John Bytheway: 00:00:03 Welcome to part two of this week’s podcast.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:00:08 Let’s move on to the Gospel of John, to John 5 and 6.

John Bytheway: 00:00:14 One of the non-Synoptic Gospels. So what do we call it? Just John, that’s what we call it.

Hank Smith: 00:00:21 There’s the Synoptics and then there’s John.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:00:23 And then there’s John. Yeah. So Eusebius, who’s a fourth century Christian historian, quotes Clement of Alexandria who was writing in the second century, and he says that the reason we have the Gospel of John is because of John’s disciples. He says that John’s disciples encouraged John to write this gospel and that John was familiar with the other gospels, so he decided to write a different kind of gospel. According to Clement of Alexandria quoted in Eusebius, he decided to write a more symbolic gospel or a more spiritual gospel.

Hank Smith: 00:01:00 The backstage pass.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:01:02 That’s right. Yeah. You can see that throughout John in the way that he selects his stories. For instance, John’s the one that makes it clear to us that there could have been a lot more books than what we have. He says that at the end of the gospel, that if we had written down everything Jesus said and did, the world couldn’t fit all the books that could be written. So John is being incredibly selective in the stories he chooses, and it just so happens that some of the stories we’re looking at today are stories that are found in the Synoptic Gospels. John includes the account of Jesus walking on water, he includes the account of Jesus miraculously feeding a multitude of 5,000 people.

  00:01:42 But the way that John writes those stories is totally different than the Synoptic Gospels. You can put the Synoptic Gospels side by side and sometimes read straight across and they use the exact same words. John tells the same stories using his own words. He’s being a little more creative here. Now, one of the things John does in being very selective and symbolic in terms of the stories he chooses is John chooses seven miracles of Jesus to emphasize throughout his gospel. He likes the number seven. It’s complete, whole, perfect, and you’ve already discussed on the podcast this year the miracle of turning water into wine, the miracle of healing the nobleman’s son at the end of John 4.

  00:02:31 Now in chapter 5 and 6, we get three miracles, three more miracles back to back. We get the healing of a man who is lame at the pool of Bethesda, and then we get the feeding of 5,000, and then we get the miracle of walking on water. That will leave you with two more miracles to cover with your future guests, the healing of the man born blind in John 9 and then the raising of Lazarus from the dead in John 11. So notice how John punctuates these miracles with a raising somebody from the dead miracle to lead into then Jesus’ own raising of the dead as his resurrection.

John Bytheway: 00:03:11 I seem to recall too that John doesn’t have any parables by one definition of it. There’s a place where it says He spake a parable. “I am the good shepherd,” which isn’t really the kind of parable, but there’s no parables.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:03:23 Yes, and another thing that’s interesting, I’ve been describing all these seven miracles as miracles, but John doesn’t call them that. John doesn’t use the word miracles. He calls them signs. So for John, each one of these is a sign that Jesus is performing that is a miracle, it is miraculous, but it’s a sign that points us to Jesus, that helps us understand more about who Jesus is. So let’s start off with sign number three in John 5. So John 5 begins by telling us that there’s a feast of the Jews that’s coming up, and so Jesus goes to Jerusalem. This doesn’t specify which feast right here, and we’ll talk more about what feasts are happening in just a minute in the next chapter.

  00:04:10 That’s a detail that’s not as important to this story. What’s important about this story is the detail it will reveal in John 5:9, that this story takes place on the Sabbath. Here we have Jesus at Jerusalem by the sheep market. There’s this pool that’s called, in the Hebrew tongue, Bethesda we’re told having five porches. Then it goes on in verse three, “And in these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.” So there’s a bunch of people who are powerless, who are disabled waiting for the moving of the water. Now John 4 continues to describe why they’re waiting for the moving of the water.

  00:04:57 John 5:4 says, “For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool and troubled the water, and whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.” If you take a look in the New Testament Institute manual, it quotes Elder McConkie. Here it’s quoting his doctrinal New Testament commentary. Here’s a quote from Elder McConkie. “Any notion that an angel came down and troubled the waters, so that the first person thereafter entering them would be healed, was pure superstition. Healing miracles are not wrought in any such manner.” I think that Elder McConkie would be pleased to know that that whole verse does not show up in most of the earliest New Testament manuscripts. It’s missing. It was added later.

John Bytheway: 00:05:51 It’s a tradition.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:05:52 It is.

John Bytheway: 00:05:53 They see bubbles and think, “I bet that’s an angel probably.”

Hank Smith 00:05:56 Well, I can see why someone would put in the explanation because if you didn’t have it, you wouldn’t know what the guy was saying when he says, I have no man to put me in the water. You’d be like, “Why did he say that? What are you waiting for?” So somebody, probably well-meaning, put it in.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:06:09 But it’s nice to know their Bible did not originally say that an angel was coming down and making the water into a fountain of youth or something like that.

Hank Smith: 00:06:20 You don’t see that in the gospel very often, right, Jason? You don’t see first come, first serve. I got one piece of sacrament bread up here.

John Bytheway: 00:06:27 This is the real way to be healed. It’s get in line quickly.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:06:32 We just read about Jesus multiplying loaves and fishes to feed a multitude. He didn’t just throw one loaf in the air and said whoever grabs it gets it. Yeah. So there’s the man who’s waiting there, and we’re told in verse five he has been struggling with his infirmity for quite a long time. He’s been dealing with this for 38 years. Jesus sees him and approaches him recognizing how long a time he has waited to be healed, and Jesus walks up to him and in verse six asks, “Wilt thou be made whole,” and the man reacts by saying, “Well, yeah, that’s why I’m here. I’d love to be made whole. I can’t make it into the pool fast enough. I need somebody to help get me into the pool.” So he’s expecting Jesus to respond by saying, “Well, I’ll help you out.

  00:07:19 I’ll get you into the pool as soon as it’s stirred. I’ll get you in there fast enough so that you can be healed,” but instead in verse eight, Jesus says, “Rise, take up thy bed and walk,” and in verse eight, we’re told immediately, the man was made whole, took up his bed and walked, and then we’re told that this is a Sabbath day and that sets up what we’re about to read next. Next, we find out that that causes some trouble because now this man is walking around the city carrying his bed on the Sabbath. Some people spot him. This might be a good point to point out that John often summarizes Jesus’ opponents by just saying “The Jews.” In Matthew and Mark, it’s the Pharisees or the scribes or the chief priests or the Herodians.

