John Bytheway:               00:01                   Welcome to part two in the book of Job with Dr. Marcus Martins.

Hank Smith:                      00:05                   I’ve noticed something, Brother Martins, as I’ve read the book of Job. He seems very human to me in that he sometimes is really down. And then sometimes he’s bearing his testimony and then sometimes he’s pretty down, right? He’s cursing the day he was born. He says, “My soul is weary of my life.” And then he comes around and says, “Though he slay me, I will trust in him.” And then he questions, “If a man die, will he live again?” And then back to bearing his testimony, “I know that my redeemer lives.” That seems very human.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       00:40                   I agree. This for me speaks to the legitimacy of the account. This is not a person who does not have questions, moments of introspective, almost doubt. And I said, “Is this really the case? Is that really it?” But then I know that he lives. When you are in pain, in terrible pain, it’s very hard to think straight. I wonder, there is Job. And I keep looking at sometimes at that painting, Ilya Repin from 1869. Ilya Repin. I’m looking at it right now here. So there’s Job, a man, you know, with his body covered with boils. Can I imagine how painful that might have been? An itchy also consuming him? I have had significant pain myself. I had back surgery over six months ago, so nine months ago. And I remember prior to that, in moments when the pain was extreme, excruciating. It’s hard for you to think straight in those moments and not say, “Oh, why was I born?” It’s when the pain spikes and you have those moments of a very intense, excruciating pain and this physical discomfort. And it’s very hard in those moments to say, “Oh, I’m okay. Everything’s fine. Yeah. Come on. Come pain. Hit me again.” No. Now there may be people who can resign themselves and have that discipline not to murmur. So yes, Job was not super human.

Hank Smith:                      02:44                   It’s okay for anybody listening who thinks I’ve had moments of doubt and questioning and shaking my fist at heaven. And then I’ve had moments of testimony and belief and surety. I think that’s a very human thing to have happen.

John Bytheway:               03:02                   Hank, you talked about our friend Meg Johnson and this remarkable life of service she found, but it wasn’t right away. And she’ll tell you, this took me a long time. Kris Belcher, you’ve talked about too. People that go through horrific trials. I love that insight, Brother Martins, that Job is trying within himself. But I know it wasn’t instant, that it’s 42 chapters worth after the trials happen all in chapter one.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       03:33                   Our experiences, our testimonies, and our trials of faith will be precious to those who will come after us. Just like the story of Job was preserved. Make your story be preserved as well. It’ll be precious.

John Bytheway:               03:58                   My dad wrote a autobiography on a yellow pad, hand wrote it. Four of my children don’t know their grandpa. Never even saw him at all. But those things he wrote are precious.

Hank Smith:                      04:12                   That’s beautiful. I think, oh, well, who would want to read my story? No one will care about this. No, someone will. Someone will. And the Lord will make sure of it if he has something to work with. Let’s keep going here. As I keep looking through this, this book and the ups and downs, I think I can take some comfort in that, that I have moments of weakness where I’m tired and everything hurts. And I think I don’t want this anymore. And then moments of faith and testimony.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       04:45                   Job 19, he begins challenging his friends. Job 19:2, how long will ye vex my soul and break me in pieces with words? These ten times have ye reproached me: ye are not ashamed that ye make yourself strange to me?” My goodness. What kind of friends are you? Aren’t you ashamed of yourself of saying something like that? Then he said, “And be it indeed that I have erred, mine error remaineth with myself.” It’s none of your business. Hey for you to come and accuse me. If I have erred, that’s my problem. That’s the English translation for me here.

                                           05:27                   Then goes through this discussion and even talks about his relatives, verse 14, “My kinsfolk have failed. And my familiar friends have forgotten me. They that dwell in my house and my maids count me for a stranger. I’m an alien in their sight. I called my servant. He gave me no answer. I entreated him with my mouth. My breath is strange to my wife though I entreated for the children’s sake of mine own body. Yea, young children despised me; I arose and they spoke against me. All my inward friends abhorred me: and they whom I have loved have turned against me.” He comes down in verse 19. And it says, look, here’s where my hope is. “I know that my redeemer liveth and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth. And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God. Whom I shall see for myself and mine eyes shall behold and not another. Though my reins be consumed within me.” You see, he goes through this whole account of his trials and tribulations and the shame that has been heaped on him and the criticism.

