank Smith: 14:16 Elder Quentin L. Cook recently gave a talk at BYU and he spoke of the individual prophets. Many, I shouldn’t say all of them, but he spoke about many individual prophets, it was the Education Week.

Dr. John Hilton III: 14:29 Yeah, Education Week devotional.

Hank Smith: 14:30 When he got to President Monson, he said, “Nobody took care of the poor and the needy like President Monson. Nobody had the one-on-one ministry like President Monson.” I mean, he was called as bishop. He’s 22 years old. Ward has a thousand people in it and he’s using his vacation time to go visit widows. That to me is an indication that President Monson knew the Lord. “This is what it means to know me: to feed the poor and the needy.” I really like that. And Jeremiah is calling this king out on his opulence, right?

Dr. John Hilton III: 15:10 Yeah. And then again, it’s kind of like the Last Supper, “Lord is it I?” To what extent am I kind of in the same boat? Jeremiah would say to me, “Hey John, you’ve got a lot. Maybe it’s time for you to give a little bit more back to help others.”

Hank Smith: 15:24 That’s a pretty big house you’ve got there in Orem, Utah, there John. How about coming to your friend Hank and helping him out?”

John Bytheway: 15:33 Boy, those phrases, “You’re building injustice into its walls and oppression into its doorframes and ceilings.” That’s poetic. By using forced labor, you’re building injustice into your house.

Hank Smith: 15:44 It’s in your walls now.

John Bytheway: 15:46 Speaking of President Monson, when I was young, I remember President Kimball speaking of the threefold mission of the church to proclaim the gospel, perfect the saints and redeem the dead. And it was President Monson that added care for the poor and needy in his administration. And it’s been recently reticulated now in the new handbook to, “Live the gospel of Jesus Christ, care for those in need…” It doesn’t say “poor and needy,” but just “those in need.” “Live the gospel of Jesus Christ, care for those in need, invite all to come unto Christ, and unite families for eternity.” And that’s the new way the Work of Salvation has been articulated. I think it’s beautiful: live, care, invite, unite.

Dr. John Hilton III: 16:30 Well, I remember when that addition was made during the time of President Monson, and I always kind of refer to that as the fourth mission. When we get to the New Testament, there’s going to be lots of times that Jesus talks about the importance of serving the poor. And sometimes we’ll say, “Well yes, and we should also serve the poor in spirit.” And we’ll diverge and talk about helping the poor in spirit. And that’s true, we should serve the poor in spirit. But what Jeremiah is talking about here, what Jesus is talking about, the new [inaudible 00:16:55] is serving the poor financially.

Dr. John Hilton III: 16:58 And that’s an obligation that we just cannot escape. We are called by God to do it. And I love what Elder Holland said, I can’t tell you exactly what your responsibility is to care for those who cannot or do not always provide for themselves, but the Lord can. And so then the responsibility is on each of us to pray and say, “Lord, what do you want me to do with the stewardship I’ve been given? What’s my responsibility to care for the poor?”

Hank Smith: 17:25 Both of you have been to Israel, and I like to tell this story as we venture from the Sea of Galilee down to the Dead Sea, that there’s an old… I think it’s a Jewish rabbi or I can’t remember who said, “Look how beautiful the Sea of Galilee is because it takes and gives, it takes and gives, it takes and gives. And look how dead the Dead Sea is because it takes, and takes, and takes, but has no outlet. It does not give.” But the Sea of Galilee is just brimming with life and-

Dr. John Hilton III: 17:59 Water comes in, the Jordan flows through it, it flows out. It goes in and out.

Hank Smith: 18:04 The rabbi’s idea is that’s a beautiful life. A life that takes and gives, takes and gives instead of just a life that is focused on taking and taking. That’s always stuck with me.

Hank Smith: 18:15 I like this. I’m going to write down here in Jeremiah 22, kind of a King Benjamin reference because he seems to fit this idea of what Jeremiah is talking about. He’s a fantastic king and he reigned in judgment and justice and it was well with him. He was beloved by his people. The same with his son, King Mosiah, beloved by the people. What did you say, John? He didn’t build unrighteousness into the walls.

Dr. John Hilton III: 18:43 He labored with his own hands for his support.

John Bytheway: 18:46 And you’d probably say that King Noah did.