  00:08:09 In John, time and again, John will just say the Jews did this, and I think it’s important to remember that this is John writing at a later time when Christians and Jews are having disagreements with each other. They’re separated. At the time that Jesus lived, Jesus is very much Jewish. Jesus is attending synagogue. Jesus was circumcised according to the covenant. He is fully Jewish and his disciples are all Jewish. So it would be a little bit surprising for somebody who’s Jewish in the time of Jesus to read John and say, “Wait a minute, what do you mean the Jews?”

  00:08:47 Jesus is a Jew, but by the time that John is writing this, even Christians who were Jews are often being kicked out of the synagogue, not allowed to participate if they wanted to. Christians have formed their own groups by this time. So from John’s perspective, it is Jesus versus the Jews even though in Jesus’ lifetime, things are a little more complicated. The Jews are Pharisees and Sadducees and Herodians and chief priests and scribes and Jesus and his disciples. There are lots of Jews that are following Jesus.

John Bytheway: 00:09:20 President Boyd Kay Packer gave the most beautiful talk called The Moving of the Water, and this was in April 1991 and I know that the three of us here have been to the pool of Bethesda before. It’s kind of like way low, isn’t it, because the place where you’re standing is higher than the level where this would’ve taken place, but President Packer said, he quoted this story from John 5 and then he said, “There has always been, in all of humanity, a sprinkling of those who are described in the scriptures as the blind, the halt, the lame, the deaf, the wither, the dumb, the impotent folk. We refer to them as having learning or communication disorders, as the hearing or visually impaired, those with motor or orthopedic limitations.

  00:10:11 We speak of intellectual or emotional impairment, mental illness. Some suffer from a combination of these. All of them cannot function without help. I speak to the families of those who, at birth or as the result of accident or disease, must live with an impaired body or mind. I desire to bring comfort to those to whom the words handicapped or disability have a very personal meaning,” and then he goes on to teach doctrine of the resurrection, of never ridiculing or teasing. There’s just a couple of paragraphs that I thought were so beautiful. “You parents and you families whose lives must be reordered because of a handicapped one whose resources and time must be devoted to them.” Give me a sec here. I have extended family I’m thinking about. “Our special heroes, you are manifesting the works of God with every thought, every gesture of…” Hang on, guys. Hank, tell me a joke. Let’s see.

Hank Smith: 00:11:18 You’re doing great.

John Bytheway: 00:11:19 Okay, hang on. Let me take a deep breath. “You are manifesting the works of God with every thought, with every gesture of tenderness and care you extend to the loved one. Nevermind the tears, nor the hours of regret and discouragement. Nevermind the times you feel you cannot stand another day of what is required. You are living the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ in exceptional purity and you perfect yourselves in the process. The day of healing will come. Bodies which are deformed and minds which are warped will be made perfect. In the meantime, we must look after those who wait by the pool of Bethesda.” Isn’t that beautiful?

Hank Smith: 00:12:05 Yeah, it is beautiful.

John Bytheway: 00:12:07 Because we know people who devote a lot of their lives to taking care of a loved one and who are waiting by the pool at Bethesda. I just thought that was a beautiful talk and I think we all know some who do that.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:12:21 Thanks for sharing that.

John Bytheway: 00:12:22 Yeah. Absolutely.

Hank Smith: 00:12:23 Jason, is this Jesus’ first miracle in Jerusalem? Do we know? Because so often in our minds, we think all of this is happening in the same place where a lot of his miracles are taking place up in Galilee, which is in the northern part of the country and this is in the southern part of the country?

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:12:41 Yeah. This is one of those details that’s unique to the Gospel of John. In the other gospels, they focus entirely on Jesus’ mission in Galilee and they leave the stories about what Jesus did in Jerusalem for the very end of their gospels. Remember, the Bible Dictionary entry we read at the beginning suggests that we don’t really know the chronological order and that each of the gospels, because they’re testimonies are sharing their testimonies, they’re not trying to get the chronology perfect, although some may want to.

  00:13:14 Luke, at the beginning of his gospel, in the first four verses, he says that he is trying to give an order to count of the things and he talks about he knows eyewitnesses. He’s talking to eyewitnesses. So Luke may be presenting his gospel as the definitive chronology, but based on comparing all the gospels, it’s really difficult to say. So in the Gospel of John, Jesus comes to Jerusalem a couple of times, but in the other gospels, we only get Jesus in Jerusalem at the end of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

Hank Smith: 00:13:43 Yeah. Coming for his final time.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:13:45 Coming for his final time, and I think they do that intentionally to present that as Jesus’ final time so that when you see Jesus has prophesied in all three of the gospels, he prophesied multiple times that he will go to Jerusalem and he’ll have to suffer many things of the chief priest and others there, and that he will then die and be resurrected in Jerusalem. By the other gospels saving Jerusalem for the end, it sets us up as readers of the gospels to feel a little bit of anxiety as Jesus is approaching Jerusalem because we know what’s coming. Jesus has prophesied it multiple times.

Hank Smith: 00:14:19 But John, he goes to Jerusalem?

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:14:21 John, he goes to Jerusalem other times. Yeah. I should mention there is one account in Luke where Jesus goes to Jerusalem as a child. At the end of Luke 2, Jesus goes as a 12-year-old to a festival with his parents there and then goes back, but in terms of his ministry.

Hank Smith: 00:14:37 It wasn’t until I went to the Holy Land that I understood, wow, this is a long ways away from Galilee where he’s spending a lot of time, where his disciples are from, and then that trip down to Jerusalem, that was quite a trip.

00:14:49 So Jason, it’s the Sabbath. It’s kind of the dun, dun, dun moment.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:14:55 It is the Sabbath.

Hank Smith: 00:14:56 He just mentions it right at the very end of the story. Oh, by the way.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:15:00 Right at the very end of the story in 5:9, we get that and then to make sure we don’t forget that, it’s repeated in the very next verse. In 5:10, “The Jews therefore said unto him, that was cured, it is the Sabbath. It is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed,” and just in case you forget, by verse 16, we’re reminded, “And because he had done these things on the Sabbath,” so we’re reminded multiple times that all of these events are happening on the Sabbath.