                                           07:03                   And when he bears this testimony, because we tend to read this kind of a standalone passage. I know my redeemer lives. But it says, look, the world may fall apart around me, but I’m holding on. I’m holding onto what? My redeemer. So the worms may destroy this body, but still in my flesh shall I see God. That reminds me a number of years ago, we used to have visitors at BYU Hawaii who’d come from Thailand and so on, but we also had some coming from the continental United States. We used to have faculty and retirees from a Calvinist college in Minnesota, if I’m not mistaken. They would want to know a little bit more about BYU Hawaii and also Hawaiian culture. And also about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Since I was the Dean of Religion at the time, the people who were hosting these groups would always invite me to come and make a presentation.

                                           08:07                   I had a little presentation going through the Articles of Faith. I wouldn’t talk about our activities and programs, humanitarian work. No I would go straight to the Articles of Faith. Sir, here’s what we believe. This is our belief. I was do that and then open for questions. So I would spend 10, 12 minutes in the Articles of Faith and then open for questions. In one of those groups, I had an experience that I had never had before. An elderly gentleman, he was, “One thing I don’t understand about you Mormons, is why do you believe that God has a body? The body is nothing. The body is no good. It’s full of diseases and weaknesses. Why in the world would you want God to have a body?” Now, I confess that I never heard anybody ask me that question before. This must have been some 20-something years ago, but I still remember everything is being remodeled at BYU Hawaii it’s going to be awesome when it is done.

                                           09:11                   It’s going to take a couple of years. But we were in the foyer of the David O. McKay building, and there was this glass door where we could see the boulevard in front of the university going to the ocean. And when he asked that question, I remember looking towards the glass door and looking towards the ocean and thinking, “What kind of question is that? Why would God want to have a body?” And immediately, as I was looking outside, the thought came. Why wouldn’t he want to have a body if it is a perfect incorruptible body where you could enjoy the warmth of the sun and the softness of the wind? The embrace of a loved one forever? Why not have a body? When I read Job’s testimony, I remember that particular occasion said, “Though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.”

                                           10:18                   Why in my flesh? Because so many good things. So many good things can be enjoyed with a body of flesh and bones. A mortal body, yes, it has its problems. But through the resurrection, the power of the Savior’s resurrection. Oh my goodness, the bodies we’re going to have then. We cannot, even in our most sublime dreams, imagine the beauty, the majesty, the perfection of those bodies. Only those who have seen resurrected beings like Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and others who saw John the Baptist and Peter and James, Moroni. Only they can speak. And when they spoke, the language they used, they could not find words to describe. Joseph taught, spoke about Moroni said, Yeah, his countenance was like lightning. At the last day we will have the countenance of God restored to us.

                                           11:24                   I speculate that maybe in the resurrection, our bodies, resurrected bodies will have a combination of the facial and body features of our earthly parents enhanced by the facial and body features of our spirits that were begotten in the premortal life. We may very well be indescribably beautiful and majestic because of that. And now we cannot see our spirits right now when perfect matter is joined with an immortal spirit. Oh, it’s going to be really. And that’s what comes to my mind when I read Job’s testimony. I said, look, you know, the best is yet to come. Take care of this body the best we can. Hang on. Okay. Now we can go to the whirlwind.

John Bytheway:               12:14                   That’s why it’s called the power of the resurrection in my case. It’s going to require some power.

