John Bytheway:               00:00:01             Welcome to part two with Dr. Krystal Pierce, Exodus one through six.

Hank Smith:                      00:00:06             This was a great plan until now. I’m coming, I’m gonna deliver my people. To a land of milk and honey, Moses is like, this is a great plan. I love it.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:00:16             I agree with all of this, and that’s why in verse 11, what does he say? He says, Who am I? His identity, who am I? An Egyptian who’s gonna go in there and change things. Am I a Hebrew and I’m gonna go in there and save them? Am I Midianite? Why me? I don’t even know who I am at this point. How can I do anything?

Hank Smith:                      00:00:39             I’ve been gone for many years. You don’t want me, I promise, I’m not your guy.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:00:45             I love God’s answer to him. I’ll be with you. You know who you are? You’re my son. You’re my prophet. That’s who you are. This word, it’s translated as certainly. In this word, God is saying, You can’t fail because I’m with you. I’m gonna give you a sign, and the sign is someday you’ll come back to this mountain with all of those people, and you’ll be able to build a sanctuary here and worship me. He says, that’s your sign. Someday, you’ll come back.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:15             I really like, in verse 12, he says, When you have brought forth the people out of Egypt, it’s not if. And John, I love it when you say, when he says, Who am I? He doesn’t say, come on, Moses. Let’s work on your self-esteem.

John Bytheway:               00:01:28              Let’s have a self-esteem class. Let’s tell you how awesome you are.

Hank Smith:                      00:01:34             He just says, I’ll be with you.

John Bytheway:               00:01:35             And that’s the promise that we hear every week at the sacrament table, that we can have his Spirit to be with us. Love that. How often we hear that, you’re never, ever alone.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:01:48             We get some hints here that the reason why Moses failed before is because he just charged in, in his own strength. Now, at this point, God’s like, no, I’m with you. You’re going in the strength of the Lord now, which changes everything. It’s interesting because we look at Moses as a great prophet. You know, the Jewish community looks at him as the best prophet. If prophets need help from God, like, how much do I need help from God?

Hank Smith:                      00:02:14             John, it reminds me of B.H. Roberts. I don’t know how to read.

John Bytheway:               00:02:18             One of my favorite stories. Truman Madsen wrote a biography of B.H. Roberts. Have you heard this, Krystal? He saw a newspaper blow by. He was on a begging tour with some people that his mother had already gone to America, and left him with a convert couple, the Tovys whose conversion was marginal. He sees a newspaper blow by, and he just thinks it’s so magical that these little marks can speak to people. And it is pretty cool. He says out loud, will these marks ever speak to me? Will I ever read books? He said he heard a soul voice that said, aye, like A-Y-E. Aye, and you’ll write them, too. It’s the best story. He said, I sat in silence for a long time until Mother Tovy woke up and we resumed our begging tour. Finally, when he got to Utah, a teacher named Hannah Holbrook.

                                           00:03:17             There’s an elementary school named after her up in Bountiful, Utah. Taught him to cypher, is what Truman Madsen said, and he learned to read. Wow. He finally wrote a comprehensive history of the church. The cool thing Truman Madsen said is B.H. Roberts had to take over, if I’m getting the facts right, when his mission president was ill, he became the acting mission president there in, I think in the southern states. He would send copies of his comprehensive history to his former missionaries, and he would put his name, and then underneath his name, he would put, aye, and you’ll write them too.

Hank Smith:                      00:03:56             What a great story.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:03:57             I love that.

Hank Smith:                      00:03:59             And it’s the same Lord doing this. I will be with you, and you should see your future. It looks really good. You’re gonna come back to this moment.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:04:10             He knows our true potential. He just has to convince us.

Hank Smith:                      00:04:15             Yeah. Yeah. Moses has an interesting question here, Krystal. He says, Okay. When I go to the children of Israel and say- Guess who it is. I’m here to save you. They are gonna say, Okay, who sent you? What do you want me to say?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:04:32             Moses keeps it real. He’s … I need to be able to tell them exactly who sent me. This is where we get the meaning behind the name Jehovah. He says, This is what you’re gonna tell them. I am that I am. What better way to explain who God is than that he exists. He’s there. That’s the most basic foundational testimony. I believe God exists. I believe in God. This is important to Moses if we wanna do, like, a little bit of context here because the Egyptians had over 2,000 gods. Each one has a name. And you can think Moses is … They’re gonna wanna know which God this is. Jehovah answers and says, I am the God. The only God. Above all of these other Egyptian deities, this is the meaning of my name. And then he clarifies, he says, The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

                                           00:05:25             This is who you’re gonna tell them that I am. People translate this in different ways. Some people say, Oh, well, it’s a present. I am. Some people translate it as I will be in the future. Then he mentions Abraham as well. I have existed, I now exist, and I will exist. Basically saying, I’m infinity, I’m eternity. I’m God. I’m everything. Which is perfect, perfect description of God.

John Bytheway:               00:05:53             Oh, so good.

Hank Smith:                      00:05:54             I don’t know. Maybe I’m reading into Moses, but he’s gotta be thinking, Do you realize what they’re gonna say to me when I tell them I’m here to answer their prayers?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:06:06             They haven’t had a prophet in a while. Yeah. All of a sudden, he’s gonna show up and say, God’s speaking to me. First of all, who are you? Second of all, who is God? These are legit questions. He wants to be prepared when he goes back. He says, First thing you do is gonna gather the elders. These are probably the heads of the families, the households, the patriarchs. They still had some hierarchy even among them, even while they’re in Egypt. And he says, You need to go talk to them first. He basically says you’re gonna give them these code words. I have surely visited you. Now, these were the same words prophesied by Joseph in Genesis 50. And they’ll believe you. He tells him they’re gonna believe you. They’re gonna listen to you, and then you’re gonna go with them to the king, and you’re gonna ask the king for something very specific. And this is in verse 18. He says, You’re gonna ask him to let you go and worship your God. He says, You’re gonna ask them to let you go out into the wilderness to a holy space, build an altar, sacrifice an animal, and worship your God. A small request. He’s not asking for them to leave yet. Ask if we can worship.

Hank Smith:                      00:07:25             We want an extended weekend. Let us go. We’re gonna go for three days.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:07:31             Which is exactly how the Pharaoh takes it when he hears it. Yeah. He’s like, you want time off? No. Yeah. That’s not gonna happen.

John Bytheway:               00:07:39             Krystal, here they’re calling him King of Egypt, but it’s still the Pharaoh. Doesn’t Pharaoh mean something about a house?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:07:46             Pharaoh in Egyptian is per aa, which means the great house. Originally, it referred to actually the palace in the same way we would call The White House. We all know what that means. They called it the great house, and then eventually it becomes an actual title much later for the king of Egypt.

Hank Smith:                      00:08:04             Krystal, I’ve never seen this. Moses quotes Joseph of Egypt, and I wonder if … Is this something that the elders of Israel might go how do you know that?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:08:14             Maybe, yeah. Yeah, it would be a sign for sure. It had been 40 years. Maybe some of them, if they’re the elders, the older ones, then they did know who Moses was or his story or things like that, but maybe some of them didn’t too. But would definitely be interesting that Moses all of a sudden is quoting this.