John Bytheway: 00:15:31 Is anybody there just going, this is so wonderful. That man for 38 years had been like this. Does that just go, whew. How come nobody’s going, this is the best day ever? Did you see what we just saw? That man has been…

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:15:47 It’s not entirely clear from the story that the Jews who are questioning him were aware that he was just cured. They just see him walking around with this bed and then he’s the one that tells them, “Hey, it’s the one that just made me whole that told me to take up my bed and walk in verse 11.” So then they ask him, “Wait a minute, who said this to thee? Who said to thee take up thy bed and walk,” and he says, “I don’t know,” because Jesus had just cured him and then stepped away, and apparently, the man obeyed him so quickly, he just jumped up, grabbed his bed and walked away.

Hank Smith: 00:16:21 I didn’t get a name.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:16:23 Didn’t get a name. Forgot to ask.

John Bytheway: 00:16:25 The movie the church made about this, I love the actor they chose to be this man. His eyes looking up at the Savior, just go find them of church Bible videos on this story. It’s really good.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:16:36 I’ll have to take a look at that. So then Jesus finds him again. He finds him in the temple in verse 14 and says to him, “Thou art made whole: sin no more lest a worse thing come unto thee.” I think it’s important to pause right there and remind ourselves that Jesus isn’t connecting sin to disability or sin to sickness there. I think you could misread that as thinking, oh, wait a minute. Jesus is saying sin no more lest you’re going to become crippled again. I don’t think that’s what’s going on, and I think Jesus makes that very clear later in chapter nine when people are asking a question about a man who had been blind since birth and they’re asking whose fault is it, and Jesus answers and says, “Neither hath this man sinned nor his parents.”

  00:17:24 Jesus is not suggesting that disability or sickness is in any way attached to sin. I think that’s really important to point out so that we don’t misread this verse, but Jesus has now identified himself to the man. So the man departs and tells the Jews that were asking before that it’s Jesus. So in verse 16, we learned that the Jews start to persecute Jesus and even seek to slay him, it says, because he had done these things on the Sabbath, and Jesus answers them and doesn’t deny it, but in fact, in some ways, as Jesus often does in the Gospel of John, doubles down on the very thing that is upsetting them. So Jesus says, “The Father worketh hitherto and I work.”

  00:18:10 And then the Jews responded and it says they sought the more to kill him because he had not only broken the Sabbath, but he had said that God was his father, making himself equal to God. Now, I think it’s important to note there that the Jews are not upset that he said his father works on the Sabbath. That doesn’t seem to upset them. They’re only upset that he makes himself equivalent to God and that he is working on the Sabbath, and I think the reason they’re not so upset that he suggests God works on the Sabbath is because that was a common assumption held by lots of Jews in that time period.

  00:18:45 Even though the beginning of Genesis 2 makes it clear that God rested on the Sabbath, a lot of Jews pointed out that that must have been a one-time thing for God and that God must, in our day, work on the Sabbath, and their logic for that is just look around. Plants continue to grow on the Sabbath, babies are born on the Sabbath, the world keeps on spinning on the Sabbath, which means God, who controls everything in the universe, must still be working on the Sabbath.

Hank Smith: 00:19:18 Still working.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:19:19 So they’re not upset that Jesus is saying the Father works on the Sabbath. That’s common knowledge for them. What they’re upset with is that they see Jesus working on the Sabbath and Jesus making himself equal to God, they say. Once again, Jesus, rather than diffusing the situation, doubles down again, and in verse 19, says, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for the things soever he doeth, these the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth all things to him that he himself doeth,” and so on.

  00:19:57 And then goes on to give other examples where the Father “raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.” Again, doubling down on the equivalence between himself and the Father. Now, it’s interesting that Jesus went with this particular example, quickeneth, just fancy old King James English meaning giving life, and that was one of the arguments they made for God working on the Sabbath. They said God works on the Sabbath because you can see plants are still growing, babies are still born. In other words, God is still giving life to the world on the Sabbath, but here Jesus is saying, “I’m doing it too. God has given me, the Son, the power to quickeneth whom he will.”

John Bytheway: 00:20:40 Yeah. In fact, I have a note from Elder Talmage about this. The Saviors reply to their charges is not confined to the question of Sabbath observance. It stands as the most comprehensive sermon in scripture on the vital subject of the relationship between the Eternal Father and His son Jesus Christ. So that’s exactly what you’re saying. That’s in Jesus the Christ in page 208, but yeah, it’s about instead of, like you said, instead of diffusing the situation, he explained, “Yeah, this is how I’m like the father.”

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:21:11 Yeah. And he continues to give other examples of that. John 5:26, “Where the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself,” and so on. It seems like by around verse 30, verse 31, it seems like Jesus is anticipating that those listening to him are going to say Jesus is sure talking a lot about himself. So in verse 31, Jesus shifts gears a little bit and says, “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true,” and then he starts talking about those who do bear witness to him, and it’s interesting that all of this is happening in the context of, let me point to just a couple of verses and see if you can pick up on the stage that Jesus is setting for us. Look at John 5:22.

  00:22:03 “The father judges no man but have committed all judgment to his Son.” Verse 27, “And have given him authority to execute judgment.” Verse 30, “I judge and my judgment is just.” Now moving into verse 31 and following, “If I bear witness of myself,” and then he’s going to start identifying in verse 36, “I have a greater witness.” Back in verse 33, “He bear witnessed.” We moved from Jesus mentioning judgment, judgment, judgment. Now we’re talking about witnesses and then by the time we get down to verse 45, “There is one that accuseth you.” He has transformed this whole discourse, this dialogue with the Jews into a trial scene where it’s no longer Jesus who is being put on trial. They came to him and accused him of breaking the Sabbath. He has now turned the tables and it’s now them who are on trial. He is bringing witnesses in for himself and in the end, it’s Moses that accuses them.

Hank Smith: 00:23:13 He knows how to control a conversation.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:23:15 Yeah, no kidding.