Hank Smith:                      12:25                   I’m sure both of you remember Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin. I loved his talks in General Conference. Those who don’t remember him won’t remember this humor, but he says, “We know it is worth the effort for the prize, which is eternal life, the greatest of all the gifts of God. And to qualify, we must take one step after another and keep going to gain the spiritual heights we aspire to reach.” He said, “There’s an eternal principle. It is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. We don’t have to be fast.” This is Elder Wirthlin again. “We simply have to be steady and move in the right direction one step after another.” And then this little joke here, “In my younger days, I loved to run. Although it may be hard for you to believe it. I did. I did win a few races. I’m not so fast anymore. In fact, I’m not sure how well I would do in a race if the only contestants were the members of the Quorum of the Twelve.”

John Bytheway:               13:25                   That’s awesome.

Hank Smith:                      13:26                   “My ability to run is not so swift now. While I’m looking forward to that future time, when with a resurrected body, I can once again sprint over a field and feel the wind blowing through my hair.” That’s kind of funny because he didn’t have any at the time. “I do not dwell on the fact that I cannot do it now. That would be unwise. Instead, I take the steps that I can take. Even with the limitations of age, I can still take one step at a time. To do what I can is all my heavenly Father now requires of me. And it is all he requires of you.” Beautiful. One day we’ll sprint again.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       14:09                   Yes.

Hank Smith:                      14:10                   Now, as I keep going through the book of Job, Job keeps calling on God and calling on God. And I don’t know if he expected it. But the Lord decides, all right, I will visit. And that comes towards the end.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       14:26                   Yeah, we start on Job chapter 38.

John Bytheway:               14:29                   As I have written in my margin, probably from when we did this four years ago, starting in Job 38, I have, “This is the longest sustained first person discourse from God in the Bible.”

Hank Smith:                      14:41                   Okay.

John Bytheway:               14:42                   He talked for a long time.

Hank Smith:                      14:45                   You want an answer? Okay. I’ll give you an answer.

John Bytheway:               14:47                   Okay, here it comes.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       14:49                   And now observe how many questions, rhetorical questions, because he’s not expecting Job to be able to answer them anyway. “Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare if thou has understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof if thou knowest?” I find this pattern in heavenly ministrations. They ask questions. Here, the Lord ask a series of questions. When a messenger was sent, an angel was sent to Adam and Eve to teach them about the meaning of sacrifice. The angel didn’t start with, Hey, Adam and Eve, I came to explain to you that what you’re doing is a… No sir, why dost thou offer sacrifice unto the Lord? When you go to Nephi, and what desirest thou Nephi? And then when the angel begins to look and the, oh, I want to see what my father saw in his dream.

                                           15:56                   Then okay look, what beholdest thou? What do you see? Do you know the meaning of that? Do you know the condescension of God? I find Nephi’s answer the perfect answer to any question in Sunday School. When a teacher asks you a question in Sunday School and you don’t know the answer, give Nephi’s answer. I know he loves his children. You did not answer the question and the teacher cannot say that you’re wrong.

John Bytheway:               16:27                   There you go.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       16:29                   Questions, questions. And that’s what the Lord is doing here. He’s ministering to Job in a way that instead of telling him things, he’s making Job ponder about things that he perhaps had not considered some of these aspects before. No, I never thought about what I was doing when God was laying the foundation. No, never thought about that. The morning stars were singing together. Who are the morning stars? No, I never thought about that. The sons of God shouted for joy. I don’t remember that. And it’s questions, questions. He could have said, look, Job, you know, you don’t understand anything. But he keeps saying these things in form of questions. And that’s a way of teaching that we find in several passages of the Savior during his ministry. What think ye? I mentioned something about a paper written by Elder John Welch. He and his wife, Jeannie, were missionaries at BYU Hawaii. And they taught in our religion faculty there. They’re both brilliant, great scholars, both of them. I remember he shared with me one of his articles of the book of Job being some kind of essential narrative like we have in our temples where we begin with premortal status that you are awesome, great, and so on. Then there is a fall that horrible, terrible situation.