Hank Smith:                      00:08:34             He’s quoting Joseph. I like moments like that where they don’t believe him, they don’t believe. He says, well, here’s what he told me to tell you. Wait. He said what? That’s right out of Genesis, but of course, who knows? He tells them, you get together with the elders, then all of you are gonna go to the Pharaoh and ask him for a three-day weekend. He’s gonna say no.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:09:01             He tries to make it very clear to Moses that verse 19, he’s not gonna let you go. He says this over and over again. It’s not gonna happen. I think Moses is thinking of other things at this point because he seems to forget this. Yeah. The Lord warned him, and even when the Pharaoh was like, okay, you can go, but now I’m gonna chase after you. He never really fully let them go. He says in verse 20, I’ll stretch out my hand and smite Egypt. He’s using an Egyptian symbol here against the Egyptians because we have this thing in Egyptian art called the smiting scene. Every Pharaoh shows himself with his hand raised above his head with prisoners or captives or foreigners, and he’s got a mace or some sort of weapon, and he’s smiting. This is definitely meant to be … The Pharaoh is not gonna be doing the smiting anymore.

                                           00:09:59             The true power comes from God. He’s the one that is going to be dealing out justice, basically. He’s the one who has power and strength. And he gives this prophecy. He says, And actually, by the time you need to leave, you’ll have favor in the side of the Egyptians. You won’t even leave empty-handed. The Egyptians are gonna give you all of this stuff when you leave. There’s some bad translations here, so this word borrow, the word in Hebrews just ask. They didn’t borrow, they didn’t steal, they didn’t take. They asked the Egyptians, will you give us stuff? And some of the Egyptians were friendly with them, and probably were like, you’re leaving. We love you, actually. Take this stuff and go on your journey on your way. Some of the other Egyptians, probably more of them, were like, get out. We will pay you to leave. We will pay you so the plagues never happen again, please.

Hank Smith:                      00:11:00             Not only will they let you go, they’ll pay you to leave. What?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:11:06             Take my gold as long as you never come back and take those plagues and things with you.

Hank Smith:                      00:11:12             Krystal, John, I noticed that even though Moses has had this reassurance from God, he still is not super convinced. This is chapter four, verse one. Moses answered and said, But behold-

John Bytheway:               00:11:25             They won’t believe me.

Hank Smith:                      00:11:26             They will not believe me and they’re not gonna obey me because I know what they’re gonna say. They’re gonna say, the Lord has not appeared to you. Here’s God reassuring him, and Moses is very human.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:11:39             Everybody needs faith. Everybody, the prophets, us, everybody doubts themselves sometimes, and God’s trying to help us feel strong and confident he has our back.

Hank Smith:                      00:11:52             No wonder, I think in chapter four, the Lord gets a little frustrated finally and says, done with the self-doubt. Go and do what I’ve told you how to do.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:12:02             He does try to work with Moses where Moses is at. Then he says, it’s okay, Moses, I’m gonna give you three miracles you can perform. And if you perform these three miracles for the elders, they’ll know that these are divine miracles and God is speaking to you and God is instructing you. You know, Moses says, They’re not gonna believe me and all this. And the Lord asks him a question. He responds, What’s in your hand? Moses looks down and he’s a shepherd. He turned off from the sheep and everything and he’s like, oh, it’s a rod, but it’s a shepherd’s crook. Jehovah says, throw it on the ground. So he does it. He throws it on the ground. It becomes a serpent and Moses runs away. Moses is so real. He’s the one who just did this and he runs away. He’s like, a snake.

Hank Smith:                      00:12:55             I hope that made the Lord smile, Krystal. I hope the Lord. Why are you running away from him?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:13:01             The Lord, he has a sense of humor. We see it sometimes is lost on us because of translation and culture and things. There might’ve been a little giggle.

Hank Smith:                      00:13:12             There had to be a laugh there.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:13:13             It’s interesting because then he says, Pick up the snake by the tail, which is not how you pick up a snake. If you’ve ever seen snake wranglers go for the head, you secure the head, you secure the fangs, you secure the venom. To me, this shows progression and faith because Moses does it. First, he’s running away, and now he’s back picking it up by the tail, and it becomes a rod back in his hand. There’s so much symbolism here in terms of ancient Egypt. These signs are for people who are Egyptian or who have lived in Egypt for hundreds of years. The shepherd’s crook is a symbol of kingship, power, and authority.

John Bytheway:               00:14:00             The pharaohs hold them.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:14:02             Mm-hmm. Exactly. So he has the crook and the flail. The shepherd’s crook is the mercy, so he uses it to pull the people in. The flail, which is sort of like a whip, is justice, and that’s to beat the people when they’re bad, and the king’s supposed to be this balance of justice and mercy. This sign of authority, strength, mercy is now being saying, who carries the rod now? Who carries the authority now? Who has the power now? And it’s the same thing with the serpent. Of course, there are serpent deities in Egypt, and there was one specifically tied to the king. Her name is Wadjet. She is on the crown. So even if we go back to King Tut, the uraeus, the Cobra, that’s Wadjet. Wadjet protected the king by spitting fire. She’s described as spitting fire venom at the king’s enemies and protecting the king. It’s a symbol of a deity has your back. So what is this a symbol of? Who has the divine power now? Who has God’s blessing now? Who has the authority kingship? This specific one would have sent a message, a strong message.

Hank Smith:                      00:15:15             That’s so fascinating. John, don’t you love having an expert here?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:15:19             The sign, the symbol of the snake here belongs to Jehovah, belongs to Jesus Christ. It’s interesting because we never think snake and Jesus Christ together.

Hank Smith:                      00:15:31             Krystal, this is a discussion for a later time, but is that similar to why Moses describes Satan as trying to be a serpent in the garden? He’s trying to be divine.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:15:43             Yeah, and that word for serpent in the garden means to trick someone, to try and be crafty and trick somebody and make them think something that’s not true, so it fits. This is the stuff that I just get excited about.

Hank Smith:                      00:16:00             Your worlds are coming together here. Your scripture, your belief in God, and your Egyptian, your love of Egypt.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:16:06             All my favorite things all together.

Hank Smith:                      00:16:08             That’s what happened in Ether. When we did Ether one through five, I remember.

John Bytheway:               00:16:12             Got a new word today, Wadjet.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:16:15             Yes, Wadjet.

Hank Smith:                      00:16:17             Last time was Deshret. Now it’s Wadjet.

John Bytheway:               00:16:20             Yeah. Manna is what is it? This is Wadjet.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:16:25             Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:16:25             Wadjet.

Hank Smith:                      00:16:28             These are signs that aren’t supposed to produce faith. These are signs that Jehovah is giving to Moses to let the elders of Israel know he’s a prophet, a true messenger. Moses anticipating the elders saying, you’re not a prophet of Jehovah. So he’s saying, all right, here’s a couple things you can use to let them know that I did call you.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:16:55             Yeah. You know, if snakes represent this deity, it also shows that Jehovah and Moses have power over this Egyptian goddess too. That’s really what the plagues are about. All of these Egyptian gods are represented by each plague. They’re nothing compared to Jehovah and his power.

Hank Smith:                      00:17:14             The battle of the gods.

John Bytheway:               00:17:16             The plagues are against the gods of Egypt and are not just random. Let’s try frogs.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:17:22             Each plague represents an Egyptian deity, and most of them are creator deities.