John Bytheway: 00:23:16 I love it when, what is it, the end of Matthew, “No man asked him any more questions.” [inaudible 00:23:22], you’ll lose. You can’t tangle with this guy.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:23:27 Let’s take a look at some of these witnesses he calls for himself. He, first of all, acknowledges that if he bears witness of himself, his witness isn’t true. So he’s saying don’t just trust what I am saying. Don’t trust my own witness of myself. There are other witnesses. Then he goes and mentions that they had sent to John and that John bears witness of the truth, but then he says, “But I received not testimony from a man.” So he says, you don’t even have to trust John’s testimony. In verse 36, he says that the Father has given him certain works and that the works he does, those bear witness of him.

  00:24:09 So Jesus’ works that he is performing, presumably these signs as well as the teachings, these bear witness of him and of the Father. Then in verse 37, “The Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.” So the Father bears witness of him. Now, Jesus acknowledges in that verse that they haven’t heard the voice of the Father. They need to be paying a little better attention, but that the Father does bear witness of him. Now in verse 39, he suggests that the scriptures bear witness of him.

Hank Smith: 00:24:47 They testify of me.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:24:49 Yes. Now this verse, we should talk a little about the way this is translated in the King James version. It’s translated a little bit different in other versions. It’s not that the King James translators are wrong grammatically. To get kind of technical here, the Greek that lies behind this, the phrase we’re talking about is the very beginning of 5:39, “search the scriptures.” That’s a command the way they’ve translated it in the King James version, search the scriptures, and sometimes we’ve used it that way. We’ve used it as to encourage our youth. Look, the scriptures tell you you need to search the scriptures. Now the institute manual helpfully corrects this, but it doesn’t really explain why because there’s really not a whole lot of room in the institute manual to give technical Greek explanations, but here’s the technical explanation.

  00:25:42 In the Greek, the second person plural, present active indicative form of the verb looks exactly the same as the second person plural, present active imperative. In other words, if you don’t have any other context to go on, if you were to see this Greek verb, it could be translated either as the command, search the scriptures, or as a present verb saying you all are searching the scriptures, and actually, based on the context, I think that second translation fits the context a little better. It seems to me what Jesus is telling them is that they are searching the scriptures because they think that in those scriptures, they have eternal life. Jesus then goes on to point out that the scriptures testify of Jesus. It’s in Jesus that they have eternal life, not in the book. The book just points to Jesus. So don’t think that you are getting eternal life out of the book. The point of the book is to point to Jesus.

Hank Smith: 00:26:56 Yeah, it looks like almost every other translation.

John Bytheway: 00:26:59 It starts out you search the scriptures because you think you have eternal life in there, but they testify of me and you’re not willing to come to me, which is a different meaning.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:27:09 That’s right.

Hank Smith: 00:27:09 This one is you pour over the scriptures because you preserve that by them, you possess eternal life.

John Bytheway: 00:27:16 Can I quote Dr. Andrew Skinner that we’ve had on the program before? He said, “Jesus is actually being a bit reproving here. He’s saying in essence, you study the scriptures because you think that activity brings eternal life, but the scriptures testify of me and I give eternal life. The Jewish sages of Jesus’ day believe that the act of studying the Torah brought eternal life, but Jesus pointedly taught that the scriptures do not bring salvation. Sacred writ was given to testify of him and he, God, was the vehicle of salvation.” That’s in his books, Prophets, Priests and Kings, page two.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:27:53 That’s great.

John Bytheway: 00:27:54 But I have really enjoyed that because I have thought that we have misquoted that for years. Search the scriptures for in them, you think… No, because it’s you think you have eternal life in the scriptures. You don’t. You have eternal life in me and the scriptures testify of me, so that part’s true. They are they which testify of me, but you’re not willing to come to me and I love what you’ve done here, Jason, is listing the witnesses, so I’ve got in my margin. Okay. John was a witness, my works, my signs and teachings are a witness, the Father is a witness and the scriptures testify of me.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:28:31 Yeah. We have one more witness.

John Bytheway: 00:28:33 And one more coming.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:28:34 In John 5:46, Jesus said, “For had you believed Moses, you would have believed me for he wrote of me.” So in the verse right before that, that’s where Jesus said, “There’s one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.”

John Bytheway: 00:28:51 Wow. And Moses was such a big deal to them. I’ve always thought about the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said, “Yeah, you’ve heard it said of old time this, but I say this,” and they’re like, “Who do you think you are?” “Well, I was the one who talked to Moses. That was me in the bush there,” and you’ve heard it said of old time this, Moses, but I say that was that audacious statement of who he was. Okay, here’s my question, Jason. For he wrote of me, implicit or more symbolically because I know the Book of Mormon says that didn’t Moses raise a brazen serpent and then testify that that’s the son of God, and I’m like, well, that’s not in Numbers, but it’s in the Book of Mormon that it was that explicit. This is the son of God, but you don’t see it in the Old Testament. So when he says he wrote of me, more implied?

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:29:44 I would take it as implied and what I’m thinking of is in the Gospel of Luke, after Jesus has been resurrected and he meets those two disciples on the road to Emmaus, that’s another one of those examples of the disciples still not understanding who Jesus is. Even after his death, when Jesus meets with them and they don’t recognize that it’s Jesus resurrected, walking with them, they start to tell him of what has happened and of how Jesus died, and it’s interesting that they say we thought he was the Messiah. The implication seems to be, “Yeah, we thought he was the Messiah, but then he died,” and it’s interesting that the very next thing Jesus does is it says he opens the scriptures unto them. So it takes Jesus after his resurrection, helping his disciples to learn to read the scriptures that then they begin to see Jesus in the scriptures.

John Bytheway: 00:30:36 Isn’t it ought not Christ to have died, doesn’t he say it that way? Wait.

Hank Smith: 00:30:40 Yeah. To have suffered these things.

John Bytheway: 00:30:42 How did you miss this?

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:30:43 Yeah. Talking about Moses in 5:46 there sets us up nicely for the context of chapter six.

John Bytheway: 00:30:50 Yeah. Here comes the manna thing. Yeah.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:30:53 That’s right. John tells us in 6:4 that it’s near time for the Passover. So the events of the Passover provide us the context for understanding the events that happened in John 6. Now of course, Passover commemorates the events of the Exodus. So it’s all about how Israel was redeemed from slavery in Egypt and redeemed by the Lord through Moses leading them out of Egypt, and then of course, as part of that, they cross the Red Sea on dry ground and then they wander in the wilderness for 40 years, that time surviving off of just the Lord providing manna or quail in one instance, bread miraculously provided from heaven. So Passover commemorated all of this.