Hank smith: 18:48 Yeah.

Dr. John Hilton III: 18:49 Well, let’s jump to one of my all time favorite stories about Jeremiah. This is, again, one of those lesser known stories. You want to watch the Jeremiah movie, it will make this scene come alive. So we’re going to be around Jeremiah 27:28. It’s another one of Jeremiah’s object lessons. The Lord calls him to wear a yoke, kind of like the oxen wear. So he’s walking around the city wearing this yoke, and it’s an object lesson to say pretty soon Jerusalem will be under the yoke of bondage to Babylon.

Dr. John Hilton III: 19:18 So one day, Jeremiah is in the temple, he’s wearing his yoke. And this false prophet named Hananiah makes his own prophecy. He says that God has revealed to him that the yoke of Babylon will be broken. Within two years, Jerusalem’s going to be set free. And to illustrate his point, Hananiah takes Jeremiah’s yoke that he’s wearing and he breaks it and he says, “Thus saith the Lord, in two years I will break the yoke of oppression of Babylon.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 19:45 So, I mean, try to imagine this scene in your mind and watch-

Hank Smith: 19:48 Crazy scene.

Dr. John Hilton III: 19:49 … or watch the Jeremiah movie. It is a crazy scene. So Jeremiah later says to Hananiah, “You have broken a wooden yoke, but you have replaced it with a yoke of iron.” And then he prophesies that Hananiah will die that year, and Hananiah does.

Dr. John Hilton III: 20:05 So for the people who are there watching, it kind of takes us to Zedekiah, who’s a really complicated character and we’ll talk more about him next week. In next week Come Follow Me, there’s a lot more exciting stories with Zedekiah, but you’ve got to wonder, what does Zedekiah feel? He’s watching Jeremiah, the people are listening to him, Hananiah… There’s other false prophets, but does Zedekiah know they’re false prophets? He probably wants to listen to them. It sounds good. But then when Hananiah dies the other guy was probably like, “Oh…” This is probably taking place just a couple of years after Nephi and Lehi left Jerusalem.

Dr. John Hilton III: 20:37 That takes us to Jeremiah chapter 29. That’s the last chapter we’ll discuss today. And it’s got a really beautiful verse that I want to tie back to one of the first verses we talked about back in Jeremiah chapter 1:5.

Dr. John Hilton III: 20:50 So in Jeremiah chapter 29, verse 11, the Lord says, “I know the plans I have for you, plans for your welfare and not for harm, to give you a future with hope.” That’s such a beautiful verse. I’m just going to read it one more time. “I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for your welfare and not for harm. To give you a future with hope.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 21:19 I love that God has a plan for you. And back in Jeremiah chapter 1:5, the Lord says, “Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you.” We’re not in a short-term relationship with the Lord. He’s known us from the beginning, and I love that He’s got a plan for us. He’s got hopes and dreams and a future with hope for you and for me. And I just know that we can tap into that plan. Sometimes God’s going to tell us everything. Maybe we see something in our patriarchal blessing, we know what to do. Sometimes we’re like Nephi, we just need to go without knowing the next step. But just to know that God has a plan for us can really be a blessing.

Hank Smith: 21:58 These are like a bookend verses, aren’t they, John?

Dr. John Hilton III: 22:01 Yeah. So if I can just share a personal story along the lines of God’s plans for us. You mentioned earlier that I speak Chinese. I served an English-speaking mission. I learned Chinese in my thirties. But before that, as a missionary, there was a time when I was serving in downtown Denver and a lot of the people we tracted into were Spanish speakers. And the Spanish speakers were really nice. They would invite us in, offer some food. A lot nicer, actually, than the English speakers we would tract into.