John Bytheway:               00:17:28             Uh, hi Ho, Kermit the plague here. And they are everywhere. They’re in the oven. They’re in the chamber. They’re in the- They’re everywhere. Yeah. You’re hip deep in frogs.

Hank Smith:                      00:17:44             Krystal, what’s the next miracle? What’s the next sign?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:17:47             Okay, so the next sign, he says, put your hand into your robe. And when he pulls it out, he sees that it is leprous as snow. This word leprous, we think of Hansen’s disease, a very specific form of skin disease when we think of leprosy, but this covered all types of skin diseases. Some of them, when they’d get really bad, the skin would turn white and flake off. That’s what’s this white as snow. It’s the worst type of skin disease you can get. What’s interesting about this is they believed at this time that when you had some sort of typically a physical ailment, it’s because God gave it to you as a punishment. They believed this in Egypt, all over the ancient near east, and the only way you would get rid of it is if God took it away. This is definitely supposed to send a message that this is divine. This sign, giving leprosy, healing leprosy, instantly, God is involved. God is giving Moses this power. Only God could do something like this.

Hank Smith:                      00:18:54             I’m looking in the other translations and quite a few don’t use leprous, they use diseased.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:19:00             Yeah. And that makes a little more sense.

Hank Smith:                      00:19:03             And it shall come to pass if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign, that they will believe the voice of the latter sign. So here’s two. Just in case the whole snake thing doesn’t impress them, try the hand trick.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:19:17             Yeah. They’re progressively supposed to be more miraculous. When we get to verse nine, he says, so the last sign, the biggest sign is taking water from the Nile and pouring it on the land, and then it becomes blood upon the land. Kind of hinting at future plagues.

John Bytheway:               00:19:34             Foreshadowing, yeah.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:19:36             This again is control over nature. Of course, the Nile was represented by an Egyptian God. His name was Hapi. This is saying, And Hapi is blue. So it’s this idea of Hapi doesn’t control the Nile, the Egyptian gods, Pharaoh doesn’t, Jehovah does and Jehovah’s in charge of what happens with nature and creation.

Hank Smith:                      00:20:00             So to us, these are miracles, but to them they’d speak even louder, given their environment being in Egypt.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:20:08             Exactly. These are meant for people who are Egyptian or have lived in Egypt for hundreds of years. They would recognize all of these as a different type of power than they had ever seen before.

Hank Smith:                      00:20:21             Yeah. Krystal, is it okay if I laugh at the next part where he’s given him these three miracles and then Moses says, I don’t think this is gonna work. The Lord finally gets frustrated, it seems.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:20:35             He really does. It’s almost like Moses is like, all that’s great and everything, but I’m not good at speaking. It doesn’t matter if I can do miracles. I’m not eloquent. I’m slow of speech. I have a slow tongue. In the Joseph Smith translation, he tells us, because Moses keeps saying this over and over and over again, that he puts in stammering lips. And some people believe that Moses had an actual speech impediment, some sort of speech impediment. What he’s asking here is possibly, cure my speech impediment. Heal me, cure me. You just gave me leprosy and cured it. Let’s do this because I’m not confident in the way I speak. Now, some people do think that maybe this is more of, I haven’t been in Egypt for 40 years. My Egyptian is rusty. My Hebrew’s a little rusty too because we do think the Midianites spoke their own dialect, their own Semitic language. How am I supposed to talk to Pharaoh in Egyptian or Hebrew to the children of Israel? He sounds like he’s not confident about his speech at all.

John Bytheway:               00:21:44             I love the Lord just says, will you just go? verse 12, just go. He’s like, I’m done.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:21:49             He says, Who made your mouth? Who’s the creator? You’re speaking to the creator. I’ll be with your mouth. I’ll tell you what to say. You don’t have to worry about that. Don’t worry about that. Just go and do it.

Hank Smith:                      00:22:02             Listen to the contemporary English version. Does this not sound like almost anyone who has to speak? I’ve never been a good speaker. I wasn’t one before you spoke to me and I’m not one now. I can never think of what to say.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:22:18             I think we’ve all felt that at some point. Every time I stand up in front of my students, please, Lord, help me know what to say and not have stammering lips and be eloquent and know what they need. I worry about it too.

Hank Smith:                      00:22:32             We’re probably projecting onto the Lord here, but I just like the idea that that Moses keeps coming up with reasons why this isn’t gonna work.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:22:42             And I do think this is kind of the height of this identity thing because by telling him in verse 12, I will be with thy mouth and teach thee what to say. He’s saying, You are a prophet. This is how we define prophets in the Old Testament. They speak the words of God. They speak on behalf of God. So Moses says, I can’t do it. I’m not eloquent. I don’t know Egyptian. I don’t know Hebrew. I can’t speak. Who am I? What am I doing? And God says, You’re a prophet and I’m with you and you’re a child of God and you’re a child of the covenant. You can do it. And all those other things, those are secondary. We’ll figure those out. All that matters is that I’m with you.

Hank Smith:                      00:23:24             Krystal, I don’t know exactly how to read the next verse. Is it him saying, still objecting?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:23:29             Yes. This is a bad translation. He basically says, I’ll go if you make me, but if there’s anyone else you can send, please send them. That’s basically what he’s saying. Please send someone else, but if you can’t find any other person on the earth to send, then I’ll go. And that’s why verse 14, it says, The anger of the Lord was kindled. He’s like, I literally just told you I’ll be with you and I’ll tell you what to say and you’re still doubting yourself? It’s interesting because this word anger here in Hebrew, it actually is the same word as nose or face, and it means rapid breathing, like you’re trying to stay calm and patient, you’re trying to not lose it. And I think of God as he’s being patient and he gives him an act of mercy. He says, What about Aaron?

                                           00:24:23             Aaron is confident in his speech. He’ll be happy to see you. I love this. They haven’t seen each other for 40 years. He’s like, okay. It’s great though because he doesn’t say … So I’ll tell Aaron what to say. He doesn’t say that. He says, what we’re gonna do is I’m gonna tell you what to say and then you’re gonna tell Aaron what to say. And then Aaron’s gonna tell the children of Israel. Sending Aaron is so merciful, it’s almost training Moses to become confident and a prophet himself because eventually God goes straight through Moses. God tells Moses and Moses tells the children. He doesn’t need Aaron anymore as the intermediary, the sort of in between. He knows at this point, this is what Moses needs. Moses didn’t need his speech, whether it was an impediment or language, healed, cured. He knew Moses needed some support, some help through Aaron. And that would get him to the point where he felt like he was good enough to be able to do it.

Hank Smith:                      00:25:27             Man, I’m following this exchange. It seems so human. I see this miraculous burning bush. I come over. Moses, you’re my son. I don’t think so. I don’t think I’m your guy. I will be with you. I’m going to help you. What am I supposed to say? Here’s this cool thing that Joseph of Egypt said. Give them that. And then, they’re not gonna believe me. All right, here’s some miracles. Let’s give you that. I don’t think I can talk very well. Who do you think made man’s mouth? Please send someone else. This is an exchange that a lot of us have had with the Lord.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:26:11             Is there anyone else that can do it?

