John Bytheway: 00:00:01 Welcome to part two with Dr. Gaye Strathearn. Matthew chapter one and Luke chapter one.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:00:07 The next thing I like is verses 46 down to verse 55. This has a technical term, it’s known as the Magnificat. Magnificat is just Latin for means to magnify, and it’s given that name because in these verses, we have Mary’s response to this great experience in her life. How did Mary feel about this? So, come with me as we go through this. And Mary says, “My soul doth magnify the Lord. My spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior, for he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden.” In other words, he’s picked me. I’m a nowhere person from a nowhere place. Why does he pick me? But because he has, behold from hence forth all generations shall call me blessed, for he that is mighty has done to me great things, and holy is his name. And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

  00:01:21 Now in both Hebrew and Greek, the word fear is not like a Halloween fear, but it is the fear of entering the presence of God, because we understand and reverence that he is something so much more than us. And the other thing I like about here is Mary acknowledging God’s mercy. I don’t know about you, but I’ve heard it said a couple of times or more that the God of the Old Testament is a God of justice. The God of the New Testament is a God of mercy. And I don’t like that, because if you read the Old Testament carefully, what did the people there think of him? Repeatedly, they’re talking about his mercy. And Mary, as young as she is, is acknowledging that God is a God of mercy. He hath showed strength with his arm. He hath scattered the proud and the imagination of their hearts. He hath put down the mighty from their seats, perhaps those who thought that the Messiah would come through their lineage or through their family, and he has exalted them of low degree. Me.

  00:02:28 He has filled the hungry with good things and the rich he has sent empty away. He has helped his servant Israel in remembrance of his mercy, as He spoke of our fathers Abraham and to his seed forever. To me, I’m seeing here is Mary, even as young as she may have been, she has a sense of the Abrahamic covenant and what that means. And she’s the realization that what is happening here is, and she’s going to be a part of the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant. But look at these contrasts between the strong, the rich, and the people of low estate. This sets up, as I mentioned before, the Gospel of Luke where God is going to choose the poor, the women, the people of lower estate to play a part in the rolling forth of the kingdom of God. His message is for all people, and in this story here of Mary, we see all of that taking place in really beautiful and powerful ways, I think.

John Bytheway: 00:03:32 I once put Mary’s Magnificat next to Nephi’s Psalm in second Nephi four and was surprised how similar they were. Both of them say they’re highly favored, Mary in a state of exaltation and Nephi in a state of “O wretched man that I am,” but both of them went to God in those circumstances, which I loved. And when I circled the pronoun that Mary’s not saying, “I, I, I, I.” She’s saying, “He’s done this, he’s done this, he’s done this.” And Nephi does the same thing. “He has preserved me upon the waters of the deep. He has done this, he has done this.” And I thought, “Isn’t that interesting to see where they went in times of both great joy and in times of feeling wretched as Nephi did, they both went to God and found strength there?”

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:04:27 I love that because this morning as I was thinking through this, I guess it hasn’t jumped out to me before, it goes on then and talks about the birth of John the Baptist and then we get Zacharias, also gives this Benedictus, this praising of God in his experience. And he’s also doing things like emphasizing God’s mercy and the covenant and Abraham, and seeing what’s happening not just with Jesus but with John, how we also have this fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant. So, as I think about this and think about, “Okay, what am I going to learn from Mary about what it means to be a disciple of Jesus Christ?” I think the last thing, that principle of discipleship I think about here, is how do I praise God of all of the great things that he has done in my life? Are there ways that I sing his praises from the rooftops to all who can hear?

  00:05:31 And I’ve thought about that and thought, “Okay, so maybe I should sit down and write down or declare publicly to anyone within the sound of my voice that God is good. That he knows me even though I’m a no one, that he has a plan for me. And if I can just have the faith in him and his omnipotence, and that he sees things in eternal ways that I can’t get my head around, am I willing to step up to the plate and be like Mary and say to him, ‘Here I am, Lord. If you need someone to help in some way in this kingdom of God, pick me.’ Am I preparing myself to be able to do that?” But declaring to all that I draw my line in the stand, here I stand. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ. I choose him even though I don’t know all of the answers.

  00:06:46 I have lots of questions, but it’s that stepping up and saying, “I’m willing to be a part of this kingdom. I want to be a part of this kingdom, and use me in whatever way I can do, even in just minuscule ways to help the kingdom move along the kingdom of God here on earth.” I can do a better job at finding ways to praise God for all the blessings that has come into my life.

Hank Smith: 00:07:15 That’s beautiful, Gaye, and Mary isn’t shy about it, is she? She is willing to tell Elisabeth all that she feels in her heart. I love that the Lord brought them together and how validating that Elisabeth is. “Whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me,” and then Mary does not hold back on how she feels. I think that’s beautiful. And then, you mentioned Zacharias. I’m noticing this theme of the Holy Ghost again.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:07:40 It’s really important in Luke.

Hank Smith: 00:07:42 There it is in verse 15, again in verse 35, verse 41, verse 67. Every character of Luke chapter one is filled with the Holy Ghost at some point.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:07:52 And the idea of mercy comes through also. It’s repeated even in John’s Benedictine.

Hank Smith: 00:07:58 I’m trying to do what you asked us to do and say, ” Okay, why is Luke starting this way?” And maybe something that Luke is preparing us for is this isn’t going to be the story you think it’s going to be. The Lord isn’t going to use the characters you think he’s going to use. He’s going to use people that are going to surprise you, because so far, everyone who’s been used is a surprise. This older couple, this young girl. Maybe Luke chapter one prepares us for the rest of Luke, which is watch out for surprises.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:08:27 Because God knows you, and he’ll find you wherever you are and whatever your situation. Am I ready to step up and say, “Yes?”