                                           18:11                   Dreary, sad situation. But then you come out of it and you are in a final stage, much better than in your first stage. Which in the case of Job, it’s, he has double everything that he possessed before in terms of possessions. He has another set of children again, including three daughters. I find it interesting that they chose to record the names of those daughters, but not the names of the sons of Job. There must have been some very important reason why they wanted the names of those three women to be preserved for our posterity. That’s essentially what the Lord is saying here. I created the world. He’s taking Job through these steps of creation. Then on chapter 40, chapter 40, verse six, “then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind and said, gird up thy loins now like a man. I will demand of thee and declare thou unto me.” And then skipping to verse 10, “Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.” Dress yourself. Clothe yourself with majesty and excellency. And adorn yourself with glory and beauty. These are temple nuggets there. And they continue talking about beautiful poetic language here. But then we get to finally, chapter 42, when Job then addresses the Lord again. Chapter 42, verse two, “I know that thou canst do every thing and that no thought can be withholden from thee. Who is he that hideth council without knowledge?”

Hank Smith:                      20:19                   I want to read you this from the contemporary English version. A little bit of what you read to us, Brother Martins. It just makes me laugh. When the Lord shows up in the storm, it says, “The Lord said to Job, Why do you talk so much when you know so little?” I thought he might ask me that.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       20:45                   Who is this that darkeneth council by words without knowledge?

Hank Smith:                      20:49                   And then he says, Now, so face me, Job. Can you answer some questions that I ask? How did I lay the foundation of the earth? Were you there? Doubtless, you know who decided its length and width. What supports the foundation? Who placed the cornerstone? He goes on a little bit later and says in verse 12, Did you ever tell the sun to rise? Did it obey? Did it take hold of the earth and shake out of the wicked like a dust from a rug? Job, this is verse 16. Have you ever walked on the ocean floor? Have you seen the gate to the world of the dead? How large is the earth? Tell me if you know. Have you been to places, this is verse 22, where I keep the snow and hail. From where does the lightning leap or the east wind blow? Who carves out a path for the thunderstorms? I really like this translation.

                                           21:43                   I don’t think it’s perfect, but I do think it helps me get the idea. And then Job’s response that you just read for us in chapter 42, here’s the English version. Job says, “No one can oppose you because you have the power to do what you want. You asked why I talk so much when I know so little. I have talked about things that are far beyond my understanding. You told me to listen and answer your questions. I heard about you from others. Now I have seen you with my own eyes. That is why I sit here in dust and ashes to show my sorrow.” Job has been put in his place. You know what? I really like this response. I know it’s not exactly perhaps as we might see him as this merciful being.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       22:30                   Who knows? Because the Lord speaks unto man’s understanding. We’re reading something here that was translated in Middle Ages and they put it to this beautiful flowery language. But who knows what exactly the Lord said? The Lord would speak to a child, he would not be using Shakespearean language. Especially when we’re teaching children and the youth. I think it is valuable to read the passage in the book and also to give some English translation. For example, Moses chapter one, Moses sees all those worlds. Each one was called Earth. And he said, why are these things so and by what power thou hast made them? And the Lord answers, Here’s wisdom and remaineth with me. And I used to tell people, I’d say, yeah, it’s the Lord saying, Moses, this is none of your business.

Hank Smith:                      23:24                   I love that. I think it would be fun with some of the prayers I’ve said that maybe have been a little snarky. And the Lord might say, Can I talk to you for a second? Why do you talk so much for someone who knows so little? I like the prose. I like the feeling it creates that Job goes, oh, wait, I’m sorry. I think I forgot my place. Go ahead and teach. You’re right. I probably ought to stop talking so much and maybe listen a little bit more. I think it’s a beautiful little back and forth.

John Bytheway:               23:58                   I love the idea of the sons of God shouting for joy in 38. Elder Neal A. Maxwell said, “While most of our suffering is self-inflicted, some is caused by or permitted by God. This sobering reality calls for deep submissiveness, especially when God does not remove the cup from us. In such circumstances, when reminded about the premortal shouting for joy as this life’s plan was unfolded, we can perhaps be pardoned if in some moments we wonder what all the shouting was about.”

Hank Smith:                      24:32                   What was it we were excited for again?

John Bytheway:               24:35                   Yeah, now that we’re here, we’re like, what was all the shouting about?