John Bytheway:               00:26:14             Yeah. There’s a line in the Come, Follow Me lesson manual that says, God gives power to people he calls to do his work. President Benson used to say, whom God calls, God qualifies. That’s what the Lord is telling him over and over. And finally says, we’ll take your brother with you.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:26:34             Yeah, the Lord knows he can do it. Moses doesn’t believe he can do it. To me, this is such an act of mercy. Sometimes God answers our prayers, not through taking away the hardship or directly answering it, but he sends people to answer our prayers. He works through people. This is the way God speaks to me. This is the way God answers my prayers. This resonates with me, that he sends people. The strangest thing happened 10 years ago in my life. I know it was 10 years ago because my son was a newborn, and now he’s 10. I was going through a major transition in my life at that point, having to choose between two paths. Both paths were good. It was one of those ones where, you know, I was making choices about my career, my future, and I felt God telling me to go down one path to make one choice, and he was being very clear about it.

                                           00:27:28             But I felt other people in society, my friends, had other advice and had thought maybe this other path was the proper way to go. I was struggling taking that leap of faith, going against what everybody else was saying into what I felt like God was telling me to do. In the middle of all of this, we were up late one night. It was like one or two in the morning, as parents are when they have a newborn in the house, pretty late, and we heard a knock on the door. George goes down, he looks … I’m like, Who is it? What is it? And he says, There’s a girl out there crying. And he’s like, What do we do? And I was like, let her in. Open the door. Like, get her inside, you know, because that’s my instincts, right, are immediately like, crying girl? So I opened the door and there’s this young girl there.

                                           00:28:17             I mean, she’s like 19 or 20. She’s sobbing. Never seen her before, had no idea who she was. We invited her in, I came and sat with her on the couch. She said that she had graduated from high school and she had met this guy fallen in love with him and he had convinced her to run away with him, move out of her house and he had promised her all these things, we’ll get married, we’re gonna do all these things. And in the process, she had kind of had a falling out with her family because they felt like she was making the wrong decision. She had been with him for a few months and had realized she had made the wrong decision. They would never get married. He wasn’t gonna keep these promises and she felt lost and hopeless and she didn’t know what to do.

                                           00:29:04             She felt like she couldn’t reach out to her family because they wouldn’t accept her back. And she said she was driving around that night, just sobbing, crying, trying to decide what to do. And she heard a voice say, go to that house right now, knock on the door, ask for help. And it was our house. I sat with her for quite a while talking and saying, you know, call your mom, you know, call your mom, call your parents. You never know what will happen if you don’t try. And eventually I asked her, do you want a blessing? And she said, yes. Called George. George called the bishop. I’m sure he was like, who? What is going on? But he comes over straight over. They give her a blessing. She didn’t really want us to know her name or specifics about her. After the blessing, she looked up and she said, I know what I need to do.

                                           00:29:56             I’m gonna call my mom. And she was gone out the door. Thank you, bye. Never saw her again. Sometimes even when I think back on it, I’m like, was she an angel or a real person? Like, who was that? The thing is, is later when I was thinking about this, I started to realize that she was sent to me, not necessarily for her and her situation, but for me to show me what a leap of faith is. If this young girl who was 19 and felt like she wasn’t keeping her covenants could listen to God and immediately stop and knock on a stranger’s door at 2:00 in the morning, I could take a leap of faith. I could see what God wanted for me and do what he said, do what he told me to do and make that decision and block out what everybody else was saying.

                                           00:30:54             Now, in hindsight, I look back and it was the right decision and it was incredible. I don’t know what happened to her, but I know what happened to me. This is one of those examples to me, just like Moses and Aaron, where God sent somebody because I didn’t have the confidence to make that decision, to take that leap. But that girl who came out of nowhere and disappeared taught me that. It changed everything for me. This just reminded me of it.

John Bytheway:               00:31:23             Wow. President Kimball might say, God does notice us and he watches over us, but it is usually through another person that he meets our needs. And that’s a cool story, Krystal.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:31:34             I know, I thought if she can do it, I can do it.

John Bytheway:               00:31:37             God knows who you are. Krystal, that’s so cool. Yeah.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:31:40             He had been sending me this message and this happens to me so often. He tells me what to do and I doubt myself. I’m not sure. And then somebody else comes along and makes it very clear what I’m supposed to do.

Hank Smith:                      00:31:52             In our day, we could have likened this to a mission companion. I can’t do this. Well, that’s why I’m gonna give you a companion.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:32:00             Yeah, and that’s Aaron.

Hank Smith:                      00:32:01             You do the thinking, Aaron will do the talking. All right? You guys go together. I think every parent has reached this point that the Lord gets to, which is, all right. What do you need to go? If you’re that scared, here, I’ll give you Aaron. He’ll help you get underway. Let’s just get going.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:32:20             And it gives Moses enough confidence to go because he goes right back to Jethro and he says, I gotta get back to my brothers. He uses the term brothers again. He’s getting back into this, I gotta get back to my people. I’m gonna save my people. And I gotta get back to my brother because he’s gonna be the one to really help me. And he packs up his wife and his sons and they head towards Egypt. It’s funny because the Lord reminds him again in verse 21. He says, by the way, I’ve already mentioned this. But when you ask Pharaoh, he’s not going to let you go. It’s interesting because it says, I will harden his heart. I think we immediately are like, whoa, wait a minute. Whoa. God doesn’t go around hardening people’s hearts. The commentaries grapple with this. And they try all kinds of language gymnastics to make this work. And what do we have? We have the Joseph Smith translation. JST. He says Pharaoh will harden his heart. He makes it very clear we’re talking about Pharaoh. Thank you to Joseph Smith. Thank you to that prophet who is teaching us about this prophet here. It’s incredible.

Hank Smith:                      00:33:33             Yeah, what a blessing to not have to grapple with that.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:33:36             It makes sense. He does this so many times throughout all of these. He clarifies, he adds. Some of that’s from his own hard work and knowledge and studying of Hebrew. And a lot of that is from revelation from God, having God help him better understand these passages. It’s incredible.

Hank Smith:                      00:33:54             Krystal, you’re reminding us of that because you said Moses is gonna seem to forget this part.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:34:00             Yeah. Forgets. He says, this is exactly what you’re gonna say to Pharaoh. And this is in verse 22. We get the thus saith the Lord, which is a mark of a prophet. When a prophet says, Thus saith the Lord, it’s almost like God says, quote, Israel is my son, even my firstborn. Let my son go that he may serve, worship, sacrifice for me, and if thou refuse, then your son, your firstborn, will be killed.

Hank Smith:                      00:34:34             That went intense pretty quickly.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:34:37             Yeah. You don’t let him go. If you look at this, it says firstborn, then he says, son and then firstborn, this means there’s a covenantal relationship here. When we covenant with heavenly Father, we covenant with the Savior, there’s a relationship. That means we have promises and they have promises. When the covenant is broken, which is what he’s saying here, if you don’t let them worship, the covenant is broken, there’s justice coming, and they’re not gonna die.

Hank Smith:                      00:35:08             You might think, well, the Lord’s being a little over the top here. Well, he made a covenant with Abraham. Right? He made a promise to Abraham that this family was gonna bless all the families of the earth. Not doing this would be God not fulfilling his part of the covenant.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:35:25             There’s covenantal mercy and there’s covenantal justice. The justice is gonna fall on the Pharaoh because he’s the one who is affecting all of these covenantal promises. Posterity, prosperity, priesthood. They’re not allowed to worship. They’re not allowed to sacrifice. They’re not allowed to go to Canaan. He says, you go warn the Pharaoh. This is a problem.