Hank Smith: 00:08:35 I’ve always loved this baby blessing from Zacharias to John. He’s had nine months of not speaking to think about it, so it better be good. And it is, especially when he speaks to John himself. This is verse 76. “Thou child shall be called the prophet of the Highest. Go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways.” And he says, “Through the tender mercy of our God,” this is verse 78, “The sunrise hath visited us.” What a beautiful baby blessing, how tender that Zacharias came around. I don’t know exactly why he was struck dumb because he didn’t believe, but he does now.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:09:15 Yeah. And sometimes I think God is going to hold us accountable, but often he does that in ways that allow us to learn and grow in the process. I don’t know about struck dumb, why that in particular happened to Alma the Younger as well and to other people, but I have wondered whether not being able to hear or speak means that your other senses are heightened, and whether this allows for Alma the Younger or for Zacharias the spiritual sense, even though he’s righteous, to be heightened to a new level. The other thing I think is really fun about this is in my mind, verse 59, so this is the eighth day after John is born. The family all gathers together, because this is an important ritual in Judaism. We see it as like a baby blessing, yes, but this is for the young child to be circumcised, and this is when he’s going to get his name given.

  00:10:18 Everybody expects that it’s going to be Zacharias after his dad, but one of the things that I love is that Doctrine and Covenants 84 suggests that there’s something else really quite supernal happening during this time that Luke doesn’t mention. In 84 verse 28, it says, talking about John and how he leaped in the womb, “For he was baptized while he was yet in his childhood and was ordained by the angel of God at the time he was eight days old.” So, this is happening at the same time as his circumcision and being given his name. So at eight days, and he is ordained unto this power to overthrow the kingdom of the Jews to make straight the way for the Lord before the face of his people, and to prepare them for the coming of the Lord in whose hand is given all power. This was a sacred supernally important experience for both John and his parents.

John Bytheway: 00:11:27 This always brings up an interesting question of John the Baptist. I think I’ve read commentaries that say, “Does that mean he’s ordained to the priesthood, or was it more ordained in a more general sense to this forerunner Elias calling that he’s going to have? Did his father give him the priesthood, or did he get that from the angel, or was the ordaining more of a different kind of ordaining?” What do you think?

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:11:54 I think that’s a really good question. I think Latter-day Saints today have a more specialized interpretation of the word ordain that was used in antiquity. We attach it very much with priesthood and receiving priesthood to a priesthood office. But in the scriptures, that’s used much more broadly. Elder McConkie talking about 84, he says it’s not talking about being ordained to the priesthood, but it’s talking about to what follows, to this power in terms of the Elijah experience. Paul uses the word that’s translated as ordained, and the word in Greek literally is the raising of hands. So we would understand that as sustaining rather than an ordaining, so it’s a much broader term than what we use today.

John Bytheway: 00:12:44 That’s helpful, thank you. I think what’s fun for me is to think of John who was filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb in verse 15. It just seems like he hits the ground running, and it seems like when Jesus chose his apostles, they were like, “Wait, what are we doing?” And Peter was constantly being tutored and corrected, and all of them were I suppose. There’s not a greater prophet than John, because he knew from the beginning what was going on. And I get that sense that the apostles had a slower learning curve.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:13:17 And this is just my reading of it, I think for Jesus, John was kind of like his Rock of Gibraltar. He could trust John, that John would be there, that John would be supporting, that John would be sending his disciples, because he receives disciples before Jesus does and sending them off to Jesus and things like that. And it seems to me that we have this growing learning curve for the other disciples, and it doesn’t seem to be until after the death of John the Baptist that we begin to see Peter step up to the plate. So we have John’s death, and then you see Peter being willing to jump out of the boat and walk towards Jesus. And then, we see Peter giving his Caesarea Philippi, “Thou art the Christ” situation. So it seems to me, at least on some level, once John’s gone, Jesus needs these apostles to step up.

John Bytheway: 00:14:13 Well, I like that.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:14:14 … To help him, to be there for him.

Hank Smith: 00:14:16 How interesting that Elisabeth was there to be the rock for Mary and that John is there to be the rock for Jesus. The relationship continues.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:14:24 It’s wonderful.

John Bytheway: 00:14:26 There’s a Joseph and a Hyrum. I don’t know if that applies, but it’s interesting the pairs that he sent them in.

Hank Smith: 00:14:32 I don’t know why but I’ve never seen these two parallel stories before in Luke, but he wants these two babies connected. That’s just fantastic. You’d think I’d seen this after a couple of decades teaching, that you wouldn’t be able to show me something brand new, but here I am. I was focusing on the couple instead of the babies. When I taught, I always focused on Elisabeth and Zacharias and Mary, and didn’t focus on these two babies being told in parallel stories. So I’m going to use that in my classes from here on out. Really grateful.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:15:04 And look how Luke finishes the story of John in verse 80. “And the child grew and waxed strong in spirit.” So where do we see something similar to that? At the end of…

John Bytheway: 00:15:16 Luke two.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:15:17 Chapter two with Jesus. He increased in words and stature in faith with God and men.” The language isn’t the same, but the idea is. He grew, he waxed strong in the spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his showing onto Israel.

John Bytheway: 00:15:31 When I see that word “waxed,” and I don’t know what the Greek is for waxed, but it always helps me to think of when you go to Nauvoo or to a historic site, and they show how they would dip a string into the wax and then let it dry, and then dip it in again and then let it dry. And it was this little layer by layer growth, and that always helps me when I think of “They waxed strong,” they grew slowly. One of the things that I think is often a topic is their understanding of what the Messiah was going to do. Was it to deliver political Israel, or was it to deliver the house of Israel?

  00:16:08 Well, I’ve always loved verse 77, part of the Benedictus I guess, “To give knowledge of salvation unto his people…” Saving them from the Romans?” “Salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins.” That’s the kind of salvation that is coming. And I think that’s interesting that remission of sins is specifically mentioned there. Not redeeming Israel in the sense of from the Romans. I put in my margin, not military conquest, but remission of sins. We’ve got tougher enemies than the Romans.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:16:42 Whenever I teach New Testament, I like to spend some time looking at the development of Messianic thought in Judaism, what they were thinking about. And there’s this passage from the Psalms of Solomon, which is a mid first century BC document.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:17:00 And I love this because it gives me a sense of just before Jesus was born, what are they thinking about when they’re thinking about Messiah? Let me read it to you. “Behold, oh Lord, and raise up their king, the son of David. At the time which you choose, oh God, to rule over Israel, your servant. And gird him with strength to shatter unjust rulers, to purge Jerusalem from nations that trample her down to destruction.

