John Bytheway:               00:01                   Welcome to part two with Brother Brad Wilcox, Genesis 37 to 41. I think about breaking of the law of chastity, but then what happened afterwards? This is another reason to admire Joseph. Okay, so good for Joseph, he fled, he got him out, is what it says. And because he was so awesome at keeping the law of chastity, he is immediately rewarded. No, he’s thrown into prison unjustly. Knowing your identity helps you there as well. First time I ever heard the example of a vending machine, if I do this, I get this, was from you, Brad. This idea, I’m obedient, I get a blessing, you know, push the button, out comes blessing. Imagine how irritated we would be if we put our money in a vending machine and nothing happens. People punch vending machines and grab them and… Do this when they don’t give you what you want.

                                           01:01                   Here’s what President Benson said. One of the trials of this life is that we do not usually receive immediately the full blessing for righteousness or the full cursing for wickedness. That it will come, it is certain. But ofttimes, there is a waiting period that occurs, as was the case with Job and with Joseph. He said, He’s doing the right thing knowing that eventually he’ll be blessed, but it wasn’t right away. I think that too, he had to rely on, I know who I am. I know what I’m supposed to be. I’m in prison unjustly, but maybe knowing his identity helped him through that.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              01:45                   Notice that when he’s in prison, he interprets dreams for those who are there. I mean, nobody comes to him and says, “Hey, the Pharaoh wants to see you. ” He’s just serving the people around him, trying to do what he can to help them. Sometimes all of us are waiting for some, like we said at the beginning of this program, some calling, some assignment so that we can stand up and do something. Remember, I said since I’ve been released, I found out that callings end, but covenants don’t end. And he’s there in the prison keeping his covenants. Of course, God is guiding him. Of course, God is inspiring him. Not just when he’s talking to Pharaoh, but when he’s talking to a butler, when he’s talking to a baker, when he’s talking to men who are there with hope or without hope. He is serving where he is, keeping his covenants, even when it’s not in a very visual and important way.

Hank Smith:                      02:54                   I think this is a perfect time to come back to this Oh Youth of the Noble Birthright talk. Does this mean you’re better than others? No. It does mean you’re expected to help others be better. Does your birthright mean you are chosen? Yes, but not chosen to rule. Chosen to serve. Is your birthright evidence of God’s love? Yes, but more important, it is evidence of his trust. Your whole talk could be about Joseph. It is one thing to be loved and another thing entirely to be trusted. Then you quote the strength of youth pamphlet. Your Father in heaven trusts you. He has given you great blessings, including the fullness of the gospel and ordinances and covenants that bind you to him. With those blessings come responsibility.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              03:38                   To make a difference, you have to be different. Joseph was willing to be different from the world. He didn’t just do what everybody else would have done with Potiphar’s wife. He didn’t just do what every other prisoner would have done in the prison and take advantage of the other people around him. He chooses to be different. Thus, he makes a difference.

Hank Smith:                      04:02                   In fact, Brad, what did we say the title of this lesson is? The Lord was with Joseph? Listen to Brad’s General Conference talk here. As you fulfill your responsibilities, you are never alone. This is the story of Joseph of Egypt, and it can be our story.

John Bytheway:               04:19                   It’s the story of a lot of people. I love that both Moses and Enoch had this objection to being called, but I’m slow of speech, whatever that means. And the Lord doesn’t say, “You’re the best, you’re awesome.” He just says, “I’ll be with you.” Here we are again, the same promise. I will be right there. Then there we are at the sacrament table getting that same promise. We can always have him to be with us.

Hank Smith:                      04:47                   Both of you, would you say Joseph does not regret his decision to get away from Potiphar’s wife? I don’t think you’d go to Joseph and say, “Oh, I bet you wished you did that now.” No. Look at verse 23, “Because the Lord was with him.” And Brad, that’s what you said earlier. He might be in terrible circumstances, but you’re really never in terrible circumstances when the Lord is with you.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              05:10                   And then these horrible circumstances that he’s been in are the very thing that prepare him to be able to be of service to Pharaoh, of service to all the people of Egypt and of service to his own family. I mean, good grief. It talks about how we can prepare for hardship. Well, it’s the hardships. We could turn that phrase around. Instead of preparing for hardships, we need to realize that hardships prepare us for the future. Joseph is able to say, “Look, here is how we can handle this.” Not because he has never experienced hardship, but because he has experienced hardship.