Hank Smith:                      00:35:49             Yeah. It reminds me, John, I bet you can reference this. The Lord says, You might as well stretch forth your puny arm and stop the Missouri river in its decreed course than to-

John Bytheway:               00:36:02             It’s to the revelations coming down on the heads of the Latter-day Saints.

Hank Smith:                      00:36:06             Yeah. To hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints. So he’s like, don’t try to stop this. What happens? Is he gonna do it? Like, is he actually gonna do this? Okay. You want me to walk into Pharaoh? Like, okay.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:36:23             And it’s interesting because there’s, this is a heavy moment. He’s like, this is what you’re gonna say. And all of a sudden, we get verse 24, where it says, Moses is traveling. The Lord met him and sought to kill him. And you’re like, no, wait. What? We don’t think of the Lord hardening hearts or killing people. We tend not to think of it in that way. The Joseph Smith translation makes it clear. It says his hand was about to fall upon him to kill him, but it gives us a reason. So in the Joseph Smith translation, it says because he had not circumcised his son. We are meant to tie this situation with exactly what Jehovah just said. Covenantal bonds, keeping the commandments, and of course, under the Abrahamic covenant, circumcision was a token of the covenant. Moses, for some reason, hadn’t circumcised his son. He had broken the covenantal bond. We see, it’s actually, that’s what this word, the word kill here. In Hebrew, it usually signifies a covenantal breach or a sin. So he’s basically saying, Moses, how can we expect you to go and talk about the covenant and say justice is coming when you haven’t kept your covenant? You gotta take care of yourself first before you can start to help other people.

Hank Smith:                      00:37:50             You’ve got to live the covenant before you can teach it.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:37:53             Exactly. Putting it this way is really hard. But it’s interesting because this idea of circumcision, it’s related to the word, the Hebrew word to make a covenant. The word is to cut. To cut a covenant. Formally, it’s to cut in stone. It’s formal, binding, legal, cut in stone. That’s why we see every token of the covenant has something to do with cutting or bleeding, cut or blood. Even this word to kill, this is another cut word. You didn’t keep your cut covenants by cutting circumcision, you’ll be cut. There’s all of this symbolism here. That’s why we have animal sacrifice. This is why we have circumcision. This is why we have some people when they keep or fulfill a covenant, we’ll see this in the Old Testament, they cut their hair. There’s all kinds of cutting. It’s why we have the Passover with the blood. Even when Jesus says the law of animal sacrifice is fulfilled, he says there’s a new law of sacrifice.

                                           00:39:00             It’s still cutting. Think about a broken heart and a contrite spirit. It’s still a cut heart and a cut spirit. It still continues, so there’s so much symbolism here. He says, If you cut this covenant, but you’re not following the covenant, there’s justice. There’s a cutting. There’s a justice here. Of course, all of it is covered by the atonement of Jesus Christ, all of it. Although cuttings, the blood, the sacrifice, everything was meant to point to him. Always. His sacrifice, his cutting being cut, his bleeding from every pore, him being on the cross, all of those things covered all of these other cuttings, all of these other things. It’s beautiful how it just all ties together like that.

Hank Smith:                      00:39:49             They probably learned this from Jethro, do you think?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:39:53             Yeah.

Hank Smith:                      00:39:54             And he wasn’t living it.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:39:55             Yeah, he didn’t, for some reason, and we’re not sure why. He didn’t circumcise one of his sons. There are different theories like he was preoccupied with other things, like speaking to God in the fiery bush and traveling to Egypt and becoming a prophet that he kind of forgot about his most basic covenants he had already made. Sometimes we get distracted, preoccupied, and we forget our very basic foundational covenants, you know, that we’ve made, commandments and things like that.

John Bytheway:               00:40:31             Wow. I don’t know if I’m gonna teach this part to the 12 and 13 year olds when I get there. I hope it’s the other teacher that week, gospel doctrine.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:40:43             We’re not under the law of circumcision anymore.

Hank Smith:                      00:40:46             But the principle is still there that you have to live the gospel before you can teach the gospel, and that his wife helps him live the gospel. Support’s like, let me take the reins here or the knife.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:41:00             It’s fascinating because Moses could have just done it. Moses could have been like, I’m the prophet, I’m the father, I’m doing this. But it’s Zipporah who sticks in. She takes a flint. This is a flint knife. These were much more hygienic, sharper, more readily available. She uses that to circumcise her son. She steps in.

Hank Smith:                      00:41:25             It’s the same reason when they said that when they make a covenant, he says, put your hand under my thigh. The idea is like posterity.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:41:35             Yeah, but goes back to creation. You know, and this is why she calls him a bloody husband, which sounds awful or like you’re swearing or something in another country. It’s basically she’s saying, Your covenant is restored. Your covenantal relationship is restored. Through Zipporah, through the actions of this woman. And in verse 26, it says, so he let him go. This is so Jehovah let Moses go. Joseph Smith gives us that too. In the translation, he makes it very clear. Because of Zipporah’s quick thinking, quick action, she is able to basically save Moses, restore that covenantal relationship for him so he becomes, once again, a husband of the cutting, a husband of blood.

John Bytheway:               00:42:18             The footnote says there is some covenant significance in this, also verse 26, like you just said.

Hank Smith:                      00:42:25             Yeah. Mm. Krystal, so he let him go. That’s gonna be the same language they use with Pharaoh.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:42:32             Yeah. If you keep the covenant, you’ll be delivered. That’s the promise. If you don’t, then justice comes.

Hank Smith:                      00:42:39             Yeah, it’s a lesson here of live this privately and you’ll be let go. Okay. Now go do that. Same thing publicly. You’re gonna go, talk to Pharaoh, keep your covenants. Maybe the Lord really wasn’t trying to kill him, but teach him.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:42:58             Yeah. It’s justice. When we sin, we spiritually die. We’re spiritually killed when we sin. We are separated from God even more and more, and the only way to overcome that is to restore that relationship through repentance, through the Atonement. I think this is the lesson here. And I love it Zipporah is the one who steps in and helps him. Moses has all of this support, so much support as he goes through this.

Hank Smith:                      00:43:25             I think that this is an absolutely true principle. One, we have to live what we teach. There’s no power in trying to teach principles you don’t live, and two, your spouse can help you live what you teach. No one would know the intimate parts of your life like your spouse. I can say that in my life. I try to teach the gospel and I try to live what I teach, and my wonderful wife, Sara, helps me live what I teach. There’s a great story here, even though it’s a little bit told in an odd way.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:43:58             Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I love that Zipporah’s name means little bird, but she is not a little bird. I think in her mind, she’s like, I’m gonna save my husband, I’m gonna save my child, and I will do whatever it takes to help my family and step in and save them. You brought that up about spouses because I know it’s the same for me with George. We’re so different from each other that we fill in the gaps for each other. We’re puzzle pieces that he’s laid back and he’s chill and he takes giant leaps of faith so giant, I’m like scared for him. You know, and he believes it’s gonna work out and it does. And for me, I’m like, It’ll work out if I have a spreadsheet and a 20-step plan, but we work together, we balance each other out in that way. I love that Moses and Zipporah, they balance each other out too.

John Bytheway:               00:44:50             I think it was Elder Maxwell that talked about marry someone with compensating competencies.