  00:17:30 “In the wisdom of righteousness, to thrust out sinners from the inheritance, to crush all their substance with an iron rod, to destroy the lawless nations with the word of his mouth.” Very revelation language. “And he will gather together a holy people whom he will lead in righteousness. And he will not allow injustice to lodge anymore in their midst. And no one knowing evil will dwell with them. Blessed are the ones of those days in that they will see the good things of the Lord, which he will perform for the generation that is to come under the rod of discipline of the Lord’s anointed or the Lord’s Mashiach.”

  00:18:15 So there’s a couple of things here. So the Messiah is going to be a king. He’s going to be a son of David. Mary acknowledges those, as Gabriel talks about him. “Strength to shatter unjust rulers.” I think that that’s political, but it also could be in the Old Testament, the unjust spiritual rulers of Israel.

  00:18:36 To thrust out the sinners because they’re gathering together, this Messiah who’s going to create a society of holy people, which is interesting to me because holy people is the word saints. A group of people who are holy, and he will lead them in righteousness.

  00:18:53 So these are the kind of things so that there’s this sense of it’s not just getting rid of political enemies, but it’s creating something wonderful. A holy people who dwell in righteousness. There’s elements of that. It’s a positive thing. And we would think about it in terms of trying to establish Zion and righteousness where Christ can come and rule over his people again.

John Bytheway: 00:19:18 Well, Gaye, this has been wonderful. I’ve got notes all over the place for Luke 1 and now I’m excited to look at Matthew 1. You said that Luke was written Gentiles, rich, poor for everybody. And what unique approach, or if there is one, does Matthew take in Matthew chapter 1?

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:19:36 Yeah, that’s a really good question. Matthew is different from Luke. Both of them are telling the story of Jesus, but they’re doing it for different reasons because of their audience. Matthew seems to have been written to a Jewish Christian audience who is in some tension or had recently split with the synagogue.

  00:19:59 So in Matthew’s editorial passages, the synagogue is referred to as their synagogue, or your synagogue, quite a bit in Matthew. He’s the only one of the four gospels that mentions a church. So that’s probably set in contrast to the synagogue. He refers to their scribes when Mark uses the scribes. And some people have argued that this represents a time during the Jamnia period, about 70 AD to 100 AD when Judaism is seeking to redefine itself after the destruction of the temple. But honestly, there are enough rifts going on in Judaism that it probably could happen any of the times, but there does seems their intention.

  00:20:47 So one of the things that Matthew is trying to do is to, this is a really important to him, is to show that Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy in the Old Testament. It’s almost as if he’s sometimes saying, “Okay, Jesus did this, hang on a minute, let me go find a scripture that works with that.” And then it says, gegraptai, as it is written.” And then he puts it in. But it’s really important to show those connections.

  00:21:12 Also, it shows the importance of the patriarchal line. As we’ll see in chapter one, he begins his gospel with the genealogy of Jesus, and we’ll want to talk about this in some time. And he’s going to portray Jesus as the new Moses, and that comes out a little bit after chapter 1, so we probably won’t talk too much about that.

  00:21:34 But there are two other things that I think are really important for what we are going to discuss today. Although he is writing to a Jewish audience, I think it’s clear that he’s trying to also convince that audience to accept the Gentile mission.

  00:21:55 In the time of Paul, this question of Gentiles in the church, honestly, this is … We could read over this quickly, but this is something that threatens to split the church in two, between Jewish Christians and gentile Christians, and it’s something that Paul is really struggling with. So that’s going to be an important thing. He’s saying to the Jewish audience, “Gentiles belong in this as well, and we should welcome them into it.”

  00:22:21 And so there’s a couple of ways that this happens. Eusebius, who is a really important Christian historian, he writes in the 4th century, but when he is talking about Matthew’s gospel, he says in his History of the church, “Matthew had begun by preaching to the Hebrews, and when he made up his mind to go to others too, he committed his own gospel to writing in his native tongue.”

  00:22:47 So there’s a sense of his responsibility, initially writing to Jews. But then he says, “Okay, I’m going to expand it.” And we don’t know, very little, if anything, about Matthew and his teaching to the Gentiles. But I think it’s reflected in his gospel.

  00:23:04 So for example, I’ll just say these briefly and then maybe we can talk about them in more detail. When Matthew has his gospel, it’s a very patriarchal genealogy, which we would expect, except that there are four women in it, which is totally unexpected. Ruth, Tamar, Rahab, and the wife of Uriah, who is Bathsheba.

  00:23:25 All four of these, Gentile women. So at least at some level it’s saying, “Look, Jesus comes through the lineage that we would expect through David and Abraham, but we wouldn’t have Jesus, we wouldn’t have the Messiah without the influence of women, gentile women.” So if they’re part of the beginning of Christianity, then surely they should be allowed to be a part of the church.

  00:23:53 Matthew chapter 2 and the wise men. At least from Matthew’s perspective, these are Gentiles and they play a really, really important role. And then we have places like Matthew 8 and Matthew 15, where the faith of Gentiles is just absolutely incredible. And in fact, in chapter 8, after the healing of the Centurion servant or child, we read, and this is unique to Matthew, he’s the one that puts this words together with the centurion servant child.

  00:24:22 “When Jesus heard it, of the faith, He marveled and said unto them that followed, ‘Verily, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith. No, not in Israel. And I say unto you that many shall come from the East and West and shall sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, but the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness and there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'”

  00:24:47 So again, Matthew is editing and to create this to say there are many people who expect that they should be in the kingdom of heaven, but the Gentiles are going to be there and some are going to be disappointed because of this great faith that they have.

  00:25:03 And then the other thing that I want to just give a heads-up for now is Matthew also seems to be writing to address a question or a concern that some in Judaism seem to be asking. And that is, where is this God who made a covenant with us? He promised that if we made a covenant that we would be His people, that we would be a treasured nation to Him. He promised that He would go before us with our enemies and fight our battles and be our divine warrior.