Hank Smith:                      06:00                   We’re spoiling next week’s lesson, but when he does see his brothers again, he doesn’t say, “You did this to me.”

John Bytheway:               06:07                   He is amazing when he meets his brothers again. Yeah. It’s an, “Oh, that’s bad. No, that’s good,” type of statement.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              06:15                   Yeah. Now, Hank, you said Joseph is such an incredible person because he knows who he is. John said earlier in the podcast that Joseph is a type of Christ. I mentioned it as well. And I think that’s exactly where we need to go, is to now say, “What do we see in Joseph that points us to Christ?” Because then, as we develop these attributes, some of the same attributes that Joseph had, including knowing who he was and honoring the covenants that he’d made, how does that point to Jesus Christ?

John Bytheway:               07:00                   I learned something from our friend, Tyler Griffin. He had a chart of Joseph as a son, a favored son, like Jesus condescends comes down to earth. He goes all the way down and becomes a slave or a servant like Jesus did. What happens then he, Joseph’s case, works himself up to, he’s one of the head servants, then boom, down again to a prisoner. There’s even a time when Jesus is in chains and in prison. Then, goes, Joseph works himself up to royalty and he kind of made that comparison of those roles anyway of Joseph and of Jesus. There’s other parts of being a deliverer and a savior that are easier to see.

Hank Smith:                      07:46                   I see something simple here in Genesis 39 that he did not give in to temptation and was the one punished.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              07:54                   Which is exactly what happened with Christ. Joseph was a shepherd. Christ is a shepherd. Joseph was sold for pieces of silver. Christ was sold for pieces of silver. You just see so many connections that you definitely see that through this story, God isn’t just saying, “I want you to be like this role model.” But he’s saying, “This man is a role model because he is so much like Christ.” That’s who we need to be trying to become more like is Jesus Christ. That’s who can empower us in this journey.

Hank Smith:                      08:43                   And hopefully this isn’t a spoiler. Most people know how this story ends, but he ends up forgiving the people who put him in this situation. In fact, he says it was God who sent me here, not you, to save your lives.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              09:00                   Dreams that had made the brothers and even his father so upset are actually realized every one of them.

John Bytheway:               09:09                   There’s even some more, like, really detailed ones. Joseph was sold at 17 years old, but he was 30 years old when he began serving with Pharaoh. It was just like Jesus began his ministry at 30 years old.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              09:25                   I’ve never thought of that one, John.

John Bytheway:               09:27                   The thing that it reminds me of Hank is our very first episode where the emphasis the manual gave was to look for types of Christ, and it gave us a few to look at. Lamb of God, manna, Moses, a serpent, the sign of Jonah, but there’s more. Joseph is another type of Christ. And as we go through the Old Testament, look for types and shadows of Christ.

Hank Smith:                      09:49                   Let’s talk about persevering through painful experiences because we all know how this story ends. We know the songs. And we’re saying to him, “Oh, don’t worry. Chapter 47 is coming. It’s gonna work out great for you.” But he doesn’t know that. How do you maintain that perspective when you’re laying in your Egyptian bunk going, nothing ever goes right for me. Are you sure? Like, there’s gotta be moments of, am I doing something wrong? I know a lot of Latter-day Saint youth, probably non-youth who, the moment something really bad happens, they, “What did I do wrong?” In your experiences, how do you get through great, great difficulty when you really are trying to do the right thing?

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              10:37                   I think a lot of it has to do with keeping that big picture in mind, keeping the plan of salvation in mind, because as we see that bigger picture, then we’re able to start making sense of some of the things that are happening to us. Faith is not just knowing that God can do something. Faith is knowing why sometimes he doesn’t. That why comes as we look at that bigger plan, because then we’re able to start saying, “Okay, this isn’t exactly what I was expecting. This isn’t what I was thinking. This isn’t what I wanted.” But because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, I can be educated because of these horrific experiences instead of defeated by them or condemned by them. That’s what gives us this chance. We’ve talked about knowing who you are. We also need to talk about knowing whose you are.