Hank Smith:                      00:44:59              That’s good.

John Bytheway:               00:44:59             You’re strong where I’m weak and vice versa. And if your wife has a sharp flint.

Hank Smith:                      00:45:04             Moses fled.

John Bytheway:               00:45:07             And Moses fled.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:45:10             She just acts. I love it. Moses is, he’s the one who wants the instructions and confidence and she just jumps into it. Let’s do it.

Hank Smith:                      00:45:19             That’s so great. I usually say, If I’m doing something wrong, the Lord will tell me or he’ll tell my wife. That’s usually how it goes. Usually not gonna tell someone in my ward. He’s usually gonna tell me, or he’s gonna tell my wife. Something needs to change. Now he’s ready, Krystal. Man, this has been a lot of tutoring and a lot of mentoring.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:45:45             Yeah. A lot of training.

Hank Smith:                      00:45:47             Back and forth with God, yeah.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:45:50             If Moses is the best, and this is what he goes through, we gotta go through some things too, to get to where our full potential is. And we kind of think at this point, Zipporah and the kids go back. It’s time for them to go back. Baby’s just been circumcised. They need to take care of that. But Moses goes on. Aaron is told to go and meet him, and I love it. It says when they meet together, they’re so excited. It’s been 40 years since these brothers have seen each other. Maybe even Aaron is like, Is Moses dead? And Moses is like, Is Aaron still alive? They see each other, and it says they kiss. And this kiss, many times when we see this in Hebrew, it signals a restored relationship. Esau and Jacob kiss when they see each other. David and Absalom kiss when they see each other. It’s a like, We’re back together. We’re inseparable. We are gonna do this together. Almost representative again of a covenantal relationship.

Hank Smith:                      00:46:49             Moses tells Aaron, I wonder if Aaron’s like what? Can you imagine telling this story? And then he said this and I said that, and then he said, throw the serpent on the ground. Aaron’s going.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:47:02             I think Aaron’s like, last time I saw you, you had killed an Egyptian and left. Yeah. Now he’s like, You’re a prophet? What happened? What’s going on?

Hank Smith:                      00:47:15             But he believes him.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:47:16             He accepts him. He says, Let’s go. Verse 29, it says, They go to the elders and they do the signs. And in verse 31, it says, The people believed.

John Bytheway:               00:47:25             The people believe.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:47:27             Moses is probably like, Success. Finally, finally, my people believe me. They accept me. This is gonna work out great. And that takes us into chapter five. They get to Pharaoh. They do the thus saith, saying we’re gonna tell you. The Lord God of Israel says, Let my people go so that they can hold a feast, a sacrifice, worship in the wilderness. Exactly what the Lord told him to say. And Pharaoh’s answer, Who? Who’s Jehovah? You just said Jehovah. Who? Why would I obey him? I don’t know who Jehovah is. And you can imagine Moses is like, oh, no.

Hank Smith:                      00:48:12             Yeah.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:48:14             But for Pharaoh, it’s a legitimate question. He’s like, I know 2000 Egyptian gods and I just went through ’em. I don’t recognize that name, Jehovah. Who is that? But the Pharaoh is eventually gonna regret asking that because Jehovah’s like, You wanna know who I am? I will show you exactly who I am.

Hank Smith:                      00:48:39             They try to explain to him, He’s the God of the Hebrews. He met with us.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:48:43             He’s like, I just told you he’s the God of Israel. He is the God of the Hebrews. Please let us go. We need to fulfill our covenantal obligations through worship and sacrifice or justice is coming. He warns the Pharaoh. Justice is coming because if you’re keeping us from these things, pestilence, the sword, all sorts of things could happen, which Pharaoh should understand because they also believed if you didn’t keep your gods happy, they would send wars and diseases and all sorts of things. But Pharaoh’s still like, I don’t know who you’re talking about. Who is this? ‘Cause the Egyptians also believed that the Pharaoh was part divine. The Pharaoh’s probably thinking, No, no, no, I, I’m a God. Typically, throughout Egyptian history, the Pharaoh represented the God Horus on earth, and then after the Pharaoh died, he became deified fully divine. They would build temples to these kings, to these Pharaohs, and they’d go in them and worship them.

                                           00:49:44             But some Egyptian kings, and a great example of this is Ramses II, decided they wanted to be worshiped in life, so they deified themselves fully into Gods while they’re alive. Ramses liked himself so much. He built so many temples where people could worship him. He even built a temple, and there are scenes in the temple of himself worshiping himself as a God. This is how strongly they felt. He liked himself a lot. Well, I can see the Pharaoh is also like, No, no, no, no, no. There’s no God stronger than me. There’s no God stronger than the Egyptian God of Pharaoh. And that’s why he’s saying, Who is this? He has no power.

Hank Smith:                      00:50:28             And he tells him to get back to work.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:50:30             He basically accuses Moses and Aaron of trying to ask for time off for the children of Israel. He’s like, you’re just lazy, and there are so many of them. Can you imagine how that would affect our workforce? If I just let them go and take three days into the wilderness, all the sacrifices, and then three days back, that’s a week off. I’m not gonna do that. This is an excuse, he says. And so Pharaoh says, You know what? If you have so much time to ask for time off, you feel so far ahead of your work, well, we’re gonna give you some more work. We’re gonna actually double your work. He goes to the task masters, and the task masters are the Egyptians who are in charge of the work crews. In verse six, they’re officers, and the officers are actually some of the Hebrew people.

                                           00:51:21             And the word here for officer, it’s related to the word for scribe. And so these are the ones of the children of Israel who are recording what’s being accomplished in terms of the work. They’re keeping track of how many bricks are made, how many days, and he says, okay, then we’ll just tell the officers and the task masters they don’t get straw deliveries anymore. They have to go find their own straw, their own binding agents. If they have so much time to ask for a vacation we’ll give them more work to do.

Hank Smith:                      00:51:55             I’ll give you something to cry about.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:51:59             It’s in this verse eight. It says, the tail of the bricks. This is an odd translation for saying the quota. He says the quota won’t change, even though now you have to go find all your own straw, which means going to the fields, cutting the straw, chopping it up, taking it back to the brick making site, and then starting the brick making process. It doubles their time, but he says you should make the same amount. And then in verse nine, he says, maybe then they will not regard vain words saying Moses and Aaron, maybe they won’t believe Moses and Aaron anymore if we make life even worse for them. They’ll think Moses is a liar and a fraud because God told him to do this and he wasn’t successful. So how could Moses not be a liar? So he’s definitely trying to sow some discord among the people, for sure.

Hank Smith:                      00:52:57             Moses is a little like Nephi. Okay, that did not go. That did not go as planned.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:53:05             Poor Moses … I don’t know. The poor guy, he has his ups and downs and even though God told him, this isn’t gonna work. Pharaoh will never let you go. Moses seems to have forgotten that completely. So the Pharaoh ends up doing it. He says to the people in verse 10, it’s interesting so the taskmasters and the officers, they say, Thus saith Pharaoh. This is mocking Moses. Thus saith our God, Pharaoh. And they’re not able to keep up clearly and they get beaten for it. The officers end up going back to the Pharaoh and say, why are you beating us? Somebody hasn’t delivered the straw. Your people aren’t delivering the straw. And the Pharaoh says, actually, somebody came in here and asked if you could have some time off so you could go and do these sacrifices and since you have all this extra time, then we’re gonna give you extra work.