  00:31:39 And if you look at a summary of what you find in John 6, we see events that parallel all of those things I just described at Passover, the miraculous feeding of the multitude, the miraculous feeding of 5,000 parallels Israel being miraculously fed by manna in the wilderness, and then of course, by John 6:22 and following, Jesus goes into a discourse on bread from heaven and that discourse involves discussion about one of the responses they give to him in 6:31 is our fathers did eat manna in the desert as it is written. He gave them bread from heaven to eat and then Jesus quotes that back to them in verse 49, “Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness.” So the context is thinking about Passover, is thinking about wandering in the wilderness.

  00:32:30 I skipped right over the event before the bread from heaven discourse. In between the miraculous feeding of the multitude and the bread from heaven discourse, we get Jesus walking on water. You think Moses parting the Red Sea is miraculous, Jesus doesn’t even need to part the sea. He just walks right over the top of it. We get all of these events, all of these signs. Remember these, we are coming back to some of our signs here now. We get the sign of Jesus miraculously feeding the multitude and the sign of Jesus walking on water pointing to Jesus as a new Moses and as more than Moses because he’s doing something more than Moses had done. Moses announced that food would be provided for Israel, but it was God from heaven that provided that food. It was God that provided, it was manna from heaven, bread from heaven.

John Bytheway: 00:33:20 I love how Jesus says that there because they’re like our fathers did eat manna in the desert. He gave them bread from heaven to eat, talking about Moses in Jesus in verse 32. Moses gave you not the bread. That was my father who gave you the bread.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:33:34 That’s right. So because we’ve already spent so much time on the multiplication of the loaves and fishes and on walking on water, I think we can skip over those two stories in John and get into Jesus’ teachings here, but I do want to point out one detail that John adds that is very different from what is in Matthew and Mark. This is right at the end of the miracle of multiplying the loaves and fishes. In verse 16 and 15 of John chapter 6, the people having experienced this miracle of the multiplication of the loaves and fishes recognize that Jesus is a prophet, and then verse 15 tells us that Jesus perceives that they are going to come and take him by force to make him king. So it’s at that point that Jesus departs into a mountain by himself alone.

  00:34:25 Now I think that detail is really important in the context of the Gospel of John because it sets us up for a heartbreak. At this point, there’s a multitude of 5,000 people who are ready to make Jesus king, and by the end of John 6, by the time we get to John 6:66, we learned that from that time, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him. What we are going to witness as we continue in this chapter is the tragic loss of all of these disciples, these people who are ready to make Jesus king, but it seems like they’re ready to make Jesus king when they think that he is something different than what he is and he’s about to teach them who he actually is. He’s not going to be a Moses-like king.

  00:35:22 Some Jewish traditions in the time did describe Moses as being like a king. He’s not going to be a David-like king. He is going to be a different kind of king, a king not of this world as he will explain later in the Gospel of John. Let’s take a look at what Jesus teaches them that causes many of them to turn away. So moving into the bread from heaven discourse that begins in John 6:22. In John 6:26, Jesus answers them and says, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, ye seek me not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat the loaves and were filled.” So according to Jesus here, they’re not seeking him because of what he did was miraculous, but because they got a free meal out of it.

  00:36:09 So Jesus has identified that and says that’s a problem and he is going to teach them a little more about that now. Now before we leave this first, I think it’s worth pointing out that in this King James version translation, it says because ye saw the miracles. It’s actually not the best translation. The Greek word behind that is Samaya, which means signs. We talked about this a little bit earlier and John, John doesn’t talk about Jesus performing miracles even though what Jesus does is quite miraculous. John always calls them signs. His point is that these miraculous actions Jesus is performing point us to Jesus, point us to who Jesus is, and that’s exactly what Jesus’ critique is here, that they saw the sign and instead of recognizing that it was about Jesus and that they need to understand who he is, they were excited about the free meal and they want more.

Hank Smith: 00:37:03 I quote Philippians 3:19 to my boys all the time, “Your God is your belly,” Paul says.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:37:10 I think that is true of all teenagers.

Hank Smith: 00:37:12 Yes.

John Bytheway: 00:37:14 The way to a man’s heart through his stomach.

Hank Smith: 00:37:16 We keep Costco in business. Yes.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:37:20 So then Jesus goes on to teach them that they need to not labor for the kind of food, the kind of meat that perishes, but for meat that endureth to everlasting life, which the son of man shall give you. So now Jesus is going to start to teach them what this food is that gives everlasting life and help them to understand ultimately, that it is Him. Skipping ahead to John 6:30. Notice here, the King James version does translate as sign. Here, it’s them asking Jesus, “What signs showest thou then that we may see and believe thee? What dost thou work? Our fathers did eat manna in the desert as it is written.” He gave them bread from heaven to eat. Notice how they’re putting it in the form of a question, but they’re trying to get Jesus to perform the miracle. They’re just asking him to perform again. They’re still after the free meal.

Hank Smith: 00:38:14 Trying to use the scriptures to trick him.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:38:16 Exactly. Jesus had just shown them a version of this miracle, a version of the fathers eating manna in the desert. It’s not that they didn’t see that. They saw it and they’re trying to get Jesus to do it again. So Jesus then responds to them and says, “Yeah, you’re right. Moses is not the one that gave you that bread from heaven though. It was actually my father who giveth you the true bread from heaven,” and then he goes on to explain in verse 35, “I am the bread from heaven. He that cometh to me shall never hunger and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”

  00:38:53 They quoted that passage about he gaveth them bread from heaven to eat. Notice that Jesus goes on to explain how he is the bread of life in verse 38, “For I came down from heaven.” So Jesus is putting himself in direct parallel to that passage they quoted at him about bread from heaven that he then quoted back, bread from heaven. Now he’s saying, “Yes, you’re right. I am the bread of life. I came down from heaven,” and goes on to explain not to do my own will, but the will of Him that sent me.