                                           11:51                   With God, we’ve got his help, but then when suddenly we don’t feel like God is helping us, when we’ve prayed and prayed and prayed for that answer or that blessing and his timing is just not what we are expecting, then I think we can fall back. In April of 22, President Oaks gave a talk in General Conference and said, “People will never understand our doctrine and our policies until they understand the plan of salvation.” Elder Renlund said in April of 22, Without the plan of salvation, we will always be perpetually children. See, we’ll always be the kid who thinks God is Santa Claus. And then why didn’t he give me this? Because I’ve been nice. I haven’t been naughty. And why didn’t he give me this? Why didn’t he fulfill his part of the bargain? And then we’re gonna throw a temper tantrum like a child does because we didn’t get what we wanted when we wanted it.

                                           12:57                   If we know the plan of salvation, then suddenly we can grow up. We can grow up spiritually and we can say, there is purpose in this. I may not see it right now, but there is purpose in this. And in the end, this can work for my benefit. The only sin, the only trial, the only thing that God through the power of Christ’s Atonement cannot turn for our good is the sin of Satan. If we choose to rebel, sin at its core, then we make it impossible because we’ve used our agency to turn away from God. Because we’ve used our agency in that way, then he cannot be with us. Not because he’s turned his back on us or he’s punishing us, but because we’ve turned our back on him. If we will just stay with him and know him well enough to trust him, then we can see that in the long run, truly, all things can work together for our good. But that takes a big picture.

John Bytheway:               14:30                   What the plan of salvation does is take off the blinders and let us know this is temporary. Thy suffering and thine afflictions will be but a, what was Joseph told? Small moment. Take off the blinders and you’ll see there’s that waiting period that occurs. When the vending machine doesn’t work, you get mad. But in the context of trying to do the right thing and not seeing the blessing, that’s when we trust in the Lord. That’s the phrase. We might have to trust for a long time. Joseph Smith and others know all about. Crying out in Liberty Jail, why is this happening? Thy suffering, thy afflictions will be a small moment. Take off the blinders, you’ll be exalted on high. Easy to say, hard to do.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              15:18                   Yeah. If we go to that Proverbs 3:5, “Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways, acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in your own eyes. Fear the Lord and depart from evil. It shall be health to thy navel and marrow to thy bones. Despise not the chastening of the Lord. Neither be weary in his correction. Whom the Lord loveth, the Lord correcteth. Even as a father, the child in whom he delighteth. These are the scriptures right there that tell us that we can trust even when we can’t quite understand why this happened or why God let it happen or why somebody else’s agency let it happen or why mortality let it happen. We can trust. That’s a beautiful promise.

Hank Smith:                      16:30                   Do you remember when President Monson talked about a woman right after World War II? She was living in East Prussia. Then the World War changed everything. Her young husband was killed, leaving her alone to care for four children. She then has to travel on foot with her four children over a thousand miles. They didn’t have food or money. She was forced to gather a daily sustenance from the fields and the forests along the way. Weeks turned into months, the temperatures dropped. Her smallest child, a baby in her arms, her three other children struggled along behind her, with the oldest seven years old. Then the snows came, then the unthinkable. She felt a chill in her heart. The tiny form of her three-year-old daughter was cold and still. Though overwhelmed with grief, she knew she had to take the other children and travel on. First, however, she used the only implement she had, a tablespoon to dig a grave in the frozen ground for her precious child.

                                           17:44                   Death was to be her companion again and again. She lost her seven-year-old. She lost her five-year-old. Then she loses her last child, her baby. And at that last death, you guys, the spoon was gone. Hour after hour, she dug a grave in the frozen earth with her bare fingers. She had lost her husband and all her children. In this moment of overwhelming sorrow, she felt her heart would literally break. In despair, she contemplated how she might end her own life. And then, something within her said, “Get down on your knees and pray.” She knelt and prayed more fervently than she had in her entire life. “Dear Heavenly Father, I do not know how I can go on. I have nothing left, except my faith in thee. I feel Father, amidst the desolation of my soul an overwhelming gratitude for the atoning sacrifice of thy son, Jesus Christ.