                                           00:54:00             Then they know, oh, it was Moses and Aaron who came in and what do they do? They go to confront them. Verse 20, They go to confront Aaron and Moses. They’re upset. They are really upset. They say the Lord look upon you and judge. Like that calling down judgment on them. This word savour, this is stink. He’s like, you have made us stinky in the eyes of the Pharaoh. We are the worst smell to them ever. And you can think of Moses probably being like, wait, didn’t the Lord tell me that by the time we leave, the Egyptians will have favor and give us stuff? Now, this is the opposite.

Hank Smith:                      00:54:45             Here’s the contemporary English version of verse 21. Then the men said, We hope the Lord will punish both of you for making the king and his officials hate us. Now they even have an excuse to kill us. Thanks a lot. Thanks for the help. Oh, man, that backfired.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:55:05             Now, everything’s worse, even worse than it was.

John Bytheway:               00:55:10             And that’s like 22 and 23. Moses returned to the Lord and said, Wherefore hast thou so evil entreated this people? Why is it that thou has sent me? Since I came to Pharaoh to speak in thy name he hath done evil to this people. Neither hast thou delivered thy people at all.

Hank Smith:                      00:55:28             Moses like, I told you it wouldn’t work.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:55:31             Yeah. He’s like, things are way worse than they ever were before. This word evil here is sometimes translated as breaking. It’s almost like Moses is accusing Jehovah of breaking the covenant, of not keeping the covenant. You’re not keeping up your side here. You promised all of these different things. There’s no delivery. Things are even worse than before.

Hank Smith:                      00:55:55             How many times have we felt that way?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:55:57             Yeah.

John Bytheway:               00:55:58             God just seems to wait till the last minute.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:56:02             The Lord had told him this several times this was gonna happen. It’s the same for us. God says, I want you to do this. And you’re like, Okay, I think I can do it. And he’s like, It’s gonna be really hard and awful. You might fail four times along the way. Okay, got it. And then the first time you fail, Well, what happened? You promised me this would work. I think we do the same thing. We forget sometimes.

Hank Smith:                      00:56:30             Don’t you think everybody listening can probably identify a moment in their life where they said, I did what you said. My life got worse.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:56:39             Yeah, definitely. And sometimes over and over and over, and it kind of makes you question, Did I hear it right? Am I doing what I’m supposed to? And I think that’s Satan kind of creeping in, making you doubt yourself, making you doubt what you’re hearing. I think this is why in the scriptures it says, remember, remember, remember, remember, remember because we need to remember that he warns us it’s gonna be hard. You will fail. That’s okay. Keep going.

Hank Smith:                      00:57:09             I think we could all sit in our Exodus 5:23 moments. And notice the Lord doesn’t get mad at him. He seems pretty patient with him.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:57:19             Yeah, the Lord’s like, it’s time. It is time for Pharaoh to truly learn who Jehovah is. And it’s interesting because he says, It’s sort of hard with the translation here, but the first stronghand is from Jehovah. He’ll see it’s that smiting again. The smiting is gonna be from Jehovah. The second stronghand is this idea, he’s like, Pharaoh’s gonna want you to go so badly, he’s gonna push you out with a strong hand. That’s how this is actually gonna work, and this is what he’s trying to tell Moses is gonna happen. And he says, I am Jehovah. I love it. He keeps telling him, This is who I am, this is what I do. Let me get a confusing verse in verse three. He says, Abraham Isaac Jacob, they didn’t know me by Jehovah. Once again, the commentaries go nuts over this because the name Jehovah shows up twice in Genesis.

                                           00:58:16             People are like trying to … Oh, what is this? Of course they knew the name or they didn’t know the name. They knew him by this title, but not his name. They knew the name, they didn’t know what it meant. Again, if we turn to the Joseph Smith translation, clears it up. It’s sort of like a rhetorical question. It actually says, Didn’t they know me by that name?

John Bytheway:               00:58:39             And was not my name known unto them in the footnote.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:58:42             Yeah, exactly.

John Bytheway:               00:58:43             Ends with the question mark.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:58:45             President Oaks has said, Oh, they knew the name of God. They absolutely knew. For sure. I love it. It’s cleared up again. We don’t have to fight with this. It makes sense to us.

Hank Smith:                      00:58:58             He says, I established my covenant with them. I have heard. Is this the same place, Krystal? I have heard, I have seen.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:59:07             Yeah, we get the I remember the covenant. I’ve heard, I remember. I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. This is actually the word deliver. It’s the same word we’ve been seeing. It would be helpful if it actually said delivered.

John Bytheway:               00:59:24             Yeah, the footnote says Hebrew deliver. Footnote 6C.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           00:59:29             This is the whole point. We are meant to get from this that this physical deliverance from bondage and captivity is meant to teach us about spiritual deliverance from sin and spiritual death. It’s about redemption.

John Bytheway:               00:59:47             I circled all of the I pronouns and it’s just red polka dots everywhere. The Lord’s gonna do this. He’s gonna use Moses and Aaron, but I’m gonna do it.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:00:00             Yeah, I love it. He’s like, it’s time. It’s time to get you out.

Hank Smith:                      01:00:04              Pharaoh was given a chance to use his agency. Now, what Jehovah does next is just.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:00:12             Yep.

John Bytheway:               01:00:12             Yeah. Here it comes.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:00:14             And he was warned so many times, which is what the Lord does. Moses asks, I think I counted like six times for them just to go worship, not even to let him go. Just let us go worship. He asked six times and he says, If you don’t, justice and judgment is coming. The Pharaoh’s been warned. It’s not like he had never heard this. He’s aware.

Hank Smith:                      01:00:35             Yeah. And not only does he not let him go, he makes it harder for them so they’ll never be able to worship Jehovah. You’re exactly right, Krystal. He asked the question, Who is Jehovah that I should obey his voice? Like, you’re about to find out.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:00:51             Yeah. We’re getting towards the end and it gets a little bit weird here in a minute.

Hank Smith:                      01:00:55             Okay.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:00:56             Maybe not weirder than before, but there are some beautiful verses here in seven and eight. He says, I will take you to me for a people. I love this. You are my people. I am your God. This is a covenantal relationship and this is sort of preemptive of this Mosaic covenant that they’re gonna enter into in the future. And these were things that were promised to Abraham, right? He will be your God. You will be his people. You will be together. There’s this subtext here. Jehovah’s also saying that I’m going to be your leader, your ruler, your guide, your instructor, your law giver. The Pharaoh, you are not his people. You don’t belong to the Pharaoh. You belong to me. From now on, if we can get you out and you’re gonna build that sanctuary, that tabernacle, I’m gonna give you new laws to follow.

                                           01:01:54             I’m gonna protect you. I’m gonna help you. And it’s this beautiful promise of what a covenantal relationship is. You covenant with him, you’re his people. I love in verse eight, it says that he swore that, like, God swore, and in Hebrew, this is lifted up the hand. Like, God takes an oath here. He makes a promise. It’s a binding promise. I made this promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and it’s your heritage. Then Joseph Smith tells us at the end here, it’s not, I am the Lord, but I, the Lord, will do it. I promise. When the Lord says he’s gonna do something, he does it. It’s beautiful, these verses. When we get to verse nine, it’s so sad because he goes to the children of Israel. They didn’t listen because of anguish of spirit and cruel bondage. They’ve given up hope. I don’t even think that they look at Moses and say, We don’t believe you. I think they’ve given up. They’re not sure anything good is gonna happen.