John Bytheway: 00:39:27 And we recall here that he was born in Bethlehem, which means house of bread. We brought this up at the Christmas thing, but I think it’s him calling himself the bread of life and coming from that place is a nice connection.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:39:41 Yeah. So this idea of Jesus being the bread from heaven, that would not be unfamiliar, that concept of bread from heaven being something more than manna is not a concept that’s unfamiliar to Jews in that time period. Think about the passage in Matthew and Luke that Jesus quotes during his temptations, during his temptations where Satan tries to tempt Jesus to turn a stone into bread. Jesus responds by quoting a passage from Deuteronomy 8. Now the temptations are not in John, but this is a passage, Deuteronomy 8 is a passage that was familiar to lots of people in that time and here’s what it says. This is Deuteronomy chapter 8 verse 2 and 3. “And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these 40 years in the wilderness.”

  00:40:30 So once again, reminding us we’re talking about wilderness, we’re talking about manna and the wilderness, “To humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldst keep his commandments, or no, and he humbled thee and suffered thee to hunger and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not. Neither did thy fathers know that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceed out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.” Okay. So keep that in the background here. This is a teaching that was familiar to them. They knew that the manna was not just manna, but that manna could also point them to bread from heaven and that man must not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of Lord.

  00:41:22 Of course, for John, the word of God is Jesus. We got that from John 1. Jesus is called the word of God that comes down from heaven. Now in the Old Testament, there are other figures who are described as being bread from heaven, most commonly, wisdom that is often personified. For instance, in Proverbs 9, it describes wisdom and then says in 9:5, wisdom is speaking and says, “Come, eat of my bread and drink of the wine which I have mingled,” symbolically saying, you need to ingest wisdom. You need to take wisdom into you. There’s another example of that in an apocryphal text that lots of Jews in this time period were familiar with. It’s called Sirach, or the wisdom of Ben Sira.

  00:42:18 If you happen to have a Bible that has the apocrypha in it, the deutero canonical books, it will have a book called Sirach or Wisdom of Ben Sira, and that book also talks a lot about wisdom, and in one instance, it describes wisdom, once again personifying wisdom. It says, “Whosoever fears the Lord will do this and whosoever holds to law will obtain wisdom.” Then it goes on to describe what it is wisdom does, and in Wisdom of Ben Sira or Sirach 15:3, it says, “Wisdom will feed him with the bread of learning and give him the water of wisdom to drink.”

Hank Smith: 00:42:55 This shouldn’t be lost on them.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:42:57 No, no. At this point, their reaction to this is not negative. Their reaction is not how can somebody possibly compare themselves to bread? They’re still on the same page. They murmur in John 6:41 because he said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” It seems like it’s once again, they’re having this problem with him equating himself with God, with being the one who came down from heaven, and it’s here in John, this is the context in verse 42 where the people say, “Now, wait a minute. Isn’t this the son of Joseph whose father and mother we know?”

Hank Smith: 00:43:39 What does he mean?

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:43:40 How is he saying he’s come down from heaven? We know his mom and dad. What’s he talking about, he’s come down from heaven? Well, Jesus has been trying to explain to him who his father is and they still haven’t quite got that point, that his father is Heavenly Father. So Jesus then continues in verse 43, says, “Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me except the Father.” He’s trying to clarify for them, my father’s not Joseph, “Except the Father which hath sent me draw him and I will raise him up at the last day.” Now, Joseph Smith provides a little bit more here where he adds to the words of the Gospel of John some words that are quite similar to things that Jesus says elsewhere in the Gospel of John.

  00:44:26 So here, the Joseph Smith translation of verse 44 is, “No man can come unto me except he doeth the will of my Father who hath sent me,” and that’s something that John makes quite clear elsewhere. Joseph Smith goes on and says, “And this is the will of Him who hath sent me that ye receive the Son for the Father beareth record of him.” It’s going back to that idea that we saw in the previous chapter of the witnesses or in the previous verses of the witnesses of Jesus. The Father beareth record of him and he who receiveth the testimony and doeth the will of Him who sent me, I will raise up at the resurrection of the just. So that is a nice summary of a lot of Jesus’s teachings here from this sermon and some of the other sermons as well. So now things get more complicated and we’re going to see one more instance where Jesus, rather than diffusing the situation that’s causing the murmuring, once again will double down on it.

Hank Smith: 00:45:18 Makes it a little harder.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:45:19 Yeah, makes things a little bit harder. So in verse 48, Jesus once again reiterates I am the bread of life, and now he explains what he means by that. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness and are dead. That wasn’t the bread of life. That was a kind of miraculously provided bread. It was a kind of bread from heaven, but if anything, it was a sign that pointed to Jesus, who is the bread of life. So it continues here in verse 50, “This bread which cometh down from heaven, a man must may eat thereof and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

Hank Smith: 00:46:10 He just made it a little harder.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:46:12 Yeah. Things are starting to sound a little bit weird here. So bread of life is fine. They could understand that. They could say, “Okay, Jesus is speaking metaphorically here. He’s saying he’s providing wisdom for them,” but now it just took a weird turn because now he’s saying this bread is literally his flesh? Is that what he’s saying? Now remember, in its chronological context here, Jesus has not introduced the sacrament. I think we often come to this with that lens already and say, “Yeah, okay. So now Jesus is switching gears. He’s helping us to understand the sacrament,” which other Christians call the Eucharist or communion.

  00:46:53 And I think we can have a really important discussion here about what this teaches us about the sacrament. So I do want to have that discussion in a minute, but before we get to that discussion, I think it’s worth staying in the literary context here and remembering Jesus has not provided them any teachings about the sacrament yet. So when he’s saying, “I am the bread of life, you have to eat my flesh,” that is sounding very strange. So it really shouldn’t surprise us that in the very next verse, the Jews respond, this is verse 52 now, it says, “The Jews therefore strove among themselves saying, how can this man give us his flesh to eat?” They’re going, “All right, what is going on here? What is he saying?”

Hank Smith: 00:47:37 That just took a weird turn.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:47:38 Once again, Jesus is not going to diffuse the situation. He’s going to double down and in the next verse, Jesus says to them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.” Okay. Now things just got complicated. Jesus just doubled down on everything they were struggling with. Now, Genesis 9:4, after the flood, the flood has ended, the arc has landed. They get off the arc, God makes a covenant with Noah and God promises Noah he’s never going to flood the earth again, but part of this covenant, covenants are always two-way promises here.