                                           18:56                   I cannot express adequately my love for him. I know that because he suffered and died, I shall live again with my family, that because he broke the chains of death, I shall see my children again and will have the joy of raising them. Though I do not at this moment wish to live. I will do so. That we may be reunited as a family and return together to thee. She finally reaches her destination in Germany. She was emaciated. Her face was purple gray. Her eyes red and swollen. Her joints protruding. She was in the advanced stages of starvation. In a church meeting, shortly thereafter, she bore a glorious testimony.

John Bytheway:               19:39                   Amazing.

Hank Smith:                      19:40                   Incredible. The perseverance you can muster when you are yoked with the Lord.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              19:47                   Amen.

John Bytheway:               19:48                   We like to talk about how so much of the gospel makes sense. Sometimes because so many things do make sense, we want everything to make sense. And make sense right now. If I could add to the Book of Abraham, I don’t think I’m allowed to do that, but … And I will prove them herewith to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them, even when it doesn’t make sense. That’s what I wanna add. That was Father Adam. Why are you offering sacrifices? I don’t know. I think there will come a day when things make better sense. We hear the Savior say, “He doeth not anything save it be for the benefit of the world.” If we really know he loves us, we know there’s … Something is coming that will help us make sense.

Hank Smith:                      20:38                   Brad, in your Book of Mormon classes, when we talk about the Fall, the Fall doesn’t necessarily explain why I go through everything I go through, but it does give me some answers. It does give me a place to say, “Well, this was part of coming here.”

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              20:54                   Now, this is a school, and schools can be hard, and tests can be hard, but they’re going to help us. I can fight through darkness knowing that redemption comes. And that there is purpose in this. It’s not just wasted experience. There is purpose in this.

Hank Smith:                      21:18                   Brad, John, what about when it’s someone else’s agency that hurt me? There’s one thing to be said of, well, this happened and it happens to everyone, right? Difficulty happens to everyone, but then you have moments where it’s just infuriating unfairness where someone else’s agency took almost everything from me. We’ve seen this in marriages. We’ve seen this in abuse.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              21:46                   His brother’s agency leaves him in a pit, sold as a slave.

Hank Smith:                      21:54                   Those are the most heartbreaking times. These are people who are supposed to love you. This is your family, and yet it’s the complete opposite. That betrayal. I wonder if there’s a therapist in Egypt who can help Joseph deal with this kind of betrayal. Let’s speak to that for just a minute, if you would. So many of the pains and trials and difficulties that we face in this life are the result of other people’s agency. I know I have hurt people. With my agency, we’ve all been on both sides of this. Oh, it is so heartbreaking when someone steals so much from your life.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              22:37                   Elder Neal A. Maxwell used to always explain that sometimes our trials and challenges are because of our own choices, sometimes because of the poor choices of others, and sometimes just because of mortality. But he would always say, no matter the reason, God can still make those into something that can be positive for us in our lives. Now, that’s a lot to grab onto, especially when you’re hurting. But listen to what else Elder Maxwell said. Why do bad things happen to good people? Maybe it’s because good people are the most ready to learn.

Hank Smith:                      23:26                   Brad, I think you’re right on there. It can be so infuriating if we think God can’t do anything with this unfairness. You were supposed to love me. You threw a wrench in my whole life. I have to believe, I have to know that God can consecrate my affliction for my gain. How often does someone get to hurt me? Think about Joseph. Here’s my family who’s supposed to love me that betrays me. I work my way back into some sort of success, and it gets stolen again. At that point, I think I would be in my Egyptian prison going, the only real answer for this is that God hates me. That’s gotta be the only explanation, because every time something good is happening, you allow someone to come and take it away from me. Brad, you said, why do bad things happen to good people? It’s like, well, why do good things happen to bad people? Right? How come they don’t get in trouble? How come they seemingly get away with harming me?

John Bytheway:               24:29                   You have probably both have had parents say to you, this agency thing is really painful, actually. Watching my kids make choices, or as you’ve talked about, other people that make choices that hurt you, and the more I study the scriptures, the more I think the Lord’s probably going, yeah, tell me about it. We just saw the vision of Enoch. How is it that thou canst weep and what was he weeping about? I created them, I gave them their agency, and they’re without affection. They hate their own blood, and he’s weeping. In that space, we are like God who’s also weeping at people who are misusing their agency. He has power to make things right eventually. And I think about Elder Renlund‘s saying that he doesn’t want people to keep the commandments. He wants them to choose to keep the commandments. There has to be agency so that we can make that choice. We will have some pain in life because of other people’s using or not using very well their agency. God knows all about that as well.