Dr. Marcus Martins:       24:38                   Yeah. That brings to mind this expression the Lord used in the Doctrine and Covenants a few times when he calls us little children. Ye are little children. And you have not as yet understood how great blessings the Father hath in His own hands and prepared for you. That’s Section 78 of the Doctrine and Covenants. And Section 50, Fear not little children, for you are mine. And I have overcome the world. And you are of them that my Father hath given me. In fact, immediately before, he says, Behold, ye are little children and ye cannot bear all things now. Ye must grow in grace and in the knowledge of the truth. Sometimes I wonder if in our prayers, we’re praying for things very earnestly and the Lord is looking at us and saying, yeah, I love you, but you have no clue. I’m going to be merciful and that’s one of the things I love about Section 50.

                                           25:43                   I’m going to talk to you as a man talks with another. I’m going to reason with you. He understands. We are in mortality. We cannot see things the way he sees. So he’s patient. He’s merciful. And I say, I wonder how many times the Lord is probably going to be hearing our prayers and saying, you don’t really want this, you don’t understand. I think this is a manifestation of his goodness towards us, that he does not reject us just because our prayers are, in his view, childish. That’s a sobering thought. But here we are, you know, with gray hairs and we’re still childish.

John Bytheway:               26:24                   You remember Elder Richard G. Scott, he said, “We are like infants in our understanding of eternal matters and their impact on us here in mortality. Yet at times, we act as if we knew it all. When you pass through trials for his purposes, as you trust him, exercise faith in him, he will help you. That support will generally come step by step, a portion at a time. What is that verse in the Book of Mormon that says we must consider ourselves fools before God? That’s why it’s always a good idea at the end of a prayer to say, Thy will be done, isn’t it? Because you may be praying for the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Hank Smith:                      27:04                   I notice that after the Lord puts Job in His place, He also puts his three friends in their place.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       27:17                   Don’t let those guys talk to me. You intercede for them. Which is essentially a beautiful way to explain the doctrine of forgiveness and intercession. The Lord is allowing Job to intercede for his friends, which is what Job used to do for his children. We’re in Job chapter 42 verse eight. And the Lord says take unto yourself now seven bullocks and seven rams, which means these guys were wealthy, they could afford seven bullocks and seven rams. And go to my servant Job and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering. And my servant Job shall pray for you. For him will I accept lest I deal with you after your folly in that you have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

                                           28:19                   In a way, the Lord is putting Job in place of the Savior. At this point, he is a symbol for the Messiah who makes intercession. He shall pray for you. He will accept. I find this really beautiful that it said, yeah, Job had to forgive his friends so that his prayer would be not only honest, but it would be pure on behalf of his friends because in order to pray with faith, he had to have a forgiving heart. That’s one of the things that I like here in this particular point. It says, yeah. The Lord is saying, yeah, I’m going to forgive them, but Job, you will ask me to forgive your friends.

Hank Smith:                      29:08                   I really like that you brought out Dr. Welch’s work there. I hadn’t noticed this before, but you do see a creation, fall, redemption pattern in this story that there’s a creation period. Look at Job, look how amazing it is. Look at the fall. Look how awful and terrible it is. Look at redemption. You’re better than you were previous. I think all of us have to go through that same process. Marriages, I think, go through the same creation, fall, redemption. Testimonies are often created and fall and then are redeemed. I like the pattern. I think it’s heavenly pattern.

John Bytheway:               29:48                   I love that you said that because I see that pattern in even the organization of the church, a falling away, a reorganization of the church. We see it a lot. What did somebody say once? You got to go through the wilderness to get to the promised land.