Hank Smith:                      01:02:58             Anguish of spirit.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:02:59             Yeah, and Hebrew, it’s literally shortness of breath. They can’t breathe. They’re being crushed by their burden so much that they can barely breathe. Almost like they’re barely alive. So it makes sense sometimes when we see this in their reaction. We get to points in our life too when we feel like we can’t breathe and we feel like nothing can pull us out. Nothing can deliver us and help us. This is the moment where things change. They’re at their lowest really at this point. Everything can only look up from there. I think of the enabling power of the Atonement that Elder Bednar has talked about. We focus so much on the redeeming, but the enabling power gives us the strength from God to be able to not maybe even pull ourselves out of these things, but to survive them.

John Bytheway:               01:03:50             Isn’t crushed the same as contrite?

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:03:53             It means crushed like pottery that’s been trampled and turned into dust. The broken heart is a shattered heart and the contrite spirit, it shows up in Psalms, so we can actually look at the Hebrew and learn more about the Book of Mormon. The crushed spirit means crushed into dust, and it basically means there’s no way to take that thing that’s been broken and crushed and put it back together. There’s no way any human being can take those things and put it back together. So what do we do? We give it to him. We give it to the Savior. That’s the sacrifice. We hand it to him and we say, put me back together, please. Rebuild me so I’m stronger than I was before. Here’s all my broken parts. Help me come back.

John Bytheway:               01:04:43             You’re at a point where he’s the only one who can do it.

Hank Smith:                      01:04:46             I’m sure both of you remember October 2013, Elder Hollands talk Like a Broken Vessel. Elder Holland says, the Apostle Peter wrote that the disciples of Jesus Christ are to have compassion one of another. In that spirit, I wish to speak to those who suffer from some form of mental illness or emotional disorder. He then started to talk about depression, major depressive disorder. He says it’s an affliction so severe that it significantly restricts a person’s ability to function. That sounds like verse nine. He says, This dark night of the mind and spirit is more than just discouragement. I have seen it come to an absolutely angelic man when his beloved spouse of 50 years passed away. I have seen it in new mothers with what is euphemistically labeled as after baby blues, postpartum depression. I’ve seen it strike anxious students, military veterans, and grandmothers worried about the wellbeing of their grown children, he says.

                                           01:05:54             I have seen it in young fathers trying to provide for their families. In that regard, I once terrifyingly saw it in myself. At one point in our married life, when financial fears collided with staggering fatigue, I took a psychic blow that was as unanticipated as it was real. With the grace of God and the love of my family, I kept functioning and kept, even after all these years, I continue to feel a deep sympathy for others more chronically or deeply afflicted with such gloom than I was. Then he finished. Whatever your struggle, my brothers and sisters, mental or emotional or physical or otherwise, do not vote against the preciousness of life by ending it. Trust in God, hold on in his love. Know that one day the dawn will break brightly and all shadows of mortality will flee. Though we may feel we are like a broken vessel, as the Psalmist says, We must remember that vessel is in the hands of the divine potter.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:06:59             Moses has lost some hope here too. We see that in the next verses. He says, they won’t listen to me. Why would Pharaoh listen? And then he calls himself as having uncircumcised lips, basically lips that are covered, lips that can’t perform their function, lips that are not able to speak. This is used sometimes for ears that can’t hear as well. It’s hard. They’re at this point where this is a turning, this is a change. This is where Jehovah can come in and deliver them and save them, and that’s the message here. Only through Jesus Christ can we be saved.

Hank Smith:                      01:07:39             Krystal, lead us into next week. What’s about to happen? Sounds like the tension’s built in.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:07:49             It’s funny because all of a sudden it just breaks off here and we get a long list of names.

Hank Smith:                      01:07:55             Of course.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:07:56             But this is meant to set us up. Huge things are coming. Covenants are gonna be fulfilled. Deliverance is nigh. This is meant to remind all of the people and all of us it’s happening now. It’s time. It’s happening. It’s meant to tell us there’s four generations. They trace the Levites because they are showing authority of Moses and Aaron. They’re setting up the Levite priesthood here. That’s kind of like the purpose of all of this. And then the last three verses are like, okay, now back to the story. Here’s the story. It’s just this cliffhanger. The children of Israel at their lowest. Moses is kind of at his lowest. What’s going to happen next? We know that deliverance is coming, covenantal promises are coming, and everything changes in the next few chapters.

Hank Smith:                      01:08:52             We have people who feel that anguish of spirit and cruel bondage. So if we have somebody listening, what should we say to them?

John Bytheway:               01:09:00             It’s coming. Next week on followHIM.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:09:05             Stay tuned.

John Bytheway:               01:09:07             There’s hope smiling brightly before us and we know that deliverance is nigh. But boy, the Lord waits until the last minute sometimes.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:09:17             If we go all the way back to our four themes, all of those themes can be tied into this idea of hope. Hope for the future. Our first theme was, who is Jehovah? What does he do? What does he care about? Well, clearly, we’ve been told he cares about us. He loves us. He sees you. He knows you. He hears you. He works on a different timeframe than we do. I mean, we’ve gone through six chapters of posterity and oppression. Those are our lives too. The second was covenants. Does he keep covenants? Absolutely. We see this 100%. And a huge part of that is don’t give up hope. Don’t give up. It’s coming. Those promises, those blessings, they are coming. It just might take some time. And then we have deliverance from bondage. That’s perfect. You will be delivered someday. Redemption is coming. And that last one about identity. We saw Moses struggle with all of these things. And if the only thing you take away from these chapters is that you are a child of God, you’re a child of the covenant, and you’re a disciple of Jesus Christ, that’s the foundation of everything that can keep us going and keep trying.

Hank Smith:                      01:10:31             Yeah. I love it. I hope anyone’s sitting in their Exodus chapters one through six, if you’ll just keep turning the page.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:10:42             Yeah.

Hank Smith:                      01:10:42             Hold on. The Red Sea parts.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:10:46             Yeah. The Exodus, it’s the story of our life, and we’re trying to get to the promised land. We’re trying to get back home to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. Exodus teaches us we’re gonna have ups and downs, but we’ll make it.

Hank Smith:                      01:10:59             And he sends prophets who don’t think they can be prophets.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:11:03             Yeah. He’s sending help.

Hank Smith:                      01:11:06             He sends help. I love it. Krystal, thank you so much for your time today. Just so everybody knows who’s listening out there, I get to talk to Krystal just on a one-on-one basis in the hallway, and she’s as good as you think she is.

Dr. Krystal Pierce:           01:11:19             Oh, that’s so kind. Thank you.

Hank Smith:                      01:11:22             Well, with that, we want to thank Dr. Krystal Pierce for joining us again on followHIM. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen. In every episode, we remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. We hope you’ll join us next week because we know that deliverance is nigh on followHIM. As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we’d love to gift you the digital version of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. It offers short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episodes. Visit followhim.co, that’s followhim.co to download your free copy today, and you’ll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our followHIM family. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kabwika, Sydney Smith, and Annabelle Sorensen.

President Russell M. Nelson:          01:12:25             Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Turn to him. Follow him.