Dr. John Hilton III: 22:28 So I called my mission president and I said, “President Horn, could I switch and become a Spanish-speaking missionary?” And he said, “No, we need you as an English-speaking missionary.” But as I continued to kind of tract in those areas, the Holy Ghost whispered to my heart, “John, as soon as you get back from your mission, you need to learn Spanish.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 22:48 So I came back from my mission, I enrolled in Spanish 101, and it was kind of embarrassing to be in Spanish 101. I was the only returned missionary in the class. Everyone else was college freshman who had taken Spanish in high school. But I just kept at it. I took Spanish 101, 102. It’s a long story, but shortly after my wife Lani and I got married, we moved to Mexico for three months to really solidify our Spanish fluency. Then we came back and the first area where I was a seminary teacher was a beautiful farm town, Nyssa, Oregon, and a lot of the population there was Spanish speakers and Lani and I were called as ward missionaries. We were able to do lots of sharing the gospel in Spanish. And I felt like, “Okay, this was why God called me to learn Spanish, gave me that prompting years ago.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 23:32 Then we moved to Boston and I was teaching institute part-time in Boston, working full-time in a master’s program. And I had made a commitment to the church educational system that once I graduated I would go wherever they assigned me. I loved being in Boston. I hoped that I would remain in Boston, but that winter was also very cold in Boston. I don’t know, probably every winter is very cold in Boston. The snow that fell in November was still on the ground in March. And I remember one morning as I was going out to my car early in the morning, I kind of was like, “Why do I want to live in a place where I’m miserable for three months out of the year?” And I felt this little prompt… Sorry for my friends in Boston still, but I felt this little prompting from the Spirit say, “John, you’re going to go to the South and you’ll speak Spanish.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 24:21 And I was thinking, “Do people… Is there a lot of Spanish speakers in the South? What does that mean?” Well, some time passed. I got assigned by the church educational system to be an institute director of a nearby university a couple hours away. My wife Lani and I, we went house hunting and we couldn’t find any houses there in New Haven. So we said, “Okay, we’ll come back and go house hunting another weekend.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 24:44 The next Monday, an email went out to all seminary and institute employees saying that there was a new position available to be a coordinator in Miami, Florida. And it specifically said that if you want this job, you need to be able to speak Spanish because two of the stakes you’re coordinating are Spanish-speaking stakes. And I just felt the Spirit say, “This is your job, this is you.” So I called and I said, “Hey, I think this is for me.” And the person I talked to said, “Look, we’ve got tons of return missionaries who speak Spanish, and we’ve already assigned you to New Haven. We don’t need you, forget it.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 25:16 But the Spirit just really said, “This is your plan.” So I called that person’s boss and I said, “Look, you can do whatever you want. I’m just telling you I really think I’m a good fit for this job.” And he called me back three days later and he said, “You’re right. It’s your job.” Our family moved to Miami and it was such a beautiful time in our lives to be there in Miami, to have the privilege to train early morning seminary teachers in Spanish and Teach Institute in Spanish. I just loved it.

Dr. John Hilton III: 25:45 And so I apologize for sharing a long and personal story, but to me it’s an illustration that God has plans for us. And sometimes it’s just a little prompting that we get and then line upon line, it’s going to flow. I see that in the Sorensen’s. This is the whole story of Steve and Shannon Sorensen feeling a prompting to create a followHIM podcast, right? Line upon line, things will grow and develop as we keep our eye on the plans that God has. And I just love that phrase, that He has a hope for our future and as we follow His plans for us, we can have hope in our future.

John Bytheway: 26:20 Beautiful. Great story.

Hank Smith: 26:22 Yeah, it’s really a fantastic story, John.

John Bytheway: 26:26 John, this reminds me of a story of just the Lord having a plan for somebody when it didn’t seem like there was one. There was a little boy whose name was Harry. He was born in Lancashire, England, in 1857, and he had a little sister named Polly and his mother joined the church. His father left the family a lot. He had a drinking problem. Sometimes he would send money.

John Bytheway: 26:50 One time he sent enough money that Harry’s mother decided, “I’m going to go to Zion.” And she took a couple of, I think it was younger children, and left Harry and Polly with some members, different members. In fact, Harry was left with a family called the Toves. And their conversion was nominal. The Toves would take Harry with them to pubs and taverns and drink themselves into a stupor. Harry would often just hide under the table, and they taught him these dirty little tavern songs. He said he almost never forgot the lyrics of those songs for his whole life, but they would make him sing these songs so that people would give him money and then they could buy more liquor.