Hank Smith:                      30:07                   Creation, fall, redemption. Even our own bodies we’ve talked about. Creation, fall, redemption.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       30:16                   Going to verse 10, I find it also significant that the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before, but this was after the intercessory prayer. I know some of us pray for a long, long time, for certain blessings, for deliverance from some of our trials and tribulations. And we say, look, I’ve been praying for such a long time and years, decades. It hasn’t happened yet. It’s true. We don’t know how long Job suffered. I can read the book of Job in an hour or two hours, but who knows how long this really went on? We are not given that kind of information, but it so happens that some of us will be praying for certain things that the Lord will choose not to bless us with, perhaps even in this life. That’s why about an hour ago, I read that statement/testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith. All your losses will be made up to you in the resurrection, provided you continue faithful. By the vision of the Almighty, I have seen it. Even if our blessings are not bestowed, even that our prayers are not answered yet, our faith will be rewarded. If I take the statement here, twice as much, if it is something quantifiable, twice as much.

Hank Smith:                      31:56                   I noticed, just on a side note, that he doubles all of the animals, but not the children. He comes back and he has 10 children, almost as if, and this is probably me putting a little Latter-day Saint doctrine on there, but almost as if he still has those other 10.

John Bytheway:               32:13                   Yeah, eternally. Yeah.

Hank Smith:                      32:14                   They’re still His. So yes, I have doubled your children, but your first 10 are still yours and they will be yours in eternity.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       32:23                   Let’s not forget verse 11, Job 42:11. “Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters and all they that had been of his acquaintance before and did eat bread with him in his house. And they bemoaned him and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him. Every man also gave him a piece of money and every one an earring of gold. Then the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning.” But it’s interesting that that pivotal point comes when the family and the close acquaintances come, visit him, and administer to him of their substance. Job certainly was self-reliant, but there is a point in which some of us may need assistance. And we have to have the humility to accept assistance. Because imagine Job now playing the man. No, no, I don’t need any help.

                                           33:37                   No, I’m going to be fine. Take care of it. I’ll be fine. And I’ll be waiting. The Lord will help me. Sometimes we run into that mistaken notion that I don’t need anybody. It’s the proverbial story of the guy who is in a flood, there comes a boat and comes a helicopter and then he drowns. And when he goes there before the Lord, he says, well, why did I drown? Said, I sent you a boat. I sent you one. I sent you a boat, sent you a helicopter and you didn’t… He refused all the help. We have to have the humility. I remember one time I had to learn this lesson also 30-something years ago. But I said, look, you know, sometimes we have to be humble enough. We, especially we men, men, generally, like I said, no, I’ll take care of it. And I remember one occasion in which I accepted help. I learned a lesson.

                                           34:33                   And the person told me, well, I hope you don’t mind. And I hope you are not offended. I told the person, look, I’ll be honest with you. If you had called me seven years ago, I might have been offended. But now, I have learned certain lessons. And I see the hand of the Lord in what you’re doing to me and my family. We accept the assistance because that’s one of the ways by which the Lord is going to help us, through others. Then those of us who have the means to assist, we need to remember it so that we are stewards the language that the Lord uses in Doctrine and Covenants, section 104. We are stewards over earthly blessings. And so we have to look, you know, can I be of any service? Can I use my abundance? And if our abundance is not that large, but of the little that we have, we do a little bit our part in blessing somebody else.

Hank Smith:                      35:44                   I really think that’s beautiful that he prays for his friends and the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before, and it came through all of these friends and family that returned to him. It’s a beautiful ending.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       35:59                   I’m just noticing something here in verse 15. Job chapter 42 verse 15. So we know their names after the text says in all the land there were no women found so fair as the daughters of Job. And their father gave them inheritance among their brethren. Now, I’m not a Bible scholar, but how common was this, that daughters would receive inheritance among their brothers?

John Bytheway:               36:31                   Seems unusual.