  00:25:41 So what happened? How did we get overtaken by the Greeks and now the Romans, where is God? Why isn’t he fighting our battles for us now? Has he abandoned us? Is he really there?

  00:25:56 Part of Matthew’s answer to this is, you better believe it. So let me just show you a couple of verses, one’s from chapter 1 and then one’s from the end of the book. This is a part that we’re all familiar with and we’ll put it in more context later. But when the angel is speaking to Joseph, he’s going to quote a passage from Isaiah chapter 7:14, and we’re all familiar with this.

  00:26:22 Now this is done that might be fulfilled, which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet Isaiah saying, “Behold a virgin shall be with child and shall bring forth a son and they shall call his name Emmanuel.” Which is being interpreted, “God is with us.”

  00:26:42 Now jump over to the end of Matthew, Matthew chapter 28, and we’re probably, I think more familiar with verse 19, but we often stop quoting it in the middle of verse 20. But it’s the part after that that I’m interested in, but I’ll put it in context. So this is the resurrected Jesus on the Mount of Olives, and he’s talking to his 12 and this is the last thing that we have him saying to them, at least in Matthews Gospel,

  00:27:10 “Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” And now notice this language, “And low I am with you always.”

  00:27:29 This is a literary device known as an inclusio. So if a passage starts with an idea or words that are the same and where it ends with those words that are the idea or the words themselves are the same, that’s a device. An enthusiasm means it is kind of bringing together everything in between. Everything in between is then meant to illustrate or to prove these inclusio, that God is with his people.

  00:28:06 So that suggests to me that when Matthew is writing this, he is also responding to those who are saying, “God’s abandoned us. Where is he? Why isn’t he with us?” Matthew is writing his gospel, at least in part to say, “God has not abandoned His people and the evidence that He has not abandoned his people is that He sent His son, Jesus Christ.”

  00:28:35 Everything in Matthew’s gospel is to reinforce the coming of Jesus and to show that God continues to be with His people. Even, as He says at the end, even though He’s resurrected and He’s leaving them in mortality, He’s still not going to abandon them. He will continue to be with them even when He’s left mortality. I think that’s beautiful.

Hank Smith: 00:28:58 That is those two bookend verses. That’s Matthew 1:23, and Matthew 28:20.

John Bytheway: 00:29:05 That’s really cool.

Hank Smith: 00:29:06 God with us, I am with you always.

John Bytheway: 00:29:10 I think just about every high council room in the church has that painting with the great commission in it. That’s the caption, I guess.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:29:17 And so for me, the question also is, if we’re thinking about what does this mean for me, do people today have the same questions? Where is God? Has he abandoned me? I thought I joined the church, I made covenants. Where are those provenance for me?

  00:29:36 I think Matthew is teaching us that the answer will be the same. As individuals, if we take Matthew seriously, what’s the evidence for me that God has not abandoned me, but that He continues to be with me? And as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, one of my answers to that is the evidence that God has not abandoned me or this generation is the restoration of the gospel. That He continues to talk to us through prophets, seers and revelators. He continues to give us guidance for the things that are affecting us in this life.

  00:30:15 God has not abandoned us because God and His son returned to the prophet Joseph. Rather than walking away from the restoration, I want to hang onto it with everything that I’ve got because that’s what connects me with this promise.

  00:30:33 And I think the other answer I would say, what’s the evidence in my life that God has … For an individual, not just a community, is that He hears my prayers and He answers me in very personal ways. And I cannot, I cannot reject or forget or push those things away and think that they’re just kind of happenstance. This is the evidence of a loving God who’s heavily invested in me personally. And I’m sure there are other ways to think about it as well.

John Bytheway: 00:31:10 So the definition of Emmanuel, which is interpreted, “God with us,” and then, “Lo I am with you,” and the weekly reminder we get that they may always have His spirit to be with them. There’s no aloneness in the gospel. There is a promise of being with you. And I remember Elder Hafen pointing that out in one of his books. I just love that promise at the sacrament table of being with you. There’s not an aloneness. I’m glad you said that about Matthew now and now I can think of, as you said, the restoration promising the same thing.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:31:48 It’s beautiful. And when I saw that, that has really changed the way I’ve thought about Matthew’s gospel. I mean, I’ve always loved Matthew’s gospel. Even though it’s not everyone’s favorites, it’s one of mine. So that just deepened it even more for me.

  00:32:01 The book starts with that part that as we’re reading the Old Testament is probably the part we skip the most. All of those blinking genealogies that come along.

Hank Smith: 00:32:12 All the begating.

John Bytheway: 00:32:13 How many begats do I have to go through here?

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:32:15 Yeah, there’s a few actually. But one of the things that I learned from the Old Testament, that those genealogies are really important because they help to connect us with the original story, with the divine. They help to connect us with God.

  00:32:34 Matthew, writing to a Hebrew audience, is going to pick on it. So it shouldn’t surprise us that there’s a genealogy front and center. And in fact, the first two words in Matthew chapter 1 is, “The Book of Genesis.” We’ve got it translated as the Book of Generation, but the word is Genesis. And I’m not sure that that’s happenstance.

  00:32:58 I think that Matthew, like John, is wanting to connect this Christian story as an extension of the creation. Back in Genesis where God created the world and now He’s creating a community, a kingdom of God on earth-type of thing. And I think that this is one way that Matthew does it. That for his original readers, they would pick up probably a little bit more quickly than what we do because we don’t live in that same sphere and time.

  00:33:32 So this is the book of Genesis of Jesus Christ, the son of David and the son of Abraham. Again, for his audience, it’s really, really important for Matthew to connect the story of Jesus with two of the most prominent important people in Jewish history. King David, Jesus comes as a Messiah. He’s a descendant of David, as prophesied that David’s house

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:34:00 would last forever, and Jesus renews that. But also the son of Abraham. Remember that Luke had gone back to Adam because it was important to his audience, but for Matthew and his audience, it’s the connection with Abraham, the covenant of Abraham, that is an important connector for understanding who this Jesus is as Matthew tries to explain him to his audience.

Hank Smith: 00:34:30 These are the biggest names in their history. David, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. It doesn’t get any bigger.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:34:36 You’d kind of expect a little bit of Moses in there too, but he doesn’t make it in this way, but Moses is prominent in other ways in Matthew’s gospel. Jesus is the new Moses as well.