John Bytheway: 27:35 So all of this time, he didn’t get to go to school. He tried running away a couple of times and he heard what he called a soul voice say, “Harry, if you do this, you’ll never see your mother again.” The Toves actually tried to enlist him in the army to be a drummer because he had good rhythm, something like that. And again, that soul voice said, “You need to go back.” And he said one time while on what his biographer called a begging tour, Mother Tove as he called her was asleep and a newspaper blew by. He didn’t know how to read or decipher, they used to call it. And he grabbed this newspaper and he looked at it and he just thought it was magical that these little marks could speak to people, these little marks on a paper.

John Bytheway: 28:20 And he said out loud, “Will books and papers ever speak to me? I wonder if I will ever read books.” And he heard a voice, he called that his soul voice, that said, “Aye like A-Y-E aye and you’ll write them too.” And he said he was caught up in a profound silence for a long time until Mother Tove awoke and they resumed their journey. Well, he said, “My boyhood was a tragedy and a nightmare. I had to beat the dogs to the garbage.” Horrible childhood and aching to be able to read, which he never was taught to do. Well eventually Brigham Young found out about Harry and Polly and through the Perpetual (Emigration) Fund brought them across the ocean and across the plains.

John Bytheway: 29:12 I remember that Harry was with a certain wagon train, fell asleep and woke up when the last man on a horse was already on the other side of the river. And he yelled out to him, “Wait for me.” And the man on the horse said, “Can you swim?” He said, “Yes,” but he really couldn’t and he almost drowned. He made it to the other side but he realized he’d left his shoes on the other side of the river. So he crossed the plains mostly in bare feet. He did find some boots on a dead soldier and you’d think he would wear those to cross the plains but when he was asked about it later, he said, “No, I want something to wear when I see my mother again.” So I think this is about eight years old when these things were happening in England, and I think he’s about 11 years old when they get to Immigration Canyon.

John Bytheway: 30:04 I guess that they would prepare themselves the night before of coming into the valley, get all cleaned up and everything. And he put those boots on and walked down. I believe they came down State Street or Main Street, and there was a bit of recognition. He thought he saw his mother there and it was her and he was older, but saw her and said, exact quote, “What’s up, Mother?” And she took Harry and she had married another man who was killed in a threshing accident and then married another man who worked in the mines in Tukwila.

John Bytheway: 30:37 So you’re thinking, “Oh good, Harry’s going to get a chance to read.” But instead, he went to work in these mines. And finally an educator named Hannah Holbrook, and there’s an elementary school named after her in Bountiful, Utah, she discovered Harry and taught him to read.

John Bytheway: 30:56 His biographer said he went at it with everything he had: science, philosophy, everything, the scriptures. And his biographer said, and I’ll tell you who it is, “Had you read and studied as much as Harry did once he learned how to read, you would’ve earned a master’s degree in any university.” Well, he was living in a hut with some builders of the Salt Lake Temple. He put on his only coat, marched up University Hill and gave the valedictorian address.

John Bytheway: 31:26 Later he was called on a mission to the Southern states. He had to sub for the mission president at one point, I can’t remember why. So he was enacting mission president. He went to retrieve the bodies of Elder Gibbs and Elder Berry that were killed, the cane Massacre, I think they called it Cane Creek massacre. He dressed up as a vagabond and went and rescued these bodies and he was often asked to retell the story. He would dress up in that vagabond outfit that he had as he retold the story.

John Bytheway: 31:57 Eventually he was asked, “Can you write the history of your church?” For, I think it was Encyclopedia Americana Magazine or something. And he said, “Well, you don’t know what you’re asking. That would be quite a bit.” But he started putting that together and eventually he was called as a member of the Quorum of the 70, put all of this history together on April 6th of 1930.

Hank Smith: 32:20 Yeah, 100 years.

John Bytheway: 32:24 Yeah, exactly 100 years. He was speaking in General Conference and he said, “We have seven temples in the land roundabout in our first hundred years. Imagine the day when there will be 100 temples,” and the audience, “Oh!” And think of it today, John and Hank. Then he picked up these books and he put them on the pulpit and said, “Here as to an altar, I place this work of mine. And if there’s anything of excellence in it, I know it is of Thee,” he said to God. He said, “O God, the Eternal Father, here as to an altar, I place this work of mine.” And those books were the Comprehensive History of the Church by Brigham Henry Roberts, the B.H. Roberts that went by Harry.

John Bytheway: 33:11 The fun part of the story for me is when he would give copies of these volumes to his former missionaries, he would sign his name and put underneath in quotes, “And you’ll write them too.”