Hank Smith:                      25:44                   A member of our team, you hear her at the end of every episode, her name is Lisa Spice. Anyone who’s been a guest on followHIM in Brad’s place loves Lisa Spice. A lot of people don’t know, and I don’t need to go into a lot of detail, but Lisa had infuriating unfairness happen to her for a long time. I asked her, I said, Lisa, what do we do? What do we say when, when you experience that kind of unfairness? She said, I don’t know. You’ve trusted before and you’ve experienced miracles before, so you keep walking. It’s okay that it’s a difficult walk. It’s full of darkness and doubt. You keep walking. I had blessings that told me ancestors on the other side were helping me. Sometimes I couldn’t feel it, but I trusted. I had a blessing that told me it would help me in a small part understand the Savior, and the betrayal and the suffering he experienced, and it felt like a privilege to be like him. I used to think God didn’t mind us being uncomfortable, but didn’t want us to suffer, but now I think suffering is part of the plan. It is what makes us more Christ-like, and that’s what matters. Keep walking, she said. Keep walking.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              27:07                   Love it. When Debbie and I had the chance to be mission leaders 20 years ago, it was when Elder Holland was overseeing the work in Chile. We got to spend part of our mission working directly with him, and it was amazing to watch how he dealt with some really serious problems, some real serious issues and a lot of real serious pain. He was able to do that so well and with so much love and with so much compassion. One time he came and he spoke to our mission, he did a little Q&A. I’ll never forget when one of the missionaries who was going through some hard times, I knew about the hard times because I was his mission president. I knew about the hurt that he was feeling because family members were making choices that were breaking his heart. I knew about some of the personal challenges that he was facing.

                                           28:19                   I knew about some of the rejection he’d faced and some of the things that people had said about him behind his back that weren’t true. I knew all of the pain that he was expressing in his question to Elder Holland, and he said, Why does it have to be so hard? I can’t even get one foot in front of the other. I can’t even deal with one issue before another one knocks me down. I can’t even share the gospel with one person before he rejects it. Why does it have to be so hard? Elder Holland said to him something that he said later when he spoke to missionaries in the MTC, but I heard him say it to my missionary. He said, How can we expect it to be easy for us when it was never easy for Christ? The reason we’ve been saying that Joseph stands as a type of Christ is because of all the suffering that Joseph went through.

                                           29:42                   Talk about undeserved suffering. How can we expect to be his disciples? How can we expect to claim to represent him if we haven’t taken a few steps toward Gethsemane. If we haven’t taken a few steps toward Calvary, if we haven’t wept at a tomb, how can we expect it to be easy for us when it was never easy for him? Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil for thou art with me, thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. Yeah, sometimes he’s not gonna lead us through the green pastures. Sometimes he’s not gonna take us to still waters because green pastures and still waters are not always going to be the thing that can teach us and help us the most, but he will be with us. And if he can do what was so hard and so unfair, then he can help us do it too. Where he leads us, we can safely go.

Hank Smith:                      31:16                   That’s a beautiful thought. Brad, I think Elder Renlund could be your mission companion in this lesson. His talk, Infuriating Unfairness April of 2021. The title of this lesson could be Infuriating Unfairness. That’s just not fair. He says, “When faced with unfairness, we can push ourselves away from God or we can be drawn toward him for help and support. Do not let unfairness harden you or corrode your faith in God. Instead, ask God for help. Rather than becoming bitter, let him help you become better. Allow him to help you persevere, to let your afflictions, like you said, Brad, this is real, these aren’t easy things, to let your afflictions be swallowed up in the joy of Christ. He understands unfairness. The marks in the palms of his hands remind him of you and your circumstances. Your faith in Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will be rewarded more than you can imagine. All unfairness, especially infuriating unfairness, will be consecrated for your gain.