  00:34:47 It’s clearly that Matthew has not just crafted this chapter, but he’s crafted this genealogy, and he’s crafted it around the number 14. So he’s broken Israelite history down into three major places, from Abraham to David. He’s put in 14 generations there. He’s in verse 17 here, and then he’s got from David until the Exile Babylon, and he’s included 14 generations there as well. Even though the time from Abraham to David was a lot longer than from David to the Exile, he’s still staying with 14. And then from the carrying away the Exile of Babylon to Christ, another 14 generations, even though he’s had to miss out lots of kings to make it 14.

  00:35:38 Why is he doing this? And I don’t think that there’s only one answer, but some things to maybe consider is that for a Hebrew audience, the number 14 is particularly important on a number of levels. Jews have this thing called gematria, where in Hebrew, unlike English, numbers don’t have separate symbols to letters. In Hebrew, it’s the letters that are the numbers. So their first letter, Aleph is number one, Beta is number two. This means that for them, words have numerical significance. Somebody has noticed that the name David adds up to 14, the daleth four, vav six, and then the dalet four is then 14.

  00:36:27 So is Matthew intentional here in crafting this genealogy in this symmetry of 14 generations, 14 generations, 14 generations? Is that a way of reinforcing the importance of Jesus’ connection to David and the extension of the Davidic covenant? That may be the case. It’s not explicit, but it may be one way. The number seven is also very, very important. That creation and dispensations and everything is this, six periods of seven, which would indicate that there is an anticipation of a seventh that is being ushered in by Christ and the kingdom of God. That has been brought up by people as well. We don’t know exactly what Matthew was thinking, but there’s some possibilities looking at it.

Hank Smith: 00:37:18 It is crafted on purpose. The numbers are important to him.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:37:21 Yeah, for whatever reason.

John Bytheway: 00:37:24 I have a comment here from our friends and colleagues, Kelly Ogden and Andy Skinner in their book, Verse by Verse: The Four Gospels. This is what they said, “By using the number 14, Matthew emphasized Jesus’s perfection and messiahship as well as his direct descent from King David. Sometimes, as here, genealogies might be telescoped or condensed to match a desired number of which an author is particularly fond.” So like you said, well we really want to make this fit 14. One of the things that I’d love to share with my class is that photo in the Bethlehem Grotto underneath the Church of the Nativity. If you go down the spot where the traditional spot of the birth of Christ is marked by a 14 pointed star, to go back to this Matthew 1:17.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:38:13 So whatever he is doing, and he does like balance, Matthew likes balance, that this is kind of balance the doubt.

  00:38:19 Can I just say one other thing about the women in here in this genealogy? People have said, “Well, there are four women because fill in the blank.” But here’s the reason why I emphasize their gentile nature. Tamar was a Canaanite. We never talk about her in seminary. Verse five talks about Rahab, then Boaz, of Obed of Ruth. They’re familiar with the stories of Rahab and Ruth, both of whom were Gentiles. Rahab was a Canaanite. Ruth was a Moabite. Tamar was also a Canaanite.

  00:38:54 But then notice verse six, “And Jesse begat David the king, and David the King begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Uriah.” This again is where I stop and ask a question. I’m going, “Why on earth did he say it that way?”

  00:39:09 We all know that the wife of Uriah is Bathsheba.

John Bytheway: 00:39:12 Bathsheba.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:39:13 So why not just say blinken Bathsheba? Well, I wonder whether, because we don’t know the lineage of Bathsheba, but she was married to Uriah. And in the Old Testament, Uriah is called Uriah the Hittite. Even though this might not work perfectly, Matthew is wanting to emphasize the gentile-ness of this woman, who we all know as Bathsheba. But because he says it this way, I think it again emphasized the gentile nature of the four women here. So that’s why I go that way.

Hank Smith: 00:39:46 A reader during Matthew’s day who is saying, “I don’t want Gentiles to be part of this,” should start off the book going, “Gentiles are already part of our story and have been for a long time.”

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:39:59 And we wouldn’t be at this place without these women and the impact they had or the part they played in the lineage. There’s an idea that even sinners have a part to play in this coming forth. Even sinners can do things to help move along the kingdom of God because God is omnipotent and he uses imperfect people like me to help this work. And here’s an example of that as well.

John Bytheway: 00:40:25 That’s what I like about it. It’s like, you don’t have to have a perfect lineage. Your pedigree charts and everything can have all sorts of interesting characters in it, and we need them all. But it doesn’t determine what you’re going to do and be.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:40:39 That’s right. Now, the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise, when his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph. Before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Now, one of the things that I like about seeing the story in Luke and seeing it separately in Matthew is we are reminded, in Luke, of Mary and the importance of the story for her. But Matthew has a different audience again. His emphasis here it is on Joseph. He also has a part to play. It’s not the same as Mary’s. So I’m trying to think about Joseph here.

  00:41:22 So verse 19, “Then Joseph, her husband, being a just man.” Now I want to stop there and think about that. So the word here is for just is dikaiosune. Joseph, her husband, being a righteous man. I think that that’s really important. We talked a little bit about Mary and her foreordination and those kinds of things, but Joseph shouldn’t be just in the background here. I think if we look at both of these and their emphasis on their righteousness suggest to me that even though this was undoubtedly an arranged marriage, that they were equally yoked together spiritually. They were both righteous beings, and/or people. And that also makes sense to me, that God would want to send his son to a home and to a family that is based in righteousness, like we saw with Zacharias and Elisabeth.

  00:42:26 And I think then we see some evidence of his righteousness. He’s not willing to make a public example of Mary. He was kind to her and wasn’t going to divorce her, even privately, because that would cause real heartache for her. And the fact that he also, in Matthew’s gospel, he’s the one receiving dreams and revelations. While he thought on these things, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream saying, “Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife for that which is conceived of her is of the Holy Ghost.” I wonder what he was thinking on that. He’s heard the story that is conceived in her of the Holy Ghost, and he is told that she shall bring forth a son and now shall call his name Jesus. Specifically here for he shall save his people from their sins.