  00:48:26 God’s promise is he’s never going to flood the earth again and he’s going to put a rainbow in the sky so you can remember it, but human beings, all the descendants of Noah need to promise some other things, and one of those promises is in 9:4 where it says, “But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, ye shall not eat.” This is a command that Jews understood to be universal. This was not just for Jews. They didn’t think anybody should be eating blood because blood is symbolic of life, and now here Jesus is saying, “If you want life, if you want everlasting life, you need to not only eat the flesh of the son of man, but drink his blood.” This just got really complicated for them.

Hank Smith: 00:49:18 Yeah. If he wanted to make it easier to understand, he definitely didn’t.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:49:23 Yeah. So skipping ahead to verse 60, it’s totally understandable why with this teaching, they respond, “It’s a hard saying; who can understand it,” and then by verse 66, we get that verse that says, “From that time, many of the disciples went back and walked no more with him.” Well now, we have the advantage of hearing it in a slightly different way. For us today and for all Christian readers of the Gospel of John, whether it’s in ancient times or today, we read this through the lens of the sacrament. We read this as Jesus helping people to understand what the Eucharist, what the communion, what we call the sacrament, what that really means.

  00:50:04 And I think putting on that lens can really help us to get some insights about the meaning of the sacrament and really appreciate why we do this every single week. So let’s continue reading what Jesus teaches about here. John 6:54, “Whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood,” he reiterates it again, “Hath eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day.” Okay, Jesus. How? How does this work? Why are we doing this? Verse 55, “For my flesh is meat indeed and my blood is drink indeed and he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood dwelleth in me and I in him as the living Father hath sent me and I live by the Father so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.”

  00:51:01 He is describing the sacrament as us symbolically taking Jesus’ body and blood, symbolically taking Jesus’ whole person into ourselves. Early Christians understood this in lots of different ways that I think adds some extra meaning. A Christian named Tertullian writing at the end of second century, early third century, somebody who I talk about quite a bit in that book, Ancient Christians, that we spoke of at the beginning, Tertullian describes it like this. Our flesh feeds on the body and blood of Christ that our soul may likewise be filled with God.

  00:51:40 Some other ancient Christians understood the sacrament to function like an antidote, like a serum or antidote to the death caused by eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So a tree of knowledge of good and evil that causes death from eating it, you’re taking death into yourself even though it also brought knowledge of good and evil. So now we need the tree of life and the fruit of the tree of life, which in this case is Jesus, the bread of life. We ingest that. We take life into ourselves, which cures us of the death that we partook of by entering into this world.

Hank Smith: 00:52:15 See it as an antidote. That’s interesting.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:52:17 Yeah. Gregory of Nyssa, some of our fellow Christians who also firmly believe in the importance of the sacrament, but see things a little bit differently from us. I’m thinking of Roman Catholics in the medieval period, they’d started to describe the way the sacrament works using the word transubstantiation. They believe that as the priest pronounce the word of blessing over the bread and wine, that it is transformed literally into the body and blood of Christ. It’s not in form like you look at it and still looks like bread and wine, but you are literally ingesting Jesus and that that is life that you are taking into yourselves. I think oftentimes in church, we talk about it more in symbolic terms.

  00:53:04 At the same time, I don’t think we would go as so far as some of our Protestant brothers and sisters would go to say it is purely symbolic because we absolutely believe in the power of the priesthood. In fact, we believe that God gave priesthood to us and that priesthood has to be used with the proper keys and authority to pronounce the words of blessing over the bread and water, and if those words are mispronounced, if they are not pronounced properly, they need to be pronounced again. You need to say the whole prayer over again. So we absolutely believe that priesthood power is involved and that the sacrament is therefore not only symbolic, it is powerful and effectual because priesthood power is involved.

  00:53:50 That it actually, it does something for us. Again, I don’t think we would go so far as the Catholics to say that the water and the bread is transformed into something else, that it is literally transformed into the flesh and blood of Jesus, but we would say that that power and authority of God has to be present in order for the sacrament to be functional. So it’s more than just a symbol. Symbolism is absolutely involved, but it’s more than a symbol because power and authority needs to be there as part of our renewing our covenants and taking the name of Christ upon us again every week.

  00:54:27 I really like this symbolism of literally taking Jesus into ourselves, of taking into ourselves that which gives us life, becoming one with him as he is one with the Father. He’s already hinting at that sort of language here, even though we won’t get that precise language till a little bit later in John, but he’s hinting at it here that the Father has given him life. He lives by the Father and that as we eat him, now we live by him. I think it’s just a really, really beautiful way of thinking about it.

John Bytheway: 00:55:00 Sister Ardeth Kapp, I don’t know if you guys remember, she was in the general young women’s president years ago when she told a story about traveling around the churches they do and staying in a home, and a little eight-year-old Brent was like, “Have you ever met the prophet,” and she said, “Yes,” and he said, “Boy, I’d like to meet the prophet,” and she said, “Shake my hand. Now you can say you’re shaking hands with someone who’s shaken hands with the prophet,” and he said, “I’ll never wash my hand,” and Sister Kapp thought, okay, that could be a problem. So she said, “Why don’t you wash your hands, but just remember in here.”

  00:55:32 And he said, “Well, I’m going to wash my hands, but I’m going to save the water.” So he went in the other room. When he came back in, he had a bag of water and they were like, “That’s a nice way to remember.” He scurried off again and the next time he came back, Sister Kapp said he had water on his shirt, water on his t-shirt, and they said, “What happened,” and he proudly announced, “I drank the water.” Sister Kapp made it beautiful. She said, “I told him that he could just remember in here, but he wanted so much to remember this experience that he took the water and he put it inside,” and she kind of made a comparison to the sacrament with that. I think it was Elder Bruce C. Hafen that we’ve had on the program who said when we take the sacrament, we kind of assimilate the atonement into ourselves. We take the water and the bread inside. So anyways, thought that was a cute story.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:56:24 I think there’s a tendency in modern culture to spiritualize things, to dismiss the importance of the material, and yet we are material beings. I think it’s really important that we have these moments in our religious life where we connect with God through material actions, whether that’s being immersed in water, whether that’s eating some food, whether that’s going through the process of the endowment in the temple. All of those are very tangible, physical actions that help us as material physical beings to make a connection between ourselves and the divine, to connect with something beyond ourselves.