John Bytheway:               32:38                   I’ve had times where the only person who knew my heart was God. That’s all I had. That was enough. Even if it was a church member, a well-meaning church member, or maybe somebody who wasn’t well-meaning, God saw the whole thing. If that’s the only thing you’ve got to hang onto is that God knows, that’s a pretty good thing to hang onto, is that God knows what happened.

Hank Smith:                      33:07                   I think of our listeners out there who are thinking, this is me. This is my life. I was trying to do the right thing. Yes, I wasn’t perfect, but I was trying to do the right thing. These people came and stole my life, or this person came and destroyed my life, and they’ve seemingly made out fine. I’m here in some sort of metaphorical prison.

John Bytheway:               33:31                   Job’s friends at first just came and sat with him, and that was perfect. And then they opened their mouths and everything went south. But for the first couple of days, they sat with them. As soon as you start telling people, well, maybe God needed them more than you did, or maybe you can love someone else’s child, or just, don’t even go there. Just sit with people. It’s okay to be uncomfortable for a while. I hope people notice it. That you brought up 23rd Psalm, thou art with me. That was the title of the lesson. The Lord was with Joseph.

Hank Smith:                      34:08                   Brad, will you speak to those who are suffering? I’ve seen you do this personally. You’ve done this with me. We have people listening who are suffering. John, what did you say? It’s easier said than done. You wanna believe this. Your chapter 46, 47, 48, 50 is coming. Yet, here you are back in chapter 37, 38, 39, and you can’t see that. Brad, you’re such a gentle, good soul. I’ve known you for almost 20 years. If you could talk to an individual who is suffering, what would you say?

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              34:47                   First of all, just cry with you. Because of the plan of salvation, we have answers. We have explanations. But sometimes when you’re hurting, you don’t need the explanations. You don’t need the answers. Not right then. I think that we just need somebody who’s just willing to cry with us. Isn’t it beautiful when Mary and Martha have lost their brother and Jesus comes? Jesus weeps because they’re weeping. He is sad because Mary is sad. He knows that just in a minute, he’s gonna raise Lazarus from the dead. He knows that they’re gonna be the happiest pair of sisters in the universe. But he still takes time to validate their heartache, to just be able to say, I know this is hard. I recognize that what you’re going through is not easy. But hang in there. If we learned anything from our dear Elder Holland, it’s whether the blessings come now or whether they come later, they will come. They might not come until long into the eternities, but they will come. So hang in there and hang on. Don’t give in. Don’t give up.

                                           36:26                   I think of times in my own life when I’ve been hurting and I’m grateful for friends who have been true friends and wept with me and blessed me, given me blessings, not blessings that I requested, blessings that they offered. I’ve been grateful for friends who are willing to say, Brad, hang in there. You’ve got this because Jesus Christ has got you. Sometimes when we’re hurting, that’s all we need. We don’t need a lecture. We don’t need the right answer or the way we should feel. What we need is somebody who just shows up at your door with a puzzle and says, do you need a blessing? Somebody who’ll be willing to hug you and cry with you. One thing that sets us apart in our understanding of God is that we believe in a God who has a body, parts, and passions. We believe in a God who weeps and he weeps with us. When I spoke in General Conference, I said to the youth, you’ve got this because Jesus Christ has got you. When we think of the temple, when we think of how Jesus, when we are in a covenant relationship, will literally hold our hand tighter and tighter, closer and closer until he literally holds us in a clasp. Then we start understanding that in this covenant relationship, we can go on because we are not alone. He literally has got us.

Hank Smith:                      38:50                   Brad, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for joining us. The followHIM team loves Dr. Brad Wilcox.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              38:58                   And Brad Wilcox loves you so much. Thank you.

Hank Smith:                      39:03                   With that, we want to thank Dr. Brad Wilcox for joining us today. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, and every episode we remember our founder. He loved you, Brad, Steve Sorensen.

Dr. Brad Wilcox:              39:21                   What a great man.

Hank Smith:                      39:23                   Great soul, all the way through. We hope you’ll join us next week. We’re going to follow the story of Joseph of Egypt even further on followHIM. As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we’d love to gift you the digital version of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament. It offers short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episodes. Visit followhim.co, that’s followhim.co to download your free copy today, and you’ll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our followHIM family. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Krystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kabwika, Sydney Smith, and Annabelle Sorensen.