  00:43:24 I’d love to think about that idea of Joseph and Mary being equally yoked together in this great enterprise embarked in. And this is the only time we’re going to hear of Joseph. He kind of falls off the edge of the earth and we don’t hear from him again. So I think it’s important that we remember that aspect while we have the opportunity to do so.

John Bytheway: 00:43:47 Elder Holland talked about Joseph once in a… The talk I think was 1995, and I think it was called Always Remember Him. And he talked about certain things that we could think about during the sacrament. And Elder Holland said, I’ll get as close as I can, that we could think of Jesus’s unpretentious father and we could be reminded that quiet unpretentious people have moved this work forward from the beginning. And then Elder Holland said, “If you feel like you are serving almost anonymously, so did one of the best men who ever lived,” about Joseph.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:44:24 Yeah, I think it’s good to hear from him and to think about him as it is to think about Mary.

  00:44:28 Now, I also want to kind of go to what the angel tells Joseph in a little bit more detail, specifically quotes Isaiah 7:14. Now a couple of things here. Number one, I love it when scripture interprets scripture.

John Bytheway: 00:44:45 Yeah, it’s really helpful.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:44:46 This is one of those places. That Gabriel is interpreting Isaiah 7:14 to be a reference for Mary and the birth of Jesus. Now, the reason I want to point this out is because that’s not probably what Isaiah is doing when he uses this verse back in Isaiah 7. And I think this is a really good place to help us think about original context and our interpretation of it.

  00:45:18 So one of the reasons why I think, at least for Isaiah’s audience, that this could not be a reference just to this future event of Mary and Jesus is how it’s used in Isaiah 7:14. So if you want to kind of follow me here to that verse, because if we look at the rest of chapter seven, and you learnt this last year, but just kind of putting it in this context, what we have here is that Ahaziah is the king of Judah, and the king of Syria and Israel are trying to force him to enter into an alliance, a political alliance, so that they can fight against this Assyrian war machine that is coming down. Ahaziah wants to make peace with the king of Assyria himself. But he’s feeling the pressure here of what these two are doing.

  00:46:12 And Isaiah comes to him and says, “Look, don’t be afraid of them.” And in verse four he says, “For these two,” he uses a symbolism. “They’re smoking firebrands.” They’re on the way out. That’s what smoke is. After the flame is out, they’re smoking. And then Isaiah says to Ahaziah, “Ask for a sign that I am speaking of the Lord.” And Ahaziah says, “Well, I can’t ask for a sign. I’m not going to ask for a sign.” we know that. We’re told that. Don’t ask for a sign for a wicked and adulterous generation ask for a sign. And I don’t know whether Ahaziah knew that or not, but when the prophet of the Lord is saying, “Ask for a sign.”

John Bytheway: 00:46:50 Ask for it, yeah.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:46:53 Ahaziah is going, “I don’t,” and maybe he’s thinking, well, if I ask for a sign, then I’m going to have to listen to him. And I don’t know.

John Bytheway: 00:46:57 I don’t want to listen. Yeah.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:46:59 That’s right. But Isaiah keeps pushing and pushing. “Ask for a sign, ask for a sign.” “No, no.” “Okay, well I’m going to give you one anyway.”

John Bytheway: 00:47:06 I’ll give you the sign.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:47:07 And the sign he gives to Ahaziah is this, “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son and call his name Emmanuel.” If we were to only read this from the perspective of, this is talking about Mary and Jesus, then that sign makes no sense whatsoever because the Assyrians are coming. And if they’ve got to wait 700 years until the sign is given, then Ahaziah is not going to trust Isaiah. So this is one of these places where the immediate context is something to do with a young woman having a child. Perhaps, according to chapter eight, it’s Isaiah’s own wife. And that’s going to be evidence to Ahaziah to trust Isaiah as a prophet. But that doesn’t work if we only see it in terms of… There’s only one way to interpret scripture.

  00:47:58 So two quotes, one’s from Elder Holland and one’s from then Elder Oaks and talking about this passage here, and seeing it in terms of dual fulfillment. So Elder Holland says, “The dual or parallel fulfillment of this prophecy comes in the realization that Isaiah’s wife, a pure and good young woman, symbolically representing another pure woman, did bring forth a son. This boy’s birth was a type and shadow of the greater and later fulfillment of that prophecy, the virgin birth of the Lord Jesus Christ. The dual fulfillment here is particularly interesting in light of the fact that Isaiah’s wife apparently was of the royal line of David. Isaiah’s son is thus the type the prefiguring of the greater Emmanuel, Jesus Christ, the ultimate king who would be born of a literal virgin.”

  00:48:50 And then Elder Oaks. “The book of Isaiah contains numerous prophecies that seems to have multiple fulfillments. One seems to involve the people of Isaiah’s day or circumstances of the next generation. Another meaning, often symbolic, seems to refer to events in the meridian of time when Jerusalem was destroyed and her people scattered after the crucifixion of the Son of God. Still another meaning or fulfillment of the same prophecy seems to relate to events attending the second coming of the Savior.”

  00:49:19 So this is just a reminder to me to always dig deeper. Don’t think just because I’ve heard, “Oh, this verse means this,” that I’m satisfied with that. It’s the breadth and depth and nuance of scripture that makes studying the scripture a lifetime pursuit of excitement for me. This is just one example of that.

Hank Smith: 00:49:42 And Matthew had no problem, it sounds like. He probably knows its original context, but he’s saying, “Hey, I’m going to use it to talk about Jesus as well because it fits.”

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:49:52 Yeah. And he’s going to use the Septuagint, the Greek version, not the Hebrew version, because the Greek version has Parthenos, a virgin. The Hebrew version has Alma, which just means a young girl.

Hank Smith: 00:50:04 Oh, okay.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:50:05 So that’s going to be important for him.