John Bytheway: 00:57:08 When I think about, and I guess we’ll talk more about this when we get to the last supper, but the Lord would have us perform this simple thing each week, as you said. We don’t just say something. We take something and put it inside. I think it’s so interesting. The things the Lord has us repeat fascinate me and that’s one of them, and I remember the day, I think it was something that Stephen Covey said, but I equated the bread and the water of the sacrament with Moses 1:39 because of the bread, because of Jesus’ body will live forever, will be resurrected, but because of the blood, the Atonement, we can not only live forever, but have eternal life, which is a quality of life, not just a duration of life. Next to verse 51, I noticed this in here, 51, take the bread, live forever. That’s immortality. Verse 54, drink the blood, eternal life, and he uses those different phrases just the same way Moses 1:39 does.

Dr. Jason Combs: 00:58:12 Very nice. To continue on with the story then, the disciples cannot deal with what Jesus is teaching. We need to take off our sacrament lenses and remember these disciples are hearing this teaching for the first time in the context of John, and it is strange to them and foreign to them. It seems to them to go against that covenant that the Lord made with Noah back in Genesis 9. So it shouldn’t surprise us that we get this passage that describes them saying this is a hard saying in verse 60, who can hear it, and then just a few verses later, learning that at this time in verse 66, that many of the disciples went back and walked no more with him, and that leads us into the conclusion of Mark 6, where Jesus then turns to the 12 and says, “Will ye also go away?”

  00:59:07 I’m starting to get a little emotional here because this is a passage that’s meant a lot to me in my life at several important moments. Simon Peter then answers, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life and we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the son of the living God.” It’s a powerful passage for me. It’s one that came to me at a time I wasn’t expecting it. It’s not something I had been studying at the time. It’s something that I’m sure that I first learned in early morning seminary. I attended a couple of years of early morning seminary as I was working on joining the church, and the first time this passage really impacted me was on my mission, I was called to serve in Columbia, or actually, I was called to serve in Venezuela. Then I couldn’t get my visa.

  00:59:58 So then I was recalled to serve in the Columbia Bogota North Mission. That meant that I had to spend a little extra time in the missionary training center and because of that, a lot of us were really struggling. It’s a challenge for any young woman or young man who serves a mission and who hasn’t been away from home much before to suddenly be away from home and to be in a very taxing, very difficult situation where you are spending all day, every day fully immersed in scriptures and learning a language sometimes, in learning missionary discussions, in practicing teaching people. It’s an intense experience, and I remember a time where my entire missionary district were feeling lost and where a lot of us were wondering, maybe we should just give up.

  01:00:53 Maybe we should just go home. So let me share one more instance where this passage really impacted me. It was not easy for me to get into a PhD program, at least not into the one that I really wanted to be in. One of the challenges for me was applying to these PhD programs. To get somebody to really pay attention to your application, you have to do really well on the GRE, on the graduate record exam. If you’re applying to medical school or to a law program, there are different sorts of standardized tests like these, and for me, it was incredibly challenging. It was actually after completing my first master’s degree that I learned that I have attention deficit disorder.

  01:01:34 And that was probably the reason why time and time again, I would take the standardized test and could not get the grade up high enough that I could get into a PhD program. So after laboring literally for years to get that grade up high enough that I could get into a PhD program, I found myself, I can still picture the place, I was in this park in New Haven, Connecticut. We lived in New Haven while I was attending Columbia. So by now, I was working on my second master’s program that didn’t require a high GRE score to get into, and I remember being in this park alone. I went there just to have some time to myself and reflect, and I remember actually feeling angry, feeling angry with God. I felt that God had called me to study what I was studying and that alone was a difficult decision.

  01:02:33 It was incredibly difficult to decide not to pursue a two-year psychology master’s degree and instead go into a two to three year master’s program at Yale and then another year at Columbia. And then there was a year in between where I was doing other things, all the time just trying to make ends meet as I had a young family, and so I feel like God had called me to do these things and I was feeling like, why, Lord, have you called me to do this and yet time and again, I’m failing and I’m not feeling like you’re helping me, and I started not only to get mad at God, but to feel like maybe this is all just in my mind. Maybe I’m making this up. Maybe it was just my own wish to do this, and maybe even there is no God. It was at that point that this passage came to me one more time.

  01:03:28 I felt the blessings I’ve received from the gospel, I know that there is a God and I am confident that God has inspired me and guided me in my life and called me to do these things, and I felt once again to say, “Lord, to whom should I go? Where else could I turn? Thou hast the words of eternal life and I believe that thou art the Christ.” Of course, there is a happy ending to that story. It turns out that year, I did get into multiple PhD programs and was able to select the one that I was most excited about. There is a happy ending to that story, but oftentimes in my life, I found that God allows me to get up just to that point where I can’t see any other possibility, where I can’t see how things are going to turn or where things are going to end up, and then he steps in and provides the answer for me. I’m grateful for this passage that has meant so much to me at those moments in my life.

Hank Smith: 01:04:33 Thank you, Jason, for sharing that, and thank you for spending your time with us today. I’ve learned so much. I can’t believe how much I’ve been missing as I pass by some verses and don’t know what I’m missing. So thank you for pointing those out and thank you for being here. We’re just grateful for you.

Dr. Jason Combs: 01:04:52 Thank you. This was great.

Hank Smith: 01:04:55 We want to thank Dr. Jason Combs for his time and his expertise today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, and of course, we always remember our founder, the late Steve Sorensen, and we hope all of you will join us next week. We have more coming up in the New Testament on Follow Him. Today’s transcripts, show notes, and additional references are available on our website, followhim.co, followhim.co, and you can watch the podcast on YouTube with additional videos on Facebook and Instagram. All of this is absolutely free, so be sure to share with your family and friends. To reach those who are searching for help with their Come, Follow Me study, please subscribe, rate, review, or comment on the podcast, which makes the podcast easier to find. Thank you.

Hank Smith: 01:05:42 We have an amazing production crew we want you to know about. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilson, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, and Ariel Cuadra. Thank you to our amazing production team.