Hank Smith:                      36:32                   That’s beautiful. I think, John, on my headstone, will you put that question? Why do you talk so much when you know so little? That’s so funny. This has been fantastic. Brother Martins, you’ve been a church leader countless times. Twice as Bishop. You’ve been a religion professor. You’re a father and a grandfather. Someone’s listening and they’re hurting. How do you counsel someone in that type of situation? They read this book of Job, they follow along with us, and they think, okay, this is part of life. This is part of being in the fall. Do you have any words for them? I know you seem like someone who could just hug someone and cry with them.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       37:21                   I often tell people, go to the Book of Mormon. Use the Book of Mormon. In situations like this, particularly the testimony of Alma, in Alma chapter seven, because our hope has to be in the Savior. I’m not a motivational speaker. I’m just an educator and I teach the gospel of Jesus Christ. It has to be in the Savior. That’s where salvation comes. Look to the symbol of the Messiah. This is Alma chapter seven, the beginning of verse 11, “that the Savior shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind. And this that the word might be fulfilled, which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.” The Savior knows. The Savior knows what we’re feeling. This is where that part of the incomprehensible part of the atoning sacrifice comes into the picture. He took upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.

                                           38:37                   Pains, afflictions, and temptations of every kind. Alma continues saying he will take upon him death. He may loose the bands of death which bind his people. And he will take upon him their infirmities that his bowels may be filled with mercy. That he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities. Now, the spirit knoweth all things. Nevertheless, the Son of God suffered according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance. And behold, this is the testimony which is in me. The Savior knows when we go to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ, we know that we have the best attorney in the universe, the best lawyer in the universe. A lawyer who never lost, never lost a case, never loses a faithful client who comes to Him in humility.

                                           39:56                   Faithful clients who come to this advocate before the Father will never, ever be in prison forever. Our pains, our infirmities, he knows them. We can go to him. He will understand. Now, our brothers and sisters around us may not understand. I avoid when I talk to people, “I know how you’re feeling.” No, I don’t. I have no idea. Even if I, oh, but, oh, you lost your father. I lost my father too. I know what you must be feeling. No, I don’t know what you must be feeling because you’re not me. Your experience is different. But he knows what you’re feeling. And I can speak in his name. Brothers and sisters, okay? As ministers, both brothers and sisters, you can speak in his name, in the name of Jesus Christ. Look, if nobody ever told you this, I’m telling you, this expression is an invocation of divine authority. Based on what I read in the scriptures, I think the Savior would tell you this and this and this. And as the Lord promised in Doctrine and Covenants 68, what you’re going to say after that is going to be scripture. The mind of the Lord, the will of the Lord, and the word of the Lord which is salvation.

Hank Smith:                      41:19                   Beautiful.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       41:20                   Yeah, the gospel is beautiful. And it works. Remember the promise that President Russell M. Nelson made. This is something that should not be paraphrased. October of 2022. “My dear brothers and sisters, so many wonderful things are ahead. In coming days, we will see the greatest manifestations of the Savior’s power that the world has ever seen. Between now and the time he returns with power and great glory, he will bestow countless privileges, blessings, and miracles upon the faithful.” He was not talking about the millennium. He was talking about between now and the Second Coming of the Savior. The greatest manifestations of the Savior’s power the world has ever seen. Oh, we look at these things in the scriptures. It’s peanuts in comparison of what is coming ahead of us. Countless blessings, privileges, and miracles upon the faithful.

Hank Smith:                      42:32                   Spoken like a true friend of Job, a true companion of Job.

Dr. Marcus Martins:       42:37                   Thank you so very much for this opportunity. What a honor it is for me to address your audience and thank you very much, brothers and sisters. God lives, Jesus Christ lives. Remember, Jesus Christ is the Master Healer. There is a place for all, all who desire to come unto him. No matter how bad things may have been for you, no matter how terrible your sins may have been, come to him. So what else can we say about this Savior. He’s really a Savior to all.

Hank Smith:                      43:21                   With that, we want to thank Dr. Marcus H. Martins for being with us today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. And every episode we remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. We hope you’ll join us next week. We’ve got the book of Psalms coming up on followHIM. As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we’d love to gift you the digital version of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. It offers short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episodes. Visit followhim.co, that’s followhim.co, to download your free copy today, and you’ll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our followHIM family. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kabwika, Sydney Smith, and Annabelle Sorensen.

                                           44:25                   Whatever questions or problems you have. The answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to him. Follow him.