John Bytheway: 00:50:07 When I teach Isaiah, I like to say Isaiah 7 is the prophecy. Isaiah 8 is the first fulfillment. “I went in to the prophetess she conceived and bared a son,” Isaiah 8:3. And then Isaiah 9 is the next fulfillment. Unto us, a child is born. Unto us, a son is given. The government shall be upon his shoulder.” Speaking of Christmas. So it sounds like… I call them current events and coming events. Sometimes a current event will foreshadow a coming event. Yeah, that one is fun to teach because when you really figure out which nations and everything, it makes no sense, as you said. Yeah, just wait 700 years and we’ll all be okay.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:50:46 And then you can trust, but it wouldn’t work for him. Yeah. Can I just shift gears just a little bit here? Scholars are going to argue that the story of Jesus’ birth in Matthew

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:51:00 And in Luke are not historical, but they’re just kind of mythological, to set up a story and they say there’s no historical value in them because if you were reading these stories for the first time, would you think that they were telling the same story? They’re very, very different. We didn’t get into chapters two of Matthew or Luke, but there’s shepherds and tomb in Luke, there’s wise men here. The emphasis is on Joseph here. It’s on Mary in there, is this really talking about the historical birth narrative? I’ve been interested in something that I learned from a very fine Catholic scholar, Joseph Fitzmyer, who soon passed away and he was very aware of this discussion in scholarship about the stories and the not historical nature of them.

  00:51:59 He went through and he said, “Sometimes in effect, you can be looking at the minutia that you can miss the panorama before you.” He went through the stories and he said, “Well, they’re very, very different stories, but what do they have in common?” And he made a list, if I can share that list with you, I think it’s important. He’s going to argue that in both Matthew and Luke, both of them agree that Jesus’ birth is related to the reign of Herod the Great, so that puts it in a historical context. They both agree that Mary, his mother to be, is a virgin, engaged to Joseph but they have not yet come to live together. They both agree that Joseph is the house of David. They both agree that an angel from heaven came announcing the birth of Jesus.

  00:52:51 They agree that Jesus is recognized himself to be a son of David. They both agree that his conception is to take place through the Holy Spirit. They both agree that Joseph is not the father, I want to come back to that one. They both agree that Jesus is … the name Jesus is imposed by heaven prior to his birth. They both agree that the angel identifies Jesus as Savior. They both agree that Jesus is born after Mary and Joseph come to live together. They both agree that he’s born in Bethlehem and they both agree that Jesus settles with Mary and Joseph in Nazareth and Galilee later on. So as I kind of sift through this list, which I really appreciate, the one thing that comes to my mind is, is there anything that is fundamentally important to the story of Jesus as the son of God, that they don’t agree on?

  00:53:52 The answer to me is no. They agree it’s a virgin birth. They agree that he’s the son of God. They agree that he’s here of salvation. They agree that he’s the Savior. All of those really, really important things, they’re on the same page with. And whether there’s wise men or shepherds is not nearly as important, is that Jesus is the son of David. He’s the son of God and that he’s come to be a Savior and bring salvation to his people. I think that that’s really important to think through.

John Bytheway: 00:54:24 That’s a good way to put those two stories together. I like that

Hank Smith: 00:54:28 They probably didn’t know they would be put together in the same book, but they complement each other so well.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:54:34 Right.

Hank Smith: 00:54:35 Like two pieces of a puzzle.

John Bytheway: 00:54:36 In the most important areas as you said.

Hank Smith: 00:54:39 Yeah.

John Bytheway: 00:54:40 Most fundamental areas.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:54:42 One other thing, this idea that they agree that Joseph is not involved in the conception, so he is not the dad. So I want to share a story if that’s okay. When I was, first came to BYU as a student, it was Christmastime and I love Christmastime like most of us do. I was watching a program on TV about Christmas and as part of that program they were interviewing a leader from another Christian tradition and he said something that has just stuck with me ever since, right? He said, as best as I can recall, “Why don’t we just stop kidding ourselves and admit that Joseph was Jesus’ father?” Now, when I heard that, I almost fell off the couch. I’m going, “What?” This is a religious leader. I mean, I knew that scholars would say things like that, but this was a religious leader and I don’t want to criticize him, but I guess I have done that and I apologize for that.

  00:55:48 I share this story because it caused me to start thinking, so it was a catalyst for my thoughts on this matter. We do this often in the church. Why is it important that Jesus had Mary as a mother, a mortal and God as a father? If we were to take out the fact that God was Jesus’ father and just admit that Joseph was it, then my first thought, well, what would that mean to Christ’s atoning sacrifice? If God isn’t his father, the atonement doesn’t work. Then, I went next step further and then thought, well, what happens if we took Mary out of the equation? The atonement of Jesus Christ also wouldn’t work. I don’t think we often think about it that way, but there’s part of Jesus being mortal.

  00:56:38 A part of him having the experiences of a mortal experience, suffering, pain, death, hungry, sleep, tired, all of those kinds of things is also part of that atoning sacrifice. If we are thinking about Christ’s atonement, the author of Hebrews in chapter four, we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted like as we are, even though he was without sin, but then verse 16 is what jumps out for me. “Let us therefore, having a high priest or a Messiah who has Mary as a mother. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of his grace.” The Greek word here for boldly means, let us come with confidence to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

  00:57:37 I love that imagery. It is because Jesus’ mother is Mary, that in a very real way, we have a connection with him, that he knows us. He doesn’t just know us intellectually, but he knows our experiences because he has experienced us, all of the trials and the difficulties of what a mortal life is all about. Sometimes in Christian dialogue, we have this tension and this struggle. Where do we put our emphasis? Is Jesus God or is he human? We want him to be God because all of the things that he can do as a God to enable the atonement to work, but we also want him to be human because it’s his humanness that allows us to connect with him in a powerful and important way.

  00:58:27 I hope that as we go through and spend this new year, looking for and studying the New Testament, that we are going to absolutely look for, Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is God. That’s fundamentally important, but I hope in the process that we don’t lose the Mary side of this son of God that we have and see him. So can I just share two examples? These are my favorites and again, you can talk about them in more detail much later.