John Bytheway: 33:28 And here’s someone who was denied the chance to read, but as you’ve pointed out, John, God had a plan for him and it all unfolded eventually. And maybe had he not been denied that chance, he would not have gone for it with the same fervor. I don’t know. But it’s such a beautiful story. And some of our listeners will remember that name, B.H. Roberts. And that’s a little bit of his backstory. I got that from his biography written by Truman G. Madsen, so that’s why it’s his biographer. But he tells it like that where he doesn’t give away who it is until the end. But that story gives me testimony of that idea that God has a plan for us.

Hank Smith: 34:09 I love these bookend verses you’ve given us, John. Jeremiah 1:5, “Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee.” This is from Brigham Young, “I want to tell you, each and every one of you, that you are well acquainted with God, our Heavenly Father, or the Great Elohim. You are well acquainted with Him, for there is not a soul of you but what has lived in His house and dwelt with Him year after year; and yet you are seeking to become acquainted with Him when the fact is you have merely forgotten what you already know.” And that’s Brigham Young.

Hank Smith: 34:49 And then you go to the last verse here that John gave us, Jeremiah 29:11, “For I know the thoughts that I think towards you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil to give you an expected end.”

Hank Smith: 35:03 “I knew you before, I’m going to know you at the end,” this is President Ezra Taft Benson, “nothing will surprise us more when we get to heaven and see the Father and realize how well we know Him and how familiar His face is to us.”

Hank Smith: 35:21 John, before we let you go, I’d like to ask you just one more question. You’ve been wonderful for us today, and I feel like the book of Jeremiah has changed for me. It’s become a good friend. It really has given me fire in the bones just to read this book. What do you hope our listeners walk away with, having listened to our episodes with you?

Dr. John Hilton III: 35:43 I would just say maybe two things. I hope that we have a little more of that fire in the bones ourselves, that God’s Word is burning in us. Sometimes there’s a book like Jeremiah, we said at the very beginning, “Oh, I don’t know this one as much. We don’t have the Jeremiah chapter, so the Book of Mormon… So we might not encounter it as frequently.”

Dr. John Hilton III: 36:02 But I hope that we felt like, “Wow, this is fun.” And it gets us excited to go back and to explore other books of scripture in upcoming weeks. What’s the book of Hosea all about? Who’s Amos? Let’s get excited, not just say, “Oh, yeah, those are the books that we skip,” but there’s excitement and joy and spiritual power in these amazing lesser-known books of the Bible, perhaps.

Dr. John Hilton III: 36:21 The other thing that we might not have touched on quite as much today, we’ve seen a few places where Jesus Christ connects with Jeremiah like the den of robbers, the den of thieves. You both have made a few connections between Jesus Christ and Jeremiah. But throughout, we’ve been reading about the LORD, all caps, Jehovah interacting with Jeremiah. And so I would just want us to remember that Jesus Christ, He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And as we’re reading about these interactions between Jeremiah and the Lord, these are interactions between Jeremiah and Jesus Christ, and it’s helping us, I think, get to know Jesus Christ better.

Dr. John Hilton III: 36:59 And more than anything else, that’s what I would hope that as a result of these episodes, we’re feeling a greater connection with our Savior Jesus Christ and want to become more like Him.

Dr. John Hilton III: 37:08 As we were reading this today and Jeremiah was feeling this isn’t working in all of this, I wonder if he knew that one day we, in the latter days, not just us, the whole Christian world would read Jeremiah and find strength from reading him. And your life will mean something for generations, for millennia, for people, because we will get to read your story.

Hank Smith: 37:33 Wow, what a great day we’ve had today with my two friends, my two John friends. Thank you. We want to remind everybody of the podcast Seeking Jesus with John Hilton III. You can also go to his website, johnhiltoniii.com/jeremiah to find more of what we’ve talked about today. Please keep expanding your gospel knowledge.

Hank Smith: 37:58 We want to thank our executive producers, Steve and Shannon Sorensen, we love you. We want to thank our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, and we hope all of you will join us. We have more Jeremiah to talk about next week on followHIM.

Hank Smith: 38:14 We have an amazing production crew we want you to know about. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Nielson, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts and Ariel Cuadra. Thank you to our amazing production team.