Hank Smith: 00:59:01 Please do.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:59:01 Okay, so the first one is in Matthew eight. So I’ll just start in Matthew. These are really interesting verses, the way Matthew has crafted them, but we’ve got somebody coming to Jesus in verse 19 who says, “Master I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.” So in other words, he’s saying, “I want to be a disciple.” And Jesus stops and says … and he doesn’t say, “Oh yes, that’s great,” but as the great master teacher, he says unto him, “The foxes have holes and the bird of the air have nests, but the son of man hath not where to lay his head.” Now, we could read over that very quickly, but just thinking through what this might mean about Jesus and the mortal side of Jesus.

Hank Smith: 00:59:47 His human side. Yeah.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 00:59:49 Do you understand the cost of what it means to follow me? This is not just a free ride and following me means that you’re going to be an itinerant teacher. Foxes have holes, birds have homes, but I don’t have a house to live. I don’t have one of those basic comforts. Are you willing to give up that as well, if you’re going to follow me, to give all things, to sacrifice all things, to come and follow me or are you a disciple with a but clause? “I will follow you but,” and then fill in the blank. I see that as a verse that helps to see a little bit of a window into Jesus. Then, the other one that I’d like to share is John chapter six and we’re all familiar with this. This is the bread of life sermon that Jesus gives, magnificent.

  01:00:45 In fact, in John’s gospel, there is no sacrament in John’s gospel at the end, but this is the sacramental chapter where he talks about the importance of the sacrament. Go to verse 66, one of the greatest sermons Jesus gives. From that time, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him. Notice the poignancy. “Then Jesus said unto the 12, will you also go away? Are you also going to abandon me?” Can you feel the pathos of that question, that Jesus feels the rejection at some level? “Are you also going to do for this?” And this is when I love Peter, bless Peter. Steps up to the plate and says, ” Lord, to whom shall we go for thou hast the words of eternal life and we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the son of the living God.” Boom, boom, boom.

  01:01:39 I love that about Peter, but it also reiterates to me that Jesus, even as God, has experienced the difficulties of mortal life, and if I take the time to read, trying to appreciate that aspect of him as well, there’s a connection there that I think is really important for me as an individual, as I struggle the things of mortality as well.

Hank Smith: 01:02:09 Gaye, we have a wonderful opportunity this year to study the New Testament.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 01:02:13 Amen.

Hank Smith: 01:02:14 What would you say to our audience who are excited to study the New Testament, but they’ve spent most of their time in the Book of Mormon maybe and they gave the Old Testament a try last year and it was maybe difficult for them. Now, I know you’re a student of the Bible. What would you say to those who really want to give the New Testament a try this year?

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 01:02:32 I am very pleased that we get to study the New Testament, and I think blessings be upon the heads of everybody who worked through the Old Testament last year as well.

Hank Smith: 01:02:45 Yeah.

Dr. Gaye Strathearn: 01:02:45 The Old Testament is wonderful and I love it as well. So why study the New Testament? First thing, the prophet Joseph said, speaking of the Bible, “He who reads it oftenest will like it best.” I’m going to say that again because I want that to sink in. “He who reads it oftenest will like it best.” There’s a part of me that would say, “Why do we love the Book of Mormon?” And part of that answer is because we read it, we pay a price to get to know it. My encouragement is, and my experience would be, that the same thing happens as we take the time to really study the New Testament. So my mom used to have us as children memorize quotes, and I didn’t like doing it very much as a kid, but I’ve lived long enough to see and appreciate the value of it.

  01:03:43 One of the quotes that she had us memorize was by Leonardo da Vinci, and it goes something like this, “Knowledge of a thing engenders love of it. The more perfect the knowledge, the more fervent the love.” I love that quote now because that has been my experience. I’ve had the blessing to be able to study the Bible for many years, professionally, as well as individually. The more I have learnt about it, the more my love of it and its message has deepened. It’s much more nuanced now than it has been, and I’m not there yet. I anticipate for the however much longer I have in this life that I’m going to continue to learn new things and see principles and applications that I didn’t see because I’ve paid the price to study it.

  01:04:34 So that’s the first thing. It’s a great book. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. So where am I going to put my emphasis, on the we believe the Bible to be the word of God or on as far as it is translated correctly? I choose to put it on the first part of it, because then it means it’s important to me. In my busy life, I should make time for the biblical record. The other thing I think is important, it’s from the Bible that we get the historical experience of Jesus’ mortal life. We don’t get that so much in the Book of Mormon, although we get plenty of other wonderful things, but his mortal ministry, that’s from the New Testament. For no other reason, I think that that should be a motivation for us to read.

  01:05:22 Then, even though Acts and Paul … well, Paul in particular can be a little bit more difficult because it’s not narrative. One of the things that I love about the epistles is seeing people, imperfect people like me who still have a place in the kingdom of God. Peter, how many times was Jesus pulling his hair out at Peter? Look what Peter became because Jesus saw in Peter not who he was, in my opinion, but who he could become. I take real hope from that, and whether it’s Peter or Thomas or Judas, or whether it’s Paul, don’t matter. These are people like me, people that I can relate to and seeing them work through their struggles to come to know and to understand and to apply their knowledge of Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice. For no other reason, for those two, I think it’s well worth the time and the effort to do it.

Hank Smith: 01:06:27 What a fantastic first day in the New Testament, John, this has been just wonderful. I’m excited. It’ll be over all too quick. I have a feeling we’ll be in the Book of Revelation, in the blink of an eye. So well, I’m going to take advantage of this time to be in this wonderful book this year. We want to thank Dr. Gaye Strathearn for being with us today. She’s just been phenomenal. We want to thank her for time and her expertise. We want to thank our executive producer Shannon Sorensen. We want to thank our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen and of course, we want to remember our founder, the late Steve Sorensen. We hope all of you will join us next week. We have another episode coming up, New Testament, followHIM.

  01:07:11 Today’s transcripts, show notes and additional references are available on our website, followhim.co, followhim.co. You can watch the podcast on YouTube with additional videos on Facebook and Instagram. All of this is absolutely free, so be sure to share with your family and friends to reach those who are searching for help with their Come Follow Me study. Please subscribe, rate, review, or comment on the podcast, which makes the podcast easier to find. Thank you. We have an amazing production crew we want you to know about. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Jamie Neilsen, Will Stoughten, Krystal Roberts and Ariel Cuadra. Thank you to our amazing production team.